We Need you to Solve a Murder. Here's $15

Our first pod where we aren't together in person. Mikki is headed for Jury duty this week, while Cam is trying to get to grips with doing webinars. Cam shows up late to the pod due to some tech issues but comes prepared with a Hazy IPA. Or is it a Hazy?

Show Notes

Our first pod where we aren't together in person. Mikki is headed for Jury duty this week, while Cam is trying to get to grips with doing webinars.

Cam has some tech issues with the Training Tilt platform so is late for the recording but comes armed with a Hazy IPA from Sawmill Brewery. But is it really a Hazy?

We debate why it's important for coaches to own their own content online and not rely too much on social media but instead also own all of your their content through websites, email newsletters and podcasts. All technologies that are open and non propriety. Cam wrote a blog about it here

To learn more about Mikki and Cam and their businesses go to https://mikkiwilliden.com and https://trainingtilt.com

What is On the Line?

Welcome to "On the Line" where hosts Cam Langsford and Mikki Williden bring you insights and discussions about their businesses and the challenges they face, as well as touch on topics related to endurance fitness, health, wellness and craft beer.

Cam is the owner of Training Tilt, a software platform that helps triathlon and endurance coaches improve the performance of their athletes and businesses. Mikki is a nutritionist who helps people achieve their weight loss and confidence goals through online nutrition coaching and meal planning.

Each week, Cam and Mikki get together to chat about their business experiences and share ideas and insights on entrepreneurship and the ups an downs of being your own boss, as well as discuss various aspects of endurance fitness, health, and wellness. They also share their experiences traveling to endurance events and business conferences around the world.

When they're not recording their podcast on the go, Cam and Mikki can be found meeting up at local Auckland craft breweries to record their episodes and sample some great craft beer, which they might even discuss on the show. Tune in to "On the Line" for a fun and casual conversation about business, entrepreneurship, endurance fitness, health, and wellness. Oh and craft beer.

Cam: Today, today we've had to provide
our own have you, have you got a beverage?

Do

you

Mikki: wanna,

Cam: do you wanna hold
the line just one moment?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hold the line.

Hold that line.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Sorry about that.

That's right.

That's okay.

That was I'm back.

That was extremely long.

If you just had to go to the fridge, but
extremely fast if you went to the brewery.

Mikki: Yeah, well I had
to call out to Barry.

Barry, do you wanna have some beer?

? Yeah.

Right.

. So I got him some as well.

Cam: Anyway.

Oh, cool.

So what I, so we're doing our first zoom
podcast first, not in person podcast.

I know you're over Zoom.

Yeah.

Mickey's got a giant microphone and a

Mikki: huge, a giant.

Yeah, it's, it's quite a big,
it's quite a big where is,

Cam: but I, where is it hanging from?

Is it

Mikki: hella?

It is hanging from a
bookshelf above my computer.

Cam: Ah, yeah.

Cuz I can't see the, what do they call it?

The boom arm or whatever it is.

No, you can't.

No, no, no, no.

It's like, I thought so.

So Barry's not holding it,
holding you, holding , holding

Mikki: it over your head.

No, he is not.

It's quite big equipment, but
I do have a big personality.

So

Cam: anyway, you sound,
you sound really good.

Yeah.

So this is our first remote episode.

So I'm in the Hawkes Bay, coming down
to visit Nikki's family because I

won't be coming down for Christmas.

Mm-hmm.

here to do that.

And you're at home?

I'm at home writing my.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Which I need to do.

So you are my, like you are
my shining star for how I want

to be able to produce content.

Amazing.

Always like I'm writing my
blog and then what do you know?

Monday morning the blog comes
out in your, in my inbox.

me.

Actually, actually you're right.

me.

Well, I've got an idea for a.

That awkward silence I hadn't frozen.

Yes, yes.

Mikki: I know.

I wasn't sure and I'm like, no, wait,

Cam: actually, no.

That's just reality of nothing happening.

After I say that, I've got an idea
for a block not to say that I haven't.

Something.

Yes.

Just

Mikki: that in one of my, so I've
got a couple of business groups,

as you know, and you, I'm going
into Strategy Mastermind with

Jill, so it's just a one on one.

But my other business coach, Shante,
I've told you about her Maestro Mafia

Group, which I am also joined for a
year, and it's more of a sort, that

sort of group business support group.

Basically business support group.

And one of the things we had to
do is, is have a word for 2023.

And my word is move.

Not necessarily physically, but just
move on my ideas, move on what I say.

Yep.

Do what I say I'm gonna do.

So, There you go.

Cameron.

Maybe you need to think of something,
which will be, you've got, I'm

good cuz I'm like your little
shining light of Oh, she does this.

