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One of the greatest skills we can grow in as mentors has to do with our thought life. Will Dowell, the Executive Director of Behind Every Door, shares how his organization challenge narratives and lies about kids from hard places through the practice of believing the best.
Show Notes
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WELCOME
You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.
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SHOW NOTES
Behind Every Door seeks to transform poverty from the inside out through on-site programming and resource partnerships in underserved apartment communities.
- Visit their website at behindeverydoor.org
- Follow Behind Every Door on FB
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Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. We are so glad you're with us. My name is Steven, and Zachary Garza is laughing already
Speaker 3:That's right, baby.
Speaker 2:Before I've gotten to the joke.
Speaker 3:I'm here.
Speaker 2:We have Caroline Cash in the room as well. Hey, Cash. And our special guest today
Speaker 3:drum roll, please.
Speaker 1:Remember the one time I did that? Because my brain couldn't think of what a drum sounded like.
Speaker 2:Our special guest is Will Dowell. Yeah. Thank you. Oh. Whoo.
Speaker 2:You
Speaker 3:hear the stream? Will Dowell. Will Dowell. Man, this
Speaker 4:is I gotta come back more often.
Speaker 3:Yes. Amen. To our live
Speaker 1:audience, thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks for jumping
Speaker 2:on the podcast, man. We're glad you're here. Honored to
Speaker 4:be here.
Speaker 2:Zach, who is this guy?
Speaker 3:Will Dowell is his name, and he is the cofounder, executive director of Behind Every Door in Dallas. They're doing some amazing things really all over the city of Dallas. Just really working to create a community, create an environment where people are truly known. I'm gonna stop talking now and I'm gonna let Will tell us what he does because why not just go straight to the source?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That sounds great.
Speaker 3:So Will,
Speaker 2:what is behind every door?
Speaker 4:Yeah. I mean, Zach, I love what you said. Wanna create spaces where people can be fully known and fully loved. But, yeah, for the last 10 years, we've been working in communities where, there's a significant number of barriers standing between, people and possibility. Yeah.
Speaker 4:So those barriers could be crime, could be lack of, you know, good education standards, lack of food, joblessness. I mean, you go down the list. When you add it all up, the word that we typically use is poverty. But what it is is just an interconnected web of barriers that people face. And so, we operate community centers and neighborhoods where those barriers are more prevalent and we we want those community centers to really serve as a space where people can get, safety, access to resources to help people thrive, and then get into some kind, of a of an intimate relationship with Jesus.
Speaker 4:And, so and then we do three things really well. So we want to build deep long term relationships with people. We want to operate a kind of year round comprehensive program for kids and their families. Looks like an after school program typically. And then, we wanna leverage our relationships in the community and the space that we're operating, and our network in the larger city to bring in missing resources.
Speaker 2:Wow. I love that. So Will, really, I mean, we're in the mentoring sphere, mentoring kids from hard places. And one of the conversations we have consistently, in the office, which is ultimately we just had it one time. But what is what is your favorite movie that exemplifies what you love about mentoring?
Speaker 2:Is there a movie that comes to mind? And maybe you need to think about it, but we can even ask ask the room.
Speaker 1:I don't remember this conversation. Well,
Speaker 3:the 2 of us have it at least once a week because Steven wants to do a segment on the podcast to where we dissect mentoring movies.
Speaker 4:I think
Speaker 2:it would be very fascinating, and our listeners would enjoy it.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's a lot of movies out there that talk about mentoring, that talk about investing into the lives of, you know, people who have been given a hard hand. You know, like Good Will Hunting. You've got Finding Forester. You've got Wait.
Speaker 1:Wait. Don't take any of Will's.
Speaker 4:Go ahead. This is great. You're giving me ideas.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Good Will Hunting, Finding Forester. You've got Cinderella Man. Star Wars. You've got Star Wars.
Speaker 3:You've got The Road to Perdition. You've got, like, there are
Speaker 2:Is that the Tom Hanks movie?
Speaker 3:Yeah, man. Okay. All all about fathers. Just like the father wound is, like, woven all throughout.
Speaker 1:Legends of the fall. Legends.
Speaker 3:Oh, man. There's so many.
Speaker 1:That's my one.
Speaker 2:Does Shawshank redemption end up in there too?
Speaker 3:Shawshanks for sure because Andy Dufresne falls underneath Red, and Red shows him how to succeed.
Speaker 2:Of course.
Speaker 4:Is that cool? No.
Speaker 3:Such a good movie.
Speaker 2:Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Oh, yeah. I love movies. Well, it's like my
Speaker 4:favorite I know. This is awesome. Yeah. I I love movies. I've I'm I'm not sure that I'm as well versed.
Speaker 3:Oh, man. Yeah. Man, I just lose it. I was watching the movie, Big Fish.
Speaker 2:So He keeps talking about this movie. I've never seen it.
Speaker 3:Big Fish is such a good movie when it comes to the father son, because just watch it. Just
Speaker 1:So let's just like every week, one day in the afternoon,
Speaker 4:we just watch the movie
Speaker 3:and stuff. I ball at the end of Big Fish.
Speaker 4:I like I like how you still vote in there. Because Get
Speaker 2:it on the calendar.
