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TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to Spotify immediately after airing.
Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has interviewed Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Diet TBPN delivers the best moments from each episode in under 30 minutes.
The stock market is crashing. Where did it all go wrong? That's from the chat. Thank you, Gold Rock. I like that one.
Speaker 1:No. We're talking about Wong, Alice Wong, because the spy gate continues. It's getting worse. There's a whole bunch more allegations. It's very dramatic, and she's going on the naughty list.
Speaker 2:The good thing is if you think there's no way it could get worse, well, that feels like it's on the table.
Speaker 1:That is on the table. But, yes, let's pull up the naughty list because we put Jensen on the on the naughty list. But I think Alice has to go higher on the naughty list because she's the one that is the spy, and she's working for the for for the geopolitical rival, the near peer adversary. She's working for
Speaker 2:China essentially. Like, she started it.
Speaker 1:But it's it's getting it's getting crazy. There there are seven seven new accusations that some of them we touched on, some of them we haven't. I can kind of take everyone through this. First is that NVIDIA, these are all accusations. There's a varying level of reporting.
Speaker 1:Some of it's from Wired and Bloomberg and the information. Some of it's confirmed. Some of it's speculative. So, you know, you have to take all of this with a grain of salt at this point. The story is still developing, but, let's go through them.
Speaker 1:So first, NVIDIA may have interfered with a federal investigation. Commerce department investigators were investigating Mega Speed for potentially smuggling NVIDIA chips into China. After NVIDIA general counsel contacted Commerce, investigators faced unusual restrictions. They needed to route NVIDIA inquiries through senior political through a senior political appointee and avoiding and avoided references to mega speed, which is very odd. Two, NVIDIA intervened regarding Alex Wang...
Speaker 1:Alice Wong's detention. General counsel Tim Teeter called Commerce Undersecretary Jeffrey Kessler after Singapore detained Alice Wong. The question is whether Jensen was leveraging NVIDIA's influence to help her. Also, third, NVIDIA undercounted 50,000 GPUs sold to Mega Speed. NVIDIA told regulators that its inspectors had accounted for the chips, but Bloomberg identified approximately 50,000 additional GPUs worth billions of dollars.
Speaker 1:NVIDIA said it had inspected additional warehouses. Fourth, the FBI, Congress, and NVIDIA's board are now investigating. Trump said the FBI was looking into Wong, but it was unclear about exactly what. It might be a different thing. NVIDIA's board...
Speaker 2:The way the quote from yesterday made it sound like there's something else.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There's so many things. It could be within that or separate or linked to it or something, but never wanna be on the... That side of the phone call with the FBI. And so NVIDIA's board has opened its own investigation, and lawmakers raised questions about what other NVIDIA executives knew.
Speaker 1:It... I... I'm I'm actually unclear on whether this will wind up with a a testimony on the hill, like a congressional inquiry, the like the famous Mark Zuckerberg, we sell ads moment. Like, is there... Is that how this will play out, or is it
Speaker 3:all
Speaker 1:behind
Speaker 3:the scenes?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's just
Speaker 3:other ways of dealing.
Speaker 2:The entire country Mhmm. For the most part, except what that one place in North Dakota
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Voted against AI. Sure. What do you think their representatives are gonna be doing come January?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:They wanna... Jensen is one of the faces of AI. He's the most outwardly supportive of the administration. Yes. They will use him to put on an absolute show.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:A performance. Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, the exact details of that and how it goes down, I don't think are obvious yet, but Yes. He will be starring.
Speaker 1:They're gonna throw the book at him. It's gonna be the Girardian scapegoat. Someone must fall just like Sam Bankman Fried sort of was, you know, like, the power law recipient of negative attention post crypto collapse. Like this could be like a lot of attention on Jensen, less attention on other people in AI potentially. But my question is like if there if it really is like a level of national security, those might be just closed door right, or closed door investigations.
Speaker 1:Like, might be, like, there's still a conversation and you're and you're under oath, but it's not gonna be televised on Seaspan because...
Speaker 2:I'm sure they'll figure out a way to to televise some of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. No. I I think I you're right. I would just probably handicap it like...
