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Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift.
The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life.
Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space.
With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as one of New York City’s top trainers and a thought leader in the health and wellness industry. After transforming his life at 15 years old through fitness, Kenny made it his mission to transform the lives of those around him.
Kenny has trained some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Jon Bon Jovi, Liev Schreiber, and Frank Ocean, and has been tapped as a fitness expert sharing his training approach with Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Runner's World, SHAPE, Well+Good, among other publications.
Kenny is the creator of STRONG New York, NYC's only Health and Fitness Expo. Strong New York is an immersive day of workouts, wellness experiences, panel discussions, and inspiring conversations with the best in-class wellness professionals, industry leaders, and change makers who are sharing their expertise on today's hottest wellness trends and first-hand experiences on how to optimize your overall health and life.
You can find Kenny at The Strength Club, his private training and group strength training facility in the heart of Manhattan located on 28th and 5th Ave in New York City.
All right, we're back with another episode of the Strong New York podcast. I'm your host, Kenny Santucci, and if you haven't like subscribed or share with a friend, get on that because you're slacking. Uh, as always, this podcast is powered by Celsius. My favorite drink is now a sponsor of our podcast, so grab yourself a can and live fit today.
We have a very fit man. He's been in the game a very long time, has created a company that I'm sure everyone out there has heard of and has taken it to all new levels. And we're gonna dive into his story right now. But without further ado, Carl Diler. Nice to meet you, Kenny. The owner, co-owner. Founder.
Co-founder of Of Bo? Yeah. Of Bo. Yeah. Which used to be. Beachbody. That's right. And that's what I think most of you guys might remember from, um, you started, you said you started in 98. Yeah, that's, well, we, uh, we raised the money and had the idea in 1998 and our first sale was literally may. 1999 of a, of a great abs guaranteed video.
So what gave you this idea? I mean, what's your background? Where'd this well, where'd the idea come from? Um, you know, um, I was in direct marketing infomercials specifically, and fitness was always a very reliable category to develop products and put 'em on infomercials and, uh, um, but I had never developed a product.
Um, up to that point. I was working for a little startup and my partner was like, we really need something in fitness. And I was like, well, I have this idea in the back of my head because I don't like to work out. Mm-hmm. And, uh, but I felt fat. I just felt gross, you know, post-college kind of thing. And I said, I said, a friend of mine was doing this thing, these 10 minute ab workouts, like abs of steel and uh, but you, you don't know that they're only 10 minutes.
It's a full hour video with a bunch of 10 minute workouts on it. And I was like, so I think they sort of missed it. So I've got this idea for eight minute abs. So let's produce that. And we did eight minute abs, eight minute buns, eight minute thigh, eight minute stretch, eight minute arms, and uh, did a little two minute commercial and sold like 2 million copies of this thing.
Holy shit. On tv shit. Yeah. So I said to him, I'm like, well, that was easy. Well, what was the landscape of some of the other stuff that you were selling on some of these infomercials? Um, we, we had some fun stuff. We had the Instant Flower Garden, which was a roll of hay with impregnated with seeds, and you roll it out and water it and flowers would come up.
And uh, we had this little encyclopedia set. We had a book called Grandmother's Kitchen Wisdom. Yeah. We had a book called The Secrets of Blackjack. But like all the, but like, as far as like other fitness stuff that you said were selling really well. Yeah, well, well at the time Total Gym was really big. I was gonna say, 'cause that's what I remember.
I remember like, uh, was the. What was his name? Uh, Tony Little. Tony Little. Yes. He had the Gazelle. The Gazelle, yes. Right. So I remember the Gazelle, I remember the Total Gym. I remember Bodied by Jake had all his product. Okay. So this is perfect. 'cause now you understand the premise of the business. Yeah, yeah.
Literally I said, so I was doing some work with other direct marketing companies after I, I left that company. 'cause I was like, there's, there's something to this content idea mm-hmm. That is super efficient. And um, and I was watching what was happening in the infomercial space and it was like every year you get a Thigh master thing Yeah.
And all these stuff. And I'm like, I'm never gonna buy that. That's not working. Uhhuh, you know, nobody's sweating. They're all smiling. And, and I said to my partner, I'm like, look, infomercials can be a powerful way to communicate and, and market. Imagine if it was legit rather than something that just looks stupid.
Mm-hmm. And it's gonna take up space. It's gonna end up in your yard sale in two years. So, so I said, I, I said if. I said, I don't have a workout regimen that I follow, and I want something that's like, I don't wanna think about the rest of my life. I wanna think about day one to day done. Mm-hmm. Okay. Day 90.
And so, so I said, I, I, and if, if we can create something legitimate that you look at it and like, oh, that's, that's hard. I'll do that. I bet you there's a million people like me who are not being convinced by these gadgets. Mm-hmm. And we go, well, that looks legit. 30 day money back guarantee. I'll give that a shot.
And that was literally the premise of the business, to take this powerful marketing and sales channel and make it legitimate so that people got real results. And that rather than put celebrities in front of it, we just literally would do a test group, get 50 people ripped, and, uh. That became what was known as Beachbody and now Body.
Wow. So Impress. Yeah. We got 140 of these programs now. Yeah. Like we've just been iterating and just, yeah. Alright. What else do we need? What else? What else would appeal to people? What problem can we solve? So take me, because then you, you started to have, I mean, a lot of these like celebrity trainers start to pop up the Tony Hortons, the Billy Blanks, like this start that, that was in and around that same time that these guys started to really blow up.
And I know these guys have empires now because of these videos. Yeah. So how'd that kind of affect a lot of, like what you were doing at the time? Well, um, I mean we, we, we helped birth Tony. Mm-hmm. I mean, Tony was incredible talent. Um, who's an LA trainer? Funny guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he was training like Billy Idol and um, uh.
Bruce Springsteen, like he had these wild clients. Yeah. But, um, and, and he was just super funny. Mm-hmm. But also a very good trainer. So we helped him package that into ideas that we had. That would be something that would literally, again, what I wasn't trying to do was create something like, you're gonna do this the rest of your life.
If you've got a short term goal, weddings coming up, reunion, um, you know, a vacation, or you just had a baby, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get you back to where you want and then you wanna go to the gym, however you wanna do the rest of your life, fine. But in those 90 days, I'm gonna get you reset. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so that, that's, that's what we went about.
And we would curate talent based on the problem we were trying to solve. Billy Blanks, you know, with Ty Bow was an incredible success. And you got Richard Simmons doing sweating to the oldies like you, so you got these people who were creating genre. Selling them in infomercials. That was really working.
Our specific space though was I'm not happy with where I'm today. I want to get somewhere on a fast track. Mm-hmm. Step by step, be my personal trainer versus piece of equipment that you're just gonna step on or thing you're gonna squeeze between your thighs and, uh, and that, that has iterated now for over 25 years.
It's impressive because at the time I was getting into the gym, I was really heavy as a kid when I got to high school around 96, 97. I started to read magazines and books and see a lot of the infomercials on television. Mm-hmm. And there was, uh, Gollard who was doing the workout videos on tv. Yeah. I was obviously gravitated more towards like the Stallone and the Schwartzenegger and all that stuff, um, and whatever they were doing, putting out books, the Arnold Encyclopedia, all that stuff.
Yeah. Um, but I was also buying a lot of this junk. Mm. Right. Like the, the ab wheel. Right. The blue one with the thing on it. Yeah. I had that. I had the AB roller. AB roller. Right. Um, there was, uh, my uncle had the Total Gym, so I loved using that. And that's, um, Chuck Norris. Yep. Um, Ricky Brinkley. Chrissy Brinkley.
