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We're diving deep into how to save money in flight training, which is no small feat! In this episode, Jason Miller joins us to share valuable insights on managing the financial burden of becoming a pilot, especially for those of us who are navigating tight budgets. We talk about practical strategies that cater to both novice student pilots and those looking to transition into professional flying, emphasizing the need for a solid foundation in those early hours of training. From leveraging dry time effectively to understanding the importance of consistent practice, we cover how to make every dollar count while ensuring you build the skills necessary for success in the cockpit. So, whether you're dreaming of taking to the skies or already in the air, we've got tips to help keep your training costs in check and your flying aspirations alive!
Takeaways:
Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
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My name is Jason Miller.
I'm a career flight instructor.
I've been teaching flying in
California since 2002.
I specialize in mountain
training, technically advanced aircraft
and instrument flying and my
philosophies for training have have
grown over the last couple
decades and have been released in
a series of YouTube videos and
podcasts and ultimately Culmin in
our Ground School app, which
is a proficiency and training app
for pilots of all levels.
AV Nation, what is going on?
And welcome back to the Pilot
to Pilot podcast.
My name is Justin Seems and I
am your host.
In today's episode we have
Jason Miller on from Learn the Finer
Points in the Ground School app.
Now, as you know, they're a
sponsor of the episode, they're a
sponsor of the podcast.
I'm a big, big believer in
Jason and his mission of what he's
doing in aviation and teaching pilots.
The first thing he says when
he introduces himself is I'm a career
flight instructor and you feel
you talk to him, you can tell that
he loves it, that he has a
passion for it, passion for teaching
and I highly recommend
checking out the Ground School app.
It is something that I wish I
had when I was in my training and
I think it is very, very
valuable for you as well.
So please check it out.
It's just a wealth of
information and so much knowledge
in there.
But in this episode directly
we are talking about how to save
money.
We talk about someone who is
maybe a businessman and has a ton
of Money and how they can go
about their training.
And then we also pivot to,
you're a student pilot, money's tight.
You want private.
We give you a couple tips on
what you can do and how you can expect
what your training is going to
be like and how you can save money
as well.
Because as we know, it is very expensive.
There's.
There's no ifs, ands or buts
about it.
Flying is going to be expensive.
It's a major hurdle to getting
in aviation.
It's just the overall expense,
but you can do it.
Other people have done it as well.
So there are a couple tips for
you in there as well.
Aviation.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you do, please leave us a
review on Spotify.
We just passed 1,000 reviews,
which is crazy.
We're trying to get 1,000
reviews on Apple podcasts.
So go there as well and leave
a review.
Last time I checked, I think
we're at like 9:30.
So we're close.
We're very, very close.
I appreciate you all listening
to that effect.
We do have something coming
out Cool.
Later this year, so if you
sign up for the email list, that'd
be great.
It's on the website Pilot the
Pilot hq dot com.
I'll make sure that it's there
and I'll send it out either on Instagram
or I'll just make it more
available on the website.
But something is coming that I
think is gonna be pretty cool and
we're putting a lot of work in.
Shout out to Nick, the video editor.
Shout out to Nick.
You're the man putting him to work.
But we're making something
pretty cool and I think it's gonna
be a lot of fun.
So, Avia Nation, I hope you're
having a great day.
Without any further ado,
here's Jason and how to save money
in your flight training.
Jason, what's up, dude?
Welcome back to the podcast.
Thanks, Justin.
I'm happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to have you here
as well.
I. I need to go back and start
counting, but I'm pretty sure you
are the most returning guest.
You've probably been on here
more than anyone else, so I don't
know if that's a good thing or
a bad thing for you, but y. Yeah,
well.
That'S a, that's a great honor.
Yeah, I think it's three or
four times now.
Yeah.
Well, cool, man.
Well, today, you know, we've,
we've had the series which we actually
haven't finished yet.
I believe we stopped at
commercial, so we need to continue
that series that we did, but
this one is going to be more specific
and how to save money in flying.
I think it's a very, very hot
topic, right?
Like, I mean, you see people
taking out tons of money for loans.
You see some people on
Instagram be like, hey, I only spent
20 grand on all my training
and this is how I did it, or I didn't
have any loans.
So there's.
There's really kind of like a
huge spread of people either side.
Either they spent a ton of
money or didn't spend much money
at all, were able to pay it off.
So I think it's a very hot
topic, you know, how to set.
How to save money.
Because it is very expensive
to become a pilot.
And probably the number one
reason why people don't do it, because
it's such a burden on people.
And especially with what it
looks like right now, where a lot
of people aren't getting hired
for regionals or aren't getting.
There's not as much moving as
there was a couple of years ago.
So I think it's a very good
time to touch on this.
So I don't know if it's gonna
be five tips, 10 tips, 100 tips,
or three, but we're gonna have
a little solid conversation on save
money while training.
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
That's great.
You know, and I think straight
away, there's kind of like two different,
I don't know, types of people,
or two people with sort of two different
goals or agendas, right?
Like, there's the people that
you mentioned that come into flight
training with the idea that
they need to get their certificates
and ratings, and then they
want to get hired, right?
So it's like, how fast can I
get all of that stuff done and start
to earn money as a pilot?
Maybe that's like one group of
people, and then there's another
group of people that are just
successful in business, or they've
come to a time in their life
where they want to become pilots
and they maybe want to buy an
aircraft and enjoy the world of aviation.
