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In this episode, Tiffany Ann Bottcher chats with Michelle Denogean, a seasoned chief marketing officer and advisor with over 20 years of experience in the startup ecosystem. Michelle has transitioned from a creative career, initially aspiring to be an author and marketer, to a pivotal role in shaping business success within startups. She shares her insights on the psychology of startup founders and the evolution of leadership, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and team dynamics in scaling businesses. Her unique perspective, informed by years of working alongside founders and her deep understanding of marketing and operations, provides valuable guidance for entrepreneurs looking to enhance their leadership skills and grow their businesses effectively.
Episode Summary
In this episode, the discussion focuses on the critical role of self-awareness in leadership and how recognizing blind spots can empower founders to scale their businesses effectively.
Key Insights
- Founders must identify their blind spots to avoid hindering growth.
- A balanced team with complementary superpowers is essential for success.
- Leadership styles must evolve from control to empowerment as businesses grow.
- Embracing pivots can lead to significant growth opportunities.
- Self-discovery is vital; founders should reflect on tasks they avoid to identify patterns.
- Trust in teams and delegating responsibilities fosters a culture of growth.
- Learning from failures is crucial for continuous improvement.
About The Host:
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher is a strategic business consultant, podcast host, and mother known for her dynamic approach to digital business and leadership. She blends strategy and authentic connections, bringing practical insights to entrepreneurs and leaders navigating the world of service-based business.
YouTube: Tiffany-Ann Bottcher
Tiktok: @ta_bottcher
Website: bottcher.io
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher is a strategic business consultant, podcast host, and mother known for her dynamic approach to digital business and leadership. She blends strategy and authentic connections, bringing practical insights to entrepreneurs and leaders navigating the world of service-based business.
YouTube: Tiffany-Ann Bottcher
Tiktok: @ta_bottcher
Website: bottcher.io
About the Guest:
Michelle Denogean is an accomplished marketing strategist and entrepreneur with a unique background spanning corporate leadership and creative pursuits. She leverages her expertise in marketing and operations to empower entrepreneurs.
Website: michelledenogean.com.
Website: michelledenogean.com.
Creators & Guests
What is Service Based Business Society Podcast?
Attention entrepreneurs! Are you looking for ways to scale your service-based business without sacrificing your sleep? Look no further than The Service Based Business Society Podcast, hosted by Tiffany-Ann Bottcher.
Each week, Tiffany-Ann shares valuable insights on productivity, business strategies, marketing trends, and tech secrets that you need to know in order to take your business to the next level. She firmly believes that a successful service-based business must prioritize an amazing client experience and sustainable, predictable, repeatable profit, and she'll teach you how to do just that.
But that's not all - Tiffany-Ann also invites expert guests to share their knowledge and experience with you, providing even more valuable insights on service-based business growth and sustainability. You won't want to miss a single episode!
If you're looking to create, grow, and optimize your service-based business, The Service Based Business Society Podcast is the perfect resource for you.
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MINDSET
Focused on helping entrepreneurs cultivate the right mindset for success in their businesses. Hosted by experts in the field, the podcast covers a range of topics related to mindset and business, including self-improvement, goal setting, visualization, and meditation. The podcast provides practical tools and strategies to help listeners develop a growth mindset, overcome limiting beliefs, and build confidence. Through inspiring interviews with successful entrepreneurs and thought leaders, the podcast shows that a positive and resilient mindset is key to achieving business success.
DATA-DRIVEN DECISION MAKING
Dedicated to equipping business leaders with the knowledge and skills they need to lead with confidence, based on data-driven insights. Hosted by experts in business leadership, the podcast covers a range of topics related to data analysis and interpretation, strategic decision-making, and effective communication. It provides practical tools and strategies for interpreting complex data sets and using them to make informed business decisions that drive growth and success. Through engaging interviews with successful business leaders and industry experts, the podcast offers valuable insights and examples of how to use data to build strong teams and drive innovation.
