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Our flagship series will propel you to the forefront of the global ecommerce revolution. From analyses of breaking current events to the intricacies of navigating cross-border sales and regulations, Business over Borders entertains and informs any audience who wants to learn more about how international ecommerce works.
Welcome back to Business Over Borders. I'm your host, Leo Tucker. And today, we're talking to you, Shopify store owners. And I am elated to have one of my favorite guests here, Cayleigh Palen. Hello.
Leo Tucker:Alright, Cayleigh. So we wanna talk Shopify stores, but who are we talking to? Who is our audience today?
Cayleigh Palen:So we're talking about brands on Shopify that are really scaling and finding product market fit in international and global markets today that kind of want to take that to the next level and really optimize how they're using Shopify and how they're really targeting these international markets where they're seeing such success.
Leo Tucker:What does optimization even mean? It's a big word that can mean a lot of things or nothing if you use it incorrectly. So you ready to talk about that a bit?
Cayleigh Palen:Yeah. Such a loaded question. So many ways to optimize on Shopify. From kind of the retail side of Shopify, there's a million different ways you can optimize your store. But if you don't know who your audience is, everything's kind of a shot in the dark.
Cayleigh Palen:Right? If I win
Leo Tucker:Well, yeah. Optimization, you know, there has to be parameters. Like, you have to optimize for. You can't optimize for everything.
Cayleigh Palen:Well, you'd be shocked how many try to do that.
Leo Tucker:Right. Let's give you an example. You've got a, if you got a, a big offender that sticks out, not naming names
Cayleigh Palen:I guess if you really look at, cultural differences make up the biggest thing, right? As an example, like, I love Kulani Kinis, and I have quite a few of their bikinis. They're based in Australia. Okay, well, winter in The US, or summer in The US is not the same as summer in Australia. So if you're running a massive bathing suit sale, how do you target both markets at the same time?
Leo Tucker:Right. So you're not blasted in Canada in late December with, you know, bikini discounts.
Cayleigh Palen:Yeah, exactly. You know, Christmas in July is kind of the theme there. But that's kind of an example of optimization, right? I talked to so many merchants that are outside of The US, where The US's customer base is one of their biggest target markets, right? And I always joke like, are you gonna run a fourth of July sale on your Shopify store?
Cayleigh Palen:Because, know, you're ostracizing or excluding, you know, what could be 40% of your customer base. Like
Leo Tucker:Yeah. Just from not knowing the culture of the market you're selling into. What are the big holidays? You know? When is it summer?
Leo Tucker:When is it winter?
Cayleigh Palen:Another big one's language. Right?
Leo Tucker:Like, obviously a lot Beyond putting it in the right language, you mean?
Cayleigh Palen:To do Yeah. Shopify does have a feature that I think does the translation for you, but I think it has its kinks. Right. It's different slangs.
Leo Tucker:It's a little English.
Cayleigh Palen:Yeah. Yeah. So that's a big that's a big one for optimization. Right? Especially if you're, like, selling into Europe because how many languages Europe has.
Cayleigh Palen:Right? You have French, Italian. So Yep. Club L is a big example of that, right? They, yes, have a big Shopify presence in Europe, but they have individual Shopify instances based on language.
Cayleigh Palen:Have a French store, they have a German store.
Leo Tucker:Yeah, they got stores for, yeah, different languages. So that way you're not relying on the built in. We hope this is right, close enough kind of thing, you know, because there are regional differences too, especially, you know, in in LatAm or versus that Spain, like it might be Spanish, but, you know, what sort of tone are you using and what, you know, how does it come across?
Cayleigh Palen:Yeah. So all that's like your front end shop, like sizing. Sizing is huge.
Leo Tucker:Sizing. Okay. Tell me about sizing.
Cayleigh Palen:Because they're different. Right? And as a girl or a woman, sorry, as a woman
Leo Tucker:Oh, clothing sizing. I see. Yeah.
Cayleigh Palen:Clothing sizing. Shoe sizing, all of it, right? It can be different. UK has different sizes than EU. God knows they all have different sizes than The US.
Cayleigh Palen:And when I'm on a store, and I see in that, I'm like, size chart, where are we at? I'm like, googling what is this in this, right?
Leo Tucker:Oh, yeah, I buy a size forty five shoe in Europe, and I'm from North America. I'm like, oh, here's hoping.
Cayleigh Palen:And sizing is different, right? They it could be a UK store that says it's a size eight in The US, but it's probably really like a size four.
Leo Tucker:Yeah, it's tough enough if you've got the correct unit of measurement for sizing in there.
Cayleigh Palen:So, yeah, I mean, we could go on a tangent all day about ways you can optimize, especially from an international standpoint. Cultures are just so different.
