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A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.
Welcome to Chapter and Verse, where people
come on and tell their real stories,
faith, failure, redemption, and the
occasional, "Lord, what are you doing?"
moment.
Some inspiring, some messy,
and some that probably should
have come with a warning label.
Because through every chapter of
every story, God is still writing.
And He's not afraid of a little chaos.
This is Jill.
And Carrie.
Let's turn the page.
. Okay, everybody, welcome back toâ¦
This is gonna be our number
two jerks of the Bible.
Um, and we- We got another jerk, y'all.
Yeah.
I mean, we've, uh, we've got several
ideas, but since I picked the
first one kind of, Jill's picked
the second one, so this is her
pick, and we're gonna talk- Listen
all about him.
It might be a hot take.
But he's very- You know ⦠I mean, he's
a very interesting- He's an interesting
figure- Figure ⦠in the Bible.
He is.
Um, we're gonna be talking about Peter.
Yes.
Definitely- "But Peter was the rock.
We can't talk bad about Peter."
Listen, Peter was real.
Peter had flaws.
Yes.
Peter came across, I'm certain, as a jerk.
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like, um, that
just makes him more relatable.
Like, the first jerks of the Bible, I feel
like we were a little harder on Jonah.
This one, it, I feel- I feel
like he's more of a lovable jerk.
Yeah.
He, I don't know that he has, likeâ¦
'Cause Jonah at the end of it was
still, like, pouty McPouterson- Mm-hmm
and was- Yeah ⦠still being a, a punk.
But Peter- Peter got the Holy Ghost, so.
Peter shows some growth.
Yeah.
Yeah, you do when you- Like- ⦠when one-
Exactly, when one receives the Holy Ghost.
You do.
So- There's some growth ⦠Jonah
didn't have that, uh, benefit.
Nope.
But- So- Okay, let's just jump in, Jill.
What do you wanna- All right
talk about first about him?
Well, let's, let's give a little
background, 'cause, you know, we
don't wanna assume Bible literacy.
Um, Peter was a disciple.
He was a fisherman
called directly by Jesus.
Jesus laid- Yeah ⦠found him,
said, "Hey," you know, he's-
Yes ⦠"Come ye fishers of men."
Yes.
Um- So he was a little Jewish man.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and from what I'm understanding,
all of the parents back then
probably had aspirations of their
sons being- Rabbi ⦠a rabbi.
Mm-hmm.
So all of the kids went to, especially
boys, I'm not sure if the girls did.
I feel like they did to a certain
point, and then they- Right, and
then- ⦠pulled out and then- Mm-hmm
not to be a rabbi, but
just went to school.
But, um, you know, went to school
to study the law and hopefully
become a rabbi, the boys.
And, um, as soon as they could see, well,
this is not, this is not going, this is,
he's not gonna make it and he's notâ¦
No one's asking him to be an apprentice.
Right.
Like, no rabbi's taking
him under his wing.
So once you realize that at
probably age, I would say
15-ish- Yeah ⦠what I've read.
Yeah.
Um, you, you found another trade.
Yeah.
You start looking for-
Yeah ⦠a way to make a living.
Yes.
So- He went into fishing So he did His
brother He became a little fisherman.
Um- So that's, that's where we meet him,
first of all, that he's fishing We do.
Mm-hmm.
He, Peter is ⦠I don't, I don't
think anybody is going to be
surprised, if they know anything at
all about Peter, like, to describe
him as bold is a nice way to put it.
Mm-hmm.
Um, loud.
Impetuous.
Impetuous, impulsive, uh, arrogant.
Yeah.
Um- I'd say so.
Yeah.
Like, I ⦠These, these are not
necessarily great characteristics.
Yeah.
Which is w- leaning into the jerk
aspect of- Yeah ⦠the personality.
Um, he- And, like, I think, you know, when
we f- when Jesus first comes on the scene
with Peter and he's asking him to follow
him, I think the way it's worded catches
Peter's attention and, you know- Right,
'cause it's worded the way a rabbi- Mm-hmm
would've said, "Hey,
come, come be my student."
Like- Yeah ⦠you know what I mean?
And, uh- "Follow me."
Yeah.
I think Jesus was dressed as a rabbi.
Yeah.
'Cause they wore certain types of
clothing, so they were like, "Oh."
And there's a reason everybody-
"Gettin' my second chance."
Yeah, everybody called him rabbi.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Did you know that-
Um, I was reading, I don't even know what.
But I was reading in, in, the
one who never called him Lord.
Jes- Judas?
Yeah.
He just called him Rabbi.
Interesting.
So.
I had not put that together.
Yeah.
But- Anyway ⦠just a side note.
That trash.
Another jerk.
Mm-hmm.
But we'll talk about him later.
Yeah.
I don'tâ¦
Judas might be a real hard,
like, a harder one than Jonah.
No, definitely.
Like- 'Cause it definitely- Mm.
Definitely didn't end well for him.
Yeah.
But we're on Peter now, so.
Anyway, yeah, Peter.
Go ahead.
Um, so, uh, Peterâ¦
Peter was, he is something else.
Peter, I, uh, you can, you can
check me on this, but I'm pretty
sure Peter is the only disciple who
more than once contradicted Jesus.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
Like- I mean, you could say- I
mean- ⦠Thomas was kind of-
Thomas didn't contradict him.
No, he didn't.
Thomas just asked questions.
Yeah.
Thomas had some doubt.
But Peter straight up was like, "Nuh-uh."
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Let's hear some examples.
So first nuh-uh moment
of- Mm-mm ⦠Peter.