And maybe that's a second group.
And I think it's slightly
different for each one, which is
why I think we should probably
make that distinction.
Yeah, for sure.
Because, I mean, you do have
the businessman that's like, hey,
money's not really an issue.
I want to be the best pilot I
can possibly be.
Here's a blank check, essentially.
But I think focusing on this
will probably focus on kind of like
the younger student that
really wants to make this a career
or just has.
He doesn't have the
opportunity to have the funds necessarily
available and has to go into
loans or has to go into cost saving.
And you know, they're eating
beans every single night so they
can afford one more hour of
172 or 152time.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's, and we can talk
about strategies for, for that group
of people, for sure.
And there's some, There'
there, there is a lot that they can
do.
But one thing I would say, let
me just say this for the, for the,
maybe the other group.
And it's not so much that they
can write a blank check, but it's.
It.
I think the main difference is
in, in one group, you, at a certain
point you're going to turn
around and flying will start paying
you.
Right?
And that's so like eating
beans and getting all your certificates
and ratings and doing whatever
you have to do to get that job.
You know that there's this day
where the flow is going to reverse.
There will come a day where
all of a sudden all, and all this
effort I put into flying, the
career will start paying me.
And that's maybe just
different from like a, a pilot that's
doing it on the side, whether
they're super wealthy or not.
That second group that's just
doing it not as a career, but doing
it because they love it,
should really think about it as a
monthly expense.
Right.
Like that, like flying is not
something that you, you know, you
learn to do and then you stop
spending money on.
Unless, of course, it's going
to pay you, which we'll talk about
in a moment.
But if, if you're somebody
that just is trying to get a pilot
certificate because you want
to enjoy this world of aviation,
I really think you should
disconnect yourself from the overall
expense.
All of us have to keep flying
for instrument currency, for passenger
currency, for just, you know,
keeping our, our skills sharp.
And that'll, that will never
really end.
So I, you know, I think that
for people that are going to not
get paid, it's important that
they just start thinking about it.
On how much per month do I
want to invest in flying?
And, and, and what's a number
that I can sustain sort of indefinitely?
Yeah, yeah.
My, one of my neighbors when I
was growing up, he became a pilot.
I don't know how much money
they had, but they were able to afford
lessons and start flying right
around the same time I was doing
my training And I think for
him it was a monthly expense.
And then eventually life gets busy.
He goes back out to fly and
scares myself in the play.
And it's like, all right, I'm done.
So keeping up and thinking of
it as monthly and making sure you
are doing a couple hours every
single month will help you maintain
this as a full hobby
throughout your role.
Prolong it way longer than
taking a month or two off, because
there will come a time where
you're not going to be as proficient.
You're going to be like, oh,
I'm a private pilot.
I can go take this.
172.
I've done it before.
But three months later, you're
like, oh, crap, this feels weird.
And you're behind the airplane
and you just scare yourself and you
take the time off.
So try not to do that.
Yeah, 100.
I see that all the time.
That's incredibly common.
Yeah.
Because the.
You know, the thing that makes
you anxious up there is when your
skills starts to decay.
And unfortunately, like you
said, you generally find that out
on a flight where you're
thinking to yourself, I'm not ready
for this, or I scare myself or whatever.
You know, I don't feel prepared.
So, yeah, the antidote to that
is consistent flying or even consistent
training.
But really, you know, like,
what they would.
What you do in the
professional world at the airlines
or really at any professional
job where you're going back every
six months for recurrent
training, like, there's a.
There's a rhythm to it.
And I think for.
That's good for anybody,
whether you're a professional pilot
or not.
You should really think about
it that way.
So it's not like.
It's not like you achieve this
goal and then all of a sudden the
expenses are gone.
Right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
Yeah.
But, yeah, recurrent.
Six months, 12 months,
depending on your flying.
121, 135.
But yeah, it.
It's always good to go back
and do the training, you know, to.
To get refreshers, because you
might be a little bit slower when
you.
When you haven't done it in a year.
And it's good to just have it
on your mind.
And just a lot of things I
like about recurrent is they kind
of tell you what's happening
on the line, like, hey, we've seen
a lot of this, or we've seen a
lot of this, so make sure you paint.
This is a hot topic right now.
So pay attention to that.
And it helps keep your brain
fresh and just thinking about things.
Because you know, as pilots,
you, you think sometimes you fly
and you're just like, I've
done this before.
But every flight's different.
And it's really important to
take every flight as their own and,
and make sure you're not just.
Just being complacent up there.
Yeah, it's true.
I mean, it's like having that
community reflection is.
Is really important.
You can get into a little silo
by yourself, you know, like in your
own little world if you don't
have that feedback.
Yeah.
Even just, you know, I do this
thing called office hours where every
Friday I just meet with a
group of pilots, attend.
We, we have new people coming
in all the time, but it's like a.
It's.
It's turned into this group
that just gets together every Friday
and, and it's really great,
you know, like just hearing what's
happening for other people out
there, problems people are dealing
with, just that sort of
community support and awareness of
what.
What other people are
experiencing is.
That's awesome.
So now kind of transitioning
to what we're the second part of
the group.
Right.
So let's talk about like
student pilots, private pilots, getting
that private pilot license.
I know when I was training, I
think a private pilot license was
anywhere from like six to $8,000.
Do you know, is that pretty
much what it is now?
