Building Nightmares: The True Cost of Oversight

Hosts Mikki Paradis and Jessica Abreu of Chicks in Construction explain why permits matter and share a Denver homeowner horror story: Kevin and Noelle Collins hired Schwab Builders (run by Avi Schwab and involving his father Sean) for a major remodel of their 1950s bungalow, paying over $250,000 in installments. After demolition, progress stalled, communication turned vague, and they later discovered no permits were pulled and the contractor wasn’t properly licensed. A courtesy inspection led to a stop-work order and an engineering report declaring the home unsafe to occupy, forcing the family out after Thanksgiving 2023 and into two years of paying mortgage plus rent. Prosecutors found multiple victims, alleged over $1.1M in consumer fraud, and a jury convicted the builder on 47 felony counts; Avi was sentenced to 10 years. The BBB “Restoring Trust” program helped rebuild the Collins’ home for free, and the hosts highlight red flags like failing to verify licensing and skipping permits.

00:00 Permits Matter

00:13 Welcome and Submit Stories

01:42 Sneeze Talk Tangent

03:50 Tough Mudder Signup

08:59 Camping and Clean Freak

14:30 Back to the Horror Story

18:09 Denver Remodel Nightmare Setup

19:46 Schwab Builders Red Flags

20:55 Quarter Million Renovation Reality

22:22 Contracts and Payments

24:38 Demo and Dependency Trap

27:53 Delays and Ghosting

30:37 No Permits No License

35:30 Lawyer and Courtesy Inspection

37:45 Stop Work Unsafe Home

43:03 More Victims and Fraud

47:21 Trial Verdict and Sentencing

48:56 Restoring Trust and Red Flags

52:00 Final Takeaways and Outro

Submit your homeowner horror story:
www.chicksinconstruction.com

Follow on Social Media:
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www.facebook.com/chicksinconstructionpodcast
www.linkedin.com/company/chicksinconstructionpodcast
www.youtube.com/@ChicksInConstruction

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Creators and Guests

Host

Jessica Abreu

As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.

Host

Mikki Paradis

President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.

What is Chicks in Construction?

You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.

From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.

The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Abreu, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home.

After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.

Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/

45 Chicks in Construction
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Mikki: [00:00:00] Permits are not paperwork permits are a third party. Making sure that the person with the hammer actually knows what they're doing. I. Shocking. Well, hello and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Mickey Paradise, and this is my amazing co-host.

Jessica: Hi, I'm Jessica abr.

Mikki: And so listen, Peru, the setup goes like this. We have a homeowner horror story for you. Now, this one, we did some research and found it ourselves. Um, but, but listen, but do we wanna share your story? We do, but the way to do that is you have to share it with us. Sadly, I do not have the telepathic abilities to just sense your story, which I wish I did because I would also sense a lot of other things.

I'll just be honest, I'm not. I'm not Right. Okay. I'm not on the right side of anything, so it's a good thing. I don't, but this did get weird. I'm gonna land it. Um, we just want you to write in your stories. That's what I was trying to get [00:01:00] to. If you, you

Jessica: can write your stories into chicks and construction.com.

Yes.

Mikki: Yes, you can.

Jessica: I

Mikki: help

Jessica: you land the plane.

Mikki: Thank you. Jesse was

Jessica: like, Jesus, Mickey.

Mikki: That's fair. That's fair. I get annoyed with myself. If you get annoyed with me, don't worry. I also get annoyed with me. Sometimes I watch the podcast and I'm like, okay, Mickey Land it already. Sorry guys. But yeah, so the entire podcast is really just based on people who have had really bad experience with contractors.

When you guys share your stories, then we can help share that with others so that people can learn from your mistakes, because learning the hard way is overrated. Overrated. So. That's really important. You can do [e-mail]. We would love to like, like build up a little cache of your homeowner horror stories.

Joe

Jessica: Bless. Sed. Bless you, Joe. I'm like, I can't ignore it.

Mikki: That was a big one.

Pick it up if you guys would've been cool.

Jessica: No, ever. You know us.

Mikki: When are we cool?

Just like, just sneeze.

Jessica: No, she said it. I said, bless you.

Mikki: She did because

Jessica: she, I was the polite one.

Mikki: [00:02:00] You're the appropriate one. In this relationship, Jess is always the appropriate one.

She's polite too. But I do appreciate that you sneezed with your whole chest. Um, this is a topic of conversation in our house because me and Hector sneeze with our souls. Mm-hmm. But Alyssa, our niece who lives with us sneezes like this. K.

That that's the most, and me and Hector will judge her very harshly for this. We're like, what? I remember that first time it

Jessica: happened. How does that help get any of it

Mikki: right

Jessica: to move?

Mikki: Hector goes, what was that? He was, and like mind you, you guys, Hector's like the most gentle, like non-judgmental person. I'm always the jerk, like I'm the jerk.

He's not. This time he came right out the gate. I'm like, Hector, are you in your villain era? Because my God, today, he goes, what was that? And she goes, I sneeze. He goes, that was not a sneeze. He goes,

Jessica: I'm sorry ma'am.

Mikki: You need to learn to sneeze with your whole soul, [00:03:00] Alyssa. You need to snee sneeze with your chest, and he'll not get off this.

So every time, every time she sneezes, he goes, what was that? She's like, can be traumatized. You know that that was me sneezing. And she's, well, what was funny is then we go. The Hector's nephew's house and he has a daughter around Alyssa's age, she's a little bit younger, and Alyssa sneezes in front of her and she goes, what was that?

And I was like, oh my God, it's genetic. So that's funny. I guess in our house we're big sneezes. That's why I appreciated Joe's big sneeze. At least he let it all out, you know? He

Jessica: didn't, he let it all out.

Mikki: Now he can't even edit this out 'cause it's just a part of the show now.

All.

Joe's like, Jesus. I didn't, why was this the show I had to sneeze on.

Poor Joe. Joe puts up with a lot of abuse.

Jessica: He does. So I did something this weekend.

Mikki: What did you do?

Jessica: Um, I got suckered into and signed up for,

Mikki: oh, a marathon.

Jessica: Nope. A tough mutter. [00:04:00] What if you know me? I hate getting dirty, like. I at my kid's softball tournament this weekend. Oh yeah. There was sand like, yeah.

