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Best-selling author and longtime InForm Fitness client Gretchen Rubin joins us for Part 2 of our discussion regarding the process of developing healthy habits. If you are interested in losing some weight, gaining muscle, eating healthier, or even strengthening your relationships, Gretchen’s got ya covered with brilliant suggestions as to how and when is the best time to change a habit's trajectory. To purchase Gretchen's books, listen to The Happier Podcast with Gretchen Rubin, and to take the quiz to learn more your tendency visit http://gretchenrubin.com. To find Gretchen's audio books in Audible click here: http://bit.ly/AUDIBLE_GretchenRubin _______________________________________________________________ It's the LAST WEEK to earn one FREE SESSION when you leave a review for InForm Fitness in iTunes, Yelp, Google+, Facebook, & Amazon! Simply write a review and send a screenshot to podcast@informfitness.com - that's it! For each review you leave, you will receive and entry for the GRAND PRIZE! One lucky listener will receive a personally autographed copy of Adam Zickerman's book, Power of 10: The Once-a-Week Slow Motion Fitness Revolution. That listener will also get decked out in InForm Fitness apparel including an InForm Fitness T-shirt, hat, and a hoody jacket. And we’ll top off the prize pack with an Amazon Echo! Click here to see the Amazon Echo in action:http://bit.ly/2InFormFItnessGrandPrize Contest ends May 31st, 2017. Listen for more details! To find an Inform Fitness location nearest you visit www.InformFitness.com If you'd like to ask Adam, Mike or Sheila a question or have a comment regarding the Power of 10. Send us an email or record a voice memo on your phone and send it to podcast@informfitness.com. Join Inform Nation and call the show with a comment or question. The number is 888-983-5020, Ext. 3. To purchase Adam's book, Power of 10: The Once-a-Week Slow Motion Fitness Revolution click this link to visit Amazon: http://bit.ly/ThePowerofTen If you would like to produce a podcast of your own just like The Inform Fitness Podcast, please email Tim Edwards at tim@InBoundPodcasting.com
Now listened to in 100 countries, The InForm Fitness Podcast with Adam Zickerman is a presentation of InForm Fitness Studios, specializing in safe, efficient, High Intensity strength training.
Adam discusses the latest findings in the areas of exercise, nutrition and recovery with leading experts and scientists. We aim to debunk the popular misconceptions and urban myths that are so prevalent in the fields of health and fitness and to replace those sacred cows with scientific-based, up-to-the-minute information on a variety of subjects. The topics covered include exercise protocols and techniques, nutrition, sleep, recovery, the role of genetics in the response to exercise, and much more.
30 Gretchen Rubin Discusses Improving Your Habits_Pt 2
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, habits, clean slate, eat, feel, week, lover, abundance, easier, podcast, gretchen, book, exercise, work, read, fitness, rule, cookies, questions, abstain
SPEAKERS
Gretchen Rubin, Tim Edwards, Sheila, Adam, Mike
Gretchen Rubin 00:05
To like an uncanny degree, we're very, very influenced just by how easy something is. And so for something like working out, you want to make it as easy as possible. And I've heard from many people who say that they sleep in their workout clothes, so they don't have to get dressed in the morning. Just one thing that you can do. But again, like if it's much easier for you and your schedule to work out at a time, that's something we're thinking about, like the idea that you should do it first thing in the morning, it's like, well, if it's easier for you to do it at lunchtime, then you should do what works for you because it's like you'll stick to it better if it's convenient.
Tim Edwards 00:42
Inform nation. Welcome to Episode 30 of the inform fitness podcast, and part two of our interview with Best Selling Author Gretchen Rubin. I'm Tim Edwards with the inbound podcasting network and a client of inform fitness for the past year and a half or so at the time of this recording. And in less than a minute, we will be joined by the founder of inform fitness himself, Adam Zickerman will also be joined by the co owner of the Toluca Lake Burbank location, Sheila melody and the GM of the Manhattan location. Mike Rogers. All right, so who's in for developing better habits that result in positive outcomes? Well, we all are, you wouldn't have subscribed to this podcast if you weren't. However, as we all know, sometimes it's difficult to perhaps kick a bad habit, or to start a healthy new one. Whether you want to lose some weight or gain some muscle, eat healthier and even strengthen your relationships. Gretchen Rubins got you covered with some brilliant suggestions as to how and equally is important when to change your habits trajectory. And this episode is about twice as long as our normal episode. So let's get right to it. Here's part two of our interview with Best Selling Author Gretchen Rubin.
Adam 01:53
So Gretchen you talk about these tendencies, these four tendencies. And then you start talking about if you're going to start somewhere, you might as well start with some of the big ones. Yeah, the big habits, I guess, like almost like a like a Maslow's hierarchy type of thing. You know, the basic foundation, you say, if you're going to start working on some, some habits, some foundation, you call them the foundational habits, it's best to start with a couple of the key ones like like dealing with your sleep. Alright, dealing with moving exercise, you call it move? And then also what you eat and drink.
Gretchen Rubin 02:27
Yeah,
Adam 02:28
getting control of your nutrition. And then of course, another one, the fourth one that you call unclutter.
Gretchen Rubin 02:33
Yeah.
Adam 02:34
Which seems to be the big that to me, that was a big one for me, because I you know, I would love to deal with my my tendency to clutter. But I when I was when I was reading that section, it, it just jumped out at me that the three pillars of our exercise program, high intensity exercise is very similar. We say, you know, to really, the foundation of a fitness plan should deal with exercise, it should deal with rest, like you say sleep and nutrition. So three out of your four foundational habits are very parallel to each other. Yeah. So I found that to be pretty interesting. And I agree. I mean, like, God, if you can only get a handle on sleep, right?
