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Convos with the creative folk shaping the arts and culture in the San Francisco Bay Area. Hosted by Shawna Vesco Ahern.
[00:00:00] Crowded Fire is a Bay Area theater company. We are an artistic home for fierce new plays trying to seed and nourish a contemporary canon, that is, reflective of the complexity and diversity in the Bay Area, uh, but also around the world. Wait, there's a little bug on you. There's a bug? There's a bug.
Wait, can we, can we like-
This is an art yap. It is an art yap. We're talking art yap. Yappity, yappity, yappity, yap. Art yap. Yappity, yappity, yap. Artfully, artfully, artfully, artfully. Yappity, yappity, yap. It's time
Welcome [00:01:00] back to Art Yap, where I gab, gossip, and otherwise chit-chat with San Francisco Bay Area arts and culture baddies about how they build community through creativity. I'm your host, Shauna Vesco-Ahern, and today I'm sitting down with two people who go way back, like High School Musical, grew up in Maryland, performing in Hair together way back.
Naileah Harper Malveaux is co-executive director of Crowded Fire, a Bay Area theater company that's been making fierce, boundary-pushing new work for 28 years. And Adeene Walker is a director and movement choreographer who's currently directing Crowded Fire's West Coast premiere of Manning by Benjamin Benne.
Manning is running September 5th through the 26th at Potrero Stage. Opening night is Saturday, September 12th, and it is, hands down, one of the strongest and most beautiful log lines I've heard in a while. Two brothers and their father, grieving the [00:02:00] loss of their mom, spread her ashes in a garden, and overnight, a five-foot zucchini shows up.
It's an exploration of the mysteries of life, death, parenting, family, masculinity, and what it means to build a new emotional language for grief. Because, as you'll hear, this script came out of the playwright's own decade-long, unprocessed grief for his father. The joy I found in grief was sitting with these two wonderful guests who have done some very deep thinking and intensive collective practice exploring the depths of what it means to be human.
This conversation is such a good reminder of why theatrical explorations of imagery, movement, dynamics, and language are so important in your daily life. So go buy your tickets to Manning today because you don't wanna miss it. Let's get into it.
Hello, hello. my name is Naila O nor le di de ne she a Harper Malveaux. and I am one of the co-executive directors at Crowded Fire. [00:03:00] Really happy to be here.
my name is Adeen Walker. I'm directing Crowded Fire's production of Benjamin Benne's Manning.
welcome to Art Yap, and thank you so much for coming on the show. This is, like, a long time coming. This is my first- Yeah ... theater episode- Oh, wow ... which is insane- Whoa ... when, like, all my friends are in theater. I grew up in theater here in the city. Theater is, like, essential part of why I fell in love with literature and literary arts.
Bro. And for some reason, it's taken me, like, whatever episode this is, 20 episodes, to get to theater, so I'm really excited to have you both here today. Have you been on stage? So honored. Were you... Did you ever do a show when you were, like, growing up? So here's the problem with being 6'2" in the '90s, you can only be Helena- Oh
in Midsummer, like, so many times. Mm. And there's just, you know, in the '90s- Yeah ... we were really just casting a particular- Yeah. Yeah ... type of person for every single role. Yeah. Um, which actually I was thinking about that earlier, like, how contemporary theater, driven a lot by millennials and zillennials- Mm
and even some Gen Xers, we've [00:04:00] really gotten out of that. We've, like, been working so hard, throwing ourselves against the establishment of theater- Yeah ... to really bring in new bodies, new perspectives, new people, and so it really becomes, like, the art for everyone. Like, you can be in that audience and, like, see yourself in that story and see yourself on stage, um, in a way that we just, we weren't doing it yet in the '90s.
Maybe we were trying in some pockets of the country, but we just weren't there yet. Yeah. Um, and when I think of Crowded Fire, like, that's exactly what I see in the mission- Yeah ... is really trying to, like, do storytelling and do theater for everyone. Um, let's look at my questions. Okay, so for the listeners who don't know, what is Crowded Fire?
