Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

Presenting complex information for your audience to understand.

As communicators, we often need to take complex information (e.g., financial, technical, or scientific) and make it more understandable for our audience – we’re experts and they likely aren’t. But having so much knowledge on the topics we discuss can often make the job more difficult: we dive in too quickly, forget about our audience's needs, or use jargon that goes over their heads. 

In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, strategic communications lecturers Matt Abrahams and Lauren Weinstein explore the “curse of knowledge” and offer specific techniques you can use to be more successful in getting your point across.

Episode Reference Links:
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Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (02:35) - Where Complexity Breaks Down
  • (03:48) - Start With the Audience
  • (04:50) - The Power of Analogy
  • (07:51) - The “Chunking” Technique
  • (09:46) - Make Data Relatable
  • (11:56) - The Final Three Question
  • (15:19) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Lauren Weinstein
Communication + Transformation Coach

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.
Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

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Matt Abrahams: Hi.

Matt here.

Our world is getting
more and more complex.

When communicating about complexity
we need to work to make ideas

accessible rather than simply
dumb things down or oversimplify.

We're diving into our archive to bring
you a Rethinks episode where I speak

with Lauren Weinstein about specific
techniques we can use to help our audience

better understand our complex topics.

Enjoy one of our very first, but
still very relevant episodes.

We've all been in situations where
someone explained something to us that

went over our heads or didn't land
because it wasn't relevant or meaningful.

I'm Matt Abrahams.

I teach strategic communication at
Stanford's Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

In this episode, we'll chat with
Lauren Weinstein as we explore specific

techniques you can use to help your
audience understand the complex

information that you need them to.

In other words, we hope to find the
antidote to the curse of knowledge.

Hey, Lauren, how are you doing?

Lauren Weinstein: Great.

Glad to be with you here today.

Matt Abrahams: Like me, Lauren
is a lecturer at Stanford's

Graduate School of Business.

Together for over five years,
we've co-taught a class on

strategic communication.

In addition to this work, she also
has a very popular TEDx talk called

Don't Believe Everything You Think.

So Lauren, as teachers and coaches
we often have to explain complex

ideas so others can understand them,
but lots of other folks also have to

take complex technical or scientific
information and make it accessible.

Can you talk about some of the
examples you use in class that you've

seen where people need to do this?

Lauren Weinstein: Yes.

I see this all the time.

I see it with doctors, scientists,
researchers, when they need to

communicate their content to
lay-audiences, whether it's at a

conference or they're seeking funding.

I see it a lot in business when
engineers have to communicate with

product managers, when marketing teams
need to communicate with customers, and

then also when executives and founders
need to communicate their strategy,

for example, to their org and get
everyone on board and in alignment.

And then also, of course, with startup,
they have constantly needing to

pitch investors and sell to customers
and make whatever their product or

service is more accessible for them.

Matt Abrahams: It sounds like
almost everybody has situations.

Lauren Weinstein: Yes.

Across the board.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

In our class we spend a lot
of time talking about being in

service of the audience rather
than just focusing on the content.

Do you wanna share a few of
your thoughts about being

audience-centric and what that means?

Lauren Weinstein: Yes.

Whenever I work with a new client,
no matter who they are or what

their topic is, the first question I
always ask is, who is your audience?

And what do they care about most?

Uh, and I'll give you an
example of why this matters.

In 2001, Apple and Steve Jobs
came out with the original iPod.

The engineers were really excited because
it was going to be five gigabytes of data.

So exciting for them.

But if they came out with this message to
audiences and customers, less exciting,

they didn't know what that means.

Is, is that a lot?

So instead they said a
thousand songs in your pocket.

Matt Abrahams: I remember that.

Lauren Weinstein: Yes.

So they spoke in a way that was
aligned with their audience's level of

knowledge and what they cared about.

They cared about how many songs they
could fit, and so it's really important

to speak in a way that's aligned with
your audience's level of knowledge, but

also in terms of what they care about most
and, and translating it to that extent.

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

And I think that example really
highlights how people can fixate

on the specific information rather
than thinking about what's relevant

and important to their audience.

It's really about what the audience needs.

