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Hosts Mikki Paradis and Jessica Abreu discuss how homeowners can still be scammed by contractors who seem legitimate, stressing that confidence can be a red flag and research is essential. They cover a fraud case in upstate New York (2019–2023) where a couple used multiple similar business names, contracts, and fake references—one was the contractor’s wife—to take large upfront deposits, stall or abandon projects, deliver poor work, refuse refunds, and spend victims’ money on personal expenses like casino trips and luxury vehicles; losses exceeded $1.5 million across more than a dozen homeowners. The husband received a 5–15 year prison sentence and the wife got six months plus probation. They outline protections: verify licenses and qualifiers, research names via Secretary of State and court filings, avoid deposits over 20%, tie payments to progress, don’t rush decisions, and visit active job sites.
00:00 Confidence Is a Red Flag
00:17 Meet the Hosts
00:48 Justice and Jail Jokes
02:55 Hector and the Purchase Order
06:16 Tech Adoption in Trades
08:15 Why Trades Beat AI
09:37 Research and Real Facts
11:23 Scam Story Setup
14:57 Fraud Case Overview
19:57 Multiple Company Names Warning
23:44 Fake References and Reviews
29:04 Verify Work on Site
31:32 Where the Money Went
31:51 Victims Count the Losses
32:15 Charges and Sentencing
33:51 How the Scam Looked Legit
36:03 Red Flags to Watch
36:07 Multiple Business Names Explained
39:49 Upfront Deposits and Overpaying
41:58 Work Stalls and Bad Workmanship
44:44 Protect Yourself With Research
47:58 Verify Licenses and Qualifiers
52:21 Progress Payments Not Pressure
57:17 Final Takeaways and Share Stories
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Creators and Guests
Host
Jessica Abreu
As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.
Host
Mikki Paradis
President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.
What is Chicks in Construction?
You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.
From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.
The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Abreu, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home.
After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.
Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/
44 Chicks In Construction
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Mikki : [00:00:00] So confidence isn't necessarily like, oh, they're so confident they couldn't be lying to me.
No, they probably are. That level of confidence is almost a red flag. So just because somebody seems legit doesn't mean you don't do your research. Well, hello and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction.
I'm your host, Mickey Paradise, and this is my illustrious co-host.
Jessica: Hi, I am Jessica Abra,
Mikki : and listen, we're here today like we are, every episode to help you not get screwed over by shady contractors, by sharing your stories that you write in. Now, sometimes we have a story for you, and sometimes we find one on the interwebs.
On the, on the intranets as one does, and that that's what we're doing today. Mm-hmm. Um, I do, I will say I do like the internet stories because frequently they do lead to someone being arrested. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm hungry for justice after [00:01:00] all of the stories that, that you guys submit. Mm-hmm. Where it ends with.
And the lawyer said it wasn't worth us suing over Terrible. I do love a story where, where street Justice turned into real justice and they be living in a prison sale with three hots in a cot. That, that does do the soul.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki : Just wonders for the soul.
Jessica: Sometimes I feel like they don't even deserve the three hots.
No.
Mikki : They can have the car just like, how about one cold and then fight, fight to the death overnight. That's not right. But sorry about that. I, I heard it when it came out my mouth. That's, well this isn't the Hunger Games. Ish. We're not there yet. We're, we're on our way, but we're not there yet. How dare I, yeah.
No, but I also, on the flip side of that, think frequently about, huh? Would it be easier to just go to jail? Like some days I'm just like, I'm not sure if I'm made, if I'm really cut for this like straight and narrow nonsense of like, like the [00:02:00] legality of all of it. I'm, some days I just wanna be a criminal.
I'm not gonna lie.
Jessica: Oh nope. N me, I'm like,
Mikki : just as a, not ever. Mm-hmm. She has kids. She is got a reason to live. Me. That's question.
Jessica: I mean, you have dogs. I do.
Mikki : You have
Jessica: the dogs.
Mikki : But they're, yeah. I frequently also look at my dogs and think when I die, when I come back, it's you. But with my luck, I would die and come back as a dog that like
Jessica: is
Mikki : living on the streets, but like street dog, like hustle and to survive.
Mm-hmm. And I would be in my little dog body going, wait.
I would be a Sarah McLachlin commercial,
and I wouldn't get compensated for my antigen likeness on that commercial and I'd still be on the streets. But this time in the arms of an angel. Yeah, it's like, I'm just like, nah, Mick, you should just stick with what she got going here.
'cause it's as good as it's gonna get. Let's just be real
Jessica: and be fine.
Mikki : Yeah, I was just so you guys know, I was late today to recording [00:03:00] because my delightful husband Hector, um, listen, listen. He's a man. He's a man. So communication is limited. I'm just, I'm just, I'm not
Jessica: gonna lie. Yeah. We're still, we're still on communication 1 0 1
Mikki : 100%.
So I sometimes make the assumption that Hector is being quiet 'cause he has nothing to say. Sometimes that's right. Sometimes that's wrong. So this morning he's like, Hey, um, you're not, what, what are you doing now? Despite the fact that literally last night he asked me, what's my day gonna be next for, for tomorrow?
And I'm, which I think is delightful 'cause I'm like, oh, he cares.
Jessica: He care.
Mikki : But was he listening? I'm not sure. No, I'm not sure guys, because I, I give him the rundown of my insane day today and all the things that have to get done and it's, it's pretty wild in these streets. Um. So as I'm like hustling to get all the things to get out the door to get here, he goes, oh, well what whatcha doing?
Whatcha whatcha? Do you think I'm panicking because I'm late? Oh, um, well, I need, I need you to put this purchase [00:04:00] order in. So the funny part about this is I literally pay a, an obscene amount of money every month for us to have this purchase order software on your phone. On your phone so you can do it yourself.
So specifically. So
Jessica: he could, he could just
Mikki : a hundred percent go
Jessica: ahead in and do it.
Mikki : He could if he bothered to ever learn how to use it ever. And this is my life. Mm.
Jessica: Like, I feel like Hector's going to be given a tutorial on how to do this so that you don't end up late all the time.
Mikki : I don't know. I also, I feel like this is just the, the story of my life.
I'm gonna spend money on expensive software so that my guys, including Hector, will actually step into to this current century. Use technology. And it was so funny, I was talking to a friend of mine who owns an HVAC company and he was, I was telling him about this, and he was like, you know what's funny?
The other day I was yelling at my guys, 'cause they won't use our software. And they're, they're, they're, oh, we can't, we [00:05:00] can't, we don't know how to, we can't, we can't, we don't use, we don't use technology.
Jessica: Oh my God. No.
Mikki : And he goes, but, but I saw you scrolling on TikTok. I see you scrolling on the talk.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki : So if you can use TikTok, you could use this app.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki : And I was like, I just looked at Hector and I made like real dead eye contact, like.
Jessica: Got you
Mikki : real uncomfortable, direct eye contact
Jessica: and you just stay quiet.
Mikki : Right. Get, make it weird and hold it for a real long time. So I just did that and he's just, he does this nervous giggle and it's a, it's a quality nervous giggle.
Like, it's like, and he's like looking around like, is she gonna come across the table?