Speaker 3:Because with Big Fish, there is this man's father. Sorry.
Speaker 1:I don't know
Speaker 4:anything about this movie.
Speaker 3:We're gonna have to
Speaker 1:We're not in this movie.
Speaker 2:Zach, we'll put it in the show notes. Okay? You don't have to describe the plot to us.
Speaker 3:No. No. No. No. The father fathers in one way.
Speaker 3:Alright? And the father's doing the best job that he possibly can. The son wants to be fathered in a totally different way, but his father doesn't have the tools to invest into him in that way.
Speaker 1:So you're talking about finding an email?
Speaker 3:Finding Nemo. That's
Speaker 2:what I that's literally
Speaker 3:what I
Speaker 2:was thinking about. That's a very good point.
Speaker 1:I know. Big fish is just Finding Nemo.
Speaker 4:Is it ironic? Is that what you're
Speaker 1:saying? Both about fish?
Speaker 4:That they're
Speaker 3:both about fishies? I don't know. Maybe it is. Oh my gosh. Lord.
Speaker 2:Wow. Okay. Well, so just happened. We're gonna put you on the spot. Sorry, Will.
Speaker 2:What movie comes to mind when you think about mentoring?
Speaker 4:Alright. So as you ask that question, I'm sitting here going, father, what movie? And out the first movie that came to my mind, and I'm gonna explain myself, is Moana. Oh. Moana.
Speaker 1:I am Moana.
Speaker 4:So at the end of the movie and it's not it's not necessarily father son, but it's the spirit of a father and Mhmm. Spirit of son, if
Speaker 2:you will. Absolutely. But
Speaker 4:at the end of the movie, I I come to tears almost every time, because when Moana realizes that the that the fire monster is is actually the again, we're not talking
Speaker 3:scripture here. Sure.
Speaker 4:It's the concept we're getting at. We totally
Speaker 3:get it.
Speaker 4:The fire monster is to feed or the or what? I don't even know the names. But she's the she's the god of creation.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:And Moana's like, wait. Your identity has been stolen, and I'm gonna give it back to you.
Speaker 3:And
Speaker 4:when I do, everything will be made right. And I can't help every time but going, that's the picture of of Jesus, you know, being a representative, a part of the father saying, here's your real identity, and then everything is restored. Yeah. And so I Wow. It's a random connection.
Speaker 4:It's the first movie that came to mind for that reason.
Speaker 3:So good. Moana. I can't imagine.
Speaker 2:I did not see that coming, but it's so good. Moana, a mentoring movie?
Speaker 4:For sure.
Speaker 2:It is now. Dude, everything
Speaker 3:can be a mentoring movie because
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 3:Everything's about relationships. Everything's about relationships.
Speaker 4:You're about to get challenged.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:Moulin Rouge.
Speaker 4:This face
Speaker 2:not probably not a good mentoring.
Speaker 3:Steven, you're not
Speaker 2:Maybe maybe as a negative example. Maybe as a negative example. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, all I'm saying is just, like, relationships change lives. The most important thing in the entire world, it's all about relationships. And the Lord loves to use relationships to tell a story.
Speaker 1:That's fair.
Speaker 3:And so often that story can point us back to something that he's trying to teach us. Come on, Zach. It's good. It's very good.
Speaker 2:Well, I I love having ministry leaders in the room to just kinda ask questions and hear more about the story behind your organization and the work that you're doing. So could you even just paint a picture of the behind every door story for us?
Speaker 4:Yeah. I mean, as Zach said, we believe there's a story behind every door, and so we wanna get to know every single story. So it's really important for us to knock on doors. So in the apartment communities where we work, we're quite literally knocking on doors there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a
Speaker 4:larger neighborhood. We're knocking on doors there. And, when we got started, there was a golf cart, bottles of water, and all of the fried food from the corner store.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 4:We drove around and, and asked people, hey. Will you tell me your story? And, you know, first first few people was awkward because if somebody came in to my front yard and I was sitting out there and said, hey. You told me your story. I wonder why they wanted to know my story.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So the first few people were really gracious and shared. And, and then I think just because we are like this is the way God created his people, we actually enjoy telling our stories. And so as we began to listen and people began to tell, more people began to tell, and what that led to, was a larger story of that community. And then we, wanted to work from that place to figure out, k. How do we respond to this?
Speaker 4:I mean, if I come in and say, hey. This community needs a computer lab, because then people can access jobs and write resumes. And then I listen to the community, and they say and this is this is actually what happened. They say, yeah. We just don't have anything for our kids to do.
Speaker 4:Basketball court is overrun with weeds. There's no goals. We just really wish our kids had something to do. And we spend resources and time to put in Computer Lab. We've not respected the community.
Speaker 4:We've not honored it. And we have done absolutely anything to help. And so, not to mention the community didn't ask for it. So now you have this resource, and now we're gonna have this, confrontational relationship where I'm saying, why don't you want this? It's a good thing.
Speaker 3:And the
Speaker 4:community is saying,
Speaker 3:I
Speaker 4:didn't ask for that, so I don't want it. We don't have that conversation. We just say, there's something wrong with you, to one another. And so for us, like, this behind every door, there's a story matters. And, we we that's how we operate.
