Was I wrong about MIKE MENTZER?

**Episode Summary:** 
In this episode of The Fire Within Podcast, hosts Brandon and Joe dive into the world of high-intensity training as pioneered by Mike Mentzer. They discuss their personal experiences with Mentzer's unique training approach, focusing on the intensity and frequency of workouts. The episode covers a range of topics, from the science behind Mentzer's methods to practical tips on implementing this style of training.

**Key Points Discussed:**

1. **Introduction to Mike Mentzer's Training Philosophy:**
   - Exploration of Mentzer's high-intensity training principles, including limited frequency and maximum intensity.
   - Discussion of the hosts' recent experiences with Mentzer's two-day split workout regime.

2. **Deep Dive into Mentzer's Workout Techniques:**
   - Detailed analysis of specific exercises, such as leg extensions and leg presses, following Mentzer's approach.
   - Emphasis on the importance of tempo, with a focus on the 4-2-4 cadence for each repetition.

3. **Personal Reflections and Results:**
   - Brandon and Joe share their personal transformations and results after following Mentzer's workout regime.
   - Insights into how the training impacted their physical appearance, particularly in muscle growth and definition.

4. **Challenges and Adaptations:**
   - Discussion about adapting to the low-frequency, high-intensity workout regime.
   - Mention of the mental challenges involved in switching from traditional training methods to Mentzer's approach.

5. **Nutritional Adjustments and Cravings:**
   - Conversation about changes in diet and increased appetite due to the intense nature of the workouts.
   - Personal anecdotes about cravings and dietary adjustments to support muscle growth.

6. **Closing Thoughts:**
   - Reflection on the potential long-term implementation of Mentzer's workout method.
   - Consideration of the approach's suitability for different types of fitness enthusiasts.

**Conclusion:** 
The episode concludes with the hosts acknowledging the unconventional nature of Mike Mentzer's high-intensity training method while highlighting its effectiveness in muscle building. They plan to continue exploring and reporting on this training approach in future episodes.

Creators & Guests

Host

Brandon Woolley

Founder of Fire Within Nutrition and Fitness, The Triangle’s effective personal trainer, Brandon Woolley will help you with sustainable & science-based methods for lasting change.

Producer

Joe Woolworth

Owner of Podcast Cary, your friendly neighborhood studio.

What is Fire Within Nutrition and Fitness?

If you want to transform your life with nutrition and fitness, there are no shortcuts. You need a sustainable plan: the right mindset, and the knowledge and inspiration to stoke the fire within. Just like the Phoenix, you can burn your old habits, never turn back, and emerge anew.

[00:00:00]

Welcome Fire Within Community. This is the Fire Within Podcast, where we talk about all things health, fitness, and nutrition related. I'm your host, Brandon, with my co host Joe.

Hello. How you doing, Brant? Great. We just got done working out. We came right over from the gym.

We're here. We're sipping coffee. It's morning ish time. And everything hurts and I'm dying. Everything hurts. So we just did an episode not too long ago about Mike Mancer, and candidly, like, I don't think either of us knew much about him other than just the general things people know about Mike

Mancer.

Yeah, and I listened to his audio recordings.

So you knew more than me. And so we did the, we did the show on him and I found it interesting. And then Saturday a week ago or two weeks ago. I was like, I'm going to, I was bored. So I just went down the YouTube rabbit trail and I watched like maybe four [00:01:00] hours of Mike Menzer videos.

Now this is

after we'd done about three to four weeks of a two day split that he'd put out. And then you find these videos are even more intense. Which is

kind of like, they're more intense. Yes, completely agree. The workouts are terrible and we'll get into that a little bit more. But it seemed like from what I saw in the videos, this is where Mike Menzer wanted people to start.

Yeah. Like these are, so it's four workouts, four days in between, four times.

Yeah. Which to me is mind boggling because now I really like the gym. I love the gym. Right. I don't like to not work out a day. So this only workout once every four days thing is not sitting well with me. But

but it is, it is like a, and that's, it matches up with what he said.

The science behind what he's saying. Like you even said it makes sense. Yeah. Cause you're just a long fricking time. Yeah.

You're tearing down muscle in the gym. Now if you remember, if you haven't caught the other episode, let's just catch you up on a couple of mentor principles. Yeah. You want to train as few reps as possible as intensely

as [00:02:00] possible.

