Golf, Identity, and Starting Over

What happens when the thing you’ve built your entire identity around suddenly stops being your job?

This week, Matt and The Professor sit down with a friend and former PGA Tour player and Korn Ferry Tour winner, Chris Wilson, for one of the most honest conversations we’ve had about professional golf, pressure, performance, and life after competition. What starts as a conversation about Q-School, Northwestern, and surviving on Tour slowly becomes something much deeper: how the elite performers learn to let go, reinvent themselves, and figure out who they are when the score no longer defines them.

Along the way, Chris explains why bad weather can free your golf swing, why “be aggressive” is terrible putting advice, how Tour players spiral after missed cuts, and why the best skill he carried from golf into finance had nothing to do with golf at all.

What the conversation dives into:

•  Why miserable weather sometimes produces the best golf 
•  The hidden psychological pressure of Tour reshuffles and missed cuts 
•  What winning on the Korn Ferry Tour actually changes - and what it doesn’t 
•  The difference between linear and nonlinear putters 
•  Why Chris says he “never thought about pace” while putting 
•  The challenge of separating your identity from your golf game 
•  What elite golf teaches you about business, communication, and relationships 
•  How learning to “care less” can actually improve performance 

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💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-wilson-98b112127/

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Chapters

00:00 - Intro
07:57 - Chris Wilson joins the show
13:08 - Northwestern vs Ohio State
17:06 - The jump from college golf to professional golf
21:51 - PGA Tour reshuffles and surviving missed cuts
31:21 - Winning on the Korn Ferry Tour
35:29 - Leaving professional golf behind
42:53 - The philosophy of putting
49:18 - Why Chris “never thought about pace”

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community, and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in-depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

Creators and Guests

Host

Matt Considine

Founder of NewClub and our resident feel player. Matt’s junior golf career led him to the University of Akron where he met our co-host. During his junior year, Matt Studied abroad in Ireland and discovered golf societies. Subsequent trips to Scotland fed his passion for the history, ideals, and culture of accessible, affordable, and sustainable golf, a concept he would later bring to the U.S. with NewClub. Known for his interviewing style, quick wit, and compelling storytelling, Matt brings thoughtful, reflective conversations to The Bag Drop. His professional journey before NewClub included multiple leadership positions in growth-stage startups, where he managed teams responsible for more than $250 million in revenue. Matt actively gives back to the game as a Board Member of the First Tee of Akron and past chair of the Evans Scholar Foundation. Proudly based in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, Matt finds inspiration in family life with his wife, their three children, and their golf dog, Gypsy.

Host

The Professor

NewClub's Chief Ambassador and every golf sicko's favorite educator. Kevin is a thoughtful and deeply curious host. His studied, constructivist approach adds intellectual enrichment and balance to the show. As a professor of Math Education at the University of Georgia, Kevin's background in applied mathematics and cognitive psychology uniquely informs his insights on golf strategy and performance. Originally from Ohio, Kevin was a Division I collegiate golfer at the University of Akron, where his passion for understanding mathematical thinking began. After earning his doctorate from Arizona State University, he combined his analytical expertise with his love for golf by co-founding Golf Blueprint, an organization aimed at helping golfers optimize their games through data-driven strategies. Kevin enjoys balancing deep philosophical discussions with simple pleasures, such as indulging his sweet tooth, cheering on college football, and spending relaxed evenings with his friends, his wife, and their beloved dog, Nole.

What is The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf?

Weekly stories from the communities and characters shaping the game. The Bag Drop blends thoughtful, honest perspectives of Matt Considine (Founder of NewClub) and Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") with expert insights for passionate golfers at every level. Produced by NewClub and supported by our members, each episode welcomes guests from clubs, courses, and the lesser-known corners of the golf world for thoughtful discussions on all things golf and life.

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the first of its kind golf society in the United States; blending the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability more typical of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions, and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, along with signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is on a mission to revolutionize golf membership, making the game more meaningful for everyone who loves it.

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Matt Considine (00:05)
Welcome to the Bag Drop Untold Stories in Golf. I'm your host, Matt Constantine, here with my co-host, Dr. Kevin Moore, the Professor. Professor Slauncha, good morning,

The Professor (00:16)
It is a great morning. don't have a whole lot of banter to roll with today because just because of how excited I am about our guests. One of my favorite people in the world. Just meant a lot in my life in a couple different ways. ⁓

Matt Considine (00:27)
I think these, these

intros are always about, you know, excitement for you, me, our bond, our friendship, the lifetime of golf together. But today I think I might be superseded by someone that is more, is he closer to you? I don't even know how to, how to phrase it, but you guys have known each other for a long time.

The Professor (00:45)
It's like, it's like favorite courses. I'm not going to sit here and rank friends, but much like you, plays the, the role of sort of mentor in friend, right? A friend that you learn from about every time you get to interact and hang out with them. And he's been one of the few that's played that role throughout my life. So today was, and you scheduled it. It showed up on my calendar. I'm like, Whoa, okay. Yeah, that's, that's do this. This is awesome. He's a hard, he's a hard guy. He's a hard guy to get out in the public figure. He likes to hide behind, hide in the shadows, you know, he likes to just be very reserved and

Matt Considine (01:06)
I knew it would be a surprise.

The Professor (01:15)
kind of just observe in the corner and watch what's going on. So getting him up front and center is an exciting time.

Matt Considine (01:20)
Well, you you probably understand his past life better than I, but I understand his current life fairly well. And so I knew how it went to dangle in front of him. We talked a lot of business and they said, by the way, come on our show. So, ⁓ today, very special guest, Chris Wilson, ⁓ is joining us. Former PGA tour player, corn fairy tour winner. now an advisor in the world of finance and business, but just a excellent dude. I have some early memories of.

The Professor (01:26)
You

Matt Considine (01:50)
You know, we're the same age and I just remember him kicking my butt at tournaments all around Ohio. But I have one came back to me today. I'll wait for him to get on the show and we'll dive in. ⁓ but there's a lot he has to share from, ⁓ just a fascinating, you know, rare experience in the game of golf, right? Just spanning all those dimensions of high level amateur to tour player to now, you know,

everyday Joe playing the game and I just really look forward to hearing some of his perspective.

The Professor (02:23)
Yeah, he's definitely one those guys that acts with intention and everything that he does. You know, he to Northwestern, which is obviously a very prestigious school, ended up being Big Ten champions straight to PGA Tour. I remember in his downtime, he rebuilt like the entire upstairs of his house and it looks like a professional decorator did it, like someone you hire, you know, $150,000 job. Just someone, everything he does, he does at high quality with full focus.

And that shows up even in a friendship with them.

Matt Considine (02:54)
Yeah, probably give his wife credit for some of that, maybe all of it, I don't know, but we'll get to that. Any profondications for us, Professor? Anything to get us started?

The Professor (03:03)
We know I was doing some science stuff with some of my students recently and I'm going to throw out, we don't have enough hours in the day, right? I think you would agree with that. You know, if that's, if that's for work and you know, the backdrop and new club or just wanting to play more golf or the family time, we don't have enough hours in the day, hours in the day. We've only got 24. If you had to go with what planet has the longest day, so the most hours in the day, what's your, what's your gut say? Where are you going with the planet and the solar system that has the most hours in the day?

Matt Considine (03:34)
my gosh. All right. This is hilarious timing. My daughter, Nora is five years old. She's learning about the planets, the celestial world. She there's this awesome song that she keeps singing. I literally me and my wife last night had to look it up. It's like a rap and she knows it by heart. But the answer I they have a 60 day like 60 earth days is one of their days.

The Professor (03:43)
Ooh.

Matt Considine (04:02)
and I want to say it's Mercury.

The Professor (04:06)
Oh, you're close. You're close. No. There is my dog. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Matt Considine (04:07)
Neptune.

Noly, Noly agrees. Noly agrees. What is it? I missed it.

⁓ Venus. ⁓ Venus.

Venus has the longest one. Nolly, she's upset for me. I totally...

The Professor (04:28)
She knows Chris is coming

on, so she's excited. But Venus is the longest one, 5,800 hours. If you had to take it to guess at the shortest day, where are you going? Based on that, where would you go for the shortest day?

Chris Wilson (04:34)
Thank

Matt Considine (04:40)
Alright, so Venus, means closer to Sun. So we gotta go further. Pluto's a dwarf planet. I now know that. That doesn't count. So let's go with, it's out there. Is it Neptune or Jupiter?

The Professor (04:47)
We don't count them anymore.

Neptune 16 hours, Uranus 17 hours, Jupiter is 10 hours, Saturn 11 hours, Mercury gets about 1400 hours. Mars is about the same as us, 25 hours.

Matt Considine (04:57)
Yeah, yeah, there you go.

There, there, there, there.

