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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[Music]
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast
it is a tremendous episode 76 I'm your
co-host mine passes in as always I'm
joined by none other than mr. mark is
freely good morning mr. mark good
morning mr. Mike it is a fantastic or
tum know sunny bright day in Sydney
isn't it and we mark we are about to
cast some super sunshine on to our
creative minds
tell us where do we go on this adventure
in learning from innovators while
learning continue our learning with mr.
Adam grant this week we're going to be
diving into his book originals how non
conformists move the world which is a
fantastic book and it's so interesting
to dive into the wealth of insights and
and actually tips productive and
proactive tips to work and build new
ideas challenge ourselves buck against
outdated traditions as he says it's a
fascinating large book full of great
things what did you think of well yeah I
think we're gonna shatter some myths
today but what's so nice about what
we've got in this second installment of
the Adam grant series is something that
is both inspirational and insanely
practical if you want to think
originally if you want to have great
ideas he is going to disrupt us over
this next hour he's gonna give us a turn
of not only practical practical tips but
he's gonna he's gonna open us up to
thinking different about thinking but
before we go there mark we are almost at
the hundred reviews and ratings mark the
podcast is flying all around the planet
these days what I want to ask all
our listeners to do is to jump into
their little podcast app and give us a
rating even better if you can if you've
got the time give us a review because
this is how other people discover our
show and how they can enjoy the journey
of learning from innovators but Mack
that's not the only thing we would like
all of our listeners to do we would love
all of our listeners to go and check out
a humble little place online called
moonshots dot IO that is our our house
or our observatory as we do and we stare
at the moon and all the innovators
around us this is where we house
everything from upcoming episodes our
archive of 75 so far and all of the show
notes and great links to additional
documents like the Netflix culture Dec 4
when we were talking about Reed Hastings
for it yes yes there is a plethora of
information online and we'd love
everybody to go and check it out
exactly you can dig up any of the past
shows all the great show notes all of
the things the tools the inspiration the
practical tips to become just a bit more
like some of these amazing people like
Reed Hastings Michelle Obama but today
we dive into the second installment of
Adam grin and we are diving into his
thinking around his book originals and
we are going to set you up right now for
one of his most disruptive ideas when he
thinks and considers the question who
can be an original thinker I think a lot
of us assume that original thinkers are
just a separate class of people right
there the the Steve Jobs is of
Technology they're the people we admire
as just cut from a different cloth and
the rest of us so they might be
entrepreneurs or scientists or artists
but they're they're visionaries right
they were born that way that's a great
idea with one tiny wrinkle it isn't true
so it turns out that anyone can become
more original right originality is not a
fixed rate it's a free choice and it's a
choice we make any time we say look
there's a default way of doing things
and then start to question whether that
default makes sense right one of the
most dangerous sentences in the English
language is this is the way we've always
done things and we can all be original
if we just question that I didn't say
maybe the way that we've always done
things doesn't make sense or doesn't
make sense anymore or is not the most
effective or worthwhile way to do this
and so you know I really see this course
is being about helping anyone who's
interested in solving problems in the
world figure out how to bring more
creativity and more change to those
problems it's a free choice I love that
there's this is a really central to the
idea I think of Adams book originals
it's all about challenging this default
or perhaps not necessarily challenging
intentionally but not accepting the
default so to be an original and again
we'll come on to lots and lots of grey
clips today as we go through the n-word
but for me that's a pretty central pin
within defining yourself as an original
thinker you aren't just going along with
the default setting whether it's you
know pre-installed software web browsers
and so on or not you're making that
choice yourself you're making that wrong
at anytime and you're choosing to look
at a challenge or a thing in your life
or things around us and think okay well
maybe it could be better I couldn't
agree more my the the the inspiration
that lies in this advice is Adam grant
is saying you have the choice you have
the mindset and the capability of
questioning the status quo of
challenging the status quo and original
thinking and great ideas come from the
first step which is to ask why should
that be that kind of sucks and what's so