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A great resource for aspiring entrepreneurs looking to learn from the experiences of successful business owners. Through relatable and engaging entrepreneurship stories, the podcast provides valuable insights into the challenges and opportunities that come with starting and running a business. Hosted by experienced entrepreneurs, the podcast covers a range of topics related to entrepreneurship, including idea generation, product development, marketing, and fundraising. Each episode features inspiring interviews with successful entrepreneurs, who share their personal stories and provide practical advice and tips for those looking to start and grow their own businesses.
BUSINESS TOPICS
As businesses continue to evolve, it's essential for entrepreneurs and business owners to stay informed about the latest trends and best practices in marketing, bookkeeping, technology, and innovation. The podcast is a valuable resource for anyone looking to keep up with these changes and stay ahead of the competition.
Whether you are just starting out or looking to take your business to the next level, this podcast is a great source of inspiration and guidance from real-world examples of entrepreneurship success.
Brought to you by Bottcher Group of Companies
Hello and welcome to the Service Based Business Society podcast. I am your host, Tiffany Ann Botcher. On our weekly episodes, we will dig into everything you need to know about scaling your service based business without losing sleep. With my experience in creating over 7 figures per month and a passion for marketing, finance, and automation, this show will provide tangible tips and techniques for scaling your business. Let's get started.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Hello, and welcome back to the show. This week, we have very special guest, Michelle Denogene. Michelle focuses on the psychology of start up founders as a pathway to scalable success. If you've been listening for any length of time, you know that's what we're all about, scaling success, growing businesses. And when Michelle talked about tapping into superpowers beyond just your own, growing businesses, scaling success, I knew she was the perfect guest.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:So without further ado, welcome to the show, Michelle. Thank you for having me, Tiffany. We always dive in with a little bit of journey discussion. So born and raised and still living in California, but what else can you tell us? How did you kind of get to where you are?
Michelle Denogean:Yeah. Great question. So it's interesting because I like you said, I'm born and raised here. I started out my career really wanting to be a creative. I kind of had that in me from the very beginning.
Michelle Denogean:Actually, to be honest with you, since I was my daughter's age, like, since I was a teenager, I'm like, I will be an author and a creative. I, you know, would watch some of the shows on advertising and marketing and be like, that. Yes. So I wanna sit around the boardroom, and I wanna be able to envision these campaigns. And, and so I went to school for that and, worked in a publishing company for a while, and I've been in the in the and around the fringes of marketing.
Michelle Denogean:So that that is true that that did come to life. That's, you know, who I became. I'm also the daughter of an accountant. And so as much as I try to, like, push the numbers away and push the business away, I never really avoided it. And, a little bit of my story comes from a time when, I guess this is going to I guess I'll just call myself seasoned.
Michelle Denogean:That's and they say seasoned. I was around when the Internet started, and, and so I worked for a very, very like, one of the first Internet startups back in the day. And, I started to go to these boot camps where all of these people were getting 1,000,000 of dollars and working out of their garages. And, and I just I had this epiphany that business is business, and somebody's gonna have to be there to help them. And that was actually the first time that I felt this, like, pull in this attraction to the world of business, and that did fundamentally change my trajectory.
Michelle Denogean:So, you know, you fast forward, today, I've been, you know, over 20 years working in start ups. I have done all sorts of roles, from operations to analytics to product and, of course, marketing and worked my way up to, the chief marketing officer role. I've been in that seat over 6 times now and, love it. But I've also worked alongside founders for a very long time, which is really what, drew me into the passion of advising other start up companies is seeing these amazing founders starting companies and wanting to help them be successful. Kind of goes all the way back to that time frame when I went to that boot camp and saw all of these founders and realized that they needed support.