Mm-mm.
"I don't think that's right," um,
is after Peter, like, justifi-
like, understandably, correctly,
is like, "Yes, you are Lord.
You are the Messiah.
Yep."
Mm-hmm.
And Jesus goes on to tell him, "Hey, so
with that, there's gonna be suffering.
I'm gonna die."
You know.
Like- Mm-hmm ⦠Peter then just
busts out with, "No, you're not."
Like, "That's wrong.
That can't happen."
You know what I mean?
Like, he's just like, "Uh-uh."
And then Jesus has to tell him,
like, "Get behind me, Satan."
Like- They didn't
see- ⦠Peter's the one.
The, he saidâ¦
The T-shirts of, "Get behind me, Satan.
Not today, Satan," that
was because of Peter.
You're welcome, y'all.
But, and you know, like, he probably
viewed Jesus setting up his kingdom
as Jesus actually putting- Ruling
⦠yes, ruling- Yes ⦠here then.
Well, I mean, they didn't really
have anything to go with it.
And so he's like, "No, that'sâ¦"
It's always pointing to, like, we have
our imagination and plan of what we think
God's up to, but he's like, "Nuh-uh."
Yeah.
That, like- You're not
thinking big enough.
You, itâ¦
Yes.
You are not thinking big enough.
You, you are missing the plot.
Yeah.
Y'all.
You know, like, oh, isn't it cute
how you think this is gonna go?
Bless your hearts.
Aw.
No, that's not how it goes.
Um, so i- he's, it, this
showcases his jerk-like behavior.
Like, he literally tells the
Son of God- what God's plan is.
Like, he's like, "I know you
think this- "No, let me tell you."
⦠but really, no, this is
what's gonna happen."
Yeah.
Um, that's just, that's bananas.
Okay.
Um, another, another aspect
would be when he wants a little
bit of special treatment on the-
Mount of Transfiguration.
He's like- Yeah ⦠"Hey, let's
build shelters," and they're
like, "Dude, you don't know."
"Let's set it up right here."
"You don't know what
you're talking about."
Like, respectfully, Peter,
take a seat, you know?
Like, I just, oh, Peter.
He just isâ¦
Again, it's impetuous.
It's impetuous and it's arrogance
to be like, "Oh, I totally get it.
Let's roll."
Yeah.
Like, he just wants everything
to happen right then.
Mm-hmm.
And just- Can you imagine being
friends with that type of person?
Like, "Yeah, let's go!"
You know, and you're like, "Okay.
We're gonna get in trouble
if we do it your way."
Yeah.
You know?
Right.
Well, and you're in the middle
of seeing Jesus be transfigured-
and you bust out with, "Let's do it now."
Like, what?
Yeah.
What do you mean?
Like, enjoy the moment, Peter.
This is, this is a sacred moment.
What are youâ¦
Why is your mouth open, man?
Like- Just be quiet.
Right?
And you know the other ones are
like- Slapping their forehead.
Yes, a collective head smack or,
like, just the largest eye roll.
'Cause I feel like at this point
they've been around- Especially John.
Yes.
'Cause you know they had beef.
They're, they're competition.
They, they were little rivals.
Not bad beef- Yeah ⦠just like,
one of us is gonna be better.
Um- Like how we do in Duolingo.
Yes.
Have you done your, have
you done your daily reading?
I did mine at 12:02 this morning.
Oh, well you beat me.
So, I did.
That's good.
I was in the top 1% of people doing it.
Just because I was still awake,
'cause Ben's gone and I can't sleep.
But anyway, so, um, it says that, uh,
in Mark, it, it, he says, quote, "Peter
did not know what he was saying."
Like, that's literally what it says.
Ah.
Cracks me up.
Um, Peter, Peter has a tendencyâ¦
Okay, we all, we talk about this
in, you know, the, the Easter play,
the Passion play, um, where Peter
says, you know, Jesus is like,
"All of you are gonna fall away."
And then Peter busts out with-
Contradiction again ⦠even,
even if everybody does, I won't.
I'm not going to.
I'm not gonna.
And Jesus has to tell him again.
Like, y- y- "Here you are."
"Do you not think that I'm
telling you the truth?"
Like, man.
And then literally hours later, this
man denies that he even knows him.
Like, "Nuh-uh."
Doesn't know him.
"Don't know that guy.
Never, never seen that guy before."
Like- Three times.
Three times.
I- Yeah.
Can you imagine how he felt when
that rooster crowed like- I mean..
.. "Well, I was wrong again."
Right?
Like, uh- Yeah ⦠the, here's
the thing, I feel like he knew
the second they asked him, 'cause
he made the decision to be like-
Yeah ⦠"Nope, didn't, didn't know him."
You know in that moment when he
was like, "Well, he said I was
gonna do it, I'm gonna do it."
I can't stop myself now.
You know what I mean?
Like, can't stopâ¦
I g- "Well, guess he was right,
but here we go, I'm doing it."
That just, that, that just proves
that when God says something,
nobody can- Exactly ⦠escape it.
'Cause I mean, I guess, I guess kind of
a, kind of a redeeming quality maybe.
Except it's impossible to make God a
liar, so He didn't really have the option.
But at that point, you know, if it
would've been possible, and if he
was, like, a literal, like, evil
jerk, then he could've tried to, like,
prove Jesus wrong in that moment.
Yeah.
You know?
But he didn't.
He knew.
Mm-hmm.
He was like, "Oh, yep.
Here it is."
Can't stop myself.
"Here it is.
I'm gonna do it."