Speaker 4:So, learning stories is key for us, and we do it over and over and over and over again. And, it's not just true, with residents and communities where we're working, but it's true with donors. It's true with partners. If we really wanna move forward together, we've gotta we gotta seek to understand one another.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Can you translate that to a mentor relationship of, And you you might think that the thing that you're wanting to offer is what is needed most, but they have completely different a completely different take on what they would like or desire from your investment. So could you could you unpack what that looks like in a mentor relationship?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Absolutely. So I think it's really easy to define anyone that we connect with by circumstances or actions or I think what we often do with one another is by our worst moments. Mhmm. And, maybe even we should add worse circumstances.
Speaker 4:Right? I think in those moments, we one of our values is we believe the best. We've got to believe the best about anyone that we're coming in contact with. And so as a mentor, when I think about people who have mentored me, they chose to believe the best about me. In my worst moments, in my best moments, in my moments of questioning, my moments of doubting.
Speaker 4:And so I've gotta be willing to do that for others. And and I think as we do believe the best, we gain a deeper understanding of the of the person that I'm walking alongside. What you know, in in the case of of, mentoring as you guys are talking about with a child, and I begin to understand that child's circumstances. What you know, what's going on at school? What's going on at home?
Speaker 4:Mhmm. What's going on in that child's mind because of the home and because of school or or because of friends or because of whatever. And through, an understanding, then for me, believing the best extends to believing who God says we are as individuals and who God says he is. So he says that we're beloved, children loved like we are, not like we're supposed to be. And who he says he is is that he's a good father that we can trust.
Speaker 4:And so if I if I take that with me into mentoring, and I can look at whoever I'm in front of and say, okay. God sees this person as a beloved child who's capable of incredible things. God ultimately wants them to prosper. And from that place, in those worst moments, those bad moments, those hard moments, those good moments, those beautiful moments, whatever they may be, to be able to see it rightly, that there's a good father who ultimately cares about this beloved child, and I, for whatever reason, have the honor of being able to be part of this story for a moment. I mean, I could keep going but that's
Speaker 2:how
Speaker 4:I see it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:What what it sounds like is that in a way, you have to get out of the way and realize that there's a bigger story at play that I mean, when when you're saying there is a father who cares and this is a child who is loved that the the mentor might insert himself in between and say, well, this is what it should look like or this is where it should should be going. But, ultimately, if a mentor captures that greater vision, ultimately, that will lead them to a place where they're not just inserting their own will and, yeah, directing the relationship in another way because they feel like that's their responsibility as a mentor.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Does that kinda connect with what you're saying?
Speaker 4:For sure. Yeah. I think I think it's it's both, taking on a role that God's not asking us to play. Mhmm. And I think it's, believing things, which well, I can say it like this.
Speaker 4:It's believing things about myself that God is not saying, or it's believing things about someone else that he's not saying. Let me go through 2 examples. Please. Because I think the role when I play the wrong role, there's 2 things going on. 1, I'm not being who God made me to be.
Speaker 4:And 2, I'm not doing what God asked me to do.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:And and those are those are connected. Right? It's identity and action. So, like, just as an example from scripture, think about Gideon. So this is an issue of identity.
Speaker 4:He is he's hiding threshing wheat in a winepress because he's afraid that that the the occupants of the land are gonna come take it from him. Mhmm. And the angel of the Lord shows up and says, get up mighty warrior. He's not mighty. He's a coward.
Speaker 4:Like, that's the truth of the moment is he's hiding. Yeah. And yet, God chooses to say, this is what I know to be true about you. And Gideon chooses in that moment to join his faith to what happens. And, obviously, there were there were the fleas on the ground and he questions and all of that, but, ultimately, he chooses to believe and and place his faith there.
Speaker 4:And so in that moment, as he steps into identity, it allows him to to then step forward and play the right, you know, role in the lives of others. Yeah. So I think identity is essential. And then I think when when that is straightened out, right, which that happens in an intimate place with Jesus. Intimacy with Jesus is the point.
Speaker 4:That's the we've gotta stay there. We gotta come back there. We have to go from there. We have to, and from that place then with others, you know, to answer the the other part of the question that you're asking is how do we how do I make sure that I'm playing the the the right role
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:As a mentor? You know, I think it's it's from that place of knowing that, you know, I am who God made me to be. I am a beloved child. And as I'm listening to his voice, being able to step in and be who God's asking me to be for whoever's in front of me in that moment. And so if it's the case of of of mentoring a child, being able to listen to that child, being able to listen to that child's family, being able to listen to to god the father, and then respond in in the ways that I think that are most aligned with his heart.
Speaker 4:And so I think there are gonna be moments where I get to get to play that role where you get to be representative of a good father, a good earthly father, much like there were, you know, men who weren't my dad in my life who played that role at times. And then there's gonna be moments where I'm just a good friend. And then there's gonna be moments where I'm just an encourager. And then there's gonna be moments where I'm a teacher. And then there's gonna be moments where I'm a student.
Speaker 4:And the truth of it is, if I if I if I don't believe that I'm gonna be the student at some point, I don't think I could be a mentor. Wow. Because because, ultimately, whoever I'm walking with is the expert of whatever they have going on in their life. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? That's really good.
