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Conversations with the smartest people in the golf business to get the inside stories and strategies driving the business of golf forward. Hosted by former PGA Tour player Roberto Castro.
Beau Welling
[00:00:00] Speaker: I'm Roberto Castro, and this is The Course Record Show, the trends, technology, and strategy driving the business of golf
[00:00:13] Roberto: Welcome back to the Course Record Show. We have a Quick 9 today with Beau Welling, who is the founder of Beau Welling Design. Thanks for being here.
[00:00:21] Beau: Well, thanks, Roberto. It's, it's great. And, uh, whenever I get introduced like that, I'm reminded of how creatively the company is named.
So, uh, thank you for reminding me of that.
[00:00:29] Roberto: That's great. I could geek out with you on, on golf course design and your various projects for a few hours, but we're trying to do a Quick 9 here, so I'm gonna get right into it. Uh, golf course architecture renovations, it's booming, right? New builds are happening, renovations are happening.
And, and to my amateur eye, this current wave of renovations that I find very interesting are golf courses that are 20, 30 years old or maybe were renovated in the last 10, 15, 20 years. So the question is, how much of this is warranted, and how much of, of the current industry is like FOMO, right? The board is just saying, "Oh my gosh, everyone is doing this.
We need to do something."
[00:01:12] Beau: Yeah. I think like many things, it's probably a bit of both. I mean, I think fundamentally, you know, golf courses are living things, so therefore they're dying things. And so golf course infrastructure,. And what I mean by infrastructure, I mean irrigation systems, drainage systems, greens, tees, bunkers, things that have been built.
All of those things have usable lives. And, you know, an irrigation system, generally speaking, is expected to last about 25, 30 years. So when you have a golf course that gets to be that age, they start to have increasing, issues. And so a lot of times the decision is made, it's like time to reinvest in infrastructure.
So it's a real thing. And, uh, the bad, analogy, metaphor might be, you know, you, you've got a roof, and a, your roof on your home lasts so long, at some point it starts to leak. And you can kind of manage the little leak for a little bit, but at some point you just got to go put on a new roof. And so there's a lot of that that's happening in golf, that golf courses are, that of that age.
You know, we had a bit of a boom 30, 40 years ago. And so I think we're, we're seeing a lot of those golf courses needing to be reinvested in. I think you also have, though, a phenomenon going on where the population is really moving around. And so I think where you see people moving to is where you see the highest amount of this activity.
And so that tends to be places like Texas or Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, Mountain West. I think if you actually did an analysis, you'd see a lot of this activity is, is where these places are, are growing in population. And so what happens is that you have existing assets, existing club And and they're up, you know, approaching that age and so all of a sudden the decision is made, "Hey, let's go do a big project.
We need to reinvest in our infrastructure because we've got waiting lists because people want to get in these places."
[00:02:55] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:02:55] Beau: And if you lose members, you can kind of replace them. But I think at the same time, that begets this FOMO thing that you mentioned. It's like, well, you know, XYZ club just went and did and has the newest hydronics and bentgrass toy.
We need to do that too. And so I think it's sort of a confluence of, of a lot of different things going on.
[00:03:11] Roberto: Yeah. I'm bullish overall on the industry and the sustainability of these expenditures. And I, I know you are too. I think golf is sticky. I think it's more than a hobby. I think it's, you know, becomes part of your personality.
I think the demographics of folks playing right now. So, I hear a lot of, "All these clubs are spending all this money. Well, you know, they're gonna get hard up at some point," and this and that. And, and sure, it's possible, but I think it's a lot more sustainable than in, in previous iterations and cycles of the industry.
[00:03:41] Beau: I think that's right. I mean, I think we've seen the sort of- really interesting growth in the game in terms of who is playing the game. You know, a lot of this growth has been a, a younger demographic. I think I saw something from the National Golf Foundation the other day that 70-odd percent of rounds of golf in the United States since COVID have been played by people under the age of 50.
And so I think that, that, that feels super positive for the long range term for me. I think the other stat that I like a lot is if you look at junior participation girls are now participating at 2X what they were 20 years ago, and non-Caucasians are participating at five and a half X what they were 20 years ago.