Uh, what do you do, and why should any of us care- Mm ... in 2026? Yeah, there's a lot to care about in 2026. Um, yeah. Uh, so Crowded Fire is a Bay Area theater company. We've been around for [00:05:00] 28 years, actually. Um, and we are an artistic home for fierce new plays. Um, and so what that looks like on the day to day is we usually do about two to three productions in our season, um, normally, uh, premieres, West Coast premieres, so really trying to seed and nourish a contemporary canon, that is, reflective of the complexity and diversity- In the Bay Area, uh, but also around the world.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, and doing that I think with work that tests the boundaries of theater in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. and also, uh, is usually poetic. It's muscular. Bold, iconic, um, political often. Mm-hmm. and, I think is both intimate and really theatrical and heightened in some- Mm
in some really, beautiful ways. so that's our, our shows, and then also we're really, about, our Matchbox developments, um, uh, or Matchbox Reading Series, which is a [00:06:00] part of our larger umbrella of Matchbox Development. Mm-hmm. So really trying to support, artists, in their new play, new play development.
We'll, we'll get to this maybe later too, but, who's your audience? Mm. Who comes in through those doors? Who's sitting there? And who isn't- Yeah ... do you think? Like, who's missing? Our audience is a lot of artists- Mm-hmm ... a lot of, um, I would say, uh, like, people who are interested in not just seeing theater that affirms what they already believe- Mm-hmm
um, but are interested in going to something that, challenges them, um, that is going to, sort of disrupt their own complacency- Mm-hmm ... in a lot of ways. Uh, so that can be a lot of people. I mean, I think our work is for everyone, really. Mm-hmm. and, but we have... I would say our audiences are majority, uh, people of color, majority queer.
Mm-hmm. Um, we actually are... We were looking at some of [00:07:00] our demographics and, our audience is, um, I think it's, like, a 15% increase in, like, the disabled population or people with different abilities. And so- Very cool ... um, yeah, I think folks that, um, I mean, I consider myself to be sort of, like, uh, a multicultural but also, like, I think people who- who think of themselves maybe a little bit on the margins- Mm-hmm
you know? But we're putting the folks who have been on the margins at the center of the story- Mm-hmm ... um, because we are often at the center of culture-making. And so this is a special treat of an episode because you do have a show coming up. Yeah. Um, so I don't know if you wanna give the logistical deets so listeners have the opening date and title and playwright, and then it'll be fun to kind of talk about your broader mission and what you're hoping to do here, through the vehicle, of this example of this play.
Yeah. Um, so logistically- Mm-hmm ... uh, you can come see Manning, uh, starting September 5th through the 26th. Mm-hmm. And our opening night is technically, uh, September 12th, so Saturday, September [00:08:00] 12th. Um, and we usually have performances Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Monday, uh, at 8:00 PM, and then we have a matinee on Saturday as well.
Love a matinee. Me too. Can't stay up late, love a matinee. I love a Monday night show too. There's nothing else to do. Yeah. Come here. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And often- Yeah ... that's, like, the dark nights of theater, right? Mm-hmm. So a lot of... We- we really, I think, create a lot of work for other artists, so it's nice to be able to, um, have a night where if folks are in rehearsal- Yeah
they can come. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And this is the West Coast premiere of Manning, and I'm just curious, like, why here? Why San Francisco? what's so perfect about it- Yeah ... where you were like, "We have to do this"? Yeah. I mean, I have a answer, but do you wanna g- No, no, you... I'm curious. Okay, okay. Um, well, why here? it dives into so many things.
Manning is a gorgeous, surreal, sort of fantastic piece, um, about the mysteries [00:09:00] of life and death. and it's, you know, about two, Latiné brothers and their father as they're navigating the passing of their mom. they spread her ashes in the garden, and what emerges is a five-foot zucchini-
out of the ground. Um, and it's really about sort of, navigating grief. it's about masculinity in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. and what we sort of allow, the sort of emotional range we allow- Mm-hmm ... for men in particular, but also I would say for all of us. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that it's important to do it here because, you know, for the most part, this is a pretty progressive area, the Bay Area.