Leo Tucker:Sure.
Cayleigh Palen:And when I talk to merchants, you know, I try to let them know, like, hey, that makes a difference. Like, as maybe one of your target audiences, I will tell you when I go to checkout, just putting the sizing in The US sizes for US customers, that makes a difference, and everything is all about conversion, right? How frictionless can you make it for a customer to get to checkout and to convert? Again, that's the end goal. So your optimization always has to be targeted to that, whether it's a sale that is relevant to your customer's geographical or cultural location, whether it's a size, whether it's a checkout experience, right?
Cayleigh Palen:A lot of merchants, we we deal with a lot of tax. Optimizing the checkout experience is probably the most important, because that's you've already got them there, right? You've done the language
Leo Tucker:Final mile. Yeah.
Cayleigh Palen:Yeah. It's the easiest part, just pay. Easiest part of
Leo Tucker:Give me your money.
Cayleigh Palen:Yeah, they've already made the decision to buy it. So that's where optimizing the checkout becomes so important, and there's a few aspects to that, right? Tax, how customers charge tax, and we'll dig into that a little bit. Shipping is huge. There's so many customers, myself included, if I've committed to buying something, and suddenly shipping is like $20 I'm out.
Cayleigh Palen:It's like a dagger. It's like, no. But at the same time, if you give me an incentive to get free shipping, like, oh, shipping is $10 but if you spend 30 more dollars
Leo Tucker:Right. Shipping just goes away.
Cayleigh Palen:I'll girl math that, right? Well, okay, now it's free. We're good. Those are probably the three biggest ones to optimize checkout. So obviously the most complicated one is tax, right?
Cayleigh Palen:Because we all hate paying taxes.
Leo Tucker:Yeah, we hate it, but it's, you know, it's a thing we're all doing one way or the other, but it's wild how different countries and different, you know, parts of the world handle tax differently. Exactly. Like, how they actually show the tax is different.
Cayleigh Palen:Exactly. And I'm on so many calls with brands that are out based outside of The US, but have a large portion of their target market in The US, and so we're helping them optimize their US store, Shopify store, and I'm sitting there pleading with them, convincing that it is totally expected and acceptable and will not hurt your conversion to charge sales tax as a separate line item in The US.
Leo Tucker:And everyone thinks it's so strange to add tax, $9.99 plus tax. Why not put in the price?
Cayleigh Palen:Yes. And I literally sit there and I tell them, I'm like, listen, when I go to buy something, I have the full expectation taxes at the end, whether I'm going down the street to the corner store, I'm purchasing something online. Yeah. If I get to check out and I am not charged tax, I almost feel like I'm, like, getting away with something. I know.
Leo Tucker:It almost feels wrong.
Cayleigh Palen:It does. Like, oh, okay.
Leo Tucker:And that's and that's fine. You know, you can kinda you can kinda like it's it's the way we do it here, but if you flip that around, then that's it. Nobody's buying anything. If you do $9.99 plus tax in Germany, like that's
Cayleigh Palen:No. Yeah, if a UK customer got to check out and they put £145 dress in their cart, and then when they got to checkout, showed 20% VAT as a separate line item, they would freak I would freak out, you know, just knowing The UK culture very well. It's not normal, and it would kill conversions. I have to have that same conversation with brands that are based in The US that, you know, they don't wanna eat the the cost of tax in these regions, so I have to, you know, help consult, like, well, maybe in that region you need to increase your product price because it includes the VAT. It's a delicate conversation, but it's, again, to the point of you've got to get the final mile.
Cayleigh Palen:You have to optimize your checkout for that final mile, and that can be such a killer based on how you're presenting it because it also, as a brand, can hurt you if you're now eating that US tax because you're not showing it at checkout, and you're cutting into your margins when you really don't have to. So, yeah, that's a big, big checkout optimization. And Shopify is great because they actually, in the admin, have a checkbox, right? Include it in pricing. Include it in product pricing.
Leo Tucker:Separate line item, absolutely, it's totally
Cayleigh Palen:They make it very easy, and you know, that's comforting to a lot of brands that I talk to. I'm like, Listen, make it exclusive in The US, but if you feel like your conversions tank because it is now exclusive, you just check that box. Shopify makes it so easy and flip it back. I've never had a brand come back to me and be like, it absolutely tanked my conversion.
Leo Tucker:No. I mean, we're so used to seeing it. It's a joke at this point. $9.99 plus tax. This is the way it is.
Leo Tucker:All right. So we've talked a little bit about shipping strategies, tax. Always more to say about tax. Wish we could say less, but we can't. Mentioned payment methods per country
Leo Tucker:Do you want to jump into that?