Yeah. So you had like, you had a lot of celebrity getting into this. Did you ever think like, Hey, when you started this, you were like, maybe we could do better if we had a celebrity? Like, why'd you even stay away from the celebrity talent? Because, uh, because at the time, like first we were a startup, we didn't have any money.
Yeah. So, um, so we said. But I also suspected that, you know, look, I'm not. I, if I'm looking at the infomercial landscape and having had been in it for eight years at that point mm-hmm. Which early in the infomercial game, uh, you were just finding a celebrity and putting them in front of it. It was not authentic.
So I'm like, look what people are buying. The, the celebrity will stop the channel surfer. Mm-hmm. But the celebrity ultimately is not really going to convince you that that thing worked. 'cause you know that they're on, they're, they're there for the paycheck. So I said, if, if, so our job is to create absolute proof that the thing works with and, and real people.
So that's one of the things I think that, um, body pioneered, particularly with P 90 x mm-hmm. Is bringing sort of. A reality show into the infomercial where we had people, in fact, P 90 X didn't work outta the gate. It was a failure in 2005, and it really took two years of gathering crazy, enthusiastic testimonials from people that would send in their videos.
Mm-hmm. We would send 'em this little camera. This was before the iPhone, and we had this little handheld camera that we'd send them and we'd say, tell us your story. And they would shoot this thing, and of course. The video was trash. Like it was like, you know, they're in the bottom of it and there's big, you know, they got all this, this hutch with their Smurfs and stuff in the back home.
And so you're watching this with these ripped people out on the farm. Yeah. And you're like, there's no way that's fake. Nobody would put video on tv. That's that ugly shit. Yeah. If it was created. Right. And it, and it was so convincing and it was legit. And that's how it just started. That wheel started to spin and compound.
So 2005, 2006, I got on television. And one of the things that had got passed around amongst most of the guys afterwards was my buddy had the DVDs. Mm-hmm. The P 90 X DVDs. Yeah. And he's like, dude, this is what I did to train for the show. So we all had them. Yeah. And we were all training from this. And I think that was the birth of like.
Workouts being, uh, you know, beneficial if they were hard. Yeah. Like you had to do this hard workout. Mm-hmm. And I think what a lot of people didn't realize is that the diet side of that Right. All the, the information because it came with that pamphlet. That's right. So I think a lot of people were like, oh, if I just do that workout and I could skip the diet part, it's like, no, you have to do both.
Yeah. Well that's, look, we called it the last hurrah. I was turning 40. Mm-hmm. And I'd never really had like abs. Um, and so I'd gotten in shape with our programs. Mm-hmm. But I'd never been like that ripped. Cover immense fitness, like I'm sure you are all the time. So I wish, well, so, so I was like, if, if I could dial this in, and in fact, when I pitched the idea to Tony Horton and I was like, how'd you meet him?
Um, he was a friend of a friend and, uh, and I needed to train. I one of the, and, and so we got, I had just moved to LA and he, and he was like, sure, I'll, I'll train you. And he was about to go do, uh, a movie. So we sort of, we sort of wrote down and I, I said, here's the way I like to train. There was a thing I did in high school, which was a really fast circuit and you don't take any breaks and you can get that thing done in like 25 minutes.
I was like, I really liked that. And we combined it with a cardio thing. He went away for 90 days. He came back after shooting this movie and I was in decent shape. He's like, what'd you do? I said, I just did what we talked about. Yeah. And uh, and I said, now I. Let's take that and let's make videos with it.
Mm-hmm. He's like, what do you wanna call it? And I was like, I was like, I don't know. And I, and it was interesting 'cause the premise was life, everybody's busy, everybody's too busy, they're going as hard as they can, but you gotta find a way to make a sliver of time if you want any transformation. I had rode in college and Did you ever row by?
I love that. Okay, so, so there's a thing like the whole boat is pulling that or as hard as they can and you're cramping and it's brutal and uh, you're soaked. And then the coxin will say, alright, everybody, we're gonna do a power 20 in 5, 4, 3, 2. Like, wait, I'm already at my highest level. But then the whole boat does this, 20 strokes, and you can just feel the boat lift outta the water.
Yeah. So I said. That's what I want. My whole life is packed, but I gotta find a way to do a Power 90. So that was the essence. That was the beginning of Power 90. And I got in shape with that. And, and, and then I said to Tony, look, we got all these customers, like a million customers doing this thing, let's create the next thing for them.
Mm-hmm. And I want that to be Power 90 Extreme. And he said, no, I don't wanna do that. I wanna go help more people. Obesity problem, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, I'm gonna do this with somebody. I would love it if it was you. He said, okay. So Power 90 Extreme was just an ugly name, so we made it P 90 x. And people in the company are like, that's a terrible name.
Nobody knows what the hell that means. And uh, sure enough, now it's in the frigging zeitgeist. It's incredible. It's wild. And it's, and you know, it's funny, to your point though, that you're gonna say like, we would do focus groups. We, we put the infomercial in the air and uh, price point was all over the place.
And my premise was like, like the industry was telling us you can't charge. Over a hundred dollars for DVDs. Like that's what you go, you go to Blockbuster, you go to the supermarket, they're there for 9 99. Yeah, I was gonna say. Right? And uh, and I was like, well, we're not selling DVDs. What I'm selling is I'm selling a Boflex for a hundred bucks.
'cause we've got the same if not better, more reliable result results than that infomercial. Mm-hmm. But you gotta spend $1,500 for it. And they were doing a billion dollars a year. So I said, that's what we're gonna do. So we found the price point, like with all this testing 120 bucks, but in focus groups, like, you know, you'd have a room full of guys and they'd be like, yeah, but they had to eat something special.
They had to do something special with their diet. And we were like, well, there's a whole nutrition plan that goes with the program. And they were like, well you didn't say that in the infomercial. So we re-edited it and did all that stuff and then all of a sudden the thing took off. How many renditions, how many different versions of the 22, 22 different 22 different versions.
And we'd focus group and like some of that's just price point testing. Mm-hmm. But then as these. Wild. Like how did she get these results? Kind of Testimonials were coming in. Yeah. People weeping and stuff. Then the infomercial, you know, it became, it. I, I would literally overhear, I'd be at a restaurant and overhear people talking about P 90 x.
I'm like, wow, that's awesome. Is that the best feeling? So I ask people this all the time. So a couple years ago I'm at a restaurant with my mom and she's like, Ken, look at his shirt. And he had a strong New York shirt on and I'm like, it's just such a cool feeling. Obviously it's not like I've arrived moment, but it's somebody I didn't know had one of my shirts on.
Yeah, that's cool. I. When, so at that point right now, you, you sold 2 million copies of this thing, so you, you got a boatload of money and at that time, right? You've made a, what? 10 million off? Are you talking about eight minute abs time or are you talking about p 90 x time? The, the first Oh, well eight minute abs.
Yeah. Uh, it wasn't, that wasn't that much 'cause we're just selling it for 20 bucks. Okay. But, um, but P 90 x what did that mean? P 90 X was our first like billion dollar brand. Like, yeah. So, so holy shit. Oh yeah. It, it, it went, you know, for a long time and plus, you know, you had all this piracy and stuff like that thing was just everywhere and we took that money and we just reinvested it.
Do more programs, do more. Like that's why we have 140 of them. I've taken very little money off the table with this company. Even taking it public. I didn't take any money off the table. 'cause, 'cause. Wow. In my, my perspective, like I wanted to, like, I've done okay. I've, yeah. Was I say you live a good life.