Michelle Denogean:So that's a little bit of my journey, and now I am still in an operating seat. I'm still a chief marketing officer for a start up in the travel and AI space called MindTrip, but I also have my own, advisory services on the side, and I've been doing that for almost a decade now.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:The advising is truly you get to be a part of so many businesses and ideas. You know, it's it's one of the pieces that drew me away from, corporate is that, you know, you're you're part of one thing, and and it's amazing. It's it's 2 very different things because when you're immersed in a business, you can make such a big impact because you're a part of, you know, multiple phases and and you get to know the team so well and and and whatnot. And then you move into this advising role and you get to see so many different things. And what excites me about those kind of founders and visionaries is is I love the passion that that many business owners have and and getting things off the ground and whether it's a startup or kind of that next level growth.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:But that, the passion and the the visionary truly is exciting to be a part of.
Michelle Denogean:Exactly. Yeah. And that is really what I see. I love the risk taking. I love the passion.
Michelle Denogean:I love the conviction they all have. I it's just I have a heart for it. So
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:So you started in this kind of advisory role, and you know your website really talks about, growth. So how has this kind of and I think advising kind of shifts. You talk about people back in the garage and that online startup. It's such an inter I find the internet, the timing of Internet, and how things have shifted. You know, there was a time in business where if you weren't coaching, if you weren't building something on ClickFunnels, you know, these were the 2 things that, you know, there were a 100 workshops and millions to be made and all of these types of things.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And I think that there's been a little shift away from some of those because like anything it gets a little saturated. There's still a lot of people doing amazing things. But back, you know, even a few years ago, this was this was if you were gonna start something, you were gonna be online, you had to be, you know, coaching and and building and doing these things. So you're talking about growth. You know, how have you really kind of affected the space, and what kind of clients do you typically work with?
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:I really focus on the psychology of the founder. I think it's something that
Michelle Denogean:comes very psychology of the founder. I think it's something that comes very natural to a lot of people that have kind of foundational marketing backgrounds. We're we're observers by nature. Right? That is what we do.
Michelle Denogean:We observe audiences. We observe people. We're usually pretty tied to the culture of a company. And I've just found that what I really can do is get in there and understand, not just the founder, but the leadership team generally in that ecosystem of how they operate and work together because I believe that the cure to business failure is people. It's the people that you have around you that make all the difference and making sure you have a balanced team with the right synergy and chemistry.
Michelle Denogean:And so I spend a lot of time in my advisory services looking at the makeup of the team and how people are working together. Do you have every single core competency that you need at the table in order to scale your company? So, you know, of course, I have the marketing discipline. I do I could talk about that all day. But as I've evolved in my career, in my my capabilities, and, really, honestly, my experience and what I've seen that I can contribute to people, that's really been my my number one which is it's the people.
Michelle Denogean:It's always the people.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Well, I think the people are where you can you can make some some big influences. If you really kind of break down, you know, the the cycle of a business, you know, yes, there's there's creating different campaigns and ads and marketing and reaching out to audiences. But once you have that dialed in and you know what's working, it will, you know, run on repeat with some modification obviously. But, you know, aside from tech failure, ultimately, things shouldn't really break, if you will. But when you when you bring into people, now you've got cultural pieces, they people have their own motivations, you've got all different personalities, you've got people that grow faster than others.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And I think it oftentimes, especially when you're moving from startup to, you know, maybe a slightly older business, one of the things that along the way is really challenging is people, you know, people enjoy startup and you have one team. And then as the business grows, some people grow faster and some people maybe don't grow as fast. And you kind of end up with some people who are frustrated or just feels kind of out of joint, and and that can really almost really slow the growth of the business down.
Michelle Denogean:Yeah. I agree. And I think it really comes down to what are everybody's individual superpowers at the company. It's like, what is your gift? What is the thing that you do better than anybody else?
Michelle Denogean:I typically find, especially in an early stage start up, whatever that superpower is of the founder is typically how the, like, the company mirrors that. That is the the superpower of the company. And as you bring people in, you have to look at how do I balance the thing that that founder was really, really good at with all of the other superpowers that are needed for that team so that you can grow and scale. And that's not always easy as you're growing because you will typically have, you know, your people around you when you first start the company, and that's great at the beginning. You can rely on your own superpower.