beautiful about this is if you look
specifically at people that we've had on
this show
there are many people who have actually
challenged the status quo with original
thinking I mean Elon Musk is the easy
one but actually if you step back and
even if you look at Richard Branson he
looks at solutions whether it's music
level banks and says well this kind of
sucks why should it be like that and he
goes around asking why and I think that
if we can truly embody this idea that it
is a choice to think differently it is a
choice to think originally everything's
on the table everything's up for
discussion and what's interesting is his
story in this clip was was reminding us
that we have the permission to do it
because we forget we just accept the
status quo we forget to challenge it for
years and years and years everybody
accepted crappy cab services all around
the world maybe with the exception of
London and then who became a lot hmm you
know bookstores were selling books for
hundreds of years and then someone came
along and said let's do it differently
and created Amazon I think how inspiring
is Adams thought I think it challenges
us to go out and to challenge the world
to question the world and I think this
is a start of a great journey he's he's
in saying to us go out and be curious
ask why I think this is so good for
those of us that are listening to this
and need a little bit of a an espresso
shot need a little bit of a turbo charge
to go out there and ask why I think here
is the inspiration I totally agree and
you know choices as you say it's
empowering you know to know that you
don't just have to have to accept not
being an original thinker you know it's
very very easy to think oh well this
genius is reserved with people like
Branson or Elon Musk or Steve Jobs
they're the original not me I'm just
doing my job day to day but actually
when I start to think hey no but if I've
got the choice to go and be an original
thinker I'd suddenly feel empowered and
actually more confident to maybe go and
try things I haven't done before maybe
look at challenges in a different way I
think it's only it's great that's the
perfect that is the perfect thought to
get us to this next clip mark because in
this next clip
what he effectively is doing is saying
okay alright so you know you want to
think differently don't for a minute
think that this is a question of having
one idea and that's the one
in fact he's got quite a contrarian
thought built out of lots and lots of
research which really really sets us up
for the following idea it's not about
the quality it's about the quantity I
always thought that like the great
originals and history of creative
musicians artists scientists and more
recently business thinkers and leaders I
thought what they did was they had a
couple of big ideas and then they
refined them to perfection and the data
tell the opposite story that the great
originals throughout history did not
actually have few ideas they had tons of
them and way more than most of their
peers so if you look at musicians for
example Mozart Bach Beethoven their
average hit rate is not any higher than
many composers who never heard of what
differentiates them is they just came up
with a lot more ideas so six hundred
over a thousand and a couple of those
cases and the reason for that is you
have to generate a lot of variety to be
original and if you just come up with a
few ideas your first few are usually the
most obvious you've got to rule out the
familiar in order to get to the novel
but most people never do that they fall
in love with their first idea or they
end up just questioning whether they
have the ability to come up with more
ideas and so I think one of the things
we need to be doing more often as
leaders is encouraging people to
generate lots and lots of ideas knowing
that you're gonna spew out a lot of
garbage in order to get greatness oh
such a challenging idea it's really
really challenging what we all accept
nowadays as the norm you know quality is
really what we're all striving for we're
striving rather than you know wasting
our time creating lots of ideas we
should actually focus on one business
product or concept and refine it work on
it tweak it and so on but actually what
Adams saying here is
the opposite which is go like crazy make
as much as you can prototype and create
as much as your hands can do and then
gradually you'll get out that the the
weaker ones initially yeah and then
you'll find that perfect product down
the line once you've iterated and
prototypes a lot of ideas think that's
great
I totally relate to that like don't you
find that when you are sitting down and
doing some sort of brainstorming and
creative thinking exercise the first few
ideas are always let's be honest they
kind of warm-up acts yeah but what
happens is you get a turn up on the
board and then you start saying oh this
is sort of a pattern to the ones that
you're drawn to and you start combining
Andry mixing them and it's not only it's
not until you've like warmed up for 20
minutes then the really profound
insights start to come and then ideas
because you're embodied in it and so
he's like saying go for a go for a lot
of ideas but what what he suggested
