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What started as an exploration of the devil in their show, The Exorcist Minute, has grown into something much greater. Find all the original episodes of the show and more right here in The Devil's Details with Lester Ryan Clark and Kynan Dias.
Coming up on the Devil's Details, the end? Question mark? Question mark? No. It's no.
Lester Ryan Clark:It's it's not the end. Please please don't go. Please please stay. We got more seasons. It's the end of the end times.
Lester Ryan Clark:The end of Revelation Chapter 22. Well, it's the end? Where do we go from here? I don't know why it's Jimmy Stewart. Good morning, Star, and welcome to another episode of the Devil's Details, the show where we dig up, decipher, dissect, deconstruct the many forms of the devil.
Lester Ryan Clark:One of my names is Lester Ryan Clark.
Kynan Dias:And I sometimes go by Kynan Dias.
Lester Ryan Clark:And we're just two lost souls hitchhiking down the highway to hell. And yeah folks, welcome back. We are here. This is it. This is the end.
Lester Ryan Clark:Chapter 22, the final chapter of Revelation. The final chapter of the entire bible if you are most Christian denominations. I almost forgot about the other ones.
Kynan Dias:But yes. You can read them in any order you want.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yes. Yes. You can. And most do.
Kynan Dias:Yes. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:But no. After all the chaos and the violence and the beasts and the plagues, after Babylon burning and Satan being defeated and new Jerusalem descending, we end with a river and a certain tree Mhmm. That has given us trouble since our paradise lost season.
Kynan Dias:Since the beginning. Since the beginning. But
Lester Ryan Clark:no, there it it is beautiful in a sense. Mhmm. The fact that the Bible starts in a garden Mhmm. With a tree with this tree and ends in a city with a tree. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Like, we've come full circle, but we haven't just gone back to Eden. We've gone forward to something even well, I was gonna say we've gone forward to something even better. I don't know. I'm thinking of the troll in Central Park.
Kynan Dias:As you often do.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yes. Don Blue's most most popular film.
Kynan Dias:The one where little kids in the aisle of Blockbuster would say, mommy, please don't rent me this movie.
Lester Ryan Clark:Troll in Central Park was a threat. If you're not good, we're getting Troll in Central Park. Oh, I'm just I'm I'm thinking back on it now. Those kids were such little shits. And Don Bluth is really, good at drawing mean faced little kids.
Kynan Dias:Yes.
Lester Ryan Clark:What was it? He was crying and he created a flood with his tears or something like that.
Kynan Dias:Okay. Anyways, we're talking about the bible. Yes. Yes. Right.
Kynan Dias:Wait. What was this troll in Central Park idea? So instead of going backwards, we've gone forward
Lester Ryan Clark:to something like At first that's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say instead of going backwards, we've gone forwards. It used to be the Garden Of Eden, now it's the City Of Eden. But now, know, my little troll heart is like, is a city better than a garden? You know?
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. And you have and you have rows and rows of forbidden trees
Kynan Dias:That's right.
Lester Ryan Clark:Down Central Park Avenue. You know? I don't know. I don't know. I like, I I guess this city is supposed to be like like no other city.
Lester Ryan Clark:Guess. Yes. Right? What is this? Like, yeah, like like, define city, quote unquote.
Lester Ryan Clark:You know? Mhmm. Mhmm. But, yeah, the garden has become a city, humanity has matured, and God is still there dwelling with his people. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:But, yeah, let's get into it. Let's get into this final chapter because it's both a continuation of the vision from chapter 21 and a direct address to John's readers telling them what to do with everything that they have just read. Mhmm. Alright, folks. This is Revelation Chapter 22.
Lester Ryan Clark:And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare 12 manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month, and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall serve him, and they shall see his face, and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there, and they shall need no candle, neither light of the sun, for the Lord God giveth them light, and they shall reign forever and ever. And he said unto me, these sayings are faithful and true, And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Lester Ryan Clark:Behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. And I, John, saw these things and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, see thou do it not, for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren, the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book, worship God.
Lester Ryan Clark:And he saith unto me, seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still, and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still, and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still, and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Lester Ryan Clark:For without are dogs and sorcerers and whoremongers and murderers and idolaters and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I, Jesus, have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root of the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the spirit and the bride say, come. And let him that heareth say, come, and let him that is at thirst, come, and whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Lester Ryan Clark:For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book. If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, surely I come quickly. Amen.
Lester Ryan Clark:Even so come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Kynan Dias:Amen.
Lester Ryan Clark:Amen. So, yeah, that's it. That's that is the end. Mhmm. Once again, I'm not as familiar with this one.
Lester Ryan Clark:How about you? Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:No. But, like, most of the times I pick up a book I'm not sure I wanna read, I I have skipped to the end and see what happens and says, Jesus Christ with you all. Amen. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:So, yeah, now I now I know what that's about.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Alright. So it's gonna be o we're gonna be okay.
Kynan Dias:In the end, Jesus does it.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yes. Mhmm. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Lester Ryan Clark:Okay. So, folks, in popular end times reading, chapter 22 is just more description of heaven. The the river of life, the tree of life. Mhmm. What was that?
Lester Ryan Clark:Tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Kynan Dias:It's not around.
Lester Ryan Clark:That's not around. Right? Eternal worship, seeing God's face, reigning forever. It is the final picture of paradise, the place where believers will spend eternity. And then the ending is usually read as Jesus saying, like, I'm coming back soon, which folks, it's it's been two thousand years, and and soon is doing a lot of work in that sentence.
Lester Ryan Clark:And, you know, there's warnings about not adding to or taking away from the book. Right? And then and then the book just ends. Right? It's amen.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Mhmm. It's treated as the conclusion to a prophecy about the distant future, a promise that Jesus will return someday to rapture believers and judge the wicked and establish his kingdom. Mhmm. I think though that that reading misses a lot of what John is actually saying here.
Lester Ryan Clark:Okay. So let yeah. Let's look at look let's look at what's actually happening in this chapter because it's it's doing two things at once. It is completing the vision of the new Jerusalem, and it's telling John's readers and us what to do with this vision. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:So verse one, right, and he showed me a a a a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal proceeding out of the throne of God and the lamb. Right? Mhmm. So river of the water of life. But, no, this is echoing Ezekiel 47 where there's a vision of water flowing from the temple bringing life where of it wherever it goes.
Lester Ryan Clark:It's also echoing Genesis two where a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden. Right?
Kynan Dias:Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:So we're back to Eden imagery, but but better. In Eden, the river the river the river watered the garden. Here, the river flows through the entire city, bringing life to everyone. Mhmm. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:It's almost like we're the
Kynan Dias:garden. We? You.
Lester Ryan Clark:And then we got verse two. Right? In the midst of the street and on either side of the river, right, was the tree of life. Right? Tree of life.
Lester Ryan Clark:Our old our old friend, the tree of life. From the bee. Days. Yeah. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:So the tree that that humanity was exiled from back in Genesis three. Mhmm. It's back. Mhmm. And it's and it's not just one tree in a garden that only two people can access.