Jessica: Are there witnesses? There's, there's people here, right. Are
Mikki : the cameras on? Because they might come for you. So yeah, that was a, that was just the dream. So I was late guys 'cause I had to turn that purchase order and I was like, well what happens if we don't turn it in right now?
Well, we're probably not gonna be [00:06:00] able to bill for any of this stuff for another 30 days. Oh, okay. So you're waiting until the, the moment it needs to be submitted to let me know that something needs to be ordered.
Jessica: Not Friday.
Default_2026-04-20_1: Not
Mikki : Friday, not Saturday,
Jessica: not Sunday.
Mikki : Nope, nope,
Jessica: nope.
Mikki : No, no, nope. Just I'm just over here living the dream.
I will say, this is why. Technology and construction is part of why it's so far behind is that it's just so hard to get your employees. In this case, the vice president of my company slash husband, um. To just use technology like it, it's, it is, oh man. A real, it is a, the struggle is real. And that is why, in many reasons why construction is so slow to adapt technology, which is why whenever we have a story that involves technology and construction, I'm like, oh, oh, strap in, because it's here.
We go out to get good. People use, like tech, people use technology and then they, they get these like wild ideas about how, [00:07:00] how this was such to be so useful in construction. And there's just a part of me that lasts a little bit. 'cause I'm like, oh, you don't, you don't know. You don't know.
Jessica: No.
Mikki : I will
Jessica: say maybe, maybe the, the youngins, the youngins coming up where they had that is the hope they had these their whole life.
Mikki : The problem with that is the youngins don't be growing up wanting to be a plumber. Sadly. They're especially
drywall,
like there's money in plumbing. Listen. The brown gold is real. It is real. I have two nephews, three, three nephews now that are plumbers. It is like, they all are, they ju like graduated high school a couple years ago, all own their own homes.
Have like multiple vehicles have like recreational. They'd be making the brown gold type of money. I'm here for it. But the, the, the average range of like, people going into, like people in the trades are retirement age.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki : It's wild in these streets. I'm wants to, when these [00:08:00] dude retire, we are up a creek without a single solid battle.
Jessica: Yeah. Well anybody that wants to get into the trades now.
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica: Like you'll be able to like ride off into the sunset with like a ton of money because there's not gonna be anybody to do anything.
Mikki : No, and and it's like, so I was talking to somebody the other day and they were like in a full blown mental panic about AI taking their job.
And I was like, I'm gonna say something to you that's probably not gonna help, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Go into the trades. Mm-hmm. And she was like, I have a career. And I was like, you have a career that doesn't exist in five years. You know, what will plumbing, electrical, HVAC robots aren't taking these jobs.
I don't care. I've seen, I don't know if you've seen the robot that hangs drywall. He, he's like, he grabs the drywall and it's like.
Jessica: And
Mikki : nine years later has hung nine sheets of drywall while this guy's [00:09:00] still, he's just, and like, I guess you could have 1500 of them for 10, you know, like a million dollars a pop. But I don't think the ROI is there. No. So
Jessica: get into the
Mikki : trades. I can't stress this enough. Y'all get into the trades, but
Jessica: get a license.
Mikki : Do what? Can we not just wake up one day and decide we're a plumber? Like, let's wake up one day and be like, huh, I'm interested in plumbing. Let me go find a plumber. Let me see if I can do an apprenticeship. Let me start at the bottom and work my way up. Um, that's,
Jessica: that's how you do it.
Mikki : That's how that,
Jessica: it's gonna take a little bit of time.
Mm-hmm. So start now
Mikki : for reals though. Please do. I also saw this thing from Carolina Forward, which I love them because they're always like keeping you posted on, um, like what's happening in, in the state. And they came out and we're like trash talking. Like, like trade education's so hard. And I was like, ha, ex, excuse me.
How dare [00:10:00] you. They were like saying We don't need to be spending tax dollars to teach like kids wood shop or like, like trade trade, ma. Like, I'm like, I'm sorry. Have you not read anything about what's happening in the whole, the whole United States? Apparently not. So they're Carolina A forward, sometimes.
Sometimes.
Jessica: And the rest of the time and they're roll
Mikki : backwards.
I was like, okay, do better. I also had like a little mini. Comment, feed with the guy because he was talking about something related to drywall and it was so inaccurate. I was like, no, absolutely not. So what I will give him props for mm-hmm. Is after we had our little exchange, he went and researched it and came back into the comments and was like, Hey, by the way, I researched it and I I see that you're right.
And I was like, cool. Thank
Jessica: you.
Mikki : Um, maybe this is an idea. 'cause you know, since you have like a million followers, maybe research it before you
post it.
I, who am I though? Don't let me tell you how to have a good [00:11:00] time.
Jessica: See, researching things beforehand is so important. Facts, you
Mikki : know,
Jessica: licenses
Mikki : not, not alternate facts or what is it?
Alternative facts. Just real facts.
Jessica: Real facts.
Mikki : Facts. Straight off of the fax machine. Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Not fake news.
Mikki : No, not fake news guys. Mm-hmm. Real facts is, is really, it's what we're trying to bring you. It's, that's why we did some research. I will tell you, we have, um,
Jessica: a wild story.
Mikki : We do have a wild story. It is.
I, I feel like they're starting to merge in my brain altogether as just like one massive homeowner horror story. 'cause I'm just, I was going through it and I was like, wait, is this the one where this happened? And I was like, oh no, this happened. It's just like, oh my God.
Jessica: Right?
Mikki : It's insane.
Jessica: And I read them, I was like, didn't we say this already?
Mikki : No. So, but
Jessica: we didn't, so you guys gotta listen to this.
Mikki : Its crazy. I'll say that. If you've watched multiple episodes, which I hope you do, and I hope you enjoy them, some of them start to feel really repetitive. Unfortunately it's [00:12:00] because nobody's talking about this, these scams nobody's talking about like actively, openly.
Consistently all the time about the things that are happening to homeowners. And so contractors are just getting away with this. And it's one of those things where if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So if nobody knows how to combat some of these shady contractor tactics, they just keep using 'em. Which is why in some of the comments, like not so much on YouTube, but on our Instagram, it's been getting spicy up in there.
'cause the contractors see us calling out their shady shenanigans and they get. Mm. Mad. They get mad. Get big mad. So listen, check us out on Instagram if you wanna see these spicy comments and know at
Jessica: Chicks Construction podcast.
Mikki : Yes, please. That's Instagram. And then TikTok is just at Chicks Construction.
Mm-hmm. Um, when you see these people comment, you'll know, just look 'em up, see what town they're in, and just realize, okay, this is a person I need to avoid ever doing business with. [00:13:00] We, we'd be, we'd be making the, the shady ones real spicy, mad, which mm-hmm. Listen, it brings joy to my soul.
Jessica: It does.
Mikki : I hope I'm making you mad if you're out here screwing people over.
And I think the worst part is the people that are screwing people over and have convinced themselves that they're doing everything right. Mm-hmm. And everybody else is the problem. Yes. Like I appreciate a little. I am a scammer and I know it moment. You know, just like somebody who's like, yeah, I'm not here.