there that I really want to pull out is
he's telling us to try a lot of
different ideas not just conceptual
ideas but actually make them happen
because in the book he referenced you
know great artists and musicians you'll
actually find that it's the most
prolific ones are the most successful he
uses Picasso as an example where what
you don't realize about Picasso is he
had one over 1,800 paintings over 2,800
ceramics and 1,200 sculptures and wait
for this this is not a fudge 12,000
drawings talk about a production machine
being prolific in your ideas and your
work and if in the first clip he was
giving us permission to think
differently I feel like the take out for
us mark he was giving us permission to
fail try don't be so precious with your
ideas otherwise the idea is going to sit
in a cupboard somewhere and you go in
and you polish it a bit and then put it
away he's I think he's celebrating this
idea of get it out there fail fast learn
fast be prolific and then the mastery or
you know if we talk about ideas the big
idea will come so if you think about
where you're at mark do you feel like
your biggest blocker is the permission
to challenge the status quo or is your
biggest challenge to be prolific hmm I
think for me my biggest challenge is
accepting this permission to challenge
the the norm hmm you know so to have
this permission to go against maybe what
I assume would be the right answer
perhaps wedded in this idea of coming up
with the key idea first you know I have
a tendency to to try and deliver things
almost as quickly as I can and then
refer haps reflect backwards in thing uh
but was that the best it could be so I
feel as though I'm maybe toeing the line
of what alumns trying to say but my
problem for me is that then I would
deliver maybe those first couple of
ideas that Adams saying aren't gonna be
the strongest yeah yeah I mean look at
the way I process that mark
is my experience is that my best ideas
are those where I just spew a lot out
but also to your point there take some
time with them
don't-don't-don't Russian because your
first idea is often not your best and I
think this is starting to create a
framework for up for us because he's
saying yes go for it challenge the
status quo and don't be too precious
when you do it just have a have a whole
bunch of ideas and really blitz it and I
think with those two in mind you can
feel that you've got now got a body of
work to judge to question to evaluate
you've got a ton of ideas on the board
then and that's already
through for all of us isn't it yeah it
really is so bearing in mind those two
you know approaches I think the next
clip that we're going to listen to is
Adam suggesting to us if you are with
the right mindset cultivating this
behavior within the business and you've
got people thinking the right way
they've got the permission to challenge
and the permission to essentially fail
how do they then be able to judge the
ideas that are created eventually in a
good non subjective way because it was
too long who would read a children's
book that was hundreds and hundreds of
pages but that's not the right way to
evaluate an original idea what you want
to do is ask is this going to appeal to
the audience as opposed to is this
similar to what's come before so who do
you turn to if you can't trust yourself
and you can't rely on your managers who
tend to be a little bit risk-averse
peers fellow creators there's an amazing
study by Justin Berg a Stanford
professor who looks at circus
performances thinks Cirque de Soleil so
he collects all these original acts done
by different kinds of circus artists
jugglers dancers acrobats and he asked
people to evaluate their own
performances and then you have some
managers to evaluate them as well and
then he has performers judge each
other's videos and sure enough people
are horrible at judging their own the
managers tend to be way too close to the
most novel acts and the best forecasters
are the performers judging each other's
performances we need to do to become
better at judging ideas is we need to
teach herself to think more like
creators so the way that Justin does
this is he has people generate a few
ideas of their own right before they
evaluate somebody else's ideas and be in
that mindset of generating new
possibilities and thinking creatively
actually increases your openness to
novel performances yeah so I think what
I take from this Marc is that feeling of
don't always go to your manager to your
boss with your ideas but first seek out
feedback from people that are in your
environment your pee
as being really good not any givers and
providers of feedback but I think they
can help you make your idea go from good
to great so then you can take it in a
much more complete and in a much more
solid fashion to all of those key
stakeholders that you need to go to and
I think when I when I process this what
I witness a lot is people actually
reluctant to share their ideas the
classic one for me is people saying I'm
not going to tell you my idea unless you
sign an NDA and anybody who's got any
experience at all knows that you can
have a million ideas and share them but
it's all about executing a business idea
and if you are truly sensing and feeling
how to build a business then the more