Beyond that audience-centric approach,
uh, I've also found that people tend

to provide more information than is
needed to help their audience really

understand what they're saying.

You know, it reminds me, I, I know
I've shared this with you before,

my mother has this wonderful saying.

It's tell me the time,
don't build me the clock.

We really need to help people
get to the bottom line earlier.

We have to communicate concisely,
especially when we're dealing

with complex information.

You know, I think with this idea of
being audience-centric and concise, we

can really get into some of the specific
tools that folks can use to help make

their complex information more accessible.

Can you share with me an example of
someone you've worked with who did a

really good job explaining something
complex, to get us started looking

at these particular tools people use?

Lauren Weinstein: Yes.

Happy to.

I worked with a TED speaker a while back.

His talk was about a treatment that
he developed for age-related diseases

such as Alzheimer's and dementia.

When he first came to me, his first
draft talked a lot about mitochondria

and prokaryotic cells and cell membranes.

Which is really exciting for
him and other scientists.

But speaking to a lay-audience, a TED
audience, it was a bit too technical

for them and, and less engaging.

So first we had him start with a story.

He told the story of his father who
had Alzheimer's disease and what

it was like to see that decline.

He established a personal connection
and he started sharing his content

in a way that the audience could
really connect to and relate with.

Then he asked the audience questions, so,
how many of you, you know someone that's

suffered from Alzheimer's or dementia?

So again, creating more connection
with the audience to the topic.

And then finally we came up
with an analogy to explain

something that was pretty complex.

In our bodies, we have billions of
cells and each of these cells are

like tiny little individual cities.

And within these cities we have
factories, which are the mitochondria.

The job of these factories is to
take the oxygen we breathe and the

food we eat and convert it to energy.

The problem is that often our factories
face oxidative damage from toxins

and environmental stressors, and
this sets the factory walls on fire.

And so essentially the fires
become much bigger than the

firefighters in our body can handle.

So the fires become out of control.

The factory goes down and then
the entire city goes down.

And this is why we see the symptoms
of Alzheimer's, for example,

what he developed is a supplement
that, basically a fireproof brick.

So it comes in and repairs the factory
walls with this fireproof brick and

makes it more resistant to damage so
the factory can be saved as well as

even in some cases, um, rebuild itself.

So really incredible.

And my favorite part was right after
his talk, his daughter-in-law came

up to me and she said, for four
years I had no idea what he did.

I get it, this is amazing.

Thank you so much.

Matt Abrahams: Wow.

I love the notion of connecting
before going into the complexity,

helping the audience relate to
and understand, and there's an

emotional connection that happens.

So the taking a poll, the telling
a personal story, what a great

way to prepare the audience
for the complex information.

The leveraging of that extended
analogy really helps the audience

to take the perspective of the
overall information and see how those

fireproof bricks can really help.

Are there other techniques that
you've noticed beyond personal

story, beyond connecting first
and analogies that have worked for

clients or students that you've had?

Lauren Weinstein: Yes,
I'll share two with you.

One is I call chunking.

And so a lot of times we'll
have ten different things

that we wanna communicate.

And so recently I was
working with a speaker.

He was a coach for a lot of
different sports teams, and he's

known for helping turn them around.

And so he'd go to losing teams
and, and over a year or two,

he'd make them winning teams.

And so he started taking what he did
on the field into the business arena,

and now he'll speak to companies
and share what they can also do

to have higher performing teams.

And when we first started working
together, it was, here are the ten

things you should do, which is a lot.

It's a bit overwhelming.

So generally in speaking, in
communication, we have the rule of three.

Audiences are pretty good at digesting
three discrete buckets of things.

And so what we came up with is a
framework that was step number one.

You wanna get your team into alignment.

You wanna get them all on the same
page, heading toward the same North

star and, and get buy-in from them.

Then step two, you wanna have
certain processes in place.

And so he talked about celebrating
small wins, and he had a number of

other processes that are crucial.

And then step three had
to do with resilience.

So what do you do in the face of setbacks?

How do you recover from those?

And so by having alignment, process, and
resilience, he was able to make it a lot

more easily digestible for his audience.