Maybe something like that

Cam: could help.

Yeah.

First move is to just schedule,
schedule it, schedule it in and if

I schedule it in, then I will do it.

So that's what I'll do as soon as I
get off the call, I will schedule in

when I'm gonna do it, and then I will.

Yes,

Mikki: actually, because, well, no
more reflection on how I ended up

doing this is that I actually just,
when I got my members starting to

sign up, one of the things I said
to them is, I'll write you a weekly

email every Monday I have for like the

last

Cam: eight years.

Yep.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

And that's not just for
your members, is it?

It's everyone on your email that's.

Everyone

Mikki: on my email list and
then I, and then of course I can

just repurpose it to my blog.

So I call it my blog, but
actually it's probably only a

third of them make it to my blog.

So, but then I've just got content.

I'll be able to put it out there.

Cam: Yep.

Yeah.

Cool, cool, cool.

So that's done anyway.

Today we're not in a brewery, but I.

A beer in front of me and I sent
you off to get one to get yours.

So I've got a saw Mill East Coast ipa.

Mikki: Oh, lovely.

Juicy and tropical that yes.

Just makes me wanna drink.

I feel

Cam: so thirsty.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the tricky thing about
this, this one Yeah.

Is that I ordered it once in a.

The Matakana Hotel actually.

So just around the corner from the
actual, from the actual brewery.

And they, I said, oh,
do you have any hazes?

And they said, yes, they've
got this, there's a hazy.

And then they brought it out and
it doesn't actually say anywhere

on the bottle that it's a hazy.

Does.

It's hazy.

Yeah.

So that bottle, so then I was it.

So it just says Juicy ipa.

So then, I was there by myself.

So then I was like, is this a hazy?

I dunno.

Cause it doesn't say it to hazy.

I mean it's juicy and tropical.

Yeah.

So most hazes are juicy and tropical.

So then I did that in my head for 10
minutes thinking, oh, should I say

something or should, should I just do
what I normally do and just drink it?

And then, and then not worry.

And then what if it's not very nice?

What if it's not hazy?

What else is a lag?

I don't like lags . So then I asked the.

Which is like, yes, it is a hazy.

And then, so I'm only telling this
boring story because, so Frank

brother-in-law knows that I like hazy.

So he, he, he drinks spades, db spades.

The spades man.

Yep.

Yeah.

So he's more of a volume man than a, than
a quality men, but, I only have a couple,

so I like the hazes and by the way.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's not a judgment, just no face.

And so then when I arrived,
when we arrived yesterday, he's

like, oh, I got you some hazes.

And then he brought it out and he
looked at it before he gave it to me.

He's like, oh, sorry, I, I'm
sure I bought you a haze.

I'm sure I bought Hazes.

Doesn't say on there, there's a hazy at.

How crazy maybe is it not a hazy.

But then I went to the fridge just now to
get this one, and on the box it says hazy.

There you go.

Yep.

So that's it.

That's it.

That's it.

Now I'm gonna, might have to listen this
back to see whether I'm gonna edit it out.

That boring, that boring
story or not, or keep it.

Mikki: I wasn't, I didn't, I
didn't find it boring actually.

But then I am a good, I'm a bit
of a storyteller, so I quite

like listening to stories as I

Cam: enjoy telling them.

Yeah, it was quite a good.

Hang.

So I'll tell you.

Just hang on.

Let me taste it.

Yeah, and of course it's in a
brown bottle, so you can't look.

You can't look at it to tell if it's hazy.

Yeah.

No, it's good.

No, it tastes like a hazy.

Mikki: Do you know what
you could do though?

You could pour it into a glass,
then you'd know if it was

Cam: hazy or not.

Yep.

Okay.

You start telling me about yours.

Got my headphones.

Headphones on so I can walk and listen.

Mikki: Okay, that's good.

So I was just in New World College Road,
new World, trying to hunt out E whites.

They're nowhere, nowhere in Auckland.

I've basically created a bit of a,
those eggs, those chickens are slacking.

They are slacking.

And unfortunately all of my Mondays
matter, people now want the egg whites.

So they're the ones that are getting
them all, all over the the new world.

So

Cam: anyway, college road,
your success, your success has

ruined you, ruined your ability.

Egg

Mikki: whites.

So I'm in College Road New World,
and then I remember, hey, these

guys have got a pretty good craft
beer selection and in fact, 350 of.

It's better than a brewery.

It's better than some sort of liquorland.

So I go and get this urban, or,
which I believe we were in urban or

last time that we, was it urban Ort?

We

Cam: were last in Yes.

Yep.

Up, yeah.

Upstairs.

