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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome. welcome in, we are going to get started in just a minute. just to tee things up, because this will be a podcast that's released on Monday, I'm gonna do a little intro, but again, I would encourage you just to interact, to make noise. It's okay. We embrace the fact that you are all here. We love the fact you're all here. And I have questions up, so again, if you keep sending in anything or think of anything along the way, we'll try and get to what we can get to. Okay, Are you guys ready? Here we go. Oh, Jamie's not on here. Do we need anything with that? That was a me problem. Whenever this comes on. Whenever is it? Well, let's make sure it's on. That is check. Not on. I'm told that I was Jimmy tonight, if that's helpful. Maybe it's because you're not Jimmy that it's not working. Just kidding. Not Jimmy enough. Oh, we got it now. I'm Jimmy enough for the microphone. They just needed to know that you were Jimmy. That's probably it. Okay, here we go. Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Each week, we sit down together as friends and we talk a little bit, we reflect on the message, and we figure out how to live out what it is that we are learning. We're gonna jump into it. My name is Stacey DiNardo. I'm joined today by Pastor Zach Zach Weihrauch and Pastor Jamie Hewitt and this is a live version that we're filming after the 7:30 service on a Thursday night. So if you have not been there, check that out, because there's always a Q and A. That is really amazing. and so today's gonna be a little different. We've got Pastor Zach with us. It's gonna be a little bit like a Q and A, Maybe a little bit like Beyond the Message, A little blend of both, as we're taking some questions that are even coming in today. So, to recap, though. Cause everyone here. You guys just heard the message, right? Yeah. But not everyone listening will have just heard the message. So to recap it, this is the first week in a series called More Wisdom, More Life. And. And in that, we're gonna be looking at different passages in proverbs. This first week was Proverbs 3, 5, 7, which is a passage a lot of us might know if you've been around church a while. And it reads this. Trust in the Lord with all Your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. Be not wise in your own eyes, Fear the Lord and turn away from evil. And there were three points to kind of guide the time. And then we'll be a part of this conversation. And the first is the life that God wants for you. And past made a great point that God wants us to have a flourishing life, but that comes from a, richness in our relationship with God, and that that richness is in him and through Him. But then secondly, that the biggest threat to that life, if we're honest about it, it's actually you and me. We are generally the ones that are always kind of getting in the way of ourselves. We lean on our own understanding instead of leaning and trusting in God. And there's a lot we can unpack in there. The failed diet, the failed workout, the failed scre. It's the things that we're trying to run from. In sin, we are often the problem. And then last is that the only path to victory, and the only path to victory being what we can see in Jesus. It's in Jesus, and he has proven himself and he has won our trust. so we're gonna start there. I'm gonna keep checking out questions coming in, but one that I wanted to start with, I thought is, the question came in, how do I trust God when I believe the truth in my mind, but my heart feels. Feels miles behind? Well, let me just say first, I'm glad we're not starting with what kind of animal do I wish I was? You know what? He doesn't like my icebreakers. Whatever we talk about this, whatever beyond. The message normally starts with, I think it depends on what you mean by head and heart. So what I would say is, if your heart is reluctant, because, in other words, if I know the right thing, but I don't want the right thing, I would give a different answer. If I know the right thing, but I don't trust God, I would give a different answer. So what I would say is, when there's a disconnect between the head and the heart, we want to try to tie them together. You know, we want to try to unite them. And so whatever it is, this is maybe a rule of thumb that I try to use with people. Usually when my heart doesn't want what God wants, it's because, I'm asking really hard questions of God that I'm not asking of anything else. In other words, like, let's say that I'm in a relationship that God doesn't want, that God is telling me to not be in. And that's hard for me because I want that relationship. what I would say is we have to ask hard questions of the other way, too. In other words, in that moment, we're saying, is God, I'm not sure I know you're God. I know you love me, I know you're wise, but I'm not sure I want what you want. I think we have to trace that out and say, well, what confidence do I have in myself that I know? In other words, what we're saying is I don't want what God wants because I want