Matt Abrahams: I think that idea of
chunking is really, really powerful.

In fact, I just worked with somebody
in a very similar vein where

there surprisingly were ten ideas.

And we were able to cluster them
together in terms of psychological,

technological, and ethical.

And, and really thinking about
how you can chunk similar

ideas together can be helpful.

I often use an analogy to explain that.

When, when you bake, for example, you
often take the dry ingredients and the

wet ingredients, you do your work with
them, and then you combine them together.

That's that notion of chunking.

You said there was another strategy
that you've seen used well?

Lauren Weinstein: Yes.

Great book called Made to
Stick, written by a colleague of

ours, Chip Heath, as you know.

And the example he uses, which I love,
has to do with making data more relatable.

The Center for Interest in the
Public health, at one point they

realized that movie popcorn had
thirty grams of saturated fat.

They were outraged,
and this is incredible.

We're gonna tell the public and
they're not gonna believe it.

They're gonna stop eating movie popcorn.

So they came out with this message
and as you might guess, nobody cared

because it didn't mean very much.

So thirty grams, is that a lot?

It, I guess it's bad.

How bad?

They needed to make it more relatable.

And so they went back, they, they hired
some folks and now they came out with,

movie popcorn has more saturated fat
than a bacon and eggs breakfast, a

hamburger and fries for lunch, and a steak
dinner with all the trimmings combined.

Matt Abrahams: Wow.

Lauren Weinstein: And
so, yeah, so incredible.

And so now people are outraged.

Now New York Times, CNN, ABC,
everybody's talking about this.

Movie popcorn sales plummet.

Um, and the industry is forced
to change their ingredients.

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

Very, very powerful example.

So in reflection, I, I think we're taking
away some very specific skills that people

can use to make complex technical and
scientific information more accessible.

We're talking about things like
chunking information together,

using analogies, making data
relatable and contextualizing it.

And begin by really understanding your
audience and what's the most important

things that you need to communicate.

And finally, connect first, relate to
the audience, use emotion, to get things

started, and that will help you as you
go through your complex information.

And before we go, I always like to
ask three questions of everybody

who helps with this podcast.

You mind if I give you
our top three questions?

Lauren Weinstein: Go for it.

Matt Abrahams: Alright, so number
one, if you were to capture the best

communication advice you've ever received
as a five to seven word presentation

slide title, what would that advice be?

Lauren Weinstein: It would
be connect, then lead.

For everyone listening, there's actually
a great article in Harvard Business Review

with the same title, but this idea, you
have to connect with the audience first.

You have to tap into what they care about,
make your message relatable, and then you

can take them where you want them to go.

But that connection first is, is crucial.

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

And we certainly talked
about that earlier.

Let me ask you question number two.

Who's a communicator that
you really admire and why?

Lauren Weinstein: I love Brené Brown.

Uh, again, for anyone listening, she
has an amazing special on Netflix

right now called Call to Courage, but
she does so many of the things that we

teach in our class, that I share with
my clients, in terms of storytelling,

making content accessible and relatable.

Uh, her style is just so
natural, authentic, very

conversational, beautiful delivery.

Uh, just very engaging to watch.

So, uh, I think she's a great
role model for anyone who's trying

to up their communication game.

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

She's very, very impressive.

And number three, what are the first
three ingredients that go into a

successful communication recipe?

Lauren Weinstein: I would say it's
asking yourself, uh, the following three

questions, which is, who is my audience?

What is my message?

And then, how can I bring that message
to life through stories and analogies?

Matt Abrahams: Wonderful.

I absolutely agree that that
recipe leads to, to great success.

Well, Lauren, it's been a pleasure
to chat with you in this modality.

I know we work together a lot
in a bunch of different ways.

Thank you for sharing your insight on
how to make complex information more

accessible, and I hope that everybody is
taking away some very specific tools that

can help you in any situation when you
have some really complex information that

you need to get across to your audiences.

Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about how to make complex
ideas more understandable, please

tune in to episode 49 with Chip Heath
or episode 91 with Valerie Fridland.

This episode was produced
by Katherine Reed, , Ryan

Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With special thanks to
Podium Podcast Company.

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