Yep,

Mikki: upstairs.

So I ended up getting, and I
can't remember trying this one,

I ended up getting a delicious.

Triangle, brute double IPA,
featuring Enigma by hpa.

So I feel like it's a
little bit of a CoLab.

Drink.

Fresh.

Stay red.

It's quite high.

7.9% my

Cam: favorite.

Oh, too high for me.

Oh

Mikki: yeah, I know.

I know you're a little bit
of a lightweight, to be fair.

I am, but you know me.

Go hard or go.

But I'm already home,

Cam: so.

Oh,

Mikki: so you doing both
so I can, yeah, I do both.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know.

So that's my idea, and I imagine.

Mm, it's actually delicious.

And do you know what was even more
delicious is that I had a sausage about

20 minutes ago, and so I had that.

So did I.

Feeling of, so did I.

Yeah.

Bloody delicious.

It's so summer.

So summer beer and sausage.

Yum.

Cam: Yum.

Oh, is that brute, that BRT one
that's not like, no, no, no.

Remember in Urban OT and there
was the Miami Oh no, the Miami.

Oh, the brute or something.

And we thought of Miami wine call.

Is that the same one?

Mikki: I don't think so.

Cause it's the, it's a Bermuda Triangle.

And in fact, when we did have
this, cause I remember commenting

on the Bermuda Triangle.

Oh yeah.

Oh, they were Melbourne
to one, to be honest.

Cam: They were all delicious.

Yeah, they were good.

They were good.

We'll have to go back there.

Yeah.

So what should we talk about?

Some updates.

What did we talk about last week?

My webinar.

Summer trip, Sam?

Yes.

Webinars.

So we talked about how webinars my
business coach said do one every day.

Do one every week.

How's it going?

I haven't done one.

I haven't done a second one yet.

I've only done one, and it was six
weeks ago, but I had scheduled it.

What do you mean about.

Oh God.

Yep.

So . Yeah, so I've scheduled it for, for
Wednesday and I sent, I sent, started

sending in LinkedIn, me sending out
link in messages to coaches on LinkedIn.

Yep.

Inviting them to my webinar.

And I sent an email out to my email list.

Y.

Great.

And so there's about there's about
4,000 people on that email list.

Oh, that's awesome, cam.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hope so.

I built, built that up over 14 years.

Oh, not since 2014.

Not 14 years.

So six or seven years
worth of the email list.

And then so I've got about,
probably about 20 people.

Just so the email went out this morning.

So I was quite happy with how quickly
people registered from the email.

Fantastic.

So that's good.

Fantastic.

So it does, it does pay to build
up an email list over time.

Mm-hmm.

, if anyone's, I don't, people, I don't
think people still say this, but I

know when social was starting to get
big, everyone was saying that email

lists are dead and that no one wants
to get an email from you anymore.

That's.

Rubbish, you know that.

And,

Mikki: and in fact, if anything, it's
because of the algorithm changes, the

things that you can't control on social.

The one thing you can
control is your email.

List and speaking to your audience.

Whereas when you put something on Insta,
maybe 10% of your audience will see it.

Maybe, you know, so Yep.

You've actually got a lot more

Cam: control over that email.

Yeah.

Yes.

The, the more saturated social media has
become more, the more people have said

emails dead, just post on social media.

The worse it has gotten, the
better, the better email it's got.

So we should take a
little tangent on this.

Actually.

I'll come back to.

Webinar story that this is the blog that
I'm gonna schedule to write actually

is about owning, owning your audience.

So Nice, especially with the volatility
in social media at the moment.

So, I don't know, you know, if you've
been following what's happening with

the social media platforms, revenues are
down for those that rely on advertis.

For their money.

So Facebook's revenues down, advertising
revenue, looks like they're gonna lay

off a big percentage of their staff.

Twitter's going through a lot of stuff at
the moment with the Elon Musk taking over.

They're making some layoffs,
making some big changes.

So the biggest thing to take out of
that is you never know what's gonna

happen with the audiences on those.

Platforms, you don't
have any control over it.

And you can see the things that have
happened over time with the algorithm

changes, especially when they look
when someone like Facebook launched

their fir, launched their advertising
platform for the first first time.

Yeah.

So engagement and reach just plummeted
for those who weren't paying for

ads because obviously they're gonna
push, there's only so much real

estate to show stuff, so as soon as.

People are paying for ads.

All of that stuff's taking up that
real estate that you had before.

So if you were getting heaps of organic
reach and then as soon as they launch

the advertising platform and you weren't
paying for ads, then you were just,

your reach just, you know, plummeted.

So just an example of you have no real
control over that in your audience,

so you should own your audience
in the best two ways to do that.