Gretchen Rubin 03:13
Yeah Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that you're exactly right. I think there's a lot of agreement on the fact that these are like the foundations because because they are, you know, just just super, super important so that they come up over and over again. And the reason that they come up, I think is that they are what they're important to haven't changed generally is they're sort of, if you don't have control of these areas of your life, you it's very hard to have self command. It's very hard to just have the energy and the kind of self mastery that you need to make other kinds of changes. So you might say to yourself, Well, what I really need to do is to start this side business, but if you're exhausted all the time, and you know, and you just feel like it's sluggish and you have to take a nap every day three, and you're surrounded by a mess. It just feels harder to do that. Because you but once you get enough sleep you get some exercise you're eating and drinking. Right and you kind of and then the unclutter. I have to say most people don't point to unclutter as part of these foundations. They just talk about the three. But I have found that over and over people say that they do feel the sense of kind of energy and possibility that comes from just getting rid of junk always does something there's some tie I don't understand it really it doesn't really seem rational but over and over people say they feel that way. And then once you have that, then it's easier to do these other habits like if it's something like you know, I want to you know, call my parents once a week or I want to write a novel in my free time or I want to start meditating or I want to get back into speaking Italian it all just feels so much easier to build off of they're all built up the that's why the foundation are the pillars because everything comes from there. And one of the things I think people sometimes do is they forget about the body. And the fact is your physical experience is always going to be part of your emotional experience. You can never leave your body behind and and so if you take care of Your body, that is just going to make it much easier to do other things.
Adam 05:04
I see all the time when people are having trouble losing weight, and they start this workout and not that this is a weight loss program. But because they're doing this and they've committed to this next thing, you know, they say, you know, I'm now I'm going to start with all of a sudden it feeds off, and now they want to take care of their eating.
Sheila 05:18
Yeah, right
Gretchen Rubin 05:19
now there's definitely something where when people start making one kind of positive change, it feels like it's easier to make other kinds of positive changes. Because sometimes people start with like, very strange things, like somebody will start by saying, like, I'm going to give up chewing gum, or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to drink more water. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, you only have so much effort in you to change a habit. Get more sleep, dude, don't worry about drinking more water.
Adam 05:42
And speaking of sleep, I remember reading an article in The New York Times Magazine several years ago, it was about the stigma of people that are, as you would call in your book, owls, people that wake up late and stay up late. They may still get plenty of sleep. Yeah, as long as they wake up at 11 in the morning. And the stigma was that, you know, we live in a society where you're supposed to wake up early, get to work, do your job. And if you don't, if you're not that person, if you're not a lark, as you refer to it as then you are lazy. And I see that with people that come to work out. And a lot of people ask me, Well, when's the best time to work out? And I always respond with another question. I say, well, when are you at your best? Or are you a morning person, No, then you're not going to work out in the morning. But I was told that you're supposed to work out in the morning, you're supposed to eat breakfast in the morning. And those rules don't apply.
Gretchen Rubin 06:34
It's always what works for you. I completely agree. I think it's a big mistake to say like, What's the best thing to do? It's always what's the best thing for you? And it's interesting, because you're absolutely right. Some people are just naturally night people. And that's largely genetically determined and a function of age. That's something that you can change by sort of changing your bedtime. And it's true that when they do the research suggests that people who are owls are less happy. And they think it's because really our culture is set up right for for for larks. And school starts early. So children have to be up and run early children are naturally Lark ish, as many parents will say,
Tim Edwards 07:15
young children, not teenagers.
Gretchen Rubin 07:17
But I think increasingly, there's an awareness of this. And like, there's a lot of movements to try to get school to start later. And I mean, and I often say to people, like maybe at work, if there's like an 8:30am meeting that's just crushing you maybe say, Hey, can we move it till 1130? Because half of the people in that room are like barely conscious. Sometimes you can't change things. But sometimes you can't. And certainly like when you work out this idea that you should get up early and work out for a lot of people that's just setting themselves up for failure, because they're at their most energetic later in the day. So you're I think it's such good advice to say to people, well, let's talk about what works for you, not what works, like in theory, or like what works for your brother in law, what works for Steve Jobs,
Sheila 07:55
I'll you know, ask people to try, you know, let's try an appointment in the morning. Let's try one in the, you know, mid afternoon, evening. Some people do that. And then it's very clear, you know, where they're performing better. I've had clients Oh, they normally come at 10am. And then she had a meeting. And so she had to come at four. And she just did not work out well. And she said, That's it, I'm not I'm not coming at for anymore. It's just not worth it.
Gretchen Rubin 08:20
Well, the other thing, the other strategy that's that comes into play is the strategy of convenience. Because to like an uncanny degree, we're very, very influenced just by how easy something is. And so for something like working out, you want to make it as easy as possible. And I've heard from many people who say that they sleep in their workout clothes, so they don't have to get dressed in the morning, just one thing that you can do. But again, like if it's much easier for you and your schedule to work out at a time, that's something we're thinking about, like the idea that you should do it first thing in the morning, it's like, well, if it's easier for you to do it at lunchtime, then you should do what works for you. Because it's like, you'll stick to it better if it's convenient.
Adam 08:55
I'm trying to put things together a little bit as I read your book was you have that you have these tendencies, these four tendencies, and then you have the foundational habits that you should maybe if you want to start somewhere, start with those, those four, and then you start talking about all kinds of different traits that people have. Yeah, whether you're a lark or an hour, you also talk about abundance lovers, for example, versus a minimalist or simplistic person, right? Simplicity lover, right. So, and many more like that. So how does how do those tie into our tendencies?