Wow. Wow. Well, ⁓ speaking of, of the celestial fears, I hit a lot of them yesterday, not celestial, but little white golf balls in my title is fitting for the all new GTS series of metal woods. just we, you know, it's coming out. Everyone's going to see a lot on this. We, are very

Fortunate and privileged to be on the early side of that with Titleist as a partner of this show. Professor, give me just the one, two quick hits on your fitting process this go around. We haven't even discussed this yet. I'm looking forward to catching up with you on it.

The Professor (05:46)
I mean, it's still, I'll just start with how impressive there would evolution has been, you know, in the last eight years or so I've monitored, always monitor, you know, the newest equipment coming out, always bugging my buddy, Ryan Brath, what's going on out there in the world and all that and the strides they've made. And I appreciate the most recent one, the recent change with the GTS, you know, I'm a front MOI guy and having that front MOI with just the muted sound and feel to it is just dialed in. Like you just.

You still have all the performance gains. picked up a few more yards, a little bit more efficient launch angle and spin ⁓ match with this one. ⁓ But then this feels like there's just so much control, more control off the face with the new face that they've developed and the new horseshoe thickness around it. So yeah, awesome.

Matt Considine (06:33)
Yeah, I,

⁓ the site for me, like you, saw it front and center last week. I'm vibing with my GTs last year or two years running now. And I was, it's always, I always have that little bit of nerves going into a new fitting, even though I'm excited. I, ⁓ it's that adjustment occasionally, but the site, the site of them, if you enjoy the GT look, it's, I just saw that perfectly in the GTS and

The Professor (06:45)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (07:02)
that sound was my first takeaway. That sound was a slight bit more like a silencer muted, ⁓ it hit me hard with the first swing. I really appreciate that. That obviously contributes somewhat to the feel of the club. I'm not like you. I don't dive into all the data on it. I'm more of a feel guy, but the feel was improved for me.

The Professor (07:05)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (07:28)
And I couldn't be more excited about the GTS. got coming my way, moved up from a GT3 to a GT4, same window, same launch angle, but I actually was able to bring down some spin at that height. And it's a bit of a gain for me. So ⁓ we got more coming on that. We can't say a ton on what they've changed, but ⁓ very exciting stuff out of our friends from Titleist. So thanks to them for their support of this show, their support of New Club.

The Professor (07:34)
⁓ okay.

Matt Considine (07:57)
Go out and find your certified fitter. Get on the T-sheet now, because they're going to be busy this coming year with their fittings. Well, professor, let's get on to the show.

Chris Wilson, welcome to the backdrop.

Chris Wilson (08:15)
Thank you guys. Really, really excited to be here. ⁓ and I shed a tear during the introduction. You guys are both great friends, longtime friends from back in Ohio and we're now all spread out across the map. ⁓ but I did have one kind of interesting nugget. Kevin, ⁓ didn't know you were an outer space expert. And fun fact, if you go to the 2010 PGA tour media guy, which I'm sure is somewhere on the internet, ⁓

The Professor (08:35)
Ha ha ha.

Chris Wilson (08:44)
That was my rookie year on tour. had us fill out this, this form and I didn't know what to put for interests and hobbies because I was young and fresh out of school and golf was all I did. So I put outer space as one of my interests, but I didn't know the answer to your question.

Matt Considine (08:59)
That's awesome. People are probably thinking, man, who's this new guy? ⁓ I guess he's deep in outer space. Who, who knew? ⁓ Chris, one of my early memories of you was, I don't remember what high school hosted the tournament, but it was my favorite course for the longest time. ⁓ and that's a Sciota country club in, in Columbus, Ohio, host of this year's senior us open, I believe. I, I remember.

Chris Wilson (09:07)
prophet scientist.

Matt Considine (09:29)
A the nicest chat, you know, I it took me till I was about 25 to hit puberty So you just towered over me as a high school kid um You're a big young I think uh, but but I remember having the nicest chat with you on the putting green and And then you went out to just wax me by 10, you know in that tournament and I uh ever since that I kind of just followed You know your career

And and like you said, it's been a privilege to be a friend of yours now and hang out But just got so much admiration for for you At every tier as I said in my intro at every tier you kind of You know figured it out and and found your way ⁓ One of my favorites and another mutual friend of ours, you know pat goss talked about you winning the big 10 championship in 2006 And he and I quote I found this one in my research

One of the best rounds if not the best round of golf I've ever seen. So that's the caliber. mean, Pat Goss has seen a lot of players and a lot of great ones and a lot of golf. That's the caliber we're talking about here. ⁓ When you hear something like that, what does it mean to you?

Chris Wilson (10:43)
Well, let me me ⁓ quantify what he meant. It's not the lowest round he's ever seen by far because it was only one or two under par. But the conditions were pretty tough at Conway Farms. had about the windchill had to be high to kind of mid thirties ⁓ sideways rain wind. I'm sure there were several teams in the Big Ten going into that final round that thought we shouldn't be playing. ⁓ But the greens were potable. There wasn't that much standing water in the bunkers.

And I think I shot 70 or 69 at Conway Farms, which is a par 71. And I don't know, I was low round by seven or eight shots over Ryan Brem and finished second. But it was, it's not a round of golf. You'd put your dog outside and that's for sure.

The Professor (11:32)
What was going through your head during that round? I'm always fascinated by mutters like you and Chris Miller, the two that always come to mind that when the conditions are tough, it's like, that's who I want as my member guest partner. Like let it rain, let it be sideways. Cause we're going to lap the field. So when you're in a round like that, what is it that, you know, just locks you in aware of the conditions just don't seem to matter.

Chris Wilson (11:53)
Well, you know, less than locking you in, I think it frees you up a little bit, right? I think you take swing thoughts, you take kind of trying to control the round and you just throw it out the window because you're trying to survive. You're trying to stay warm. You're trying to stay dry, keep your clubs dry, your hands dry. And you're really not thinking as much during a round like that, which helps you kind of react and be more athletic and go out there.

And also, I think your expectations change, right? You know, 72 or 73 is a pretty good score in bad conditions. Whereas if it's sunny and 70 degrees out, you know, you got to shoot 65 or 66 to kind of keep up.

Matt Considine (12:34)
Well, looking at that amateur career, your college career, Chris, what, what did you hang your hat on at that level? Like, what was it that those are such impactful years for us as, as people and, and, ⁓ know, golfers, college golfers, what, what did you hang your hat on and what did you have to get better at? Like, w w was there something you could lean lean, but then also I'm going to put, if I'm going to put in, you know,

X amount of hours of practice I need to focus in on this.

Chris Wilson (13:08)
Yeah, well, I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts, too, as to create former college golfers yourselves. But I think in junior golf and amateur golf, ⁓ I was a pretty good ball striker, right? So if you go out and hit 15, 16 greens as a college player, it's hard to shoot a bad score. ⁓ I was constantly working on my short game and putting. You mentioned Pat Gospi and my coach, who's a wonderful short game coach, wonderful putting coach. ⁓

The Professor (13:24)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Wilson (13:34)
worked with Luke Donald, Matt Fitzpatrick, these guys who some of the best chippers in the world, whether it's cross-handed or conventional. So I was lucky to have Pat in my corner and really help kind of accelerate my short game improvement while I was in school. And funny enough, after school, after I turned professional, that became sort of my crutch as a player and the ball striking sort of petered off, which is why I'm not still playing anymore. college is a time...

For me, was about ⁓ becoming a better golfer holistically. Now there's little pieces that I mentioned there that contribute to that, but like, how do you get to the point where you can get through Q school or you can make cuts on the corn fair, the PGA tour with your B game, and then a couple of times a year you do have your A game, and that's when you have a chance to win on the weekends. So that's kind of was my focus all through college is how do I constantly 1 % get a little bit better?

to where when I don't have my best stuff, I can compete, you know, at the professional level.

The Professor (14:39)
At the professional level, Chris, let's take that transition when you you you win the big.

Matt Considine (14:42)
Hold on, but before

you get there, professor, I want to squeeze in one more in the college. Cause I just, I just thought about the listeners here and our audience, the two top ones are, uh, the state of Illinois and the state of Ohio. And so I'm going to get some controversy out of this episode. Uh, Chris, you grew up in Columbus, the professors wearing the hat. You didn't go to Ohio state. You went to Northwestern. Did that had to have been a decision, right? Or a tough one, maybe.

The Professor (14:46)
Go for it.

Matt Considine (15:12)
What pulled you to the other side of the Big Ten?

Chris Wilson (15:13)
Yeah.

Yeah, as you both know, I grew up a Buckeye. I'm an Ohio State fan and coaching staff at the time there was great to me. I did take an official visit to both Northwestern and Ohio State, among others, and was fortunate to be offered the Jack Nicholas Scholarship at Ohio State, which is an honorary. I don't remember what the percentage was. And as Kevin mentioned in the intro, I like to take my time in making important decisions.