Mm-hmm. so I think we talk a lot about what we're trying to, sort of fix, right? Mm-hmm. In terms of toxic masculinity, domestic abuse, like, the manosphere, all of these things, right? I think we're, we're very focused on, like, what we're trying to destroy, which I think is good, what we're trying to [00:10:00] unlearn.
Mm-hmm. Um, and I think this show, knows that that's a given- Mm ... and is now interested in the sort of like, "Well, what are we trying to build?" Mm-hmm, yeah. What are we trying to imagine- Mm-hmm ... when we talk about a new kind of masculinity? Yeah. Um- You just hit on one of my other questions, 'cause I was like- Oh, yeah
finally, in the first time in a long time, we are having more discourse around toxic masculinity and these kinds of themes. And you see them on reels on TikTok or like- Mm-hmm ... you know, people's Substack, they have a little piece going on. Um, which is great, I love it, but I think what you're doing here in a staged performance might be, like you said, kind of trying to create some new path forward- Yeah
in a way where some of these other think pieces aren't doing that. And I don't know if that's also why you're interested in, trying to delve into this through just like a different medium. Yeah. I definitely... I mean, one of the things that I think is really, um, special and unique about theater is how nuanced and complicated and, [00:11:00] um, and embodied- Mm-hmm
you can really, um, it can be. and I think that that's what we need when we're talking about, like, healing. Mm-hmm. And, you know, bell hooks, in her book The Will to Change, which is one of the, one of the, um, inspirations for Benjamin and for this piece, uh, just talks about sort of like how we don't really allow, um, boys to fully feel their feelings.
Yeah. Um, and, uh, and that bottled emotion- Mm-hmm ... has consequences down the road. Um, and that she talks about sort of like patriarchal culture, um, dividing souls. Mm-hmm. And I think that the, what this play does in some incredible, in a way, through theater, is like, is looking for integration. Mm-hmm. Looking for wholeness.
Mm-hmm. What does it mean to be whole? What does it mean to, like, be present with someone else's- whole self. And that's hard- Mm-hmm ... 'cause that [00:12:00] brings up a lot, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I love, like, when we're talking about bringing bodies into this, you're the body that starts to bring bodies into this. Mm-hmm.
For our listeners who maybe don't know, like, what your role would be in a production, do you wanna explain to them a little bit about, what you do? Sure, yeah. Yeah. And I have one thing to add- Please ... that, that you made me think about, which is, um, there's a playwright named Sarah Ruhl- Mm-hmm ... who recently, maybe a year, a year and a half ago, published a book of essays dedicated to her mentors.
Mm-hmm. And she has one essay dedicated to Paula Vogel, who's a wonderful playwright- Mm. Mm-hmm ... um, where in the essay, Sarah Ruhl talks about how Paula Vogel encouraged Sarah Ruhl at one point to e- to explore loss- Mm ... but that it was like the sun, and you can't look at the sun directly. You have to kinda look at it from the side.
Mm-hmm. And so I think that's one way that theater allows us, like, that, part of the whole point of Sarah Ruhl's essay is how writing, writing new plays, and doing theater allows you to kinda look at the sun from the side- Mm-hmm ... and, and, [00:13:00] and how we face really hard things. Uh, it gives us a space as an audience, as artists, as the people making the work, to look at really challenging things in our lives, but through the craft.