Your email list.

Where no one's ever emails
like an open platform.

No one owns email only.

Only email hosting, but the email
itself, you can take anywhere and your

website generating demand, creating
content on your website to get people

into your email list, and no one can
really either take, no one can really

take those two things away from you.

Mm-hmm.

. So, yes, always.

So not to say that you shouldn't be
on social media doing all of the,

doing all of the doings, but remember
to own your audience and then, and

Mikki: podcast as well.

Yes.

Podcast.

Another,

Cam: yeah.

Yeah.

And the thing that is shared across
those three platforms is the technology.

The technology is.

So, no, it's not proprietary.

Podcasts use RSS technology.

Really simple syndication,
is that what it's called?

Could be wrong, but, and then email
uses email protocol and websites.

Use whatever web protocols, HTTP and
https, which is all open, not owned by.

So that's why those three things
are really important, cuz you

can, you can own them and you
can take them wherever you wanna.

Take

Mikki: them.

Can I, I'll add in a couple of opinions
on this as well in terms of your use

on social media and how you engage with
the platforms because a lot of people

you see sort of throw their toys a
little bit with the algorithm changes

and the fact that their audiences
that see things and you often see

people actually throw their toys.

Or they tell off their audience
for not engaging like you.

If you want me to continue to provide this
free content, you're gonna have to like,

and share and save and all the rest of it.

And I just think.

Because there's so much
you can't control in it.

What you can control is your engagement
and your consistency, and you just

have to be consistent with it.

And I know that right now TikTok is
apparently blowing up and a lot of people

have, are moving to TikTok in addition
to say Instagram and, and Facebook

to help engage audiences over there.

And, and I think that's great for people
who have the bandwidth for, yes, another

social media platform, but my strategy.

At this point in time is not to go to
another platform to then engage with that,

because I've still got a lot of stuff I
can do to grow on Instagram, for example.

So I'm not at 160,000 followers.

Also, I don't necessarily think I need
to in order to be successful, but I

think it's just, yeah, show up for the
audience that is there for you and enjoy.

Stuff and just be consistent.

Cam: So thinking about these social
media platforms, You don't wanna

optimize for the metrics that work
for the social media platforms.

So the metrics that work for the social
media platforms are likes and comments.

are good for the social media platforms
cause they keep people on the platform

. I guess what I mean by not optimizing for
likes is, for example, don't just put up a

famous quote and say something like, like
if you agree with this quote, cause you'll

get probably heaps of likes for that.

Especially if it's a good quote
that everyone's gonna agree with

and people like to, See quotes
and go, yeah, I like that.

And then not do anything.

So, and sometimes you can put up a post
that's really impactful when you might

not get that many lights or comments,
because in reality, if you are really

helping someone, it requires them to go
off and do something in the real world.

So sometimes you might not even know
that you've put up a post or a video or

something that's been really helpful to
someone and they've gone off and done

something that's made their life better.

Mm-hmm.

. But they obviously, they're not gonna
then come back and find that post

and then like, like it, and then say,
this changed my life, or whatever.

So sometimes the deeper and more impactful
things that you can share on social media

gets the less engagement cuz it require.

Time and for someone to go off and
actually do something about it.

So yeah.

True.

That's it, that's all.

Nice.

So yeah, back to my webinar.

So email list.

So always have an email list.

Start building one up.

Now slowly if you don't have one,
that would be my advice anyway.

Don't have to.

, My last webinar, I think I ended
up with 50 or something in the end.

So I think I'll probably get
this about the same registered.

Mm-hmm.

. But thing about these is, you know,
I might get 50 registered, but then I

might only get 15 come, which is cool.

I'll be stok if I get 15 people come.

Mikki: And actually from a percentage
perspective, you expect maybe

about 10% of people actually.

Yeah.

Is is the sort of industry standard?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause I had, not a freak out, but with
my webinar that I did before, my latest

program, I had, like, I only, I had
10% of the people who registered to

come, and I'm like, oh, that's actually
a bit down on what I normally see.

But then it was reiterated to me
that actually that's fairly normal,

so just don't worry about it.

So I'm like, okay,

Cam: cool.

Yeah, and you can easily think,
oh, No one likes me or something.

If people don't, if you, if you're
not, if you don't know what those

metrics are, you don't expect to
know, you know, what those things are.

So whenever I, so I've quite often talked
to coaches who, who might be doing some

e-commerce stuff for the first time.

So they're like, oh, you know,
I've got, you know, I've got

500 or a thousand people who
follow me on social or whatever.

And they often think that then
they'll be able to like post their

new product or service or something
and get like, you know, a hundred

people buy their stuff or whatever.