Mikki: And this is, it's, it devil's work. It's the devil's work.

Jessica: It, there was just sand. It gets everywhere. Everywhere. And I was in flip flops because it was a hundred and something degree. Didn't something your toes, like My feet were just dirty all day long and I hated it. And at the end of the day, like I was just sweaty and dirty and I didn't even play softball.

I was just watching.

Mikki: I was a spectator. Too much.

Jessica: And I could not, I was angry and I could not wait to get home and shower, like I sent my kids home with my husband so that he could go get them dinner. And you were like, he is like, I,

Mikki: I don't wanna see your faces until I'm clean. I

Jessica: need, I need a shower. I need a shower.

So bad. And like, I wasn't even really that, I mean, I was dirty, but it wasn't like disgusting. Yeah. So my friend Karen, yeah, she is like, will you do a tough murder with me? I was like, sure.

Mikki: And then you Googled what Googled what it was just did not take her own advice.

Jessica: I, I have heard of it. And I was like, mutt is in the name.

Mikki: Karen. [00:05:00] Be wild in these streets though.

Jessica: So if you don't know what a Tough Mudder is, it's. Literally being in like dirt, dirt, my other

Mikki: people's dirt puddles, nature's dirt

Jessica: while you're sweating, running and climbing

Mikki: and trying to avoid being murdered by

Jessica: and electrocuted other people. I was like,

Mikki: it's a lot.

Jessica: Um, how does one. Like, I will train for the running part. I will get my upper body to have some strength because right now I have, I have zero upper body strength. I cannot, I cannot pull myself up. I cannot do a pull up. I barely do a pushup,

Mikki: right? I'm full aware that like, if I'm ever like being chased or like have to fight off my attacker, I'm just, I'm gonna die.

I'm not gonna survive involved

Jessica: in the brain.

Mikki: Part of my problem is when I was in college, I took a self-defense class. Mm-hmm. So now obviously I was really feeling myself. The problem was, in order to remember the moves, I would say them as I did them and my sister,

Jessica: like there's this one called knife hand strike.

That's where you take like this part of your [00:06:00] Yeah. And you hit 'em in the trach.

Mikki: Yeah. And my sister's like making, the problem with this is you announced your move as you're doing it. And I was like, do I, they're

Jessica: gonna block it.

Mikki: So

Jessica: Yes. So, um,

Mikki: again, I'm the whole problem.

Jessica: Yeah. But one of the things is they, they electrocute you.

Mikki: What?

Jessica: Yes. So

Mikki: what is this trading for? The CIA. So

Jessica: it, it's just one of the obstacles that could be there. So like I was googling all the obstacles. Oh my, one of them is. Choose being dirty and like a mu, literally like army.

Mikki: Like no, the choices, no

Jessica: thank you. Like arm crawl.

Mikki: Oh God.

Jessica: During the

Mikki: mouth water.

Jessica: No.

Yes.

Mikki: I

Jessica: was like,

Mikki: oh my God. Be like,

Jessica: but then there's like these things hanging down that have all the. Elect like that could electrocute you. Jess,

Mikki: why did you just sign up to get waterborne in?

Jessica: I dunno

Mikki: who does this,

Jessica: but now I

Mikki: have to

Joe Woolworth: do it.

Mikki: Do you? I mean, I, I

Jessica: mean,

Mikki: I'm coming down with a no,

Jessica: but on the plus side, I get to go away for a weekend.

Mikki: Where The Bahamas, [00:07:00] no. Nashville. Absolutely not. If we're talking Turks and Caicos maybe, but like, but

Jessica: they don't do a tough mutter there.

Mikki: Nashville. Absolutely not. There's not enough meat on the bone.

Jessica: Well, I get away from every, she's like,

Mikki: I get away from my kids. I don't wanna say that, but I'm getting away from

Jessica: my kids.

I'm getting, I'm getting a break.

Mikki: Oh,

Jessica: I'm getting a break. But I have to really work for it. You have to watch your

Mikki: cute.

Jessica: I'm hoping that that's not one of the obstacles

Mikki: that feels like we need to write into OSHA and be like where are you guys at? Are you regulating anything?

Jessica: There's another one where it's not electrocuting, but like you climb onto this like big, huge mat.

Okay. And then other people have to flip it over so that you go down sliding on the other side. And I was like. How am I supposed to get up to the top? Am I gonna have to be like, just push the butt up,

Mikki: just gimme a little boost? It's

Jessica: boost a little boost because I can't,

Mikki: yeah. I mean, that's, mm. That I,

Jessica: yep.

Is gonna be, Ooh. [00:08:00] But what I did do, because I'm only going to do this once, okay, so like it's, you know, I ran one marathon. Yeah, I'm gonna do one tough murder. I can say that I did it. Not everybody does. So check.

Mikki: She's

Jessica: not doing it. Actually not. So I told Karen, I was like, guess what? I did. And she's like, wow.

I was like, I signed up for the photo package. So I photo evidence smart of all the things that I had to go through so that one people will feel sorry for making a hundred percent two.

Mikki: I will feel sorry for her.

Jessica: I can laugh at the ridiculous faces that I will be making. Oh,

Mikki: I can only imagine you getting hurt going.

It looked good.

Jessica: My hu When I saw Brad that I signed up for it, he's like, you did what?

Mikki: Yeah. He's like, come again.

Jessica: You do, you do know you have to get dirty, like your whole body. Like, no, everything will be, you have to wear your shoes into water. And I was like,

Mikki: yeah, no.

Jessica: It's just

Mikki: not.

Jessica: I'm going to, I'm going to practice that so that I, yes.

Mikki: Yeah. Um, the, no, that's absolutely not. It's [00:09:00] funny because Hector's family. I am, I was the first white person in the family. Like I, I came in and I just ruined the whole thing as I was like, we white girl in the house right now. I learned that like his entire family had these like stereotypes. I don't think they realized they had stereotypes, but like all white people loved camp.

And I was like, what? No abs in a camper or at a hotel? Like what, what kind of camp in a tent

Jessica: Is there? Air conditioning?

Mikki: Absolutely not. And so, so I went camping with them one time. It was the worst experience because it was camping

Jessica: in a tent.

Mikki: In a tent

Jessica: where,

Mikki: um, it was, there's a, we have a. A, a off-road park called U Okay.