Gretchen Rubin 09:27
they don't, the tendency is just a bit? That's a great question. The tendency is a very, very narrow aspect of your personality. So like one of the one of the big distinctions is abstain or and moderator which has to do with how you you deal with strong temptation. So I'm an upholder, and I'm an abstainer. But many upholders are moderators. And so you can be a simplicity lover and a questioner like they don't they're not all correlated that again, it's like because the the tendency is just one very narrow aspect and then there are these other aspects that also come into play. Because like, say something like an abundance lover, they're often attracted choice so they might prefer to go to a gym It has many, many classes and many, many options because they like that they like abundance and profusion and choice and collections and a lot going on. And then a simplicity lover, I think I'm a simplicity lover. And that's one of the things I like about this place is it's quiet, it's limited, there are no choices. It's kind of a very clean, simplified, streamlined experience. Some people don't like that some people prefer a different kind of out, you know, they want like, people talking and lots of music. And you know, it's like, whatever works for you. different environments are more appealing to different people.
Adam 10:30
I also realized, however, when I was reading this about abundance lovers, you know, it's like abundance lovers, you hear what I just said, Now that abundance of lovers and abundance lover, a little freudian slip there, maybe I don't know. So we have all kinds of people coming in to try this in high intensity workout. And part of the job of a trainer that's doing an intake of a new person is to try to figure out who this person is and what appeals to them, and what aspects of this workout might appeal to them. So it's obvious that a simplistic lover
Gretchen Rubin 11:04
simplicity lover
Adam 11:05
simplicity lover, thank you would really like this because like you said, it's simple. It's quick, its efficient, move on, it's not cluttered in some way. Then I then you mentioned the abundance lover, and I'm saying, Well, does that mean abundance lover would just not like this workout, because the abundance lover intellectually will read about this and say, Wow, that makes sense. That's logical. So when I find that I might be with an abundance lover, somebody that's telling me their history of exercise in a workout, they do this, they do that they do this, I still realize that I have to point something out to them. And that is, you can have all that, by the way.
Gretchen Rubin 11:42
Yeah
Adam 11:42
we just want to really include this. And understand that there's a balance between intensity, and moderation. So all those other programs that you're doing as long as they're in moderation, and not taxing a system too much enjoy them. So if you like bike riding, if you like yoga, pilates, that's all well and good. And we're not saying we're not saying do high intensity exercise, but in the, at the exclusion of those things. What I do want to balance however, if you're going to do a high intensity exercise for 20 minutes, once a week, leave it at that as far as the intensity is concerned and enjoy the rest of all those activities. You know, so So in other words, an abundance lover doesn't necessarily have to say, that's not for me, because I like doing all these things,
Sheila 12:26
Is there some way that we could simplify, I would love to, I'm intrigued now by revisiting all this, we could maybe change our intake form to put certain questions on there, you know, that would help us to see the tendencies of our clients not not like the full quiz, but you know, like some kind of, you know, maybe just these things, do you like simplicity? Or do you like abundance? I don't know, those kinds of things?
Adam 12:51
Well, we have in a way we do we have some questions, like our intake form will ask questions like, why is this important to you? Why is this important to you now? Or, you know, what? How would you describe your your personal trainer? The idea? How would you describe the ideal personal trainer, right? Uh, things like that, which gives you insight into some of these things. But you're right, I think maybe there can be some key questions, maybe the maybe the questions that you ask on your quiz. Yeah. Or some version of that would be a good idea.
Gretchen Rubin 13:20
No, I mean, I think you really could tailor thing your your conversation very differently depending on what the person's tendency is. Because it would what will resonate with them will be very different.
Adam 13:31
If I notice, I'm talking to an upholder, my tone might be a little bit more direct and say, you know, this is what we're gonna do. Yeah. And do this, you're gonna be in there. 20 minutes, you're going to work out really hard, it's going to be very safe. And you're on your way, like, Okay, let's get started. They don't even they don't need the old explanations. They don't have all those controversial questions that that were normally ask
Gretchen Rubin 13:50
well. And so what you find often is that, so questioners have so many more questions than other people, they can often drain people. Yeah. Because they ask you any questions, or they'll feel like their questions haven't been answered sufficiently. But then sometimes you get into a situation where some people are like, well, you're just explaining too much. I don't need to know all of this. So you might say to somebody, like, I'm happy to keep I'm happy to go deeper into the research if you want, or if you feel like you know enough to proceed, we can go and kind of give the people an option whether to go in or go out. Because a lot of times, that's a tension, where, like a questioner will want to really, really, really explain and then other people are like, you know, I don't really need to sit through that. Or like, you know, or the question is like, I'm not ready to buy into this because my questions haven't been answered in someone else's like one sorry, because your time is up, I need to move on. I can't answer questions for three hours, but it's like, but you need to answer you have to answer those questioners question. So I think it really is something that can could change, just communication in subtle ways that would make it easier for people to stick to it.
Adam 14:48
The rebels is kind of interesting one, because when I work with a rebel, I can't tell them something like during the workout, I can say to them, you know, don't hold your breath or don't lock out your knees. I'll say you Read freely, I try to breathe more freely, instead of saying don't do something, you tell somebody, you know, rebel not to do something. Yeah. So, you know, so you have to reframe what you want them to do and not make it so much of a command like that.