Um, and what does that open us up to? Um, uh, and so you made me think about that essay. That's beautiful. Um, and yeah, that's a beautiful book. Sarah Ruhl's book is, uh, yeah, wonderful. Um, okay. And we'll drop that in the show notes. Yeah. Um, okay, my body. Uh- Your body ... we, we... Okay, so, um, okay, so, uh- 'Cause I think people think of plays as-
like, texts. Like, you get this script, and then people go up there, and they just read it- Yes ... to you. Yes. And that's not what we're doing. Yeah. I think... Well, so I, um, I started collaborating with Crowded Fire over a year ago. Um, Na'Ila was directing a piece last year. Mm-hmm. Um, and I collaborated with Na'Ila and the company to do movement for that show.
Mm. So I came in as, like, a choreographer and movement director. Um, we actually go way back. Uh, we [00:14:00] actually go way back to high school. We did-- We were both in a production of Hair the musical together. We grew up in Maryland. Um- That's amazing. Yeah. Wow, it's so crazy you both found your way here together.
We did. Yeah. Yeah, which is really beautiful. Yeah. Um, it's, it's a real joy to be able to make theater with, with your, like, deep friends, you know? Mm-hmm. Go from when you started, as you were talking about doing theater in your youth, like, it's always a cool thing to bring that into your adulthood. Yeah. I, yeah, I'm, I, so I started working with Card Fire in a movement director capacity.
Mm-hmm. Um, and I also work as a director, and I work as a director choreographer, but I, I, I did come up as a, as a movement, as someone dancing. Mm-hmm. Um, and I keep, like, leaning into this. No, it's fine. I'm watching your levels. But I have to be like, it's like I don't need to. Um, and I think I've always been drawn toward plays in particular that are movement-driven- Mm-hmm
or at least they're inviting, uh, a way of telling the story that is allowing us to, um E- e- [00:15:00] explore the possibility of physical expression in new and heightened ways, to use a word that Nailah earlier used, or also mystery- Mm-hmm ... another word that Nailah said. What I love about this play is, as Nailah said, it's the mysteries of life and death.
Mm-hmm. And I think, like, for me, there's something about how the play is, is noticing that feeling itself is mysterious. Mm-hmm. Like, I feel this feeling of deep sadness, or I feel this feeling of deep anger- Mm ... or, or love, like a really intense love, and how those feelings, we don't fully understand them.
Mm-hmm. You know? And, um, and movement and movement alongside language, alongside music, becomes this way not to, like, answer the mystery, but to just explore the mystery. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I find that writers like Benjamin, uh, and others are, are inviting us as collaborators to bring in a range of crafts in order to explore those kinds of mysteries.
Mm-hmm. Um, [00:16:00] and, uh, and I love that. And I mean, as an audience and theatergoer, when people are just walking around like normal, that's fine. There are shows for that. But when movement really starts to come in in particular ways, and you... it turns into like a dreamscape or like this other reality that's still your reality- Mm
but like augmented a little, there's something in me- Yeah ... that, like, can go deeper into it. Mm. There's like less of a wall between us, like me observing this thing. I'm the voyeur. When that starts to happen, something in me breaks down, and I can, like, get sucked in more into what's going on for some reason.
Mm. Mm. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I mean, what I think about a lot is the in-between space- Mm ... and how often, you know- Yeah ... I've had such an honor, s- super grateful to be able to come to some rehearsals and, um, sort of observe how you're navigating a sort of in-between space, um, a portal space- Mm-hmm ... between life and death, and it's not, it's not so- Yeah
binary in [00:17:00] any way. Mm-hmm. Um, but there is, uh, just a real, um, uh, I guess, excavation- Mm, mm ... of the soil of, of, like, this liminal space. and that's been, that's been a real joy 'cause it's, it's set in a garden, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so there's already so much life and death, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like there's decay, there's compost, there's- That's why we're in a garden right now
new
seedlings. That's why we're in a garden right now. Yeah. Very on theme. Um, so it's kind of the perfect place- Yeah. .. to explore what it means to, um- For, for mom to be in ashes and then to be in soil- Mm-hmm ... and then to be in an earthworm and then to be in a zucchini. When I was doing my light research, my googling- Mm
to kind of come up with questions for today, I did stumble across an interview or something where I realized that the script was written- Mm ... from Benjamin's own grief. Mm. And then all of a sudden I got like really nervous- Mm ... for [00:18:00] you, and I don't know why I would get nervous, but I felt like there's, there's so much weight in staging someone else's grief in a certain way.