That's what I'm
Jessica: doing
Mikki : on the streets, breaking the law. Whatcha gonna do? I appreciate that more than the, than the Rachel Paradises of the world that will just gaslight the shit out of you. And you're over here thinking, wait, am I, did I do this? Did I the problem? No, no, you're not. I think those are the worst ones.
And on it, it's what we see more than not is people not taking responsibility for anything that they've done for any of their behavior. Yeah, just lying. And they have now started to believe their own lies. [00:14:00] So unfortunately, which is, that's part of the story.
Jessica: That's where, that's where we're going. People we're coming.
Mikki : That's where we're, we're, we're trying to lead you to it. So let's get started. We have a script. We've been working just laughs 'cause like I'm doing the scripts.
Jessica: Watch out. It's hysterical.
Mikki : So we start. It's a slow and controlled tone. It's, that's in the script. Just want you guys to know, I did not put that in there, but I did get some assistance from, from the intranets.
So what would you do in your slow and controlled tone if the contractor you hired to build your home had great reviews? Multiple company names and even references you could call, but none of it was real.
Jessica: Dun dun, dun dun. Oh my god.
Mikki : We didn't even practice that. That's amazing. We're sharing the
Jessica: brains
Mikki : connected.
Jessica: Watch yourselves. It's all downhill for me here.
Mikki : I know. That's what, that was the best it's gonna get you guys. I'm sorry in advance, [00:15:00] because for more than a dozen homeowners in upstate New York, that's exactly what happened. They trusted a contractor, paid tens of thousands of dollars, and watched as their project either stalled, collapsed, or we're never built at all.
And while they were losing their savings, the people they trusted were spending that money on wait for it. Casino trips, luxury cars, um, and a lifestyle that had nothing at all to do with construction. I think I also read in one of the, one of the reports that some of the money was spent on a monster truck.
And I'm just, I'm like, what? Like you mean a truck with big tires? No ob, literal monster truck. And I was like, that tracks.
Jessica: That's crazy. So welcome back to Chick in Construction where we tell real construction horror stories so you don't end up living one
Mikki : facts. Um, I guess we can go through the whole script and just see how this goes.
Um, just for fuzzies. Let's try it. [00:16:00] So I'm Mickey. I've been in construction for over 20 years
Jessica: and I'm Jess. I'm asking the questions homeowners wish they asked sooner,
Mikki : which obviously is, is a, a very clutch. Point in this podcast. Mm-hmm. Um, and today's story this is not just bad construction, it's straight up fraud.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki : You wanna start this next phase? Sure. It doesn't have a name on it. It
Jessica: doesn't until we don't, we don't, we just look at each other like, you wanna do, you wanna, we're doing the best we can. Don't come for us. Or do, or do as, it's fine. It's spicy. Make it good. Make it a good one. So between 2019 and 2023, a couple in upstate New York built what looked like a legitimate construction business.
They offered excavation, home building, site work and renovations.
Mikki : Those are such wild degrees of like, wait, wait, okay. You go from excavation to home building.
Jessica: Because excavation is like
Mikki : dirt. It's like clearing the land dirt. [00:17:00] It's land work. Yeah. It's like when you buy a lot that has all the trees on it, you hire an excavation company.
'cause they'll come in, they'll take down the trees, they'll clear the land. Yeah. They're not
Jessica: the ones that then go and build your house.
Mikki : Absolutely not. And it's the same thing with site work. That's basically what excavation is. Is site work. Site work and renovations that that goes together like wine and whiskey.
Absolutely not. It's
Jessica: what's wrong with wine and whiskey
Mikki : to together. You gonna mix a little wine and whiskey?
Jessica: Oh no, not,
Mikki : I've never tried it, but it seems like a bad time.
Jessica: I be like, you would have
Mikki : some wine and then have
Jessica: some whiskey.
Mikki : I've done home renovations and site work that's, I've never done done those together either.
Jessica: Like no, it just. I was just confused. I was like, why would you want somebody building your house or renovating your house that is going to go out and clear the trees and dig a hole? Like
Mikki : I mean, I just to skip to the end, like, because they weren't
Jessica: doing anything.
Mikki : Home
Jessica: builders, they don't belong doing any of that.
Mikki : They, they ended up [00:18:00] in jail. That's how So, um,
Jessica: spoiler alert. Yeah. So they advertised online. They had contracts, they had references. They took on project after project, but behind the scenes prosecutors say this wasn't a construction business, it was a scheme to defraud homeowners out of more than $1.5 million.
Mikki : Y'all, y'all, I can't. I mean, this compared to some of the other stories where it was like five and $6 million. I'm like, well that's less. But I'm just like, why five?
Jessica: It's with so much money
Mikki : of like, the thing I think is important for like everybody to remember is this is $1.5 million of like hardworking everyday people's monies.
Mm-hmm. It's not like they're getting 1.5 mil out Jeff Bezos, who just probably wipes his butt with a million dollar bill and he is like, Hmm, put it in the trash. No, that's not who they're scamming $1.5 million out of. They're scamming out of teachers and seniors and people who are save up to [00:19:00] do these renovations and to, to hire people for this work, which drives me na nuts.
So. Here's what would happen. They would get hired for a job. Then they would request a large upfront deposit, listen, that is bold and underlined. Mm-hmm. In this script for a reason. Um, at once. And once they got the money, everything would start to fall apart. Sometimes the work never started. Other times the job would begin and then be abandoned.
And in some cases the work was so poorly done, it had to be completely redone.
Jessica: So no matter what the homeowner lost.
Mikki : Exactly. And when homeowners ask for refunds. They were refused.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki : They were refused. I'm like, listen, I'm gonna come and get it either. Yeah. Either in cash payments or blood donations.
Morgan, your choice Morgan, I'm gonna get that plasma one way or another, sir. But then again mm-hmm. So I'm feral.
Jessica: Yeah. Wait, I wanna get back to something you [00:20:00] mentioned they had multiple company names.
Mikki : Ah, yes. So, um,
Jessica: big red flag.
Mikki : Huge red flag
Jessica: flying around.
Mikki : And I, I, we have talked about this so many times and I wanna be really clear about it.
This is not a sign of a growing business. I think we talked about this in the last podcast, where it was kind of like perceived as like, oh, if they have multiple businesses, it's because they're doing really well. No, I mean, as we've discussed, you can have, I have multiple businesses in different industries, consulting the podcast, my drywall and paint company.
We have multiple companies. But it's not, I don't have four different drywall companies. That is a red flag. Don't, I don't have four different company names that are all trying to do the same thing. Mm-hmm. That's not a growing company. That's a company that is evading. Bills that have not been paid it, they're mm-hmm.
It's like they're, it's just a one way of like, it's a form of bankruptcy.
Jessica: You bankruptcy.
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. You hundred pick up one company so you don't have to pay. Yeah.
Mikki : And so they operated under several different names, [00:21:00] including McCluen Son's Construction, McClaren's Son Excavation, JM Excavation, and Demolition, JM Construction.
Um, the slight variations of the names is honestly a huge red flag. That is somebody who, they don't wanna spend the money to redo their branding. So they, but, but they can't operate under this name anymore. 'cause either they have judgments against them or there are so many bad reviews online about them, but, so they just tweak the company name.