Cayleigh Palen:Every Customer has a preferred payment method, right? I love my Delta American Express. When someone doesn't accept American Express, like, ah, but I love it because I get benefits from it.
Leo Tucker:Get the points.
Cayleigh Palen:Yes. I feel like that's probably, you know, AMEX might be bigger in The US from a branded perspective. Sure.
Leo Tucker:It is American Express after all.
Cayleigh Palen:But like in Germany, right? Klarna is huge. I would say Klarna is not as big in The US as a buy now pay later. Buy now pay later's are very for some reason, like, culturally divided. It's very odd.
Cayleigh Palen:Shopify has their own, right? Shop Pay installments. Yep. But it's only available to US based merchants.
Leo Tucker:Yeah, same with PayPal.
Cayleigh Palen:But when you look at, like, PayPal usage amongst US customers compared to Germany, right, it's a significant difference. Germany uses PayPal, you know, we see that at checkout being one of the most popular, if not the most popular payment method, even above cards. So the cultural difference is crazy. Buy now pay leaders are really crazy because they just really do have such a cultural divide, which kind of sucks, right? US customers like Shop Pay installments because we like Shop Pay.
Cayleigh Palen:It's very built into our shopping experience
Leo Tucker:Yeah, it's built into the ecosystem.
Cayleigh Palen:So if you're a brand based in The UK, but the majority of your target audience is in The US, you want to offer a US centric payment method, like Shop Pay Installments, but you don't have access to it because you're a UK based business, and Shopify only makes it available to US based customers. Now, there are ways around that. There are merchant record providers such as Reach that can help give brands access to payment methods where their target audience is without them having to jump through all the hoops, so there are solutions out there, but it's important. Also have brands all time come to me, they're like, Wanna offer Klarna in The US, and I'm like, you can do that. I don't know if you'll see a huge conversion on that.
Cayleigh Palen:Now if they were like, hey, our target market's Germany, I'd be like, Klarna, offer Klarna all day. US, take it or leave it, right?
Leo Tucker:Yeah, you'll get some fraction of folk using it, but
Cayleigh Palen:There's just a more popular option when it comes to buy now pay later in The US. You also have some countries that are, like, more Visa centric as opposed to Mastercard centric, and then you have Discover's a great one example. Right? Like, that's, like, US only, I feel like.
Leo Tucker:Yeah. Does anybody outside The US use Discover?
Cayleigh Palen:It's JCB and Diners in the outside of The US, so it's very different. But Discover is a very US focused card brand. I would deter anyone wanting to sell into The US or The UK or even Australia from writing off Shop Pay as a payment method, right? I mean, we have some brands that Reach works with where Shop Pay takes up 50% plus of their checkout. I know if Shop Pay is an offer at checkout, I don't wanna dig in my car to find my card and put in my card number.
Cayleigh Palen:Shop Pay makes it very easy. They also make it very easy to not second guess, right? The faster I can get through checkout
Leo Tucker:Right, just take my money.
Cayleigh Palen:Yes, without taking the five minute walk to go get my card and type it in to really be like, do I really need this? Shop Pay is like, yes. You really need this. Here you go.
Leo Tucker:I I can't even count how many times I have not bought something just because I had to type in my credit card. Right. Alright. So there's a lot going on here. If a brand wants to learn more about sort of regional specific things, I mean, obviously, you've got cultural things like the localization, sizing, the holidays, language, etcetera.
Leo Tucker:But if they wanna learn more about the details, the payment methods, the tax, the the shipping strategies, like what's a good way to level up on that for, say, a small, medium sized business that's either growing into a new market or establishing a foothold in a new market?
Cayleigh Palen:Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of options out there. There are, you know, a lot of ways to go about it. We mentioned in the beginning, you know, there's lot of agencies that focus exclusively on optimizing your Shopify because, you know, where it starts, the language and the stuff like that, right, that's a big decision on how you wanna optimize your Shopify setup because Shopify has a lot of great options, right? They have local expansion stores that brands can run, so they really, really get that targeted optimized experience.
Leo Tucker:Yeah.
Cayleigh Palen:And that's kind of where that comes into, right? We mentioned Club L has quite a few stores. Kulani Kinis does have quite a few Shopify instances as well that, you know, Shopify Plus has the capability of doing, and it's a great, great, great feature, and it really takes a brand to its next level when going globally. So that's kind of the first layer of optimization. The second one is really getting into the nitty gritty of payment methods, tax, shipping strategies, payment processing strategies, things like that, and that's where players like, obviously, Reach come in and really take that merchant from, yes, we've got the customer here.