Speaker 2:Yeah. Think 70%. You know, we were
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:We were talking with a friend last night. Mhmm. He he he he studies history's greatest entrepreneurs. And he doesn't really know much about the news, but we were sort of explaining what happened Yeah. To him.
Speaker 2:And I was like, is this the largest unforced error in business history? Yeah. And I think that it might be.
Speaker 1:No. No. I I was going back to, like, you know, Rockefeller, Henry Ford. Like, there was never a a crisis of geopolitical consequence quite like this. It really is uncharted territory.
Speaker 1:There's been plenty of business scandals in history. There's been political scandals in history, but we were even going back to Clinton and we were like, that was not that that did not reshape the geopolitical dynamic at the time. It was not like, okay. All of a sudden, you know, like, Japan had more power than America because of the Lewinsky scandal. That was a separate thing.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I just think... I I don't know enough about that to to have a strong stance, although my my assumption would be that...
Speaker 1:Nautical was he was an American.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I know. I know. I know. But, like, having a president, you know, be disgraced obviously has...
Speaker 1:It was a huge
Speaker 2:huge story. But from a... Just purely from a business standpoint Yeah. Like, you know, this... A a screw up of this magnitude is is with these kind of implications Yeah.
Speaker 2:Eviscerating hundreds of billions of dollars of market cap. I don't see how
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, knowing that there's just like a lot... There there there... It doesn't feel like we're we're hours away from a positive headline. It feels like we are months away from a... We're we're...
Speaker 2:Could years away from potentially, like, a real resolution to all all of this. Right? It's gonna be this massive overhang Yeah. On the business. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it has been interesting to track people's perception of this whole thing from Saturday... Or sorry, Sunday. People are like, okay. Wow. He admitted to having an affair.
Speaker 2:And then it's just got worse and worse and worse to the point where I think most people, even if you believe that that Jensen is the right person to run NVIDIA, right, from a from a value creation standpoint
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's hard to imagine him staying in the seat.
Speaker 1:Yeah. NVIDIA's general counsel was
Speaker 2:the nine... Stone Cold Alibi....
Speaker 1:As last as last week. So this raises the possibility that senior executives...
Speaker 2:We've got more. A get out of jail free card. Oh. If he's got...
Speaker 1:It might be on the table.
Speaker 2:Who knows? If they have one of those.
Speaker 1:That's gonna be controversial. So there's a question......
Speaker 2:Liability that also sounds bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's iffy. Yeah. So there's a question right now about, did the senior executives knowingly misrepresent the relationship or were they misled by Jensen? Also, Jensen had quietly hired crisis PR firms a year earlier.
Speaker 1:This is from Wired. They reported that Heller had been managing his behind the scenes communications since at least 2025. Anyway, the potential cover up creates personal liability for NVIDIA's directors. This is a big deal. There's already a lawsuit filed, but if Jensen concealed the relationship from the board while NVIDIA publicly characterized it as ordinary business, directors could face more shareholder litigation potentially, depending on how that breaks.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of complications there. Also, information has a fantastic breakdown that goes way deeper into Alice Wong, the James Bond of of AI, I suppose, Mega Speed. And then there's this new company that they dug up, Century Litong. Highly recommend reading this. And they actually pieced together the puzzle a lot more.
Speaker 1:I was trying to show the connections between these firms. Remember I was saying, like, okay. Mega Speed is related to Seven Road Holdings, and then there's Alice Wong's HoldCo that's in the BBIs, that whole thing. Remember that confusion? Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're like, I was I tuned out of
Speaker 2:that. Most suspect.
Speaker 1:It was extremely suspect. Corporate structure
Speaker 2:Yeah. All
Speaker 1:time. Yeah. You shouldn't be able to raise a seed round if that's your structure. It's a more complicated structure. So there's Shanghai Century Litong, which was the founding the founding sole shareholder, exited June 2024.
Speaker 1:Then that's Shanghai Century Long Tang, which is indirectly owned until June 2024. Then Shanghai Yunxi Investment, which is owned 99% until 2017. It's insane. Also, I didn't know Alice Wong is married, and so they're both actually married. Alice Wong is married to Kong Wei, who's the founder and major shareholder of Shanghai Hexie Capital, which was a shareholder in Zhejiang Century, Huatong, which is a shareholder in Seven Year Old Holdings Limited, which is...