what I want. But the problem is we never stop and go, well, wait a minute, where has that gotten me before? And why wouldn't God want this for me? And why do I want what God doesn't want? And I think what we'll find is the more we actually ask ourselves some hard questions, the more I think we'll lose confidence in ourself and gain confidence in God. I don't know if you would. If I would disagree with that. No. Add to that you're not allowed to disagree with it. Just add to it. No, a disconnect between heart and mind. That if you're feeling that. Yeah, I think you do that. The burden of proof is like. Is the burden of proof on God, and he has fulfilled that in Jesus fully. The burden of proof for me is lacking every time I look. And so it's the resume. The more you look at it and you ask honest questions of, is this thing that I think is the answer actually going to fill me up time and time again? It's failed. Yeah. Well, it kind of goes to that second point of going, if we really can look at where things have failed in our lives, there is a common denominator. You know, this might not be the full blame, of course, there's lots of factors. But, yeah, I said this in the sermon, is that it somehow is true for me at least, that my track record when I listen to myself is actually pretty bad. But my confidence somehow in myself stays high. And I guess part of what I'm trying to say is maybe I ought to let my track record shake my confidence and say, well, maybe I can't yet see or can't yet believe that what God wants for me is good. But I might have an easier time of saying, but I know I shouldn't be listening to myself because I have a pretty Good resume of that not working out for me. I also think at, the heart of the question was, like, when I kind of sense what's right, but I don't understand it. I think trust is earned by trusting. And so in some sense, you take the step before it makes sense. A lot of times I think for myself is what I'm looking for. Is it to make sense, but it's actually the action that moves, that God has never let me down. There's a hymn that, Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus. And there's a line in it that says, how, I've proved Him or. And. Or over and over again. And the line is saying, like, every time I've trusted my life to him, he has never once let me down. Yeah. And I always tell people, really, I think that's when you really trust Jesus. if Jesus is leading you to do something that you agree, like, oh, that's wise. You're not trusting Jesus. You're agreeing with Jesus. You're not really trusting him. Until he tells you to do something. You're like, that's not the way I want to do it. That's not the way that I would do it. But I'll do it because you say so, and I think so. Sometimes we go around thinking of ourselves as trusting, when what we really mean is we're just focusing on the things we would naturally do that way anyways. It's when he wants me to go right and I would have gone left, that I really do actually practice trusting Him. and that's what the writer is saying. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. He's saying in that moment where those things diverge, go with God, not with yourself. Yeah, yeah. When I tell my kids, hey, eat your ice cream, that's not necessarily obedience. Great obedience on display. It's when I ask them to finish their peas or carrots if I was that cruel to feed them such a monster. but that's where you see obedience is actually when you don't want the thing and you say, not my way, but yours. Yeah. I think you guys maybe have kind of answered the next question I was going to ask, which is how can we determine whether or not. Oh, good job, good job. Without even knowing it before she. How do we know? Determine whether we're following our own path versus what God has laid out for us? yeah. Like, how do we know we're not just. We're pursuing our own comfort, our own success? Things are going well, how do we know when that crossroad comes, or. Yeah, two answers to that. I mean, you know, one is the writer says, in all your ways, acknowledge him. And I think that is a phrase that says, in every area of my life, I am asking him, do you have something for me here? And that's part of why we read the Bible. It's part of what we're gonna discover this summer in the Book of Proverbs is we're gonna find him saying things about, going into debt. We're gonna find him saying things about what kind of people we hang out with. And it's like, in those moments, and when he says, this is good, this is bad, we should acknowledge him. and then I think outside of the Scriptures, in line with the Scriptures is the presence of the Holy Spirit. So the Bible doesn't speak to every instance, obviously. But what it has said, the Spirit takes. What Jesus says in the gospel of John 14, 15, and 16 is that the helper, his name for the Holy Spirit, will take what Jesus has said and work it out into our lives. But I'll also say this. I think sometimes people feel like, well, if I want to acknowledge God, that means really sitting around and not doing anything until I know. And the Bible isn't saying, you're