Um- So he im- he implies that he's, you
know, better than the other disciples
Mm-hmm Like, even if everybody else
does what you're saying that they're
gonna do, I'm not gonna be the one.
I'm not gonna do it.
That is a jerky move.
It is a jerky move.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, um, can we talk about the fact
that out, out of all of the disciples,
all of the people, who threw hands?
Yeah.
Peter.
And I was- Chopped dude's ear off.
Yeah, and I was, um, listening
to someone talk about him now.
They said they think his
intent, of course, was to go
for the head, like- Oh, 100%.
You know he was not like, "Let me just
slice this ear off and, and be like- Yeah
⦠now do you really wanna take my guy?"
But dude was a fisherman.
He wasn't a f-
He was casting the wrong
kinda- He wa- ⦠weapon right
there ⦠he wasn't a soldier.
Yeah.
He was a fisherman.
But yeah.
Like, he's gonna slice his ear off.
Right.
Yeah.
I- just or, or on the flip side,
he was trying to slice off a
soldier's ear, so a soldier who is
well-versed in fighting and stuff.
Yeah.
So you know, like, even if, even if Peter
was, like, maybe, like, the fighter,
the warrior- Mm-hmm ⦠of their little
crew, like, if anybody's gonna have to
be the one to defend, it would be Peter.
Okay, cool.
Let's, let's just- Yeah ⦠for the sake
of argument be like, all right, that was
a role that he played in, in the group.
So- He, he did do this.
Let's say that he was a,
um, an adept fighter, right?
Mm-hmm.
This guy swerves.
He manages to cut off an
ear, but he's stillâ¦
Like, Jesus rebukes Peter with this, too.
Yeah.
And is like, "What are you doing?"
And if he wouldn't have stopped him at
that point, what else would he have done?
Exactly.
'Cause you know that that guy must
have gone down at, you know, like
grabbed his ear, and like grabbed
where his ear was and, like, fell.
I would have.
I mean, oar.
And he probably wasn't done hurting him.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, he probably wasn't done hurting him,
but then also, you know, he wasn't alone.
That was not the only soldier there.
So Peter put everyone in danger- Mm-hmm
⦠by, by doing this, every single person.
He didn't think.
He was impetuous.
Yeah.
But sometimes those qualities can be good.
Like, he was the one- Yeah
that's, "Let me out of this boat."
Yeah.
"It's stormy.
I don't care.
Let me out."
Yeah, like, "I wanna be where you are.
Done."
Yeah.
You know?
And, you know, he gives a hard
time, but he is the only one
that- Mm-hmm ⦠stepped out.
He is.
Uh, we give him a hard time
'cause he starts to look down.
Yeah.
He starts to look at the circumstance.
Like you wouldn't.
Like, like none of the rest of
you even got out of the boat.
That was the otherâ¦
I know we made mention of, you know,
the cruise before that we've been on.
Mm-hmm.
But that there was two stories
that crossed my mind, the Jonah-
Mm-hmm ⦠and then this one where
he was stepping out of the boat.
Like, 'cause I was looking at those
waves and thinking of their little boat.
I always pictured a littleâ¦
It might not have been a little boat,
but smaller than what we were on.
For sure.
And I was like, how could
you step out in this?
Just w- toward Jesus, like I don't
think- Yeah ⦠I could do it.
Yeah.
But he did it, and that
was, I think, very brave.
But yeah, of course he's looking at
the waves, 'cause they're so tall.
Well, and he's walking on water.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
First he's like, "Yes."
And then he's like, "Oh."
He's like, "Ho, what am I doing?"
"What?
How does this work?"
Yeah.
"How is this happening?"
Anyway, so, um, he
chops off the guy's ear.
Mm-hmm.
Jesus has to set him straight
again and fix an ear.
You making Jesus work.
Exactly.
Jesus is like, "My goodness, I- I've
got a j- I've got a role to play.
Can you please justâ¦"
It's like when, when we talked
about how Mary came to Jesus and was
like, "Listen, they ran out of wine.
I'm gonna need for you to just-" "They're
gonna do whatever you tell them to do,
but you just tell them what to do."
And he's like, "Lady,
it is not my time yet."
And she's like, "I mean,
I know, but just go ahead.
They need the wine."
It's like, he's like, "I've got
this other thing I've got to do.
Notâ¦
Like, this is not an easy task for me.
I was literally just p- just praying,
like, can this not be what I have to do?"
Mm-hmm.
"And now, not only do I have to
go do this thing that's gonna
be incredibly difficult, and
now I have to heal a head too."
Like, not that it was hard.
Not that it was d- well, I mean, like, I-
I think the crucifixion was hard for him.
Well, I mean, that- It was
sacrificing ⦠you know, that was
probably a, a great thing that happens
because it showed the very people
that he's, that are taking him away,
he's gonna stop and care for them too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, he shouldn't have.
But still, it's just like, "This is the
last thing I need right now, Peter."
I don't need you acting up, Peter.
Exactly.
Peter.
Like, the, I'm not in the head space
to handle this right now, thank you.
But he did it.
But he did it.
Um, and then of course, there's
the denying three times.
But, um, let's, let's circle back to that,
'cause I know that there's some stuff that
you wanted- Mm-hmm ⦠to say about that.
So, um, we have the part where
Peter, um, Jesus, you know, he's
wanting to, he's, he's showcasing
that he's a servant and, you know,
like, he's washing everybody's feet.
Yeah.
He's washing his disciples' feet.
The Last Supper.
And this isâ¦
Yeah.
It's at the Last Supper.
This is, like, a, a super powerful moment.
