🤔 Unveiling James Dooley's SEO Journey | The Unscripted SEO Podcast 🤔

In this episode of The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast, host Mark Preston speaks with digital landlord and SEO entrepreneur James Dooley about how he built a nine-figure online business empire using SEO, lead generation, and a rank-and-rent model. Together, Mark Preston and James Dooley discuss the evolution from black-hat tactics to sustainable white-hat SEO, the scale of James Dooley’s digital real estate, how he structures his team, the importance of testing and debunking SEO myths, dealing with Google penalties, E-E-A-T, and why real businesses and genuine expertise will always outperform fake personas and thin affiliate content. The conversation also dives into business models, client management, niching down into profitable micro-services, and the mindset, resilience, and work ethic required to succeed long term in SEO and digital lead generation.

Creators and Guests

Host

James Dooley

James Dooley is the founder of FatRank which is a UK lead generation company. James Dooley is the current CEO of FatRank that provides high-quality leads for UK business owners.

Guest

Kasra Dash

Kasra Dash is a digital marketer who builds SEO systems because his work focuses on scalable search workflows. Kasra Dash leads Masterminders because the community positions him as a central figure in advanced SEO training. Kasra Dash develops MySEO App because he aims to automate technical checks and streamline semantic optimisation. Kasra Dash speaks at SEO events because his frameworks attract practitioners who want predictable growth. Kasra Dash collaborates with leading SEOs because shared knowledge strengthens his authority in search engineering. Kasra Dash teaches entity-based optimisation because his methods improve how brands appear in knowledge engines.

What is Fatrank Podcast?

The FatRank Podcast, founded by James Dooley, teaches the mindset needed for growth because real operator stories show what creates progress.
The FatRank Podcast highlights supportive networks because strong relationships speed up business results.
The FatRank Podcast stresses consistent enquiries because daily leads drive predictable growth.
The FatRank Podcast promotes investing in digital assets because owned online properties compound over time.

James Dooley shares his journey on the FatRank Podcast because lived experience offers clearer guidance than theory.
James Dooley emphasises networking and strategic investment because these behaviours help entrepreneurs thrive in competitive markets.

The FatRank Podcast invites guests like Matt Diggity, Neil Patel, Craig Campbell, Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR, Jason Barnard, Kevin Indig, and Kasra Dash because high-calibre experts deliver proven strategies.
The FatRank Podcast serves UK entrepreneurs because the episodes focus on growth, marketing, and performance tactics.

Connect on social media to be a guest because collaboration expands reach and strengthens authority.
Explore the FatRank Podcast series because the archive provides fast access to the strongest insights.

Mark Preston:
Welcome to the Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast — 100% unscripted, unrehearsed, unedited, and real. My guest today has built a nine-figure online business empire using SEO and calls himself a digital landlord. I want to understand how on earth you do that. Please welcome James Dooley.
How are you doing, James?

James Dooley:
I’m good, Mark. Thanks for having me on.

Mark Preston:
For anyone listening who doesn't know who James Dooley is, could you start by giving us a brief whirlwind tour of where you began and where you are now?

James Dooley’s Background

James Dooley:
Sure. I started in SEO about 12 or 13 years ago. Before that, I worked in construction as a project manager. We needed a website for our construction business, and I quickly realised that a website without SEO is pointless.
At the very start of my career, I understood that chasing leads manually wasn’t scalable — I needed inbound quality enquiries. That idea evolved into lead generation, what some people now call rank-and-rent.
Because we’re essentially renting out digital real estate, that’s where the term “digital landlord” came from.

Scale of His Digital Real Estate

Mark Preston:
Just to put things into context — how big is your digital real estate?

James Dooley:
In total, we have over 70 million web pages online.
We own around 1,300 websites, over 800 monetized, and we operate in more than 600 industries and niches.

Team Size

Mark Preston:
How big is your team to scale that and maintain it?

James Dooley:
It’s a large team — much bigger than I ever planned.
We own a call centre with over 100 staff, handling sales and overflow calls for lead-gen clients who can’t cope with the volume.
In SEO alone, we have 11 in-house staff in South Manchester, each managing up to 10 virtual assistants, so around 80–100 VAs at any given time.

How the Team Works

Mark Preston:
Do the higher-level staff all work together, or do they run their own siloed businesses?