But you might be very lucky to
get like between one and 3% of,

of conversions for an audience.

Yeah.

And that's a really
engaged audience, even.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

So, you know, your audience
needs to be pretty big for

each time you send something.

For them people to, to buy something.

So know you shouldn't freak out if
you only get like a 3% conversion

rate of people actually buying
something and people have seen it.

So yeah, and that number's, that number's
probably going down rather than up as

well, just because the more social media
platforms there are, the more people

who are pushing stuff online, the harder
it is to get your, your fair share.

That audience.

Yeah.

But that just means, you know, you have
to be good and you have to be consistent.

And the longer you've been doing
it, the more advantage you'll have

than trying to break into it now.

Yeah.

Hey so sorry, I I was late to the call,
my bloody SSL certificate, which is, you

know, when you go to a website, there's
a little padlock on the address bar.

So every domain name needs like
a, an SSL certificate, so mm-hmm.

if you're a training tool customer,
you get that for free Plug for

training tool is that, you know,
if you've got a website, then

you get SSL certificate for free.

And I mean I say that, but
most of the hosting platforms

give it for free now as well.

Anyway, so that's what that
little green padlock on your.

And the addressed bar on your website
is, it's your SSL certificate, so

secure socket, flower or something.

I won't go into anything more technical,
but what happens is you buy it then

it either auto renews depending on
what platform you are using, or you

have to go and renew it after a year.

After a year.

So I think a year's the longest
that you can get it to last because.

The shorter it is, the more
likely it is to be secure.

The more often it changes, the less
likely anyone is to, to hack into it.

So it just means everything's encrypted.

So if anyone is putting credit cards into
your website and stuff like that, it's

all encrypted as it goes over the way.

So mine had aired when it was
renewing at lunchtime today.

So I got an email message from
one of my coaches saying, oh, I've

got this funny era on my, you.

Coaching business training app.com
so you get your own domain like that.

And then I was like, oh, what's that?

Yeah.

So I went in, so the auto renewal
had failed for some reason,

so I couldn't get it to work.

So then I had to go and buy another,
a brand new certificate and I'd

paid for five years worth of them.

Mm.

Yeah.

So a new one was like 300 US
dollars or something like that.

So it's a bit of, bit of a pain
cuz I couldn't get the one I'd

already paid for to work and I
couldn't just leave it how it was.

Mikki: So is that one certificate for
one coaching website or is it for a

range for a number of your customers?

Is it all

Cam: of us?

So not you.

Yeah, so it was just my
training tool app.com domain.

So for every coach who has there,
so you've got mickey willin.com.

Mm-hmm.

. So we create an a sep individual
and separate one for you cuz

you've got your own domain.

Yeah, a certificate can't, can, well it
can be shared across all the domains,

but we create one for everyone's domain.

So anyway, that's a bit of a bummer cuz
you don't want anyone going to the coach's

website and getting that era thinking
that it's dangerous or it's been hacked

or something where it hasn't, it hasn't.

It's just the browser warning you
that the certificate has expired

even though it actually still works.

But it does seem scary.

Well, the message is all read
and horrible looking and people

freak out even though there isn't
actually that much danger to it.

You just can't have it.

Can't have that happening.

Yeah.

So just another thing that pops up.

So what's your week looking like now?

You are, Monday's matter
is coming close to an end.

Couple of weeks left.

Does it end just before

Mikki: Christmas?

Couple of weeks?

No.

Got a couple of weeks left, but we'll
sort of, not necessarily on the food

front, but we've got a Christmas advent
calendar going that obviously started

on 1st of December, so that will go
beyond the length of the program,

so we'll just continue to engage.

Then however, small span and the
in the works for probably anyone

in our situation where you.

Face to face clients,
you're self-employed.

I said, of course, as I said to you, I've
been called up for jury service on Monday.

Yes.

And the letter said I could be called in
for two weeks as well if I got on a, if

they chose me for the trial that lasted
two weeks, and I've already deferred

once, and so I can't defer again.

So I had to, I emailed out
all my clients for next week.

Giving them a heads up, I'd already
taken the Monday off, but given

them the heads up that I may need to
reschedule their appointment times.

If I'm chosen for a jury and if
I'm actually chosen for the two

week jury, I mean, hey, who knows?

Someone's gotta do it, right?

And I was very resistant to the idea of
it at all up until about two days ago.

But for the two week jury, I
actually am going to plead, I'm

going to guilty, put my case forward.

. Yeah, be guilty.

I realize that plead is not the right
word actually, when I'm doing that, yeah.

I'm going to put my case forward to the
jury service people that actually it would

be financially very difficult for me to
do this because I have a seminar and a

conference booked in the Hawks Bay for
the week after next, which had been a.