So it's a little bit different. But they can still use all of their marketing and stuff. 'cause listen, they put time in time into that and your money
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki : Into that marketing. So they gotta make it work.
Jessica: Yep. So it's the same company. It's not really rebranding,
Mikki : right.
Jessica: It's just. So they, they'll burn one name.
Mikki : Exactly.
Jessica: And then they pop up with a different one and it's like, oh, look at us.
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica: We're so great.
Mikki : And it's because they do bad work. Mm-hmm. And they leave jobs unfinished, their reviews start showing up, reputation drops, and instead of fixing it, they just [00:22:00] change the name and keep going. Mm-hmm. Which makes me crazy.
So if you see a contractor with multiple business names with slight variations of the same name and no clear business history, that is not normal. And it's a problem. And we've talked about this a lot. That's definitely something important when you're looking at hiring people, searching through the Secretary of State for whatever state you're in.
Mm-hmm. They're the, the owner's name. And I think this is another thing where it could potentially give you some information. If somebody gives you a company name and they give you their name and they say they're the owner, but then you look up their name and there's no company associated with it. Red flag because either they don't have a registered company or whoever, whatever company name they gave you, it's not theirs.
And so that's a big thing, especially if you know somebody's trying to build trust with you 'cause they're gonna renovate your home
Jessica: or build a home,
Mikki : you know? I mean, you want them to be telling you the truth from the get go. Mm-hmm. And this is where checking these things is really important. [00:23:00] How to protect yourself is don't trust the company, search the person's name.
Mm-hmm. Um, secretary of State records, Google and court filings. And so one thing that I realized you can use, I don't know about Chad GBT, but I've been trying to use Claude a little bit more. Mm-hmm. And Claude will search court filings for you.
Jessica: Nice.
Mikki : So you, so if you were to go on, you know, AI and say, Hey, check the court filings for this name or, and variations of this name or this company name and variations of this company name.
It pulled up a ton of research for one of the podcasts that we have coming up and I was like, wow, that, that is a time saver. So a lot, 'cause a lot of people freak out 'cause they're like, how am I supposed to check that? Just at, just at Claude.
Jessica: Just Claude's like, I got you. I gonna save you so much time.
And now you also said that they had fake references.
Mikki : Mm.
Jessica: So what happened there?
Mikki : Okay, so I've talked about this a couple of times. Um. And, and I think, think like in this story specifically, it's where fraud becomes [00:24:00] intentional deception. When homeowners ask, can I ask to speak to some of your past clients?
And I have just known in my soul that this is something that a shady contractor would do. And so it's why I've kind of talked several times about how referrals are great, but again, nobody's gonna give you the name of somebody they had a bad experience with. No. They're not gonna give you the name of somebody who is unhappy with the work that you get, you did.
Like, they're gonna give you the best job they ever did, and the people that are so happy. And a lot of things could have changed from that point to that. So in this case, they were given a reference to somebody who sounded real, somebody who assured them that they did great work, but this person wasn't a client, it was his wife.
Like, oh, oh. It's funny when you like say something like, I bet people do this, and then you get a story and that's exactly what, what they did. Exactly what people do. You're like, I'm a psychic. I just want you guys all to know.
Jessica: I mean, and they could have, I mean, [00:25:00] this person used their wife, but like, I'm sure there's people that have used their brother, their nephew, oh, their cousin, their uncle, their aunt, their best friend.
Like you don't know how they're related to them. Right. Or if they actually did what I'm, and like there's not really a way to check that either.
Mikki : Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing is there's references are a really hard one to go by. Mm-hmm. Because like, I mean, like I just said, nobody's gonna give you the, refer the name of somebody who had a really terrible experience with them.
They're only gonna give you the best of the best. Like we know this. Contractor, and I use that word very loosely. There's
Jessica: air quotes
Mikki : for those of you listening, this person who pretends to be a contractor, and this person could not give you a single reference of somebody that she actually did work with, because every single person that she's actually done work with no longer speaks to her.
Like they're not, she's not allowed on their property anymore. It's that bad. So if you get, it's like, and I, I know that if this person [00:26:00] gives another person a reference, it's gonna be a friend. There's no way, because I've, every single story she was involved with ended in, and then they told me never to come back.
So it's like, oh, okay, so you're the whole problem. All right, cool.
Jessica: The whole problem.
Mikki : So that's, that is my biggest
Jessica: mm-hmm.
Mikki : Thing with references is they're, it's just unrealistic. Like I think reviews are. A better source. We all know that there's an occasional cray cray that will have really un unrealistic expectations.
Mm-hmm. And left a crazy review because they didn't understand how construction works and that maybe that general contractor didn't do a great job communicating with them. So you have to kind of take ex like reviews kind of with a grain of salt. But I will say when there are multiple reviews and they all say the same thing.
That's how, you know, okay, these people, they're, they're not, they're not a good company to work with. No. And that's why, I don't know, for, for anybody [00:27:00] watching, it's really important to leave reviews, especially when you have a, a really good or a really bad experience, because the re redundancy and the repeating of the same thing over and over again.
The, when I see that, I'm like, okay, this is for real. But when I see like one person say something crazy, I'm like, all right, this is just somebody who had like, unrealistic, right, unrealistic expectations. But like for the, the general contractor exam prep course that I'm currently suing, because they just never sent the books out to the person who is taking it.
And now I have to refund, get the money back because this is my life. When I went to their Google page to leave a bad review, I went and it was like every single review was, I never got my books. I never got my books, I never got my books. They won't respond to me. Oh my God. And I was like, damnit, if I had just read the Google reviews,
Jessica: if you had just done your research,
Mikki : if I literally did the thing that I'm just telling you guys to do right now, to be fair, I, I used them for mine.
Jessica: Oh.
Mikki : What I didn't know was the guy who taught my class, who owned it, [00:28:00] retired. And he sold it to this guy and the guy just ruined the entire thing. Like he completely just dropped everything this guy built, which was really sad. 'cause the dude was legit, like the guy, he, his name was like Carl or something.
And I was, he was just, he knew all the things about all the things. It was so cool. He was great. So I got that experience. This other person got the, sorry, you're never getting your books and it's gonna cost you $4,000.
Jessica: Better luck next time.
Mikki : Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki : Oh my gosh. Reviews matter. So, and I wanna say this clearly, um, it's completely unfair that homeowners now have to question whether references are real.
And I, I feel that in my soul, um, you should be able to trust that. But unfortunately you can't assume that anymore. Um. So how to verify real references, ask for multiple references. Not one, not two, at least three to five. But again,
Jessica: if you got a large family, like there's your three to five,
Mikki : I'm like, that's what I'm saying.
[00:29:00] I'm just like, I don't know that references are the thing, the hill that we wanna die on. The one thing I will say is go to an active job site. So I would ask for an address. I would not tell them when I was going. Mm-hmm. And I would go to the active job site and I would look at the, the condition of the job site.
I would look at the work that they're doing. I would, I would try to talk to homeowners if they were available. Be like, Hey, how's your experience going? So I think more than asking for references, the real move is I wanna, I want the addresses of two or three jobs that you're on right now, so that I can go look at them at whatever time I'm gonna go look at them.