In North Carolina it's over by the, where the zoo is.

Jessica: Okay.

Mikki: And they, they all have like off-road vehicles. 'cause you know, we all work in construction, so we have money for nonsense like ATVs and [00:10:00] whatnots. So they'll go, the entire family will go like wild amounts, like mm-hmm. 50 people, the entire family.

There's so many, so many people. And, um, we went, it was terrible. It was, I was dirty. Mm-hmm. I couldn't un dirty myself. It was, it was a zero outta 10 experience. I hated it. I've never gone again. Never. Now Hector will go with his family.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: But he doesn't even ask. He's like, Hey, babe, I'm going camping.

Okay, have fun. Bye. I'll be here watching, watching Netflix, eating nachos. Like in the ac my hands will be clean. Like there's absolutely not. Um,

Jessica: does he take a dog with him?

Mikki: He'll take Callie. 'cause that's his girlfriend side.

Jessica: Cali. Callie come, goes

Mikki: camping, call Kaita. Yeah, he's he's still on that. We went to his sister's house where the Callie Casita is parked and he's like, man, I really need to get that, get that renovated so I can get my YouTube channel up and going.

And I was like, the sad part is he'll probably grow faster than ours, than [00:11:00] people watching a man in a pocket bully camping. Absolutely.

Jessica: I mean, he should record himself renovating it too, because

Mikki: Oh, he really should. That would be good quality television.

Jessica: Yeah.

Mikki: With

Jessica: Kelly

Mikki: there. I'll say it's a lot, I have a lot of respect for people who put together, like even just Instagram things like it is so much work, like getting the right shot and like having B roll and the editing.

It's so much so listen. Whoever, everybody out there, I tip my hat to you who has solid content. This is what Jess does for a living. So she's kinda like, yeah, bitch. I know. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's a lot. It's, I'm gonna stick to drywall. I'm gonna hire people like Jess to do my social media.

Listen shoes, great. You should check her out. But other than that, it is, it's just no. So I'm excited for your pictures, for your tough mutter. When is this happening?

Jessica: October. I have until October to train.

Mikki: God. Mm-hmm. Wait, that's kind of soon and like when you think about like everything you're gonna have to go through, how long is [00:12:00] it?

Jessica: We are only doing the 5K.

Mikki: Oh, we're only doing the 5K. Yeah. How many miles is that?

Jessica: 3.2

Mikki: in mud?

Jessica: Well, I mean, you run between obstacles. I don't know how far you run between and I don't know how many obstacles we actually have to do. Oh god. Gosh. There's a lot that after I found out what all the obstacles could be that I stopped researching because then I was like,

Mikki: you were never gonna do it.

Mm-hmm. It's like

Jessica: ly not I coparent, and I was like, I'm not backing out, but how does one prepare for being electrocuted?

Mikki: I don't know. It's very, she's ask the Navy Seals as part of their training.

Jessica: Yeah, she's like, it's very low voltage. It won't hurt

Mikki: because she's done one before.

Karen is a wild animal though.

Here's how I know that Karen is a wild animal. Karen is married to a dude that. I went to high school with, we did not know this until I showed up at Jess's house for New Year's Eve, and I knew his sister. She was in the exact same grade as me. He was a little bit like two years older than me, and like if you [00:13:00] went to our high school and you're still alive, you should get an award.

Mm-hmm. You should get like a national peace prize because the fact that you survived and you're out here still in the streets is impressive. Mm-hmm. So I know Karen's wild 'cause she's married to Jesus.

Jessica: Yeah. And she was in the Air Force.

Mikki: Oh, she was in the air. That's where they met, right?

Jessica: Yeah. Well,

Mikki: he, I don't know how this turned into a Karen and Jesus story, but here we are.

Jessica: Yeah. That's what his name is.

Mikki: People are like, nobody cares. Yeah. Oh yeah. That is his name. It's not the other kind of Jesus.

Jessica: Yeah, he was in the army.

Mikki: Okay.

Jessica: And they met in Germany.

Mikki: It was a little, it was a little military meet. Cute here for it.

Default_2026-04-20_2: Yeah.

Mikki: Here for that

Jessica: moment. Yeah. But yeah. So she

Joe Woolworth: one in 10 people.

Don't finish a tough

Jessica: one in 10. Don't one in 10. Don't finish a tough water. I'm gonna finish it.

And the 10 K. We're not doing the 10 k. That's too many. That's, that's too much. It's too

Mikki: many Ks. This is all, this is all the case.

Jessica: That's all the case, but yes, but no, we will finish it. I

Mikki: terrified for

Jessica: it. I mean, it'll be.

Mikki: Listen, you're gonna get to go to Nashville. I hear the food's [00:14:00] great.

Jessica: I'm just excited to catch a show

Mikki: while you're there.

Jessica: Listen, it took me six hours to run a marathon. This cannot be as bad as that.

Mikki: Oh God. I don't,

Jessica: I'll just be dirty. I like, literally like as soon as we're done, I'm gonna be like, I need a shower. I don't care if it's a hose.

Mikki: Yeah, you gotta have a whole rinse off.

Jessica: Ooh.

Mikki: Yeah, I can't, I can't wait for this for you.

I really can't.

Jessica: Schwab

Mikki: Schwa Blue.

Jessica: We're doing our

Mikki: best to come first. Me reading is not where we're gonna thrive. I'm gonna show you that right now. Like you read it. No dyslexia.

Jessica: Oh, do, oh, you're sure you're gonna play that card now.

Mikki: I am gonna play the dyslexic card right now.

Jessica: I just can't read,

Mikki: I just can't

Jessica: pronounce people's names.

Mikki: So we used, I've, mm-hmm. I've been using the GPT for our, for our scripts. For a [00:15:00] while now, and this one is clawed, so I'm interested to see if the script is better. We're gonna find out live action on television right now.

This isn't television, it's YouTube. But you get what I'm saying.

Jessica: Or if you're listening, buckle up.

Mikki: Buckle up buttercup. 'cause it's about to go down. So the story working title that is in quotes is they took their house down to the studs and walked away. The. Listen, I wanna say Schwab, right? That's what it looks like.

It says it's Schwab, but then there's an L in there, Schwab, I don't know, I think maybe they, it's, it's spelled S-C-H-W-A-L-B. Ooh, you tell me guys.