Cayleigh Palen:Let's get them across the line. Let's give them what they want from, you know, the checkout experience, and that's where, again, players like Reach come in and we partner with our brands to really give them the tools and the knowledge and, you know, the ease of being able to do that without them going and setting up, you know, a fully operational US entity and a fully operational UK entity and a fully operational Australia entity, and having, you know, to figure out all the nuances of people there.
Leo Tucker:Which is a bummer.
Cayleigh Palen:And it's expensive. It's like, hey, we could do this all ourselves. We can build this mountain from the bottom up or we can just buy a mountain. Yeah.
Leo Tucker:I mean, it was sort of the top of the episode we talked about optimization, and that's the idea. You can brute force your way as a brand into a new market, capture, you know, as wide an audience as you can, get everybody to see your store. But if it doesn't make sense, if the language is just a little off, so it reads funny and sounds like a, you know, an AI wrote it and, you know, you're not having sales when people expect sales and would normally come to your website, you're offering funky payment methods. You know, you might be getting attention of a really large group of people, but if your conversion rates, the time when someone clicks check out, buy, you know, if that's only, you know, 60% or something like that, then all that hard work you went through is, you know, half of them are falling through the cracks.
Cayleigh Palen:That's the magic, right? That's the finish line. If you can't optimize it at the end of the day, and Shopify has so many cool features and things that you can do to make these optimizations with the help of local experts like me and Reach . That's probably the best feedback I get. Like I said, I put my customer hat on, my shopping girl hat on, all the time when I talk to brands, because they really wanna know what gets you across that finish line, right?
Leo Tucker:I think part of it's just because you really like shopping, but that's good.
Cayleigh Palen:I love shopping. But, you know, the feedback I get is that every brand that I've worked with excels, right? It really does make a difference. Or we have a lot of case studies on our website about conversion rates. Know, aussieBum is on there.
Cayleigh Palen:ShowPo is on there. Really taking that next level upwards of like 30% increase in conversion by just making some simple tweaks to that optimized checkout to local audiences. It's crazy. It really is. Like, just the differences you see.
Cayleigh Palen:What's the catch? I get asked that quite a bit. Right?
Leo Tucker:Yeah. What's the catch?
Cayleigh Palen:What what do you mean we can do this and, like, we don't have to go hire employees over there, or incorporate an LLC, or pay corporate income tax in certain regions because we had to go rent an office or something like that? There's just so many nuances, and we you know, Reach does make it easy to be local and really optimize your Shopify store and optimize your Shopify checkout for the audience you've identified as being your target market.
Leo Tucker:We covered a whole lot of in the general topic of Shopify optimizations. I mean, you've got you know, the simplest one to grab is use something like Shop Pay. It's built in. They're giving it to you. You know, it could save everyone's credit card, everyone who joins the store.
Leo Tucker:It's reusable. It's great. You've got localization options. Make sure you're sizing appropriately where you're selling. Make sure the language on the site is not just, you know, thrown into a Google Translate, but make sure it's, you know, appropriate for where you're selling.
Leo Tucker:Be aware of seasonal sales and holidays and stuff so you're taking, you know, the most advantage of what's going on, where you're selling. At the checkout, you know, are you doing tax inclusive? Are you doing tax exclusive? $9.09 9 plus tax doesn't fly everywhere. Shipping.
Leo Tucker:You know? Are people gonna get scared if you say $20 shipping as opposed to baking into the price? Something to consider. And make sure you're using the right payment methods for the region you're selling into. You know, if payment method a is not used in location a, probably don't need it on your checkout.
Leo Tucker:And lastly is expansion stores kind of allow you to modify all those and dial it in just right to make sure your customers are seeing what they expect to see. And it's a nice, comfortable experience. They can click that Pay button, and everyone's happy. What did I miss?
Cayleigh Palen:Yeah. I think it, right? I think at the end of the day, if you combine Shopify's amazing features and capabilities with partners and local experts like Reach, you can really get the best, most optimized experience for your customers ever, and scale is sky's limit, you know?
Leo Tucker:Absolutely. Cayleigh, I love having you on. When are coming back next?
Cayleigh Palen:I know. Whenever you invite me.
Leo Tucker:Is it all me now? All right, cool. Until then, thanks for watching Business Over Borders. If you're a business with a Shopify store selling into any markets, check out our case studies. Check out Cayleigh's LinkedIn.
Leo Tucker:Send us a message. Look at our website, withreach.com. We've got lots of good information for you. If you like this episode, go ahead and give us a like. Go ahead and subscribe to the channel.
Leo Tucker:And click that little bell if you wanna see more of what we got coming when it comes out. There'll be additional info down in the description. Talk to you later.
Voice Over:Brought to you by the Reach Network. Visit withreach.com/network for more.