Um, I don't know if any of
y'all have had your feet washed,
like, done a feet washing thing.
I have not.
Have you?
I have been involved in one.
Did someone wash your
feet or you washed theirs?
Someone washed my feet, and I did
not expect for it to be an emotional
thing because, you know, I live
in the 21st cent- like, I, I'm,
I'm, like, I'm in, I'm in shoes.
Like, this is not the same thing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I was wrong.
It was very emotional.
Really?
I never wanna do it again.
How come?
Why was it emotional?
Yeah, just to- I mean, I don't know.
Who did it?
Annoying.
Um, it was at a church called
The Church of Today in Pea Ridge.
It was the church that Ben and I first
started going to when we were married.
Umâ¦
And who did it?
Just a leader orâ¦
Uh, it was the worship
leader- Wow ⦠at the time.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I don'tâ¦
First of all, I don't want, I don't-
And she was bawling her head off,
too, and I was just like, "All right."
I don't want it, it to happen just
'cause, uh- Feet ⦠yeah, it's, yeah.
I don't, mm-mm.
That's- I would definitely wash
somebody's feet, but I don't
want somebody to wash my feet
genuinely, genuinely that
was the attitude I had.
I was just like, "I don't,
I don't wanna do this."
Mm-hmm.
Like, this just seems, mm- Weird.
Uh, th- there seems like, it seems
like there could be another way that we
could- Sure ⦠you know, showcase- Show
that, yeah ⦠this kind of servitude.
And, um, and just, eh.
But then it was really great.
And then the anointing fell and, you know.
God showed you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's kinda like-
Yeah, kinda like Peter.
Yeah.
Here we go.
But, but in this instance, Peter's
like, "No, no, no, no, no, you
don't need to wash my feet.
Like, you're not gonna be
the one washing my feet.
That's not how this is gonna go."
And Jesus again is like, "Peter-
like, you don't know more than me."
This is ⦠If Jill wrote a version
of the Bible, this is how it would go.
Like, this is- Mm-hmm ⦠this
is how it would go.
Clearly I'm paraphrasing.
But Jesus tells him, you know,
"I'm gonna wash your feet."
Yeah.
Like, "This is what's gonna happen.
I've gotta do this."
And then Peter's like, "Oh, well if,
if that's the case, then you've gotta
wash my hands and my head, too."
He's gonna make up for it.
He just can't ⦠He can't just
let the lesson be the lesson.
He's like, "Oh, I really learned that."
And so, like, like, "I'm picking
up what you're putting down, Jesus.
And in addition to that, I
think we need to go further."
And I just- That's just so
funny ⦠can't handle it.
I can't handle it.
Poor Peter.
Oh.
Um- That's hilarious.
Yeah.
He, he thinks in extremes apparently.
Um- I would say he's an extreme.
He was an extreme person, for sure.
100%.
Well, like, even ⦠I mean, I'm jumping
way ahead, but even the way he died.
Yeah.
You know, like- Yeah, like, I,
I can't be, I can't be killed
the way that Jesus ⦠Yeah.
Nope.
If you did the same, I'm upside down.
Way to go, Peter.
I mean, like- I mean, it's very admirable,
but I'm just- It, it is touching.
It is touching.
And by ⦠I do think that, like,
by the time he was martyred, I
think that it was a genuine- Oh,
yeah ⦠like, I am not worthy of dying
in the same manner that Jesus did.
Yes.
And I don't think that it
was like a- No, no, no, not a
show-off thing- No ⦠for sure.
But- But I- But it's still part of his
personality, but- It definitely is.
It's, it becomes one of those things
where it's like God can take, like,
these things that you think are flaws,
and he can turn them around- Yes, yeah
and make them actually really beautiful.
Yeah.
Um, Peter shows- A little bit of
what one might call wishy-washiness-
⦠about, like, the Gentiles.
So, like, Jes- or Peter is, like, one of
the first people to be convinced that the
Gentiles are, are good with the gospel.
They deserve to have it- Thanks,
Peter ⦠all, all of the stuff.
Um, isn't Peter the one that also had
the dream and we can eat bacon now?
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
Thanks, Peter.
Thank you, Peter.
Um, so he was- I like sausage
better, but thank you.
Yeah.
I'm like, he was on the front lines
of, you know, having the gospel be
available to everyone, to you, Carrie.
Yes, yeah.
I would still get it because
I technically am a Jew.
Well, there we go.
Here we go with Jew.
But, but, um, he's on
the front lines of this.
So he, you know, Cornelius gets converted.
Cornelius was a Gentile.
Peter is down for it.
Mm.
He's all about it.
And then he goes and he's i- he's
good with the Gentiles getting the
gospel, and then he ends up in Antioch,
and he's chilling, eating with the
Gentiles, and everything's fine.
And then some Jewish peeps show
up, and he's like, "Oh, wait.
Mm.
This might be problematic for them."
It's not problematic for you, Peter.
You're already good.
Mm.
But it might be problematic
for them, so what does he do?
He doesn't teach them and be
like, "Hey, come sit with us."
No, he's like, "Oh, I'm gonna Homer
Simpson my way into the hedge-
and then, and then end up, you know,
like, taking a little step back from it.
So he just, i- he was a little bit ofâ¦
I- this is not a word that you would
typically hear with, associated
with Peter, but I would say in
this moment, he had some cowardice.
Yeah.
You know?
And this was after he had- After
he had- ⦠the Holy Spirit
the Holy Spirit.
But yeah, I mean, somet- Which lets you
know ⦠listen, sometimes you fall back.
Exactly.