Or has it gone up with inflation?
Is it.
Is it pretty crazy?
Man, that sounds really low.
Yeah.
For.
From where I'm sitting.
But let's just, let's just say
it's a. I mean, it's.
I mean.
And I don't.
This number might sound shocking.
And keeping in mind, I'm in
the Bay Area, in San Francisco, and
here in any part of
California, really, the numbers will
be skewed a little bit, but
I'm seeing people spend more like
20 or 25,000 for the private.
Wow.
Geez.
Now let's just say any.
That.
Let's just call it a range.
Okay.
Let's just say anywhere from.
It's hard to get it with less than.
For less than 8, but let's
just say it's 8 to 25,000.
I think the main thing is the
strategies that people can use.
And I guess there's two things
that are really present on my mind.
And one of the things that I
finished recently was a private pilot
syllabus.
And it's.
It's funny, the finer points
hadn't generated a private pilot
syllabus until about a.
And it's contained now.
If you get our Ground school app.
Anybody can just go to the
Resources tab and check out the syllabus.
But there were two, well,
there was, let's say, three things
that I think are unique about
our syllabus that I didn't see in
other syllabi.
And maybe these are good, good
points to talk about because I think
they're directly related to
saving money.
And one thing is the concept
of dry time.
And I know we talk about couch
flying, we talk about dry time, we
talk about this in kind of a
vague way like your CFI will tell
you, oh, you know, you should
really do some couch flying before
you go out.
One of the things that we did
in the syllabus and one of the things
I really believe in as a money
saving practice is for every single
lesson there's like a dry time assignment.
So before you go to lesson
two, you have to complete all of
the assignments for lesson one.
And some of that is actually
sitting down in a little procedural
trainer where you're not
spending any money at all.
There's no cfi, you're not
paying a CFI hourly, you're not paying
for the Hobbs time.
But what you're doing is going
through all those procedures and
all of the things that will
get you, you know, like, like in
the run up area, for example,
like if you're in an airplane in
the run up area, you're paying
your cfi, you're paying the Hobbs
time.
And if that's the first time
that you've looked at the run up
checklist and tried to find
all the switches and all the, the,
you know, everything that you
have to do in the run up, that's
the wrong time to be doing it.
I mean, you're spending, you
know, potentially three, $400 an
hour sitting there trying to
learn this stuff.
So there's, there's no reason
you can't.
And, and students really
should do that in a procedural trainer
if it's just a picture of the
cockpit or even sitting in the aircraft
without the engine running.
But all that stuff should be
like, you know, should really be
well rehearsed.
It should be comfortable and
familiar before you ever go to the
airplane.
And you know, a lot of what I
end up saying in the world about
flying is really emulating
what works for professionals.
Because if we just, if we sort
of back the camera off.
The pros have been at this for
a long time.
The companies have survived
many decades of accidents and transformations.
So a lot of what professional
pilots and professional pilot organizations
do is really the right way to
do it.
And, and if the path, if the
road is paved, like let's just follow
it, you know, let's not.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it's working for them, it
should work for us, you know, so,
so this is, as you know, this
is how the airlines and the military
and, and all of those higher
level flying organizations deal with
this.
Right.
You go to a procedural trainer
before you go to the sim, and you
go to a sim before you go to a plane.
Yeah.
Because they want to save
money, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
That's my point.
Right.
They've got it all dialed in,
so we really just have to copy it.
So.
Yeah.
Was like for, for every single
lesson in our syllabus, there's a
specific dry time assignment
that has to be completed before the
next lesson and that's
designed to just really save money
just to trim off that slop,
you know, that sitting in the run
up area looking for a switch,
you know, where's the, where's that
switch again?
Yeah, that's valuable time and
adds up, right?
Every point matter.
Every point.
One matters.
Absolutely.
A hundred percent.
And going back to dry time, I
mean, even when I was doing my 121
training a couple years ago,
before the initial check ride and
in my initial was, you know,
standing in my hotel room and I was
like, all right, v1 cut and
I'd like walk and then I turn left.
Like what do I call here, what
I call 400ft?
What do I call?
What's my speeds in here?
And I would do that.
So then I felt comfortable
enough in my first lesson that I
didn't waste anyone's time.
Because when it comes to 121
training, you know, you're on such
a time crunch, it's like, you
have to do this, you have to fit
all this into this lesson.
And if you don't, you start
getting behind and it's really hard
to catch up.
And if you take that mentality
into what you're talking about with,
with student pilot or private
pilot training or any kind of training,
it's going to help you save
money in the long run.
Run.
Yeah.
100.
And exactly how you described it.
Right.
That's what you do when you're
training to be a professional pilot.
I'm sure a lot of us have seen
the Blue Angels on YouTube, you know,
when they sit in the
conference room and all of them with
their eyes closed, rehearsing
every little move and every little
call out that they're going to
hear on the radio, like, that's the
highest level of precision.
If they can't do it in a
conference room, I'm pretty darn
sure they can't do it in an F16.
And the same thing translates to.
To any pilot training.
Right.
If you can't, you know, like
with engine failures, for example,
right.
We go through A, B, C, D, and
E. Right.
Airspeed, best field, check
systems, declare the emergency.
If you can't, quickly tell me
what systems you're going to check
when we're sitting here at my desk.
What makes you think you're
going to be able to do that?
When we're gliding toward, you
know, a field.