Yeah. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I did, I was going to say like, it helps to get a visual Mike mentors, like in the Arnold Schwarzenegger gold gym, 1980s. Like ripped, like crazy big dude. And so like, you need to know that so you know that he doesn't sound like he's not building any muscle and he doesn't know

what he's talking about.

He absolutely knows what he's talking about. And the caveat to the, any of these McMensure episodes, I don't think this is the best place for a beginner to start. Sure. I was extremely skeptical going into it. My biggest concern being injury risk

cause of the intensity. And we did some stuff wrong, which we'll get into that might've.

Increased our likelihood of hurting ourselves because we didn't really know we're just like, okay Well

for for instance where the one of the machines recommended is like extension and we did that today We do that today and I've I've never put a client on a leg extension unless it was very lightweight for Rehab purposes because there is a high propensity of aggravating the tell attendant Cause of the amount of force.

And part of it is setting it up, right. And my first set, I [00:03:00] was feeling quite a bit of knee pain. So, we'd adjusted the seat some and got more of the hamstring off of the bench. So it moved the fulcrum a little bit. And that took a little bit of it off. I'm still a little skeptical about the safety of it, but but damn, it gets you, it gets your quad, man.

It

was the first time I ever finished a set where I jelly legged after. Where it's like I tried to get up and it felt like my muscles were atrophied.

Yep, my exact quote was, It's a good thing I'm holding the squat machine up.

It was rough. It was a super set, so we had to get right over into the next exercise right after that.

Now our previous Mike Mencer split we were doing was a two day split, an A day and a B day. And it was like six or seven exercises. I think the pull day was actually nine exercises. And it was two sets. This is one set. One set per muscle group. Which is nuts. Because you feel like

you should keep working

out.

No, I didn't. I was, I was done. Joe.

No, I mean, I guess I know what you mean. Like, so in terms of this is what I was trying to get at. I feel like I felt like I didn't do [00:04:00] enough. Like there wasn't enough volume. Like I felt like I was cheating myself. They're doing the lazy workout. Now I don't mean that I didn't feel it.

I feel like I did a full workout. Oh yeah.

No, my, my legs are done. They're toast.

But it's tough to stop mentally, I guess is what I'm saying. Yeah. When you're used to a significant more volume. So like, so today's workout, for example, it was a super set of eight to 15 reps of leg extensions and then leg presses.

One set.

One set. One set, but Mike

Minster style, Mike Minster style, which we didn't know. And I told Brandon, this was weird. And I watched a bunch of videos. And then I also went to Barnes and Noble and found his book. Right. And so there was a paragraph in the book that it just doesn't get mentioned a lot of places, which I thought was weird, but it was like, the tempo is four to four, so like in the, in, so it's.

Four

counts on the concentric, the hard, you know, lifting portion. Right. And

then hold or press or squeeze or two,

two Mississippi, Mississippi, mind you. Yeah, in full contraction. [00:05:00] And then four Mississippi on the way down.

Right. So now you might be starting to realize, oh, that would hurt .

Yeah, that's a ten second rep.

One rep. Which means if you do six reps, it takes an entire minute. If you're doing 12 to 20 reps, it feels like a lot to two minutes, two minutes, a solid under

tension. So if you're a big time under tension person, you might just be like, Oh, okay. That's different rather than just busting out one regular tempo, quick set.

You're trying to get it done because typically

it's more like two, one, three. Is what most people start with and what a general approach is. And most people in the gym cheat that, so it's more like 1 1 1. Right.

So that's tempo, that's super important. The other thing that we, we didn't do the first time, we did it, but we found out the second time Was we should be waiting 15 seconds and trying to squeeze out four more right

now.

This is, we were doing the two day split, the old stuff that we completed four weeks of. And

so in addition to that, to finish the set, then if you have somebody you're working out with, you get a cheat rep and then you, you just do the [00:06:00] downward side of the. Yeah. The exercise.

The eccentric, the negative

rep.

And you're still looking for that 4 2 4 or in the eccentric, decentric, sorry. You still want four counts of eccentric. You still want four counts. Yeah. So if we're curling, for example, like Brandon will help get the bar up and then I try to get four down. And then. Yeah. Then when you can't possibly do it, like when the bar just goes in one second and you got nothing left, you've done a set.

Now

you've done a Mike Mencer set. Right.

So it's not, it's not like, and that's what, there's a lot to understand about it. So I get why people are so confused about one set, eight to 15.

Okay. Right. But it's probably three times the amount of time under tension is doing, you know, three or four sets and

eight to 12 range.