D and, and here's the thing is that they're gonna, they're gonna tell you all the reasons why they need to be there. No, if you can't give me the address and allow me to go view your work independently of you being there, then I don't wanna work with you. And I know there's gonna be general contractors that are gonna be like, this is the worst advice you've ever said on this show.
Here's the thing, wear a freaking [00:30:00] hard hat and some closed toe shoes, but. They need to be allowed to go onto these jobs and to see this work because unfortunately so many people get screwed over by shady contractors.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki : That they need to have access to be able to go and see. And if you don't wanna give that, I'm saying, I'm throwing a flag on the play.
Jessica: Let's say if it was a renovation or they going into someone else's house, let '
Mikki : em go to the door
Jessica: and peek in.
Mikki : Yeah. Be like, Hey, alright. I think, listen, if I was having a renovation in my home, whether it was going amazing or whether it was going badly and, and they're trying to work with another person in the community.
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Let them come to my door. When somebody came, my door was like, Hey, how's this renovation going? These people are bidding a project for me and I'm just trying to get a feel for, you know.
Jessica: Oh yeah.
Mikki : If they're a good. I would be jubilant to be able to like tell you what kind of the kind of experience that I'm having.
Jessica: Right?
Mikki : So I feel like that is, if you're going to hang your hat on a reference, that's the only [00:31:00] reference that you should be like you going out unprompted without the general contractor there, without them knowing when you're showing up to be able to put your eyes on the job site. 'cause that's where you can see, okay, do they clean up after themselves?
Mm-hmm. Like is the level of mess that they've left something I could be comfortable with is, you know, is the homeowner happy with the work that they're doing? Does it look clean and tidy? Does it look like they take care of things or does it look like, you know, a wrecking ball came through here. Like, you know, some of
my guys do.
So the money, um. The money is wild. It didn't go into building homes. Instead, investigators found that it was used for casino trips, luxury vehicles, paying the rent and personal spending.
Jessica: Love that for them.
Mikki : I know like, oh, casino trips. Cool.
Jessica: More than a dozen homeowners were affected.
The losses totaled over $1.5 million. Some victims lost over $80,000, had [00:32:00] homes left unfinished, and had to start over with new contractors. That's absolutely insane. I feel like all of 'em would've had to start over with new contractors if they're not doing anything.
Mikki : Yeah. They all, they all fell into that last category.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki : So this became a criminal case. Eventually, law enforcement stepped in, they were charged with grand larceny and a, the scheme to defraud. Mm-hmm. Both of them pled guilty. So just when I say both of them, the husband who was the, the shady general contractor. And in this case, the wife who be lying about being a a client and pretending to be a reference, she went to jail too.
So just if you're out there and you're thinking about schemes, just understand my, my Fair Lady. Now, it might not be for as long as he's going, but you're gonna do time. '
Jessica: cause you knew about it. You were actively helping him defraud the homeowners.
Mikki : Yeah. Freaking accessory after the fact. I don't even know what that means, but it sounds good.
Jessica: So how did, how did this all work? Like [00:33:00] how did they get so many homeowners to
Mikki : like, well, before we switch to that,
Jessica: oh, sorry.
Mikki : Know this, that John got sentenced to five to 15 years in prison, and his lovely wife got, um, I think she got six months in jail plus like five years probation. So she got off with like a lesser
Jessica: sentence.
Sentence. I,
Mikki : but like, listen, you win the clink for six months, you're thinking about your life choices real hard. So how did it happen
Jessica: on, on your permanent record? Like right now, you're, you're alon
Mikki : now you're a
Jessica: criminal.
Mikki : You're a Fein.
Okay.
You should have to register. You should have to register when you're a,
Jessica: well, I mean
Mikki : a construction felon, when you go to apply for a job and it has that little box, like,
Jessica: yeah.
Now you have to check. Yes.
Mikki : Now everybody at Harris Teeter knows you are in the clink. So just asked how it happened.
Jessica: Yes.
Mikki : And the thing is, it, it, what what everybody that got scammed over what they said over and over again was that it looked really legitimate. That the contracts were really [00:34:00] good. That they were really comprehensive.
Um, they had references AKA, his wife. Mm-hmm. And they had a business name. Now I'm just gonna go ahead and stop you right there. Having a business name does not, is, we're not gonna put that on the list of things that are legitimate.
Default_2026-04-20_1: No.
Mikki : Um,
Jessica: or a truck with their name on it.
Mikki : No truck. And a truck. Because they have, they have labeling on their, on their vehicle.
Like absolutely not. That's not what makes a company legitimate. And I know you're thinking, oh, who would think that's legit? You would be surprised. A lot of people are like, oh, well they had business cars and they had a website and they had branding and because they looked
Jessica: good on social media.
Mikki : Right.
And the thing is like, to be fair, back in the day. Scammers didn't go that far to, to scam people. Mm-hmm. Like, they didn't have to put that much effort in. But now in the days of the internet, if you don't have a website, a lot of homeowners think that that's suspect. Mm-hmm. So if you're, you're really committed to the scam and you're down for the fraud, you go through the, the extra [00:35:00] steps of having, you know.
A logo made on some website, you go ahead and pay 50 bucks to have a website thrown together for you. You take some time to make some social media posts because you know that that's what people are gonna look at and that will maximize how much money you can screw out of them. So I like, what's funny is in what we do, like in drywall specifically, there are so few companies in my arena that have websites and stuff that whenever people look up my company, they're like, oh, this is a huge operation.
They have a website. And I'm like, I'm no, I'm just, I'm a millennial. We, that's just what we do because that's what we, we do. We just have websites. 'cause that's, I grew up, like, I grew up coding websites, so it's like, of course I'm gonna put a little website together for my little drywall company. It's not
Jessica: a little drywall company.
No, it's, it was at one
Mikki : point it was, it was a, it was a little baby, but now it's all grown up and it's angry. Let me tell you. Drywall company is angry. All [00:36:00] right, so we're gonna go through the red flags. Do you wanna start with the first one?
Jessica: Sure. They had multiple business names.
Mikki : Yep. We have talked about this.
Um,
Jessica: okay. This burn and reset patterning. Yeah. We're not here for it.
Mikki : Not in the, and it's, I'm not gonna lie, I've, we've not come across a single whole story that had multiple business names that did not end in a scam. Mm-hmm. Or did not end in something going badly for the homeowner. So unfortunately, I'm sure there are some legitimate reasons why people like do this.
Like
Jessica: if two, if there was partners in a business Yeah. And they split.
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica: And then, you know, they, they worked so hard to build up that name. Yeah. Then maybe,
Mikki : yeah,
Jessica: there's a reason there, but I mean, that's not, and I thought
Mikki : stories of people being like a. Because especially, I don't know, in every state, right.
But in North Carolina, every year you have to file an annual report on the, the company that you have. So my, my drywall business is [00:37:00] incorporated, my con um, consulting business and the podcast, they're all LLCs. Doesn't matter whether it's an LLC or an, or an incorporation. Mm-hmm. Every year you have to go into the Secretary of State and file and pay this fee.