That's all I was just about to say.
You fall back into old patterns sometimes.
Mm-hmm.
Doesn't mean that you're not
coming right back out, butâ¦
Well, and I mean, I guess-
If we're gonna be, you know, fair.
We don't know.
These, these particular Jewish people
might have been very- Yeah ⦠extreme.
It might have been one of those things
where it's like I'm, I'm not gonna
say we can't sit with the Gentiles.
Yeah.
But my presence with the Gentiles
might cause such a ruckus.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know.
But still, like- Yeah ⦠I'd like to
believe that if he would have stood
up and been like, "No, no, we're good.
If y- you don't have to sit with
us over here, but you can if you
want, 'cause we're all together-"
Yes ⦠"and it's all good."
Yeah.
'Cause these were Jewish believers.
Yeah.
They weren't just, like, you
know- Yeah ⦠Jewish unbelievers.
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, like they were Messianic.
Believe- Yes, Messianic is
what we're trying to say.
Yeah.
Um, let's see.
Okay, now we'll talk about, now we'll
talk about him denying Jesus three times.
Mm-hmm.
S- Three times.
Well, like we said.
Just, you know- Yeah ⦠Jesus
spoke it, it was gonna happen.
Yep.
Three times.
So, all right, do you wanna- Yeah ⦠go
into- So, okay, so now this takes
place after they know Jesus has
risen, um, this part of the story.
And I think it's interesting that
they should be very ⦠Peter,
we'll just talk about Peter.
He should be very excited
that Jesus has risen.
His best friend in the world, his Lord
and Savior- Mm-hmm ⦠is not dead.
He is risen.
Yeah.
But instead, he is, he
goes back to fishing.
Yeah.
And is, goes back to, I think, a place
of fear, because this is what I know.
This doesn't get- Well, and shame.
Yeah.
It's not ⦠He knew he denied
him, and he was, and he hadn't
actually spoken to him yet.
And, and he probably was very
embarrassed and just like-
Mm-hmm ⦠"Okay, I know I've been
called the rock, but I'm really not.
I'm just a pebble."
Well, and- You know?
⦠I mean, he, he also made such
a point to contradict Jesus and
be like, "Nuh-uh, no, I won't.
No, I won't."
Then he did.
Jesus dies.
He's, he's in this moment of like he died.
I know he's res- I know he's resurrected,
but still the last thing I did was
contradict him- Yes ⦠and then deny him.
Yes.
So.
So he, he, um, yeah, he was back to
fishing and the familiar, and, like, I'm
gonna go back to my old profession- Mm-hmm
because obviously I have failed miserably.
Yeah.
And, you know-
I think we all have been there where
we're just like, even though it's fear
and anxiety, it's still comfortable.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like even though it's
not the best life, it is still
comfortable and something we knew.
Let's just call it what it is.
It's the devil you know.
Yeah.
And like it's exactly, like
I think, you know, we are not
scared of the hell we know.
Right.
Even though it's hell.
Mm-hmm.
But we are intimidated by the,
sometimes the heaven we don't know.
Exactly.
So we- Because we have- Yeah ⦠we
have a real enemy on our shoulder
whispering and twisting things.
Well, and we're wired I think
to believe that's better for us.
Mm-hmm.
Because at least we know
what's gonna happen.
Exactly.
Even if it's horrible, we know.
It- There's no surprises.
It's kind of safe because- Yeah ⦠we
can protect and, and ex- anticipate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we can be paralyzed in this fear
because it's not anything surprising.
Mm-hmm.
So anyway, but that's not faith.
Mm-hmm.
So, so they're out fishing and of
course they're not catching anything.
Of course not.
Of course not because why would you?
'Cause they're in disobedience.
Yes.
And then, um, Jesus is on the
shore and basically says, "Y'all
need to throw on the other side."
Yeah.
Andâ¦
And again, they're like, "We've
been out here for a minute."
"We've been out here.
It's not, there's nothing here."
Like one side of the boat- Like-
the other side of the
boat, doesn't matter.
Same, same, like- But- ⦠we ain't
got anything ⦠okay, if you say.
Um, we will.
Yeah.
So they do and they catch 153 fish.
Yeah.
And I, you know, every
time there's a number.
It's, it's significant.
You need- You need to look
at it ⦠there's a reason.
Mm-hmm.
There's several reasons.
So when you look at 153, let's just
look and see what some of the things.
There's, you know, because we've
talked about Hebrew being alphanumeric.
Mm-hmm.
And each word is assigned a
number, so there's so many
connections to this number.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, anyway, three, 153, um,
represents, um, the three and a
half years of Yeshua's ministry.
Um, it was three and a half
years and let me read about this.
Hang on.
So we'll probably have to cut this out.
While we're paused, um, if you
add those together, like one,
five, and three, it's nine.
The Biblical number for nine is
divine completeness, finality,
spiritual fruitfulness.
That's good.
And like, so.
Yeah.
Okay.
Represents the closing of a cycle
and the perfection of God's will.
Yes.
It also points to the identity in Christ.
Mm-hmm.
The one through three
points to his identity.
So, you know, when they caught 153
fish, it's also pointing to the
identity, who Peter- Yeah ⦠denied.
Mm-hmm.
His identity.
And so they came in and he had made them
breakfast, which I think was really cool.
Yeah.
Of course, it's fish.
He asks him three times, "Do you love me?"
And each time, Peter gave a
different version of love.
Like, when he worded it back
to him- Mm-hmm ⦠the first
one was, "Yeah, I love you.
I love you like a friend."
Mm-hmm.
You know, an acquaintance.