Yeah.
You know, and then there's
terrain all around and there's wires
and all these things you're
thinking about.
So.
So I think that just, again,
emulating the way it works for the
highest achievers is.
Should be trying to do.
And.
And I think it's going to feel
weird at first, right?
It's not going to feel natural
sitting in a chair, be like, all
right, well, Gumps, you know,
you're just like, okay, cool, did
it.
But really, just like,
honestly, just close your eyes like
the Blue Angels and just
imagine you're in the airplane and
try to imagine the switches.
And the cool thing with technology.
I'm sure there's going to come
a time where you can put on a VR
headset and you can put
yourself in a 172, you know, put
up flight simulator, hook it
up to VR headset, look around and
you're in the plane.
You're kind of there if that's
your cup of tea, you know, if that's
the way you want to do it.
And in my mind, it doesn't
like, that's an option in today's
world, if you want to get, you
know, fancy VR headset and put yourself
in a virtual 172.
If you want to go to your
flight school and just ask to go
sit in the airplane.
Right?
There's no.
Usually flight schools, flying
clubs, they don't mind if the plane's
not being used.
Just go sit in it.
We all know.
So a lot of times planes are
maintenance, and so you can sit in
there while they're getting
worked on.
Right.
Or, you know, even just a
picture of, you know, of the panel.
But I think the main thing is,
is to really bring the attention
to bear, like you said.
And so you don't just sit
there and be like, okay, Gumps, I
did it once.
I know it.
You know, it's, you know, go
through all of the normal procedures
and then go back through all
the, the emergency procedures.
And this is where I found,
when we were writing the syllabus,
that there really are, for
every lesson, very specific things
you can practice and you can
build on it.
It can become kind of a cumulative.
It's too much to do in one or
two or three little sessions, you
know?
Yep, absolutely.
What do you got next?
For.
For.
But you said there's three
steps kind of.
What's the second one?
Yeah, well, yeah, three or
four different things that sort of
pop to my mind.
Another one is.
And this one's a little bit counterintuitive.
I've got two kids, and so over
the last, you know, 15 years, I've
been a father, we've been
raising children.
And one of the things that has
sort of presented itself in my life
is this Waldorf education.
Have you ever heard of it?
No.
It's like an alternative
education concept that's pretty fascinating.
And there's a reason I'm going
to tell you this, because it relates
to flight training.
But traditional education is
kind of a linear path, right?
They basically say if you
start at zero and by 18, you have
to graduate college.
We're going to just break up
every little thing you have to know
into even parts and we're
going to start teaching you kindergarten.
You learn this.
First grade, you learn that,
second grade, you learn this.
And it's just a little bit
more every year until you get 18.
In the Waldorf education, it's
a little different.
It's a curved path, okay?
So they start out slower in
the beginning.
They don't, for example,
introduce reading as early as a traditional
education, might they.
They invest in socialization
skills or the ability for the child
to concentrate, or, you know,
they kind of set the context for
learning.
And their theory is that if
you create a good context for learning,
you create the appetite for
learning, then everything accelerates.
And it's got kind of a hockey
stick shape to it, and it's been
proven quite effective.
Like here in our local town,
the Waldorf school has the top 8th
grade testing scores of any
school in the district.
Right?
So.
So the proof's in the pudding, right?
Like they, they, they take
them slow in the beginning, but those
are the highest performing
kids on tests here locally.
Our syllabus, when I was
writing it, is, is very similar.
Like, I really believe, and I
want people to hear this, if you
invest in your early flying
skills, if you take the time to really
learn how to Fly the plane in
the first 25 hours, really understand
where should I be looking?
What does the rudder truly do?
How does the rudder change as
I add power?
How does it change as I slow down?
You know, that stuff, if you
invest in that very, very early on
will make everything
downstream go faster and it will
have that similar sort of
hockey shape shape, hockey stick
shape, you know, to the, to
the, to the, to the goal that the
Waldorf education has.
And so you know, you don't
often find, when you look at a syllabus,
a flight training syllabus,
you don't often find lessons, for
example, where you might go
out and just fly with your feet the
whole lesson we're not going
to touch the yoke.
We're just going to fly with
our feet or go out on a lesson with
the flight instruments covered
and you're just drawing on the window
and it's like, you know,
mostly in flight training we say
things like, well, you have to
know steep turns.
So today we're just going to,
to, we're going to go work on Steve
turns.
And I'm a believer that if
you, if you really slow the beginning
down and invest in that
foundation so that you, you know,
pilots can see the sight
picture in turns, they know when
the pitch is changing in
turns, they know when the bank is
changing in turns.
All of that investment early
on will make everything super easy
and super fast.
You know, if you can do
minimum controllable airspeed with
your instruments covered, then
the maneuver slow flight is a no
brainer dinner.
You know.
So I, so two experiences of me
with that I did most, I did my private
out of high state 141, you
know, fast paced.
We do this now, we do this
now, we do that.
Like it was just fast paced
and I thought I liked it at times.
It's all I knew.
But then I moved back to
Charlotte and I went to my local
flight school and I flew with
this really, I don't want to say
really old but he, he's an
older Texas, you know, flight instructor
and my goodness gracious, we
got in the plane for the first time.
I was like, boy, he's like, so
I don't touch the, like don't touch
the ailerons.
We're flying with our feet today.