So that's a, that's a whole change, I think, in demographics that we're seeing, in the pipeline. Um, so I'm, I'm obviously biased. I build golf courses, but, uh, Yeah. I think there's a lot of interesting things going on. And I think what it's driven by a little bit, not to get too weird on you, but you know, I think as we have the rise of technology and seeming connectedness with technology, I think humans still need a, a, a moment of being human, and they need to connect in a real world way.
And I think golf an- and other games and other recreational things, uh, provide a great opportunity to do that. It, it's a way to get outdoors and do something, but it's a way to be with other people in a real sort of human way. And I think that's, that trend is only gonna increase. I don't think that's gonna decrease.
So I tend to be bullish on golf, uh, even though I certainly admit my, my natural bias as being one that builds golf courses.
[00:05:13] Roberto: Agree with you. You don't just build golf courses, you also have a land planning part of your business. I'm just curious, who's the buyer for that? Different client, different buyer.
How are you, you know, approaching and trying to grow that, through the years? Your firm started in 2007, 2008 area, and you've said that that's really what sustained you guys through some of the lean years in the golf industry.
[00:05:36] Beau: Yeah, I mean, I used to work for a golf course architect named Tom Fazio, and, and, you know, we were just traditional greens, tees, bunkers golf course designers.
And when I left and started this, that creatively named company you know, I wanted to kind of do more. And I had been in so many meetings and, really- Observing that like, us on golf thought one thing, the land planners thought one thing, the irrigation designers thought another thing, and, and, a- a- and et cetera, et cetera.
There's, and, and not that it was like extremely siloed. I mean, we worked on great teams with great people, but it always felt like that no one's really necessarily speaking out for like holistically, like what's the best for the client. And I come from a long line of accountants actually, and my grandfather, southern grandfather would always tell me and my sisters sitting around the dinner table that the food before us was the result of the family's hard work for the clients, and whether that was that month, year, life.
And so this client orientation is very much in my DNA. And so when, when we, when I left and started this company, I very much wanted to be more holistic in terms of our services to offer to our clients. Uh, whether that meant us actually doing the land planning or just being prepared to be more involved in, in interfacing with other land planners.
And so fast-forward to answer your question, it started out really as trying to be something to do alongside and around the golf course design engagements that we got involved in and try to develop a more holistic solution for clients. I think through time, I think we have people that appreciate you know, some of our skill sets in terms of how to look at that.
And so we've even gotten involved in, in some projects that have nothing to do with golf that are, are truly, uh, you know, in terms of land planning. You and I were just talking about a place up in Cashiers, North Carolina, called Silver Run, Reserve, which has no golf course. But we were involved in helping conceptualize and do the master planning for kind of all of that.
And so when I, when I step back and look at you know, the why or what's going on here, I, I. You know, sometimes our, our offering, service offerings can seem maybe a little schizophrenic, but I think the common thread is that we're into places, trying to help build places and spaces, uh, and activities and programming that help bring people together.
So that whole thing I just tried to speak to about golf and driving community. And so that's what we want to do. So if you looked at-- to more specifically answer your question, if you looked at most of our land planning engagements, they tend to be around golf. It's like an, an add-on to, you know, to, to our golf design services.
And sometimes, like when a club is going through that big renovation, they, they may have a whole different set of priorities of what their members want to do than what those priorities were when the club maybe was originally conceived. And so when you make that investment in golf, reinvestment in golf, that's the time to look at changing space allocation.
[00:08:19] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:08:19] Beau: And so a simple example would be a, you know, a golf course, golf club, country club's gotten built 30, 40 years ago, like the word pickleball didn't even exist.
[00:08:28] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:08:28] Beau: And so now all of a sudden that's like something people want. And 30, 40 years ago, you know, the, the four-person family didn't necessarily drive four cars.
And so like the need for more parking is a prevalent thing. And so what we wanna do is try to look at what, what does the client need and how can we use our skill set and expertise to help solve that.
[00:08:47] Roberto: Yeah, that's really cool. Uh, one, you said parking. So Ansley, where I'm a member, 1912, right in the middle of midtown Atlanta, I'm convinced that now is not the time to invest in more parking infrastructure.
We certainly need it, like we need it for the next five or 10 years. But I do think with self-driving, uh, I think there's a world where you can have your car drop you off, and this is possible right now, at the front door, and go find parking, you know, half a mile down the street in the neighborhood. Uh, whether we all go to the robotaxis or whatever, and there's a ton of Waymos in Atlanta.