Speaker 1:Which formerly owned Mega Speed. So her husband was a shareholder in Mega Speed through, like, five layers or something. So... And and and I don't even know. Is is he stoked about this?
Speaker 1:He's like, good job. You you honey potted successfully. Like, that was the name of the game. Or was it like, oh, I wasn't expecting you to honeypot like
Speaker 2:that? It's possible the marriage was like part of the whole corporate structure.
Speaker 1:Right? No one knows. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No no one knows.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I saw a retail investor over on Instagram crashing out because they were big Nvidia holder. Mhmm. Well, probably not a big Nvidia holder. But a lot of their portfolio Yeah.
Speaker 2:Was was Nvidia. And they were talking about how how they bought the dip Friday, had a great weekend, and woke up to discover that they didn't even... They weren't even referencing the CEO by name. Mhmm. Right?
Speaker 2:Because it... I don't think they're like that focused on But but they were like, and now I find out that the the CEO had an affair, but not just a run of the mill affair, like an affair with an alleged spy. Yeah. Like... And anyways, it...
Speaker 2:It's just... Yeah. They're calling it the greatest unforced error in business history. Fratality. Hopefully not.
Speaker 2:Hopefully not.
Speaker 1:Going on the nice list, we have our first nice list addition, the United States marines. Happy birthday, marines. Today is the 250 birthday of the marine corps. And and Jackson over there wrote a very nice tribute in the newsletter to his --... Success.
Speaker 1:Grandfather. Jackson, take us through the story of Michael Fordyce and and your grandfather, Tom.
Speaker 4:Yeah. My dad joined the marines right out of high school.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:He went to The Middle East, was in Gulf War, served in Operation Desert Storm. My grandfather also went to the marines out of high school.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 4:Was sent off to Vietnam. Fought in the battle of Kaesong, which was, I think, one of the most, like, kind of gruelly and bloody battles of the Vietnam War. Got his arm shot off, unfortunately. And he has... How do you...
Speaker 4:He explained it to me today. It's called a myo... Myoelectric hand.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:So he thinks and it moves and picks up things.
Speaker 1:Interesting. He actually has like the Wow. Luke Skywalker arm. That's incredible.
Speaker 4:I asked him how it works. He says, I don't know. It just does.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I love it.
Speaker 4:But that's it. They're awesome guys. I love them a ton, and I appreciate their service.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Yeah. Thank you for those... For their service. We love them.
Speaker 1:And happy birthday to the marines. Going on the nice list. Let's dig into more posts from the timeline. Amir over at the information gives more context on, Alice Wong says, forget the role of mega speed. Forget the word mega speed.
Speaker 1:Mega speed doesn't matter. It's It's almost a distraction. Her real story is her role at China based Shanghai Century Litong, which I mentioned before in that very confusing chart, which became a preferred NVIDIA cloud provider or partner in mid twenty twenty three and facilitated over $7,500,000,000 in NVIDIA chips shipments, including securing banned chips. Remember, the CHIPS Act, that's Biden era, pre Trump Oh, well, after Trump one, before Trump two, the CHIPS Act restricted the a 100, the h 100. And so eventually, NVIDIA came out with the h 20, which was sort of the nerfed version of the of the flagship chip.
Speaker 1:But Century Litong was still able to get the the the unnerfed chips, the best that NVIDIA had to offer, exactly what the government didn't want to have happen. And now there is a world where you get duped and you accidentally sell something to someone who is exporting it and going around export controls. And that would be the opposite of the smoking gun, the nothing burger, right? If there's clear evidence that he was duped along that way and it really was like, well, I went to their facility in Shanghai or not Shanghai, sorry, Singapore. I went to the Brazilian in Singapore.
Speaker 1:I talked to the companies that were there. They were not involved within the CCP or in China at all. And so it was totally fine. And, like, I had done all the checks and we had all of our teams check that the GPUs were staying there and they were not going to be used internationally. I I I I know.
Speaker 2:Ellis was detained by the Singaporean government.
Speaker 1:We have a lot of evidence that it's worse than that,
Speaker 3:but that would be the best case. Even it was
Speaker 1:Given what we know.