Mm. And I was just wondering if you thought of it- Mm ... at all while you were putting this together, or if it's you know, not an important fact that it is written from a very personal space of grief. Mm-hmm. I'm curious your perspective. I, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I think, um... Well, the play includes puppetry. Mm-hmm. Um, Benjamin is a writer who's long been interested in puppetry, um, so it's really cool to see how he's woven it into the world of the play. And I come from a, a puppetry company. Oh. I, I used to work with, uh, Phantom Limb Company, which is based in New York.
Mm-hmm. They're a dance puppetry climate justice-focused company, and run by Jessica Grindstaff and Aaron San- Eric Sanko, and they're, uh... I was so grateful to be, uh, working with them as their movement director and their associate director. And, um, in one of the shows, we were working with, uh, Butoh dancers.
Mm-hmm. [00:19:00] Uh, this was a piece called Falling Out, about the 2011 tsunami and radiation disaster in Fukushima, which is already a trag- a tr- like, a catastrophe tragedy about loss, and, um, and, and, and how people survived that disaster, and people grieve that disaster. We were working with Butoh dancers and, um, and Bunraku puppeteers.
And one of the philosophies that sort of came out of that production- Mm-hmm ... and, and so I'm, like, heavily citing Phantom Limb- Mm-hmm ... when I say this, um, is that the puppeteer gives a puppet life, but the puppet gives the puppeteer death. And so that any interaction, performance with the puppet- Mm-hmm
becomes this very intimate and mutual exchange between life and death, so much so that when you work with the puppet and animate it, it's always kind of coming from a place of grief- Mm-hmm ... and always coming from a place of mourning the loss. And that, what that gift is to the audience and to the artist is an [00:20:00] ability to actually find joy in- Mm-hmm
in the fact that we get to grieve at all, and we get to take time to grieve. And, and the minute you sort of... In some ways, you kind of... Grief, I think, can also be an experience of not wanting to forget- Mm-hmm ... and so continually sustaining it. So theater becomes this kind of amazing thing that simultaneously is, like, deeply ephemeral, and yet is this play that's gonna live on for, you know, uh, on the text forever and ever.
And so we're always kind of in theater thinking about death, and loss, and grief. Mm-hmm. It, it seems to, I think, be at the core of the craft. Um, and there's just different ways that we engage with, with loss i- in ways that I hope allow us to create joy for the grief, and that that's a big part of the experience.
Yeah. I'm wondering, what do you want people to be thinking about, like, a week after they see the show, while they're sitting in traffic or just taking BART to work or whatever they're doing? What do you want to stay with them? What questions or what answers? Mm. Or feelings?[00:21:00]
That's a good question. Um, I mean, I... There's... Some of the images- Mm-hmm ... that y'all are crafting in the room, um, and that Benjamin is really asking you to explore, like, those have really stuck with me, I'll say, um, well beyond the rehearsals I saw them at, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, the sort of when you talk about the joy of grief, um, or of being able to take the time to really experience that collectively together, you know, our, our society does not allow us a lot of that.
Mm-hmm. and so I hope that people remember that it is okay to take that time. Mm-hmm. You know? whether it's a week after, a year after, 10 years after. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's what happened with Benjamin in so many ways, is that he was working on this piece and, and it was 10 years after his [00:22:00] father's passing.