And I mean, yeah, I wish I had
that in the beginning because it
opened up my knowledge to just
so much more about how and why and
it really helped me feel the
airplane right.
Like it helped me feel the
controls anticipating and really
understanding what it feels like.
They always say, like, feel
your butt when you're in a turn to
make sure you're coordinated,
but they just tell you that they
don't like, show you or tell
you how to feel it or what you're
supposed to be feeling.
And he really, really kind of
opened up my, my brain to kind of
understanding why we're doing
this and why we have to learn this,
you know, rather than just be
like, all right, this is on the checkride.
Steep turns.
All right, proficiency check,
you know.
Now it helps you in the
clouds, you know, it helps you in
everything if you can really
understand what's going to happen
when you do what.
Yeah, 100%.
That is absolutely true.
And it's just, it, you know,
it might be hard to believe that
if you're, if you're a student
coming in and you don't have a lot
of money to spend, you know,
and you're, and you're concerned
about money, it's like, you
know, you might be thinking to yourself,
if this is a linear path, I
can't take that long in the beginning
to, to work on those basic skills.
But what I'm telling you from
decades in the right seat is that
if you take the time to build
those skills the way you're talking
about those, like, lessons
like you had with that guy in Texas,
everything else is easy like
that, you know, like that is what
we're trying to accomplish.
You can look at any one of the
flight maneuvers on the private ACs,
and we're essentially trying
to test for a handful of things,
you know.
You know, are you aware of
the, the rudder really?
I mean, like, you think of all
the areas in the acs, you look at
the maneuvers you have to do.
Slow flight.
What are we looking for in
slow flight?
Pretty much to make sure that
you can manage the left turning tendencies
when we're at a slow speed and
that you can understand the pitch
power relationship as you get
to the slow end of the envelope in
power off stall recoveries,
when, you know, making sure that
you manage the rudder when the
power comes in, the go around, manage
the rudder when the power
comes in, you know, so it's really
like a lot about the rudder
and it's a lot about managing speed
and angle of attack.
You know, there's these basic concepts.
And so if you don't really
understand that stuff, you can learn,
learn maneuvers rote, you
know, for years without ever really
getting to the bottom of why
you're doing it or what skills are
involved.
Absolutely.
And what do you think the
importance is of making sure your
first instructor.
Instructor teaches you that
because, I mean, it is the law of
promise.
You right.
Like, I can't even tell you
how much I go back to my initial
training in private now.
I had a ton of instructors
because the 141 school, they kind
of just pair you with a new
instructor every single quarter.
But I really do.
My very first instructor, who
thankfully was a good instructor,
was the one that I kind of
like lean back to now, and if I have
an emergency, like, you know,
I kind of.
I go back to what I was first
trained on and how to handle em.
Emergencies, which is just
crazy to think about.
Yeah, yeah, everybody does.
Yeah.
I think it's.
You know, this is a tough one
to answer because I, I happen to
be someone who I loved my
first flight instructor, but she
was young and inexperienced, a
really cool person.
Nothing.
I'm not knocking her at all.
She did the best job she
could, but she didn't know what she
didn't know.
And it wasn't until I met my
instrument instructor, who was an
older guy from the Air Force
or whatever, that he really.
He really changed the way I fly.
So I think, to answer your
question, I think it's.
It's very important.
However, not everybody has
access to that.
In fact, this is like, this is
one of my life's missions, really.
I mean, this is why we give
our app and our syllabus, it's all
free for instructors.
And the idea is that we want
to try to make this education available
to everybody.
So if you go through our
flight training, the flight training
side of our app, for example,
all of these exercises and lessons
are there.
They're part of our syllabus.
And so I always say to people,
if you're not sure, you know, if
you, if you're like me, if you
really like your flight instructor,
but you are aware that this
person is like 22 and just learned
12 months ago, you know?
Yeah.
You know, then you should get
our app and just follow along and
make sure that your instructor
has it also, because your instructor
would get it free and make
sure that some of these lessons are
being built in, if possible.
Right.
Because this is, you know,
this is like, this is.
There's a lot of meat on the
bone here, so to speak.
You know, I have right now two
private students that I'm working
with.
And, you know, I. I was flying
with one of them the other day, and
I was having a heck of a time
getting him to use his feet.
You know, he's like, he's, you
know, he's post solo, but it's like,
how is this my student?
Right.
I mean, you.
You know me, and I'm like, I
am doing all these things.
How is it that my student
isn't using the rudder the way that
I want him to?
And I realized, you know, and
I realized we need to really go out
and do a couple lessons more
like what we're talking about where
we're going to go fly with a
dry erase marker, the instruments
covered, and we're not going
to touch the yoke.
You know, we're going to do
falling leaf stall exercises and
slow to minimum controllable
airspeed and do all these things
that are not on the acs.
But once all of this stuff
comes together, that's when.
Just all those goals that I
was saying that we're looking for.
Yes.
What the examiner is trying to test.
Does this person know the rudder?
Does this person control the
angle of attack in a way that is
safe?
All of that stuff will be
there if we just invest in those
initial basics.
That's really.
Yeah, it's a, it's a.
It's a hard thing to come by and.
But it's really important.
And it's counterintuitive.
It's a little bit like if
anyone's a sailor, another example
you can think of is it's like
tacking a sailboat.
You know, sometimes when
you're sailing, you go the wrong
way because you're trying to
get into a better spot so that you
can go faster.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That's what this is like.