Gretchen Rubin 15:12
Well, and one thing that works, that's a great, that's so interesting to hear in it. Another thing that works with rebels is information consequences choice. So you give them the information they need to make the, to make the choice that is gonna work for them. So you might say, like, people who breathe during this exercise tend to be able to complete more, right? That's just information, the consequences, like they'll may be able to be more successful at it, that's up to them, you know? Or, you know, we find that when people, you know, come once a week, we see much quicker progress than people who come more sporadically. That's just information up to you, you know, what you want, rather than saying, but you could see, someone could say something like, Listen, I'm telling you right now, I want to see you here every week. And then they're like, You know what, you're not the boss of me, I'm not gonna come, you know. And so I think you really you and like you say, people sort of some kind of, like, intuitively, sometimes it can change. But I think if you understand, like, what's triggering it, but somebody might say, like, well, if you really want to get if you really want to work out, you have to commit to a time it's like, no, you don't know if that's not going to work for you to get back to your point, Adam, do what works for you, let's think about you what works for you. Let's set things up. So it's gonna feel like the right thing for you. Um, what a great question to ask people is, is there a time when you've succeeded in the past? Because a lot of times people will say like, oh, yeah, that I did that. Like when I was living in this group house after college, I was really good about doing X, Y, or Z. And you're like, Okay, well, let's think about what was it about that time? Or like, oh, as soon as XYZ happened, I stopped. Okay. Well, what was really changing, cuz sometimes people think it's one thing, but it's really something totally different. That's disrupted a habit. So it's really helpful to think about the past.
Mike 16:51
I honestly, I'm, I always say like, you know, like, if you think about anything that you've been successful in the past, what did you do, and it sort of even echoes one of the other points you have on your book about, you manage what you monitor, you know, and like, and if you don't schedule things and monitor them, you're really your, your, your, your recipe for success is gonna be very limited. You know
Adam 17:11
this is unbelievable, and for me, I almost feel like better than before should be a handbook for new trainers out there. Understanding all this, and people can only help communicate better with them. But a lot of people listen to our episodes of this podcast that aren't trainers
Gretchen Rubin 17:30
right
Adam 17:31
And you're listening to this, and you're just a enthusiast about high intensity training, and you want to learn more about it. What can the trainee get out of better than before as far as understanding themselves? I guess, and how they should approach the value of high intensity exercise for them?
Gretchen Rubin 17:47
Well, I think it's really about how do you get yourself to stick to it? Because the fact is, like, the best workout X, you know, theory in the world is going to do nobody any good if you don't actually do it, you know, so and this is the thing where people get hung up, like, they'll do research, like, Oh, I'm questioners, we'll do this, I'm going to do research, research research, to find out what's the best way and then they never actually get into the gym, because they're so busy researching it. So I think part of it is, is just figuring out, first of all, how are you going to get yourself to exercise? And second of all, what is that exercise gonna be? And so what what would you pick that would make sense for you. And so that's, that's what I think is
Adam 18:25
if you are somebody that needs accountability, in the sense that so some of this accountability, so if you're an obliger, for example, if you're noticing yourself as an obliger, and you want to really stick to this program, maybe you well, you have the appointments here, but also maybe you do with a friend, right? Yeah, you talked about having accountability to a friend and a partner in this type of thing. You also talk, you know, again, if you're a lark or an owl, and to understand, hey, you don't have to work out in the morning, if you're an out, you know, so these are the kind of tips for people to kind of ask themselves, like almost like a, like a questionnaire for themselves, to to kind of help them establish when and how they should do this, and how they're going to stick to it. So if you're somebody that needs to do with a friend, then go find a friend, recruit a friend, and then maybe book your appointments right next to each other, or workout together. If you're not going to a train, or maybe you one person trains, you train each other, you learn how to train each other, and you do that. Are there other types of
Gretchen Rubin 19:24
distinctions like that?
Adam 19:25
Yeah
Gretchen Rubin 19:25
how are people are different from each other?
Adam 19:26
Yeah
Gretchen Rubin 19:27
Well, one of the big ones that's been the most helpful for people is abstaining and moderating
Adam 19:31
Oh right.
Gretchen Rubin 19:32
So the strategy of abstaining is one of the 21 strategies and this is the and this has to do with how you most successfully face a strong temptation. We can all be moderate in the face of weak temptation. And abstainers or people who are kind of all or nothing people like they can have none pretty easily, but once they start, they're gonna go all the way. So like, I can have no cookies, or I can have 11 cookies, but it's I can't have one cookie. And that's because I'm an abstainer and for an abstainer is just easier like not to get started. And for moderators, they get kind of panicky and rebellious if they're told they can never have something. So they do better when they have a little bit, they have it sometimes. So like, these are the people who have the bar of fine chocolate in their drawer. And then like every two days, they have one square fine chocolate, that's all they need
Mike 20:14
I could never do that.
Gretchen Rubin 20:15
Yeah, I could never do that. I'm an abstainer. And I have a tremendous sweet tooth. And I mean, I have talked a lot about how I gave up sugar basically gave up carbs. And it was just such a relief to me, because I'm like, all that just went away, because it used to spend so much time like 1 2 3 4. Now later, it's my birthday, it's raining, I deserve it, I need it. And now I just like I just don't eat that stuff. So it doesn't bother me and I can sit, I could sit here with a plate of cookies in front of me. And it just I don't need it. So it does so because I'm an abstainer. And this isn't just for food, it's also for technology. And like on the happier podcast, Elizabeth has talked several times about her problem with Candy Crush. And, you know, it was affecting her career, it was affecting her physical health, her son, her like young son was like mommy I have to delete it from your phone. I mean, I'm like, your son is trying to do an intervention. And she just can't play a little candy crush, she's tried and she just can't play Candy Crush. And so you know, so I know, guys, that World of Warcraft meant that it took him an extra year to write his PhD thesis, I mean, something, you know, somebody's like, I can't go on. Like, I can't read a little bit of political stuff. You know, like, once I'm reading, I'm starting down that rabbit hole, and it's gonna be three hours, I just can't I just can't go online and read political commentary. So one of the things though, is that we're often taught like back to your point, Adam, about like, you're told how you should do it. We're often told, like moderation is the best way and like you should do you know, have a little bit you follow the 80 20 rule. And it's not healthy to be too rigid. But what I found is that for a lot of people, it's easier to have none. It's it sounds harder, but it's actually easier. And so if you are having trouble being moderate, try abstaining, because so many people have said to me, oh my gosh, I never thought I could give up flour, or I never thought you know, I never thought I could give up sugar. And I realized once I gave it up, it's just not that hard. But that's not true for everyone. Because for moderators, they get kind of panicky and weird if they try to give up something altogether. So it's not that one way is right, one way is wrong, or one way is better. It's or one way is the right way. It's just that for some people one way works better. And for other people the other way works better. And so figure out what you aren't.