Scheduled for months before I knew that I
would be called up potentially to do it.

So I think that I would
actually get off on that.

But if, for example, I get chosen
for a jury that would last five days,

I've had to reschedule my clients
because, and this is a thing when

you are self-employed, like it's
actually, it's quite a financial hit.

Even for a week to just, cuz one,
not only do you have to, are you

not able to see the clients that
you would've otherwise seen.

You either have to reschedule them
for later or in and around that.

So in fact, your days then extend
well beyond your usual working day.

So you can actually just get a
bit frazzled and, but then also,

Due to go down to Queenstown on
Thursday for the, for a running trip.

And so what I've also done is,
is just re just had to purchase

another flight for Friday later
on, which is fully refundable.

So actually that's a good thing.

I just paid for the fully refundable
flight and if I don't need it,

ID then that's fine, but mm-hmm.

But I've just basically
had to reschedule things.

But actually importantly, I've
now accept I've just thought I,

I'm stop, I'm not resisting it
the way I was like four days ago.

Cuz I think that if I resist it
so much, then it's just calmer.

I will be chosen.

So, so I actually feel better now
that I've got plans in place in

case I need to spend the week out.

But, but I legitimately
couldn't do a two week trial.

Like financially.

It's just, and, and work professionally.

It's, there's no way I can do it.

So I'm hoping that my case could
be could be off because before

that I was even thinking shit.

Could, could I fake Covid?

Actually , no, I can't do that.

I can't do that.

Someone also had, though I've gotten
lots of messages from people saying,

just look as right wing as possible.

And they will, like, they'll beat you.

So I'm going to get Richard Preble's
book outta the library and take it with

Cam: me.

. I was gonna say that if it makes
you feel any better, there's no

way I would put you in my jury

Mikki: No, I'm way too biased.

I

Cam: totally, I just, you just look.

I'm trustworthy,

.
Mikki: I am going to, on Monday,
look, I, I'm gonna wear makeup.

I'm going to put on a dress.

I'm going to have my copy of
the Economist magazine with me.

Yes.

And I'm going to be reading in the room,
and I'm just gonna cross my fingers.

But then, hey, if I'm chosen, then
I'll just enjoy the experience.

Do your

Cam: duty.

Do my duty, your duty.

It's what they call it, jury duty.

I'm surprised there's, I haven't
been called, I was called

once when I was very young.

I must been in my early twenties and
but I think I got out of it somehow.

Did you end up going to, might
have had exams or something?

Might have been, it might
have been an easy out.

Yeah.

Mikki: Do you know, I'd be, I'd be totally
fine to do it if, for example, I was

employed and, and I could get covered from
my employer for the loss of work time.

But the re I saw this this
meme and I'll read it to you.

We could put it even in the show
notes, but it did make me laugh.

It was by this guy
called so native and it.

Jury duty is a wild concept.

Whenever the government wants, they
can just be like, cool off work bestie.

We need you to solve a murder.

Here's

Cam: $15 . Oh, that's classic.

Mikki: It is classic.

And so true.

It is so true because you get like $31.

Yeah, that's funny.

It isn't about the money, but actually
when you are losing several thousand

dollars, it is about the money.

Cam: It is.

Yeah.

And I guess that's cause.

Well, you know, if you're, if you're
employed in a business, you know,

a small, medium, large business or
whatever, all of that stuff's built into

the way they pay out their salaries.

You know, just like they, yeah.

Build in the holidays
and all of that stuff.

So it's important when you go into
business yourself, you need to start

to try and create that margin in
your own business where it's like,

oh, yep, I need to earn enough.

Some, you know, that sometimes
things are gonna happen and you're

not gonna be able to work and you're
not gonna get the revenue that

you thought you were gonna get.

And my business isn't, it's not as
obvious for me because most of my

revenue is recurring anyway, but
every week I take off means I haven't

worked on growing the business.

Whatever my revenue will,
you know, three months.

So I think it's like, it feels to me
after doing this for a while, when you're

doing like a subscription based business,
that whatever you do, sales and marketing

now, you'll only see the effects of it
like in 90 days or something like that.

You know, just sales,
sales cycles and stuff.

So yeah, so whatever, if
take a week off now it's a.

Less of impact you would've made on
the bottom line 90 days from now.

So it's not as obvious,
but it's definitely there.

Mikki: So it's a bit like not
saving for your pension actually.

Cam: Yeah.

Yeah.

It doesn't feel like it's important.

Doesn't feel likes that, that it
makes that much of a difference.

But

Mikki: no, it does.