Lester Ryan Clark:It's it's lining the streets of the city accessible to everyone. Mhmm. I'm I'm imagining just like all trees are trees of life now, like, in the city.
Kynan Dias:So. Yeah. What else what else do you have a tree for?
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Like, I know our Milton season was was was ages ago, but and and we and we had this same problem before, but I was so familiar with the tree of knowledge of good and evil
Kynan Dias:Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:That I completely forgot there was another tree, and they were expelled from Eden so that they couldn't get to the tree of life, which would have granted them eternal life.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. Right. So now they have it. It's it's I like the idea that it's like, you know, there's a river that's flowing through the city, but there's also streets there. It like combines the best of nature and of what man can be promised in heaven, you know, like something that looks like the city and looks like
Lester Ryan Clark:A garden.
Kynan Dias:Looks like the garden. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well well, I would say it looks like nature because the Garden of Eden is a garden and not a wilderness.
Kynan Dias:It is a place that we are tending to. Right? So so the best kind of garden gives us the the look of both of them. I think that when we you know, as we talked about when we depict the Garden of Eden, just depict paradise as wilderness.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah.
Kynan Dias:Right. But it is more than that. It's Eve is, in Milton's reading of it, is there to expand it and to tend it and Adam is there to conquer it a little.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. And name it and and all of that. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Right.
Kynan Dias:Tame it. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:Name it and tame it. Mhmm. Expand it and brand it.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. Bag it and tag it. Hit it and quit it.
Lester Ryan Clark:Use it in the well, they did. They used it and lose it.
Kynan Dias:I saw in the Catholic reading of this when it is the the tree of life. Mhmm. You know, here we're gonna say like the people some people have access to the tree of life and that's the the key thing for everyone who lives in the city. The people who don't live in the city don't get access to the tree of life. And so in a lot of Catholic teaching, this is used to be a I thought of as a metaphor for the Eucharist and for like who gets the sacraments, who gets Shoot, I've lost my Catholic words.
Kynan Dias:Who gets the body of the communion? Thank you, sheepers, creepers. Yes, who gets communion? Who gets to have that in weekly mass? Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:Wow. Okay. That's interesting. I was always a little bit side eye with our religion's gatekeepiness of well, you can't have the body of Christ. Man.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. Divorced people can't and, you know, at some times, and there's still debate at certain churches and the Pope has to stand in and and make those decisions. Mhmm. There were Catholic diocese in America, like, usually like the one or two heads who were saying this, Biden can't get communion anymore. Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. And then the the Vatican has to say, like, stop making these decisions if it gets to get the communion and in that, like, that's not your job and Mhmm. And that kind of thing.
Lester Ryan Clark:And, like, back in the day, like like, you know, in in the medieval times, it was like like, it was a very, like, real threat of like, I'm going to excommunicate you. I'm going to basically keep you from performing the sacraments or receiving the sacraments, meaning you can't get into heaven because you Right. Like like, we we we made up this thing where it's like you can't get into heaven without doing the sacraments. Mhmm. And who's the one giving you the sacraments?
Lester Ryan Clark:It's the church, it's us.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. Right. And then that has real world ramifications because you wouldn't wanna be associated with someone like that.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. Right. So if your leader is excommunicated, then you effectively have turned your little city state into a place of shunned people. You can't do business with them, you can't do any political business with them.
Lester Ryan Clark:There was a rumor going around that our current pope, Pope Leo Mhmm. The Chicago pope
Kynan Dias:Yeah. The pope.
Lester Ryan Clark:The pope. He doesn't like the beast. But, no, like like, there was there was was talk of him possibly considering excommunicating JD Vans because apparently JD Vans is Catholic. Yeah. I don't know how factual this is.
Lester Ryan Clark:I don't know like, I just heard it on social media, so it's probably not even it's it's like from from one person to another person to another person to another person. So, you know, like like, probably not true at all. Probably not There was, like, a shiver online of like, oh, this might do it. This might you know, because, like, that's that like, for actual devout Catholics Mhmm. That's that still is, like, a thing, a threat.
Lester Ryan Clark:It's like, oh, you excommunicated. Right?
Kynan Dias:And they
Lester Ryan Clark:were like, how Catholic is Deity Vance? I don't know.
Kynan Dias:Oh, a lot of I don't know if you say that. Deity Vance is Catholic. He's a Catholic. He converted to Catholicism
Lester Ryan Clark:Oh, jeez.
Kynan Dias:As an adult. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:Did
Kynan Dias:he? Yes, he did. Interesting.
Lester Ryan Clark:And he looks upon his works and sees nothing amiss? Nothing? Nothing? Anyway. Anyway.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Let's get it. Now, we're we're we're in the we're in the city. Let's get let's yeah.
Kynan Dias:Right. But I just wanted to point it out that that they're using this terminal these phrases from Revelation
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:Which are like, you know, okay. This is the end time still, and there are still rules of who gets the tree of life, etcetera. Interesting. Yeah. At the end, at the end, and so how are we gonna bring that to today?
Kynan Dias:Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:I never even thought of people being outside of the city.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. Oh, but we have that. Yeah. Well, yeah, because we well, that's one of the that's one of the messy contradictions of this book is that we've just said everyone is dead, that everyone's been thrown out there, but then here
Lester Ryan Clark:You did a lake of fire.
Kynan Dias:You did a lake of fire, and then here we have, oh, there's still out there are dogs and whoremongers. Don't let them in.
Lester Ryan Clark:This can't be. But is this is this is this why, you know, the early church was like, dogs don't have souls. They don't go to heaven.
Kynan Dias:I think every church says that.
Lester Ryan Clark:Well, they're wrong.
Kynan Dias:We saw a whole Don movie about it.
Lester Ryan Clark:Which is the best Don Bluth film, I think, or one of them.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. Certainly, of the ones with the least ugly children. Actually,
Lester Ryan Clark:yeah. Yeah. She's nice. Yeah. But you're paying more attention to the dogs in that one.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right. I think I think good choice, Don Bluth. Like, pay attention to the the trolls and the dogs and the and the dinosaurs and the and the mouses.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Anyway Yeah. That like I I never even thought that that people would be outside of the city.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Yeah. Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:We killed them all and they're outside.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. So we get the we get the satisfaction of them being thrown into the lake of fire Mhmm. And then also the satisfaction of being on the other side of the gate of the country club Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Looking at them with their little Oliver Twist costumes with the little bows. It's like, please, please, sir. Mhmm. Can I have can I have some more? Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:And and he's like, no. Screw you, lip tarts. Blah. Right. So we get both.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right?
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. Yes.
Lester Ryan Clark:Think right. We four. Blah.
Kynan Dias:That's right, though. Yes. I think that's Wow.
Lester Ryan Clark:Okay. Well, there we go. Alright. But, yeah, we got this tree of life and it bears 12 kinds of fruit. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:There's a go the the number 12 again. I can't even name 12 kinds of fruit right now.