And, you know, if you watch his videos, he's big on no junk sets. So no junk reps, no junk sets, no like, so like when you're doing like a 12 to 15, a lot of us, right. The first five or six, we probably aren't really feeling much, especially if we're doing like a regular, like one up, hold one down, hold, like just kind of busting it out.

And he's like, what a waste of time. Don't do that. And then the other thing that we weren't doing is we weren't [00:07:00] warming up.

Yep. So there should be one to two warm up sets, if not three or four to get you close to your, your max weight for the working

set. And I think if you put all those together, it's kind of like, Oh, I get it.

One set does make sense.

So one working set. One working set. Yeah. But you're not warming up for every exercise. Sure. Just whatever the compound movement is. So in

the case of a Mike Mentzer workout, it's the second one in any super set. Is what you warm up with, right? So we

only did three total exercises today, right?

We did leg extension. We did the leg press and we did standing calf raises. That was it. So we did a couple of warmup sets to lock in the weight on the leg press. Then we started our working set on leg extension. So it was 8, it was 8 to 15 rep range 4 to 4, rest 15 seconds, crank out 4 to 6 more, and then do your assisted eccentrics.

And then you immediately go to the leg press, repeat the process.

And then you rest the appropriate amount of time.

To make funny sounds and

jello leg. And then it was on to [00:08:00] standing

calf raises. Yep. And that's not a compound movement. There's no warmup for that. They're, they're already pretty fired up from the squats or excuse me, the leg press.

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. And you just do one

set. And again, 4 2 4, which is a lot different than the way I normally do calf raises, which is like as fast as possible trying to feel the burn.

Yeah. So, I mean, total working time, probably 15 to 20 minutes with 5 to 7 minutes of crying like a bitch. Which

there was a lot of that.

The machines that we did were like, Two machines apart from each other. And it was funny because Brandon's going, and I'm on the other side. It's not a pretty workout. No, it's not. Cause it's not easy to finish them. Especially when you're trying to get towards the last two or three, like you, you fight it.

Like I wasn't, I wasn't four on the way up, like it took longer than four to get to where I needed to get. Yeah. Now,

now I want to go back and talk about the first split we did. I was shocked. and amazed and baffled at the change I saw [00:09:00] in my physique in four weeks. Insane. I've been doing this shit a long time, Joe.

Yeah, it's crazy. And nothing has gotten me that quick of a return.

Especially, I noticed it in the chest area. Like, I feel like I do chest a lot, or the regular amount, I suppose, a lot. It's probably the wrong qualifier. But my chest doesn't change much. But we did like two or three of these Mike Mentzer style things and it's like, oh wow, I got chesticles I really feel like it's making a difference.

Yeah, so of course, it's not a huge difference, right? It's a couple workouts, but yeah, but

as far as time spent to what I get In return it's wild. I, I struggle mentally with the concept because I am somebody that truly loves, enjoys, needs the gym for stress relief. So what I've been doing is I've been hammering the fuck out of my core on the days in between, which has been really fun.

And what I found out is I've been cheating my core. by doing, you know, being pre fatigued from all [00:10:00] these other workouts. By the time I got to core, I was only probably putting in 60 percent of the effort I'm doing when I just focus on it by myself. So I've been, and I've been applying Mike Menster techniques to the core, like hanging leg raises four to four.

Oh my God. We

did, we did incline. Setups. Yeah. Today. Pretty

nuts. You added weight. I did not. Yep. That's a good time. So, now I treat and have always treated the core a little bit different than the other muscle groups. They're more endurance based muscles. They don't grow super lot like your rectus abdominis muscles in the front, maybe a quarter inch.

They're not going to hypertrophy like your quads, your biceps and your chest are going to do. So I'm wondering. If the principles apply the same or not the same, and I just enjoy doing them. If you're doing the regular workouts and skipping core, and you've got deadlifts and squats included, you're going to have a ripped core.

So it's not necessary to do ab exercises if you're doing enough weight and proper form on those other things to develop your core. But for me, it's just fun. I enjoy it. Cause I'm weird.[00:11:00]

Fun's not the word I would use for core. Yeah. Everybody's

a little bit different. So anyway, that's the

one thing I would have more fun if I had core muscles, I feel like.

There you go.

Well, I think, I think you got some, otherwise you just kind of flop over, but yeah, maybe more visible. So anyway, that's the one thing I'm deviating from.