I, I need to within the special leave
concept, and the reality is, it's

actually, it's less about the money
and more about the bummer that I'm.

I may not be able to go
to Queensland on Thursday.

That is the thing that
I'm most bummed about.

Yeah.

Because in fact, when I sent the email out
to my clients and I, I just went, right,

I'm just gonna have to do some long days.

No worry.

And you know, cam, I'm good at getting
up early and I can, you know, push

on through in the evening time and,
and ev and I've got eight of 13

people who've already come back to
say, oh, well, we'll just reschedule

to New Year, which actually is fine.

and or yep, I can do this hour
or this hour and I'm in fact

seeing someone tomorrow as well.

So we can make it work, but
it's, it's that for whatever

reason I was very resistant and
it was all I could think about.

And now that I've got these things
in place, I just feel so, like, I

just feel so much more, I'm like,
actually it's not the end of the world.

It's not stopping me from
doing anything in particular.

So just

Cam: deal.

Yeah.

Well, good luck with.

Thanks, Ken.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what

Mikki: else?

What else?

It's the district court, not
the high court anyway, think,

Cam: right?

So what else is happening
on the business front?

So things tend to wind down a bit,
I guess, say, coming into Christmas.

So you, what are your bookings?

You like your one on one bookings?

Wind down a bit.

People, people going, I know.

Cause they need someone to talk to.

Cause they've just been to seven
Christmas parties in three weeks.

. Exactly.

That is exactly right.

Need to figure out how to manage that.

Mikki: Do you know what it is?

It's and in fact, so we've got
our Monday's matter sh area

edition coming out in February.

So , so.

Because we are spending, you know a bit
of time over Christmas away, and I don't

want Barry to spend, eat another holiday,
having to do the Mondays matter workbook.

We are making a push to have all of
that done by the end of, by Christmas.

And then of course, in my
business, in fact, the, the.

Down period.

And I wonder if it's a lot, I
think it's the same for a lot of

people in my industry is that March
actually tends to be fairly quiet.

And then almost every March and April
I'm like, where have all my clients gone?

And then that ramps up again.

But this time of year is actually,
people are trying to get in for a

consult prior to Christmas, and then
my post Christmas consults center.

Which I'm thankful.

Cool.

Cam: It's lovely.

Yeah.

Yeah, so, so it's quite funny, I've had
years, cuz I've been doing this for a few

years now, like over Christmas, where I've
had lots of new customers come on board.

I think it might have something to
do with how a lot of coaches are

part-time, so they might be taking,
you know, they might be off work.

So they're taking the time to get a bit
more set up with like a coaching platform.

Maybe to move into the new year being a
little bit more organized or whatever.

And if, if they're working
full time, they don't have time

to do that during the year.

So I'm hoping that maybe that will happen.

So but a fun, strangely, November
was quite a, a month of quite a lot

of tune for me, so I lost quite a.

Customers for some reason.

Not sure why yet, which is in which
another thing I'm working on, which

is part of the frame, one of the
frameworks in my coaching group is

the cancellation flow framework.

Yep.

Where if someone goes in and cancels, you
just take them through this framework.

You just get them to answer
a few questions on their, on

their way out, like an exit.

So you can find out the
reasons of why they canceled.

So if it is anything, it's not, you
know, some, there's lots, there's

a million different reasons why
someone might end up canceling.

But if there is something that's under
our control, then hopefully that'll

pick that up so you can change it.

You know, cuz these things often
go, if no one tells you about

these things, you may never.

So, well,

Mikki: I got an interesting
email this week from someone.

Let's just call her Amanda, who responded.

Cam: We call her Karen.

We call her Karen.

Mikki: Karen, yeah.

I have a couple of good
friends called Karen

Cam: though.

Oh, no.

Let's, okay, let's go with Amanda.

Mikki: Yeah.

Okay.

And and I sent her, you know, did the
global Black Friday sales email and then

she emailed me back and said, clearly
you're always about the money, aren't you?

Cause I signed up to a program
and I couldn't even log in.

And you never helped.

You didn't notice, and
you're not very helpful.

And I'm, I'm telling my friends,
I'm never recommending you.

And had that been me five years
ago, getting an email, I would've.

Mortified and ruminating over it for days.

And actually Cam, I looked
at it and I almost laughed.

I just thought, yeah,
that is not me at all.

So I emailed her back and said, how?

And I said, Hey, Manda, this is
really unusual because we have a

number of things in place that.

Try and catch people who don't log
in so we can communicate and, and

make sure that you've got everything
that you need if you're struggling.

And I said, you know, did
you create an account?

Because that's how No.

Yep.

Did you join the Facebook group?

Cuz that's how we would know.