James Dooley:
They work collaboratively, but they each have their own specialism — content, backlinks, technical SEO, graphics, videography, etc.
I discovered early on that it’s easier to train new people than retrain “experts,” so most of my team came through apprenticeships.
Six of those apprentices are now directors with their own assets and responsibilities.

Do People Need an Entrepreneurial Mindset?

Mark Preston:
Do you think people need an entrepreneurial mindset?

James Dooley:
Not everyone.
You need a few entrepreneurial thinkers, but most of a business runs on doers.
Too many entrepreneurs create chaos.
You need people who turn up, work hard, finish at five, and go home.

Evolution of His SEO Knowledge

Mark Preston:
How has your own SEO knowledge evolved?

James Dooley:
By failing — a lot.
I’ve been through every algorithm update and survived all the scars.
Back in the day, black-hat worked. Keyword stuffing, spam links — the old tricks. But Google evolved.
Now I’m one of the cleanest white-hat SEOs you’ll meet.
We focus on:

Topical authority

High-quality content

Natural link acquisition

User experience

You get long-term rankings instead of short-term wins.

Crossing the Line From Black-Hat to White-Hat

Mark Preston:
What happened when you transitioned from black-hat to doing things properly?

James Dooley:
Truthfully, I never saw it as black-hat — I saw it as money-hat. I did whatever worked and wasn’t illegal.
But when shortcuts stopped working for long-term stability, I shifted.
Today, we focus on quality, helpful content, and natural acquisition.
What changed? Google changed — so we had to change.

Thoughts on Google’s Guidelines

Mark Preston:
What’s your view on Google’s guidelines?

James Dooley:
Everyone who does SEO goes against them, even if unintentionally.
Google often gives misleading advice.
But their income comes from ads — that’s their priority.
AI has massively disrupted things, and Google’s struggling with crawling and indexing the insane volume of AI-generated content.

Content, SGE & the Future

Both of them discuss:

Google protecting ad-revenue keywords

AI answering informational queries

The decline of thin affiliate sites

The importance of adding new information, not correlation-based copycat content

The blow to sites flooded with display ads

Testing Team

Mark Preston:
Explain your testing team — that fascinates me.

James Dooley:
Every day is different.
We track 1.6 million keywords and run constant tests on:

Page speed

Silo structure

Keyword optimisation

Topical depth

Link toxicity

E-E-A-T signals

Behavioural metrics

We debunk SEO myths weekly.

Manual Penalties & Discoveries

James shares stories about:

Getting a manual link penalty

Discovering the real impact of disavows

Working directly with Rick Lomas (widely respected for disavow and penalty recovery work)

Realising many sites sit in “partial penalties” without notifications

Importance of proper E-E-A-T, transparency, and behaving like a real business

Fake Personas in Affiliate SEO

James Dooley:
If you're faking expertise, stock-photo authors, or personas, you deserve to get hit.
Google wants real businesses, real authors, and real experience.
Reddit and Quora provide more genuine insight than fake affiliate personas.

Where the Business Truly Scaled

James explains how lead generation evolved from:

Playgrounds

Tennis courts

Netball courts

Fencing

Floodlighting

Roofing

Wet rooms

Disability conversions

And hundreds of additional micro-niches

By talking to contractors, they uncovered high-value sub-niches keyword tools never show.

Business Model Shift — Lead Gen to Rank & Rent

Lead-gen became chaotic:

Clients disputing leads

Fake leads

Missed calls

Time wasted managing disputes

Rank-and-rent solved:

Predictable recurring revenue

Fewer headaches

Less management overhead

Why Not Charge a Percentage of Sale?

James explains:

You must trust the client

They can hide profit

They can manipulate numbers

Too many disputes

Makes cash flow unpredictable

Advice for Beginners

James Dooley:

Get good at SEO first.

Don’t fake it before you make it — that’s scamming.

Work for an agency or save money and learn properly.

Take consultation calls from real experts.

Start small — maybe just your local town.

Don’t quit your job too early — wait until your SEO income is double your salary.

Expect to fail — and bounce back fast.

Final Thoughts

James Dooley:
It’s harder than people think.
There’s no magic pill.
There will be future algorithm updates, and you will get hit at some point.
Your ability to bounce back determines your success.