Yeah.
And I think, I think another
one that's counterintuitive is making
sure you are spending money
and flying, too, because you need
to stay current.
Right.
The longer stretch that you
have of taking time off is gonna
just make you repeat lessons
and it' to extend your training.
So if you can find a way to
make sure you're staying consistent.
And it, like I said, it might
be more expensive, but in the, in
the short term, but it will
save you money in the long term.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think there's a lot of
examples of how we can think about
this.
I mean, it's like I was just
telling you when we got on that I
was at the gym this morning,
and, and you're, you know, you're
an athlete, so you know that
like, you, you go, well, there's
a, there's a regimen, right.
Like you might go to the gym
one day and you're working on lower
body.
Right.
And Then the next day you go
and you're working on upper body
and then you go do like a
cardio day or whatever it is.
And this is sort of where we
started is if people start thinking
about flight training as a
monthly expense, you can design a
program for yourself.
Yeah, like if you were
somebody that just really money was
tight, you might say, well you
know, one week of the month I'm doing
just dry time.
That's like first week of the
month I'm out there doing dry time
and procedures.
Second week of the month I'm
like reviewing accidents and listening
to atc, practicing radio
communications, whatever it is.
Third week I'm going to go
flying or you know, whatever the
program is.
Maybe I fly every week or
twice a week or three times a week,
depending on how much money
you have monthly.
But you want to start to think
of like a consistent rhythm like
you're saying, because if you
have gaps, that's where you're going
to end up spending way more in
the long run.
Let's take a break from
today's podcast to hear from our
sponsor raa.
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And then what do you think is
like a sweet spot of how much you
should fly in a week?
Like let's just say someone
has unlimited money.
Money.
Do you think it's healthy to
fly five times a week, seven times
a week or what's kind of the
sweet spot in training versus kind
of having fun and making sure
you have a life outside of this?
Well, if you want a life
outside of it, I think twice a week
is a sweet Spot because you
really have to understand that you're
not being as efficient as you
can be unless you're like putting
three hours in for every hour
you fly.
Okay, so like all this dry
time I'm talking about and the radio
communications practice, maybe
studying regulations, you know, for
every flight you go on, you
could walk away with a list of things
that you could dive into the
books and, and study.
Something happened on that flight.
Some guy entered the pattern
in a certain way or something happened
in the airplane that you're
not sure about.
Whatever you know, you can go,
you know, build your knowledge and
study from the actual
experience of your flight.
If you're in training, there's
stuff your instructor is going to
tell you to go review or think about.
Out.
Filming the flights is a, is a
really wise idea.
Maybe not posting all on
Instagram or YouTube but for your
own consumption to make sure
you're a better pilot.
Right?
Well, yeah, but I mean
filming, yeah and just you know,
like having a protocol, you
finish the flight, you maybe you
have now you've got to review
the video.
Then there's going to be
things that come up in the video
that you want to study and
research and then there's some procedural
practice that comes, comes out
of it.
So the problem with flying
five days a week is there's just
zero time to study and do all
that prep work in between the lessons
and then you're learning in
the airplane.
So it's not the most cost
effective way to do it.
I would say if you had no life
like you just were full time in flight
training, three days a week
would be a sweet spot.
Yeah, no, I think, I think
three, I think two to three is probably
a great recommendation.
That's what I try to do.
When I, when I stepped away
from football and I made it kind
of like my full time job was flying.
I worked part time at the
Apple store too, but that was just
whatever.
But, but yeah, it was just two
to three times a week and just try
to enjoy it as much as you can.
I think one thing to say about
this as well is to understand that
some days are going to be
harder than others.
There's gonna be some days you
get out of the airplane, you're gonna
feel like you cannot do this
and that this is not a career for
you.
And I just want you to know
that, that I promise you you can
do this and this is a career
for you.
I know a lot of people who I
would probably be like, I probably
don't want to fly with Them,
but they are airline pilots right
now.
They're all trained SOPs.
They're all doing great.
But it's like, you know, you
just have this.
You.
You saw what they did when
they're in their private.
You're like, whoa, that's a little.
A little weird.
Yeah.
But you can do this.
Anyone can do this.
I promise you, you can become
a pilot and you can have a great
career.
There are going to be days,
and there's going to be needed days
where instructors are going to
be really tough on you and be like,
look, dude, you're not where
you need to be.
And you need to understand
that criticism and take it as.
Not necessarily as attack on
you, but just burn the fuel to help
you burn the energy to make
you want to do this even more and
be the best pilot you can be.
Yeah, for sure.
In fact, there's a
conversation that is so consistent
for me that I. I expect it now
on the instrument rating, there's
always a point where I have to
tell my students that they have to,
like, basically try harder.
Yeah.
And.
And.
And it's not just them.
I mean, I had that experience.
I remember I was.
When I was going for my
instrument rating, I was keeping
a journal, and I remember
there's this page, like, when I laugh
at it, where it's like, I had
my annual goals.
Right.
I can't remember what year
this was.
It was a long time ago, you
know, maybe 99, 2000, a long time
ago.
And.
And the goals were something
like, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna travel to France
this year.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to, you know, fix my sailboat.
I'm going to do all these things.
I'm going to get my instrument rating.
The year went by and none of
the goals happened except the instrument
rating.
And even that I didn't finish
in a year.
It was like I just every day
had to wake up and realize I have
to put more into this.