Talked to my family about it, thought a lot about it. I think the opportunity to go get an education from Northwestern was really high on the list, but probably just as high was to go experience and do something different on my own. I think if you were to look at my high school graduating class, I bet 60 % went to Ohio University, Miami of Ohio, Ohio State or Akron. And the rest, maybe 30 % went out of state and did something else on their own.

I'll never forget someone telling me when that subset that went out on their own came back that first Christmas break, their freshman year, like the maturity level and what you could see in those people that had to go figure out how to do their own laundry and travel. And ⁓ if professional golf was in the future, I viewed going out of state and doing something new on my own as a part of learning how to do that in the next career.

The Professor (16:39)
Wow, yeah.

Matt Considine (16:39)
That was a

much more sophisticated answer than I was hoping for. ⁓ That just speaks so, so well to your maturity and. Yeah. ⁓

Chris Wilson (16:42)
Hahaha.

It wasn't just like Chicago pizzas better than Columbus pizza.

The Professor (16:50)
I was just gonna,

we should kick it to Matt, like why did you choose Chicago? Cause it's Chicago probably, right?

Matt Considine (16:57)
to get

the heck out of Akron. No, love my hometown. ⁓ To you, professor, take us to the pro game.

The Professor (17:06)
Yeah. So I mean, I want to build on that. think we're going to get into how moving away to Northwestern maybe helped you throughout the rest of your life and going through that growing experience. But that's now circled back. know a lot of our listeners are just, it's hard for people to have a concept. Yeah. You mentioned Matt and I had college careers. I would not call them successful by any accounts. And certainly when we got there, we, I'll speak personally. I didn't have the mindset of like pushing myself and okay, what areas are going to get better and how am going to grow to the next level?

And I think until someone's been there, they can't answer this question. So I'm going to kick it to you. When you move from that college level, you you're a big 10 player or you win the big 10 championship, you know, you're one of the best players in the country coming out of college and you make that switch to the pro game. What changes, you know, what you're so observant when you all of sudden open your eyes and you're now a professional and you're like, what do I need to do better? What was your answer as you made that transition?

Chris Wilson (18:02)
Hopefully nothing changes, but when you go from playing the game with a team at the amateur level and you start to layer in more travel, ⁓ the money component, ⁓ kind of doing it for a career component rather than doing it and then having school and classes and workouts and a social, like it becomes consuming at the professional level. And I think the challenge for a lot of

good college players making the transition is how do I still kind of maintain the feeling of it being a game and a sport and something I grew up enjoying and the reason I got into it as those pieces on the fringe start to sort of take center stage. ⁓ Funny enough, you guys probably experienced this too in college golf, we were lucky and we got to play some really nice golf courses, really nice high end private clubs, tournaments.

The Professor (18:57)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Wilson (19:00)
and you go to the mini tours and you're playing a casino resort in the middle of nowhere in Mississippi, ⁓ you know, on the kind of what was the Hooters tour back then. And then you take a step up to the corn fairy tour and you're playing nicer places than the PGA tour and you're playing nicer places. But I would argue that some of the courses you play in college ⁓ are even nicer than most PGA tour courses. So the quality of field and the depth of field

is much stronger at the professional level. ⁓ I would say the golf courses are not as good as some that you'd play in college. But I think trying to maintain the feeling of why you got into the game, what you enjoy about the game, ⁓ with having these ancillary things coming at you left and right is one of the biggest challenges.

The Professor (19:53)
In what ways did you learn to handle that and learn to cope with it? Because I'm sure you were intentional with that and you saw these starting to creep in. there specific things that you did to address that?

Chris Wilson (20:02)
Yeah. Well, and I mentioned this earlier, like Pat was a wonderful coach in college and he would harp on us every single day. Like, what is your process? How are you getting better as a golfer today? Let's, you you hear about it in all other sports and coaches talk about 1 % a day or 1 % a year. Like, how do you just incrementally improve? And if your focus is remained on that, it sounds super cliche. know, but you don't have enough sort of bandwidth to start worrying about the other stuff when you're out there and when you're doing your practicing and you've got your routines and you're

doing your putting drills and whatnot. So I tried to stay focused on those things and continually sort of ⁓ monitor them and adjust them as needed to try to block out all the other stuff that could creep in.

Matt Considine (20:47)
I might have some of these details incorrect but forgive me if I do. ⁓ Also the structure of the Q School and PGA Tour, Corn Fairy, former Nike Tour, it's all kind of blurred in my memory but you got your card, your PGA Tour, your first PGA Tour season like you said was 2010 and you got that through Q School, correct? Now was that direct to the PGA Tour at the time and is that where

Like I know there was a, I know you and I talked recently about a period of time where just, you know, missing cuts and, I think that was maybe where you lost status, but talk about the struggle to keep a card, to keep it to your card. ⁓ The margins are so thin at that highest tier, even the mid tiers. ⁓ I can't imagine what that's like to stay committed to the process while

having those things going on and the, you you're very aware of the outcomes to it.

Chris Wilson (21:51)
Yeah, you're right. So I got my, I got through basically every stage of Q school in 2009 in the fall when it was the very, very old format and you can get straight to the PGA tour, which I did. and then I had a pretty good, pretty good number, excuse me, coming out of Q school. think I finished 10th or 12th. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was a pretty good priority number and you've got a sophisticated listener base, and Kevin. So I'm sure they understand the, the, ⁓

the re-ranking of the numbers and the reshuffles. But essentially you're given a number of starts at beginning of the year based on your priority ranking. I was fortunate and had a really high one. So I got all the starts early on. And what happens is every six or eight events or so, they reshuffle those numbers based on how much money you've made. And then the next chunk of events, you'll either get in more or less depending on how you play in the first set. And so the challenge

became pretty quick. Like if you're not playing well, you have to keep playing because every opportunity you have means that you could have that one week where you could reshuffle in and make more cuts and make more money and get in more tournaments. But if you're not playing well, the advantage is actually to go home for a week and work on your game and see your coach and kind of reset. So you're always in some sort of a spiral, whether it's an upward or downward spiral when you're playing professional golf. And like how do you

When it's not going well, when it's a downward spiral, how do you stop that? How do you get out of it when you know you have to play to try to reshuffle in or to shuffle up? ⁓ Or if you're playing well and you don't have a great number, you just got to wait until the next reshuffle and sit on the sidelines. So I think the challenge becomes like balancing, improvement, focus on a process.

This is when the money component comes in and the reshuffle comes in and the money list and all that because at the end of the year, FedEx Cup is what those guys are shooting for and majors are what those guys are shooting for. ⁓ You've got to play well and consistent the whole year. Does answer your question?

Matt Considine (23:51)
It does. Yeah. Yeah.

The Professor (23:54)
So Chris, I'm interested. I've been in the woods the last couple of years. ⁓ And that probably is because we haven't played golf together in the last couple of years. And my best years of golf has always been when we've spent a weekend together. That's going to an Ohio State game and practicing at Charlotte Country Club or come up the Raleigh for a couple of days and just learning and absorbing from you. When you were playing professionally,

And you did hit that little maybe spiral going down. What was sort of your way to dig it out? What were your mechanisms to say, okay, like I need to reset. What did you do to like correct course?

Chris Wilson (24:31)
Yeah. So I think Matt, you and I talked about this a few weeks ago. I did work a little bit with Dr. Rotel out of Charlottesville, who's a world renowned sports psychologist. And one of the things we always came back to when situations like that popped up, maybe you missed three cuts in a row and you start trying is, it sounds very counterintuitive, but how do you try less? How do you care less when you miss two four footers and you have a third four footer for par on the next hole?

Like the instinctual move is to grip it just slightly harder to take a little more time, a little more care on that putt that matters or that shot that matters or that tournament that matters. When in reality, I think to free yourself up back, like we were talking about the inclement weather, like you've really got to care less about the result and be a little bit more athletic and reactive in what you're doing. And it's really hard to do.

The Professor (25:23)
Nope.

Matt Considine (25:26)
Yeah, I'm gonna keep it rolling, because it's so much easier.

The Professor (25:29)
Yeah, you can just come in and you

can just be like, you can really, yeah.

Matt Considine (25:33)
Yeah. With the, so with the AI tools kind of, it's like, I noticed one thing that breaks the use of the AI editing tools is that if there's multiple recordings in the project. like, if I keep it recording, like Ralph, had that restart. it just, even though was a couple of minutes, it didn't know what to do. But like what we're saying right now, it can actually identify pretty cleanly and say like, this ain't part of the show.

The Professor (25:46)
⁓ so if you could keep it one recording it'll just...

Chris Wilson (25:48)
Did

I lose you guys?

The Professor (25:59)
Yeah.

He just said, did your computer die?

Matt Considine (26:07)
Yeah, I think it was a signal because it was telling me, you know, reconnecting.

The Professor (26:16)
We're so hot. Did I mess this up with Tyler's?