'cause they
Jessica: want their money.
Mikki : Yeah. 'cause they're like, cha-ching ching. Yep. We ain't giving you nothing but this piece of paper, but renew it every year or they will dissolve your company. Mm-hmm. And to be fair to. You don't have to have a business late or a business major to, to start a business. You just have to have an idea.
And a hope. And a dream and $75 to pay for your LLC in North Carolina Secretary of State. But you might not know that this has to be renewed. Renewed every year. I
Jessica: don't know how you don't know. 'cause I got like 19,000 emails,
Mikki : 19,000 emails. I
Jessica: even after I did it, yes. I still get emails to remind me to
Mikki : get 19,000 emails
Jessica: and I was like, oh my God, did I same?
Did I not do it
Mikki : every year? The same thing happens to me.
Jessica: It's awful.
Mikki : But I don't know. Let's just, let's just say, you know, [00:38:00] you're not great at check your email. Let's say you're Hector and you're like, email. What's that? Okay.
Jessica: Why You used a fake email address
Mikki : or Yeah. You used your burner email account.
Like you, you not using that email. You're not checking that.
Jessica: Mm.
Mikki : It happens and it is really hard to get your company reinstated. And when I say hard, it's just a long process.
Jessica: Lot of money and money.
Mikki : It's, I don't even know if it's that much money. I like you pay a fee, whatever you,
Jessica: so somebody,
Mikki : oh, the that
Jessica: I.
A person that we know that has two, two very similar companies. Was it
Mikki : a lot of money or maybe she's just broke.
Jessica: Maybe. But it cost, it could be
Mikki : both.
Jessica: Um, they told me that it cost more to reinstate than it did to just
Mikki : Yes, that is true. 'cause you have to pay a fee and then, and then you have to pay the fee that you missed.
So it's like a double fee.
Jessica: It's a double thing.
Mikki : So if you broke, you know, it, it makes, sometimes it makes more sense. Which, which
Jessica: means a company's not doing good.
Mikki : Right.
Jessica: Which means that you're probably a shady contractor.
Mikki : You see what I'm saying? You see how this, I'm trying to, I'm trying to [00:39:00] make, it's all going.
It easier for people who've, who've had a company dissolve, but at the end of the day, it's 'cause one, they don't know what they're doing. Two, they don't have the money to fix what they did wrong. Mm-hmm. And three, that's a red flag. They don't have money and they don't know what they're doing. And that's something that you need to look out for.
Mm-hmm. It's something that I learned along the way, but when I've realized, okay, whoopsy, I didn't file that report. My company got. Dissolved. I just spent the money to reinstate my company because I was doing well and I could afford that. Mm-hmm. And you know, it's not a flex guys, like it's, if you don't have the, the, the $250 to reinstate your company, you probably shouldn't be doing construction jobs.
But what do I know? I'm just a drywall contractor. The other one is large upfront. We're we're switching back to red flags.
Jessica: Red flags,
Mikki : large upfront deposits. I will die on this hill. It took me a long time to come to a number that I'm like, this is the max amount of number I'm gonna tell people to pay in deposits.[00:40:00]
And it is 20%. You will pay no more than 20% in a deposit. And if the general contractor says that's a deal breaker. Walk, don't run because the only general contractors
Jessica: you run don't walk.
Mikki : Yes. But I said it so confidently
Jessica: run. I it. I was like, wait a minute.
Mikki : Run. Don't walk or, or walk. Just go at talk, but do it quick.
Okay. Whatever that looks like for you. Um. Because I like, we've had general contractors on this show that said they will not take less than a 50% deposit. And I was immediately like we should have interviewed you more strictly about coming on this show because absolutely not. If they don't have the money to do, to accept a 20% deposit, again, they're not doing well.
20% deposit for the very responsible contractors that we have had on the show, that was all they were asking. Every single one was at that 20% mark. Mm-hmm. [00:41:00] So anything above 20% is a, is a hard stop. It is an absolute no. 'cause it shows that they do not have the money. And why do they need to collect that much money upfront?
Because they're going to pay somebody from another job. Mm-hmm. And they're using your money. They're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I don't know where that phrase come from, but I use it all the time. The Bible. The Bible. Jesus said that Jesus said, stop, be Robin Peter to pay Paul. I dunno
Jessica: if it was
Mikki : John. John
Jessica: and now we
Mikki : know was going through my head of like, what are the other guys' names?
John? He was one of them. There's a Luke in there. Okay. Yeah. Think of the whitest white dude names John. Paul. Peter. There's a Matthew in there.
Jessica: Oh my God.
Mikki : Is there a mark?
Jessica: Oh yeah.
Mikki : Okay. Listen,
Jessica: it's been
Mikki : a while guys. I like to talk about, I like to talk about the jc, but I don't spend nearly as much time at church as I should.
Jessica: Um, so no progress after payment. So if a job stalls [00:42:00] or they disappear, like that is a, a red flag too. So if you're giving them a huge deposit and then they ain't showing up and doing any work.
Mikki : Yeah.
Jessica: Like don't give them more money.
Mikki : Yeah. And the last one is poor workmanship and, and I think that. It was so interesting.
I was talking to somebody and they were telling me how they had their backsplash done and they, they had the backsplash done and they came back the next day and they had taken half of the backsplash down and the guy was like, what? What are you doing? And he's like, oh, the grout lines didn't look right, so we're just fixing it.
And I was like, let me get this straight. You didn't even have to say anything. Like they saw the tile and were not happy with it. Mm-hmm. And without even speaking to you or charging you, how many have we times talked about that without charging you or saying it? They just took the tile down and redid it and he was like, yeah, what is that unusual?
And I was like, quite, quite nine times a
Jessica: time, but I'm like, I want that guy's number.
Mikki : Right. I was like, so, um, did you get his like, can I get his contact information? Because like that is such a rare thing. Not only would do people wait until you [00:43:00] notice it, but then if you want it fixed, they're like, oh, well it'll be $1,200 to fix it.
Absolutely not. You didn't do it right. And like, listen, I'm not saying that we are gonna. Be nitpicky, but you are, it's your money. And if you're not happy with the product, then you need to speak up and you need to say something about it and it, it should not cost you more money to make improper work look good.
Mm-hmm. And so that is a huge, like work poor workmanship, apparently. I was kind of doing this story was a little tricky because there wasn. There were a few references, but there wasn't as much about this. There was like a couple talk, like talking points about it. Mm-hmm. But there wasn't like real in-depth interviews with the vi the victims in this case.
Um, so I'm, I was just like, like, tell me more about the poor workmanship. I couldn't find a bunch on it, but apparently there were people that said that the work was so bad that they literally just had to have it ripped out
Jessica: and read that. I'm sure that they didn't pass a single inspection.
Mikki : I don't know that they even got to that point, applied for a single permit and had a single [00:44:00] inspection.
Jessica: So you get the van General contractor, they can't apply for the permit.
Default_2026-04-20_1: Exactly.
Jessica: So probably that that's a red flag too, people
Mikki : Indeed, indeed.
Jessica: I'm learning so much.