Yeah. Live a great life. Yeah. But, um, but I'm not a yacht guy. Like I'm not a mansion guy. Yeah. Yeah. What I wanna do is build this company to satisfy what they call the total addressable market and this major problem of 180 million people walking around overweight or obese who hate working out as much as I do.
Yeah. So that's what we're Where do you, where do you think that comes from? What, why do you think people find it so hard to exercise or find a routine that they like? Um, it's a great question because you know that, you know the problem, you know your life is gonna be enhanced by it. But, but we more and more now that, now that survival is not a question, right.
We got food, we got a roof over our heads, we're gonna be okay. Mm-hmm. So, so you don't have to. You're not constantly sharpening your blades to survive. Mm-hmm. And, um, and then, you know, as much as great as technology is, it's really only layered on more stress, more expectation of productivity. So, uh, and, and so like whatever gratification you get, you gotta squeeze it into whatever time you have left between family and work.
Mm-hmm. So the thing that keeps getting edged out time-wise is this painful thing mm-hmm. Of working out. And, um, and, and so now we're like having to have these big discussions and podcasts about trying to convince people to survive. Right. And to, Hey, wouldn't you, wouldn't you like to continue walking unassisted in your eighties and nineties?
Wouldn't that be neat? And people are like, well, yeah, maybe, but I gotta scroll right now. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna binge watch this and, and I'm going to eat this whole cake 'cause it makes me feel good. And then I'm gonna go back to my shitty job that I hate. So it's just like, it's a tough thing. Yeah. But. If you can start to, and this is what we try to do, if you can start to show people how colorful and beautiful life can be, if you just tweak a few things like literal, tiny tweaks.
Mm-hmm. Now what I'm not saying is just walk 20 minutes. No. You gotta lift something hard. You have to do something in that 20 minutes to 30 minutes. Make it hurt, man. Yeah. And then the other 23 and a half hours are gonna be fucking awesome. Am I allowed to say it? Yeah, of course. Okay. It's, it's gonna be awesome.
Yeah. The rest of the day because of that ability to walk through a crucible of pain for 20 to 30 minutes. And, but once and once people discover that it's hard to go back, but it's hard to get 'em to discover it because we're just like, this is cozy. Mm-hmm. I could lay down a nap right now. Yeah. Um, and people just want, and I have a, a shirt, uh, that a buddy of mine made Comfort is a slow death.
You know, and the more Yes. The comfort crisis. Yeah. And the more comfortable we get Yeah. The, the harder it is. And now even with AI and all these things, it's like, it's making things more almost so comfortable that like, we're edging ourselves out of life. What's our role on this planet anymore? Yeah. We have no purpose anymore.
Right. Yeah. Um, that's depressing. Oops, sorry. And, and I say that all the time. I say people without purpose are the ones who are the most depressed and sad and totally, you know, and now you get into this dark hole. And, and I think a lot of it gets started with, we, I had a buddy on the other day, and I, he works out at like 5:00 AM.
And we were talking about that. I go, people who start their day at 5:00 AM tend to be more successful than anybody else because they, it's almost like there's a couple switches that go off in your head where you're like, well, life is short. I need, I need to start my day with this. 'cause this is gonna ultimately enhance everything else.
Mm-hmm. And I need to be as productive as possible. Whereas other people who kind of wake up when they want you kind of sleep the day away, you're missing everything. And I, I, I think people start to realize how precious and start to lose that idea how precious life is. Well, let's unpack that a little bit.
Okay. Because I don't necessarily think that's the cause and effect. I got up at 5:00 AM to work out, so I'm more successful mm-hmm. Than the average. Yeah. I think really if you look behind that, peel that. That truth off that statement. And what you see underneath it is somebody who just says, I'm gonna fucking own my life.
Mm-hmm. That's the difference. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna get outta bed and not be a slave to this comfort, and I'm gonna create something like, look as a CEO of a company that has had a very rough ride as a public company. Mm-hmm. Um, it would be very easy for me to seek comfort and, and just try to navigate through.
Or worse say, you know what? This, this just doesn't work. And, uh, instead, man, put me in the discomfort. Put me deep in it, drive those nails into my fingers, and I'm gonna fucking make this work. Well, where, where do you think you get that grit from? Because you, you, like you said, you never really took a lot of money off the table.
Yeah. Most people, I think growing up like. If you would ask me, oh, if you have 10 million in the bank, you could back off and you'd be done. And I'm like, now I'm at the point where I'm like, if I had 150 million in the bank, I'd be like, I still want to do something. I still wanna work. I still want to, yeah.
But there's a lot of people who don't feel that way. There's a lot of people who kind of take a backseat and are like, I got enough money, I'm cool. Yeah. You know? But then you see a lot of people who are very successful, who have billions of dollars and they still challenge themselves every day and they do the hard thing that needs to be done.
You know, I can't speak for those guys. For me, um, I'm a creator and a problem solver at heart. Like that's, um, that's my primary. Driver. Um, like when I went to school, I thought I was gonna go into sports broadcasting. Mm-hmm. Like, I saw the Olympics. I'm like, I wanna be a part of that. And I actually had got this really great job as the, so I'm 21 years old and I got this job producing the halftime for National Telecasts of Army, Navy, or Air Force Game of the Week.
Okay. So I'm producing the halftime, like the package and in the truck calling it roll the tape, da da da. 21-year-old. A 21-year-old. Yeah. And, uh, I remember the first halftime that I produced was for a game between Syracuse and West Point. And I'm in the truck and they're like, let the kid do it, you know, here, here I go and I call it in and I cue the announcer.
I give them the little script. Oh, the whole thing's going on. And you know, a big question was, would I, what they call hit the post? Meaning, you know, there's a certain minute that I, or second that I've gotta be out of this package, out of this little interview so that they can go to commercial and then.
Go to the second half. And, uh, first time I hit the post and everybody's like, ah, they're high fiving me. And I walk out of the truck and the teams are on the field and the crowd's roaring and everything. And I was like, no, this is empty. Yeah. And, uh, 'cause I wasn't solving a problem and I wasn't really creating, I was creating in the moment, but I was like, ah, I just don't care that much.
And which was crazy because I had just spent the last four years thinking that this is the direction that I'm gonna go. Mm-hmm. Uh, but then once I started to solve problems and using my creativity and to some degree my theatrical background to create media that would have this profound effect on people, that's been pretty mind blowing.
So I just, so now I gravitate to that and, uh, and that's what, that's my wealth when I can see that a little idea or. Culling together a few little observations into a thing that can solve a problem that, that's my yacht. So, I mean, I, I'm kind of in the same boat as you actually, not being in a boat, because I, when I think of owning all this shit, I'm just like, I don't want all this shit.
I don't need a mansion. Like I, I have a one bedroom apartment, you know, I don't have a fancy car. I don't plan to ever own a home. 'cause I don't, we have a very nice living room. This is, this is, this is as nice as we get. But no, I, I, I think a lot of people are stuck on this idea that they have to have all this shit.
Yeah. Because that spells success for them. For me, it was never that. And you know, we have a pretty big event that we do every year called Strong New York. We're the only health and wellness expo in the tri-state area. And everybody's like, oh, so does it do well? I go, it does it right. But I dump everything back into the business.
Yeah. So that I can make it bigger, so I can have a bigger impact. So I can make more people. You know, wanna work out and have a good time. But for you, it's like, what was your, what was your passion toward, because you have to have some passion towards the fitness industry that you've kind of continued with this for so long.