Matt Considine (26:19)
No, no, no, no, you're all good. I'll tell you about it. I'll tell you just what they were commenting on later.

I gotta get your things signed too.

The Professor (26:33)
What's up?

the Jerry Dewey.

Matt Considine (26:40)
Yeah.

The Professor (26:45)
Yeah, Chris was, ⁓ cause you know, banks grinding my clubs down. ⁓ and Chris was like, dang, those are, those are good. And he's like, he showed me his wedge. he's cause he grinds his wedges the same way. ⁓ and he's like, who did it? There we go.

Matt Considine (27:07)
back.

Chris Wilson (27:07)
Sorry guys.

The Professor (27:09)
No worries, happens.

Matt Considine (27:11)
All good.

Chris Wilson (27:12)
I had a quick client

call. had to jump off there.

The Professor (27:15)
You

Matt Considine (27:15)
Is that what it

was?

Chris Wilson (27:16)
No, I don't know what happened. My apologies. ⁓

Matt Considine (27:19)
No, it's fine. Your connection was great. And then all of sudden your screen went out and then we lost you, but we're all good.

Chris Wilson (27:25)
Kevin,

The Professor (27:26)
Evi-

Chris Wilson (27:26)
you'd asked me, don't know how much you heard of the answer, you asked me how

The Professor (27:30)
You

were just saying in our AI can like do this pretty seamlessly. You're talking about like a four footer and a four footer and the next one. How do you care less? So just start in there. Talk about caring less and just roll.

Chris Wilson (27:37)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's, was just saying,

it's so counterintuitive that when things are going poorly, you want to sort of try harder, right. And to turn it around. And typically that makes things worse, right. Cause you start thinking a little more, you start taking a little more time, you start pressing and you start, Hey, this shot is really important because I just made two bogeys and then the results are going to be even worse. And it's, you got to kind of free yourself up from that. If you can absolve yourself from results. Um, but it's much harder said than done.

The Professor (28:11)
I'll never forget a tip you gave me. still use it to this day. This goes back to 2017 and is one of the big reasons I made the Min-Am in 2018 because I some high pressure shots and that qualified it to make the Min-Am. And you gave me a tip where you said, you know, we become so results oriented. And you're like, how ridiculous is that? Like you get stressed about a result that hasn't happened. And you gave me a tip of like, you just need to look up in the sky and just laugh at yourself.

about how stupid it is that you're getting stressed. Like just laugh and let it go. Like I'm stressed about hitting the water and I haven't even done that yet. And just be like, huh, what are you just such an idiot, Kevin. And like, I've always used that to the care, like the make me care less and press your situations. Now I'm just like laughing at myself about something that hasn't even happened yet.

Chris Wilson (28:59)
I

think it was like, Kevin, look how big that little stream is going across, like, and look how much land there is on the other side and on this side, odds you hit it in there are pretty low.

The Professor (29:04)
Yeah.

Yeah,

it's like, why are we getting so stressed about it?

Matt Considine (29:13)
there's, you know, we got to do our research now. This, this show is an amateur hour. Chris, I know you've been a loyal listener since the early days, but I had to dig in on your corn fairy tour win. the stat that jumped out at me, ⁓ was so 2012 the price cutter championship, man, these names. I want to see like a, like a collage of just corn fairy tour, ⁓ tournament names alone. ⁓

Chris Wilson (29:35)
That's right.

Yeah.

Matt Considine (29:43)
But down in St. Louis, believe you, Springfield, thank you. You took it down. You won a corn tarot, corn fairy tour event with the final round 67. And I wanted to talk about putting on this show because you gave me some, some great putting tips in our round together at Broom's Edge a few weeks ago, but also just a philosophy and a thought process. Just, you're such a thoughtful guy, Chris. And so I definitely want to get into more.

Chris Wilson (29:46)
Springfield. Yep.

Matt Considine (30:12)
of your short game putting experience selfishly, but also just a good conversation. But here's what I found that week you won on the corn fairy to event. were 132nd of 136 and putting is that correct? Were you just iron byron out there? Were you just flagging things or is

Chris Wilson (30:32)
If that stat

is correct, which it may be, that's even more of a reason why I'm sitting at a desk now. ⁓ Cause I feel like I made everything I looked at that entire week and I couldn't have shot a single shot lower. I think I remember the final round. ⁓ I entered it in the next to last group, maybe one or two shots behind the leader, something like that. And this was a course where like if you shot.

one or two under on a nine hole stretch, you were losing ground to the field. And it was a birdie fast. And I had made nine straight pars to start Sunday's round. And I was like five or six shots back going to the back nine and played a great back nine. But man, I remember making everything I looked at. So if that's right, ⁓ I made the right decision.

Matt Considine (31:21)
That's so funny. I, you know, I'm new to like looking this stuff up. So I don't know how PJ tour.com does it. That might've been after three rounds maybe. Cause I was looking at, you know, each independent round. don't know, but, ⁓ wins a win baby. And tell me about that. Like, I think a lot of us, you know, don't really understand what's like the reality of what happens out there. think you, ⁓ told me, you know, you won over

little over a hundred thousand. hope you don't mind me sharing, but I think a lot of us don't really have the idea of like what it is or where that falls. so that amount of money is not life changing at all. But what is like, are there elements of winning out there that totally changed your life?

Chris Wilson (32:07)
Yeah, I mean, sure. Like I think everybody's going to view this a little bit differently. So I'll answer it from my perspective. The money was great. think I won $128,000 or something that week in a playoff and literally could not have played any better to get into a playoff and win in a playoff. The important piece of winning, whether it's on the PGA Tour or the Corn Fairy Tour, you have job security, right? And the world of professional golf

Having a card somewhere, a place to play, a schedule to create, kind of knowing what's coming up next year is arguably just as important as the money, if not more. Obviously there's all kinds of backgrounds in professional golfers, people that come from money and have support. There's people that have sponsor dollars that taking care of it all. There's people who come from nothing and they're foot in the bill themselves. So the money thing is gonna be, you're gonna get different answers across the board based on who you ask. But...

The thing that I think is most important is the stability of a career and a year or two that follows or more. And it just gives you more opportunities, right? And the more opportunities you have, the more bats you get, the more chance you're going to have to play well and get to the PGA Tour or win on the PGA Tour.

The Professor (33:24)
Chris, so you mentioned it freeing you up. In what ways did you take advantage of that after the win? Like that comfort and that sort of like, okay, I've got stability. Did you change your approach a little bit or do you like, okay, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing, but now I can, you I don't have to stress at my schedule. You know, what were some actually pragmatic things that you maybe did or chose not to do once you did have that stability?

Chris Wilson (33:49)
Yeah, I actually tried. So the wind can mentally free you up. But the way I approached the week I won worked. So I didn't want to change anything from that week. I wanted to still feel a little bit of that back against the wall over that pressure. And I didn't I don't think I finished the year great after that it was sort of a one one week season for me. ⁓ I didn't even get my PGA Tour card and graduate with a win which is which is uncommon out there. I think I finished

The Professor (34:05)
Mm.

Chris Wilson (34:18)
26 or 27 or 28 or something like that on the money list and 25 got their cards. So maybe I should have done it differently and maybe I should have just relaxed a little bit more and said, Hey, I'm in a good spot. know where I'm to be next year, but I didn't want to change what I knew worked. And so I maintain the same level of intensity practice kind of commitment to what I was doing just because I knew the formula was right there.

I probably should have chilled out a little bit, Kev, just to be honest with you. Like, looking back, I mean, I know I'm 41 now. Yeah. And I was 20, what is it? Eight, nine, 10 years ago. I 30, 31, something like that. I view the world a whole lot different now than I did then, which is different than I did when I was in college. And I'm sure you guys would agree.

Matt Considine (34:49)
Yeah.

The Professor (34:49)
Hahaha!

I mean it's...

It is so easy to retrospectively say that, right? Like, yeah, because I didn't go on and win the masters or win majors or PGA. Like, I should have maybe done things differently at the same time. Yeah, you could have done things differently and maybe things would have been worse than they turned out to be, right?

Chris Wilson (35:19)
Yeah.

True,

true. If the puck was a quarter of an inch the other way, would have missed completely, right?

The Professor (35:27)
That's right.

Matt Considine (35:29)
⁓ We talked about, you gave me kind of a ⁓ lead there into something I was gonna segue into at some point. And you mentioned the security of that, of having a place to play and the psychology there. But obviously for so many of us, finances have a lot to do with that as well, right? And ⁓ I'm curious if knowing what you do now and...

What I love about what you did now, Chris, is we got together and heck, we talked more about business and investing than we did about golf. ⁓ But it was the same thoughtful process to quote coach Goss there that you're taking to that. Did you ever while playing on tour, ⁓ whether it was the being surrounded by guys making more money than they probably ever have or

Chris Wilson (36:11)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (36:26)
Did you ever consider this second career of yours while still competing? Did it ever cross your mind that you might end up where you are now?