Mike 22:24
I like achieving things, you know, like, like, for example, if I say I'm not going to have sugar all week for six and a half days of the week,
Adam 22:34
that's that blast thing you're talking about, like, you can use Where do you call that?
Gretchen Rubin 22:38
A blast start
Adam 22:39
Yeah, so So Mike's great blast starting? Yeah. Alright, he's easy to commit to doing something for like 60 days, 90 days, 100 days, you know, he will he'll be like, dead on never never viewing.
Mike 22:50
but I but the thing is, I love earning a day where I can have my pizza, you know, or have whatever it whatever it is, and, and I feel like that's, like that gratification came with it the hard work, and I and it gets me it motivates me to go back on to the whole thing, you know, immediately afterwards. So that four hour diet thing. I mean, I, you know, like the Tim Ferriss thing that I you know, of course try that out. And I think it's probably I look back on my life. It's for me what works for me is a model like that, which is highly structured. And then after I feel like I've earned it, like let's say after a week or two weeks, and I let myself have the things I love like chocolate chip cookies or pizza
Gretchen Rubin 23:33
I would I would reframe that. Instead of saying it's a reward. I would say it's a planned exception. So you're growing up, you can do what you want. You might say like, you know, I'm not going out with my buddies, I'm gonna drink. I'm gonna drink beer, I'm gonna eat pizza, I'm gonna like have ice cream or whatever it is. Um nachos. And t's a planned exception, which means I plan it in advance. I anticipate it with pleasure. I follow my rules for myself. In the moments I'm showing self control, and I look back on it with pleasure. That was a great night, I had so much fun with the guys. What happens mostly with people is they're like, oh, my gosh, I'm being so good for a month I'm quitting sugar. But oh, here I am in a restaurant with my husband. And it's a lovely night and they're having a third special dessert. How can I not have tiramisu? Life's too short to deny myself I don't want to miss out on this special occasion. I don't you know, after the day I've had I've earned it. I'm going to have it. So they have you don't and then you leave and you're like oh my gosh, I did not keep my I didn't keep my I didn't keep my word to myself and then you feel out of control. So the plan exception I think is good. I would not. I mean, in my view, I have a lot in better than before about rewards. I think it's very dangerous to start getting into this business of reward. Because inevitably, people start giving themselves lots of rewards for things they haven't even earned and then you get it then you're not making a habit because you're always deciding did I earn it? Did I justify it? I think it's just like, the way I think is more helpful is just like this is the way I want to eat. This is or this is what I want to do this is what I've decided is the right thing. If I want to take some time off, or if I want to change the rules for myself, that's I can do that. And, and I'm going to enjoy it. But I'm going to I'm going to do it in a deliberate, thoughtful way. I have a friend who's totally, totally not low carb, yoga instructor. And he was going to Montana, he was staying near this place that was famous for their pies, and he loves pies. So he made a rule for himself. That was every day when he was on vacation. He could have pie at every meal, he could only have one piece of pie, he couldn't have whipped cream or ice cream, and he couldn't buy a pie and take it back to his hotel room. In the restaurant. He had a pie at every meal for like a week. So that's a lot of pie. But he loved it. He loved it. He was looking forward to it. Love it. He got what he wanted. And he came home and he went right back to low carb because it wasn't like oh, right. Well, I've been home for a week. I've been so good for a week. I deserve a piece of pie now. It's like that was that was Montana. That was high time right now I'm back to the way I think
Mike 26:00
you say you say plan exception. And I mean, in a simpler term, I actually talk to people and say, Hey, listen, make an appointment, make it like, make an appointment.
Adam 26:08
Talk about that
Mike 26:08
you know, and that's the thing. I'm like, if you know, like, you're going to dinner next Thursday, and it's at a great restaurant, and you know, they have the best pop over in New York City, then it's like, okay, well, you know, earn that. But plan it. So it's like you you own that decision it doesn't own you. Yeah, you know, as versus like, you know, you're in the office, and there's a big cook.
Gretchen Rubin 26:28
Yeah. And then and then it's like, at the end of the day, you're like, did I even eat those cookies? You get no pleasure. Yeah, just makes you good. And also, sometimes people would like try to give themselves something to make themselves feel better. But then in the end, it just makes them feel worse, like that cookie plate in the office, like, yeah, it feels good for a minute, but then you're like, What did I do. Whereas if you're looking forward to the special dessert, it's part of a whole celebration. I have to say, though, for me, it's easier never to have, like, I don't ever break the rules, because once I start breaking them, then it just reignites my sweet tooth and then that I have to deal with that buzziness that I don't like. So I don't make exceptions. But I'm very rare. Like, I'm friends with Gary Taubes. I'm like more strict than Gary Taubes. Because,
Adam 27:09
just so you know, Gary Taubes is the author of good calories, bad calories, or why we get fat. And he's done a lot of research against sugar in the case against sugar. Yeah,
Gretchen Rubin 27:17
yeah. So he is really a leader. And he's the person who converted me, I read why we get fat. And that was like, overnight, I just changed everything. The way I eat. So I look to him is like my, the leader of my, like, my own in my own life of, of going low carb. But again, it's like there's no right way or wrong way. For you, Mike a planned exception. Everyone's like, you're very, very strict, you get a kick out of being very, very strict, like very hard. Yeah, you get into that, and then you're like, No, I'm gonna have the day off. That works for you. Um, doesn't work for me.