Like, this is going to take
more of my energy.
This is going to take more of
my time.
And as I started teaching, I
realized I have that conversation
with almost all my instrument students.
There comes a time in
instrument training about a third
or halfway into it where I
have to sit down and say, look, you're
doing great, but I need more.
Yeah, like, I need more from you.
You're going to have to try harder.
And I think that's a healthy
conversation to have and a needed
conversation to have.
And I think as the student,
when you receive that I know I said
this before, but try not to
view it as a personal attack.
It's just what you need to do.
It's like your expectations
for, for passing this check ride
and even just being a good
pilot, of that being safe is that
you just have to be better.
And I think that everyone has
to have that conversation at some
point.
Yeah.
And it's not easy.
And so, like, to.
Your comment up front is that
people will have those days where
it feels like, I can't do
this, but you can push through those
walls.
And in, you know, in all the
years that I've been teaching, there
are very, very, very few
people, if anybody, you know, one
or two maybe in decades of
teaching where I thought, okay, this
is probably not for you.
Yeah.
You know, this is like, you
know, you should maybe think of a
different career.
Coding.
Coding has been great.
Yeah.
You know, and, and to be
honest, like that, like, when we,
if it ever gets to that place,
it's a. I'm the last person.
It's usually the student
trying to convince me that it's time
for me to give up on them.
You're like, no, no, no.
I promise.
You can do it.
I promise.
Do you have any other tips
that you can think of right now?
Yeah.
What was the other one?
The standardization, you know,
is the other thing.
And I think that standardizing
your behavior in the airplane will
make everything go faster and
help you be more proficient.
At the end of the day, I'm
trying to think of good examples.
It's like a, it's like a freeing.
It's, it's, it's mentally freeing.
Now, for anybody that doesn't.
Isn't familiar with the idea
of standardization.
This again is just a concept
we borrow from, from, as you know,
Justin very well, professional
operations, when you go to the cockpit
of your airliner, it doesn't
really matter who the captain or
the first officer is.
Like, you don't have to
necessarily know this person you
may have never met before.
The two of you sit down and
you start executing a ritual that
you've both been trained to execute.
That is the way to fly an
airplane that, I mean, I, we could
talk for hours about that.
Really.
It's.
It's the cornerstone of safety.
It's.
It's valuable in many, many ways.
But one of the ways that it is
valuable is it just allows you to
hold less in your mind, really.
Like my, like a fun example in
GA is if you standardize, after your
pre.
Flight, you do a final walk around.
Right.
If that's that's your
standardized procedure.
So I go, you know, let's say I
go to the aircraft, I do my pre flight
inspection.
When the pre flight inspection
is done, done, the last thing I do
is a final walk around.
You don't necessarily have to
remember all the things that could
go wrong in a pre flight.
You don't necessarily have to
remember that the pitot tube cover
needs to come off and that the
control lock needs to be taken off,
the rudder and the tow bar
off, the nose wheel and the chains
off and the fuel caps and all
that sort of stuff.
You don't have to remember it
necessarily because in that final
walk around, it's like a catch
all to make sure that you didn't
miss any of those things.
So as long as you're doing
your checklist and you've got your
final walk around, you're kind
of guaranteed that you're not going
to miss anything.
Standardization in that way
can simplify the process a little
bit, turn it into a ritual in
your mind and help you stay proficient.
It can be, you know, there
comes a point in my training program
where I know that my students
are ready to go when the standardized
procedures become their safety
blanket instead of a stressor.
So like with instrument
students, for example, I have a standard
way that I want them to sort
of talk about what we're doing, right.
There's always a checklist for
what's happening right now.
And then I want them to say,
okay, when we get to the next point,
here are the five things we're
going to do.
And then we sort of deal with
the after that effect.
Now initially when I introduce
that for them, it's stressful.
They'll be flying along and
they'll get real, real quiet and
I'll say, okay, I need you to
talk ahead for the next event.
And they'll say, okay.
And you know, it's like kind
of half coming out, okay, when I
get to the waypoint, I'm going
to turn, you know, and they, it's
kind of a stressful thing that
I've added into their life.
I know that they're there when
later on in, in training, I stress
them out by saying, okay, now,
you know, like, let's, let's get
an approach.
Let's, you know, we've been
holding here long enough.
Let's get vectors to the
approach and you can push them down
the road.
But you know, they're not
quite ready.
And when I see them react to
that, that pressure by slowing the
aircraft down and immediately
going into talking the way I want
them to talk.
When they use that as sort of
like their safety blanket, like that's
it gives them confidence to be
able to talk in front.
That's when I know the things
have switched.
That's when I know that it's
become deeply become a part of their
foundation.
Yeah, I mean, I just think
about my training when I knew, I
know in myself whenever I was
getting overwhelmed, you know, you
get really quiet, right.
You just kind of like freeze
up a little bit because you're usually
using all of your energy just
to focus on what you're doing.
And you are just so laser
focused on one thing in that if you,
if your instructor is like,
hey, I need you to talk about this.
And then you're just like, you
start getting even more flustered.
But it's important to
understand how to multitask and when
you need to multitask and
there obviously are times where you
just need to focus in and
talking is not the right thing, but
it's a great exercise and
getting yourself out of just being
laser locked and focused on
one thing.
Thing.
Because you know, if you're
just staring at your VSI or altitude,
you might not be looking at
your air speed.