Chris Wilson (36:35)
So, towards the end of my career, my last event was October of 2019. I would say the last year to year and a half of my career, those thoughts started to sort of take more meaning. And in that world, in the professional golf world, if you don't have all of your chips pushed in, you're playing against 145 or 50 guys every week that do. And...

I think when your brain starts to think about other things and plan B's and the rest of your life and like, what's the next career? Like you've already taken some of those chips out of the middle. And so you're, you're not playing against everybody with everything you got. And I got some great advice from Pat, ⁓ when I was making the transition, because as you can imagine, he's seen a lot of really good high level college players and amateur players who've either tried to play professionally and gone on to work in the business world.

successfully or unsuccessfully. And there was a few kind of really poignant things that I took from those conversations. ⁓ One was like professional golf provides you autonomy, ⁓ platform, the ability to make more money than you probably ever dreamed. Some sort of mild celebrity status if you're a household name out there, flexibility, travel in the world, all these things.

And the guys who really struggle, think, transitioning from the professional golf industry to corporate America, let's say, are searching for a lot of those, if not all of them, in the next job. Whereas like, are the two that are most important? Is it flexibility? Is it travel? Is it money? Is it? I don't know. It's a different answer for everybody. And so I really thought about that long and hard and then drew a big, bright red line in the sand and said, okay, this is what I did for, you know, 12, 13 years.

in the golf world, ⁓ here's what it gave me. Here's what I'm looking for moving forward. Here's one or two of the most important things I want. ⁓ One was flexibility and working for a private company. And then, here's what I am today. It's very different than what I was. ⁓ And that's one of the reasons, frankly, I didn't feel like going into the golf industry after professional golf is I thought my game and the ability to play at a very small percentage of what it was at a high level

would serve me better in the business world than it would staying in the golf industry. And it turns out, I think I made the right decision there.

The Professor (39:05)
Chris, you've alluded now several times, you've changed as a person, right? You even said there, drawing the red line and here's who I am now. And then a little bit ago, you talk about like, well, maybe I should have done things differently. I've learned and I see the world differently now. What has that been to shift in you that you've, the person you've grown into now and you look back and be like, I am different.

Chris Wilson (39:25)
Yeah, well, it's funny, like, you the titles change, the industries change, ⁓ the people you're spending your working hours with change, a lot of change. But the one kind of thing or maybe things that I think have remained consistent is I've always had decent communication skills and soft skills and the ability to talk to people, whether it's I'll never forget the

The all female roller derby team, I played a pro-am with on the corn fairy event, you who was drinking tequila at 8 AM, which was a very fun day for them, versus the really buttoned up serious professionals that you play a pro-am with. And you've to be able to communicate with both those subsets of people. And so having that skillset. And then the other thing is like, I've always tried to be more interested than interesting.

Which is what's kind of weird about this conversation is you guys are asking me all the questions. So I feel like I'm on a stool and I don't like that. I want to ask you some, but like.

The Professor (40:17)
Hmm.

Matt Considine (40:26)
You do

ask a lot of questions. Maybe you should start a podcast. hear a lot of people are doing that these days.

The Professor (40:28)
Thanks.

Chris Wilson (40:31)
Yeah,

there's no money in it though. I don't know. I'm just teasing you guys. You guys did an awesome job. just I think being more interested in what somebody else is doing. I don't think any of us would disagree that leaving a conversation, talking about yourself for an hour, you you walk away and you go, man, that was a great meeting. That was a great conversation. And looking back, like someone else asked you all the questions, right? And so there's there's a core ⁓

sort of philosophy I guess I have around how to behave and how to act like a good human on this planet. And some of those are part of it. And regardless of industry, whether it's professional golf, whether it's the investment business, whether it's running new club, whether it's being a professor at university, ⁓ like those carry over.

Matt Considine (41:25)
Yeah, I think, think so much we hear the stories of what we talked about in the first part of this, ⁓ what it takes to excel in golf and, I, the highest levels that you did, but we don't hear as much about the excelling afterwards. And the stories can be very similar, but the one takeaway I have in that Chris is, you know, you talked about 1 % better, but you talked about, there's so much focus in that and it's almost like

we think we'll be happier, more successful people with so much freedom. But really, if you just focus on the one or two things and not the freedom of all the things and kind of, you know, put some limitations in place, which let's face it, corporate America or a certain life is probably going to be more limiting than say a PGA Tour player who can jump on a private jet, whatever they like probably. But with that actually comes

structure and process and the ability to become a lead at something else. And I see you doing that, and I just—I love it, because I'm a guy who loves to spread myself a little too thin, and I get into a few different things hosting a podcast, blah, blah. But when you start to narrow in and put limitations on it, you can be a lead at something else. It isn't just God-given gifts of this one thing. It's a process and work ethic, so—

Chris Wilson (42:40)
It's so funny.

Matt Considine (42:53)
Yeah, just very cool to see you transition.

Chris Wilson (42:53)
Well,

thank you for saying that. I also appreciate you thinking I'm the lead at something else, which I'm certainly not. ⁓ Don't get me wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. It's a lot more than being able to have a good conversation with someone and be interested in what they're doing. You have to be a subject matter expert, right? And one of the reasons the firm I joined is called Brown Advisory and we're an investment firm working with large complex families all around the world. And, you know, ⁓

Matt Considine (43:01)
I said all your way. think I said it all in the process.

The Professor (43:03)
Ha

ha.

Chris Wilson (43:22)
Like it was not beyond me that like I needed to understand what we do and how we do it and get way more educated on the landscape of the investment world than I was going into it. But having great mentors, having the work ethic to put your head down and learn coupled with kind of the skill sets I mentioned earlier, I think have gotten me off to a good five, five and a half year start here.

The Professor (43:50)
Chris, have no doubts everyone listening to this pod, this episode, gonna just, wow, Chris is incredibly composed, ⁓ right? So well, like you said, you're such a good communicator, such a good engager and whatever the people you're around wanna talk to and you've always, they've been able to embed yourself in any situation and just fit in. ⁓ But going back to that transition, you you're five, five and half years in now, going back to that transition, was there anxiety underneath that?

as you were going through that transition that ever kind of came up. And I know you have such a great family support structure with your parents and Courtney, but internally, what was that like at an anxiety level as you were looking to make the transition and thinking about?

Chris Wilson (44:38)
It's a really good question and to be totally honest, like I haven't.

I haven't sat and thought about that a lot, but if I'm looking back five and a half, six years ago, six and a half years ago almost now, I was never concerned. Like I always maintained really good relationships with people I've met along the way. I'd built a network through golf and through living in Raleigh, North Carolina here and traveling the world that...

I, you know, rightly or wrongly of me, I felt like I would land on my feet. ⁓ Now, would I have thought my first job after professional golf would have been at a firm like this where the support systems and the mentorship and the people I work with were so helpful? Maybe not. I mean, I feel very, very fortunate and very lucky to have joined the firm I did. And

That's been a big part of helping me be successful in these first five years at this next phase, for sure. mean, look, yeah, like making the decision was hard, right? Actually coming to grips with the fact this is not only what I did for 12 years as a profession, but four years of college, four years of high school, middle school, you know, like growing up. mean, it's a huge part of my life, right? It's an identity. Exactly. And knowing that, knowing that I could continue to use that.

The Professor (45:57)
It's an identity, right? It is an identity.

Matt Considine (46:01)
Yeah.

Chris Wilson (46:05)
skill set and still play golf. It's not like you're a college football player that doesn't get drafted. It's like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go play pickup football here on Saturday afternoon. It's a little different than that. So I knew golf wasn't completely gone. was actually kind of, we've used freeing up a lot, but I'll say it, it was kind of freeing up to know that I could go play golf and not have to worry about what I shot or what somebody else shot, right? mean, Matt, you talk about the...

the process and controlling the one or two things, there's so many things out there you can't control that have an effect on the result and whether T time draw, other players scores, know, sleeping up on your neck wrong and waking up with a crink in it or something. Like there's just a lot of things out there that are out of your control. so yes, it sucks when that stuff happens and you get a bad draw or someone beat you by making birdie in the last three holes, but

That's why being tied to the result when it's affected by outside forces is kind of silly. It's harder again in practice to do than it is to say, but ⁓ I don't know. I went off on a tangent. Sorry.

Matt Considine (47:18)
It's a good one and I'm going to selfishly take us someplace professor. know you got another question. I'm going to cut you off right there. ⁓ because any loyal listener of this podcast knows I'm going through some, some putting dilemmas, some putting struggles and, ⁓ maybe they are too, but you, well, first off, since we were kids, I've always admired every aspect of your game, but always admired your short game. I always saw you make a lot of putts.