Speaker 2:Even even if it... They were originally tricked, there's been a year since that detention where they could have been Yeah. Like front running this story.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Not not not good. So Alice Wong and her sister and her husband have built a labyrinth of companies spanning China and Singapore to acquire NVIDIA chips, according to people who know Alice Wong and corporate registration records. At the center of that corporate network is Shanghai Century Litong, a China based company that was founded in June 2023, and by October, was added to NVIDIA's list of preferred cloud partners.
Speaker 1:That's fast to start a company and and rocket and actually get on NVIDIA's radar. I mean, I I feel like, you know, you talk to startup founders all the time who are like, I would love to get a meeting with a big company. Like, I'm I'm six months in. They won't they won't answer my emails. Not so in this case.
Speaker 1:So there's other news. When a shipment of banned NVIDIA chips could not be obtained from NVIDIA's distributors, Alice Wong stepped in. One of the people who knows her said her role was to secure the chip orders when they got stuck in the supply chain. She told some colleagues and customers that she could always get the supply, citing her close relationship inside NVIDIA and with distributors another person who knows her said. Rough.
Speaker 1:Anyway, where should we go next? To Matt Levine or over to negligible capital? Imagine telling someone six months ago during the SaaS apocalypse that Microsoft will have a greater market cap than NVIDIA by November. It is it is remarkable that NVIDIA was actually the biggest company in the world right as this was all happening. So he...
Speaker 1:It's literally, you know, the target number one for a geopolitical rival. Like, there's no other CEO that you would go after. It's it's it's truly the most the most important. And here we are. Here we are.
Speaker 1:But...
Speaker 2:That's why it's a black swan. It's a black swan. For sure. The question is, like, can Jensen, while he's under investigation
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:From multiple groups continue this sort of like deal making spree Mhmm. Or does a lot of that have to just hit pause? Yep. Right? And part of, you know, people talk about moats all the time Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But like, if people are willing to be honest, and moats are just like, you know, the people running the show. And and that the overall talent density.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so much of NVIDIA's like moat was just like Jensen's incredible tenacity and work ethic and and basically, like, schemes. Right? You know, when when you look at, the neo cloud space and, like, how he's approached
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Those relationships and and supplier relationships. I mean, he's the sort of like Jensen discount that you have to put on NVIDIA. Mhmm. Even the possibility of it is like extreme.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and then the impact for the private markets is like, I think a lot of VCs were basically like, you know, shoot for the moon, but even if you miss, like Jensen will give you another up round or or he'll, you know, buy your buy your company. I mean, even I was sitting here looking at looking at Core Weave as it's been beat up Mhmm. Being like, gents, there's no world where this company fails because Jensen, I don't think we'll let it happen.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:And there's so many more questions around how he'll approach running the business. You know, I can imagine as long as he's CEO, he's probably gonna, like, stick to his guns and keep doing what he's doing. But he... It's just like his entire strategy of like being everywhere all the time. Just being again like, he's not actually like Switzerland in practice.
Speaker 2:Right? Like NVIDIA is very aggressive, you know, wants to do everything he can to win, but but generally being like, I'm gonna fund everyone. Right? The sort of like Switzerland, you know, sort of like neutral approach. He just wants AI to grow and he wants people to buy NVIDIA GPUs.
Speaker 2:And if that's happening, he's happy. Right? He's gonna support all the, you know, the the NeoLabs. Like, there's like a ton of NeoLabs that have raised like a billion dollars. Right?
Speaker 2:And a lot of them now have to be... They were they were hoping, like, if can just prove out that we are, like, on the path to making something commercially viable or interesting, like, we can probably count on NVIDIA for, like, 500,000,000 or or a billion dollars or to anchor around. As we've gotten into this period where it feels like capital is the primary constraint to the build out, a lot of people want to build data centers. A lot of people think that there's going to be exceptional demand for compute regardless of the midterms. If capital is the...