Jessica: Schwab,

Mikki: my brain is like, I'm not, we don't do phonetics. Hooked on phonics did not work for me. Um, but that's,

Jessica: you call 'em the s builders,

Mikki: the Schwab builders. But it's, that's the name of their company, the [00:16:00] S-C-H-W-A-L-B Builders.

It takes place in Denver, Colorado. And it is, it's giving scam vibes with shoddy workmanship. So we already did the, the opening, we did our chicky chat. It's all in here guys. We're just going through the script. It's fine. This is totally professional. Okay, so buckle up guys. 'cause this is a true story.

I've been waiting to tell you guys this one for a while because every week we bring you real stories from homeowners who hired a contractor and ended up in an absolute nightmare. And the reason we do this is because every time one of you hears what went wrong, you learn how to look for it when you're working on your own home.

That is the whole purpose of what we're trying to do. So you, you'll learn about red flags. You'll learn the questions to ask. You'll learn how to protect what matters the most. So, um, because as we've said, learning the [00:17:00] hard way is overrated.

So the reason this story matters is that homeowners were going to talk about, the homeowners that we're gonna talk about today did what every expert tells you to do what we tell you guys to do all the time. They hired a company that looked legit. They signed a contract, they paid installments, and by the time they realized what was happening, they had.

Been displaced from their home, and now that has been going on for two years. They had no permits pulled, no license, was on file for the contractor, and the city of Denver is telling them that their house was no longer safe to occupy.

Jessica: I can't believe that they're out of their house for two years. Two years like that.

Such a long time.

Mikki: I know. I was like, this is why this story is so important. Because sometimes we'll have like, oh, I was, we were out of the house for nine months. I'm like, these people could not live in their house for two years. Mm-hmm. It was condemned by the city.

Jessica: That's awful.

Mikki: I cannot, I cannot. [00:18:00] So as I said, we're going to Denver today.

A couple named Kevin and Noelle Collins. They had a 1950s bungalow. Um, and the contractor is named Avi. Sorry, you guys saying hard words that don't make sense is not where I shine. Um, the weird last name. So, are you ready, Jess?

Jessica: I'm never ready for these stories, but because I always feel so bad for them, but let's go.

Mikki: Here we're word it is buckle up buttercup.

Joe Woolworth: Mm-hmm. Buckling up.

Mikki: So this starts in 2022. Kevin and Noel Collins own a charming 1950s bungalow in Denver, which Denver has the cutest little bungalow. Oh, they're, they're a chef's kiss. Like their, their bungalow construction is on point. Um, the kind of house you see in every older neighborhood in Colorado, it had good bones, it had original hard wood, it needed some updates.

Um. Th they kind of wanted to do a, a real [00:19:00] remodel, like not just cosmetic. They really wanted to get into their, like actual full blown remodel. They did a new kitchen. They wanted to open up the floor plan and modernize some of the areas that hadn't been touched since. You know, like Eisenhower was the president.

I don't even know what year that was. It was probably in the fifties.

Jessica: Yeah, I have no idea. But this is every homeowner's dream, right? You get a home that you love and it. S it might be older, it could be newer, but like you're going to do all the remodeling to really make it your dream home. Yeah. 'cause

Mikki: it has good bones.

Mm-hmm. So you're like, you know what, we can work with this. Yep. And that's how it all started. So they find a company called. Schwab with an L. Builders run by a guy named Avi Schwab with an L. I should probably just come up with a better way to say that, but that's just where we're at.

Joe Woolworth: Just

Mikki: say s This s the S name.

His father Sean Schwab, with an L is, um, also involved in the business. [00:20:00] And from the outside it all checks out. They have a website, they have customers, they have a project manager named Kevin who meets with the Collins's and seems to know what he's doing. So again, as just to track the story they had.

A website that does not necessarily make you legitimate. They had all the, all the branding, they had all the things. They looked, they had confidence. Nothing. There is literally nothing that somebody could co could come to you with, including a pre presenting with a license that should divert you from actually checking.

Right to see if somebody is licensed. And you're gonna see why here in the story.

Jessica: Yep. So they sign the contract. Yep. And over time it adds up to more than $250,000 Yes. That they're giving him. Um, so over a quarter of a million dollars for remodel, which [00:21:00] I'm like. I could just buy a, yeah. Another hou, I mean, I know Denver's expensive, so they can't buy a house.

Yeah. But like you could buy a tiny home.

Mikki: Yeah. I mean, I mean,

Jessica: it's just, it's just so much money for remodeling.

Mikki: It's, I, I'll say like when we first started, it was, I. It was outrageous to me, like what people were coming back with and now we're so jaded, we're like, yeah, $250,000 for a renovation. Yeah, I mean that's, that's what people are charging.

That's just what it is. Like we did one where somebody spent $75,000 on a bathroom and somebody posted on Instagram, it was like 75,000. That is way overpriced. And we were like, well, we thought it was until we started doing this.

Jessica: It's not,

Mikki: it's

Jessica: not pre, it's gonna go pre and post COVID. Yes. So if you did a renovation.

Before 2020.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: All the pricing that we're saying sounds outrageous. If you do it after 2020.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: This is just the normal Now just get ready. Listen. I used Ready

Mikki: AC and ac, but it's not before Christ and after Christ. It's before COVID and after COVID. So the

Jessica: prices never [00:22:00] came

Mikki: back down. It was 2010 bc.

Joe Woolworth: Yep.

Mikki: Is it appropriate? Probably not, but do I have fun with it? I sure do. So it was a really serious project. Hmm. Um, and the Collins is, Collins is, that's a tough one. Um, did what you're supposed to do. They paid in installments as work progressed. Um, I. They're not dumping the whole thing upfront, which is good.

So they didn't, they didn't pay a huge deposit, but they did pay in these, these installment payments. 'cause they thought this is how we protect ourselves. And that is one way of protecting yourself. But this is a holistic thing. You can't look at it as, oh, if I check their license. Then I'm guaranteed it's going to be a good situation.

No, you check their license, but then you also make sure that your contract is a literal, literal chef's kiss. Like we, I recommend you having a construction attorney review your contract before you sign it, um, which, listen, it might cost you [00:23:00] 200 bucks, but 200 bucks instead of $20,000. Yeah. Or in this case, $250,000 is a much better situation.