Kynan Dias:Well, I think it's easy if you just name berries because you know Eat eat eat Strawberry, blackberry, red berry, blueberry
Lester Ryan Clark:There's a red berry. There's
Kynan Dias:a red berry.
Lester Ryan Clark:You're lying.
Kynan Dias:Fuzzy berries, big berries, little berries. No. Let's actually do this.
Lester Ryan Clark:Assuming that they're not like, you know, invented god fruits that like are awesome and amazing. Okay.
Kynan Dias:Like snossberries.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. Which tastes like snossberries. No. Okay.
Lester Ryan Clark:Apples, bananas Mhmm. Grapes Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:That's Shut up. Oranges,
Lester Ryan Clark:lemons, limes. There we go. Cherries. Mhmm. Kumquats.
Lester Ryan Clark:I couldn't I couldn't not think of that. That one was screaming at me the whole time. Alright. Kiwis. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:That's nine. Mhmm. Apricots. Yeah. That's ten.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. Grapefruits. That's eleven. We need one more. One fucking more.
Kynan Dias:Look down your cannon monster and see what what fake flavor it has.
Lester Ryan Clark:Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, no. I named both of these.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. It's electric limeade.
Kynan Dias:Electric berries?
Lester Ryan Clark:Oh, blueberries. There we go.
Kynan Dias:Alright. Great. There we go. Yep.
Lester Ryan Clark:Alright. That's 12 that's 12 fruits. Good. And there's partridge in there.
Kynan Dias:Quite a combination of of those 12 fruits. Wonderful. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. Right. And you can go and you can pick, you know, like assorted things and you can bring it to the smoothie shop and yeah and they'll mix it up nice for you.
Kynan Dias:Oh, very good.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Would you like protein with that? Yes.
Lester Ryan Clark:The answer is always yes. I come here every day. Mhmm. Okay.
Kynan Dias:But this tree, it bears fruit year round is the point.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yes. Well, yeah. It says it yields fruit every month. Mhmm. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. So so, like, don't have to worry about winter. Right. Doesn't have to it's like, oh, are the tree of life fruits in season? Yes, are.
Lester Ryan Clark:They are always in season.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. Right. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. And then okay. And then this line, right, the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Mhmm. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:The healing of the nations. Not the destruction of the nations, not the judgment, the healing, but what do we think that actually means?
Kynan Dias:Well, that is interesting. I'm and I wanna take these things at face value when when we see things like that. But, yeah, but then the next, you know, the next verse will be something pretty vindictive. Mhmm. But you have the healing of the nations, which are the enemy.
Kynan Dias:Right? Right. The nations have been out, you know, whoring whoremongering.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right. All those nations. Yeah.
Kynan Dias:Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. But it seems to be okay. Okay. Yeah. The nations were deceived by Babylon.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right?
Kynan Dias:Okay. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:They followed the beast. Mhmm. They made war against the lamb. But in the end, the nations are healed. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:The tree of life, which which humanity lost access to because of sin Mhmm. Is now available for the healing of every nation that opposed God or only the ones that stuck with God.
Kynan Dias:I mean, it reads to me in in the actual text it's all of them.
Lester Ryan Clark:But
Kynan Dias:then I know if I believe John.
Lester Ryan Clark:So, okay, so we have our cake, we get to eat it too, and we get to lord it over okay, so this is what it is. We get to throw him into the lake of fire.
Kynan Dias:Check.
Lester Ryan Clark:We get to we get to look at them in their little Oliver Twist clothes on the other side of the gate of the country club.
Kynan Dias:Check. Check.
Lester Ryan Clark:As we eat our cake. And then we open up the gates and we give them cake. Mhmm. In a in a way of like, aren't you so fortunate that we are giving you cake? Uh-huh.
Lester Ryan Clark:You're welcome.
Kynan Dias:Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. I see. I see. Mhmm. I see what's going on here.
Lester Ryan Clark:This heaven is is is sounding a little bit a little bit bit 1% y. Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:Legalize cake.
Lester Ryan Clark:Anyway but yeah. I mean, like or if if we read it as, like, everybody is forgiven. Like, all the nations, even the ones that oppose God are are let in and and allowed to eat from, you know, the fruits of the tree of life. Mhmm. Right?
Kynan Dias:That'd be nice.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. But then, you know, four verses later, it says there's still people outside. Yeah. And it says if if you fuck up, you're gonna get added to the or erased from the book of life and Yes. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? I'm looking at verse three now. Right? There shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and the lamb shall be in it and his servants shall serve him. So so no more like, so the curse from Genesis three, basically.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? The curse the curse cursed is the ground because of you. Right? Right. All that is gone.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? So creation fully restored. The relationship between God and humanity, fully restored. Mhmm. God's servants will serve him, not out of fear or obligation, but out of love.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? The the, you know, worship as as it was meant to be. I do remember in Paradise Lost when Adam and Eve like, we kinda dip in on them as they're they're, like, doing their evening prayer to God. Uh-huh. And it's, like, unstructured and improvised and, like, like, they sing some of it and they just kind of, like, they go off and and, like, talk about anything and everything.
Kynan Dias:Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:And it's it's, you know, it's like kids, you know, talking to, like, a loving father or something like that. And I thought that was really Mhmm. Really touching. And I'm wondering if that's what this part is talking about is the, like, worship no longer being separate. It like, it's now synonymous with just, like, expressing joy.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. Like, just being happy is the worship. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:And they shall see his face. Right? And his name shall be in their foreheads. They get to see his face. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:In the old remember folks, the Old Testament, seeing God's face meant death. Mhmm. Right? Moses could only see God's back. Uh-huh.
Lester Ryan Clark:But here in the new Jerusalem, we see his face. We're in full unmediated relationship with God. Mhmm. Alright? And his name is on their foreheads.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Remember the, you know, the mark of the beast. Right? The ones who worship the beast had his mark on their foreheads. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:But the faithful have God's name on their foreheads. They belong to god. They're his people. Should be no more night there. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:No need of a candle. So so god is the light. Right? And they, right, the people shall reign, not just worship, but not just serve, but reign. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Humanity is restored to its original purpose to be God's image bearers, to reign over creation in partnership with God.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. I think that we totally overestimate our ability to live at night nowadays because we have electric light and all of that. Uh-huh. But There's really cool economics papers about how long will it take you to work, how much work do you have to do to earn enough to buy a minute of light. In the old days, you'd have to kill a whale and then bring it all the way back there turn it into a candle that would last fifteen minutes or whatever.
Kynan Dias:Those are so expensive that it might cost you four weeks' pay in order to go for fifteen minutes of light.
Lester Ryan Clark:I mean, like, yeah. When you when you go all the way back, when you think of, like, the primal I don't know. Like, danger is even too small of a word for it, but just, like, the the concept of night. Mhmm. And, you know, when when you don't have access to light.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right. And suddenly all of those kind of like metaphors, it's like, I am, you know, I will light your way. I am I am, you know, the lantern. I am you know, a lantern for your feet. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Or or, you know, it's like, I am the candle in the darkness or or whatever. Like, you don't think about that anymore, like you're saying, because, like, like, we, you know, just turn on a switch. Right? Like, I got I got I can't even count how many electric lights I got, you know, around me right now.