Mike 27:50
It doesn't work for a lot of people. I've learned that from communicating this because people ask me, How do you do it? How do you enjoy life so much, but you also know how to stay on your plan. And the thing is, you know, and I mean, I do have my times of weakness like Gary Taubes, apparently. But it's but, um, but I needed something. And it does. I think for my better self, for what I really want, it probably would be to my probably better if I did completely abstain, but I would I have to reconcile in my mind is that life is short. I want to suck up the marrow of all these experiences where and trying to sort of like
Gretchen Rubin 27:52
that's how most people feel
Mike 28:29
Yeah, exactly.
Gretchen Rubin 28:30
Yeah, that's how most people feel most of you will like my father who's kind of like you. So he has sort of what I would call the grandchild exception, which is if there's a grandchild around, he's making pancakes, he's going to the ice cream shop. You know, he's like, like, let's stop for a giant cookie. Let's have a corn dog.
Adam 28:47
Is that was visiting your kids all the time?
Gretchen Rubin 28:51
It's like, it makes that time more special. Again, it's a celebration, it makes it more fun for him because he's like, wow, we're gonna stop for ice cream. But it's limited because the fact is, he does. He's not with a grandchild all that much. And so it's a way to enjoy life and those treats in a way that then leaves regular life, kind of, because the fact is, if Basically, most of the time you're really healthy. That's good enough what you do most of the time matters more than what you do every once in a while. But for a lot of people, the once in a while starts encroaching it builds and builds and builds the exceptions build and pretty soon they're right back where they started. Question is, how do you maintain most of the time? For me, most of the time is easier when it's all the time but for most people most of the time, you know, but then also it's like the holiday exception. I mean, this is bad people go nuts on vacation, you know,
Mike 29:44
guilty
Gretchen Rubin 29:45
You know, it's sort of like it's fine if you go away for like four days but you know, if you if you can, if you're like, oh, this summer, you know, it's a holiday you know, like if you're like Oh, Christmas Day I you know, even if it's like if it's from like November 15 to January Third, that's a lot of time.
Mike 30:02
I just got back from my vacation, I made rules that I was gonna let my dinners be like, very, very like, unregulated. Exactly. And but I was very, very compliant for the early part of the day. And you know, and I said, that made me feel good for vacation. I was like
Gretchen Rubin 30:16
So my sister's rule is that she's very, very good at work, because she's a TV writer. And they're notorious that I'm seeing it with my own eyes, like the food that they have in these places, they'll get anything you want. There's every every kind of every kind of junk food, every kind of health food, any kind of anything, just spilling out everywhere.
Adam 30:32
And a lot of cigarettes too. Yeah. I don't suppose. No more,
Gretchen Rubin 30:39
I'll ask her. But, and then like, the studio will send like special cupcakes. So there's a bit of work. So her rule is, she's very, very diligent and conscientious about what she eats at work. And of course, she's a type two diabetic, being a type one diabetic. So it's, it's more serious for her. So she's really really scrupulous at work. And then she, when she's home, it's, it's like, it's family time. It's looser. And that works for her. Because it's like, if she, she has to figure out some kind of boundaries for work, because otherwise it just would be totally out of control. And I think we're habit forming, a lot of times people do need to think about, okay, what are my weekday habits, and what are my weekend habits, and to really accommodate the fact that for some people, the week and the weekend are very, very different and pose different challenges and different, different temptations. Now, I know some people who like to exercise one or two times during the week, and both days during the weekend, I know people who exercise four times during the week and never exercise on the weekend, you know, it's like, again, back to Adams point, there's no right way or wrong way. It's just whatever works for you. But you might have to think about, okay, this is what works for me when I'm basically at work or like putting my kids to bed and you know, going to sleep myself, but then on Saturday and Sunday, when things are looser, I need to rethink what my habits are gonna look like. So that that time is I feel good about how I'm spending that time.
Mike 31:12
Well, the thing is that, you know, I think that's probably easier for most people, because generally, most people's work days, most people are predictable. Yeah. So they're like, it's a certain time they get there, they wake up a certain time, blah, blah, but not with their kids, which may have been such Variable schedules on the weekend. And I we have a lot of clients who actually say the same thing, they actually have a lot of discipline with whatever they're doing during Monday through Friday, but Saturday, and Sunday is always a struggle because of that. Yeah. Yeah. Because of the unpredictability of their schedule.
Sheila 32:24
Yeah, I think I'm one of those, like, I stay in the in the schedule during the week. And then on the weekend, I make it more of a recreational exercise, if I want to do it, do it with somebody or with a family member. And you know, It's same with meals too, like I try to stay really on, on count, you know, like on the point in a good day. And, and then on the weekends, I just kind of relax a little bit more, but I still don't, you know, but I also go through phases, I think to, like, I'll go through a phase of where I'm doing really good, you know, 100% of the time, even on the weekends and everything as far as the diet is concerned. And I think that's related to, to like, moods or something. You know, you go through a phase where you're like, you can really take on that diet. It's like what Adam said in the beginning, a lot of people they start the exercise and we try to not you have to be in the right mood to go on a diet or to like change your eating habits.
Adam 33:25
Or start,
Gretchen Rubin 33:26
yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why habits can be really valuable. Because once something's a habit, it's on autopilot. So you don't have to worry about your mood. You don't have to worry about how you feel about something. It's like it doesn't matter how you feel. Are you gonna get up and go? Like, do I feel like going to inform fitness, it doesn't matter how you feel? It doesn't matter.
Adam 33:45
That's a habit.
Gretchen Rubin 33:45
Yeah, it's just the habit of doing it. It's like do you ask yourself like, oh, do I feel? Do I feel like cheerful enough to brush my teeth?