Mm-hmm. Because what you wanna make sure, right, is that the things that, that the builder is stating in the contract are legitimate, that they're industry standard. And also that there is something in this contract that protects you from work, from per workmanship, or people walking off the job, or that there's legal teeth in this contract that will help you recover funds if, if it comes down to that.

Most contracts are very one sided, right? Like they're written to protect the CO in favor of the contractor and. In a lot of cases, like bad contracts can, can get a contractor in trouble, but a lot of people don't know that. So they just think, oh, well I had to do it 'cause I signed the contract. So having a lawyer review that contract before you sign it, I guarantee you, we'll put you in a position where at least.

If the worst case situation happens, you know that there's legal [00:24:00] protections in that contract, again, can't get blood out of a rock. So if they turn out to be a really shady contractor and they don't have assets that you can seize, yeah, it's not gonna do you any favors. But again, it's the whole picture, not just one piece.

So yes, you check the license, yes. You make sure that they have their proper insurance, you make sure that the contract is well written. Um, these are all things that we have to do over and over again. Mm-hmm. Um, so. The crew shows up. The first big thing they do is demolition, which it seems like every time, every story is like, the demolition was great.

Jessica: I mean, it's not hard to put a sledgehammer through a wall,

Mikki: right?

Jessica: And tear things down. I mean, I feel like I, you know, wanna. Bad day could

Mikki: really, mushrooms are a thing for a reason.

Jessica: Yeah. I could just wild out.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: Be like done.

Mikki: Rage. Rage bait is a real thing. And we'd be out here just smashing things. Yeah.

If we're lucky. My friend, actually, her husband took her on a [00:25:00] date to a smash room and she just sends me this video of her. With a sledgehammer.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: Going through dishes.

Jessica: Yeah.

Mikki: Just like, ah, she's raging. I was like, wow. It, this is why we're best friends. Because she also has the rage deep in her soul

Joe Woolworth: that I asked her out to go, and she's.

Mikki: No, her husband, her husband was like, we're going on a date to a smash room. I

Jessica: was like,

Mikki: and she's like, I knew I married the right one.

Jessica: You look like you have some tension, honey.

Mikki: I'm not gonna lie though, if pre Hector somebody took me to a smash room, I'd be like, I hope you put on putting a ring on it, because we're perfect for each other.

. Okay. So when you start demolition, obviously that is the point of no return. Once they take it out, once everything is taken down to the studs, once you've got the absolute. Catastrophe. The demolition is. Mm-hmm. Unfortunately, there's no going back.

Jessica: Yeah. Now you feel like you're dependent on the company

Mikki: [00:26:00] and that, we hear that a lot.

We hear a lot of people I do think it's like a tactic that that shady contractors use. They get you to feel like, well now we've torn your entire house apart. You have to pay us more. You have to go along with the things that we're asking you because your house is torn apart, and if you ever want it put back together, you just have to keep feeding the beast.

That's almost like an intimidation tactic. They're using how you are feeling about your house being torn up to al to hit you up for more money because what are you gonna say? No, I'm gonna hire somebody else and start this process all over again. And the answer is, yes, you are gonna hire somebody else.

You can either do it now or you can do it later. Mm-hmm. But most people learn. On, on, on the hard way that that it's the later is where it costs even more money. It

Jessica: could cost so much more.

Mikki: Yes. So you feel dependent to put everything back. Now you are a hundred percent dependent on this company. So Schwab Builders comes in, they do the demo, and then.

Jessica: They slow [00:27:00] down.

Mikki: Yes, they slow down. Work gets patchy. Days run into weeks, weeks where absolutely nothing happens. The Collins' are living in a partially gutted house and the progress is at best inter intermittent. Mm-hmm.

Um.

And this is the exact moment in the timeline where you as a homeowner start to hear a little voice in your head going, something is wrong.

And we hear that every single time. There's this point where like, everything's demoed. You can't, your house isn't functional, you can't use anything in it. But things just aren't adding up. They're giving you really weird reasons as to why they can't get started or why they're delayed. And, and in so many of the stories that you guys have shared with us, this is where that little tinkly feeling, the, the gut, the not like fun butterflies like in your gut.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Start the anxiety butterflies.

Mikki: They start, they start flying around. So something is wrong. Mm-hmm. Um, and I wanted to [00:28:00] tell every one of you listening to trust that voice, um, that voice is right, that you have to trust your gut. Um, a legit con contractor. If their crew is pulled off your job for legitimate reasons, whether waiting on inspections or a problem with the supplier, they will tell you that they will call you.

They will not ghost you. And that is a really good point. A, a legit contractor is going to be communicating with you. Problems happen on jobs. Like you never know what you're gonna find when you open up a wall. And it could be something that, okay, this is gonna require an engineering letter. This is gonna require us bringing in like a piece of material that has to be manufactured and that's gonna take some time.

But communicating that with you. You shouldn't be guessing why your project isn't proceeding No. The way that you were told it was going to. And when you find yourself in a situation where this person will not communicate you with you, or you are running their job, you know what's going on and they don't, that's definitely a red flag where you need to start questioning like, okay, [00:29:00] what's going on?

So the Collins are watching the calendar and the money they've already paid is gone. It's paid. The house they have emotionally invested in is sitting half finished. Mm-hmm. They keep asking for updates and the answers they get are very vague.

Jessica: And what about permits at this point? Has anybody seen a permit or has an inspection happened?

Mikki: Unfortunately, that's a great question because when this case eventually falls apart, when an independent engineering firm comes in and looks at the project, they find out that no permits were ever pulled.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: And the builder were not licensed contractors.

Jessica: Wait, wait. So these guys are doing a, have demoed a whole kitchen and they're not licensed and they haven't pulled a permit.

So the Collins have hired this company. Th thinking that they were, and [00:30:00] they weren't. Here's

Mikki: the

Jessica: thing,

Mikki: it wasn't just their kitchen. So they wanted to, like, they had not an open concept type of house, and they wanted to open up the entire house. Oh, so this even worse. So it wasn't just the kitchen, it was like the kitchen and parts of the living room.

Mm-hmm. It was a good portion of like half the house. And this is all stuff that like guys. I don't care what state you live in, I don't care what the rules are in your state. If, if your state says, ah, it's fine, just move walls around, no problem. You don't need an inspection. That might be your state's rules.