Speaker 4:I'm not in their head or their heart. Yeah. So I've got to be a student, also. I don't I'm not sure. I hope I'm answering your question.
Speaker 3:It's great, Will. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to ask you, like, what are some I think we we say believing the best and it's we all kind of assume what that means. But what are some practical ways to actually believe the best? Like, how do you kind of go about that in relationships with someone you're mentoring or someone you're seeking to understand, you know, their situation, like all of those things, how are how do you actually practically go about believing the best? Great.
Speaker 4:That's a great question. 1 I mean, one thing that I do is I wanna rehearse what God has already said to be true, but just about his people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so, you know, that we're beloved, that we were created to rule, like, go Genesis 1 or 2, whenever he says that, that, you know, rule over the earth, subdue it, be fruitful, multiply. That was his intent in the beginning. That that we are we're worth dying for, that that we're deeply loved. I mean, all of these things, those are true. And if they're true for me, then they're true for each of you, and they're true for people driving by outright outside right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I think for me, I've got to rehearse that pretty regularly because it's if I'm honest, it's easy to forget. You know? Like, you get you get into it with somebody and, like, all I can see is what you've done wrong.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:And and we get into this this trick of of believing the worst. And and so what so what I mean by that is this. Like, if Zach and I get into it, there's a moment there where it doesn't matter what he says.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:I'm just gonna see it Mhmm. Through the angle because of of the worst, because it it affirms my narrative. I've been hurt. I've been wronged. You did this to me.
Speaker 4:And so I think I think for me, believing the best is confronting that reality too. And the way I can find it is by rehearsing the truth of what God has already said to be true. Mhmm. I think another practical way is seeking to understand. So, the well, here's another movie reference, Zach.
Speaker 4:I'm going I'm all over Disney today.
Speaker 3:Amen. The laughing kids, man.
Speaker 4:I got 3 kids. So
Speaker 3:Watching Disney 247. It's gotta be Cars. So
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4:It could it could be Cars. No. So it it's Aladdin. It so if you remember Aladdin at the beginning of the movie, he steals a piece of bread. And he's being chased and, you know, I I forget I actually don't remember exactly what's gonna happen.
Speaker 4:I haven't seen Aladdin in quite some time, but he was going to be severely punished for stealing the bread. Mhmm. But his circumstances were such that he doesn't he doesn't have any food. He's not maliciously trying to harm somebody by taking out bread. He's trying to eat.
Speaker 4:I'm not advocating stealing. Let's be clear about that. And once you understand the circumstances Yes. Your response will adjust. Right?
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:With him, he's just trying to eat. Like, he doesn't need to be chased and jailed because he stole the piece of bread. He's hungry. He needs to eat. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:There's another there's another response in that situation, that actually would bring about, you know, the best and right outcome for him, and for that community at large. And so I think for me, believing the best, practically speaking, is seeking to understand the circumstances, seeking to understand the mind, the heart, and all of the contributing factors because there have been numerous occasions for me where you you have a kid that will come in. I'm talking about my own kids at this point too. And they have a hard moment and they, you know my my son yells at his sister, or a kid comes in her after school program and and yells at a at another student. The first thing you wanna do is, like, hey.
Speaker 4:Stop. What's going on here? But seeking to understand and say, hey. Can we talk for a little bit? What's going on today?
Speaker 4:Is something happened at school or something happened at home? Did I say something? And then as you begin to unpack that going, okay, there's something much bigger going on here that is the root cause. And so my response needs to be adjusted accordingly. That's good.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I think those are the 2 that I would that I would say are practical ways to believe the best.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 4:But it's a it's a constant choice. Mhmm. It's not a I've got it and I move on. It's a it's a it's a rehearsing. It's a choice.
Speaker 2:I love that word. Yeah. Rehearse.
Speaker 3:For those of you guys who don't know just what their program's doing, I mean, they have 25, 26, 27 people on staff. They're serving hundreds of people every day. They are truly making a tremendous impact in the name of Jesus, in the city of Dallas. Mhmm. And one of your three core values, the things that you talk about probably every meeting, is believing the best.
Speaker 3:Tell me how that came to be so important to you.
Speaker 4:It's a great question, Zach. That in some ways, like, there's not enough time because it because it's totally tied to my own story. So if I fast forward some so I'll just say this, like, just the grace that I experienced. Because people and, ultimately, Jesus believe the best about me. That's I mean, that that's there's the fast version of my testimony if we went into it.
Speaker 4:You know, here's a story that that happened, and it'll highlight some of my story and some of how it it got tied into the organization. But we we had been in a community for about a year down in Southeast Oak Cliff. And in this particular community, we had an addiction recovery group that the men in Nehemiah, a a man who who worked with them, who lived in the community was leading. And so example where we have space, we have relationships. Hey.
Speaker 4:Y'all are the expert. Y'all do your thing. We'll just open the space to provide food. And so this guy would lead it. And I would go help open up and and attend.
Speaker 4:My my dad's an addict, so a recovering addict. But I would, I would go because it was just helpful to me. But at that point, my dad's addiction was was at its peak. And, just he he had lost everything that that that he cared about but was just too sick to care for. And and it and I'm sitting in this meeting, and there's a man named Cicero Jones.