Kynan Dias:Right? I'll count one two three four five. I got six lights on for one room.
Lester Ryan Clark:And I'm I'm in no way comparing my situation to the people back then. But have you ever been driving on that lonely road from Vegas to LA at night? And know, you make a stop because, know, you gotta take a leak or whatever. Right? And just for just for fun, just for shits and giggles, you you turn off your headlights.
Lester Ryan Clark:And it is dark. Mhmm. Like, there is like, no light exists except for the stars and the moon, and you realize just how, like, at the mercy of the earth you are.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Because, you know, there are things out there that can see in the dark and we can't. And, like, we are we are completely crippled, if that's a word. I shouldn't use that word. We are we are completely, like, stripped of our our power, you know, in the nighttime.
Kynan Dias:Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:It gives me the same feeling, you know, when, you know, when you look out, like, onto the, like, the vastness of the sea or something like that. Right. Right? It's like what is the like like like man should never, like, was never meant to go there. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Somebody pointed this out. I don't know I don't know how true this is. I don't yeah. Actually, when I think about it for, like, two seconds, don't think it's true at all. But it it fascinated me when he said it because we were all around the fire, and it was very you know, like and the darkness was closing in on us.
Lester Ryan Clark:But he said, human babies are the only animal that will walk right up to the, you know, the edge of the sea. Mhmm. Like, it just like in wonder, you know, and get their feet wet and everything like that. And every other animal looks out onto that vast expanse and it's like, nope. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. And I don't know how true that is. I don't that can't be true.
Kynan Dias:Sea turtle babies.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Right? Fair. I thought I had said something profound.
Kynan Dias:I thought I had heard something profound. No. That is profound.
Lester Ryan Clark:But but also completely accurate. Like, I'm thinking of a dozen animals that that get to the shore and they're like, hey. Water.
Kynan Dias:Hey. Oh, hey. Hooray. Any
Lester Ryan Clark:kind of fishing bird? Any kind of yeah. What are you thinking, Lester?
Kynan Dias:Beautiful thought. Yes. Yes. Beautiful.
Lester Ryan Clark:Much like passages of the bible. It's, like, very, very pretty. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:But I also would kinda miss night. What are you thinking?
Kynan Dias:That's what I mean. Like like, when I when I hear that passage, it's like, oh, but night is not so bad, but I'm thinking about it from a a 90 CE point of view. And, yeah, night's pretty
Lester Ryan Clark:bad. Yeah.
Kynan Dias:You you can't you you cannot function. You can't find your way home. Oftentimes, if if there were no fires out, you know, in your little village, you wouldn't be able to get home. Yeah. So we're we're thinking of this freeze to death.
Lester Ryan Clark:Exactly. Yeah. Mhmm. So we're thinking of this, you know, in in, like, first century BCE. Like, we're we're thinking or first we're thinking of this, like, first century CE, like Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:Like, this is this is your survival is at stake. Yes. Right? Like, you're you're going from Samaria to Jerusalem, and you picked the, you know, the worst time because the sun is setting, and now you're you're traveling through those little ravines and canyons, and the moon is out. And could be bandits, could be Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Wild dogs, could be know, anything could could get you.
Kynan Dias:Baby sea turtles or anything?
Lester Ryan Clark:Baby sea turtles. They Mhmm. Watch out. They're not afraid of the sea. Thumbs
Kynan Dias:up. Yeah. But, anyway, that that's all the point is yet. Yeah. Now you don't you don't have you don't have half of your day just dictated for you by by randomness of, oh, there is no light, you have to all huddle home and and, you know Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:Worry about that and plan your whole day around, like, doing all these things before the sun goes down.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:But, yeah, because God is the light. Right? Mhmm. And then, okay, talking about, verse six. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:The tone, shifts. Right? We're we're no longer in the vision. We're we're getting, this direct instruction. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:And he said unto me, these sayings are faithful and true. Right? And God sent, his angel to show his servants the, the things which must shortly be done. Mhmm. Alright.
Lester Ryan Clark:So which must shortly be done, not which will happen in the distant future Mhmm. Shortly, soon, imminent. And I think this is key. John is writing to a community in the late first century. He is telling them that this is happening soon, not two thousand years from now, but soon.
Lester Ryan Clark:So what does that mean? Does it mean John was wrong? Does it mean the prophecy failed? No. I think it means John wasn't writing about a prophecy or about our future.
Lester Ryan Clark:He was writing about their present. Right? Like we have said, you know, time and time again on this season. Right? The things he's been describing, right, the fall of Babylon, defeat of the beast, the victory of the lamb, these are things that are already happening or are about to happen in his readers' lifetimes.
Lester Ryan Clark:Rome will fall. The beast will be defeated. Not, you know, in some distant apocalypse, but through, you know, faithful witness of the church, through the power of truth, through the inevitable collapse of capital e empire. Mhmm. And he says, behold, I come quickly.
Lester Ryan Clark:Blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. So I come quickly. Blessing for those who keep the sayings. Right? Not not those who decode the timeline and figure out the hidden meanings.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Mhmm. Those who keep them. Right? Those who live them.
Lester Ryan Clark:Those who put them into practice. Right? And again, like, I love this again. Like, this is the second time John has tried to worship the angel. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right?
Kynan Dias:He did
Lester Ryan Clark:this back in chapter 19 too. Right? Right. And again, the angel says, don't do that. I'm just a fellow servant.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Worship God. And I love that this happens twice because John really wants us to get it. Don't worship the messenger. Don't worship the vision.
Lester Ryan Clark:Don't worship the book. Mhmm. Worship God. I really like that because I don't know how many times or or, like, like, we all know somebody who can quote Revelation, you know, just like rapid fire. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:And and that's their, like, mic drop. It's like, I'm right because, you know, in the name of the star was Wormwood and the four horsemen. Right? Right. And and and, you know, the the lord is king and, you know, he's gonna come and he's got a sword out of his mouth and blah blah blah.
Lester Ryan Clark:And that's like their because I said so. Mhmm. That's their that's their end of the argument is, well, it says so in the bible. Mhmm. And I really like that this this metaphor of John worshiping the messenger, the angel, because remember, angel means messenger Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Could be seen as people I mean, literally bible thumping. Mhmm. Yep. Right? It's it's like this is it says here, da da da da.
Lester Ryan Clark:It's like, well, okay. Yeah. It says that. Right? Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:You're you're you're very well versed in this book that that you don't, like, practice. Mhmm. You know? So yeah. So that spoke to me a lot.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. The words but not the music or, you know
Lester Ryan Clark:Oh, yeah.