I always saw you just that composure on the putting green. So when we were playing together and I was going through said challenges this year, I elicited some, I asked, I can't even remember the simple question I asked you Chris, and that spawned a three-hole discussion with that I will title the philosophy of putting. I mean, for three holes, we didn't talk about a single thing other than putting. I wanted to get a little bit of that today. ⁓

Chris Wilson (48:09)
You

Matt Considine (48:16)
That's, that's start with, well, let's start with the thing that we all have joked about, is when you have a caddy, whether you're at the club or you're in an event or you're out abandoned or overseas and a caddy says something like it's uphill, be aggressive. I know that irritates you. It irritates me too, probably in different ways, but let's start there. Why, why is that like the worst thing you ever want to hear as a

talented putter.

Chris Wilson (48:48)
Well, caveat this by saying you're getting putting advice and knowledge from someone who finished 132nd out of 136th. I'm going to say those stats are not right by the way. Maybe that was on this. Maybe that was on the season. Yeah.

Matt Considine (48:58)
I, you know what?

The Professor (49:01)
Yeah, those probably are

non-strokes gain stats, right? That's just like, putts, yeah, we don't care about those stats.

Chris Wilson (49:06)
Exactly. Yeah.

Matt Considine (49:07)
I want that, I'm treating that as

like the health warning or the disclaimer for anybody that takes the advice that they're about to hear. So we've already checked that box. No one can, you know, legally sue us here, but.

Chris Wilson (49:18)
Yeah. Well, let me start by saying with all due respect to club caddies, professional caddies, banded dunes caddies, resort caddies, it's a thankless job. It's a hard job. You've got to meld your personality and the joke levels and the advice levels to who you're working for and looking for. But ⁓ I view, I'll get to the answer here. Give me two seconds. I view...

putters and golfers in general in sort of two buckets. And there's probably some overlap, but general two buckets, people who see things with curved lines and people who see things with straight lines. So if you think about putting, let's call them nonlinear and linear, right? Nonlinear being curvature, linear being straighter. If you've got a 10 foot putt, let's say it breaks a cup left to right.

Typically a linear putter will see a straight line from their ball to a point, a cup left of the hole. And they try to start the ball in that line. Then it breaks off of that straight line. A nonlinear putter will see that ball curving and see a curve line going from their golf ball into the hole. And I've always been a nonlinear kind of curvature type visual ⁓ person. And so

When a putt is breaking, my process, and this is what we talked about a few weeks ago, my process is, okay, if it's uphill or downhill, doesn't matter. Where do want the ball to go into the hole so that it only rolls a foot, foot and a half by? And on this example, this left to right from 10 feet that breaks a cup, using the clock method, let's say it goes in the hole at seven o'clock, roughly seven o'clock on the cup, six o'clock being facing you.

Just a little to the left of that. Okay. From there, I see this curve line coming all the way back to my golf ball. And then I pick a point just in front of my ball that I've got to roll it over. And so based on that thinking and that visualization, if someone tells me it's uphill, be aggressive. And I hit it a little too hard. It's going to go through the break and miss on the high side. Likely, right?

Because I've already determined where it's going into the hole, I've already gauged the speed. Right? If someone sees that same putt going in at nine o'clock, they've already gauged the speed. They're just going to it a whole lot softer. And their curve is going to be a little bit more curved. Mine's going to be a little bit straighter. And so when I hear a caddy say, hey, it's downhill or hit at 80 % or it's uphill, be aggressive.

I get where they're coming from and I appreciate them trying to help, but I've already factored that in based on the curve line and the read that I see. Does that make sense? And so I think, you know, one of the things we talked about Matt and that three hole stretch, and I got kind of excited because I love talking about putting with you and Kevin is frankly, like when I was playing, this is probably an overgeneralization, but I really never thought about speed.

I'd read the putt, I'd see it going in the hole, where it should be going in the hole based on it rolling a foot by. That is your speed. And I use the read to determine that. So like if you've got a huge swinger and it's going inside door, I know I've got to hit it soft subconsciously. I know if I jam the thing, it's going to go way through the break and miss high. So that's kind of my philosophy on putting.

There's not a right way or wrong way to do it. You see guys use the line, you see guys use no line. Typically the linear putters are a line people, the nonlinear or no line, but there's any combination of that out there.

The Professor (53:13)
Were you a no line guy, Chris? Pulling you play competitively or did you? Yeah, that's kind of what I do.

Chris Wilson (53:15)
I went back and forth. Yeah, I went back and forth. And

the reason I would do that, Kevin, is if I just was not either matching the speed and line correctly or the putter felt kind of bulky in the hands or I hadn't putted well for a few rounds or a few nine hole stretches, I just needed to change it up. So I just changed something, ⁓ which goes against stick into a process, I know, but when you're out there in the heat of battle, you got to do something to shoot a score, right?

The Professor (53:32)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (53:43)
Yeah, I, it's all coming back to me of that initial question was on pace and I, you just said it so well of the linear versus the curve that you're one of the two, but you had a more shocking statement than when we talked about the first time where I just kind of had to go, wait, what did he just say? And that was that you've never thought about pace. I think that was in there somewhere, but you told, I just have never thought about pace.

And for me, you know, whether it was, gosh, early instruction as a kid or working through these challenges of mine this year and years past, it's always been the two things, alignment and pace. I, I honestly, there used to be the third and that was mechanics and stroke, but I've kind of learned to not over prioritize that. Cause a lot of guys have a different setup. A lot of guys, you know, sternum putters, arm bars.

cross hand what have you, the stroke can be manageable in a bunch of different ways. But I always thought about alignment and pace. But your ⁓ description of linear versus curvature, how you see it, really frames well why you haven't had always the need to that because it's almost like one holistic thought for you versus

Chris Wilson (55:08)
Yeah. I how often

do you hear you got a match line and speed to be a great putter? Right. When you match them, that's one thing. Let let me pose a question and a challenge to you guys and your listeners. If you were at home on your carpet or your hardwood floor and you put a golf ball down and you put a penny or a dime or a sticker on the ground, a foot in front of that golf ball, and you hit it a hundred times, how many times out of a hundred would you hit that sticker? Probably a lot from a foot away, right? Right.

The Professor (55:35)
Yeah, from a foot away, I hope a lot.

Chris Wilson (55:38)
Okay. So, so that was my last step in my putting process. As I find that thing on the green, a foot in front of the ball or 18 inches in front of the ball. And I got to roll it over that. And that's on this curve line early on to where I think it's going to go on the whole. Now that's not to say, let me caveat by saying like, rarely did I think about speed on the golf course, but I had to train my touch and feel and my speed in practice. Okay.

The Professor (56:04)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Wilson (56:08)
So like if you play golf once a year and you say, I don't think about speed, like you're not going to be a very good putter. If you work on your speed and you do speed drills and you train your, your touch and your field daily, ⁓ it really comes down to like how well you're reading the greens that week and are you matching it up and are you starting it and rolling it over that dime, you know, foot in front of you.

The Professor (56:29)
Give the listeners your favorite speed drill. Someone that's going to spend the next couple of weeks to go into the putting green, like what's your favorite go-to? Hey, I need to get my speed dialed in. So that way it is, I let it be subconscious when I'm actually out in my member, member tournament.

Chris Wilson (56:34)
Yeah.

I'll give you two really quick ones. The second one's a little hard to explain, but I'll try. First one is, you know, go eight to 10 feet out from the hole, three balls. Put two T's like a gate in the very center of the hole, making it a straight putt, which is going to be firm, right? Because it's going to have a little bit of break. You got to it pretty firm. Then move the two T's just slightly to one side. So you got to hit it a little softer and still make it and go through the T's.

then move it even further. So you just really got to dye it and drip it on the high side. And that'll teach you like, Hey, I can make this putt with three different reads and three different speeds. Therefore, why would you think about speed, right? But you're training the touch and the feel to know which ones are which and how it feels different. And the last, you know, the other putting drill that back to Pat Goss made us do all the time. I, gosh, we hated this one because sometimes you were there till dark. ⁓ You find a hole.

You lay your putter down on the front edge of the hole on the ground and you put two T's in each end of it. And then you do it on the sides and the backs. You basically create a putter length box around the cup where the front of the box is lined up with the front of the hole. Then you go 15 feet, 18 feet, 21 feet, so on. Three balls. They all have to go either in the cup or inside the box, but each ball has to be past the previous one to move on to the next length. So if your first putt you hit,

The Professor (58:09)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Wilson (58:11)
is towards the back end of the box. You've either got to make the next two or if you've got three inches back there, they've got to be in that three inch, you know, area you have left in the very back of the box behind the first ball. And if you do that 15, 18, 21, 24 feet, you could see where you get to 24 feet. And if you do it uphill and then downhill, you know, we missed some dinners when I was in college because we were still out putting under the lights trying to complete the drill.

Matt Considine (58:39)
There's a similar one as part of my golf blueprint provided by my friends at golf blueprint. ⁓ I want to add one more that I really enjoy and that's put a T or a coin 15 feet out, walk another 15 to about 30 feet out and put another one and then go back to your original start point. And I think it's 10 balls. They ask you to get inside of that.