Mm-hmm. But he never... He'll, he'll say this, like, he never really, um, gave himself the moment- Mm-hmm ... to, like, grieve when it happened. So this play is not necessarily his, like, a one-to-one auto, you know- Right ... biography, but it is, it is his, him working through- Mm-hmm ... um, what it means to push off grief. Yeah. It's also, like, a very- Yeah
necessary self-protective thing sometimes, you know? Yeah. You still have to go to work or care for other members of the family or do the daily grind, and then all hemmed in by grief and by our own finitude. Mm. And if you, like, sit with that too long, it can be very hard to, keep going. Mm. Yeah. Um, but then I, I think this giant squash, this big zucchini in the middle- Yeah
of this, like, giving some levity or some lightness or some, tonal shift to the heaviness, and I'm wondering how you're playing with that at all, um, through movement or otherwise. so you don't get too silly in a time of [00:23:00] sadness, or maybe, maybe it helps it. I dunno. Um, we're deep in the rehearsal process right now.
Yeah. Um, so you, you bring such great questions- Mm-hmm ... that I think we're always kind of looking at. Yeah. Um, uh, I think, and, and I, you know, we're both, we're both directors- Mm ... we work with actors and work with techs, and I think in some ways we've often talked with each other about, like, comedy and tra- you know, there's always these kind of similar things going on at the core of, of these genres.
Yeah. Um, everything is very- Mm-hmm ... high stakes, and so one of the joys of theater is getting to go this way and that way, and, and it's always kind of grou- or it can always be grounded, or we're searching for a way in which whatever sort of tone we're balancing is being rooted in a very kind of raw human experience of just trying to get through.
Mm-hmm. And, and that can look really funny one day, and that- Mm ... can look really hard another day. Mm-hmm. Um, so I'm always curious when we're doing plays h- how, sometimes even when previews- People laugh, like I'll go through an experience or a process where like people [00:24:00] will laugh and I'll be like, "Oh, that was funny?"
You know? "I thought I was devastated." Yeah. "But you find this funny." So it's always kind of... So we have a few performances that are previews- Mm-hmm ... that we're technically still in rehearsal in, but audiences like are there, you know? Mm-hmm. And that's where we also are continuing to make changes to the staging and things like that.
But we learn- Try it out on the 8 to 11 year olds first. They'll let you know. Yes. I... Yeah, that- that- that's terrifying actually. Oh, yeah. But, but I'd be terrified. Um, but yeah, we learn a lot from the audiences', like res- responses- Mm ... uh, in the room, which is really fun. Um- And knowing too that it's like that is...
They're also going through their own stuff. Yeah. You know? Like when someone laughs at a moment where I was like, "Wow, that's-" Yeah ... wild, um- Yeah ... I'm also like, oh, wow, that, they're going through something that is mysterious to me. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, and there's, there's not just joy and grief, right? Mm-hmm. Um, I think in so many ways those are sort of coupled together, but there's also [00:25:00] so many different colors in the palette of like what is being brought up and surfaced.
Mm. You know? Whether that's rage, you were talking about before, um, regret- Mm ... you know, love. there's, there's just so much that I think comes to the fore. Mm. Um, so allowing all of that to exist- Mm-hmm ... is like, I think part of the joy of putting something on stage, right? Mm-hmm. And experiencing it in an embodied way.
Yeah. I love that. I'm thinking- That was really good. I'm thinking more about your question- Yeah. Mm ... about w- the audience going on Bar, like what are we- Oh, yeah ... what do we, what do we think or what are we curious that they might be- Mm ... questioning or, um... I find myself more and more sitting with how the play is also a kind of portrait of parenting.
Hmm. In a way that it's taken me time in the rehearsal room to actually really kind of [00:26:00] feel and, and, and see. Mm-hmm. Um, and we have conversations in the room about kind of families and, and building families. Hmm. Um, and that there's this kind of quiet layer that the play is also looking at about kind of forgiveness and repair, and I think I'd be curious how audiences might, you know, go home on the Bart from the show also just kind of looking back at like their own experiences with forgiveness and repair- Mm-hmm
and, and what that can look like in our own lives. Um, uh- That's just a quiet layer of the play that I'm thinking about a lot recently. Yeah, I really love that. That's so true. Yeah. I would love to get 40 people who feel like theater isn't for them, and get them in an audience for this show- Yeah ... just to see how it feels for them.