But, and I did see one video and then, you know, just. Again, we have a disclaimer, maybe we'll play it, this isn't medical advice, and I think we talked about this on the first Mike Mencer thing, this probably isn't a workout that's best if your goal is living a long time and optimized health and longevity and flexibility.

This is to build muscle seems to be the point.

Right. [00:12:00] And like you'd mentioned in one of Mencer's video, he said you know, I'm not saying that this is going to create the best version of yourself or the highest quality of life, but by God, it's going to build some damn muscle. And I

think that's important to realize that's when we're saying, when we're [00:13:00] saying, Hey, this really has been working.

That's what we're saying has been working. It's been putting on muscle.

Now I feel like shit far more portions of the day that I ever have. So for

me, super hungry, like what's it feel like for you? I feel like I'm eating everything in the house and eating, but I'm

still losing weight. I cannot stop eating, but I did add the sauna.

Cause I got a three week free trial somewhere and they got a sauna. So I've been taking advantage of that. I'm doing two 15 minute sessions, five days a week. And that's. Probably part of my hunger issue, but I cannot stop eating and I'm still

losing weight. It almost feels a little bit like when you're on steroids But i've never been on steroids not steroids like the anabolic kind I mean like when you're sick and the doctor gives you steroids to help get over something, you know You just eat everything in the house.

That's kind of how i've been feeling like it's insane Yeah,

But i'm still losing weight and I still look more

trim And so i've been trying to pay attention to those Cravings and try to give my body the fuel that I think it's asking for right so getting protein. Yeah More carbs than I normally eat.

Right. Full disclosure, I added oatmeal for the first time in 8 to 10 years. It's in the maybe category for me when I [00:14:00] recommend it because of the lectin protein. You can see all kinds of episodes on that. So far, it doesn't seem to be affecting me in a negative way. Like, I look for hot spots and itching and that kind of stuff.

And I think if, if the Mike Mentzer workout had a perfect plate portion size, it would be 50 percent carbs from what I saw. Probably.

Carbs are extremely anabolic for muscle growth.

And which is weird because normally you think carbs. I think back to my cross country days and carbo loading before a workout.

Right. But my body seems to be craving them during this four day rest.

Right. Which is... Yeah, it's insane. Like my appetite is doubled. I, I, I have to pull over and like buy a protein drink somewhere. It's insane. But anyhow, so...

Yeah, I've been doing a lot more like, you know, whole grain rice. Kind of stuff.

Yep. And it's weird. I've never once in my life craved oatmeal, but I'm like, God damn it. I need some oatmeal. Yeah.

I think there's something to that. The cravings to like listening to your body and eating what your body's. I think there's something to connection that we don't quite understand yet. That's [00:15:00] probably smart to listen to.

I mean, unless your body's like, I need that sweet, sweet crack cocaine. You should probably ignore that voice from your

body. Yeah. So we'll continue this, this protocol and we'll report our findings after this new split.

Yeah, we're going to try to do like the four weeks of four, I think is what we're planning is.

Yeah. And

then what he's, what he says in the video is or in, in his teachings is

this, this is the part that really you shouldn't see brand. He's like, no, he's didn't, he

didn't want to, didn't want to even process it. But, So once you've done that, because you should be adding more weight as you grow stronger, you need to increase the amount of days of no workout.

So five days in between workouts, six days in between workouts, and eventually seven days in between workouts. Cause you're doing more and more damage, greater intensity as you're able to increase your weight to do more damage, which makes sense. And I can see without question, this is working. More than anything I've ever tried.

And I've tried at least 30 to 40 different protocols [00:16:00] at this point, German volume trained, like all kinds of stuff. Yeah, I

think it's fun to talk about like There is we're talking about it on the phone. This is why so many people and I give you Google Mike Mensah There's so many people that hate Mike Mensah Yeah, cuz he's

destroying the supplement industry if you're only taking pre workout once a week and you were taking it six days a week They're fucking pissed

You're not making money and if you're a gym person that wants people in there six hours a

day And taking advantage of personal training and the smoothie bar and all this other stuff.

Yep Yep, it's a it's real countercultural in that in that 1980s gold gym golden era of bodybuilding Yeah

But I will say, not a beginner program. Definitely not right for everybody.

Warm up. I saw one video, Brandon. I don't even know if I told you this. I think I did. He was talking about pre workout and he was saying how important it was to do 10 minutes of stretching and you got this giant muscular looking Arnold Schwarzenegger body type shorter but still like the same kind of muscle on frame guy doing stretches with the lady in the like she looks like she's like the [00:17:00] 1880s jazzercise jazzercise outfit and he's doing full splits leaned over Like this guy's super flexible He's like I always do 10 minutes of this before the Mike Mentzer workout so it's not like I think a lot of people hear like the Mike Wintzer workout is just like just go in there and kill one set.