Like, what was your, I mean, did you, did you play sports? Did you work out and like Yeah. I, you know, was it just a vanity play that you're like, I just want to have ads? Yeah. Uh, no. Um, no, it was, uh, I, I was always very mediocre at sports. Mm-hmm. Good enough to make the team not good enough to start really.
Okay. Um. To some degree, but, you know, I was also, you know, my family grew up at this musical theater playhouse outside of Philadelphia. And so that was my thing. But I, I, I like to water ski. I like to barefoot. I like, so I like to be able to do these things and I, I needed to have some level of fitness to do it.
So I would do it in Spurs. I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna go on a two week vacation. I'm gonna water ski every day. I'm gonna go, my hands are gonna be bloody and raw. I better train so that I can get the, the most out of it. So, so I would have this sort of fits and starts, right? Um, and then as I would age, you know, as it does, it creeps up on you.
You're drinking more beer with your friends or your Monday night football, whatever's going on, and it's like, Hey, I'm. I'm chubby now. Like I'm normally I'd be like 150 pounds something and I'm pushing 180 5. What's the deal? Yeah. And, uh, so I would just have to dial it in. And then I saw that effect that, that could have on people when we produced these things.
And I'm like, Hey, I can put this together now. What I'm not is like you, I'm not a, I'm not a fitness expert. I'm not gonna show people how, what the right squat position or how to do a Turkish getup or whatever. Mm-hmm. But I'm gonna package it in a way. That is so interesting and has such comradery on set or a personality that's either, either somebody who's your best friend or polarizing and you hate him so much that it pushes you harder to work out whatever it's gonna be.
I'm gonna create a theatrical event on that screen. Mm-hmm. So that you do it now, I'll hire the talent that's gonna help you do it the right way, but I'm gonna package it in a way that will work for me and to get me to do it. Like we did this program called Six Weeks of the work with a, a incredible trainer, a Wallace Caesar.
Uh, he trains Julius Randall now. Um, and uh, and I said, look, I want something that, that. Because, because he's got a great personality. I was like, I want you to train, just like you do in the gym. I want you to drop the F-bomb. I want you to say whatever you want. You can be as mean as you want to your cast, but you're trying to motivate them.
Mm-hmm. And so we have a explicit version and a clean version. I was talking to this guy the other day, a billionaire, right? He can afford any. Trainer that he wants, he can fly him around with him. And he literally just does six weeks of the work, the explicit version over and over again. He's like, done it, it 21 times.
'cause he just, he's like, feels like they're his friends and it makes him pissed off and he, when they say, ah, fuck you, he says, I'll fuck you back. So it's just like, that's what I do. Yeah. And, uh, so, so, uh, you know, there's a lot of things I can't do, but this one particularly, I put together teams of people that create content that, um, is, is a next level up.
It's plused. What would you say is your gift? Like what, what, what do you lend to the company that's really made it as special as it was? Mm. I've had, okay. That's a great question because I haven't thought about it that much. But I would say that, um, I have had the ability to be day one for myself in everything I look at.
So, so where you can get. Um, used to your business or used to the model, or used to the way you put your product out? I'm never really done. So, so the machine's always gathering information. Mm-hmm. Going, oh, that, that could be really interesting over here. Change this, tweak that. Yeah. So, so it's just, you know, and that it's funny, we, we were working on a thing.
Uh, we created a program called Job One with Jennifer Jacobs. She's a former Peloton person. I know Jen. Okay. We used to work together on ladder. Okay. There you go. She actually recruited me. She came to my old gym Yeah. And came to my gym and she's like, you'd be perfect on Peloton. You should come do it.
Mm-hmm. And I go, I don't really ride bikes. Yeah. But she's great. I love her. Yeah. Uh, and that's a great app. We've been friends. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. They crush it. I mean, yeah. So, so I had an idea for something that like, could we give people a good workout in just 20 minutes? Mm-hmm. And, uh, which is ridiculous.
This is like. 19 years into running the business and she's creating this program and we're refining it so that the workout is really good in 20 minutes and doesn't blow your brains. Like you're not, you could, you can't sprint for 20 minutes. So it's gotta be well put together. And I remember talking to my board and I'm like, I don't know what took me so long, but this thing's gonna be a winner.
And sure enough, people love it. 'cause it's just like, oh yeah, I'll, I'll wake up if and, and put on the shoes and drink the pre-workout if I know it's just gonna be 20 minutes. And so, so you know, those ideas are still coming. We got one coming this summer called 25 minute speed train, which is lifting a little heavier, but, but I also took like the, what happens is.
You, you know, people as they're trying to do more and make it more original, they start to put all these compound moves together. Once you do compound moves, it gets very difficult to cue that. Mm-hmm. And make the workout tight. So I said, look, like I love these workouts. They're great functional movements.
Awesome, but I need one for me, I need one straightforward. I don't want to have to do a bunch of choreography with this compound movement. So for 25 minutes, just ring me out. And, uh, it's this 25 minute speed train again. It's just like, oh my God. Well why didn't I think of that before? 'cause this is an approach to lifting really.
That's mm-hmm. That's muscle memory kicks in and, and, uh, so anyway, it's, it's fun to recreate and spin the Rubik's cube and go, oh, we got the colors to line up in a different way this time. I know there's probably a lot of trainers out there who are thinking like, oh man, I'd love to meet Carl because. I'd love to pitch 'em on I idea.
Has anybody ever come to you and said, Hey, I got this really great concept mm-hmm. For a workout plan, I want to get it on Beachbody, and then what does that deal look like? How do you, how do you break up the deal, if you don't mind me asking, like No, it's fine. The business side of it's, yeah. I, you know, they're all different.
But, um, I would say that probably the, the only two situations, there's only two situations, um, where there was an idea that was brought in outside. So, uh, but I, I've, I've never had somebody who just came in cold with a pitch. Really? Really? Yeah. Um, I find that surprising. Yeah. But, but the, and maybe it, it's probably self-fulfilling 'cause I don't have a shortage of ideas.
Mm-hmm. Or observations. Um, but, you know, it was funny. I can remember I. I forget, I wanna say maybe it was c Carmen Electra or somebody. There was somebody on like MTV cribs and she showed her videotape collection and she had all of our videos that we produced a date. And the one she pulls out was this video called Yoga Booty Ballet.
And I'm like, what the hell is that? And it turned and then later that day I was literally driving by the yoga, booty ballet gym. So I walked in and we started the conversation. We produced an infomercial around yoga, booty ballet, so that was one that we sourced outside. Mm-hmm. Shalene Johnson, who was a prolific trainer, um, a powerhouse personality, had created these, um, this uh, gym certification business where she would train people in a thing called Turbo Jam.
And, uh, and we created that, repackaged it. Then UL ultimately made an extreme version called Turbo Fire that was sort of punching and kicking. Sort of cheerleader dancer type. 'cause she was a former cheerleader. Mm-hmm. And wildly successful. And then, and she, she brought in, 'cause she had multiple brands that she was, had put in the gyms and we repackaged them for a video.
Now, while I, what I would say though, uh, from an observation is the, there's one trainer that has been sort of unstoppable inside of our ecosystem, and her name's Autumn Calabrese. She created a program, well I had an idea for, I wanted something that was just three weeks. Mm-hmm. I'm like, I need to tuneup three weeks, seven days a week, no days off for three weeks.
Right. And, uh, nutrition plan, that, that would, I had this idea that, that if I could just, if I only ate what can fit in this bowl, I'll lose weight. I. Well, she and the team expanded that to basically being a containerized portion control program so that you're That's great. Getting your macros right.