Kynan Dias:Letter of law but not the spirit
Lester Ryan Clark:of the law. Ah, I like that too. Yeah. Yeah. And he's verse 10, and he saith unto me, seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? So don't seal up this prophecy unlike Daniel. Daniel, who was told to seal up his vision, right, until the time of the end. Right? John is told to leave it open because the time is at hand right now.
Lester Ryan Clark:This is for, you know, the immediate audience. Right?
Kynan Dias:Yeah. So don't don't, yeah, save it, and don't don't turn it into a scroll that has to be unlocked. We've seen what happens to scrolls that get unlocked. All sorts of things happen. Right?
Kynan Dias:Oh, yeah. Get storms and and diseases and all that stuff. But yeah. So this this will not be necessary. We we need this right now.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we get verse 11.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. It's a little bit of a diversion. Right? Mhmm. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still.
Lester Ryan Clark:And he which is filthy, let him be filthy still. He that is righteous, let him be righteous still. He that is holy, let him be holy still. So sounds almost fatalistic. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Like if if you're unjust, just stay unjust. Right? If you're righteous, just stay righteous. But I think what John is saying is the time for decision is now. You've read this whole book.
Lester Ryan Clark:You've seen Babylon fall. You've seen the beast defeated. You've seen the new Jerusalem descend. Now you have to choose. Are you going to keep worshiping the beast or are you going to be faithful?
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Whatever you choose, choose now. Right? Because the because the time is at hand. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:And and the Mhmm. I I think maybe to add to this, it's like, whatever you choose now, this is going to be the final choice Mhmm. And how you are going to be judged.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. I I don't really know the timeline of when this develops, but there you know, I think the the beauty and the curse of Christian theology is the idea that your fellow man is your neighbor, which is this beautiful thing. So you're commanded to love thy neighbor as yourself, and so what some people take that as is to go out and to take care of people regardless. And then other people take that as well, I have this faith that has saved me, and so what I would want to have happened if I don't have faith is for someone to come and save me. And so beautiful, but that could also be clearly I'll save you by throwing you in this fire pit, is terrible things and torturing your family and enslaving you and all that stuff.
Lester Ryan Clark:Before the end times, I'm just going to beat you over the head with the threat of hell until you realize that I'm trying to help you.
Kynan Dias:Right. So I don't know when that idea kind of emerges. I've heard some scholars talk about that idea. But here, it would seem that John is saying like, stop prophesizing, like it's over. Like, this is it, it's done.
Kynan Dias:Like, if someone is still because it doesn't say like about yourself, it's like, well, don't know, guess I'm reading it that way. But like, it's like, okay, if you are unjust, be unjust still, etcetera. But I'm also reading that if other people are unjust, leave him alone. It's too late. He that's filthy, that's righteous, you're not gonna be able to make any changes at this point because I haven't come.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. I I like that better. Yeah. The time is now. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Like, if if they are, you know, quote unquote filthy, whatever that means, or if they are unjust, you know, whatever that happens to be defined as, or if they are holy or if they are righteous Right. Then that is it's it's almost like like John is saying or or or or the angel or Jesus is saying, that is their character. Mhmm. If they're still like this after all of the, you know, the fantastical stuff that just happened, then that's just that's just them. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. And that's that's how it's gonna be. So stop trying to, you know, fix them or whatever.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. I mean, you should try to put yourself in in some people's shoes when when we're criticizing this idea in Christianity. Like, There's a movie called Creation. I don't know how accurate it is to the actual Darwins, but this is about Mrs. Darwin, who is learning that her husband is becoming an atheist as he learns about evolution.
Kynan Dias:Oh. And her really concerned about him going to hell and becoming the center of atheism for discovering evolution. And her really worried about that of, jeez, going to eternity without my husband, and how could you not try to say something? Live and let live in that respect.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. That's always a tough call. I'm looking around at everything today, and I have people who are very, very close to me who are very, very religious and also weirdly and impossibly very, very okay with everything that's happening right now. Mhmm. You guys know what I mean.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. And I'm like, how like, like, if if I were as religious as you Mhmm. I would be constantly checking myself Mhmm. And being like, am I am I on the road to hell right now? Like, am I am I supporting the wrong person?
Lester Ryan Clark:Am I on the wrong side of even if I mean, like, you know, and here's and here's my take on it. Even if I'm, you know, like, let's take heaven and hell out of the the equation. Am I on the wrong side of history? Like, I'm like like, even now, like like, I would be constantly checking. I think I think the, you know, the folks who are, like, like, overly confident that that they are on the right side and that they are they are definitely getting raptured up or going to heaven or whatever are doing themselves a disservice because they they're they're not seeing the forest for the trees.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. But And you say they're doing the rest of us a disservice as well. Imagine. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yes. Actively disservicing. Mhmm. But but yeah. But Then we get, you know, twelve and thirteen.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Behold, I come quickly and my reward is with me to give every man according as his work shall be. I am alpha and omega. There's that again. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:The beginning and the end, the first and the last. Right? So Mhmm. Again, the emphasis on on works. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:You're awarded according to what you did, how you lived, whether you worship the beast or stayed faithful. Right? Mhmm. Blessed are they that, you know, that do his commandments. They have a a right to the tree of life.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Again, you know, so so action, right, and how you live, right, to get access to the tree of life. Right? And, yeah, verse verse 15, for without are dogs and sorcerers and whoremongers and murderers and idolaters and who and who and whosoever loveth. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:And maketh a lie. Mhmm. I'm guessing that means whosoever loveth a lie and maketh a lie.
Kynan Dias:Oh, I see.
Lester Ryan Clark:Not just whosoever loveth, period.
Kynan Dias:I thought it was, yeah, whosoever loveth and also lies. But I see what you mean, yes. Yeah. Yeah. They love lies.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. They love lies and they make lies. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. Dogs. Let's just throw dogs in there.
Kynan Dias:That's where the dogs are.
Lester Ryan Clark:This bothers me.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. So so you're staying outside. That's where the dogs are. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:They're good boys. Mhmm. Yeah. And girls.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:But yeah. So so, like, outside of the city are those who chose empire, who chose violence, who chose lies. And, you know, it's it's it's not outside are unbelievers or outside are the wrong denomination. It's murderers and liars and those who worship idols. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Like like the image of the beast. Mhmm. Right? I do like that. I mean, you know, we talked about that last week.
Lester Ryan Clark:You know, it's like those who do not do not say to me, Lord, Lord. Right? And all that. Mhmm. And then verse 16, right, I, Jesus, have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? So he's speaking directly. Right? He's testifying to the churches, plural. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:This is from multiple communities, multiple congregations. Right? It's not a secret code for future dinner generations to decode. Right? It's a message for the churches that John is writing to.
Kynan Dias:Right? Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:And, you know, the bright morning star. Right? We you know, we've talked about that before. Right? Every time I see morning star, I'm like But then it's Jesus.