Mikki : Oh, she is. She's gonna be a GC one day. She's like, absolutely not. Not.
Jessica: Nope. No. Not unless you know this doesn't take off. And then I'm gonna have to rethink my career choices.
Mikki : Right. If don't like and subscribe, Jess is gonna have to get her GC license.
Jessica: Oh my God. Could you imagine?
Mikki : I think it. I think you'd
Default_2026-04-20_1: be
Jessica: good. I mean, I could probably do it. She'd be great. I'm,
Mikki : she's great. She used to be great at it. She has so many side hustles. She, she just wrap it into her many, many jobs.
Jessica: All my jobs.
Mikki : So how do you protect yourself? Mm-hmm. We have, this is, this is why we're here.
This is the meat of it. And obviously the step one is to verify licenses every time. So if your state, and here's the move, I think, right? Because I, I don't know if I told you about this. I did a, I, I was asked by the Home Builders Association to be [00:45:00] on this panel. Oh, nice. For like seniors, um, like, and it was like
Jessica: senior citizens.
Mikki : Senior citizens.
Jessica: Okay.
Mikki : It was so funny 'cause it was for senior citizens, but there was this woman here and I mentioned it being for senior citizens and she goes, I am not a senior citizen. And I was like, okay. I don't know ma'am. You're older than me. And I feel like a senior Senior. My senior citizen. My senior senior.
But okay. But, so I went and I was like the only person on the panel. They like. Really had this level of experience. And I kept just like saying all this stuff and it was like, verify license. And they were like, how do we do that? And I'm like, I literally gave them the website and I was like, this is, but one thing that I realized when I was talking to all them is that I think the step one is to research what the laws are in your state.
So there are plenty of states that don't have general contractor licenses. Like I, well I say plenty of states, I just know of the one which is Texas. Texas, wild in the Streets. Mm-hmm. It's the wild west out there. Um, [00:46:00] but. Researching. Okay. Is, is there a license required in my state? Oh, there is. What are the requirements for the license?
What are the requirements for, for the type of project that you wanna do? And just taking a little extra time to start off with that level of understanding. That way you're not playing catch up. Mm-hmm. So if you start there instead of like, start on Pinterest and starting on, you know, Facebook and asking friends for references, if you start with, okay, I wanna do this project, do I need a licensed general contractor?
What are the requirements? What triggers the, the need of somebody to have a license? So in North Carolina, if a project goes above $40,000, and that is total cost, not just cost of materials or cost of labor, total cost of the project. If it goes above $40,000, you need to have a general contractor. But needing to have a general contractor doesn't mean.
If it doesn't fit, fit the general contractor [00:47:00] criteria, that doesn't necessarily mean you don't need inspections. And a lot of tradespeople will try to tell you, oh no, you don't need to be a GC for this. So we don't need a license. Or we don't, we don't need an inspection. Mm-hmm. No, that's actually not how that works.
And how you will know if somebody is giving you bad information is to know the right answer before you ask it. So if, if you say to somebody, do you have a license? And they say to you, oh no, I don't need to have one. But you've already done the research and you know they do, they just eliminated themselves.
And that takes. It takes like easy work because I think that the more you know this the steps to protect yourself, the more we add onto them mm-hmm. They seem over really overwhelming. So I think the first step is know what it requires in your state, in your town, in your, your local government. What are, what are the rules?
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki : When do they kick in? What are the requirements for the specific project that you're trying to do?
Jessica: And you're gonna wanna research when you are looking up the license and stuff, you wanna research the [00:48:00] person, not the business. Yeah.
Mikki : To make sure, and you can do both. Mm-hmm. But like, especially like huge red flag is if you, if you research a, a company and then you go to see who owns it and the person who has sold you these services is not listed as the owner.
That's a red flag. But so many times people. Are very confident, like when they come to like sell you on their scam. Like I'm, I'm like, Bernie Madoff was very confident and he screwed people outta bajillions of dollars. Mm-hmm. So confidence isn't necessarily like, oh, they're so confident they couldn't be lying to me.
No, they probably are. That level of confidence is almost a red flag. So just because somebody seems legit doesn't mean you don't do your research. Mm-hmm. Um, so searching that person, their name, also the company name, the com, the together and seeing like is the math, math thing. Mm-hmm. Like that is it all, is it all coming together?
Jessica: Yeah. Now is it also a red flag? And I'm not sure, but I [00:49:00] know that people can have a qualifier for their license. So when you look up the person's name
Mikki : Yeah. The, I think it depends. Like, I know a bun, like one of our, our largest client is. Has multiple qualifiers, so, okay. So depending on the company, like I know a company, a local GC here, and one of the, one of my really good friends is their qualifier.
Now you're never gonna see her out on a job site like she's a designer. Mm-hmm. She's, but she was qualified enough to go and pass her general contractor exam. And so she, herself is the qualifier on that company. So, so I think it really depends. It does, in some cases, it signifies, okay, this person doesn't have enough experience to pass the test.
Mm-hmm. But in some cases it's like, we have a bigger company, so we have multiple people qualifying it in case somebody leaves. 'cause like if my friend Kathy, who qualifies this general contractor company and they're like, [00:50:00] award-winning and
Jessica: Right.
Mikki : They're, they're doing the Lord's work out here. Um. If she were to leave, they would immediately have to replace her, like get another qualifier.
Mm-hmm. So they keep multiple people on staff that are qualifiers for their company. Got it. And like one, one of my general contractors, the owner of the company was the qualifier for many, many years. And then he was like retiring, so he was like I'm gonna let, I'll let somebody else qualify it. 'cause like to be a licensed general contractor in North Carolina, you have to do continuing education.
Mm-hmm. You have to work the license every year. Like there's work that you have to do to get that done. And he was like, I'm on my way out the door. So he lets somebody else qualify the company, the guy who is the project manager. Okay. So I think it's definitely something that you ask about. Like, Hey, why, why?
Is
Jessica: like, who is this person
Mikki : that's actually qualifying how I never met the person qualifying the company? Mm-hmm. And that is important. You wanna know all the players in the game. Because here's the thing, if that person who you're dealing with is not [00:51:00] the qualifier on the license, it means that they're not the ones that are gonna get held accountable.
So if you're not happy with their work and you go and report them, and you know, I don't know. You live in a state where the general contracting licensing board actually punishes contractors. Yeah. That's not really how it works here, but,
Jessica: we're getting there.
Mikki : That per, we're trying, I'm like, are we still, we're starting a lobbying group.
We might, but those are the, that person who qualifies it, that's the person who may get in trouble. Mm-hmm. So you wanna know who they are and at least like, hey are like, have their contact information. Mm-hmm. That one episode we did like a million years ago, the builder of the year one.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki : That happened where she was dealing with not the, not the person who was actually on the license.
And once she got the guy who was on the license involved. Mm-hmm. Oh, her entire experience changed. I actually saw her a couple weeks ago and I was like, Hey, how did it all end? And she's like, oh, amazing. Like, everything turned out really well because she stopped messing around with homeboy [00:52:00] who his name wasn't on the license.
Mm. And started dealing with the guy who was gonna get the heat. Yeah. And dude, it changed that whole situation around. So it does matter and it's important for you guys to look into it.