Adam 33:53
So Gretchen, I had a client this morning. We're just talking. And he just overcame food poisoning.
Gretchen Rubin 33:59
Oh, bad.
Adam 34:01
And it made me think immediately what you talked about in your book about a clean slate.
Gretchen Rubin 34:07
Ah, yeah.
Adam 34:08
So we're going to talk about the Clean Slate and then I'll tell you about this conversation.
Gretchen Rubin 34:11
Ah, well, the clean slate is that. So basically, when you're trying to think about when to change a habit, the best time is always now like if you're ready to begin begin now. But there are times that feel more auspicious or that are are really good times and one is the clean slate and that is after we go through a major transition. Old habits are wiped away. And so it's easier for new habits to form. So if you've got have a new job, if you switch schools, if you have a new puppy, if you have a new car, all these things can like make it easier to change your habits. And in fact, in one study of people who made a significant habit change, moving like moving from one apartment or house to another was a time when people were able to make big habit changes like when they quit smoking. People always say if you're moving, that is a great time to quit smoking. And so it could be clean slate I mean, you really kind of like that. That is such a violent kind of attack on the body and you feel so kind of probably washed clean, but that might be a good clean slate because it's sort of like sort of sugar cravings or whatever, it's you're back down to zero.
Adam 35:14
So three days later, after the food poisoning subsided, he realized because he's always he needs to lose 20 pounds, the guy is going back and forth up and down with his 20 pounds and the food poisoning happens. And now he's down like five pounds in three days, six pounds in three days.
Gretchen Rubin 35:28
Oh my god
Adam 35:28
I just reading the book, I was like, Hey, this is this is a perfect clean slate for you. This is this is a perfect opportunity. Good Jumpstart.
Gretchen Rubin 35:31
Yeah
Adam 35:33
for you to just stay on your no sugar die, which I've been. He's been on and off for a while. So he was really excited about this. And I was really excited that I asked some good advice to give to him.
Gretchen Rubin 35:46
And and
Adam 35:47
thanks to you
Gretchen Rubin 35:48
And I think there is something about like an illness like that where it does wipe away. Like I think there is sort of this idea that you have kind of these cravings are great. Like, every time you have something sweet, it just kicks in that you're going to want more and more. And after something like that, that's all blown out. I remember my mother got food poisoning and she lost her she'd always had had a lot of diet soda. And when she came back from it, she completely lost your taste for diet soda, like something had just kind of been killed off in her.
Adam 36:14
I lost my taste for southern comfort for the same reason.
Gretchen Rubin 36:21
But I think but what's great is that one of the problems with clean slate is that you have to notice that you're going through a transition and take advantage of it. Because it is a really excellent time. And habit change can be easier. But you have to realize like, oh, this could be a good time for me. And I heard this funny story from a guy who he said he was like totally addicted to junk food, and would eat fast food on his way home from work and he just couldn't resist it. He said it was literally like his car. It was like, you know, HERBIE, the lovebug magically turning into the driveway, because he would go down this highway was lined with fast food and he couldn't resist couldn't resist. And then, and then he got a new car. And you know how cars, they just smell so clean. They're so pristine. And he said, I'm never going to get fast food in this car. And so, and he said it was never a temptation for him. Okay, this is just like, this is like food poisoning. This is a new car, this is a clean slate for me. Am I going to take advantage of it because even a week later, it's sort of too late because those old habits rushing so quickly. And then they quickly like lock you in. We've all felt to have it lock in after two or three times. So that's great. Oh, well, that's like a positive like talk about a silver lining,
Adam 37:27
which is, again, why I want everyone that works. As a trainer in high intensity training, I really highly suggest all trainers read this book to give you some real, some really good tools to help understand people and to help motivate them to create good habits.
Gretchen Rubin 37:44
Yeah.
Mike 37:44
Is there any way because if you recognized it, or recognize that you've been motivated in the past, from having a clean slate time in your life? Yeah, is there a way to manufacture it and you know, like to just like artificially create a clean slate.
Gretchen Rubin 37:59
So one way you can do it is by redecorating your environment. So you could paint a room or like rearrange the furniture. I think partly that's part you know, we were talking earlier about the decluttering and like kind of the weird power of decluttering I think sometimes like if you do a really deep clean that feels like literally like a clean slate like I know somebody who said to me she said I cleaned out my fridge and suddenly I felt like I could switch careers and somebody else I know who every now but again but you get it right and somebody else who every January 1 empties out her refrigerator entirely the mustard, the pickles everything. She just goes down. And there's something about just like physically cleaning. Or if you could even do like this guy with the with the problem with the with the fast food. It's like well, why don't you drive home a different way? Because part of it is you're driving down the highway and you're seeing the Taco Bell in the McDonald's and you're thinking about
Mike 38:54
there's just other way to go. right some other people on the podcast or just like oh great, gonna go buy yourself a new car or give me something I was like buying a new car.
Adam 39:09
I got an idea if you want to get into intimate fasting I know it works for me is when I want to start intimate fast I get my teeth cleaned
Gretchen Rubin 39:15
that's interesting, or you might you might kind of give yourself like even like, like a full body cleansing or like a facial like you're right. actually thought about the clean aspect of the Clean Slate but maybe that's something it is like something clean not sullying a clean environment with sort of like whatever the bad habit is. So I think when things have metaphoric power like that, it's especially powerful so that's a great thing.
Adam 39:46
It might be what you also said about brushed you know, almost very similarly, the brushing your teeth at night so you don't eat again. It's just a snack at night if that happens to be one of your bad habits.