Mm-hmm. So you don't have to count points and count calories and stuff. It's like, I'm gonna have a green of this, fill the fats and a red of this and a blue of these fats and so on, right? Yeah. And uh, and that became this program, 21 Day Fix. That's great. Blockbuster, absolute game changer for the company in like 2014.
But to your point, trainers bringing ideas. She was unstoppable. Like we would just be finishing a program and she's already, I'm getting emails, Hey, I got this idea, or I got, I've had a gut issue and I'm doing some research and gut health is a real thing, so I want to create a whole program. And then literally the day she's done that, it's like, uh, my hormones are outta whack.
I'm up, I'm in mid forties. I don't know what's going on. And I've got, I've got an idea for how to help women balance their hormones. Like she, she, of, of everybody that we've worked with has been the most prolific with ideas that were timely. Mm-hmm. If not, perhaps three or four months, a little late. How, how old of a woman is she now?
I'm guessing she's mid forties, 44, 45. Um, has anything been as successful as P 90 x? Um, I would say come close to it. I would say the three biggest ones. P 90 x insanity San. And, but that was Tony 21 Day Fix. No Insanity was Sean t Sean t Okay. That, yeah. Which is a great story. This is a great story. Okay. So we had produced a program, sorry, this will be a little bit long story.
I'm try to cut it down. So, so once Power 90 worked with Tony mm-hmm. To your earlier point, I'm like, what if I put a really well known trainer in front of the same kind of idea? Yeah. So we found Kathy Smith, we hired her, and we did a thing called Project You. And, uh, created a 90 day or a 12 week program with her.
And, uh, eh, you know, it was okay. It, it wasn't, it wasn't as, um, visceral and sharp edged as Tony's was, but in the development of that, Kathy Wood, when she wasn't available to teach a class, she would bring this guy in. I think he was training in Equinox, Sean t and he would run the class and the place would be packed and people are having fun and sweaty.
And, uh, one of my development executives, I think, I think it was Lara, Lara Ross, she said, we gotta develop something around this guy. And I was like, well, I wanna do a full program that's about abs that makes getting your abs ripped fun. And so Sean developed a thing called Hip Hop Abs. Okay. And, uh, and the funny, funny side story, like when you know that something's going to your t-shirt story earlier.
Yeah. Chris Pratt walks out on the Tonight Show one night, and, uh, and I, I don't know if it was Leno, I forget who the host was at the time, but, uh, he's like, ah, you look great Chris. What's going on? He's like, hip hop abs literally puts the video on the desk. No what? And I'm like, what is happening right now?
So anyway, must he sold a hundred copies that night, at least. Maybe like we, you know, it, it's, it's out there. It doesn't hurt. Yeah, that's for sure. But like, was that the, uh, was that the year it came out or was it later on? No, that was like right after it came out. Like, oh, it was like, you know, that's great.
Probably four or five months. Yeah. That's crazy. Crazy. That's great marketing. Yeah. So, um, but the funny part of how this relates to insanity, so Sean is my fun hip hop dance guy. 'cause he is a professional dancer. And I had this idea, I was like, because P 90 X was so successful, I'm like, okay, that was great for lifting.
I want something that from a cardio perspective. Remember I said P 90 X is both flex, right? Mm-hmm. So I want a treadmill. Better than a treadmill with just workouts. Mm-hmm. Cardio killer. And I want this thing to be like, I'll, I, like you can only have this if you have what it takes to do this program. And I want to call it insanity.
And again, I was working with Lara and she, and she's like, well, why don't we have Sean tread? I'm like, no, no, no, not my dance guy. We gotta get somebody who's hardcore. And she's like, no, no, no, you need to let Sean do it. So Sean did a screen test and he had two people with him. So he's in the front, he's got the two people in the back.
And, uh, there was just like a 15 minute thing and he just goes, balls to the wall all out. And the two people, after about 10 minutes, they both quit. In fact, the, the guy just, he was like drinking this water and he throws it against the walks. He's pissed that he couldn't keep up. And Sean's like, I don't know about y'all, but I'm gonna keep finishing this.
And he just finished, he just goes for it. And it's like. I will just watch the star emerge. Yeah. And, uh, so sure enough, insanity just took over and like, wow. Straight up. And uh, you know, we created different versions of it. Insanity Asylum, asylum two with a little bit of lifting in there. And then ultimately Sean just finished, he's done a total body recomposition, decided to body build and did a dig deeper program last year, which has been phenomenally successful.
So each, all of these evolve, but it's, it's a pretty funny story how we got to insanity, but Sean brought it to life. So you guys were a billion dollar company by when? Um, I think we were like in the nine hundreds in 2016. No, no, no, no. In 2014. 2015 broke a billion. 2016 over a billion and then it, things started to change.
Um, we went digital. Very different model than selling DVDs. Mm-hmm. Um, you were still selling DVDs? Yeah, we were, we were like both VHS tapes. We were like, the last ones the, remember technicolor, who would do all our duplication, we're like, how you guys still selling all these VHS tapes? And the reason was when DVD players came in, people would put the DVD player in the living room and take the VHS player and put it in wherever they do their workouts.
So they were still buying VHS tapes, shit. Um, then we sort of had this crossover and people were still buying DVDs. Mm-hmm. But then we watched Netflix coming and we're like, Hey, that we've got this big library. Let's be the Netflix of fitness. And so we created that sub subscription model in 2016. But it's a very, very different, um.
Value proposition. People expect a much different experience and, and price point. And it took a long time for us to figure, I would say we're, we're still figuring out how to sell digital versus A DVD. Um, and, uh, and the infomercial went away, which had been our very reliable means of delivering a message.
So now, you know, on meta or, or TikTok, oh, we got 15 seconds to tell the story where I used to have a half hour to, to show you why this will work. Nothing else dive deeper into like what you guys are trying to do. Yeah. So now I'm doing podcasts, right? So, but, so, so, so this has been a, a slide that, that. You know, we had like two, two years of like, wait, what's going on here?
And we had a network marketing model that had done very well and was expanding really well with the support of tv. And we're like, scratching our head like, what's going on with the business model? Maybe the products we're developing aren't that compelling, da da da. And then, um, the pandemic happened.
Mm-hmm. And it exploded again. Like every line that had been going, like this went and, and it's happening for every, it's probably one of the best things that happened to you guys. Well, yes and no in the last couple of years. Yes and no. Uh, um, certainly it, it brought a lot of attention and legitimacy to, in-home fitness.
You had the Pelotons tonals mirrors growing because the game went to the home because a lot of those brands weren't doing well right before the pandemic. Right. It was 2018. 2019. I remember talking to somebody at Tonal. I. Because I got recruited for that. I was talking to somebody at Peloton and they were all kind of hurting right before the pandemic.
I don't know about Peloton. 'cause they had a great business model where they kept raising money and were acquiring customers at a very high rate. Then they went public. They got sort of, I think they got a little bit lucky that, that they went public and the pandemic happened. Mm-hmm. Which sort of created all this demand that, and now they're not.
Well it's tough. It's, it is tough for the whole in-home fitness segment because the infomercial's gone, which is where you used to have a real conversation with somebody when they would give your product a shot. And uh, and so if you sort of look at the whole macro picture, um, in-home fitness does not have a platform.
That's an easy story to tell. And you've got all these free workouts on YouTube. Right. And, um, but, but here's what we know the biggest. Impediment or obstacle to people working out is time. Mm-hmm. And, uh, is it actually though? Oh yeah, for sure. Like, you think, well, I, there there's always the imp I think that's the excuse is time, I think for su, but that's why it always gets marginalized.