Michelle Denogean:It's what made you great. But over time, you have to complement that with other things. And so I think what really happens, my take on it, anyways, is the founders of these companies or the the initial, you know, leadership team, they don't there's certain things that are in the way of them seeing what needs to happen in order to scale. And if they don't get in touch with that, you know, I call that their blind spot. If they don't get in touch with that blind spot, then they're going to unintentionally sabotage the future, which is exactly what they don't want to have happen.
Michelle Denogean:So that's why, you know, I, really believe that self awareness and psychology is so much a business more so than people really comprehend.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:It's interesting because I think that, you know, the the almost blind confidence in yourself as an entrepreneur at times, is so important to getting the business off the ground. I often go back to, you know, different different people who you look at their success and I find very, very interesting. So I have this kind of, guilty pleasure. I love the American Greed podcast, and so these are people who have ultimately kind of pulled the wool over people's eyes and done, you know, often terrible thing. But if you actually look at whatever made these people successful or positive is these people just felt like they ultimately believed what they were selling, even though it was wrong.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And so you have and in any business, you have to believe when other people don't believe. So, yes, those people take it too far and there's an issue there. But there's so many people that have to believe so much in what they are are doing. But then there comes this point where now believing too much in what you're doing and not actually listening to the respected people around you. You know, it's it's great to hire someone and think, oh, this person has a skill set I don't have.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:But if you spend the next year debating around the table or over Zoom or whatever with that person to only do what you wanna do, the value that that person can bring is so muted. And so there's this confidence, but also this trust that must you might you know, the blind spot is a great way of explaining it because, truly, there's so many businesses that get stifled because although you've hired great people, you're not actually listening.
Michelle Denogean:That's right. Yeah. And the not listening is actually your typical downside to it. And people don't think about that because you're right. They they start with so much confidence and conviction in their idea, but there has to become a a reckoning that what made you great at starting is not going to be what makes you great at growing, and you need to be more open minded.
Michelle Denogean:People just have a really hard time sometimes getting out of their own way to do that, and trust is the foundation. Right? Trust that you this is what you do best, and therefore, you know, I'm gonna rely on you. I'm gonna empower you to do that. But oftentimes, there that empowerment gets derailed because, I just don't I don't think that's important.
Michelle Denogean:That's usually how it manifests. It's sort of like, I don't think that's important. Therefore, I'm going to, you know, push it aside or slow it down or and and it's really just because that's something that is in your blind spot that you can't recognize you need for growth. Mhmm.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Yeah. It's so true that what it took to get here is not what it's going to take to to keep going. And I think that applies to so many things is, you know, that that age old expression, well, it's always worked or it's worked for us so far or whatnot. And you, you know, you see it in so many pieces, whether it's, you know, innovating or optimizing or adding team members or even changing up the, you know, the product or offer a little bit, you know, times change and and the offer. And it's it's often those who can stay, you know, a little bit more dynamic and and whatnot that can stand the test of time.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:I mean, if you look back at some companies like Blockbuster once wildly successful, now it's, you know, I saw a Blockbuster t shirt the other day. It was like a vintage tee and my my, you know, young daughter was like, oh, and I was like, like that that used to be a Friday night. You would go down, you would pick out 2 movies, you would walk through all the snacks, my mom would be like no we're not buying popcorn here, we're making it at home, and you would go. And so you look at these things that at one time were pivotal, you know, and and done. Got it.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And and so I'm sure that somewhere along the way, some smart person said, hey, guys, like, we need to change. We need to evolve. And someone was like, no. No. We're not gonna do that.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And and that, you know, big. That's a big company. Now how much easier is that, you know, to happen to a smaller organization or a start up where you just didn't you just didn't keep growing?
Michelle Denogean:Yeah. I think, you know, there's there's something interesting that happens, to people, especially as they, you know, start a company and get going. In the very beginning, typically, they're very open to taking risks. That's what made them start. That's I mean, a lot of them, you know, quit their jobs, like, all in.