The next one was deeper, and finally
the last one was the, you know,
the love, like unconditional love.
Is that the agape- Yeah ⦠love?
Yeah.
And, um, when he did that, you know,
he was restoring Peter to where
he needed to be, and Peter knew
exactly what all that meant because
that was the language, you know.
Right.
So he knew.
So y- I think it's significant that Jesus
knew he was gonna do that, but he also saw
that the restoration was gonna come, too.
And, you know, even though Peter did
act so many times in a way that was
a jerky way to act or even just, just
arrogant, and we all have been there
with different d- things we say and do.
But Jesus knows, well, I mean, we're
a work in progress, just like he is.
Yep.
But he could see where
Peter was going to end up.
Yeah.
He could see that upside down cross.
100%.
That, that day he denied him, he knew.
Mm-hmm.
So he never gives up on us, and I think
it's just, I think Peter, yes, does have
a, a better ending than Jonah, of course.
And- I mean, to be fair, again,
we don't know how Jonah ends.
Yeah, we don't.
We don't.
Like, we know how that one
particular chapter- Yes
of Jonah's life ends.
Yeah.
We have a much cl- m- more
complete picture of Peter's.
Yeah.
But I mean, these are, I, I feel
like parts of what we're looking at
with jerks, and we, we did touch into
it with Jonah a little bit in that
He, he did still have a life.
He did still have flaws.
He was still human.
And there were, there were
reasons that he hadâ¦
Were they good reasons?
I don't necessarily think so.
No.
I mean, like, there were,
there were thingsâ¦
But he was also a man of his time, and,
um, like, really, his ultimate no-no
was being disobedient- Yeah ⦠to God.
Um, and he just wasn't the most
pleasant of individuals- No ⦠while
he, like, when he finally was
obedient, he just wasn't- Yeah
that guy.
Peter was not the most pleasant of
individuals for a lot of his story.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
He also had some really great times.
Like, I, in my head, I feel like
Peter is probably one of the funniest
because he's so freaking relatable.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Like, he's just- Yeah ⦠so relatable.
Because when you think about,
especially the going out on theâ¦
Uh, listen, I would've been one of
the ones that's not gonna step out.
Yeah.
But- On a boat ⦠the sinking, if I
had stepped out, yes, I would've sunk.
Yeah.
We all would have sunk.
Yes.
There's no way I wouldn't
have noticed that.
But I mean, yeah.
I mean, you're, you're rooting for
him, but you're also, like the other
disciples, slapping your head like, "What?
What now, Peter?
Like, why?
Why do you just evenâ¦
Why do you even open your mouth?"
I- So.
You know, and I, uh, we talk about this
like they were all the best of friends.
Yeah.
And I don't think that- I don't think
so ⦠that's an accurate appraisal.
I really think that we need
to look at that dynamic as,
like, an office of coworkers.
Yeah.
Of, or, like, literally a classroom.
Mm-hmm.
Of a bunch of different personalities,
of people you didn't get to
choose to be in there with.
No.
And so you're like, "Ugh."
It's like being thrown
into a small group andâ¦
Well, like, I, I went through a lot
of small groups, um, in a church
that I was at, and they were great.
Yeah.
Like, it was a great study.
But every ti- every year or every
s- after every session, you'd have
to be thrown into a new small group.
Mm-hmm.
And you're just like, "Oh, my gosh.
I don't know these people."
Right.
Ended up being great every time, but-
But you learn and you grow together.
Yes, but there were still people
that really got on my nerves.
Mm-hmm.
But then I learned why do they get
on my nerves, and it makes sense when
you learn the background of them.
But still, yes, these are all thrown in.
Exactly.
And some of them knew each
other, but a lot didn't.
A lot didn't.
So, but you're thrown in and
you're spending day after day
with these people, and they're
probably getting on your last nerve.
Well- Well, we could see.
Yeah.
Like, in the writings of John
and, and Peter- Yeah ⦠like,
definitely could see someâ¦
Some rivalry.
Yes.
Some- And even, even not their-
⦠competition ⦠writings, but others.
Right.
Like Matthew andâ¦
You know, like, they're talking
about John ran on ahead.
John ran on ahead.
You know, and John- Yeah
John wrote John himself.
John got there first.
Yeah.
You know, John, John seemed a little bit
arrogant too at, at times too, to me.
Who's the beloved?
Who's the beloved one?
John the beloved.
Yeah.
You know?
So, um- It's funny because
they're real people.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
The Bible's funny.
It, the Bible is hilarious.
We need to do an episode just
about funny things in the Bible.
Okay.
'Cause people, I don't think people
appreciate the funny things in the Bible.
I think thatâ¦
Yeah.
I, yeah, we do.
And you also need to get the
game, The Bible Is Funny.
Yes.
It's a very- It's- ⦠very good game.
You need to play that sometime.
You learn some stuff about some people.
We should play it on the podcast sometime.
We should.
We should just read some of them.
Mm.
Well, that'd be a great way, is
just to read some of these things.
Yes.
We'll just bring some unsuspecting person.
Raven.
Yes.
Bring her on and make her
play the game with us.
Oh my gosh.
We're gonna have to do that before
this one comes out, 'cause then if
she hears this one, she's gonna know.
Well, I mean, she can know.
Yeah, she'll do it.
She'll, yeah, she'll do it.
She'll be like, "That's way Raven will."
Yeah.
We do this all the time anyway.
Yeah.
Um, man, I just, Peterâ¦
I remember one timeâ¦
This is, this might be, we might cut this.
Um, every, so far, every single time I've
said, "We might cut this," we never have.