Mm-hmm. Because, ah, shit, I didn't have time today. Mm-hmm. There's absolutely, I'll speak firsthand. I will fight with myself for 45 minutes, whether I'm gonna put the sneakers and shorts on Yeah. Yeah. Or not. And then ultimately I lost my time. But, um, but I, for me, and I think for the majority of people who are in this predicament or what they call the obesity trend or, or dealing with trying to lose weight.
If, if your problem is time and the big derailer is time. Mm-hmm. If I can spend 10, 15 minutes driving to the gym, find a parking lot, get walked past this counter where I feel judged every time I feel it, and then I know I got another five minutes to get back dressed, get back in the car, and go home. That 30 to 40 minutes just wiped out the real time I have to work out.
Mm-hmm. So if I can do it in 20 to 30 minutes at home, I know that there's a hundred, 150 million people who are just waiting for the right message. Okay. To connect with their inner conversation. And so that's why you asked me, you know, why not just take your money and like, I gotta solve that problem.
Yeah. I gotta figure how do we help people and, and creating a community is a big part of it. Feel like they're a part of something that's gonna be meaningful to their life, that's gonna extend their life by. 10 or 15 years, or certainly extend their quality of life by 20. Mm-hmm. And, uh, but, but it's still, people are still trying to figure it out.
I think we are in a better position than most because content is the most agile thing. And, uh, while we're very different than the content of maybe an Apple Fitness Plus or a Peloton, which is all these workouts every day, just come on and jump in. Um, I'm like, Hey, I'm going to day one to day done. Is it 21 days?
Is it eight weeks? Is it 90 days? What is your horizon? We'll figure out the rest of your life after that, but let's get you results in this period of time. And, uh, that's why I think we really have a good shot to make it through this dislocation that happened in 2021, uh, and come out with a very, very powerful business model.
Yeah. I mean, I mean, you guys have been doing it for so long. Obviously the company's had incredible success. But the landscape has changed. And what I admire about your business is you were able to adapt and rebrand. Where did that, when did it become from Beachbody to body and like why the change and like where do you see this, how do you see this evolving?
That's a good question. Um, so within the pandemic period, body positivity really became a thing. And there was a company in the UK that had used the term Beachbody in their advertising, and they just, they just, everybody puked on it. They were like, you know, don't judge us, blah, blah, blah. Beachbody fitness shouldn't just be about the ideal or the vanity metrics.
And, uh, so like I said, I sort of gather observations, right? One day I was working on an infomercial at my house and, um, just reviewing it and my kid was looking over my shoulder. And I'm thinking, my son, I'm like, what message is he getting? What do I do? And I was just like, you know, it was beach body, abs and thighs.
And, and I was like, I know. It's about more than that. Mm-hmm. It's about helping you avoid the consequences of type two diabetes or full on diabetes. I know. It's about improving your metrics so that you don't, so that you're less likely to have heart disease. The number one killer, uh, I know it's about extending your quality of life, but he's not getting that over my shoulder.
Mm-hmm. And, uh, we, we own an acronym, Beachbody on Demand Interactive and, uh, or Body, BODI. And we had the URLA four letter, URL. And so these observations came together and I was like, I would like to expand what this company means and stop contributing to something that we call the imperfection economy that.
Says you're, you're, you're never good enough. You can be leaner, you can be stronger. Your muscles, your biceps can be bigger, blah, blah, blah. Uh, what I wanted to instead do is create something that would give people a higher self-esteem if they just show up one day and then start to stack little wins together.
And if I could maybe take that pressure off and I got the body positivity movement and the, you know, playing in the back of my head, we could again, the whole goal help a hundred million people. Mm-hmm. So we changed the name to body, which was very in, I think to this day, still has many people, particularly in the business community, scratching their heads.
But, um, even when I've thought about maybe we should go back. I just can't do it. First off body, it's beautiful. Like it's just a beautiful four letter lockup. Mm-hmm. That from a creative perspective is like you could do a lot more. That really plays much better than Beachbody. Beachbody feels old and feels nineties and, uh, or, or early two thousands.
This is a company that cares about my wellbeing and, uh, so we stay with it and, and, uh, navigate through it and try to help people understand that it's still, Hey, you can still get the abs, you know, and you can still be motivated by it. I sure am. But there's also something like when we put it started to put primal moves in there, like, you know.
Animal flow. Yeah, animal flows so that all your joints are becoming opened up and lubricating and like, wait a minute, my quality of life's going up with this company too. It's not just blowing my brains out with insanity. And uh, that's been exceptionally rewarding. And thanks to people like you, I can have a platform to tell that story.
Yeah. So people are like, who's the idiot that changed this name? 'cause Beachbody was so gratifying. I completely agree with you that, that, I don't know why it feels that way, but like when you hear Beachbody, I think nineties kind of Yeah. Outdated. Yeah. And body seems more wellness, right? Mm-hmm. And I think that's where we're all kind of gravitating towards like, how do I live a better life?
Yeah. It's not so much about the vanity play as much anymore. Well have 'em both like, like we created this shake, it's called Shakeology. And uh, I'm not trying to pitch huge, but I'm just trying to tell a story. Well, huge. Only ever sold inside a network marketing business. And we sold a billion servings of this shake, never on a retail shelf.
Okay. Holy shit. Now why? How can that work inside of a ecosystem called Beachbody? 'cause it was not a weight loss shake, even though it could help you curb your cravings and satisfy your, uh, uh, improve your digestion. And, and what, so that would be weight loss, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but ultimately people can feel the difference when you give them more than protein and a balance of nutrients and super foods that, fiber all that, right?
Fiber, macro prebiotics, probiotics, and, uh, that shake, which is like, I drink it. Every single morning have, so for 18, no 15 years, every morning for 15 years. Um, and I can feel the difference. Like if I find myself on a trip and I didn't have it, and I go to one of these others that are cheaper, it's like, man, it felt like I was drinking water.
It's so thin, but man, I have that shake. That product needs to live inside an ecosystem that's about more than abs. Mm-hmm. So as the, as the society's evolved, we've watched, I mean, at the time you guys didn't really have that much competition. Now there's YouTube and Instagram and Netflix and Apple tv and all these things.
Mm-hmm. What have you felt has made the biggest impact on your business? Like other competitors? Or is it social media or has it not affected it? No, no, it's, it, the answer's I think, very obvious, but I'll answer the first part of it. The presumption free workouts on YouTube. There's been information you talked about Arnold's books or whatever, like men's fitness people, people were trying to cobble together solutions for themselves for years.
Mm-hmm. Um, and that, that always takes a bite out of you. But it can also be an of us, it can also be an on-ramp. 'cause people are like, gosh, I did these three or four workouts on YouTube that everybody was talking about, but I don't know if it's working. Like they might have a cortisol response so they actually retain more water when they start lifting.
Mm-hmm. They feel like they're gaining weight or their pants are tighter and they're like, I can't trust this. What they know from body is, we tested this shit, like we put 50 people through this and we would not be marketing it if it, like, we've killed four projects that the results weren't there. We tried to go too short, or we tried to make it too easy or whatever.
Kill it. It's not gonna work. So we didn't, so, so they know that if we market it, it had to deliver whatever results were promised for that program. But the thing that really has changed the game is GLP one glides. Really? Now it's not because, you know, maybe, I don't know, 12 million, 13 million people are using them.
Maybe it's up to 15 by now. So it's not. Helping 180 million people. No, but what it's done is it's told the 180 million people, the cavalry's coming, there's gonna be a pill or a shot that you can use, so don't bother, enjoy your tv. Sleep in, there's gonna be a pill coming, some at some point, your health insurance gonna cover it, blah, blah, blah.