Michelle Denogean:Right? There's a lot of risk taking involved. But as the business starts to grow, the risk taking factors sometimes aren't as apparent anymore because now there's a lot to lose. And so, like, if we look over here, is that gonna impact this business? And that's where a lot of bigger companies do kinda seize up and, you know, they're not able to make those pivots.
Michelle Denogean:Mhmm. But pivoting is so important. You know, I tell people all the time, pivots are actually your biggest opportunities. And people forget that a lot of the companies that we know and love today were not what they were when they are not were not what they are today, aren't what they were when they first started. Right?
Michelle Denogean:When they first started the company, they were completely different. And, I mean, there's lots of examples of this. YouTube is a great example. You know, YouTube started as a online video dating website, and they couldn't, for the life of them, get women to post these videos. But they but they came upon this idea that people liked videos and education and, you know, look I mean, gosh, 1,000,000,000 of dollars.
Michelle Denogean:Right? So people forget that these companies were not what they are now back then. And there's just a plethora of other Slack is another great example of that. Right? Born from a tool they just kinda built to create efficiencies, but the company they were running before is a gaming company.
Michelle Denogean:So being open to that could actually unleash your biggest opportunity, but a lot of people are very scared. They think a pivot equates to failure instead of, hey. If we stay open and we we kind of, you know, take in what's happening and what's in front of us and maneuver and and pivot as we need, then success will be bred. Like, we'll we'll be great. And, unfortunately, you know, people's mental models sometimes can't go there.
Michelle Denogean:But if you can, then you can have all the confidence in the world that you're gonna be successful.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Yeah. It's it's maintaining the confidence and not really seeing it as failure. You it's so many times. It's it's well, hey. I put this out into the world, and it didn't work.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And, you know, and so but really being able to to reshape that and look at how many things that we consider wildly successful that that made many, many changes. And, I don't think that there's anyone out there that isn't that that can't speak to some kind of, you know, failure, we'll call it, along the way where something just didn't land quite as well as they thought or, you know, maybe they and and oftentimes we look back and think, oh, I could have, you know, maybe I could have explained that different or or, you know, maybe with time, you see where you could've made some adjustments. But as soon as you get into that, it's a failure, I can't do this, then really, it's that that mindset is actually the the biggest problem at all.
Michelle Denogean:Yeah. That is where you can see your biggest breakthroughs. I mean, just even, you know, put aside starting a business just as a human, as a as a, you know, employee, as a leader, when you have your biggest failures in your career, that's the biggest growth opportunity. And that really is, where I came into understanding my superpower. And my blind spot was, you know, early in my career, I thought I was an amazing leader.
Michelle Denogean:I really did in my head. In my head, I did. I really did. But I also you know, I I talk about in my book, in my advisory work, I talk about superpowers and that there's 4 of them. And I am what you call a connector, which means I love to, you know, connect with people, build relationships, you know, be, out there with thought leadership and all those things.
Michelle Denogean:But the thing about connectors is they love control. They love it because it's their reputation. Their reputation gets intertwined with the company's reputation. Right? And so I got all twisted in that early in my career, and I controlled.
Michelle Denogean:I held the rein so tight on my team that I couldn't let them do what they needed to do to be super successful. And I hit, like, rock bottom failure. You know, I had people on the team saying, like, we don't know the strategy. We don't feel involved. And I that just really sat with me for a very, very, very long time, but it was the biggest eye opener.
Michelle Denogean:Sometimes that failure moment is like, wow. I wasn't being a great leader. I wasn't empowering teams. And I took that. It opened my eyes to my blind spot.