like, well, God, you know, what should I eat for lunch today? I won't eat anything until you tell me. It's like, no. I think sometimes we're not careful. That's a kind of spiritual misdirection to ignore what he has said. I think we need to focus on what he has clearly said. And I always tell people, when the Lord wants to communicate with you, he doesn't whisper. Like in Exodus when Moses has the burning bush and God says to Moses, I want you to go to Egypt. Moses says, I don't want to go. But he doesn't say, is that you, God? Like, it's a bush that's on fire that's not being consumed. When God speaks, you'll know it. You won't have to wonder about it. But in the absence of God speaking, you have freedom. So if God has not directly said, and you want to buy this house and not this one, you want to go eat this or not that, then by all means. Galatians 5:1 is for freedom that Christ has set us free. We don't worry about it. We make a choice. But where God has spoken, we obey. And the question is, do we have the humility to actually want God to show that to us? And So I think of the psalmist who says, search me God, and reveal if there's an unclean way in me. But it takes a certain humility and self awareness, to even ask that question and really mean it. Yeah, okay, here's, here's a little bit of a tough one or a difficult one at least for the person asking this. Everything and the things that I believe would give me richness in life. God has not granted me a spouse. I'll have a family. So how can I trust him when I try to, but I just can't see that he really wants richness for me. Great question. You trust him in the definition of richness? That's the answer. So Jesus Christ, of course, lived a life of complete trust in God. And I don't think you can read the Gospels and come away thinking you, he didn't live a rich life, but he did not have a spouse. He did not have children, he did not own a home. He did not. So part of trusting God is God actually defines richness in your life. What's happening here. And I'm not shaming whoever asked this question because we all do this. You are predetermining the definition of richness. Right. Richness is a spouse. It's a family. Which is funny just because, I mean, I have a spouse, she's wonderful, and I do consider her richness. And there are plenty of people in marriages who would say their barns are not full. I just want to caution you with that. So if you come to God and you say, you said my barns would be full and this is what I want them to be full of, you are now God calling him to obey you. Right. So God will determine the richness for you that is best for you. And just consider that the things you're longing for, which are good things. And it's not bad to want Jesus himself never had. And of course, ultimately the richness God has for us is himself number one, and then number two, himself in eternity and then, yes, things in this life. So sometimes we start from the bottom. Here's what I don't have. I know I have some things, but here's what I don't have. Whereas I think the actual, the biblical way is starting with what I do have and working my way down to what I don't have. And so I would just caution you, let God define richness. So instead, I might pray something like this, God, I don't have the richness I've been looking for. Yeah, but you said my barns would be full. Show me the richness I do have because I'm missing it. That's really good. And I think we've said this, but where that still is hard, you look to the resume of God most seen in Jesus. And so developing a Christ centered worldview that says even when I don't see it, I still am going to trust. So that's why I always say that when, you know, I talked to the sermon about Jesus praying in the garden, not what I want, but you want, and saying for the couple of days where he was dead, everyone thought, yeah, what an idiot for trusting God right until he rose from the dead. And what it sounds like, and this is often true in life, you're in a situation where you're in that 72 hour period where feels like it doesn't make sense to trust God. But the, but the testimony of Jesus is it will keep moving, keep moving. That's really good. Yeah. Okay. how about practically speaking, are there things that I can do or habits that I should build that will help me to trust God daily? Yeah, I mean, a couple of things. One is you have to know what he said. So you got to be in God's, word. You got to be in God's word because you can't trust him if you don't know what he said. So and I always caution people, sometimes what I'm reading today is for the moment of trust tomorrow, right? So I'm reading because I think sometimes we read and we, I don't know, you know, but Jesus says one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to help us remember what he has revealed to us in the scriptures. And I had someone once tell me, you can't remember what you haven't read. And so I'm filling my heart and head with the word of God so that in the moment I need it, it's there. So the first is read the scriptures, the second is, and we'll actually talk about this one week and Pastor