people you get excited about your idea
the more fortune that comes your way and
so I I think this third step is seek out
contribution and feedback from those
around you don't hoard your idea don't
be guarding it jealously what did you
get out of this idea of finding the
right peers to to help build your ideas
Matt well you know similar to the the
last two clips we're saying the first
one was this sort of permission to
challenge second one was you know Adam
telling us there is you have the
permission to fail like you say with
this one it's the permission to go and
seek collaborate co-creators and
collaborators to help you further the
idea for me I love to get to a point
with a product or a project and then try
to take somebody through it because I
believe that by and this is especially
true actually I find when I have a
challenge and by challenge I'm referring
to a problem a blocker once I raise that
blocker or once I try to describe my
personal issue with it the personal you
know challenge or grating or abrasion
with it I sometimes find that I've
the answer as I'm describing the problem
oh yeah are you saying that experiences
as you're actually sharing the idea and
actually ideas start coming to literally
as you're talking correct exactly so as
soon as you engage those parts of your
brain and try to eloquently describe
your idea or perhaps it's the challenge
like I say you know in a funny sort of
way your brain kicks into overdrive and
it almost answers that question or that
challenge as you are describing it once
your brain is starting to put that
jigsaw together so I'm trying to tell
you the idea suddenly it clicks and I
can see the big wider picture and that's
why I see the real value in what Adams
saying here which is get your peers to
weigh in they'll help you judge that
idea without your own personal
subjective opinion spoiling it you know
they have fresh eyes there's another
favor I love that a fresh set of eyes on
your idea and we're sort of you know
really now starting to build some of
those foundational Basics in how we can
how we can really give ourselves
permission to think originally and
knowing that it takes time it takes
effort it takes collaboration it takes
volume it takes a real lot of volume and
the interesting thing when I think about
this is that giving your permission just
to let any idea come out it almost blows
off the cobwebs and then you can just
produce and then pretty soon you you
build a rhythm of your ideas as you type
them or write them or sketch them and
then go take the best ones to your peers
and get their feedback and and see that
as a building exercise to go forward
again and I really I think we've we've
pat on the back to ourselves I really
like the flow that we've got here it's
almost like we're really going through a
step-by-step
Guide to get the very best of Adam
grants thinking from from originals but
Matt before we go into the second half
of the show I mean we've got it we've
got to say a big thank you to all the
people that have been reviewing the show
we really do appreciate it we also want
to give a big shout out because we've
popped up in all sorts of different
wonderful places in the world so just
check out this mark we've popped up in
the in we're looking at the top hundred
charts on uncharted all and we've popped
in on the the top charts for the
Netherlands for entrepreneurship Austria
South Africa we're new in Hungary the
UAE I mean how cool is this market I
mean who would have thought that
learning from innovators would be a
message that people all around the world
are keen to hear to understand to help
make the very best version of themselves
it's super inspiring isn't it it is it's
it's so inspiring when we sit back and
we can see this this growth and this
listenership of all of you listeners
checking out what we're recording every
week and it's fantastic when we start to
see that reflected in charts and
appearances and so on because it just
shows that it is a global conversation
there is a dial or even though we're
recording into our mics there is this
dialogue and this desire and the world
to learn from these inspiring
individuals and innovators you know
that's winter and they get a kick out of
it and we're glad that all of our
listeners are too which is fantastic so
I've got a bit of an idea to pitch to
you Matt before we go out and do a
three-part series are on Gary Vander
Chuck I'm thinking if we want to think
about mindsets and what we can learn
from innovators I want to throw out this
question to you and our audience about
doing a special episode a Michael Jordan
one of the greatest athletes to ever
live because what has been crazy as I've
enjoyed the last dance what has really
reminded me of is that more than
anything it was his mindset that made
him so great and I think there's a lot
to learn there so I wonder Mike what do
you think and what do you our listeners
think do you want to mark and I to dive
into the world of Michael Jordan because
there's a lot there but Mark have you
got your Nikes on would you be ready to
dive into Michael Jordan what do you
think I do have my Nikes on actually
yeah you're right I tell you what I
think I I'm fully behind this idea
because it just proves that you don't