And so just that, just hearing that even if they're not using it, they're fine not doing it. But what they don't realize is now they need to use it more than use it even more like, like there is no pill that's gonna help you continue to walk when you're 70. I had a guy come to my gym yesterday. Um, who is in the development of drugs like this.
Um, he came to my gym 'cause he's like, I've been following you on social media. I love what you're doing. I've had multiple doctors on the podcast talk about the importance of exercise alongside these drugs. Uh, there are other drugs in development that he was telling me about to help retain muscle tissue.
He goes, but the one thing we realized, and this guy's a science, like he works on the drug side of it. Mm-hmm. He's like, the one thing we realized is that it needs to go hand in hand with exercise. He's like, so I really, he wanted to take me to dinner tonight. I'm actually going to, uh, the Navy Seal, uh, foundation dinner.
I, otherwise I'd be going to dinner with this guy. And he was talking about, he's like, I wanna just pick your brain on what you think this exercise regimen should look like and how do we help people understand that you can't just take this drug? Yeah. It has to coens, it has to live alongside some sort of exercise regimen.
Now you look incredible. You're in great shape. Thanks. What does your exercise regimen look like? Like what are you doing? Um, uh, so I'm 61. Mm-hmm. And, uh, if I hold up pictures of me at 35 when I took my first before. Mm-hmm. And now I'm in better shape now and I know that in terms of range of motion, I'm in way better shape.
And that's because I literally just work inside our catalog. You spent the last 30 years of your life exercise? Well, kind of, yeah. But I, I fall off and then I'm like, oh, you pig. Yeah. Like, you know, I've got my own internal voice just like everybody does. And I'm like, how can you be running this company and be such a slob?
Yeah. So, so either so that. But I take advantage of that and go, what do I need? Mm-hmm. Right now. So I realized a couple years ago I was particularly, I was in decent shape, but I, my range of motion was really suffering and I wanted more of these primal moves. And I have a hard time like doing yoga. So I talked to one of our trainers, Elise, Joan, and I said, here's what I would love.
I'd like to take your incredible expertise in yoga. Mm-hmm. And fuse it with primal moves. And I want 'em to be just 20 minutes and that's gonna speak to me. So this was like my program last summer, and for eight weeks I just did that. And man pain in my shoulder and my knees and my ankles that were interfering with my workout regimen.
She got 'em solved and then now you, you ask, you know, how am I in decent shape at 61? Um, I have started to make it a habit to always have a workout buddy. So I've got this like big text community, um, like that I keep in touch with, like there's 4,000 people in this community. Mm-hmm. And I'll be like, okay, for the next month I wanna work out with somebody.
We're not gonna have to do the same thing, but like in June, I'm gonna do 25 minute speed train. So I'll send a text out to those 4,000 people. Tell me what you wanna achieve in this eight weeks and we're gonna keep each other. On track. And so, so like right now I've got a woman who's doing this, doing the Bell Vial Hormone health program.
And she and I are text buddies every day. And, uh, I know that Sunday's her tough day, so Saturday and I'm like, I'm counting on you to see this through on Sunday. And, and then she's like, all right then, well, let me see what your workout's gonna be Sunday. So, you know, we're talking shit. And, and, uh, she lost 14 pounds in her first week doing this program.
And, and I've stayed tight, you know, and so it's just, honestly, all I'm doing is sitting in the ecosystem that we created and trusting it. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and working with this community now, one of the things that we did when we took the multi-level marketing business out, because we saw that that was starting to create a weird dynamic of, uh.
A bit of haves and haves nots. So we had, we had people who were haves have nots who were making incredible money, but we could tell that it was getting a turning to be about the money and not about the money, not about the work. And we weren't bringing enough new people. So we said, because it turned out we did some research and there's like 90% of the population wants nothing to do with an MLM.
I'm like, well, that's standing in the way of helping the 180 million people. Mm-hmm. So we had to unwind that. Um, and since then, this community has come back together and said, that's right. We want to be about consistency in health. And so literally, even if they threw me out as CEO, I'd be angry for a few days, but then I'd go back in because this community and its focus and the execution of the content and the simplicity of the nutrition plans, that's my thing.
And it works. So your North Star has kind of been what's kept, you kept the business afloat, right? You, your, your messaging has always been the same. I just wanna help as many people as I possibly can. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's so important because I think a lot of people lose track of why they start it and what the purpose is.
And is there a good enough goal in mind? Like, is the, is the path righteous? I always tell people my initial plan was to always, it was a vanity play. I, I just wanted to look better. But when I made it no longer about the vanity play and it was. One, to set an example for other people. Two, to stay consistent and accountable.
'cause I talk about that all the time. Mm-hmm. You know, I can't three to never be a hypocrite. I can't tell you to get up every morning and go to the gym when I'm not doing it myself. Yeah. I would never ask any of my coaches be at the gym by five o'clock if I couldn't do it myself. Right. I think that's so important to have that like North Star that kind of guides you and the business and everything else.
And I, it's, it's so impressive. That's your integrity Yeah. With what you do. And, um, as people like you that inspire me, like, oh wait, I can't be, uh, I can't lead this parade if I'm not marching in step. Yeah. Like, I can't just direct them from the sidelines. I gotta be part of it and I'm a human being too.
And quite honestly, I want it. Mm-hmm. Like, I, you know what, you know what's funny? I, I, sorry for this quick story. I met with, um. The folks running Boflex before, like it was right before we really took off. And uh, I walked in and I remember the guy sitting there. I don't, he wasn't the CEOI can't remember what his role was, marketing something.
And he was smoking a cigar and he was a pretty big guy. And I was like, wow, he's not, he, he doesn't believe in his product. And that left a real mark on me. Mm-hmm. Like, I need to believe in my product and if I don't believe in it, I have no business marketing it. Well, you, you are the representation of what the brand is all about.
Right? Like, I wouldn't, if you came in here and you were outta shape and old and I'd be like. The fuck you bitch slapped me, right? Yeah. I would just be, you know, kind of turned off at the, to the whole idea. I'm like, how the fuck's this guy run a billion dollar Yeah. Fitness in, uh, business and he, he really doesn't live what the shit he's talking.
Yeah. So I think it's so important to live, you have to be the brand I. Right. And the brand kind of, you know, if you're not using your product, I always say it's like I wouldn't, I don't wanna sell anything that I'm not using. I always think about when I'm creating an event or creating a a, a workout program, I'm always like, what would I want out of this?
Yeah. And I think the two things that have always helped me were, one, I always need somebody as well. I don't like working out alone. So I go, all right, whether they're working out with a trainer or they're working out with somebody else in class, everyone always works out with somebody else. Interesting.
Keeps you accountable and consistent. Mm-hmm. And then the other thing is, well, I want to, I want to get results, right? Like, there has to be some results driven, so I can't give you a bunch of shit that I just think is cool, or I saw on social media. It's like, what really works? And I've always kind of stuck to those two things.
It's like, how do I create, create community? How do I give them real results, get the muscle build, you know, build whatever result they want out of it. Um, so that, yeah, I, I think that's what's always kind of, I, I would never say like, oh, I've, I've never had that moment where I looked at the bank account and been like, holy shit, we've done it.
Mm-hmm. I've never had that. I've never had that moment either. No, nah. Really Never, um, never felt 'cause it, because that was not the metric. Like I've been like, I can remember being like, wait a minute, what? We did over a billion dollars. Mm-hmm. What? Because when we started it, uh, the fantasy was how could we get over a hundred million in sales?