Michelle Denogean:And over the course of the, you know, decade or so after that, I now can look back, and I talk to people that have been in my team. I have people that follow me to places because I am now an amazing leader, and I empower teams. But I it took that failure moment to be able to see that and to turn that around. And so, again, I I think, personally, those moments, whether it's a pivot or or or a failed, you know, moment in your career, are your biggest opportunities for growth.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Yes. Absolutely. And and I think that, you know, just because you have an amazing business idea and you're gonna grow a business and then your business is successful and now you're adding a team, that doesn't mean that you're a great leader. That doesn't mean that you you know? And so there's so many business owners out there that that the struggle in scaling the business is actually leadership because now you, you know, you need to influence the customers to purchase from you.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:You need to influence the team to believe in your you know, what you're doing and understand the culture and go out and do that. It's such a an underappreciated skill that I think often kinda creeps up because we're, you know, the business is growing and they're kinda head down and we're going and, oh my goodness, we're successful and, oh, we need to hire and, oh my and and it's kind of in that. And then all of a sudden you kind of take that moment to look up and you're like, woah, we have a team. This is this is we're growing. This is and and leadership was never really something you know, we thought about how much money we were making.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:We thought about what is the next marketing thing. We thought, you know, about how are we gonna actually get all of that scheduled, but we didn't really ever think about that. And so I think that that is such a key piece in that growth mode that that that shouldn't be lost. So you talk about, the connector being one of those 4 pieces. So what are the other 3?
Michelle Denogean:Yep. So first is the innovator. So the innovator is your problem solver. You know, they're very solution oriented. They're curious.
Michelle Denogean:They're creative. These are the risk takers that are just gonna dive in, understand your her your pain point, and then develop a really unique solution to fit those needs. They're really, really great at gaining conviction and product market fit, you know, for your audience. The the connector, like we talked about, you know, that's the relationship oriented reputation. They're gonna own your reputation.
Michelle Denogean:Then there's the builder. The builder is all about process and analytics and data. They're gonna help you raise money. They're gonna be the ones that help you hire and ramp up your company. And the 4th one is the persuader, which is all about winning customers.
Michelle Denogean:They're the ones that are gonna you want in your pocket to negotiate any kind of deal. They are also very much a storyteller, so they have that in common with the connector, but it's all to a means to an end. Right? They really are very focused on how do we, you know, leverage these experiences, these stories, these moments to get, you know, that negotiation done. So you need all 4 in your company.
Michelle Denogean:It is kind of like building a house. Right? If you do not have 4 pillars to your house, your house falls down. And that's the big thing that people, when they're starting companies, need to go from. My one superpower that made us great is perfect.
Michelle Denogean:It is exactly who I need to be. I don't need to learn to do these other things. I just need the people around me that are really good at those core competencies to grow my my business. And so I think that's where people are like, oh, well, I'm if I'm only one of those 4 superpowers, I'm not complete. No.
Michelle Denogean:That is amazing. That's great. Doesn't mean you don't have a little bit of something else, but you don't need to be the one to do everything. You need to empower your team to do those other things in order to scale your company.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Yes. So interesting. So as you were saying them, I thought when when you're going to the innovator, I was like, that's me. Yep. Mhmm.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And then you kept talking and I was like then you said the builder and I was like also also kind of me. So now I'm I feel like I'm hanging out in one of those places. I'll have to, you know, do a little more research to really understand, which where where I live. I
Michelle Denogean:think you can actually you can actually take there's a quiz on my website, and you can actually it's in my book too, but you can actually take the quiz and figure out which one you are more of. It is very possible that are you are part innovator and part builder, but that means that you have to take a look at the other ones and, like, really ask yourself where are you stopping people that you know that are in your world from being the fullest them? Because that's those are usually where your blind spots are. What they are good at is the thing where you feel like, I don't know if we need so much of that. Right?
Michelle Denogean:So
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:well, it's you know, you start to feel it's growing a business is very interesting and almost very humbling because, you know, you do have to accept others are gonna come in and and be just better than you at certain things. And I often find, and and this goes back to even my time in corporate, is, you know, people start to grow and then they it's time for them to move up and then they have someone really talented. And so but they almost start to feel like, oh, that person might take my job. That person that person might make me look bad. That person and so and then they shy away from that or they almost push that person down rather than than really see it.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And so, you know, the the old expression is a rising tide lifts all boats. And so, it's true. But in those moments, when you're actually in it and you start to feel that little bit threatened, then, you know, it can be really a challenge. And as a business owner, you're thinking, hey. This is mine.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:This is my business. I make the decision. And it's a very even you know, corporate was one vibe of that. But, you know, as a business owner, you start to think, well, you know, what if this person and how can they influence? And we get into our heads in those moments, I think, and start to overthink overthink things more than we should.