Bigger conversations, not trying to sidetrack us here, but you know, those are the kind of things you're probably thinking about now.
[00:09:26] Beau: I've been on the train of the autonomous car for quite a while. Like, I keep waiting. Like, I want it to happen, 'cause parking to me seems like the most inefficient use of space that there is.
Yeah. And, and I think one of the challenges is we're in this, this sort of tweener stage of- Yeah. like it's not quite there yet, and it's getting really difficult. Like on our sort of. some of our urban projects that we're doing, like to try to go finance a parking structure, a parking garage is really hard because, it's hard to say that's gonna amortize over 30, 40 years or whatever it is, 'cause like there is this expectation that the whole usage of cars could very much change. And we already see it changing already just even with the, you know, just the rideshare type services and, you know, the amount of parking.
And I'm a perfect example. Like, I used to drive in my car to the airport to go fly wherever, and for my job, and I never drive to the airport. I only rideshare. And so the whole parking dynamic is something that is gonna continue to evolve. But me personally, like I'm ready for, for the autonomous car to come so we don't have to worry about parking-
[00:10:26] Roberto: Yeah
[00:10:26] Beau: um, both as a design person, but also just as a person.
[00:10:29] Roberto: Yeah. I love that. All right, let's turn gears 180 degrees here. What is the opposite of land planning? That is TGL. Yep. You've designed some of the holes for TGL. We've bumped into each other down at the SoFi Center a few times. Uh, all right, what was your first reaction?
You get a phone call or you get an email and they say, "Hey, Beau, we want you to design some virtual golf holes for a, uh, a golf league that's indoors and the players are the best players in the world." What was your reaction?
[00:10:58] Beau: Well, I mean, so our first call, sort of given our- close relationship with Tiger Woods.
Our first call was really early with the whole conceptualization of TGL. Yeah. And so we got asked to try to help figure out the green zone part, like the putting green. And so this is pre what you're asking about, the virtual holes. And so to answer that question, my first thought was like, "This seems kind of crazy."
Like, I don't, I don't, I don't know about this. Like, how is this gonna work? And then we got into detail of trying to think it through, but at the same time, like, kind of liked the, the- It was intriguing at the same time as a challenge, and so we kinda liked all that. And so, you know, we got super involved in the green zone, and I think one of the things I, I really have appreciated with TGL is the team that TMRW Sports put together f- to try to figure this out and work on this was just really an awesome group of people, and like true team.
It, it was like. And, and I think what made that easy is like nobody had ever done this before, so everyone like had a part that they could bring their expertise, but nobody knew exactly where this whole thing was gonna go. And so there were multiple times in that green zone development that I thought, "We have truly reached a dead end.
This is the end. This is. We've- there's no way out." And then all of a sudden somebody from the team would have some light bulb kind of idea, and then all of a sudden it'd be like, "Well, wait a minute that could be really, really neat." And so any of it, it, it ultimately evolved and obviously became, started to get a, be a real thing, and we got, more and more excited and, and then the call came about, "Hey, we need to design golf holes to match up to the green zone."
Yeah. So the scalled virtual holes. And I think it was exciting to kinda think about how do you do stuff in, a world that. the easy answer is say a world that doesn't have constraints. The reality is, as you know, it does have constraints, it's just a different set of constraints. But I think to be able to think through that has been really, really exciting.
And I think another thing I learned, which I know you appreciate, is like the data that's been collected from season one and now season two, and to be able to use that data and then evolve the product is really, really fascinating. And, and, and some of that evolution can happen in a, a really, really fast amount of time.
Yeah. And, and I think all of that is like really, really neat, and I think I increasingly keep. It, it's funny how my mind has changed from the, the beginning to now, and it's increasingly you know, wanting to lean into how do we take advantage of the things that aren't constraints in the TGL universe, and lean into that.
And so like one of the holes, for example, that we did or debuted this past season was one I think they call Caverns, which is like in- Yeah. in a cave. And so in the real world we're always worried about sunlight and, you know, agronomy and growing grass. Well, in this world you don't have to worry about any of that.
And so, but it took me maybe a season, a season and a half to lean into like, well, wait a minute, you can go do this kind of thing, and that can be really, really cool, 'cause you can't do that in the, in the quote, unquote real world.
[00:13:47] Roberto: Yeah. I think the team, uh, the TMRW Sports team was focused on, you know, credibility in season one, right?