Speaker 2:If we're all realizing like, Hey, the rates that developers and everybody in the seven layer cake are having to pay now to finance different, you know, their own CapEx, whether they're on the bottle, you know, the sort of AI infrastructure side, all the way to like the real estate and powered shell side. You know, one of the biggest financiers of this entire build out is, like, effectively, you can't lean on them anymore in the same way that you could. And that's why I just think
Speaker 1:We gotta
Speaker 2:do major stimulus checks. Reckoning. Right?
Speaker 1:We gotta do stimulus stimulus checks. We gotta get the money printer going. We gotta get the crack crack crack crack crack. No. It is it is such a black swan.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because we lived through a very crazy moment with the situational awareness that still didn't feel like a black swan because there were so many people from day one being like, oh, this is not gonna work, or this is so this is so risky. It's too good to be true. And that and that puts it in like, it was it was surprising, and it was it was a a very rough moment, and it was it was tough to watch. It was sad, but, it was not as much of a black swan as this. Where...
Speaker 1:Tyler, you had a comment, and then I wanna know where where the prediction markets are.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's that's what I was gonna say. Please. They... They're up almost 10% from yesterday Okay.
Speaker 3:Of... If Jensen is out before July of next year.
Speaker 1:Of next year....
Speaker 3:Almost 40 right now.
Speaker 1:40%.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And yesterday, was around 30, 31.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I've heard a lot of chatter about people saying, like, he can't stay, but at the same time, there's not a very clear succession list. And it it... It's a it's a crisis. Yeah, it is just a crisis.
Speaker 1:Anyway, there is so much more NVIDIA news, but we should probably move on. Anthropic news, there's a ton there. They're on track for IPO. They put out their prospectus and offering documents videos, and they have a whole host of ways to interact with their data. And also Fable 5.2 came out and is doing very well on benchmarks.
Speaker 1:And people are starting to show demos of that, and that's very promising. Really rough timing because Jensen is sucking a lot of the air out of the room. At the same time, it is sort of a vindication of their positioning that the the geopolitical conflict with China is extremely high stakes, extremely serious, and will be taken to the extreme. And
Speaker 2:so it's... Yeah. And they have a new 80,000,000,000 ARR number. Think there's like a lot of... There's still a million reasons to be bullish on Anthropic.
Speaker 1:You also cut the valuation.
Speaker 2:And if you were bullish... If you... Yeah. The valuation's cut, you have a better entry point if if if if if you do wanna invest. And so I think in hindsight, I a lot of people will be like, wow, this was like sort of a golden opportunity and that there was so much bad news and yet the Anthropic's business was still working in the way that it has been.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that creates, you know, an opportunity for everybody participating. And my assumption is that, like, retail will be able to get massive exposure Yes. At the at the IPO.
Speaker 1:Did you see that on their website? They have, like, a whole... They they have a whole... They have, like, a bunch of case studies of companies that are using Anthropic, but then they also have a section where it's, like, how how how can you participate? And it says, like, click here to know the Charles Schwab route.
Speaker 1:Click here for the Robinhood route. Click here for the E Trade route. And they all have... Like, you can click your brokerage and, like, go through a flow. And so that felt...
Speaker 1:I don't know. It felt like down to earth or something to see. I mean, it may... Maybe it's standard practice, but it seemed like...
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:It was kind of like... It it it wasn't it wasn't highfalutin. It it felt it felt very, like, yeah, like we're...
Speaker 2:Well, I think a lot people's mental models is still like a company goes out and they raise $4,000,000,000 Yeah. In their IPO. Right? And there's and there's just like plenty of big investment banks who will fund that. And now it's like, yeah, you can carve out $10,000,000,000
Speaker 1:for retail.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or more. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Phil Bishop is is just showing the... The bishopinator? The bishopinator is doing bunch of bunch of pungentry. He says, NVIDIA execs ran a smear campaign against proponents of chip export controls, bear... Bullied people on the hill.
Speaker 1:They made so many enemies, and now no one is afraid of them. I think we are still in the tip of the iceberg phase of what is gonna come out. He thinks that there's gonna be many more shoes, a whole closet full of shoes dropping over the next couple months maybe.
Speaker 2:Imagine they open the closet and a, like, 300 nothing burgers would spill out.
Speaker 1:Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Fire up the grill. We're cooking up a nothing burger.