Lester Ryan Clark:So you know? Right. Which I'm I'm not like, aw. I'm like, oh. But,
Kynan Dias:yeah,
Lester Ryan Clark:here, he's he's I guess he's, like, reclaiming that title. Right? Yeah. So so he is the true light. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Not the false light of empire, right, or the deceiver. Right? Yeah. And and and the spirit of the bride say, come and let him that heareth say, come and let him that is at thirst. Come.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? So so it's an invitation. Right? Spirit says come. The bride, the church, the faithful community says says come.
Lester Ryan Clark:Everyone who hears should say come. Right? Mhmm. And whosoever will, anyone, everyone, the water of life is offered freely. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:This is the gospel. This is the good news. Not believe the right things or or you're going to hell. Right? Not figure out the timeline or you'll be left behind.
Kynan Dias:Right? I didn't I didn't know where you're going today. That's good.
Lester Ryan Clark:We did. We're all going. This is you don't have to worry. Right? But no.
Lester Ryan Clark:It it it's it's offered freely. Right?
Kynan Dias:Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:For everybody. Right? And then we get verses eighteen and nineteen. Right? These are the verses warning against adding or taking away from the book.
Lester Ryan Clark:And and at first glance, this might seem like, you know, biblical inaccuracy or textual criticism. You know, John's saying, you know, don't don't but but what John is actually saying is don't twist this message. Don't add your own interpretations that contradict what I'm saying. Don't take away the parts that you don't like. Hey.
Lester Ryan Clark:Like Mhmm. Everybody does with Revelation.
Kynan Dias:Well, think everybody. Yeah. Yeah. But all the bible. Right?
Kynan Dias:Yeah, that's really interesting. And he's saying specifically about because it's from the angel, right, the angel who's told John to write this down. So he's saying this book specifically, don't add to it, don't take away from it. So it's as if John in ninety CE is already aware of people doing that with other parts of the Bible.
Lester Ryan Clark:So not I mean, like like at like, as you were talking, was like, oh, yeah. John has, a sixth sense that this is going to, you know, cause, like, so much strife and turmoil later. But you're saying, no. It's probably already happening. It's probably already happening with other parts of the Bible.
Kynan Dias:Sure. Mean, this is like two generations away from Jesus. I mean, you know, he knows people who knew Jesus or could have known people who knew Jesus in their lifetimes, etcetera. And yeah, like it's already gone through the telephone game. Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:So he's already seen what this is. Yeah. But know, exactly, like like you're saying, like, it's so interesting to come across that passage at the end of Revelation. Yeah. To add things.
Lester Ryan Clark:The most the most, like, weaponized part of the bible right here. Right? And and we got our angels saying, hey. Don't use this as a weapon. Don't twist this around.
Lester Ryan Clark:Don't don't, you know, don't write a best selling but kind
Kynan Dias:of
Lester Ryan Clark:lukewarmy book series starring Nick Cage. Don't do any of that.
Kynan Dias:Right. Yeah. So again, I think John is kind of a nutso writer, and so how do you say that in a book about beasts and these grand things that maybe are metaphors but don't always say they're metaphors? That's kind of a ballsy way of saying it to this book, which is a crazy book. But yeah, it's also interesting to see, yeah, it says it right there at the end, please don't do that.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. Babylon is Rome, which is stated out specifically very clearly. Babylon is Rome. Don't make Babylon, Belgium, or Washington DC, or whatever you're afraid of right now.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. And the beast and the yeah. The wormwood. It's all we've explained it all.
Lester Ryan Clark:Not gonna repeat myself.
Kynan Dias:John wouldn't like that. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.
Kynan Dias:And,
Lester Ryan Clark:yes, I think popular end times interpretation has done exactly what John warned against. Right? It's added a whole, like, timeline and a rapture and a tribulation that John never described, and it's taken away the urgency, the immediate relevance, the call to action. Right? That's what this is.
Lester Ryan Clark:It's a call to action. It's like, hey. No. Go make heaven on earth. Right?
Kynan Dias:Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:And then verse 20, he which testify at these things saith, surely, come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Right? I come quickly.
Lester Ryan Clark:So John's response is, even so, come, Lord Jesus. Right? Mhmm. Not, you know, come take us away from this terrible world. Just just come.
Kynan Dias:You're
Lester Ryan Clark:right. Be present. Dwell with us. Make all things new. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:And then verse 21, right, the final verse, right, in the and the final verse in the in the Bible. Right? Mhmm. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Grace. That's how it ends is grace, not not fear or threats or warnings. Grace. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Okay. So we have reached the end. 22 chapters. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:We started with letters to seven churches. We went through plagues and beasts and bulls. Oh my. Right? Oh my.
Lester Ryan Clark:Of wrath and, you know, in the fall of Babylon and the defeat of of Satan and and the final judgment, and and we end here at the river of life at the tree whose leaves heal the nations. Right? Whose whose invitation to come and drink freely. Mhmm. Alright.
Lester Ryan Clark:And I think the question we have to ask ourselves is, what do we what do we do with this book? Mhmm. Right? Because for too long, Revelation has been used as a weapon. It's it's been used to scare people.
Lester Ryan Clark:It's been used to create elaborate end times timelines that distract from the actual message. It's been used to justify giving up on this world because it's all gonna burn anyway. It is currently right now as I am speaking into this microphone, Monday, March 16, 07:36PM, being used in our nation's military as an excuse for a war that that most of us don't want. Mhmm. I almost said all of us.
Lester Ryan Clark:I but then I remember there are fucking crazy people out there. But, no, have have you heard that? That that, like I think it was, at least 200 US soldiers have called in to complain saying that their commanding officers are, like, spouting this stuff about, like, how Trump is ordained by God and to to bring about Armageddon, and that's why we're in this war.
Kynan Dias:In Iran, you mean? In Iran. Yeah. Just in case, but next month we're in Cuba that you're clear.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. I don't know why
Kynan Dias:you were listening. But yeah. But yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Kynan Dias:Absolutely. That's that's been reported.
Lester Ryan Clark:So literally, the thing that you Mhmm. Mentioned at the beginning of this season, at the top of this season where you kind of, like, blew my mind. Was like, oh, you just looks like there, you know, there are people in the government who think this is a good thing, and they're trying to actively bring about Armageddon. And I was like, what? And and here we are, chapter 22, and and we get news that, like, the the soldiers, our troops, are are hearing from their commanding officers.
Lester Ryan Clark:Like this is this is ordained. Like like you're fighting a holy war. You are you are in the last chapter of the bible.
Kynan Dias:Right. And that is probably underreported. Right? So these are right. Because I mean, you can understand why people would be loath to report that and not be seen as a snitch within that hierarchy.
Kynan Dias:So it's probably much underreported and these are commanders up and down the chain of command. And I'm sure there are probably people at the highest ranks of the military who believe that and certainly people within the administration. So we are in a war allied with Israel against Iran, and so there are probably people who want us to be in the war, but also for Israel to lose the war in the end.
Lester Ryan Clark:Because that needs to happen for their their fantasy end times game Yes. To
Kynan Dias:So we are allied with Israel in this war fighting Iran, which I don't know how that would do to anything. I didn't. They're the they're
Lester Ryan Clark:the No, I'm not even gonna say it.