Yeah. I feel like out of a lot of plays that I've read, and this one I've just heard about, I haven't read it yet, like this one really is something for everyone-
You asked about, you know, why this show now- Mm-hmm ... um, [00:27:00] especially in this community and for Crowded Fire, um, is I think we are also navigating, how to sort of metabolize all of the grief that is, around us both, like, in the world, that we receive, you know, uh, on our feeds- Mm
um, but also, like, in, in our, in our lives. And, um, I mean, Adeen and I do go way back. Mm. And also, in the, um, last production that we did, The Last, The Last of the Love Letters by Ngozi Anyanwu- Mm ... incredible, incredible play, um, uh, one of our dancers, um, one of our actors, Dari Blue, passed away- Mm ... very shortly after.
and it was a moment of a lot of earth-shattering- Mm-hmm ... grief, um, uh, where you're sort of like this has, has shifted, everything. Like, the ground doesn't feel- Yeah ... [00:28:00] um, solid. Mm-hmm. and so I think doing this together in a lot of ways, like, I've been really interested in how we can- Use our artistic practice, but also just being in community to, to navigate that grief.
Mm-hmm. And it's... But it's hard because we don't really... Our society, as you were saying earlier, like, does not give us a lot of time- Mm-hmm ... to, um, to have the range of emotions that are really valid- Mm-hmm ... in grief. and so I, I just, I wanna say that because it's been a, it's been an, already sort of a healing process, but also, I think this, this play, in its exploration of grief, um, is, is something that I feel is really necessary right now.
Yeah.
Yeah. Would you like to ask the magic eight ball a question, a yes or no question?
Yeah, go for it. I know it's- Yeah ... really heavy. Yeah. I was thinking about this. Mm-hmm. [00:29:00] Um, uh- Yeah ... this is actually based off of a conversation we had. Okay. Um, I don't know. Do I wanna ask that one? Just do it. Yeah, just do it. Yeah, just do it. All right. Uh, does free will exist?
For the queer theorist in the room. It is certain. Oh. Ooh. Oh.
Whoa.
You have to do yours ... free will? Okay, I'll do mine. Um- ... mine was, like, a silly one, but now I kinda wanna do it, like, a less silly one. Um- Whatever you wanna do I told you this is always, like, the- Yeah
pendulum of people. Yeah. They're like, "I wanna ask, like, a serious one, but I don't know if I want the wrong answer, so I'm gonna ask a silly one." Okay. This came up in rehearsal recently. I was playing some Frank Ocean music. Mm-hmm. It's now the 10th anniversary of Blonde, his album Blonde- Oh, wow ... I, I think.
So we were listening to some Frank [00:30:00] Ocean, and we were talking about how are we ever gonna get a new album from Frank Ocean. Mm. So I guess- All right, eight ball. Ugh, I hope so. Oh, God. I'm invested
Oh. Cannot predict now. Wow. Whoa. Mysterious. Okay. Well, it's not a no, though. Mm. It's just, it's a no for right now. Yeah. I can't predict it right now. Yeah. Well- But why does the magic eight ball, like, what's going on with the magic eight ball? Is there something wrong? She's busy. I don't know. Yeah. It's part of her process.
She's out of office. Or maybe something's happening out in the world that's, like, red taping another album, and that has to resolve itself. Oh. Oh. And she's, you know what I mean? It's a whole thing. Yeah. It's hard, it's hard to be all-seeing. Maybe Fran Gersh doesn't know. Exactly. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Aw, it'll be nice.
I don't know. I don't know the rules. It'll be nice. I don't know the rules of the magic eight ball. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Um, I'm really inspired by the work that you do, and I hope this show [00:31:00] is an absolute smash hit. Thank you so much for this. This was such a joy to talk with you, and yeah, thank you.
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