have to be wedded in business to be an
innovator as a whole the whole of
moonshots we've covered so many
individuals over there over the last
couple of years
lady gaga you know a lot of people in
the music space we've covered a lot of
people in investors and business and so
on but I'd love so you actually go and
explore Michael Jordan and what he has
to say that the mindset and the
discipline that keeps that kept him
going for so long in the Chicago Bulls
and all of his professional career it is
a source of inspiration hmm it really is
so I want you our listeners send us an
email mark what is our famous moonshot
email address hello at moonshot dot IO
tell us what you think Michael Jordan
show yes or no if we get enough positive
feedback from you our listeners we will
do a quick segue before we get to Gary
Vee and go deep into the world of
Michael Jordan let's get it on fanta
okay we got three more clips and now
we're gonna get into the finessing the
that some of the fine-tuning you can do
if you build on those first three ideas
of you've got permission to think
differently have lots of ideas seek the
feedback of your peers now we're going
to go into some of the finer points
of original thinking so let's have a
listen to Adam grant talking about how
procrastination can play a role in
original thinking there's a very fine
line but to him creative procrastination
and laziness and I think the biggest
difference is about why you're putting
off or delaying your work so if you're
putting off work because it's really
difficult and unpleasant and there are
many other things that you would enjoy
doing that's rarely productive when
procrastination is productive though is
when you say I'm working on something
and it's hard and I haven't figured it
out yet and I need some time to incubate
and then you're focusing on other things
that I hope you're doing productively
and then when you come back to the
problem you're trying to solve
creatively you may have some new ideas I
think the other big difference here is
if you think about start times and
finish times on tasks what I've noticed
over and over again and the data that
colleagues and I have collected is that
great original thinkers are often quick
to start but slow to finish so they dive
into a problem early they're excited to
make progress on it but they don't rush
to complete it because they know that
oftentimes the best ideas will come
later when they've really had some time
to reflect and so I would say one good
strategy to follow is to try to make a
bunch of progress early and then I
actually do this when I write I will
send a first draft of an article or a
book chapter to somebody who I know is
really slow in giving feedback instead I
have to wait three weeks or so and by
the time I get the feedback I have a ton
of new perspectives and end up rewriting
much of it anyway even if the feedback
didn't tell me - so I'm delaying the
completion of tasks is a great way to
make procrastination a little more
productive yeah there is such a thing as
being a creative procrastinator and I do
find that people who procrastinate
sometimes are more likely to have
original ideas than people who do
everything early or everything at the
last minute there's that there's a very
effective productive middle ground
[Music]
mm-hmm so Adam once again challenging
the norm and the best bit is he has the
data to back him up yeah and what is
fascinating that him Brene brown cow new
poet Jim Collins they are all so crisp
in their thinking their thinking is
original because they do the work on the
data just I mean that's a total aside
that distract me there but mark he's
telling you start the work start the
idea early I think that is super
powerful don't you well isn't it great
it reinforces the old childhood behavior
of when you're sitting in front of an
exam you read all of the questions first
everything you don't just exactly take a
breath because actually and it this is
true whether it's it's maths healthcare
whatever I know plenty people who have
done it in their lives when you come
back to a problem that you've already
read sometimes it your brains had time
to sort of percolate and prose and it's
come up with the answer so you know
building on what Adam was teaching us
earlier about pushing hard early getting
all the other you know half-baked ideas
out of the way early and then
reinforcing it here by saying make that
early progress and evolve based on what
you've I guess learned up to that point
and don't be afraid to have that moment
of letting it you know pre a sit around
and stir inside your brain you know I
like this creative procrastination idea
of taking stock coming back to it maybe
even sleeping on it we discussed that
before on the show I quite a lot from
Adam here what do you think he might so
I'm just trying to think of how this
relates to some of my practices because
I've had this same discovery Matt like
for example if I need to produce a big
strategic recommendation to a client if
I need
to make a master class if I need to
write a really deep extensive case study
on an innovative company I'm very
conscious of what I call the one week
rule if the piece of work is due in one
week I need to be able to write some