Michelle Denogean:Yeah. And that's where I think the self awareness comes in play. You can't stop it from happening. You are who you are. And so it as those things come up, you say, oh, I see it.
Michelle Denogean:I I thank you. Thank you for, you know, what you're saying to me, but I need to be very present to the fact that I need these people and why. You know? And I think a lot of times, you know, maturing in leadership is also understanding that when you hire somebody amazing, that is a reflection on you. And so, you know, you can say to yourself instead, I did a good job.
Michelle Denogean:I brought this amazing, incredible human being into this company, and they are going to do great things. And so when you can get your mindset more in that world of, like, hey. I don't need to make all the decisions, but I hired that was the best decision I made. I hired this person. Yes.
Michelle Denogean:Then you can start to break down the walls and the, oh, no. Like, what does this mean about me? Because that is a reflection of you that you hired that individual into your company.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Yeah. I think that, you know, hiring the right people at the right times is truly the difference maker aside from everything else. Because if you hire too early or you, you know, and you basically spend all of your your budget on on wages, then you you it puts you in a in a bad spot. But at the same time, if you think, oh, I'm just gonna keep doing this myself. Ultimately, you know, not bringing in those people and, you know, brilliant minds in those different areas truly can make such a difference.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:You know, you're talking about, you know, basically, you know, the innovator and the builder and I'm thinking, oh, yes. Well, I know that I'm not the connector and I know that I'm not. What was what was the 4th one? Persuader. Persuader.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:See, I I know so that I'm not that. So my brain was like, no. We are not the persuader.
Michelle Denogean:Put it in my pocket. No. Or as my daughter would say as my daughter would say lock it, put it in your pocket.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:There you go. I like that. Yeah. My brain was like, oop, that one's gone. So, you know, but and I it's interesting.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:I was we were doing another podcast interview recently. We were talking about sales and I said my whole my goal when I started was I need to learn to sell enough that my business can grow to the size that I can hire a salesperson. That was my whole that was my thing because I was like, I know that whoever who is really talented at that is so much more efficient. Can I sell? Sure.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Sure. I mean, my business grows. We're selling. So yes. But am I the best for that job?
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Absolutely not. Absolutely not. My talents are way better spent other places. And so you have to, you know, whether you have a small business, a large business, whether you're rich, you're broke, you still have 24 hours and you have a certain amount of resources and you gotta you gotta use them the best way that you can.
Michelle Denogean:Exactly. Yeah. I completely agree. And I think it is it is important to know. You know, I'm also not a persuader, but I've been in marketing and led, you know, full stack marketing teams for most of my career.
Michelle Denogean:I'm the person that goes to the conference and knows everybody, meets everybody. And I can bring a relationship to the table like there's nobody's business and then, you know, introduce them to the person that is actually going to when they're ready. Right? Because I am always that person who's like, well, if if you if you think you want what we have, like, you know, I'm happy to talk about it, but let's talk about your your business and the problems that you have today. You know?
Michelle Denogean:Very much more holistic. And so I need to have that person by my side that can be like, oh, you know, have you met have you met Tiffany Anne or whoever? Like, you know? Yeah. Have you met this person?