That might be the, the nonsense that a general contractor's trying to tell you. Mm-hmm. But when you are moving anything structural in your house or anything major in your house, you. You may not think it's structural. The general contractor might not think it's structural. Having a structural engineer and having that work inspected is so important to protect you as the homeowner.

So whenever anything major is happening and they're saying, oh, you don't need an inspection for that, we don't need to pull a permit, that is a huge, no, it is a huge red flag. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:31:00] so it's not that they just weren't licensed. Um. Because you guys hear me say this all the time, over and over again, that you have to verify the license yourself.

A business card and a letterhead are not proof of a license. In Colorado general contractors are licensed at a local level. So the city of Denver has a contractor licensing program, so that's interesting because it's very different here. Mm-hmm. We have a statewide licensing program. It's not city by city.

So that's where like doing that research before you start a project to learn what the rules are in your area is really important. Um, oh. So, and you can find this out just doing a free search online. Um, you type in their name, it tells you whether they're registered, whether the license is active and what their.

What the dis disciplinary record looks like. Which that's cool that they do that in Denver. 'cause they don't do that here.

Jessica: No. It would be so nice if they did.

Mikki: It would be. It would be really cool. But again, I have beef with the [00:32:00] North Carolina GC board because I just feel like it exists to serve the contractor.

But it may, they make it seem like they exist to protect homeowners, but at the end of the day, their policies. Are much more protective of, of builders than they are of homeowners. So I'm just kind of like, Hmm. Not buying it. No, but that's a really cool thing that they, in Denver, they're like, if you've been in trouble, people can search it and see it.

That's not the case here. Yeah. So I love that for Denver,

Jessica: but unfortunately the Collins did not spend the time to research this gentleman,

Mikki: and I hate that for them. Mm-hmm. Um, nobody in this story. And in all fairness to the Collins', um, a home, a lot of homeowners don't even know that this is a thing that they can do.

That is the biggest thing that people would, when people write in and they're taking ownership of a part of how this all went bad. It's always, I didn't look until it was too late. Mm-hmm. So we're not throwing shade guys. You don't know what you don't know until you know it. And so that's why it's so important, honestly.

[00:33:00] I mean, this is obviously a shameless plug, but that's why it's so important to share this podcast with your friends. Nobody's talking about this stuff, and it's not like I'm saying like, oh, we're, we're on the cutting edge. I'm just saying like literally nobody is talk. I don't see another podcast of people saying, Hey, listen, we're gonna share your stories and we're gonna break them down and tell you what went wrong.

Nobody's talking about this stuff. So the more you can share it and the more you can help people understand like, Hey, these are the things you need to know before you get started, the less homeowner horror stories will exist.

Jessica: I wish I had known before I did my home projects.

Mikki: Yeah. I mean,

Jessica: I have lived through my own horror story,

Mikki: right?

Jessica: It wasn't as, it wasn't a kitchen or bathroom. Yeah. So it's not as terrible and it wasn't as much money, but. If I had known I would've saved myself.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: It's such a headache.

Mikki: And then this is why we do this podcast.

Jessica: Yep.

Mikki: Um, so time keeps going. The Collins are hearing just excuse after excuse the work that [00:34:00] has been done.

They're starting to notice that it's not quite right. Something feels off like structurally. 'cause again, they moved a lot of their interior load-bearing walls. So they got an attorney. On retainer at this point. Um, and the City of Denver inspector eventually takes a look at the house. Mm-hmm. So from what I kind of read in like the backstory, they go and they hire this attorney.

'cause they're like, listen, all this work is happening. We don't think it's right. We're not getting responses from,

Jessica: and we spent a lot of money. Yeah.

Mikki: And what I think is cool is they went, they went to talk to this attorney before they even like. Said anything to the contractor. Mm-hmm. Because they were like, maybe we're, maybe we're being unrealistic, which I think is a great perspective to have.

They're like, may, maybe I need to somebody to like fill me into like, what's industry standard? What's normal? I don't wanna come at this contractor sideways until I know what's what.

Jessica: Right. Because once you come up them sideways, they, they're going to leave your job. They

Mikki: gonna never pick that phone up again.

We've talked about it. So I [00:35:00] like how they did that. I think that's a really good tip. If you're, if you find yourself in a situation where you're like, this is sus. Talk to an attorney before you, before you let the contractor know that you, you're kind of onto the She Anns and the shenanigans, you know?

Mm-hmm. So they were on it, and I love that. And I guess from what I was reading, the lawyer was like, yeah, that sounds bad. But the lawyer's thinking from the perspective of criminal. Processes and from civil processes. So he's like, we need documentation ation. Mm-hmm. So he reaches out to the, to the Denver Inspections Department.

He's like, we need, it's called a courtesy inspection. So. He basically explains to the inspections department like, Hey, listen, this contractor's saying that they didn't need an inspection for this or mm-hmm. Just have completely not pulled anything. We know there's not an existing permit, but can we pay you guys to come out and take a look at what's been done to let us know, does this need a permit?

Does this need to be inspected? And the inspector came out and was like, oh, [00:36:00] hell no.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: That's where this part of the script is called the Climax. Listen, it's getting weird. Claude's Claude's doing weird stuff on the script.

Jessica: He also don't have to read every single thing that's

Mikki: says that is true. But listen, I, it comes outta my mouth and then the words just come to the mind.

What am I supposed to do? The climax. Are you ready for it? So

Jessica: ready.

Mikki: Jess is like, I'm ready for this to be over. So shortly after Thanksgiving of 2023. This is the moment, a year into this project, so they are a year in. Mm-hmm. And it is still, they still have.

Jessica: No kitchen.

Mikki: No kitchen. They have no like functioning house. Um, the City of Denver issues a stop work order on the Collins' Home and an independent engineering firm comes in and looks at the s company builder. What, what they've done.

Jessica: And guess what they found?

Mikki: It's nothing good.

Jessica: It's

Joe Woolworth: nothing

Mikki: good. They found that the house was [00:37:00] considered unsafe to occupy, would die.

Those were the words in the report. I know. Like unsafe to occupy. Can you even imagine? No. And it's like, if you think about this, it wasn't, they did so much structural damage to their kitchen and living room that the entire house then became unsafe to occupy because they removed so many walls, walls, load bearing and structural walls that it was like the, the Denver, um.