And they, they maybe didn't push the envelope on some of the designs, but I love where they went in season two and- Yeah. and by and large, I think the feedback from the fans and the viewers has been that they love those things. And then you mentioned the data piece, obviously that's CapTech's world. Sure.
, Managing, storing, processing all that data. I think it has tremendous value and we're just starting to uncover that.
Yeah. ShotLink has been a great asset to get data on the best players in the world, how they play golf courses, which I'm sure you use in your designs. But, you know, now the SoFi Center, when there's not a TGL match, you're getting a lot of amateur golfers in there, corporate outings, et cetera.
You know, that's a, that's an untapped data source when you're saying, "Hey, how do, how far do amateurs actually hit it? Where do they hit it- Yeah. left, right, short?" It's hard to capture that out at green-grass golf, right? It's impossible. There's some tools out there, but I think that's gonna be a data set that, you know, you may have a project and say, "All right, you guys have had f- 1,000 amateur golfers in TGL?
Why don't you send me their performance data, 'cause I'm gonna think about what this hole could be designed."
[00:14:50] Beau: Absolutely, and we've been trying to incorporate data for, a big part of my career. And you know, it's not unusual till this day, like, we may send somebody out to go observe and ch- literally, like, old-fashioned chart-
[00:14:59] Roberto: Yeah
[00:15:00] Beau: like, where balls are going. But I think, I think that data set only helps us design,. Like, every golf and architect in the world says they want to design a golf course that challenges the best players and makes it fun and enjoyable for everybody else. Well, like, if you have data, that becomes a lot more a lot more easy to do as opposed to just sort of, "You know, I think this might be the right sort of answer."
So I, that's all, that stuff is all super exciting to me and it's, it's length, but even more importantly, it's dispersion, I think, of, like, where- Sure. the golf ball's going sort of right and left. And, um, or, or, or where it's going, the scattershot pattern of an amateur versus a, you know, a better player.
[00:15:38] Roberto: Yep.
[00:15:38] Beau: Both what the intention is and where, where the result is. And I think one of the data points that I, I talk about a lot in my green-grass golf design universe is that if you think about y- a golfer over the course of a season, and if you have, if you had them chart the shot that they successfully hit a green, so whether that's in regulation or not, just whatever the, the shot i Yeah
that, that successfully stays on the green, and you had them measure how long that is, and what you'll quickly find is that a good player such as yourself has a pretty long number. You can hit the ball from afar away and hold the green on average. But a higher handicapper, that number is extraordinarily short.
Like, they almost never have a long shot that hits the green. And I think once you start to understand that, you start to realize that what happens on the green surface inf- influences a good player way much more than what happens sort of short and around greens, uh, 'cause that's, like, where the, the lesser players is successfully reaching the green.
And so all of a sudden now you may have a, a longer putt, and so a bigger contour on that green might affect you. But like my mom, who's like bunned it up to the approach and is now chipping on, that contour's really, it's a deal, but like relatively speaking, it's, it's such a lesser deal- Yeah
compared to what it might be to you. So anyway, data's to me like critical. And I've spoken too much, but you're no, no doubt that what you guys are doing is gonna create the opportunity to really capture a lot of data that's hard to get.
[00:17:12] Roberto: That's great. Uh, another left-hand turn. You're the president of the World Curling Federation.
You were at the Winter Olympics., What does curling do really well that the golf industry could take and learn from?
[00:17:26] Beau: Oh, that's a good question. I mean, they're both ancient Scottish games, and so they have some com- some similarities in a way. Like, they both are, angles are important in both sports.
They're both sports of integrity and honor. Um, y- you call your own foul in both sports. They're both camaraderie based. So there's, there's already some sort of similarity. But I think that the, it may be just the fact that curling's smaller and golf's bigger, but I think there's a real identity factor in curling of like, if you're a curler, like that means something.
[00:17:56] Roberto: Okay.
[00:17:57] Beau: And, and it means something in a positive way. And so if I were to show up in Atlanta and roll into the Atlanta Curling Club, like I'm gonna be welcomed in a big way, not because I'm the president of World Curling, but the fact that I'm, I'm a curler or in- someone interested in curling. And I think that, that, that being open and wanting people to, to appreciate the sport and appreciate that, hey, that person is a golfer and I'm a golfer, and there's something innately good about that.