Michelle Denogean:Let me introduce you. And I I think it is really just knowing yourself, honestly, just being very aware of what your strength is and where you need those other people around you to complete you, to build your business.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Right. Yeah. It's interesting. You know, we we talked at the beginning about, you know, early on people building their businesses and and different things that were super popular. When I started in my business, the Facebook group was the thing.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Everybody needed a Facebook group. Now knowing that I'm not the connector, so, you know, we start this Facebook group and and we're going in and at the same time we were actually running a 12 month mastermind and we would have all, like, weekly calls and and whatnot. And one of my good friends was on some of these calls, and I I wanna solve the problems. It's like, you know, let's bring the problems to the calls. Let's solve them.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Let's keep going. Let's keep going. And and so and I was like, there was there was such a it was draining for me to try and connect on an ongoing weekly basis. And I said to my my good friend who is a part of the mastermind, and I I said, you know, I feel like there's just so much discussion about, you know, like the personal and, you know, I'm fighting with my husband and therefore I can't and I and I I'm like, I'm not qualified to tell you what to do about your fighting with your husband. I mean, like, I I don't know.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:This is not me. Do we have Well, why am I gonna do it?
Michelle Denogean:We're doing terrible problems here.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:And I know you're laughing because but it was it was exhausting for me because I was doing things that were outside of who I really was. And so, you know, in the end I decided, hey, we're not doing a Facebook group because this is not like, I'm not good at this and you're not really enjoying this because I'm not good at this and I am dreading doing it because this is not my thing. And so sometimes we have to really just decide which lane do we belong in. Because when you actually are in your own lane, then you can be so much more successful. And because burnout, doing things that are so far out of your I was like, I'm willing to be uncomfortable.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:I can do this. I'll figure it out. And it's like, okay. I did it and I could be uncomfortable. But in the end, is it it's you have to decide what actually makes the difference.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:What is actually driving success?
Michelle Denogean:Yeah. Agreed. And that is, you know, leading with your strength. And that's gonna always be an outsized effort than trying to do something that you're not.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Yes. Absolutely. So if if you had one tip for a business owner to you know, that they could go and they could implement right away, what would that be?
Michelle Denogean:Yeah. I would tell people to spend some time thinking about your blind spot. That would be my biggest tip. Like because it is the one thing that is in the way of you empowering teams, of you leading, you know, to greatness. And if you can really understand what that is for yourself, where the thing is that you just would rather do anything other than that, usually, that's where it lives.
Michelle Denogean:Like, if you make a list of 10 things and it's always at the bottom, no matter what you check off above it, you just keep, like, adding things above it. Usually, that is around where your blind spot is. And so if you can get in touch with that and understand that, then that's the first step for me in being an amazing leader and building a great company. So do the work. It is it is more of an a mental, emotional work than it is a, you know, one task that you can do, but I think it will pay dividends.
Michelle Denogean:And remember, every superpower has a blind spot. And so, you know, in, my book and on my website, you can read a little bit more about that. It's a fast path to that, but everybody has to do their own self discovery.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:So about that book and the quiz, where can people find them?
Michelle Denogean:Yeah. So the book is called Grow Up, Take Your Startup to the Next Level. It's grow up, one word, just like the word start up. It's a play on that word. That you can find on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, anywhere else that you would buy online, but, definitely, Amazon has it.
Michelle Denogean:I know that's where a lot of people buy books these days. My website is probably the best place to learn a little bit about me and, the book in my advisory services, and that is michelledenogene.com. And then so you can contact me there. You can also contact me on LinkedIn. That's where I do most of my my social living online social living.
Michelle Denogean:And that's just at Michelle Dennogene. You know, pretty pretty easy. Nice to have a unique last name. So
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:Yes. Yes. Perfect. And I will link those in the show notes as well. Michelle, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you, and I think that, blind spots and self awareness as we want to grow and scale any you know, whether that's from start up to next level or, you know, you've been doing this for a while and you are really looking to move it to the next level.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:You know, that that piece of, you know, what what really can I do as a business owner to make that difference self awareness? So I am to check out that quiz, and I encourage our listeners to do the same. And thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. While we are all out of time for today, if you can head on over to the Spotify or Apple podcast app, click the 5th star, and leave a written review.
Tiffany-Ann Bottcher:It really does help your show. Until next time. Have a great week.