15 feet from the start and you gotta just go past the next one, just go past the next one and you think, oh, 10 balls, 15 feet, no problem. You can be out there a while. It might even be less than, maybe it's 12 feet by pace. I think you guys do it by paces. Anyways, I love that pace drill because it forces me to just incrementally, what does it take? And especially, I do it with a little bit of a break to it.

The Professor (59:27)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (59:38)
so that I start seeing that die pace on top of each ball, on top of each ball. ⁓ Boy, you're reminding me of some good stuff here, Chris. I think I got some homework.

Chris Wilson (59:49)
Well, and look, I

think the same thing can be said for, for green reading with other people like caddies and playing partners in pro-ams and stuff. It's like, if you're not practicing your speed and your touch every day, like the odds of you hitting five putts, the same speed, it's pretty low. So there's essentially five different reads you could make that putt at if you're going to hit five different speeds. But I think.

As, as what I saw the best players in the world do, and my advice to your listeners would be as like, really get good, create a consistent speed with your putting. Once you've got a consistent speed, whether it's a die putter or you're an aggressive putter, doesn't matter. But as long as it's the same, then you can really start to improve your green reading skills. But it's really hard to try to do both at the same time or say, Hey, I'm going to hit this one firmer because it's uphill. That changes what you've done and how you see greens and how you read greens.

The Professor (1:00:28)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Chris Wilson (1:00:48)
you know, the prior 10 holes. So I think the two matter, but speed to me is, you know, consistent speed, whether it's dying or firm is really how you start to become a butter butter.

The Professor (1:01:02)
I think the speed drills, you know what I've always found in terms of my game, that anytime helping someone else out to your point just helps you free up as a putter too. Because if all of a sudden, like you said, you make speed trained into your subconscious, then now it's just like seeing a line and like letting your natural putt. And frankly, like we're not good green readers. Like you're going to misread a lot of putts.

But the one thing you can control is your speed, right? That is the one thing you can control in every putt you hit that is in your hands where like, reading and agreeing, okay, I think it breaks a ball, but it broke half a ball. Or there's a couple of footprints that you just can't see, right? And it just holds its line. But when you have the speed down, you can guarantee, I mean, it's one of those, like my high school coach is like, you can always guarantee two putting, right? You can do that. If you're a good speed putter, you can basically guarantee that at least where you're hitting that make speed that's, two feet by.

And you're just trusting that like you can at least take that part of the equation and make it a subconscious thing.

Chris Wilson (1:02:03)
Yeah, I mean, if the three of us hit the same putt, it's going to be three probably different speeds, which therefore is three different reads. So for me to tell you, Kevin, it's a left edge putt and you Matt, it's a ball outside left. They're both right.

The Professor (1:02:13)
Yeah.

That's right. ⁓

Matt Considine (1:02:18)
I have a

very important question to this conversation because I believe, and I had a coach, Donnie Dar, another one of the better short game mental coaches ever who I have a very funny story I should tell on this podcast sometime about how he helped me determine what type of putter I was. And it was exactly what you just said, Chris, and his word was always cram, which I thought was funny. I always thought he, so you're either a die putter or a cramputter is what he used to say.

I haven't had the opportunity to ask him, why did you use the word cram? Was it just to get everyone back to a die putter? Like, did you believe that that was the one option? And I truly don't think he did. I think his main point was, I don't care what you are, you need to know what you are. And I had this very funny story about how he helped me determine that. But I know I'm a die putter now, and I have been for years.

However, I don't know and to hear your first big takeaway of the linear versus curvature and how you see a putt, I frankly don't have a clue which one I am because I've gone back and forth for so long being linear or curvature and frankly right now I think I'm doing some type of hybrid. I don't even know what it is. But here's my important question, Chris, for both of those categories, dipartite versus cramp quarter,

The Professor (1:03:36)
Ha

Matt Considine (1:03:42)
and a linear potter versus a curvature potter of how you see it, how do you determine that? Is it just a simple choice that you have to commit to? Or are we kind of instinctually, whether it's eyes, mind, what have you, drawn to one of the others? And how would you go about figuring out which one you are?

Chris Wilson (1:04:01)
So I think there's a little bit of guess and check, a little bit of testing, a little bit of hypothesizing. The question I would ask you, Matt, if you're standing in the middle of the fairway with a six iron in your hands and a middle pin, how do you see that ball arriving from the fairway to the pin?

Matt Considine (1:04:21)
I see it right to left. I'm a draw player. Yep.

Chris Wilson (1:04:25)
You see curve. Okay.

So if I were you, I would start with the curvature, the nonlinear, and play with that.

Matt Considine (1:04:33)
But that's

a great, okay, ⁓ boy, this is gonna be good. Because I see curve and I stand behind visualizing that shot with its window and its height. But as I'm standing behind the ball and I go through my process and I pick a point, it's usually, I'm looking for tree line, I'm looking for something away from the pin, away from the green to just get me in the moment. And I pick that and my last look is at that, not a curve or pick. So it kinda is a hybrid in a way, isn't it?

Chris Wilson (1:05:01)
and the combo.

Matt Considine (1:05:02)
Now I'm have that aim point. That's what I aim to. And I actually do in the full swing have something two, three feet in front of me that I'm over. And then I forget about, I don't want forget about the picture. I'm just aware of it is putting the same of what I just described.

Chris Wilson (1:05:21)
Yeah, kind of like in the other the other test I would run you through and tell you to try is ⁓ pick a breaking putt and put a tee out left or right of the hole where you think the start line should be or the apex should be. So let's go back to the putt that breaks up left to right. We'll put a tee out left of the hole about a cup outside the left edge.

Without using a line on the ball, set up to an aim at that tee and have someone behind you say, you are aimed at the tee or you're not aimed at the tee. And more often than not, if you're a nonlinear putter, and I learned this from Mike Shannon down at Sea Island, you will be aimed roughly a cup left of that tee, thinking you're aimed at the tee, which tells me you're a nonlinear putter because you're trying to visualize subconsciously the ball ending up at that tee.

The Professor (1:06:08)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Wilson (1:06:17)
versus linear people can aim pretty much at that T, or take, you know, an inch or two, ⁓ which again, gives you the option to make it with depending on your speed.

And do it with like a, do with a really big swinging breaking putt that breaks four or five feet and go have a tee out there, four feet left of the hole or right of the hole and try to aim it at it and have Kevin say, you're actually in five feet left of that tee, not at the tee. And that'll tell you a lot.

The Professor (1:06:30)
Yeah, that's.

Yeah.

That's how I learned I was nonlinear putter. yeah, it's like, people are like, how many cups out is this putt? I'm like, I don't know. Like I just kind of see the hole and like see a start line and just see it kind of curving down there. So then it's like, well, I guess like how to learn this one caddy for Blake. Like I need to learn like, okay, when I see the read, like how much break is that? Can I actually like say it now matching his speed, how he likes the putt.

Chris Wilson (1:07:11)
Yeah, I'll never forget a quick story when I was working with Dr. Rotel. We were talking about all this stuff and putting athletically and seeing curves. And he was telling me a story about Padre Harrington. ⁓ I think it was Padre Harrington. He was working at the time. He said he was so descriptive in the curved line he saw. He said it was, yeah, it's bright orange and there's like fire on one side where the ball can't go low of the line. And there's like

fire on the high side so like I've got to keep it between these walls of flame he was like going on and on about how descriptive he was of this curvy song I'm like dang like maybe I see train tracks but I don't see fire everywhere like

The Professor (1:07:50)
⁓

Matt Considine (1:07:51)
Rainbow Road from

those of us of the millennial generation playing Super Mario Kart, maybe.

Chris Wilson (1:07:55)
Yeah, exactly.

The Professor (1:07:58)
That's.

Chris Wilson (1:07:58)
Maybe that's for you, not Rainbow Road.

Matt Considine (1:08:01)
Rainbow

The Professor (1:08:01)
That's such

Matt Considine (1:08:01)
Road.

The Professor (1:08:01)
a Podrick, Podrick comment. All right, so my whole intention of getting you on this podcast is to put you on the spot. What's next in the golf career? I feel like we've got a little scummy am coming in the play here. Former corn fairy winner, how soon until we're winning a USGA Mid-Am tournament? I feel like that should be a...

Matt Considine (1:08:10)
I got them on the podcast correction, but okay, go ahead. We'll take that. Go ahead.

Chris Wilson (1:08:28)
Thank you.

Matt Considine (1:08:30)
You know, Chris, I'd like to, I'd like to apologize to our guest. I would like to apologize on behalf of the backdrop podcast to our guests. Everyone who listens to show a lot knows professors on a Vendetta or something, a war path. There is not much that gets him more fired up in the game of golf than the whole, you know, reinstated am.