I think that would be a good reminder for golf to have. I think we have it on the club level maybe, but like sometimes on a bigger macro level it's like, wait, hey, we're, we're, we're all trying to kinda do the same thing here.
[00:18:35] Roberto: That's great, and I think it's something golf is currently reckoning with, right?
Mm-hmm. I mean, you see the, on social media, the shrink the game, right? That-
[00:18:43] Beau: Yeah.
[00:18:43] Roberto: there's a whole new cohort of people we don't want in golf. And where do they fit in? Look, I think the difference in the big. And maybe it, it's not a difference, but the club piece is, is interesting in golf, right?
There's always going to be this, like you've got the Merions and Congressionals and Olympic clubs of the world for, you know, should be experienced golfers that can play well, all the way down to, you know, what you built at the Patch and shorter. And that's just a big, it's a big messy world, and it's tough- Yeah
it's tough to deal with. But bringing that attitude of like, hey, we're all in golf in a different way and that open-mindedness, I think we're making progress, but I love that you called that out.
[00:19:20] Beau: Yeah. I think we are for sure. And I, and know I think that I. So to be clear, I'm, I'm the opposite of shrink the game.
I'm a grow the game guy.
[00:19:26] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:19:26] Beau: So I'm a, I'm a big believer. I mean, if you, if you believe in golf and that golf, you know, creates this positive influence on people's lives and creates a certain culture and a certain decorum and a certain integrity- Yeah. like why would you not want to spread that? Yeah.
Like to me it's like if you truly believe in that, like to me you have to be one that wants to spread that. And that might, but that might mean that you have to accept something a little bit, different. And I think once we were fortunate to be involved in PGA Frisco and- And Seth Waugh was the CEO of PGA of America at the time, and I think he said it really well.
It's like, is that you know, if we wanna have an impact on the world, like, like we can do that, but like maybe we also need to start looking like a little bit more like the rest of the world. Yeah. And I, I th- I think there's something kinda, kinda to that. And I, to me, golf is becoming this more accessible thing.
And I think, you know, seeing these off-course type golf facilities as an entry point into golf I think has been fabulous. And like I, I'll bring it home to me. Like, I've got three wonderful step-kids that were non-golfers, but they started to go to Topgolf and sort of, thought that was interesting.
And then COVID happens, and all of a sudden they're finding their way to green-grass golf. And now out of the three, one and a half of them, or two of them, one, but one more than the other, like they're super into golf. But they never would've gotten there, even with me being in the golf bu busines Yeah
I'm not sure they would've gotten there if it hadn't been for these, this golf entertainment type stuff. And so I think that to me is another big lesson that we need to be, in green-grass golf, just be very mindful of, of like, hey, w- what is the access point for people to come into the game? Yeah. And so I, I tend to be a person that wants more of those access points and wants to bring people more in, 'cause I think that's good.
And you referenced The Patch. I mean, that was. We were very honored, you know, to be involved in that. And, you know, a m- obviously a huge impact on the community of Augusta. But I'm, I'm hopeful, and I think we're already seeing it a little bit, that people from around the country are gonna see, wait a minute, here's, here's a really cool idea that we need to
Can we onboard some element of this in our, our town or our community? And so I'm hopeful that will happen more and more.
[00:21:26] Roberto: Yeah, and that's one thing I will give golf a lot of credit for actually, is leading by example and following what works. You know, East Lake, East Lake set the standard for community revitalization, right?
The park is now being emulated by kinda what's happening at Cobbs Creek. In my neighborhood, Bobby Jone Yeah. has been a huge success. Some of that probably bled into The Patch, and that will be. I think that the industry generally is taking notice of what's happening, what's being successful and trying to do more of that, which is really good.
[00:21:53] Beau: Yep.
Absolutely.
[00:21:55] Roberto: Uh, I'm gonna ask you for some personal advice and then two quick closers. You know, people have called you a renaissance man. You have varied interests. You know, spend your time in different ways. How do you decide where to spend that time and attention? And then how do you manage your client expectations, right?
You sign a new client, they want you to build a golf course, and you say, "I'm going to the Winter Olympics for two or three weeks." I'd just be curious, like, how do you manage it?
[00:22:18] Beau: Yeah, I mean, I think I'm, I'm probably still constantly looking for the magic answer to that-
in a way. Uh, this year has certainly been, uh, a- as busy a year as I've ever had with both the Olympics and the Paralympics, and then being as b- with the curling, and then being as busy as we are in golf.