Joe's preaching this one. I don't wanna steal his thunder, but surround yourself with people who know the word of God, who can remind you when you don't know or you don't wanna act like you know, right. That will say to you, no, no, no, who can help you figure out what's your voice and what's God's voice. Because if you're like me, my sinfulness goes deep enough that I can convince myself my voice is the voice of God and he wants what I want. And so you need people around you to say that doesn't sound like God. That sounds like you. So there are a lot of other things, but I would start with fill your head and mind with, your mind and heart with scripture. Surround yourself with people who want what God wants and who want what God wants for you, and trust them to help you navigate that. Yeah, I read a, book, I'm getting older, and now I'm starting to say decades or things like that ago, but it's called you are what you love by James K. Smith. And he talks about the distinction between being formed by what we think against being formed by our affections, which are shaped by our practices. And so, again, I think I shared a little bit about this earlier. I think do something that is a step of obedience. Just choose one area in your life where you'd say, this is something that I've read and I've looked at what God has said, and I'm going to do something different in my life this week. And you will be blown away, in the ways that God will show up through that obedience. Something you're only doing because of your faith in Jesus. If not for Jesus, I wouldn't do this, but because of Him, I will. And I think trust builds trust. So if you're listening to this or here tonight, what's. What's one thing that you feel like God has been nudging or drawing you to consider and do that this week? Yeah. The other thing that happens with that is you begin to develop. You know, I'm a big believer that in the Bible, God is building a resume for us so that we can trust Him. You know, the story of God splitting the Red Sea is our story. It's meant to say the same God. But you also build a resume in your life. So relatively, I'm going to use the word minor. Relatively minor acts of obedience that, that ultimately lead to the experience of God's faithfulness develop in you the muscle for major acts of obedience. Right. You just, you just probably don't go from zero to a thousand, but it's little acts of obedience and seeing, oh, wow, look at that. God really does come. He really does know what he's saying. He does. So that when the big moment comes, you have developed the. That trust. Yeah, it's good. Okay, I got two more things I want to cover tonight, and then we'll wrap up. But, okay, what is the most notable practical thing that you've learned from or done from the proverbs that has resulted in positive life change? Ooh, you want me to Go. I would say. I mean, there. There's. There's a lot. And I'm super excited about Proverbs, especially for the men of the church, because I think men sometimes can check out on the squishier parts of, you know, theology. So we, like, just tell me what to do. And I would say it's in the area of finances, thinking about, you got us so much to say. I mean, you know, I read once that the average American has 7% of their income disposable, meaning they get their paycheck and 93% of it is committed, because we live in such crippling debt. And God, for thousands of years, has been giving us a playbook of how to manage money. Well, and I know for my family, I've experienced so much freedom from that, and I'm excited to share that with people because God doesn't want you to not be able to sleep at night because you don't know how you're gonna pay your bills right now. Sometimes that's gonna come through him challenging why you spend the way you spend. But I think we have just taken financial anxiety as the cost of living in the modern world. And I think God is saying to us, you shouldn't live that way. He doesn't want us to live that way. And I've experienced that freedom. I'm excited for other people to experience that freedom in a big picture. That last line you said, God's desire for us to have more than we have. So the context of the entire book of Proverbs is set up like a father speaking to a son. And there's this language of the simple. And there's an invitation to grow in wisdom. And so the starting, like, God's understanding is that we are all starting simple. I think a lot of people, they're just like, I just don't know. I don't get this. And God's like, yeah, you don't. But I don't want you to stay there. And I have a plan for you to grow in that, if you would just listen to me. And this is really the heart of the sermon tonight, is it's, will you be. Somebody had once said to me, it's like, a lot of people think that the story of the Bible is fundamentally a story of good people and bad people, obedient people, disobedient people, but maybe more, it's a story of humble people and proud people, people who are willing to turn towards God, and people who are reliant on themselves. And so the passage from tonight is saying, are you willing to trust God's design? He