We know, cut it.
Yeah, so you know we're keeping it in.
This, this might be the one, though.
Um, Shannon Yarborough once told me
that I was- I remember that ⦠I
was like Peter, and I was like, "No."
I was like- "Call me any other person."
I, I literally said, "Anybody else."
No, not anybody else.
Well, not anybody else, but-
Don't you mean called Judas?
No, but at the same time- Jonah ⦠in
that moment, I was like, "Not Peter."
"Not Peter", and she was like, "Why?"
And I was like, "Peter's a hothead.
Peter's a punk.
Peter does whatever he wants."
But he ended so great.
He did.
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
He's our Saint Peter.
I mean, you know, so, so many,
like, so many people wanna claim
him as, like, founder of their
specific denomination- Yeah
or whatever.
Like- Well, and like, you know, he
was in the inner circle, and look at
peop- who Jesus put- He was in the
inner circle ⦠first of all, this
whole group of men is so diverse, but,
like, in the inner circle, you got a
hothead- Mm-hmm ⦠too, sometimes.
Yeah.
So, hey, there's hope for you.
For me?
No, I was, I was looking off into the
distance of the people in the pod.
You were, you were
talking to the listeners.
Yes.
Yeah.
But then there's hope for all of
us, but- There is hope for all
of us ⦠that's what I meant.
I didn't mean you specifically, Jill.
I wasn't looking at you, was
I- No ⦠when I said it?
Nope, she wasn't.
She wasn't.
Dreaming into the future.
So the, the inner circle
being Peter, James, and John.
Mm-hmm.
So we know that, like, poor James.
Who do you most s- I
just feel like- I know.
I know ⦠poor James.
He's, he's like- Jesus,
can you believe these two?
But James is the one who wrote
the first book in the New
Testament, so he gets some- Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You know?
He gets some props there.
Yeah, he does.
So but yeah, I feel like James
is probably the, the normal one.
The normal one.
James is the one, like, standing withâ¦
I, I justâ¦
In my mind's eye I see James and Jesus
standing together watching John and Peter
bicker, and, like, Jesus is just, like,
kind of a hand on a hip, just like, "Ugh."
And James is standing there with,
like, his arms crossed, like, "How
long are you gonna let them go on?"
Like, "How, how long must we endure this?"
Oh.
You know?
I, I think he wasâ¦
If it were, if itâ¦
Say he wasâ¦
If I'm anything like Jesus.
I remember one time my first year to teach
kindergarten, um, there was these two kids
that, I mean, I love dearly, but theyâ¦
This was the first, second
week of school and I couldâ¦
One was a girl and one was a boy.
They were both, I would
say, like Peter and John.
Yeah.
Uh, both wanted the
attention, both, um, hotheads.
And we- they were out on the playground,
and this was probably week two or three,
so I already knew, "Okay, these two."
And when they get going at each other'sâ¦
And they started fighting.
I mean, hitting.
Really?
Yeah.
And I was just like, "They
both deserve this so much."
So I have to say, I
turned my back on them.
You let them go at it for a little while.
I let them go.
I could see Jesus doing that.
Yeah.
And then some little tattletale came up
to me and he's like, "They're fighting."
I was like, "Oh.
Hey, y'all stop it."
Like, "Stop.
Don't."
"Please stop."
Stop.
No.
Come back.
But I could see Jesus
acting like that with them.
I, I could too.
I can be like, "Well-
I'm just gonna let them.
They both need this.
They're not listening to me today.
Like, it's, it's like that parent
thing, like, "Well, all right.
I told you not to."
Do you think Jesus ever got out,
like, the hugging tunic for that?
I'm putting y'all both in this.
Yep.
30 minutes.
Guess, guess who's holding hands for
the rest- ⦠of the two-mile hike.
Congrats.
Oh, the stories that we don't know.
Uh, that's what I'm saying.
I just feel like- That's
what we wanna listen to.
Yep.
Y'all tell us some stories we don't know.
Yes.
In y'all's mind's eye, like,
are we way off base here?
No.
I just feel like- 'Cause
people are people.
Listen, Pastor Chris isn't
listening to our podcast, right?
Like,
Don't listen to this one.
Don't.
Close your ears.
I just, it just makes me wonder.
Like, the Bible is alive.
Mm.
The Bible is alive when I read it, and
I just ⦠There are some things that-
Yeah ⦠just make me go like, "Ooh."
And you know what has not helped that?
Is The Chosen.
Yeah, I, I mean- The Chosen-
Yeah ⦠I'm, it, I mean, like, The
Chosen has further cemented the, um-
Mm-hmm ⦠real-life attributes of
these individuals and has made me come,
like, made me solidify in my head,
like, that's probably really how it was.
Yeah.
Like, I'm not off base- Yeah
for feeling like this is
really what's going on.
It's really helped, I feel like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I need to catch up on it,
'cause I have not watched all of it.
Yeah, I'm s- I'm still way behind, way
behind The- 'Cause when I get home,
I'm like, "I don't wanna watch TV."
I just need to make it a point.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's very good.
It's so good.
And you know, the rabbi that I follow,
Rabbi Jason Sobel- Mm-hmm ⦠helps
with the- Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dean.
He helps.
He's, like, one of the
contacts, and I really like him.
I wonder what Dean thinks about it.
Dean, what'd you think about it?
Dean.
Tell us.
We need to know.
That's the other thing I wanted.
I wanna hear what Dean thinks
about how- Jerk to the Bible?
Yes.
Like, who would he- Dean, whatcha think?