[00:22:34] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:22:35] Beau: So I think, one, I've got a great team really on the, on at Beau Welling Design but also at World Curling teams, I should say.
So I think that helps. I think we, I try to instill the attitude culturally of, like, we're, we are totally into client and client service, and that, that, that comes before anything almost. And, and at the same time, like, being, trying to be very mindful that we can always be better, like this idea of constant improvement.
I think that, having my name on the company can create challenges sometimes about that expectation of what's expected. I think we uh, I think I increasingly try to be efficient when I have, say, site visits and things. Uh, but at the same time, you don't ever wanna come across as being rushed, you know,
sure. So it's, I think it's sort of a constant balance is, is that. But, you know, we're never gonna do something that we don't feel like we can give that level of service. I mean, like, like I, that, that to me is, is what- Is our proposition to the market. It is like we, we experienced expertise created, but at the end of the day, like we, we want to always excel in terms of that customer service.
And this just goes back to my grandfather again- Yeah. of like the food before us on the table. Uh, but it's a ma- it, it's a constant, thing to manage and, and gotta be aware of, for sure.
[00:23:53] Roberto: Yeah. Now, CapTech's founder, Sandy Williamson, is a huge golfer. Uh, I've been impressed in the last, you know, five, six years spending time with him.
He always goes back to the client. Yeah. Do what's right for the client, client first. Yeah, partnerships are great but we always sit on the client side and keeping that front of mind has served him and our, our company well, and it sounds like it serves you well also.
[00:24:14] Beau: Think so. And I'll give Tom Fazio some credit too of some influence over me of that in, in that he always looked at everything in the, in the long term. It was always like the long term, like what does this mean? And so for him, getting paid was like a short-term thing. It, obviously everybody's got to get paid, but like, but to him it was a bigger idea of this idea of service and who he wa
[00:24:35] Roberto: Sure
[00:24:35] Beau: and what he was doing. And I think that was very helpful to, for me to be around that from age 26 to 36 or whatever it was.
[00:24:43] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:24:43] Beau: And, and so I, I just think that's the thing. And that, you know, you have younger people working for you and coming in and, you know, you increasingly realize that they don't have the lessons and experiences that you have.
And so I think part of it's like being the leader is trying to instill like this is what we do and this, this is how we, we're, we're g we're going to be and this is what our culture is.
[00:25:02] Roberto: Yeah, that's great. It's cool to hear some of those same themes again that I've learned from Sandy and others that are really successful.
Uh, client first and thinking long term. It's amazing. The, the red thread that runs through successful businesses. Uh, all right, quickly, I just have to ask, you have a ton of projects going. Again, I could, I could ask you 100 of them. So two that are close to my heart, uh, Kiawahh Island, it's kind of where we take our beach trips, and then Lake Oconee, which is down the street here from Atlanta about 90 minutes.
What's going on at those two,
[00:25:31] Beau: yeah, I mean, both ones I'm super excited about. And literally while I was waiting for you to join this call, I was reading the, the latest, uh, staff report down in Charleston for our, hopefully our last hearing- In front of the Board of Zoning Appeals to, to get our final dots on the permits to go forward.
Uh, we're ready to go. We have planned this Orange Hill project for the South Street Partners, the owners of Kiawahh more than, than maybe any other project I've ever been involved in.
And, uh, And that's part
[00:25:58] Roberto: of the private club, so with Cassique and River?
[00:26:01] Beau: That's correct. Okay. So It would be the third, the third course. Uh, and this goes back to some of our early conversation about people moving around. Like, Kiawahh's a perfect example of the use pattern at Kiawahh has all radically changed since COVID in that you had people that used to have homes there that would come, eight, 10 weeks a year.
Those people are now living at Kiawahh eight to 10 months a year. Yeah. So all of a sudden there's compaction with tee times and dinner reservations, et cetera. So they need this golf course, uh, this addition to the club. And so anyway, we're right on the cusp of it. I'm super excited about it. The site is inland, but it has massive, massive live oak trees.
[00:26:37] Roberto: Awesome.