Speaker 4:He was a covering crack crack addict who had lost his whole family and lost everything. And Cicero I was sitting there and I was like, Cicero is my dad without the history. Same circumstances, lost everything, same addiction. Yeah. And yet I'm not angry at him.
Speaker 4:And the only thing that was the difference was I didn't have history. And Cicero taught me how to forgive. And it was it was through seeking to understand Cicero, to to show him what I had been shown, the same grace, the same love, to be loved like I am, not like I'm supposed to be, that I began to realize that, like, Cicero is a wonderful man.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:He's sick. We're all sick in some way. And and his sickness has has led to where he this circumstances he's sitting in at that moment. But he taught me how to believe the best, and and for me, it it it just became something that kind of what I said earlier, just what I have received, I've got to pass on. So Jesus said it differently.
Speaker 4:You know, freely I've given, and now freely give. And, and so it it it's it's inextricably tied to who we are as an organization because I think it's inextricably tied to who we are as children of God. Yeah. He believes the best about us and and we, have an opportunity by his grace and the power of the Holy Spirit and his voice to believe the best about others. It's just essential.
Speaker 3:It's so hard to believe the best about people, especially when you've been especially when you have history with them. Right?
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 3:And I mean, like, whenever I hear you say that, like, you just wanna hear that you just wanna see people how the Lord sees them. Like, man, would that be all of our prayers every single day? Mhmm. Mhmm. With every single person that we come in that we come into contact with.
Speaker 3:That's right. It's just, Lord Jesus, help me see this person how you see them. Mhmm. Help me seek first to understand and help me take what you have given me, Lord. Grace and forgiveness and all of that good stuff that the Lord freely offers and got help allow me to give that to other people as well.
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 3:And, man, that It sounds so simple, but, man, it can change can change your perspective on everything that you deal with on a daily basis. Yeah. And it can change how you deal with people, which is a big deal.
Speaker 4:Yep. You know, I even as you're talking, Zach, and I said this, but I I just I I wanna highlight. You cannot believe the best about others if you don't believe the best about yourself Yeah. Because you can't give it. And I which that's another part of my journey is just accepting who God says that I am.
Speaker 4:And, if, you know, if I if I if ultimately I think, you know, that I am just not I'm just like a piece of trash who isn't gonna amount to anything. I'm gonna project that on other people.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:And somehow we gotta do some soul searching. And, and I've tried to do that continually just rehearsing who God says I am, because it allows me to say the same about somebody else. And then there's the nuances of it of seeking to understand, etcetera, but, yeah, we we have got to believe who God says we are, which is beloved children.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's who we are. I mean, kind of comes back to you can't give away what you yourself don't have. Right?
Speaker 4:That's true.
Speaker 3:As we get further on into learning how to best mentor kids, specifically kids from hard places, man, it what once started as, I'm gonna figure out a way to best mentor kids, has kinda gone to, I gotta figure out a way to understand how the Lord sees me and to really get right with the Lord and and and being able to receive from him so that I can pass it on to whoever I come into contact with, specifically these kids who I mentor. And so much of mentoring begins with you. It begins with your personal walk with Jesus Christ. It begins with you being proactive in dealing with your hurts and with your pains and with the things that the Holy Spirit says, hey hey, Zach. You you might wanna check how you responded to that comment.
Speaker 3:Right? And so when I first started mentoring, it was all about, I'm going to fix this kid. Mhmm. And now it's all about, man, Lord, I just I just need to get with you and I need to open myself up with humility to to the holy spirit and what he's trying to teach me. And I'm going to humbly walk alongside this kid and just be the conduit to whatever the Lord wants to do in his life.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. There's a huge difference there.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So
Speaker 2:What would you say to a mentor who hesitates on jumping in because they don't feel like they have what it takes? So I feel like as we talk about the preparation, I think we also need to talk about the hesitations.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So right when you said that the first thing that came to my mind, you know, what would I say to somebody who's hesitant, doesn't who's like, I don't think I get this. I'd say you're ready. Mhmm. And and the reason is is because of your hesitation.
Speaker 4:Right? Because you said it earlier, it's humility. Like, in that moment of, like, oh, gosh. I don't know what I'm doing. What's going on?
Speaker 4:I've never been in this environment. I don't understand. I'm I'm out. I'm outside my my, my normal circumstances. Great.
Speaker 4:Perfect. You're ready. Mhmm. Because because you you have a hard posture to learn Mhmm. And which is which is humility.
Speaker 4:And, so so then the next thing I would say is, so then take the step of faith. You're not alone. And, and and there's people to walk with. And and so just take the step of faith and and begin to ask those questions of of others who have gone before you and of others who are living in a place where you feel displaced, they're the expert. So let them be the expert.
Speaker 4:Let the person be the expert.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 4:And ask the questions. And don't be afraid to, to stumble, don't be afraid to fall, don't be afraid to offend. So long as you keep that humble posture
Speaker 3:of a
Speaker 4:heart willing to learn, you'll in the moment when you offend, you'll be able to say, oh, I'm so sorry. I did I did not wow. I didn't see that. I missed it. Versus if you don't have a heart to learn, you're gonna say, well, that that's no.