Kynan Dias:Iran, that's like Babylon, right? No. Iraq is Babylon, sorry. So Yeah, exactly. So there are people who are up and up and down the military chain of command and in the administration who have a version of this, but they probably don't all agree with each other either on what has to happen.
Lester Ryan Clark:Of course not.
Kynan Dias:Because it's not written down in the bible, so it's not clear instructions. So some of them are probably just like, oh, this it, we're going in, and this is the great war in the Middle East. Other people might have specific ideas about Israel losing, other people might not really have any idea at all what's going on, but just know that it's part of this grand plan.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Can we get that angel to come back down here and just give them all a slap on the wrist, just like, stop it, Stop. You know, which, you know, a slap on the wrist from an angel, that that's gonna, like, you know, that's gonna really hurt.
Kynan Dias:But I imagine so.
Lester Ryan Clark:But I'd be fine with that. Because some of these some of these some of these world leaders need that Mhmm. Including our own. Mhmm. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. It, like, it that no. That's the thing that aggravates me the most. This has been the most aggravating season of our show, Keenan, because, like, you know, we do we do Milton. We do Faust.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. We do Dante, and we can kind of just, like, sit back and enjoy. It's like, wow. You know, Dante built these 10 circles of hell, he's got, you know, Satan in the in the center, and he's frozen in ice. That's what a cool concept.
Lester Ryan Clark:What an oh, you can see where, like, ideas of the devil in hell come from, you know, Dante. It's like, oh, look at this. And, you know, like, Satan's a you know, he's a sexy bad boy in in Milton's retelling. And, oh, he is the snake or no. He goes into the snake and, you know, and all this stuff.
Lester Ryan Clark:And we can just kind of, like, like, be in the back seat as as Milton or Dante or Goethe or Marlowe drive the car and and and just kind of, like, enjoy. We're it's like it's on a track and it's like one of those Disney, you know, rides or Yeah. Right? We're like, oh, you know, as we pass, you know, the little animatronics of Mephistopheles and Faust or whatever. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:And now we are in the back seat and the leader the leaders of the world are driving us off a cliff Mhmm. And we have the map and the map says there's a cliff, but they're not reading the map, they're reading the bible.
Kynan Dias:Mhmm. Right.
Lester Ryan Clark:And every single week, we we pick apart a chapter of Revelation, and it like, oh, it's not about that. It's about this. It's it's about, you know, it's about industry and empire being too big for, you know, its own good. And I just and then and then I turn on the news, and I just wanna shout into my TV, or I wanna, like, like, go to Washington and be like, don't you see I can't. I shouldn't do that.
Lester Ryan Clark:I would get Mhmm. Arrested so fast. Mhmm. Yeah. But you know what I mean?
Lester Ryan Clark:It's like, what a time to be talking about Revelation right now. Mhmm. I guess this was my fault
Kynan Dias:for That gives choosing my keys. This is. Will refer you this earlier time. The first episode of the season.
Lester Ryan Clark:But no. It's just like like and then, you know, people walking around, you know, on both sides being like, oh my god. You know, it's it's a clear sign of the like, Trump is the antichrist. Right? So people people on our side being like, he's the antichrist.
Lester Ryan Clark:And then people on their side being like, no. This war is ordained and and this is you know, we're gonna bring Jesus back. And I just wanna take both of them and shake them and be like, listen to our show. Give us a five star review. But then listen to our show.
Lester Ryan Clark:Like like, it's important because it's not talking about any of this stuff. Right. Yeah. Alright. Didn't didn't realize I'd be so angry on
Kynan Dias:on our list. I thought you'd be yeah. We'd be over. Yeah. Yeah.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. But it it is like, you know, during the the first Trump administration, I think. I can't remember it was in the campaign when Trump was actually president, but Jordan Klepper started going into Trump rallies, you know, from The Daily Show and and asking people stuff, know, and he can kind of you look at him and he looks like a, you know, a white supremacist as part of his take, so that's how he can go in there and get but you'd be like, you know, people would say things there's a clip where people say something crazy and goes, goes, well, that's not in the constitution. And then and he's like, have you read the constitution? Like, no.
Kynan Dias:You haven't read the entire constitution. And Jordan Klepper's like, I have. It's surprisingly short. And the guy's like, I don't believe that. Like, you could read Revelation Mhmm.
Kynan Dias:And and see what's there and what's not there.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. All of this stuff is is no. I I I keep on seeing Mhmm. Like, right after, you know, he was elected the second time. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:And and bad stuff starts happening, then people on, you know, the other side of the the polls are like, I didn't vote for this.
Kynan Dias:Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:Everybody else is just shouting online in all caps, it was an open book test. Mhmm. Like, all of this stuff you know, you don't need, you know, the eyes of prophecy to to to see what was gonna happen, and it happened. Yeah. Anyway but no.
Lester Ryan Clark:Like like, I don't know. Like, have you experienced any of the like like, this sort sort of feeling? Like, as we're as we're, you know, doing Revelation on this show, has has this Mhmm. Like, feeling stirred up in you at all? Like, maybe maybe I'm just, like, overly sensitive and and just, like, like, too much on the news, but, like, I'm hearing, like, I'm I'm seeing YouTubers talking about it.
Lester Ryan Clark:It's like, no. It really is the end times. I just wanna be like, you're wrong. And
Kynan Dias:No. It is not the it's not the end times. No. I mean But
Lester Ryan Clark:has that has that, like, like, stirred up, like, like, like have you had that reaction where where like people are just like, no, I'm talking about this exact thing on my show.
Kynan Dias:Yes. I don't yes. Yes. I I think I know what you mean. I I don't think that there's like been an uptick in people thinking it's the end times, which is why I'm sort of trying to be even keel about it.
Kynan Dias:I think that this happened this is always the way it's been about people talking about the end times, and now it is just different. It's just a different flavor of that.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that I mean, you know, if if we are to look at the end times as a cycle, which it seems like it is, it's like the Mhmm. The whole idea is like, this is what always happens when when empires rise and fall.
Lester Ryan Clark:Is this Mhmm. This this is the death throes of, you know, one empire or the other. Is part of those death throes people walking around saying, this is the end times? Like, is that is that part of it? That you have to, deal with people who are like, Jesus is coming soon.
Kynan Dias:You know? Mhmm. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah.
Kynan Dias:And as much as you would like to be over with Revelation, I think that we're gonna come across a lot in other pieces of literature and other interpretations of what the beast is and what the rapture might be in context with the Devil. So yeah, know, like Paul Thomas Anderson says, you may be done with the good book, but the good book ain't done with you. Yes. Yeah.