Gretchen Rubin 39:57
I mean, I couldn't. I was like when I heard that Advice cuz you hear it from time to time I was like that is too easy. Like, there's no way that's gonna work. And I'm like, it really, really works. Brushing your teeth, you just feel like there's part of your brain that says like, Okay, well, our work here is done tomorrow. Yeah, it really, really works.
Mike 40:14
I have a couple of owl clients who I think would work for many people. But I have a couple of owl clients that just, I suggested that once and, and she was like, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.
Gretchen Rubin 40:18
But do they start eating very late in the day?
Mike 40:27
Yeah, I mean, one in particular, just just really horrible habit. She tries we every week, it's a whole reset, you know, like I try, but I fell off the wagon again. It's tumbly, when she has an owl type of lifestyle,
Adam 40:41
I have an idea for her maybe. Because, for example, i for i intermittent fast, probably two or three times a week.
Gretchen Rubin 40:50
And what does that mean?
Adam 40:51
It means I go 16 hours, approximately without eating two or three times a week.
Gretchen Rubin 40:56
So from when to when?
Adam 40:57
So that's what I'm about to talk about. Because it can be any 16 hour window for me. Yeah, what were the window is not eating breakfast, and having a late lunch, and then having a dinner, an early dinner. What wouldn't work for me is if I ate breakfast, had a lunch, and then stopped eating until the following breakfast because I can not go at night without eating. Alright. And if you're an owl, probably it's best to really, if you're going to intimate and fast if you're an owl, it's better for her abstain eating during the day and not then she can eat at night that she's staying up late. So maybe she should like maybe do all her good behavior during the day, which might easier for her. And then at night as an owl. When she wants to eat. She's okay because you know, she's supposed to be eating.
Mike 41:43
The problem with this particular client. It's accompanied with a lot of television watching, like watch it, you know, I mean, I'm just saying that if you're busy doing something like writing a book or something like that, I think you're a little bit but it's a little bit
Adam 41:52
but that's very general. It could be
Mike 41:55
I actually we I have discussed the idea as an option for her through all the trials we've gone through. And she's had times of success and times of failure. It's always up and down to have very typical story, actually. But um, yeah, I mean, I think that's an interesting
Adam 42:10
the wheels are turning though, thats the point this book deals with these people.
Mike 42:15
some people. I think it's it's it does you're not you're making not the what you're reading, but when you're reading the the focus, and some people have that rule, if you could focus on that rule, as opposed to, you know, sometimes you could just Okay, I just got to get to whatever it is 12 o'clock tomorrow and then I'll and then I'll concern myself with it.
Gretchen Rubin 42:34
See, I think I would do better eating breakfast and lunch and like, very like, like something in the afternoon. But the problem with just like with life, is it's very hard not to eat dinner, like just one thing or another. You're expected to eat dinner. So it's much easier to skip breakfast.
Adam 42:48
and if you have the habit of eating dinner with your family. And that's important to you.
Gretchen Rubin 42:51
Or if go out with friends. It's just you just, I think it's much more socially challenging,
Adam 42:56
Right, yeah, absolutely. We could go all day talking about all these things in your book, it we only scratched the surface. So I highly recommend the name of the book is better than before. I highly recommend if you're trying to get into an exercise habit and haven't been able to figure it out whether it's high intensity exercise or otherwise, this is a great place to to really start helping yourself, I think
Mike 43:26
Gretchen, when's your new book coming out?
Gretchen Rubin 43:28
So the four tendencies is out in September 2017. And it's all about the four tendencies.
Tim Edwards 43:33
Well, Gretchen like we said at the beginning of the show, when we began this podcast planning it about a year and a half ago, you were one of the first names that came up and so I'm glad I finally took us 28 episodes to get you on. And it's been an absolute delight. We hope that you'll join us again another time.
Gretchen Rubin 43:47
Oh, I'm so happy to be here.
Adam 43:49
We'll have you back on when you come out with it. Yeah, the four tendancies excellent. I would love that.
Tim Edwards 43:53
Boy isn't she fun. Hey, please check out the show notes in whatever platform you might be listening from for a link to Gretchen's website. Gretchenrubin.com. There you can purchase hardback copies of all of her books and listen and subscribe to her wildly popular podcast, happier with Gretchen Rubin. And for those of you who like me love to listen to your books. We have a link to Gretchen's books in audible as well. Okay, so here we are in the final week of our month long contest here in May of 2017. We want to thank all of you who have left inform fitness a review in Yelp, Facebook, Google Plus, Amazon and in iTunes. Each of you will receive a free training session at an inform fitness location nearest you, and all of you are in the drawing for the grand prize which includes a personally autographed copy of Adams book power of 10 the once a week slow motion fitness revolution. You'll also receive in form fitness apparel, in the form of a hat, a t shirt and a hoodie jacket. And we'll top off the grand prize with a device to listen to all of the inform fitness podcasts, Amazon music, audio books from Audible and more using the Alexa voice service with your very own Amazon Echo. If you haven't seen the Amazon Echo, check out a link in the show notes for a full description and videos explaining what it does and how it works. It's very cool. For those of you who have not yet left to review, you're running out of time so you better get on it. Once you do screenshot that review and email it to podcast at informfitness.com to claim your free training session and to qualify for the grand prize. And you can only receive one free training session for your reviews however, you get an entry into the grand prize drawing for each review that you submit. For instance, if you leave us a review in say Yelp, iTunes and Facebook, you still get just one free training session but three entries into the grand prize. Now again, leave a review, screenshot it, email it to podcast at informfitness.com by 11:59pm. Eastern Time on Wednesday, May 31 2017. To claim that free training session and to qualify for the grand prize. The winner is going to be announced in next week's episode right here on the inform fitness podcast. So good luck. Until then for Adam Zickerman, Sheila Melody and Mike Rogers. I'm Tim Edwards with the inbound podcasting Network.
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