sort of outline a week before the
deadline and what you remember is and
you'll have experienced even recently I
will actually share with you an outline
of what I'm thinking and it may be ten
bullet points it's sort of just a flow
of my idea or my argument and it's sort
of a rough model but if I make that
breakthrough a week before it's due that
gives me enough time to kind of let
things chew and I can fill out those
ideas and the crazy thing is usually
that outline is about 80% what ends up
being the outline in the final product
but the real difference is all of the
the depth and the rigger fills out
beautifully because I just had time and
what's really interesting is when I
don't have that time I always feel less
confident in what I've written or
produced because if I only started
working on it two days before it was due
invariably
I feel like it's a bit rushed the
quality of the thinking is a bit rushed
I mean how do you relate to it when he
says you know start early I mean that's
how I do it how do you think about this
starting early
I like to start early because my brain
is still engaged in that camp
you know if I'm if I'm distilling your
process which you're right I I've
experienced many times what you create
is a foundation hour a skeleton based on
that information that meeting that
telephone videoconference whatever it
might be and what I like about the
process here that we're discussing is
once you've got that skeleton it's a lot
easier to fatten it up
add the the muscle and the fat and the
flesh around as its had time to to exist
you've had time to reflect on data on
the market on the client themselves and
actually it can only get better because
you've already got that Foundation which
is providing the grounding of what
you're going to build upon so for me I
like to get everything I like to a bit
of a brain dump after I've spoken to a
client after I've done let's say a week
of research we're doing some in market
research right now with one of our
clients and at the end of each week or
at the end of each milestone I'll make
sure to scribble everything that's in my
head down on paper so then when I go
into the next week or so I haven't
forgotten anything
you know fundamentally I think when
there's a lot of plate spinning you have
the danger of dropping some so I like to
ensure that I know myself I'm not going
to drop anything because I have written
things down and I've had that skeleton
existing somewhere and it can only be
hmm
it's so true the the if I was to implore
you and all of our listeners I cannot
tell you when how important is for me to
have that time to work on an idea and I
really feel like when you know when
people come to us and say I'll listen we
need this in an unfairly like short
timeline my gut reactions I just know
that the idea and the thinking and the
work will just not be as good as it
could be if I don't follow the one-week
rule and so I hope that for all of our
listeners if they know if you know
you've got to deliver something don't
start at the day before because before
you know it you're chasing you're just
chasing but you're just not doing a
service to all of your potential
creativity if you just don't give
yourself time to think to wonder and to
be curious
a big part of that finessing is
tinkering and actually we've got this
great clip from Adam grant that really
speaks to curiosity so let's have a
listen to Adam grant talking about
fortune favoring the curious one of the
most common phrases I hear from
entrepreneurs is it's too late I'm too
old I should've started my business a
long time ago and you know I'm just not
a young kid anymore
I can't do it and I'd love to come back
and say actually if you look at the data
you were completely wrong on this
the average patent applicant is 47 the
most valuable patents often come from
people for over 55 the way that we
sustained our creativity over time is
not through all of a sudden having a
vision and then immediately knowing what
to do with it it's through tinkering
experimenting going down rabbit holes
and trying ideas that we never would
have considered before if you think
about it right a lot of creativity comes
from moments that are the opposite of
deja vu there's actually a name for them
they're called a Johnny
and vooshnod day is that that feeling
that we all love where you look at
something you've seen many times before
but suddenly you recognize it with fresh
eyes and we all need to have more of
those and the easiest way to have them
is to immerse yourself in a new domain
even hobbies you pick up can really
matter so if you look at Nobel
prize-winning scientists you will find
that Nobel Prize winners are
significantly more likely to have
artistic hobbies than their peers and
those seem to play a role in
breakthrough insights and innovations
and Galileo first astronomer despot
mountains on the moon but not the first
astronomer to look through a telescope
and see those exact images he was just
the first one to recognize them wife he
was trained in a drawing technique that
involved the use of shading to represent
changes in elevation and when he saw a
different dark and light spots in the
moon
he realized those had to be mountains so
just pursuing a hobby that's a little