⦠picture as the, the biggest jerk?
'Cause that's the other thing.
Like, we are not going, like,
"This is the biggest jerk."
Jonah's not the biggest jerk.
Peter's not the biggest jerk.
No.
I mean, clearly we all know
Satan is the biggest jerk.
Oh, he's the biggest jerk.
Obviously.
He ain't, he ain't changing.
But, um, I just, I wonder, I
wonder who Dean would come up with.
Let's ask him.
Hey.
You wanna phone him right now?
Hey, Dean.
I mean, I don't have his number.
But if, if you're in the
inner circle, Joanna- I do.
You know what he is in my phone?
What?
'Cause everybody has a
nickname in my phone.
Yes, everybody has a
nickname in your phone.
If you don't have a nickname, that
means I don't know you that well.
Um, but it is Dean Incredible.
Dean Incredible.
I love it.
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
Who else do you wanna know?
Who else do I wanna know?
Mm-hmm.
Well, I know, like, Pastor Chris
and Pastor Ronnie, and I know them.
Um, uh, and I know, like, I know,
I know the ones that- Yeah ⦠uh-
I, I don't know.
Who's likeâ¦
Who's somebody that we've had
on the pod that we can ask?
Like, I can't, mm.
Uh, Pam Turner.
Yeah.
What's Pam?
She's classy Pam.
Classy Pam.
Yeah.
Kim Turner.
Sure.
Kimberly.
Kimbertherapy.
Kimbertherapy?
I don't know why.
Just when I- ⦠talk to her she just-
What about like, um- She's so good
Samantha and Marcus?
Samantha.
Ooh.
Do these people know what
they are in here, I think?
No.
I think Samantha may
know, but, uh, Samanthaâ¦
Oh.
This last one out.
Samantha is, "Stop."
Because- Of course ⦠I sometimes,
sometimes I do scare her, but
a lot of times I don't mean to
scare her, and the first thing
out of her man, mouth is, "Stop."
That's funny.
But I mean, like, I don't mean to.
Sometimes I'm walking up to
her and she's like, "Stop."
It's because she has PTSD, because you
spent so many years scaring everybody.
Yeah.
I don't do that anymore.
I mean, it was great, but-
Yeah ⦠you don't scare- And Marcus-
⦠anymore ⦠is Marcus Hubbard Jr.,
because it's all one word.
'Cause of, yeah.
But 'Cause it's all one word.
Yeah.
So he's just Marcus Hubbard Jr.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's funny.
So yeah.
What's Ben?
Okay.
I knew you were gonna ask that.
Michael.
And I do have one, but it's long.
Remember, it's Benwa- waya.
Benwaya?
Remember I said waya is,
um, Cherokee for wolf?
Oh, yeah.
Remember I asked you, like- Yeah
would you rather be a wolf or a bear?
Yeah.
So it's Benwaya.
He's just Director Hot Buns in there.
Well, he's not that anymore.
He's, he's still, um, fun fact, he's
still listed as, um, Detective Hot Buns
in both Chuck's and Matt Moore's phone.
Because you sent the contact.
Because I sent the contact, and I
didn't fix it before- No ⦠I sent it.
And so.
Yeah, a lot of times, uh, if
somebody asks for a number, I
just have to send the number.
I can't do the share the contact-
Yeah ⦠because it has these weird names.
They'll be like, "What?"
What is this, Carrie?
Who is Benwaya?
So.
Well, listen, if you share Ben's number,
you're, you're kicked out of the group.
No, I just meant- Yeah ⦠I just took
his 'cause he's- No, I know ⦠lost one.
I don't share his.
Yeah.
I don't share numbers unless I know- Yeah
it's okay.
Yeah.
So.
And you are A Jew.
A Jew.
Because you're a Jew.
Yeah.
And I have it, I'm, I'm one of the special
few that has an A before their name-
And you have a night light ⦠'cause
I get, I- 'Cause if you- I get called
or- Do y'all, do y'all do that?
⦠texted all the time.
Do people do that?
No.
Most people just list
people in their favorites.
Well, I do that too, but I just
want the A people to pop up if Iâ¦
I don't know if you s- A is like,
you know A Ten Bear, A Tal Man.
I know.
A True Bug, A Mom, well, Mom.
It's, my mom's is Mama Say Mama Sa.
'Cause but it's an A in front of it.
Does she know?
Mama Say Mama Sa, Papa Sa.
No, she does not know.
She wouldn't get it.
Does she listen to the pod?
Oh, maybe.
She's gonna know.
But she won't, still won't know.
Mama, you know, she
doesn't know that song.
Re- you weren't allowed to
listen to Michael Jackson?
No.
Scandalous.
Kerri, that's tacky.
We have to cut this whole thing.
No, we're not.
No, we're not.
Yes, we're gonna cut it.
Anyway.
No, I love that your mom chills it.
Back to Peter.
Back to Peter.
But let us know what you think about Peter
in the comments, and talk about the jerk
that maybe we're not thinking of because
we wanna continue- Yeah ⦠this series.
Yeah.
I like it a lot.
Anyway.
All right.
Any last words of advice?
Um- Don't be, don't be a jerk
hopefully our listeners don't mind
that we just went down six or seven-
So many ⦠different rabbit trails.
Like- Sometimes we've got to.
Yeah, I- So they can
get to know how we talk.
Yeah.
So.
There's, listen, whole, full transparency.
Like, what you see is what you get.
Yeah.
We are not sugarcoating anything.
Yeah.
So.
All right.
All right.
Y'all have a great rest of the day.
Yep.
Bye.
Bye.