The Professor (1:08:30)
I'm going to put you on the spot, think, with it.

Chris Wilson (1:08:43)
or Warpath.

The Professor (1:08:52)
Unless he's gonna be my four-ball partner, then we'll allow.

Chris Wilson (1:08:55)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I, when I stopped playing in 2019, I reapplied, I think I had a three and a half or four year wait. And the whole formula they use, I know it's changed. think everybody's a year now, maybe. And so I recently, like in the last two years, got my amateur status back. I have not played a ton. I've played some club things down in Wilmington where we play.

Matt Considine (1:08:56)
Shoot. Shoot. I'm screwed.

Chris Wilson (1:09:23)
I've done one mid-aim qualifier and I missed by one. And I'll be honest, like I haven't practiced at all in the last five years. I just play golf now. So my speed is not great. Yeah. Yeah.

The Professor (1:09:32)
I can confirm he's not lying on this. He

still, I teed it up with him last time, know, he hadn't touched a club in two months. He did go 66, 65 on a weekend I was with him. But Chris is not lying when he says he's not yet putting in the signs.

Chris Wilson (1:09:44)
I don't know about that, but...

Matt Considine (1:09:48)
I will add, sorry Chris, just to make everyone feel better. I will add our round together in South Carolina. I'm fairly confident it was bookended with two triple bogeys, one on the first and one on the 18th, maybe doubles. I can't recall exactly, but there's a lot of good golf in the middle there. A lot of good golf.

Chris Wilson (1:10:09)
Well, thank you. You know, it's an interesting debate, Kevin. You know, I think I certainly understand where both camps are coming from, right? If I'm an amateur golfer that never turned pro and I'm in my, you know, I played in college and I'm in my late 20s, early 30s and I want to still compete out there, I'd probably be a little miffed if a bunch of former pros got their emmer status back and were coming out and beating everybody.

On the other hand, as a former professional, like I would like to still play competitively somewhere and get those juices flowing again and play in tournament golf. And I'm not sure where I would do that if it wasn't, you know, in the mid-AM type events and the amateur events. I don't think there's a great answer right now today. I would say ⁓ if former professionals

The Professor (1:10:55)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Wilson (1:11:04)
we're completely dominating all the amateur events, you'd have a much stronger argument. I think we've seen some win, but we haven't seen them win everything and just completely blow out, you know, the lifetime amateur. Until that happens, I don't think you're going to see any sort of change. And if you did see change, I don't know what that would be, frankly. ⁓

The Professor (1:11:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think

the setup like your setup that you went under was pretty good. Like, yeah, you had to wait what four years or whatever it is. Like that makes a lot of sense and you can play professionally. The one year thing I think is an explanation of why the mid am last year, right? In the match play was a 15 of the final 16. ⁓ and what it means to be a former professional is that's the impossible thing to define, right? Like what does that mean and where do you draw the line? That's an impossible situation. I am completely for everybody.

Chris Wilson (1:11:31)
Right.

Right.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

The Professor (1:11:53)
getting their status back if they're playing by the current rules, if they're like, hey, wait a month, like, yeah, take advantage of that, go play, like come back to the end game and play, right? It's a regulation issue that's almost unsolvable.

Chris Wilson (1:12:00)
Yeah

Yeah, no, it is. It is the way it's currently set up, and I don't know what the answer is. I don't have a great answer for you. I just know that I know that ⁓ both sides have really good arguments towards it for it and against it. But, know.

The Professor (1:12:08)
Yeah.

Chris Wilson (1:12:20)
I will say I'm able to get, this is your political answer, are ready? My politically correct answer. I'm able to get my competitiveness in business now, so I don't necessarily need to play every other event.

The Professor (1:12:24)
Wait, I...

Matt Considine (1:12:29)
⁓ yes.

That transition.

The Professor (1:12:32)
The amateur game will benefit from your presence. have no doubt about that. In the mid-am game, if you're being present in the mid-am events, it will benefit when you are back up and running and putting the time in and comfortable getting back into it.

Chris Wilson (1:12:36)
Yeah.

Unless you're

running the tournament, then I won't be invited. Yeah, unless they're part of it. That's right.

The Professor (1:12:48)
Unless you're my partner.

Matt Considine (1:12:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Then he'll

now we get to see the true hypocrisy of the professor. ⁓ I, ⁓ my, where I fall on that is to your point, Kevin, Chris is going to be a great addition to any amateur event. And, know, I'll combine two things that I know with him that I'm not certain of with other reinstated AMS, but I do know with Chris is, you know, he's grinding at a desk where he's sitting right now as I am most days. I've

The Professor (1:13:16)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (1:13:19)
been able to, through our conversation, see that clearly and understand that. So I know he doesn't have the time for practice that I do, and we're going to make the best of what we got. ⁓ But also I'm going to go back to me being that 14 year old kid on that putting green and shaking this dude's hand and talking to him. Like I want that at every tournament I show up and I know he's going to bring that. So I'm all for the Chris Wilson's of the world being reinstated. I don't know how they

evaluate those two things, but it's all good for me.

Chris Wilson (1:13:55)
Yeah, Matt, I appreciate you saying that. It'll be really interesting to follow, I think, where it goes from here. don't think it's, no one has a great answer for it today. And I don't know that there will be a great answer in the future, but I'm interested to follow it for sure.

Matt Considine (1:13:56)
Professor, at...

The Professor (1:14:14)
Yeah, it's going to, it'll always ebb and flow with the amount of people trying to play professional too, right? It's going to be dictated. Yeah. But without active mini tours, it's kind of becomes a null and void question. But then yeah, you get the John Petersons of the world. Like I think those, it's, we kind of probably make way too big of a deal of a situation where there's like five cases that are problematic.

Chris Wilson (1:14:36)
Right, right, because they're the ones winning.

The Professor (1:14:39)
Yeah. And that's where like, yeah, the mid am last year was like the one that's like, okay, I think we do need to actually seriously talk about this now. If that like, is a trend that it continues where, yeah. Cause I mean, some of the amateur players, right. They're basically professionals in the way they play, right. The amount of golf they play to Matt's point, like Chris, you work incredibly hard at your job. And I know this firsthand, like you, the hours you put in there, don't give you the time to dedicate to your game. And you're not one that want to go tee up tournaments when you're just kind of having it.

on the, on the golf side. And you got plenty of AMs out there that are playing six to seven days a week and money games and travel in the world. So, you know, at some level they are professionals.

Chris Wilson (1:15:20)
Yeah, we should bring back the phrase professional amateur and just like, that's who I am. That's who they are. And that's what we are.

The Professor (1:15:28)
That's right.

Matt Considine (1:15:28)
do like that phrase. is, and I've done a little history deep dive on that and like what that actually could mean. So there's a, there's a solution out there. USGA come to the professor for your, your answers. We'll come up with something ⁓ in our audience. They just want anything that quite frankly pisses Kevin off. think people really enjoy when he gets fired up. Like it's so rare that, know, I'm the guy that's up and down. He's the, when you get him going, who knew, who knew reinstate mid amps would be the thing.

The Professor (1:15:47)
you

Matt Considine (1:15:59)
Well, Chris, you've been generous with your time and I know you got other things to do. want to thank you for coming on, having a chat. I don't think this is the last. I think we would love to have you back on, gosh, other elements of the game or just stuff going on in the golf world. As I said in our introduction, one of the most thoughtful people in the game. One of the most thoughtful people I know. It's really fun to cut it up with you.

Chris Wilson (1:16:24)
Well, I can't thank you guys enough. You guys have done an awesome job with your show. ⁓ Like you said, I've been a lifelong listener since it's been in existence. And any excuse I get to talk golf now for an extended period of time, I will take full advantage of. love to do it. I love to help and mentor younger players and talk to them about the game and kind of my path and in way that's humble, but also hopefully informative and educative and

You guys do an awesome job of that, you know, every single show you have. So I'd love to come back sometime and just really appreciate both of your friendships, what you're doing for the game of golf or amateur golf and ⁓ look forward to next time.

Matt Considine (1:17:06)
Thanks Chris. Thanks professor. And thanks everybody for listening. This show is nothing without you guys. So send us a note at thebagdrop at newclub.golf. Tell us what we should have grilled Chris on other than the things we did and give us some ideas for future topics and guests. Like we've gotten some really cool notes lately on different things that the professor and I frankly were already thinking about. And just to hear that you're enjoying the show and hear that you

Would like to have us cut up some other topics. It really energizes us, motivates us to, to keep things going. And thanks as always to our partner of this podcast. And that's Titleist with their all new GTS medals coming out soon. We'll, be able to share a lot more details from our fitting experience and just the new technology that the engineers at Titleist came up with for this one.

It's just a continuation, as the professor said, of how great they are at innovation and specifically the last five years of the Metalwood family with this new GTS line. We'll catch you guys on the next one.