She was part of September,
Monday's matter.

September.

And, and did you try to contact me?

So I was aware of this?

Never heard a thing.

Mm.

Which, but literally, like I just, I
just thought that was the most, the

weirdest email and hey, some, sometimes
people can't get out of their own way,

and I don't think that person is me.

Cam: No.

No, exactly.

And you, you need to capture
those things when you can to

fix the things that are broken.

But you know, you
can't . Go for the lowest.

I'm not trying to judge Amanda here,
but you know, you can't build things out

for the lowest common denominator, and
to build in every single little thing

that could go wrong to to make sure that
everyone is like a hundred percent happy.

So all you can do is iterate.

And we, you and I have been
doing this for, for years now.

Like iterate things slow.

As things come up that it, that
people report back, which is great

actually when people report back
and say It was difficult or I

couldn't figure this out or whatever.

And then we totally probably change
dozens and dozens of things in the

sign up process and in the flow
and it's never gonna be perfect.

And as we build more things into the
platform and you add more stuff as well,

like new things will come up all the time.

So it's good that you
get feedback, but so.

Yeah, sometimes other people have
other things going on that makes

it sound like it, like it's worse
than it really is, you know?

So she might have gotten to a point where
either she wasn't sure what the next step

was, or there could have been an error
or something didn't happen and, you know,

just wasn't the right time for her or
whatever, and things didn't work out.

And then she got your email and
was still annoyed about that.

But it's when people get really
annoyed like that over such a.

Thing that could easily
have been rectified if you'd

just followed up earlier.

I guess it's, you know, people are
struggling with other things in their

lives that make them lash out sometimes.

And the worst thing you do in business is
take those things personally regardless

of how valid, valid their concerns are.

Mikki: Absolutely.

And I was pleased with my.

My genuine response to it is
that I knew immediately that

I'm not just out for the money.

You know, like, you know, I did not
question my value system at all.

And, and I felt sorry that she
didn't actually let me know earlier.

Cause she had purchased a program in
September and it is December now that

she didn't let me know earlier because
there was much that we could have done

to help her overcome those obstacles.

So, and equally there were a
number of steps like probably.

That she may have come across in
her journey with us that would've

possibly overcome that obstacle.

But some you just have to want it as well.

Yeah.

So it wasn't just, yeah.

So I think that's another thing as well.

When people say things like, the customer
is always right, that's not true.

The customer's not always right.

Cam: No, no, no.

That's true.

Yeah.

Right.

Cool.

On that cam?

Yeah.

What's up for the rest?

Yep.

What's up for the rest of the was gonna
say Sunday, but it's not Saturday.

So I,

Mikki: Barry is going to see
Big Thief, which is a band

I'm not interested in seeing.

So

Cam: I am Oh, Barry only loves bands
and no one else has ever heard of

.
Mikki: Yeah.

Yes.

And do you know who he shares that with?

Cam: A couple of music snobs.

They should go out for a
beer and talk about hell.

Everyone else's taste music is.

Mikki: Well, that's in fact what
they're doing at seven o'clock

before they go to their concert.

Oh,

Cam: cool.

Yeah,

Mikki: yeah, I know exactly.

So so I will be finishing up my email
blog and it's a really good one actually.

You know, I'm finding lots of really good
research, but it's also really practical

and I'm also taking my blog and doing
an Instagram live on that tomorrow.

So I'm just prepping for that as well.

And we'll also have dinner and
might watch something on Netflix.

Also did another sub 20 at the park

Cam: run.

Oh yes.

Excellent.

So I'll need to get into the pub,
the park runs and do a sub 20 myself.

I think that should be a good goal for me.

I think so,

Mikki: Ken.

Right just to, just because it's such
a, it's not a, if I say low hanging

fruit, I don't mean, I don't mean that.

Oh, it's so easy.

Anyone can do it.

But what I mean is that it's a very
low barrier to entry and you will only

improve if you do it regardless of
how soon it takes you to do sub 20.

You know, it might take you four
weeks, it, am I taking four months?

But ultimately you'll be
improving along the way, which

is always such a good feeling.

Cam: Yeah, yeah.

And it's good for a short race like
that cuz you can have short cycles of.

Feed or feedback, you know, do one and you
don't have, you know, you don't do have

to do another three months of training and
then two weeks of recovery or something

to figure out what to do next, so.

Exactly.

All right.

Well I'm gonna go and see what the
finals doing or afternoon drinks

probably, and then a nice dinner.

Sounds great.

Mikki: All right.

You

Cam: doing with the bay?

Yeah.

And good luck for jury duty.

I will keep you informed.

All right.

All right, catch you.

See ya.

Bye.