knows that we are all starting like little simple children who just don't know. But he doesn't want us to stay there, and he's given us a path. Yeah. I'll say two things to add to that. One is that a simple way of building that minor muscle would be working through proverbs, because obviously we're only looking at nine of them, in the next nine weeks, and just taking them one at a time and not moving on until you're actually obeying the one you read. I mean, but I mean, just one. I think sometimes we think the deepest Bible readers read the most. Do you know what I mean? It's like, actually, you might grow the most if you just go, I'm doing this one, and I'm not going on to the next one until I'm doing this one. And some of them you'll get in a day, and some of them you'll take you a month. But either way, you'll be growing. the second thing, I'll say related, Jamie, to what you were just saying about people who trust and people who don't is just to say that you have to realize this is one of the reasons God lets us go through difficulty. You have to realize this because the biggest threat to my relationship with God is that I would trust myself. Right? And if everything works, then I will never stop trusting myself, and I will trust myself all the way to hell. Yeah. Do you understand what I mean? Because everything I touch turns to gold and everything. why would I ever not trust myself? So you have to. We are so hardwired to see hard times as a sign that we're forgotten and good times as a sign that we're blessed. Hard times can be blessing because they take. They make me realize. They make me come to the end of myself and go, I don't have an answer for this. Who does? And I just want to encourage you, especially because the question earlier about, you know, why don't I have these things? And it could be that God is getting your attention, and he's saying, like, are you. Are you ready to humble yourself? Are you ready, you know, to. To. To maybe lay down you as the definer of what the good life is and what the. And that can sometimes only come through difficulty. Yeah. There's the line in Romans 5 that will conclude we're talking about suffering leading to character. And it'll say that. That hope does not disappoint. And even I just Think God will never disappoint you if you're willing to trust him with your life. That's right. That's right. last thing, you ended kind of with two challenges, two things to say as we think about the rest of this series. So even for us listening in this room, for anybody else that's listening, just wanted you to take a minute to unpack that and then we'll wrap up. But you said we don't know what we are doing to ask ourselves these questions. We don't know what we are doing. And can we find the reason to give trust to God because he has won our trust in Jesus? And I don't. I mean, I know I just stated them again, but anything more that you can unpack to kind of challenge us with as we look forward to the. Yeah, I mean, I think that in some ways we would, we would all benefit from starting every day and saying the biggest threat to my my day is me. And there are going to be moments today where I am going to want to lead myself in the opposite direction of God. And. And those moments are the most crucial moments of my day. Those moments will define my day, which will define my week, which will define my month, which will define my life. So a simple prayer. God, make me hyper aware of those moments. Holy Spirit, come to my aid in those moments and remind me to trust Jesus, in those moments. And you're gonna win some, and you're gonna lose some. But in my experience, the ones you win will so outshine the ones you lose. The goodness of God will show so outshine your own brokenness that in the end you'll end up winning more than you lose just because you'll gravitate towards goodness. But I just think. And again, that's why I thought the analogy. I mean, you know, it's my sermon, so I guess I like all my analogies. But that's why I thought the one about being late for the meeting was so helpful because it's so easy to go, oh, the stupid stoplights. Or Hudson. If you've ever driven around Hudson, it's like our traffic is worse than when I've lived in D.C. or Cleveland or it's like, I don't know what we're doing. If you run for mayor in Hudson, solve the traffic, I'll vote for you. Okay, I hate the traffic. But in that moment, I'm looking for every reason to blame someone other than me. But I was the problem, right? And I think until we realize that, we will never grow yeah, no, that's so great. Thanks so much for joining tonight. Thanks so much for staying and being a part of this. And make sure you tune in next week. We'll see ya. Thanks so much for tuning in to beyond the Message. Before you head out, make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss next week's content. And all week long, we want to provide you opportunities to grow right where you are. So check out our YouTube channel, our app, for more opportunities to catch content from Christ Community Chapel. Thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you next time.