Permitting department where inspections department was like this, the, your roof could cave in on you. Like there's no longer enough support holding up the roof that it could cave in on you's. Um, so, um. Those are the words that were in the report. The structural work that had been done was so poor and so far out of code , that the house the Collins' had been living in while it was being remodeled, was going while the remodel was going on, it was now a safety hazard.

The engineer said. That again, that it was, it was unsafe to occupy the city of Denver [00:38:00] said it is. Well, the house could not be lived in.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. I can't even imagine, like I. Like that, feeling like, oh dear, oh my God, I've been living here. Yeah.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: And it could have fallen down on me at any point.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: They would like, I would be livid.

Mikki: Like the level of like, you never sleep again.

Jessica: The, the angry Colombian would come out,

Mikki: watch out. You

Jessica: don't wanna see that.

Mikki: You don't wanna see about that. So the Collins' had to leave their house shortly after Thanksgiving of 2023. They moved into temporary housing and started paying, get this, their mortgage on the house they couldn't live in plus rent on whatever, wherever they were staying.

It was two house payments for two years.

Jessica: Two long years. Dude, I, that's so much money. Like I. And I, I just can't even imagine. No, because like Denver is not cheap.

Mikki: No. So like [00:39:00] wherever they were renting mm-hmm. I'm sure it was as much as their dag on mortgage payment.

Jessica: Oh, yeah. Because I'm sure they found something just on furnish finder or, or something.

Mm-hmm. Or Airbnb where they had to live somewhere that was furnished because all of their stuff is still in there. Home they're

Mikki: not. And this is common. So like we've had situations where like people were staying with family members. Our first homeowner horror story ever that launched the podcast, they were staying in Airbnbs.

They had four dogs. So they were paying this like through the nose, outrageous, mm-hmm. Fees to stay or stay in Airbnbs without many dogs. I mean, I'm, I'm shocked they even found somebody that would let them bring that many dogs. So, like, absolutely insane. And, and one thing that I wanna pause and talk about here.

Is what it takes for a remodel to result in a stop work order. Mm. Um, and an unsafe to occupy determination. And, and those are like legitimate determinations. It's not just like the, the guy saying it's unsafe to occupy. The city is saying it's almost like a con [00:40:00] condemnation. So the building is condemned.

So the fancy way of saying condemned MAO is unsafe to occupy. Mm-hmm. Um. So it's not just a bad paint job, that's not a cosmetic issue. This is a load bearing concern. Structural concerns and life safety concerns, wiring, framing, and things that if you live in the house, could hurt you or someone in your family.

And that is the result of someone doing construction with no permits and no inspector to look over their shoulder and make sure they're doing it right. This is the reason permits exist, y'all. Like that is literally bold and highlighted in the script. So Claude did get that right. It is the reason for permits.

Permits are not paperwork permits are a third party. Making sure that the person with the hammer actually knows what they're doing. I. Shocking. Um, and the, the schwabb,

Jessica: they didn't want anybody looking. They did, they did [00:41:00] not want a single person looking. But just think about like how bad it had to have been for these people to think like, oh, I need a lawyer.

Right? And then the lawyer goes and gets the inspector and inspector's like, no, we're gonna, we're gonna make this unsafe for a living. Like there is, I mean, it's not a short list. That it has to be, they

Mikki: didn't even do that with the Jake Moba guy. Now that might have been, 'cause the inspections department was in, it was kind of in on it, but like it wasn't structurally sound and yet Yep.

They continued to allow him to live in the house. So like, it must have been a really, really bad mm-hmm. Um, and it turns out that they, the Collins weren't the only ones. Oh, no. When prosecutors started digging, they found victim after victim. A family named the Davidsons Ben Davidson. Testified at the trial that the S, whatever their company name builder, caused a massive asbestos spill in his home.

Jessica: Asbestos.

Mikki: I know

Jessica: that is so dangerous. I'm

Mikki: like, what did they even do? So [00:42:00] if you're a contractor doing demo in a house that's built before the late seventies, and this is a thing because. Look how any of us are still here is kind of beyond me. The stuff that were happening in like the fifties, sixties, seventies, especially in like the construction world, like what they were putting in materials and being like, it'll be fine.

Rub some dirt in. It is wild to me, like lead and paint. I'm just like, well,

Default_2026-04-20_2: they

Jessica: didn't know, I

Mikki: guess. But come on, like

Jessica: I, I was almost rented an apartment when I was living in Rhode Island.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: And it was horse hair. Was part of the, of the wall. So

Mikki: yeah, that's, so like old school, um, stucco, essentially they use horse hair.

So if you're, if you're over in Nashville, North Carolina and you go to like the Biltmore area mm-hmm. They have all these just like adorable little cottage looking buildings that are shops and they're all, they all have this old school kind of plaster stuff and it has horse hair in it. Yeah. And there's like one guy in the country [00:43:00] that still does it.

That's

Jessica: crazy.

Mikki: Um, so again, if you are like a contractor working in anything that was built before the late, um, 1970s, you're required to test for asbestos. You're also required to test for lead. Um, and if it's present present, you are required to have a certified abatement team handle it. Which, listen, that's good work if you can get it.

'cause it's a process to get that license and you, you have to go through a lot of hoops and a lot of red tape and a lot of like. Hoops a fire. But once you have that license, you are the only people that can, can do that work. Like, I can't do asbestos work if I don't have that type of license. And that, I think that's a federal thing.

So I think that it doesn't matter what state you're in. Mm-hmm. Like asbestos is so dangerous and that, and it's not just the handling of it, it's the disposing of it because it can

Jessica: gets in the air

Mikki: and that's it. Yeah. It can, it can be really toxic. Mm-hmm. Um. So you don't just rip it out because it's a public health issue, and that's a [00:44:00] federal regulation.

The EPA reg regulates that, um, which you can reference, you know, on the line. So ultimately, a Colorado statewide grand jury. Jury indicted. Five people in December of 2024, including the owner, Avi, whatever his last name is, his father Sean, and multiple employees. Do y'all know the crimes that you would have to commit for not just the father and son, but their employees like.