Lester Ryan Clark:No. I mean, like like I can't wait for for some cool retellings where, you know, the Antichrist is the son of the devil and Mhmm. You know, and he's, you know, he's he's suave and cool and and and and charismatic and and he, you know, he wins people over and he's he's like bizarro Jesus, you know, and all that stuff. Yeah. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. He's Randall Flagg in Stephen King's, know, you multiverse. Mhmm. Yeah. But, yeah, folks, I mean, like, that's that's kind of it, though.
Lester Ryan Clark:We're living under empire right now. Right? We're watching people suffer. We're watching families get torn apart. We're watching cruelty become policy.
Lester Ryan Clark:And the temptation is either to despair or to crash out like I just did in front of a microphone. Right? To think this is, you know, just how it is and, you know, there's nothing we can do or to escape and to think it's like, well, the world is doomed. I'm just I'm just waiting for Jesus to come back and rescue me. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:But John is saying no. Right? God is making all things new. This world, this creation, and you are called to participate in that renewal right now. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. The metaphorical water of life, right, is flowing right now. Right? The the metaphorical tree of life is bearing fruit right now. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:The the leaves are for the healing of the nations right now. Right?
Kynan Dias:Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Not someday or not some, you know, distant future. It's right now. And I know it's hard. I know it it feels like we're losing. I know empire seems invincible, but Revelation tells us empire always falls.
Lester Ryan Clark:Babylon fell. Rome fell. Every beast that's ever beasted, right, has risen and has eventually been thrown into the quote unquote lake of fire. Right? And in the meantime, we are called to to be that bride.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? Saying come. We're we're we're called to offer the water freely. We're called to to have God's name on our foreheads instead of the mark of the beast. And if you wanna swap out, you know, God and the beast for truth and selfishness or lies or deception.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? You can you can do that. Right? Maybe John would have a problem with that. I don't think God would do.
Lester Ryan Clark:You know, we're we're we're called to refuse violence, to refuse lies, to refuse capital e empire. Right? And instead, choose the way of the lamb, which can also be the way of gentleness and compassion and empathy. Alright? And, yeah, maybe, you know, we'll suffer for it.
Lester Ryan Clark:Right? We've we've been suffering for it. Right? People have been, you know, arrested, hurt, killed for, you know, for for for protesting, for speaking out, you know, against, you know, the current beast. Right?
Lester Ryan Clark:And and and for some folks, it has cost them their lives. But I think I still hold on to the truth will out, and and love and compassion and empathy will win. And maybe that's, you know, that's just like naive, lesser, you know, thinking that, you know, all those all those Disney cartoons when I was growing up are are, you know, the real deal, you know, and and and the adults are the ones living in the in the illusion. Right? Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:But I still wanna hold on to that. I still I still wanna believe that that that love is stronger than than violence and and hate and fear and all that stuff. Mhmm. So yeah. So, folks, we have finished Revelation.
Lester Ryan Clark:We've finished the Bible. Not picking that up one more no. No.
Kynan Dias:Not quite cover to cover, but to cover at least.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. No. No. No.
Lester Ryan Clark:We've we've we've looked at we've looked at some Genesis. Mhmm. We've looked at some gospel, and we've looked at the at the last
Kynan Dias:chapter. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. We know the rest. We know the rest. It begets and begats, you know.
Kynan Dias:Gog and Magog.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Oshgog and Magog.
Kynan Dias:You know? But I, yeah, I
Lester Ryan Clark:hope what we all take away from this isn't isn't fear of the end times or anxiety about, you know, the antichrist or whatever or or confusion about the the the millennium. I I hope that this brings hope. Mhmm. Right? And on that note, I am really, really excited about our next season.
Lester Ryan Clark:We're going back into the literary world. We're gonna be doing a season on Mark Twain. First thing we're gonna do is the mysterious stranger, which he published posthumously. Well, no. He didn't publish.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yes.
Kynan Dias:Powerful eerie.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yes. Yes. Yes. Might scare a fella half to death. No.
Lester Ryan Clark:No. But, no, there's there's, like, there's even an interesting story behind that story, the mysterious stranger. Apparently, there's lots of versions. So we're back to kind of, like, you know, the Faust thing again where there's, like, all the books and the chat books and the, you know, and the whatnot. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:But but before we even get to that, I want Keenan to see not even the full film Mhmm. Which I believe is called the adventure the adventures of Mark Twain. Mhmm. But we're not even gonna watch that whole thing. We might we might watch the the full thing later on.
Lester Ryan Clark:Mhmm. But there is a section. It's about five minutes long simply titled the mysterious stranger. It's a little different from the book that we are going to read, but and actually, for that reason, I want us to watch it first, and that's gonna be an episode all by itself. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:And I think in that episode, we'll either do, like, a mini Mark Twain bio or an explanation of the book that, we will then read, which has inspired this this little claymation clip. Mhmm. I don't know why I'm being coy, but I think I think, you know, if if you guys know what I'm talking about, you know what I'm talking about. Mhmm. As the kids say, if you know, you know.
Lester Ryan Clark:But yeah. So I guess that's your homework, folks, is to seek out the claymation film, The Adventures of Mark Twain, and just check out the little five minute clip probably titled on YouTube, The Mysterious Stranger. Okay.
Kynan Dias:We're gonna
Lester Ryan Clark:talk about that. And and that is going to catapult us into the book, The Mysterious Stranger.
Kynan Dias:Alright. Looking forward to it. These are twins that I don't know.
Lester Ryan Clark:Oh, yeah. This is well and and that's some of the controversy around it is how much of it was actually written by him because it was cobbled together by his publisher, I believe. Mhmm. And so there's question as to how much of it is his and how much of it is is this publisher. Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. But but, yeah, we'll get to that. But first, yeah, just see that little that little clip, and that's what we're gonna talk about in our first episode of our new season. Mhmm. And on that note, we will be taking a break.
Lester Ryan Clark:I think we decided about two months.
Kynan Dias:Yeah. Couple months, we'll see you.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Yeah. So it's gonna be one month of us prepping Mhmm. For our Mark Twain season and then one month of us recording and getting some episodes in the can so that we're never caught Mhmm. You know, without an episode Mhmm.
Lester Ryan Clark:For you guys. And so we'll make an announcement when we're about to return, but that should be let's see. Two months from now. So that's March to April. April to that should be in May.
Lester Ryan Clark:That should be so we should be coming back around mid May. Mhmm. So so look forward to that. Read brush up on your Mark Twain because because that's what we're gonna be doing. The mysterious stranger and letters from the earth.
Lester Ryan Clark:But for now, folks, this has been another episode of the Devil's Details. I've been Lester Ryan Clark. You can summon me on all the socials as Lester Ryan Clark.
Kynan Dias:I've been Keenan Diaz. You can invoke me on Instagram and Letterbox as Howdy Keenan.
Lester Ryan Clark:Yeah. Find more of our shows and other really cool podcasts at truestory.fm, or feel free to drop us a message at Banana For Scale Mail. That's mail@Gmail.com. We got our Facebook listener group, Banana For Scale. That's community for all of our shows, including this one.
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Lester Ryan Clark:Alright, folks. Until next time. Love and hisses.