Now that'd be really dumb. Yeah. If you don't stretch, if you don't warm up.

If you don't follow the protocol, if you don't understand proper form, if you're not in tune with your body, activating the proper muscles, not compensating. So there's a lot that should be

in place. And the other thing that we were surprised to find out, I just want to kind of mention everything, is that he said like you're loading up the weight and you, you say you're, you say you're going for five and you get to three and you're out of juice.

Don't reload and try to get five. Yeah, you'll get it next time which is weird when your next time is four days away Yep, or

in this case 16 days 16 days away to almost half a it's a half a month away

Plus a day like you'll get it next time. Yeah, it's just it's all very countercultural. I guess.

Yeah, [00:18:00] so I'm having a blast I friggin love it I'm excited to keep exploring this.

I've only done two of the four workouts of the new split but we'll see what happens.

Yeah. And right now I think you and I mentioned a couple of times to each other. Maybe this, it probably isn't the way to work out forever, but maybe this is a great thing to add once a year, you know,

I'm committed to doing that.

I miss working out every, I love to work out. It's fun. I enjoy it, but that's not everybody. So if you want the muscle, but you don't like spending the time in the gym, if you've got the proper base and you build up to it, perhaps this is a way

forward for you and, you know, we haven't talked about cardio.

What does the, what does the mensor feel about the cardio? Joe, I don't know. I, I saw this in a video. He said, if you must do cardio, and he was talking about people that are addicted to the gym and love it. Yeah. 30 minutes, once, in your rest day. In your rest period, that 40 off, if you

must. I have to say I haven't done cardio aside from circuit training in probably [00:19:00] 9 or 10 years.

And I've been able to maintain my 84 pound weight loss for 10 years now. So I don't think cardio is necessary, at least for weight loss, but there are benefits to it and cardiovascular benefits. So I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, but it's certainly not necessary for, for weight loss or for maintaining.

I did see one video where it was like he highlighted the benefits of Long walks, barefooted for grounding.

Yeah. Which is great. We've done episodes on that with Dr. Clinton or Clinton bears research and what he was able to discover with grounding. So I could get behind that.

And one more thing I did see in the videos.

He was like, so what do you do when you're bored? And the Mike Mentzer approach was learn philosophy. Really? Yep, that's what he said. How about that? Read philosophy books.

That's interesting. I don't know that I would do that if I was bored. Usually I do something like mind numbing. That makes me dumber. Ab workouts.

Ab workouts. That's right. You must. Nope. Two ab workouts.

Two ab workouts. But I think it's that radical approach to rest. Like, don't screw up your [00:20:00] potential. I mean, gains is the right word? Sure.

We'll go with that.

The, the maximizing the output. Exactly. Getting the most out of what you're doing. Right. So it's a weird regimen.

Yeah. It's definitely different than anything we tried.

Yeah, if you hate exercising, you hate spending time in the gym, or if you just have very limited time, this could super be your jam. This could super be your jam, but there has to be proper base because it's all about that base as Meghan Trainor.

Yes, no trouble. I hope I never make another Meghan Trainor reference for the rest of my life. But anyway those of you that like Meghan Trainor, I'm sure she's a fine artist. Anyway, uh, cool. So

it's a personal trainer decision, really.

It's a personal, very funny. We're both dads, so dad jokes are coming.

So yeah we'll keep reporting on this. We'll do another episode and as soon as we finish, do some

research. I would just say heavy duty training is Mike Minster's official YouTube channel. Of course he's passed away, but they're still posting new stuff, which is, it is

worth mentioning. He [00:21:00] died, but in his fifties.

Yes. Yeah.

So. Which is common in that era of bodybuilders. With steroid use and everything else. But I also heard that he, it was genetic. It was a common thing in his family to have. That going on. So he had that stacked against

him. And when you add steroids on top of that, you're just poking the bear. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. So, yeah,

It's poking the bear is also what people who take steroids. Call it the active. Are you kidding? No, I just, I am

Goebbels written on the ceiling. Oh, really poke the bear. Yeah, I mean hook, hook line and sinker. So yeah we'll keep reporting. It's good stuff. Research it probably don't try it if you've never trained before, I wouldn't start there, but we'll keep on reporting on this. [00:22:00]