Schemes. Schemes be scheming. Mm-hmm. The indictment was amended in March of 2025 to add more than a dozen additional charges, and when the forensic accountant went through the builder's bank records from July, 2021 to December, 2024, they found over. $1.1 million in consumer fraud that were not spent on the customer's projects or refunded that money just went somewhere else.

Jessica: Some it's just floating around

Mikki: [00:45:00] probably an account. And they came ins.

Jessica: Yeah. All of a sudden they have like a brand new. Vacation home. Oh,

Mikki: monster Truck Fancy

Jessica: cars.

Mikki: As one does.

Jessica: Yes.

Mikki: You know, listen, for me, it would just be additional special trash.

Jessica: All the special trash

Mikki: actors are like, look at this great special trash.

He was very excited to be able to go get. Something out of the special trash over the weekend like Oh, I do have just the thing for that. You are like rano little special trash. Shed just little see. So excited to go to to the special trash shed come back, I've got this thing for it. And like that is a great thing.

'cause at least we're not going and buying something. But it also reinforces that special trash is good. Yeah. So whenever it happens that part of my soul dies. 'cause I'm like, great, this is gonna mean more special. Ashes perched. '

Jessica: cause it's useful, Mickey.

Mikki: I'm the whole problem, not Hector. So the case goes on trial and Kevin and Noelle Collins testify, Ben Davison testifies and multiple victims get on the [00:46:00] stand and explain what the shrub builders did to their home.

I love that we're saying shrub, blah, blah, because I'm like, can you sue us? Did we say your name? I don't think we did.

Jessica: We butchered it.

Mikki: We did spell it though. And the jury comes back and they find that the, this builder was guilty on every single count, 47 felony counts of theft, money laundering, and violating Colorado's organized Crime Act.

I'm like, oh. So the mafia was involved. My

Jessica: God, every single count

Mikki: they were found guilty and every single one. That's awesome.

Jessica: I mean, awesome that they're getting the people are getting justice. Yes. Not awesome that they did it.

Mikki: Yeah, it sucks that it happened. We're glad that they're in trouble and the judge sentenced, um, the, the main guy, Avi, to 10 years in a Colorado corrections department, like get out

Jessica: 10 years.

Mikki: So I think 10 years is the most anybody's gotten so far. The, I think the story before was five to 15, you know, that guy's getting down in 4.5 years, [00:47:00] but dude, a solid 10 years, like mm-hmm. No swing room. I'm here for that. Um, and Colorado Attorney General, Phil wiser in his statement, said this sentence should stand as a warning to anyone who exploits homeowners in Colorado.

Joe Woolworth: Mm-hmm.

Mikki: And here's the piece of the story that still makes me, you know, a little spicy. In December of 20 25, 2 full years after they had moved out, Kevin and Noelle Collins family. Finally moved back into their home, not because of anything that the builder did, but because the Better Business Bureau runs a program called the Re Restoring Trust, where legitimate local contractors donate labor and materials to rebuild homes that have been destroyed by bad actors.

Mm-hmm. And a team of Colorado contractors came together and put the Collins family home back together for free.

Jessica: That's

Mikki: amazing. I have, I have goosebumps.

Jessica: Yeah. I don't

Mikki: know if you can see it, but I have [00:48:00] goosebumps. So I didn't even know that was a thing.

Jessica: No idea. But thought it, idea. And I thank God that these, that the other contractors there felt, I.

Like moved enough to do that for them.

Mikki: Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna get into the red flags. Um, obviously they did not check his license. No. So that is the first thing that is really important. And, and, and the other thing is like, before you sign anything, before you pay a dime, is to verify that license yourself.

In most states contractors licensing is public. It's they have an online database. In Colorado, the city of Denver has a lookup in Florida, they have a lookup in California, the same thing. So this checking the license, no matter which state you're in it, it is not hard. It is just that you have to think about it before you sign on the dotted line.

Jessica: Yeah, it takes three minutes.

Mikki: The other red flag is that no permits were pulled and this was major work. So listen, if somebody wants to come swap out your [00:49:00] sink and they tell you that they don't need a permit, that's not super alarming. If somebody comes into your house and says, we're gonna rearrange the entire way that your house looks on the inside, we're gonna move walls, we're gonna move where your sink is, we're gonna put in new lights, and they're not calling for any permits.

That's a whole problem. Um, we're going through our, our red flags a little quick 'cause we're running late on time. It's my fault. Um,

Jessica: red flag number three was that the contractor does demolition before anything else is locked in.

Mikki: Yeah. So in this case, they didn't have all the contract worked out and they started demolition anyway, which is a huge red flag.

And, and that, that's another red flag, is that the. The, like the updates that they got from the builder, they were never just like, Hey, this is exactly what's gonna happen. They were like, well, maybe we, so it was super being. Increasingly hard to understand and they were using like weird language and things like that, so that even if they did give them an answer, the homeowners didn't know [00:50:00] what it really meant what they're

Jessica: saying.

Mikki: Yeah.

Jessica: And don't ever let a contracting company say that they're going to handle the inspections for you?

Mikki: Yeah, well, I mean, it's their job to like handle the inspections, right? So like when we're talking about permit. Yeah, when we're talking about they're not doing inspection inspections and permits and things like that, they should be handling it.

But when they say that it's not required, that's when you definitely need to like let those red flags be flagging. So in this case, it's kind of the same as every single case, every story that we've had, they weren't real contractors, they did not have licenses, and unfortunately. Just as every one of these starts, nobody checked before they signed on the dotted line.

They didn't give them clear outlines and clear definitions of what was gonna happen and when, and eventually they just stopped showing up and it cost them two years of not living in their home of paying two mortgages for the place they were currently living and their home that was under construction.

Wild. In this case, they were lucky that they had a builder come out and finish their work for them for [00:51:00] free, which has literally never happened on any of the horror stories that we've shared. They

Jessica: always had to pay way more money.

Mikki: Way more money. So they were really lucky in that. But like the cost of like housing their entire family for two whole years, I can't even imagine how much that was.

And we don't want this to happen to you. So if you have a homeowner, our horror story, we would love it if you go to chicks and construction.com and share that with us and just where can they find us on the socials?

Jessica: On Facebook, Instagram, and Link. LinkedIn is at Chicks Construction Podcast on TikTok.

It's at Chicks Construction.

Mikki: All right, guys. Share those stories because learning the hard way is overrated, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye bye.