Speaker 4:I didn't say that. I that's not what I meant. Don't put words in my mouth. Hold on a second. Somebody just heard something.
Speaker 4:Acknowledge that they heard what they heard. Then you can work through, the intent of your heart, etcetera. But that person heard something, and you gotta deal with that first. And and I think that's, without without a humble posture willing to learn. Maybe maybe I'd flip that question and say to somebody who's like, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 4:I'd say, hey. You might wanna ask some questions of yourself first. Are you ready? Like, go call 4 Runner and and and find out if you're ready. And to somebody who's like, I can't do this.
Speaker 4:I'm not ready. Call 4 Runner and sign up because because you probably are. It doesn't mean that you have all the skills. It doesn't mean you're gonna do it perfectly. It just means that your heart's ready.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That's good.
Speaker 3:It's really good. Well, so, like, so the job of the enemy, right, who is alive and well, especially, whenever it comes to just the types of kids that we deal with. Right? Like, the enemy wants to disunify. The enemy wants to confuse.
Speaker 3:The enemy wants to pit us versus them. Right? The enemy wants to create an environment that is just offense is so quick to happen. And especially as, you know, our city specifically, man, it is so segregated in regards to just one type of person lives over here, the other type of person is over here. What are some things that you commonly see that the enemy wants to use to help us believe the worst?
Speaker 3:Specifically, talking about poverty, talking about race, and talking about, just totally different experiences.
Speaker 4:It's a good question. How does how does the enemy, get us to believe the worst?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:One thing is the the first thing that comes to my mind is is I think that there's this belief in our culture today that, that in order to be unified, we all have to believe, act, etcetera, the same. And the truth of it is that's called uniformity. And so in order to be unified, we actually need differences. I think the enemy has us way confused. And and so and so we end up, in the name of unity seeking uniformity.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:Which then and then we get frustrated and then it's like, hey, why are you trying to change me? Why, like, why do I have to do things your way? Why can't we do things my way? And you flip the whole thing on its head or actually just, like, there's a third way. Right?
Speaker 3:And I
Speaker 4:would say it's a kingdom way where God's principles and God's ways become, you know, the best way. Yeah. Which will which because he's brilliant and wise, his ways allow for for nuance and and different expressions and which, you know, can be socioeconomic, they can be ethnic, they can be education, they can be I mean, they can be spiritual gifts, like, down go down the list. We have nuance in the midst of all that. And so, I think the biggest thing that I see is just this belief that, like, we've gotta we've gotta be the same.
Speaker 4:You either need to become like me or I have to become like you in order for us to, be be connected and unified. And the truth is is, like, we actually just need to stay the way God made us and then seek to understand one another and then step in together. So that's the biggest lie that I see is is just this this deeper root issue that the devil has twisted this this idea in in my opinion. Yeah. That's how I see it.
Speaker 4:I mean, I think other ways that he gets us to believe the worst is is to not think critically. And what I mean by that is is not to be critical of others, but but to think, to to think. Mhmm. And so when the news projects a story that there's a shooting in an apartment complex, and we immediately say that's an unsafe place where dangerous people live and bad things happen. Have I ever been there?
Speaker 4:Do Do I know anyone who lives there? The answer is no, and that's a really bad conclusion. Yeah. I understand why we make it. We're trying to quickly place things in our mind.
Speaker 4:Like, there's all kinds of science behind why we do that. But, like, we've got to ask that question. I mean, I you know, I you just when you think about, like, divides in the church, I think about this often. You you've got, you know, churches one church saying negative things about another church or and it's it's it's under the table. It's quiet.
Speaker 4:We do it. We we don't project it. But, like, the question I've started to ask really of my own self when I do that also, I'll just well, keep it on me. When I think negative thoughts about other churches, I'll think, do I know the pastor there?
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Do I know people who go there? And the answer is no. I'm, like, I gotta put that thing away, and I better go do some investigating.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 4:Now how that shapes out, my response is gonna change. It's either gonna it's gonna change in some way. And so I think that's another thing that the enemy does is that he we're lazy. I'm not gonna look into this. I'm not gonna seek to understand.
Speaker 4:I'm not gonna ask questions. Yeah. So there's there's 2.
Speaker 2:And I I like how what we're talking about now connects with the the first thing we talked about, which was I have something I want to offer, but I'm not seeking out the needs of the people I'm trying to serve. And and that ultimately, when you, when you come to this place of bringing your assumptions into what unity looks like, that ultimately, we are trying to assimilate people into the way that we do life and thinking that this is success. Is your life looking like mine? Yep. You singing my songs.
Speaker 2:You not raising your hands and jumping while we worship. You fill in the blank, like and and how yeah. The beautiful thing about God's plan is bringing all of these different people, backgrounds, experiences, ethnicities, ways of doing life, and he's honoring it. Mhmm. He's saying I want to personally honor every single contribution and every single experience.
Speaker 3:And I
Speaker 2:think that's a really beautiful thing.
Speaker 3:One thing that I hear so often from people who are hesitant about mentoring is, I just I'm so different, and I don't have anything to offer this kid. I don't have anything to bring to the table. And everything that I hear us talking about today is actually no. No. No.