bit outside of your comfort zone can
often give you a new lens for seeing and
that can help you become more creative
however old you are whoo I've genuinely
feel like I want to go and run around
the office after after hearing that
little don't you feel like you just want
to get like a t-shirt with vuja de una
cosa the top I think Adams like totally
into a bit of Vosges a day but mark how
crazy was that galileo story uh hits
again what I love about Adam is all of
these great stories are backed up by
data you know and then he think I'm
really getting especially from that clip
then he's actually and the reason why I
want to run around the office it kind of
feels like relief I think when you're
surrounded by culture and media and
incredible innovators like Elon Musk and
Zuckerberg all these individuals who
have cracked things and you know they
are mind-blowing ly well known around
the world
you almost think ah I'm too old for it
now I'm 32 well you know what have I
done
and actually Heather what's nice don't
worry I don't feel like that much but
the listeners you do and it what's nice
about Adam is he's saying look the most
valuable patterns that people have had
are often when you're over 55 years
because Eve's that time becoming an
expert in in your your particular field
perhaps but also you've had time to
experiment but also pick up hobbies and
that for me is the is the really
inspiring bit and and it's just fun you
know it reminds us that yes you can pick
up hobbies if you feel like you want
that bit of variety but what Adams
proving here again through data is the
best way to you know cultivate this this
successful gene shall we say is by
experimenting and seeing things with
fresh eyes Gujjar day yeah it's it's a
reminder that you know this classic
concept of the Renaissance man the
Renaissance woman who is both full and
complete in Arts and Sciences are those
that will thrive the most because they
have such a rich set of experiences and
mental models to draw upon in order to
apply to any problem and I just I just
find it really inspiring to think that
you know the average Nobel Prize winner
is like 30 percent more likely to to
have a musical and artistic pursuit I
mean there are all of these real data
points that prove to you that you know
this crazy you know original thinking is
really sourced from folks that are
tinkering and experimenting both in and
outside of the problem area that they're
putting their attention to and it really
is a reminder not to sit here and think
oh I'd really like to try sculpture
drawing music singing yoga whatever it
is don't just think it go out and do it
I think that's the call to action isn't
it
100% it's not just go and try because
you want to instead I think what Adams
saying is garden try because there's
any in a benefit in every aspect of your
life and if anybody is listening and
thinking oh yeah I really should go and
pick up that life drawing class now's
the time to go and do it yes let's go
yeah absolutely so it gets us to what
I'm gonna label is the most caffeinated
clip that we have from Adam grant he
this final clip is him on an absolute
tear and the reason that we've left this
one to last is this is him in his most
positive mindset possible but he's
totally energized and what he's going to
do in this last and final clip is really
pieced together his whole idea around
original thinking and this is the chance
for everybody listening to the show to
sit back and to really take in what he
has to give us because in a knowledge
economy ideas are everything and he is
giving us the chance to be original
thinkers to be agents of change so let's
get into the final clip the very last
clip of Adam grant
I've been studying people that I come to
call originals originals are non
conformists people who not only have new
ideas but take action to champion them I
want to show you today three things I've
learned about recognizing originals and
becoming a little bit more like them I
had a student named ji-hae who came to
me and said I have my most creative
ideas when I'm procrastinating so I
challenged her to get some data she goes
into a bunch of companies she has people
to fill out surveys about how often they
procrastinate then she gets their bosses
to rate how creative and innovative they
are here are results you actually do see
that the people who wait till the last
minute don't have any new ideas and on
the flip side the people who race in are
in such a frenzy of anxiety that they
don't have original thoughts either
there's a sweet spot where originals
seem to live why is this to find out we
ask people to generate new business
ideas and some of
are asked to do the task right away
others we randomly assigned to
procrastinate by dangling minesweeper in
front of them for either 5 or 10 minutes
the moderate procrastinators are 16%
more creative than the other two groups
procrastination gives you time to
consider divergent ideas a lot of great
originals in history were
procrastinators what about Martin Luther
King jr. he's sitting in the audience
waiting for his turn to go onstage and
he is still scribbling notes and
crossing out lines well you see with a
lot of great originals is that they are
quick to start but they're slow to