Speaker 3:I I haven't seen anyone post that nothing ever happens. Yeah. Yeah. So... You gotta post that....
Speaker 2:Could be. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You have one of the all time worst nothing ever happens post right before the start of the Iran war, I believe.
Speaker 3:Yes. Correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:True l for
Speaker 2:you. Fade Tyler.
Speaker 1:True l. But that's what you come to TBPN for. Hot takes. Travis Kalanick chimed in with a vague post, sort of. I mean, everyone knows what it's about.
Speaker 1:He's talking about in video, but he says, had a little time on my hands this morning to do some writing, send along to someone you know who may benefit. Practical principles to counter a modern day coup, psyop, struggle session. Own what you did, but fiercely resist accommodating the mob. The op is not about your past actions, about... It's about your enemies.
Speaker 1:And this event is their opportunity. No matter how bad it gets, nothing is as bad as it seems. He's saying it's it's a it's a mindset issue.
Speaker 2:Sort of the interesting thing is like going from where every single day that's passed. Yeah. Well, it's only Tuesday, the last couple of days. Every single day, it seems it's actually worse than I originally thought.
Speaker 1:True. Yeah. Does seem to be getting worse before it gets better. But hey, nothing burger could be coming at any minute, any minute. Well, it does seem like Anthropic is on track to IPO next Thursday, which will be very exciting.
Speaker 1:I believe SpaceX went out on Friday and didn't really start trading or moving around much later in the day. So we'll be covering it. It's also g... It's potentially landing on GTA six launch day. So we're going to figure out the schedule, but should be a fun day tracking how the market reacts to that.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty optimistic, but we'll see what happens. It'll be also, we're going to Tomorrow X next week, and we're going to be talking to a bunch of, like, the most qualified people, Anthropic investors, many of the folks who are underwriting the IPO. So be sure to tune in next Tuesday and Wednesday because we have an all time lineup to cover this IPO and understand what's happening both with the AI trade and Anthropic specifically. So it should be a really, really great week of coverage.
Speaker 2:Well, here we go. Amazon unveils a flying home security drone.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Ring Robotics has two autonomous security devices, a $250 flying camera for homes Mhmm. And a thousand dollar roaming robot for businesses. The Ring DroneCam flies preset routes indoors, automatically investigates triggered alarms, and records two k video. Its AI pilot maps rooms and navigates around obstacles. The rover cam autonomously patrols businesses, investigates disturbances, records up to four k video.
Speaker 2:I think this is quite cool. We have a security system in the office. Yeah. The cameras are at, like, very specific angles. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not... I would love for a drone to launch when there's an intrusion.
Speaker 1:I think... Ship with Kamikaze mode? Is that an add on that you have to subscribe to? Or do you have to use a zero day and what... In a model to root it and then side load your own operating system?
Speaker 2:Also, should just come they should just come as a swarm. So you should be able to get thousands of these drones.
Speaker 1:You probably can. You can just get a whole bunch of these.
Speaker 2:All coordinate because, yeah, once you unlock kamikaze mode, you don't wanna be limited to... You don't wanna be, like, you know, just have one shot. Yes.
Speaker 1:So very cool. I think this will be maybe successful. I don't understand why it's indoors. Don't you want outdoor patrols, outdoor security? Don't you want the drone on your roof docked and then kind of, like, flying a little patrol every once in a while based on the cameras?
Speaker 1:Like, it feels like, why are you waiting till there's an intruder inside to, like, launch this little drone that can just swat swat away?
Speaker 2:No. I mean I mean, it's like if you get an alert that Yeah. That there's been some sort of intrusion. Think default assumption should be that it's not actually... Like, if if you have a home security system
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Over the course of a decade
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're gonna get a bunch of notifications that are an intrusion. Probably, hopefully, 99% of them are are like, you know, somebody came home and like that that lives there, didn't know it was armed and, you know, whatever. Right? Yeah. So there's gonna be a lot of false positives.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the drone is how you quickly determine is this a false positive Yeah. Or not without having like... I'd rather have Indoor drone cameras. I'd rather have a drone than like 20 indoor cameras.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You don't want indoor cameras. When Nat Friedman said that he had a series of indoor cameras and he was able to get his open claw to, like, kind of bully him into drinking water. You remember that? The Stripe sessions. I was like, that's...