Mm-hmm. Because I had worked for some infomercial company that got to a hundred million really fast. Like, okay, we just sell a product that's cost about a a hundred dollars. Mm-hmm. We need to get a million people to do it. Alright, let's go for it. And then, you know, for that pretty daunting task. Yeah.
Daunting, right? How that got up to 1.3 billion was a pretty wild ride. But, um, but, but, and, and I think again, part of it is, is how different I am than you. Um, and I don't think everybody's the way, wired the way I am, but I don't want any witnesses. I cannot work out with a buddy. Really. I need an accountability partner that'll text me and be like, Hey, are you outta bed?
What's happening? Yeah. Or that I'll catch it. What are you eating? Blah, blah, blah. But like. I don't want, I like, if, if I go to the hotel gym, I want it to be when nobody else is in really, I don't want anybody judging how I'm Oh, where, look at where he put the pin in the stack. I just can't handle it. Like, it's just like, I'll go, just go do, I'm gonna do pushups and squat jumps in my room.
Do you ever, do you ever use any like commercial gyms? Like, do you ever go to any commercial gyms or like any like group studios? No. I mean, LA's like a. It's a hub. Yeah. There's a ton of 'em. Um, I, you know, I used to, but then I would, I would hate it 'cause I always just, I never felt welcome there. Yeah. It's so, it, it's incredible.
Like, what do we have 300 million people in the, in the country? And, you know, I follow obviously certain demographics of people, so I've always like kind of seen the CrossFit side and the, the global gym, the bodybuilding side and stuff. And there's a whole demographic of people who love at-home workouts, the Pelotons and things like that.
Like these people, you see 'em at a CrossFit and you're like, they're running around together and they're spreading everybody spread their shirt off and shit. Yeah. And I'm like, wow. Could not really, I just, just not, oh, see I drank that fucking Kool-Aid for a long time. Good for you. I still, I still love it.
Um, no, I mean, where do you think, you know, I, I'd love to get your perspective on, you know, kind of AI and where, you know. How the, the fitness business moves forward. I'm on a panel, um, next week or two weeks, uh, we're doing an event here in the city with a bunch of guys. Um, actually, do you know Edward Herman?
He owns, so he owns a business called, uh, AFL Tech News, and they Oh, yeah, I read that. Okay. Mm-hmm. So he's, he's the founder, his summit, right? Yeah. Yeah. So we're doing his summit, uh, in a couple weeks. And I was on a pa um, I'm speaking on a panel with a bunch of other guys who they're, the whole idea behind the panel is like community.
How do you build community and ath, um, athletics and things like that? How's it, what, what does the world look like going forward with AI and everything like that? Like what's your opinion on community ai, the future of health and wellness? Because you've gotten to see a lot of it. Yeah. You've seen 20 years, 30 years of fitness and wellness.
Like what, what do you think's next? Um. It might have even been an article that I read in his newsletter that, uh, that I can't remember, but it's basically, um, analog fitness is a very human experience. Mm-hmm. So people are craving the analog experience. I don't think that while ai, there's every corner of everything.
It, it can help create incredible efficiency. What it cannot do is lift for me. It can't sweat for me, it can't replace that. And, and quite honestly, what I think that the fitness industry that loves fitness, uh, and you see this with biohacking and everything is just like, Ooh, how can I sharpen my blade even more?
Like if I, can I turn the cold plunge down three degrees? Like what if I, you know, you, there's this guy who never wants to die and he's eating like 54 Brian Johnson. Yeah. So like, like, oh my God, I never wanna be that healthy. Just kill me. Yeah. Yeah. So, so my perspective is I wanna have a good quality of life in my life.
I don't wanna have to turn it into my life. And I'm not trying to find just the sharpest, sharpest edge of biohacking. What we're trying to do is just simplify the whole thing. Gravity's free. What you need is a step-by-step approach given to you by credible, well-trained people that is proven to give you an outcome.
Now, AI can help us conceive of these things, but people have to execute it. I do not. I know personally, if I was looking at an AI trainer or listening to an AI voice, I would turn that shit off me too. I just wouldn't be motivated by it. I want a human being that's had a human being experience to be the trainer.
So while connected fitness, there's always gonna be things like, I'm just not a guy who cares about closing my rings. Like I know if I got enough exercise today 'cause of where my energy is. I know if I got a good workout, not because some thing gave me numbers because my shirt is fucking sweaty and, and, and so I, I think we can delegate.
I. Measurement of our lives so much that we stop actually paying attention to how we feel. Do I need more sleep or not? I don't need my watch to fucking tell me. Or some ring that I'm wearing to say that I'm hung. Say that all the time. I say that all the time. I've, I've never really bought into the data side of things.
I think there's too much data overload. I don't need AI to teach me how to work out. What I need is another human being there to help me through it and to push me and motivate me. I, you know, I was just at the HFA summit. Mm-hmm. And there's a company called e gm, right? Yeah. And like techno gym. Mm-hmm. And a lot of them are doing a lot of this AI stuff.
That same weekend I was with Ben Koski. He was a bodybuilder out of, uh, he was from, uh, Toronto. He now lives down in Tampa. I've always admired this guy. I've been following him for years. And we had gotten, we got connected at another event. We were hanging out, we went to work out at, uh, uh, what the. Uh, dragons layer in Vegas.
So we're working out there and we were talking about AI and stuff, and I was like, dude, I just can't buy into it. And it's funny to me because what I see on social media is a lot of younger kids just picking up iron. They wanna pick up dumbbells and kettlebells. There's all this information, these, all these multimillion dollar companies that are coming out with all this fancy equipment.
But at the end of the day, people just want a dumbbell. People just want to use body weight. You know, like if you look at the success of High Rocks, there's no digital footprint there. It's all like just hands on doing what's farmers scary. And I said. So Ben, we were doing, um, we were doing back squats, and Ben said, come on, gimme one more.
I'm with you. I'm with you. And just knowing that there was another human behind me mm-hmm. And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna wrap this out. And we're, and I go, I'll never get that type of workout from a machine. I agree. Right? So I go there. The human aspect is so important. So as good as everybody thinks that AI is, it'll never replace that emotional attachment that you get from another human.
Just like you said, there's, if I start hearing something digital or I think a computer's talking to me, I'm like, I'm not gonna fucking listen. It's, it's already, I know the messaging. I want another person there. I want a real human response from something. Yeah. So, well, I appreciate you coming on the show, Carl.
It's been fun. This has been awesome. Yeah, this has been a great conversation. I literally could talk to you for another two hours. Me too. But I gotta pee. Ken, I gotta pick your brain a little bit more. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in. Where could everybody find you and where, where, what do you pitching these days?
Um. I'm not trying to sell anything. I mean, b body.com, b odi i.com, uh, is the place to find everything I talked about. Yeah. And, uh, anybody who's interested in watching me make a fool outta myself, I try to post just about every workout that I do, some little montage so that people see that they can do it.
And that's at Carl. Do Dyler, uh, on Instagram and I'll make a fool outta myself, and you'll see that you can make a fool of yourself too. Yeah. I, I love your messaging and it's so thank you. I love meeting a CEO who's living and breathing his business. I mean, it's, it's so powerful. I don't know, have you, have you ever met Baram, the guy who owns Lifetime?
Sure. Yeah. He's a good guy. Amazing guy, right? I love him. And he's one ball of energy man. He's a nuke. And he's one of those guys where it's like, he's in the classes, he's teaching the class, he's fucking sitting at the bar. I'm like, this guy's so impressive. And you, I, I would put you in the same category.
Oh, thank you. So it's impressive. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. Like, subscribe, share with a friend and continue to get strong.