Speaker 3:That's actually not true. You as your own unique self, with your own story, with your own background, with your own way of doing life, like, that is what qualifies you to mentor. One of our most successful pairs is this guy named Bill. And Bill's in his fifties, and he's from, he's from I think he's from Alabama. He's like a 6 foot 5 bald white man who doesn't have anything in common with the kid that he mentors.
Speaker 3:The kid who he mentors, he's from Africa and he's 13, and they don't have anything in common. But Bill listens to Abrema, and Bill enters into his world by asking questions. He doesn't force him to just become something that he's not, and he doesn't try to fix them. And whenever I put the 2 together, I was terrified because I'm like, man, Lord, like, you've got to step in here, Lord, because this doesn't look like it's going to work out. But it did because Bill listened.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Because Bill asked questions, because he was humble and selfless, and because he wanted to become the expert on a brima. Yep. And that's all it takes, man. And know this, my beloved brothers, let us be quick to listen, right?
Speaker 3:Slow to speak. There's just so much power in that.
Speaker 4:You know, something that as both of you have shared, even with that story, because this affirms it. When I think about if I had to wrap kind of that up into a thought, I'd I'd say, like, everybody has something to offer. Yeah. And you asked earlier about believing the worst. I think another lie that the enemy plants is that I have something to offer to everyone else who doesn't have anything to offer back.
Speaker 4:Yep. We would never verbalize it like that. And if we do soul searching, we may not even be able to get to that point. But I think if I could really spend time like, there are moments where I think, like, I've got the answer and the rest of you don't.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:But the truth of it is is that in the kingdom, like, it scripture that, you know, he
Speaker 3:he gives gifts to to each of us.
Speaker 4:Every everybody has has been given something. And so the the kingdom principle is that everybody has something to offer. Yeah. And and if I believe that that that's not true and I don't do the soul searching in my heart to confront the the the untruth that other people don't have things to offer, then I will enter into spaces with that unwillingness to listen, to understand, to ask questions, and the wrong role of I'm here to save the day. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Versus, hey, I'm here. I'm here, you know, from a place of obedience and I'm here to learn from you and to walk alongside together because we're both trying to get to the same place.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:So I think it's just essential what you guys are saying to, to believing that people have something to offer.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. When it comes to when when you experience a crisis or a traumatic event, something goes down at the apartment complex you're serving, I I wanted to hear what it looks like for your organization to engage all of those things. I I wondered if you could share a little bit about how how you guys have grown in engaging in empathy of the communities that you serve.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, we just did this, like a month ago with the little 9 year old girl who was shot and killed, in a community here in Dallas. And it doesn't the sting is real every time. I think because we are in communities more there all the time and we have deep relationships and deep roots. In many ways, we just respond as part of the community. And so for us, I guess, practically speaking, we wanna we wanna be present with people and wrap our arms around people and have them wrap their arms around us.
Speaker 4:And that's we do that immediately. I think something that that we has become very important to us is to control the narrative. The narrative that typically goes out in the situations is dangerous environment, bad people, bad things. And that's just not true. If if there's a shooting in Plano, Highland Park, Uptown, go find an affluent community.
Speaker 4:It would be isolated to the individual. But when you go into neighborhoods that have many of the barriers that we we talked about earlier, that that come with poverty. For whatever reason, we make that incident a definition of the entire community.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's convicting.
Speaker 4:And so, for us, one of the most practical things we do with the shooting is to confront that narrative and to control it and to say, if, you know, the new screws come, great. Kia on our team, I heard title's actually director of changing the narrative. And she has a number of responsibilities. She's kind of a through line through the whole organization. How do we confront the narrative in the minds of our donors, the minds of our partners, the public at large, the organization, staff, and then ultimately even the kids and the families that we're working with.
Speaker 4:Like we're confronting the narrative in all of those minds. And Kia really oversees that. So she would be the one who would speak to the news and that would be obviously a public facing one. But if we don't confront it, then people watch the story and they're like, oh, that's a bad community. That's dangerous.
Speaker 4:It's not. It's a wonderful community where people, want to live in in a safe environment and raise their kids to to grow up and thrive. That's what they want. That's what everybody wants. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So, I don't know. I I'm I could camp there for a while. I think it's really, really, really important, because that narrative that goes through affects everybody I named earlier down to the person living in that community, who then takes on that. People who work in that community, the public at large, people who who are in philanthropy, like we all take on that idea.
Speaker 4:And so, yeah, that's a big one. But but you know, aside from that, I mean, it's just wrapping our arms
Speaker 3:around people and having them wrap
Speaker 4:their arms around us. And so you do the same thing you would do for your own family. So we have, you know, you have a you have a a gathering and you and you grieve together, you you eat together, you remember together. And those are the things that we, that we have done. I wanna I wanna be family and I wanna do family and do exactly what I would do because that's who we are.
Speaker 4:Yeah. In this in this moment.
Speaker 2:As ministry leaders, leading organizations, there's there's a lot of opportunity to miss it, but to recorrect
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And to learn from your mistakes. And so could you share anything with our mentors that would be helpful for them to learn from your mistakes so they wouldn't make?