finish look at Google waiting for years
after AltaVista and Yahoo look at
Facebook waiting to build a social
network until after of myspace to be
original you don't have to be first you
just have to be different and better a
lot of original people look confident
but behind the scenes they feel the same
fear and doubt that the rest of us do
they just manage it differently this is
a depiction of how the creative process
works for most of us the key to being
original instead of saying I'm crap you
say them just not there yet
Buju days when you look at something
you've seen many times before and all of
a sudden see it with fresh eyes
it's a screenwriter who looks at a movie
script they can't get the green light
for more than half a century jennifer
leigh rewrites the first act reinvents
the villain as a tortured hero and
frozen becomes the most successful
animated movie ever when you filled out
don't let it go the things we wish we
could redo if you look at the science
are the chances not taken Elon must told
me recently he didn't expect Tesla to
succeed but it was too important not to
try the greatest originals
are the ones who fail the most cuz
they're the ones who try the most take
classical composers the best of the best
why does some of them get more pages
than encyclopedias than others one of
the best predictors is the sheer volume
of compositions that they generate the
more output you turn out the more
variety you get and the better your
chances of stumbling on something truly
original if we want to be more original
we have to generate more ideas look
being original is not easy but I have no
doubt about this it's the best way to
improve the world around us thank you
oh and thank you Adam grant you're right
what a caffeinated clip but it's so
meaty so yeah it was like he was sitting
there he says I'll just summarize the
whole book for Marcus no rats really
sure we could burn an entire episode
around that one actually oh my gosh but
from for me you know we've talked about
some of the platform that he created at
the beginning the show with you've got
permission to think differently have a
lots of ideas seek out your peers and
then we had some refinements you know
take your time start early
tinker away but for me I really love
this idea of in that clip he gave just a
little nudge to an idea if you don't
have to be the first just better and I
think that's really really powerful
that often there are lots of ideas there
were lots of attempts at doing Facebook
before Facebook happened so Apple is the
king of not being first but just being
better and I think we can see this
pattern all around us mark let me ask
and let me challenge you what was the
biggest surprise the biggest as we've
put the show together and recorded it
together what's the one thing that
you're like this is really new for me
well I mean this time I'm going to
struggle to choose just one you know I
was scribbling as we were listening to
that last clip and you know like I say
we could have met an entire episode
around that because references so many
examples of this original thinking
existing this of Hoosier day approach
being intrinsic throughout everybody
from Martin Luther King by Picasso all
the way through to frozen it's a
wonderful idea but for me if I had to
sum it into one thought I think it's
bulk or sorry buck any
traditions or defaults that you
naturally fall into don't for me I'm
gonna challenge myself rather than just
accept things as as default accept
things as owed this is just the way it
could go in doesn't it our thing okay
well how about how about this way and
then I'll let it percolate let it sit a
bit then I'll come back to it and
revisit it and just take time with those
ideas because I think that's where this
as he says in that last clip the 16%
more creative is when you find that
sweet spot yes between procrastination
and acting fast absolutely absolutely
well thank you to you Matt because
you've you really summarized for
yourself the biggest take out which
which is he's giving you permission to
challenge the status quo and for all of
our listeners whether you like the idea
of lots of ideas or seeking feedback
from your peers or tinkering or starting
early whatever resonated for you just go
to moonshots dot IO and you can find all
the show notes you can listen to the
show again you can listen to the back
catalogue and you can immerse yourself
in a world of innovators and learn all
of their tips tricks habits or their
mindsets to getting the most out of
themself and having impact in the world
mark I feel turbocharged I don't need
any more espresso how about you I I'm
gonna go and find Adam grin and have
whatever he's been drinking no I'm
actually positive Lee enlivened after
after this episode Adam Adams the next
one
wonderful so we're all turbocharged here
at the moon shots podcast we hope you
our listeners all over the world we're
so grateful for your emails for your
love on social for all your reviews and
ratings make sure you hit moonshots
don't I owe
fact that you won it's been great having
you mark it's been great to share Adam
grant our second part of the series all
of our list is we've got one more left
so stay tuned but for now that's the
merge of podcast and that's Aram