Speaker 1:It's very cool that he's such an early adopter of this, but I don't know if I want a bunch of indoor cameras. So having the ability to snap your fingers, put a camera anywhere in your house without needing to install always on cameras that immediately become worse spyware than your than your smart TV potentially. That is very cool. But I wanna see what these things can do outside. Can these things run around outside?
Speaker 1:Can you trick them into thinking they're inside when they're actually outside? Because the outdoor patrol seems like the the thing to get. But maybe maybe an opportunity for a startup, maybe...
Speaker 2:It is funny that they sort of contrast between these two things. Like the drone seems kind of like sinister. It's the matrix. You know, we're living in a sort of a dark sci fi future. And then the little home robot is like very WALL E coated.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it's like, maybe it could have made the drone like a little bit more friendly.
Speaker 1:Oh, I would have gone the other way. Made the rolling robot a little bit more intimidating through some barbed wire on that thing.
Speaker 2:The crazy thing is like, how do you... This product launching right now Yeah. Is... It's tough timing because of all the new cybersecurity risks.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Somebody takes it over.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't even have thought twice about it. Totally. Call it like six, twelve months ago. Yeah. Whereas now I'm like, do I want something that can take off in my home and fly around?
Speaker 2:Yeah. At the very least, like you gotta really, really, really trust Ring.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Totally. And Amazon, which is, you know, in the top five most trusted companies.
Speaker 2:They can spend more on cybersecurity for this product than any other probably public security company.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, it is it is still like... There's always like a human...
Speaker 2:But I but I so so...
Speaker 1:I accidentally gave a password away
Speaker 2:or something. With the with the ADT acquisition Mhmm. Like, I expect them to introduce a bunch of products like this. Yeah. And that's what I want out of these security companies.
Speaker 2:I've talked a lot about the, like, the pitch for humanoids as, like, home security Yeah. Deterrence product. I think it's gonna be far easier to have a humanoid be disruptive to a home intrusion than it is for a humanoid to do laundry. Totally. Fold laundry well or do the dishes.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So bullish on on this category.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. It's cool to see that Ring is like still innovating even inside of Amazon. It seems like they're making good progress. Fireworks has been hacked.
Speaker 2:Inference Yeah. Platform hacks, obviously railway has been going through it. Fireworks has been hacked. OpenCode was another that was dealing with a bunch of cyber issues. Basically a month ago, various groups decided like we are going after the inference providers.
Speaker 2:Like one, you can potentially like get access to Yeah, can get access to compute, but you can also exfiltrate weights. And this fireworks incident is the first example where I think they were not able to exfiltrate all the weights. And again, you know, fireworks is hosting open models that have been, you know, post trained by companies like Yeah. There's a lot data, know, there's a lot of reasons why people would want those. But fortunately, seems like they only got some small percentage
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Of of the weights and and
Speaker 1:Seems like no
Speaker 2:they caught it the same day. Again, I I kind of expect it to be kind of like rove, like the... They're sort of like roving efforts where like it's we're going after startup, like scale up inference providers. Yeah. And then it'll probably go to another Yeah.
Speaker 2:Category of company.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It seems like... I mean, Ilias Letsgiver sort of predicted this back in September. He said, Neo Clouds have limited cyber security. Next time agents successfully go rogue, they'll they'll try taking over a Neo Cloud to run more copies.
Speaker 1:This is bad. Thus, Neo Cloud should greatly strengthen their cyber security and every company with strong cyber model should help with that. Raul said, never wrong, just early. And, yeah, this isn't quite that because I don't think they got access to all the compute, but they stole a lot of data, stole a lot of weights, and they were not able to, like... They were not able to fully take control of NeoCloud.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah. Also, I think Ilya here is talking about, like, rogue agents.
Speaker 1:Rogue agents.
Speaker 3:And this was not... I mean, I I don't think we Yeah. Believe that this...
Speaker 1:But we're like we're we're like, you know, he's he's he's like, this is a proof point in the step in the chain that that an inference provider was able to be hacked is a is a novel and new new problem. Bang. Well, there's one more thing. Cisco.