Speaker 4:I think one mistake that gets made often is just this belief that I have something to offer and you don't. And it it shapes how I how I treat you. And so, just learning from from that place of failure in my own life, when you're in a relationship where somebody has I have to remember this, but somebody has agreed to let you speak into their life, which is that's a privilege. Yeah. That when when we fail by believing things that are not true about others, own it.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. It like, if it's about relationships, which, Zach, you said that earlier, and I agree with you, then honor the fact that this is a relationship and treat it with the same respect and honor that you would treat any other relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's really good.
Speaker 4:Which is to say, hey. I I messed up. You know what? Mhmm. I I've been thinking this, and you probably felt it.
Speaker 4:And, I'm sorry. And that's hard to do. It's hard. I I struggle doing it with my own kids, with my own wife. I think it'd be safe to say that most people in the world, struggle to say, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:Will you forgive me? For x, y, z.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:I also think it's one of the things that leads to breakthrough in relationships. Right.
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 4:think about a woman on our team who she and I are very good friends. And this was about 6 years ago and I I said something to her that was deeply offensive to her and was not the intent of my heart, but it was deeply offensive to her. And, so she just said, hey. I'm deeply offended. And we went to lunch and we began to talk through it.
Speaker 4:And I I I remember making this conscious decision to just own it and not explain it. And, it shaped our relationship, and it and it has led to so many moments of breakthrough in my own heart of confronting the mess inside me. And I think if if she was sitting here, she would say, yeah. I've had to do the same thing with in my own heart. And I so I feel like we both ended up, you know, there's this relationship.
Speaker 4:We've both mentored each other. And to be fair, we're peers. We're not it's not a adult child relationship. Although I think adult child relationships, you can mentor each other in that too. But, yeah, that that's I think that's a big thing for me in a place where I failed and then just said, you know what?
Speaker 4:I'm just gonna I I gotta own this thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that's a great point that intention is different than the impact Mhmm. Of the things that we say. That's right. And so acknowledging that is I mean, what you said, owning it is a hard thing to do.
Speaker 2:Yep. But are we willing to not just justify what we said because of our intent? Are we willing to seek forgiveness for the impact that our words had or our actions had? I think it's huge.
Speaker 3:That's right. And, I mean, for those of you guys out there who are married, like, you love your spouse so much, but there might not be anyone on the face of the planet that you have more conflict with. But that's how it works. It's like the deeper you go into relationship, the more conflict you're going to have. But what an awesome invitation to become more like Jesus.
Speaker 3:Right? And what an awesome opportunity to learn how to forgive and to learn how to own your stuff and to learn how to listen and to learn how to see other perspectives. Saying, I'm sorry, will you forgive me? It's totally different than I'm sorry, but Right. I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have spoken to me like that.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, but you should have been more respectful. I'm sorry, but you should have showed up on time like you said you were going to. And then I wouldn't have had to yell at you. Right? But, like, but, man, like, well, I think one thing that I have found true whenever I spend time with the kids who are a part of our program is when you humble yourself and apologize, truly apologize, breakthrough happens.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:The Lord loves that because the Lord loves humility more than almost anything else. Because you're saying, man, I have screwed up and I'm going low and I'm gonna ask you to forgive my actions. There's power in that, man. There's so much power.
Speaker 4:This is it while you guys are talking, this has hit me. This this phrase, see if I can even get it out because it's a bit of a processing out loud. But that I've got to be willing to own my impact regardless of my intent. And I've gotta be willing to pursue your intent regardless of your impact.
Speaker 3:That's good.
Speaker 4:And I've gotta believe and hope that you'll do the same for me. Yep. Right? And when we and when we do that for one another, then when I own my impact, you will have pursued my intent. My fear is that you won't.
Speaker 4:Right? And even if you don't, in faith, I've got to say, okay, Lord. I'm gonna do my part. And then the the reverse is true too. And so, if we if we want if we want anybody else to live that way, we've got to do it first.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And it's only through into a place with Jesus that I can do that. It's the only place I get the strength to step through in faith in those moments and and say, nope. I'm owning my impact. You can have my intent.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And I am going to ask questions and seek to understand your intent in spite of, regardless of your impact. The holy spirit does that. He he empowers us to do that. And, yeah, I think that's how that's how I wanna live.
Speaker 4:That if I had to define believe the best, that's how I define it.
Speaker 2:So It's really good. Wow.
Speaker 3:It's great.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Will, for being on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For real. Thank you.
Speaker 4:So honored to get to hang out with y'all.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to the You Can Mentor podcast. So great getting to hear from Will Dow, from behind every door. Please check our show notes to see how you can connect more with their organization and what they're doing in Dallas. Their vision is to see the fullness of the kingdom of God, transform lives in underserved communities and neighborhoods. So if there's anything that was interesting in this podcast that you want to steal from us, please do.
Speaker 2:We would love if you tagged us, but, but just steal it. That's great. Yeah. We understand your intent. We don't have to do anything.
Speaker 2:Your actions. Yeah. But, yeah, if if you're, I mean, if you didn't pick up anything for this podcast, just let it be this. You can mentor.
Speaker 3:You can mentor.