. Oh, you guys, and I'm gonna like, listen, I'm not, I don't wanna say that there's not degrees of difficulty here because in, in, on one sense, like, how are you supposed to know how much things are, are, are supposed to cost?
Like, if somebody comes in and says, Hey, you know, I'm billing 80% of the contract, but 50% of the work is done, I think that is an easier way to track. Payments like that, that's how can we kind of work? I, I, when I bill, so it's, it's a percentage of completion. So I say, okay, we've done this whole floor of drywall.
It's a four story. Let's just like, let's just joke and say it's a hundred thousand dollars contract. Mm-hmm. That's, it would be a million dollars, but that's a lot of zeros. Okay. Our
Jessica: math has to be
Mikki : easier and it's Monday, so we gotta dumb [00:53:00] down the math. So let's just say it's a hundred thousand dollars. So we've got $25,000 per floor.
So if I can only bill once a month, I bill until the end of that month. And it's 25%. And it's, I think for a homeowner, working through it in percentages is the easiest way to track payments. Mm-hmm. So if you know, you've still got drywall and paint and finishes and all these things left and they're trying to bill you at 80% of the total completion of the job, that's a hard no.
And I think completion like percentages is an easier way to track that. So that's how I kind of, 'cause like, how are you guys supposed to know how much Windows cost? Well that's not your job to know how much Windows cost, but if them billing the windows puts them at 80% and they're still in framing.
Absolutely not. So it's really about tracking it in like, okay, mm-hmm. How much more has to happen until we're done? Does that number match with the number that they've billed? I think that's the easiest way. Yeah. But you guys tell me like I really, [00:54:00] as a homeowner, if you've experienced this and like tracking the billing, I would love to hear your experience because obviously we wanna share.
As much as we can with everybody. But one of the ways that people get in the most trouble is they overpay.
Jessica: Right?
Mikki : And then once, like, listen, once
Jessica: they have
Mikki : the money, once these guys got the money, they go, they like, do you, you're not gonna see him again. And that, that's how every single story where somebody paid in advance or kind of, there was one story where the guy gave her the sad story about how this guy didn't pay her and he's gotta pay his guys, can you pay in full right now?
And she did. And he never came back.
Jessica: Nope. If someone cannot pay their guys right, do not.
Mikki : That's a red flag.
Jessica: Do not help them out.
Mikki : No. That
Jessica: is not your job. No. That is not your job at all.
Mikki : And the other thing is never rushing decisions. Mm. And it was really interesting. I had something similar happen to me recently and I thought to myself, oh, look at you trying to put like, pressure on me and make me feel like if I don't make this decision right now, [00:55:00] like I'm gonna be in danger.
And I was just, I, I, thanks to the podcast, I was like, wait a second. How dare you. And it's that like, listen, I'm not saying that there aren't very important things that need to happen where they're like, Hey, don't wait on this. Mm-hmm. But we have heard insane stories where there was genuine structural issues like Jake Beck's house Yeah.
In, out in Chatham County, um, where it was unsafe for him to live in. And he still lived in it for a little while. It didn't collapse in on them. Like obviously eventually he had to make that decision. But I say this because the urgency. Is not a real thing in construction. Mm-hmm. Some things are very urgent, but even in Jake Mul back's case where they were like, could your house collapse on you this week?
Probably not. Like what? Even in that case, there wasn't some catastrophic failure. So giving yourself 24 or [00:56:00] 48 hours to think about and spend time with decisions mm-hmm. Is really important. And this, in the case where this guy was putting pressure on me, I was like, listen, this isn't how I work. I take time.
I sit with the decisions before I make them. And if you're not okay with that, like you might as well just leave. And it stopped him. It, it almost interrupted his like
Jessica: spiel.
Mikki : His spiel. He was like, oh. I was like, it's just not how I work. Absolutely not. So I won't be making a decision today if you are here still because you think that more words,
Jessica: all the words
Mikki : like this, just throwing them at me and urgency and nonsense and shenanigans is gonna get me to make, it's not.
It's only gonna make me more mad, and then I'm gonna stick prime on you. And he's hungry. He's on a diet.
Jessica: He's not gonna attack anybody. He's gonna see the person and hide in the corner. My God.
Mikki : But he might scare you. I don't know. I don't know if,
Jessica: and he is scary. I don't know if, especially when
Mikki : he
Jessica: barks.
Mikki : Oh yeah.
PR barks with his soul. Mm-hmm. Like, and like he barks, like the ancestors are yelling in his head, [00:57:00] like he's just letting it out. He's, he's also 200 pounds. He's a big boy. So here's the thing, the story is scary because it looks normal at first. And that's the lesson. The biggest risks don't look like scams.
They look like real businesses. And when you take the time to follow the steps of checking into their licensing, checking into how many companies they have under their name. Mm-hmm. Really researching who, who's their qualifier. Not letting them push you into making decisions rapidly, not falling for the, I'm paying a 50% deposit.
Because here's the thing, right. Especially on the deposit thing. If you run in scams and somebody says, no, I'm not gonna give you 50%, they're gonna walk. Mm-hmm. And that's the best thing that could happen to you. If they don't have the money to run your job, it's not gonna go well.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki : It's like you have to have, like, I think one of the contractors that came on the show once said, homeowners need to have skin in the game.
And I, that will [00:58:00] live rent free just right here for the rest of my life. 'cause I'm like. Homeowners need to have skin. It's their house.
Jessica: We have all the skin in
Default_2026-04-20_1: the
Mikki : game. We have all the skin. You have zero skins. They have all the skins in the game. The game is full of their skins. Whatcha talking about right now?
Like they have to have skin in the, it's where they live.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki : That's outrageous. So this like, listen, I'm not saying that there aren't upfront costs. Of course there are. You should pay a deposit of no more than 20%. And if a general contractor says then we're not gonna work with you. Bye bye bye.
There's the door. This, this is like a swimming motion. I don't know what I'm doing, but it felt good and I like the sound my rings are making. Okay, there you go. Little A SMR moment
Jessica: for you. I know it's a little
Mikki : bit, so listen, we want to hear from you. If you have had a story like a wild in these streets.
Or a mildly wild in these streets, or a blood pressure inducing where like the, the vein in your forehead just [00:59:00] pops. We wanna know about it. And why do we wanna know? Because we wanna share your story so other people don't have to learn the hard way because what is learning the hard way? It's overrated.
So chicks in construction.com is where you can share your homeowner horror stories with us. It's just on the front page. You scroll down a little bit, you can share a little story. We'll keep you anonymous because as much as I would like to name names, Jess is having none of it,
Jessica: none of it,
Mikki : none of it. And
Jessica: none of it.
Mikki : She's like, we are not being sued. And I'm like, that's probably my, my legal bills are mounting. No, I'm just kidding. Well, they kind of were promising
I'm the whole problem. These are facts.
Jessica: So just where can they find us on the socials? So on Facebook, LinkedIn on Instagram is at Chickson Construction Podcast on TikTok is at Chickson Construction.
Mikki : Wonderful guys, and we'll see you next time.
Jessica: Bye
Mikki : bye.