It might not be.
If you're staring at the
radios or your map, you might be
looking to see you're getting
slow, you're getting uncoordinated.
You know, there's so many
things that are happening and keeping
your scan and standardized.
What you're talking about four
airlines, right?
Triggers and flows and you
mentioned it.
I don't, let's see, 90% of the
time, I mean, I'm relatively new
to the company.
I don't know who I'm, I've
never met them before.
But we sit down, it's like an
act, it's like a show.
Like we have triggers, we have
flows, we know what, what's going
to do.
We do some pilot stuff in
between there and then and.
But we know like at 18,000ft
he's going to touch this button,
he's going to call for this
checklist here.
It's just, it's a show and
it's a play and we all have lines.
But yeah, I think it's very
important to, to lock that in very
early on in your training.
Yeah, 100%.
And that, that is the way you
should fly.
Whether you're flying in an
airliner with a crew or whether you're
flying single pilot.
And if you really take a
closer, close look at single pilot
professional operations, they
do exactly the same thing.
There.
There doesn't need to be two
people there to have the show go
on, so to speak.
Like, you know, even in the
single pilot world.
And there are many, many
reasons why that's important.
And I, you know, we said this
earlier in the conversation, but
we can just.
We don't even have to know why.
We can just take it from the
pros that that's the way it works.
And.
And that's the way we should
do it.
And.
And I guess my point on saving
money is if you learn, if you ritualize
your flying, you cut out a lot
of, I guess what I would call slop,
and you give yourself this
very clear ritual that you have to
remember that gives you
confidence, and it gives you.
It's like.
Yeah.
I don't know exactly how to
describe it, but it's like putting
on your uniform, you know,
like when.
I don't know, when you guys
played football, all.
I'm just.
I haven't asked this to an athlete.
I've asked law enforcement
officers, soldiers or whatever, but,
like, did you.
Was it a different level of
play, let's say, when you got in
uniform than if you all were
just in sweatpants and T shirts throwing
balls around?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, like every Thursday we
had like a walk around with just
a helmet on.
And it's more fun.
You know, you're just walking around.
But when you start putting
pads on, or honestly, the very first
time you put pads on and the
very first time you do a live practice,
that's when stuff gets.
Starts getting really serious.
That's when, you know, some
people can play really well without
pads on, but as soon as you
start hitting, as soon as it starts
becoming very, very real,
that's when the real kind of athletes
and the best players show up.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's the way.
That's like your training.
You touch back into it, I
would imagine.
Then after that, if you do
enough really hardcore training with
those pads on, when it comes
game time, like, you put those pads
on, you go through the ritual
of putting on your jersey and, like,
getting yourself all suited up.
You walk out there and now
you're in top form, you haven't even
done anything yet.
You're just connecting back to
all that training and.
And the ritual of becoming
that athlete, you know, and it's.
It's the same reason why
soldiers wear uniforms and police
officers wear uniforms.
And there's a.
There's a whole psychology to it.
Absolutely.
I. I know you got to go soon,
but I Got one more question for you
as a cfi, if you notice that
your student that money is very,
very tight.
What's something that you can
do as a CFI to help them out?
And I'm not talking about
giving them money to go fly, but
like just something that a CFI
can do to understand that their,
their money is very precious,
their time is very precious.
What could you, what do you
think they could do?
I think that the CFIS can, if,
if this, if I'm speaking to CFIs,
you can really tee the ball up
better for your students.
So like one of the things that
I'll do with my students, each one
of my students, we have a
Google sheet, like a Google spreadsheet
and I make sure that at the
end of every lesson they know exactly
it's written into the spreadsheet.
Here's what we did today.
Here are the things that you
did like wrong or that you could
do better.
And here's the things that,
here's the stuff I want you to do
before we meet again.
So giving your student a clear
set of direct, you know, directions
coming out of a lesson saying
before we meet again, I need you
to go back and review the
following things from today, but
I also need you to look at
these four or five things that we're
going to do next time and then
when you meet next time on the front
side of the A lesson, same thing.
The objective of today's
lesson lesson is to make sure that
you have a full understanding
of, you know, we will know you're
there, we will both know when
you can do the following things right.
So clear objective, clear
completion standards, you go execute
the lesson.
If you're not there, if you
fell short of the completion standards,
then make sure that you had
you give them direction for how to
get back up to it and what
you're going to do next time.
And by the way, I may not have
mentioned this, but we, we recently
just put together what we're
calling the Pilot Roadmap, which
is like, like a free PDF
document with all sorts of suggestions,
tips and tricks.
Like all the things that I've seen.
It's many pages, if anyone's
interested in it, they can go to
pilot roadmap.com it is free
for them to, to grab and it's like
this kind of stuff.
Just how do you be more
effective and more efficient in training?
Love it.
Yeah, we'll head to pilot
roadmap.com sign up.
I'll link it below as well.
And I also have a link for for
10% off of the ground squab as well
for you as so go ahead and
check that out.
Awesome.
Yeah man.
Well Jason, I appreciate it.
You're a busy man.
Appreciate you sending some
time across and looking forward to
getting this out.
Thanks Justin.
It's always great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Have a good one.
That's a wrap on today's podcast.
Thank you so much for
listening to this episode.
I really appreciate it.
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AV Nation I appreciate you all
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Thank you for listening.
And as always, happy flying
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