[00:26:37] Beau: And so the golf course is gonna be, I think, very old sc- school and feel. It's gonna sort of hug the ground. It's not gonna be one that we move a lot of earth, but we'll get very creative with the golf architecture piece and kind of lean into that. I don't. We're not gonna do template holes per se, but we're gonna lean into that sort of thought process of a- Yep
Macdonald/Raynor kind of thing, uh, which sort of fits down, I think, in that market with Country Club of Charleston and Yeamans anyway. Yeah. So we're super excited about it, and it's gonna be a great complement to Cassique and River, both awesome golf courses. Uh, but this is gonna be very, very different.
Yeah. So I'm. We're excited about it. And there's gonna be a short course and probably the most significant driving and practice experience down at Kiawahh as well, so it's gonna be great. So hopefully next time we and I talk, we will be under construction. In terms of Lake Oconee- We're involved in a project there called The Hideaway, and I'm super excited about this.
It reminds me of something from earlier in my career in a way, in that a bunch of guy- people that were down in the market that had second, third homes and they'd come really from all over the country and, well, obviously a lot from Atlanta, but, uh, but from elsewhere. So many of them. Now going back to use patterns changing again, many of them have now moved-
[00:27:50] Roberto: Oh, yeah
[00:27:51] Beau: and what, what was their second or third home is now their primary home. And so a bunch of them have got together to say, "You know, what we really want is a true private club that everyone's sort of, you know, an owner of or a part of and, and, you know, traditional sort of member-owned club." And, and so that kind of thing happened earlier in my career.
I think nowadays that feels like that's a rare thing. Yeah. But it's more like, either there's a profit motive of resort or real estate development, or there's a, uh, you know, some big person wants to make this great, awesome destination place, and all those are great things, but the, the, the thought about this one is very, very different.
It's like really much trying to bring a group of people together, and they obviously have recognized, uh, the demand correctly 'cause they have well over a couple hundred members or memberships already sold and the golf course isn't done yet. And so, and so they, they bought 800 acres. They hired us to go build, the best possible golf course we could, and we've been involved in doing the land planning again of, you know- Awesome
looking at how some cottages might work and how you know, swim and tennis and other activities, other amenities can work on the property. You know, many of the members are gonna get to the site by boat. Uh, so there's a big boat terminal, water taxi sort of connection point. So we're super excited about it.
I was just down there a week before last, and it's just the scale of the property is huge. It's rolling. Great topography for golf. And then geologically it has all these huge boulders everywhere- Oh, wow. scattered throughout the site. So we're really taking advantage of that. And so it's, it's one of these projects that every time I go, I get more and more excited, and it's, it's gonna be spectacular and I can't, I can't wait to, wait to get everybody out there.
One of my childhood friends has joined. He's a, he became an Atlanta person after we left each other in high school and, uh, and he's one of these ones that's moving to the lake. And so it's also been super fun to me to sort of see this all develop through his eyes a Yeah. sort of the other side of all this.
So anyway, the Hideaway, and I'm, I'm super excited about it.
[00:29:53] Roberto: That's killer. I've spent some time at Oconee at Cuscowilla, which is a really cool Coore & Crenshaw. And the boom- Yeah. the boom at Lake Oconee knows no ends. It i Yes, it's amazing. absolutely crazy. Absolutely crazy. Beau, uh, awesome conversation.
Again, I, that was my best effort at making this a Quick 9, and I feel like- Yeah. we could go, for much longer. So, uh, Yeah. Beau Welling Design, lot of exciting projects going on. We only touched on two of them here. Designs holes for TGL, which I've had to tee up. I do the flyovers on the Telecast and I, you know, try to do my best to cover caverns and flex, which- Yeah
which is usually the 15th hole and deciding hole we usually play as our closer, your design flex, which is really fun. So really appreciate you spending the time today.
[00:30:37] Beau: Thanks so much, Robert. Let's, we'll do the, we'll do a second nine one day.
[00:30:41] Roberto: All right? All right. Yeah, there's a back nine to be played.
[00:30:42] Beau: That sounds good.
[00:30:44] Roberto: Thanks to Holderness & Bourne for supporting the Course Record show. We are audio only, but I will tell you on the video that Beau and I were both wearing our H&B today.
I have a button-down shirt on that I've been wearing a lot. It's hotter, warmer now in the summer, but these performance fabrics, button-downs, never thought I'd be into those. They're great. Beau has on an awesome print shirt with his company design on it. Check out hbgolf.com. Father's Day is coming up.
Appreciate Holderness & Bourne supporting the Course Record show.