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Geek Therapy's anime and manga podcast.
Josué (00:01.676)
Welcome to Otaku Ryoho on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. And here on Otaku Ryoho the media we care about the most is anime manga. My name is Josué Cardona and I'm joined by Rae Hoover.
Rae Hoover (00:19.195)
Howdy.
Josué (00:20.716)
Rae, I did not commit to a topic last week. And it's because I w I wasn't I wasn't sure, but I'm I'm I'm sure now. I I've been thinking I'm gonna talk about some spoilers for One Piece. Okay? Okay. If people coming out swinging, I gotta do this right off the bat because I think it's the best example of that I can think of. So spoilers for
Rae Hoover (00:36.251)
Okay, coming out swinging.
Josué (00:50.986)
1100 chapters or episodes into One Piece. Trust me, I mean we did a we did a Geek Geek Therapy Radio GT Radio episode years ago about this research regarding spoilers, basically saying that when you spoil things, like it actually makes it better. So that thing made me that that has always made me more open to spoilers. So anyway, this is you you've been warned, you had enough time to over.
To your phone and turn it off if you don't want the spoilers. But there's something that happens, right? In One Piece. And specifically what I'm talking about is Gear 5. I don't I don't even know if it's r r called Gear Five. I like right. I know it's a time where we're all like, he's gonna hit a new level, right? And so you've brought up multiple times on the show already because you can't stop talking about One Piece.
Rae Hoover (01:23.675)
Exactly.
Rae Hoover (01:36.923)
Yeah, I think it is.
Josué (01:49.145)
That One Piece is all about freedom and Luffy wants to be the most Frieren. And when he levels up to what people call year five, and I'm not gonna call it anything else but that, right? He he essentially, I think, I think it's so perfect because he does become so.
Rae Hoover (02:03.749)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (02:15.17)
Frieren. I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm like I'm using your words here, right? Even though I'm using them not the way you intended, right? But he is so Frieren that he is actually Frieren from all restrictions and restraints, right? Where at this point not even the not even reality basically like he is constrained by, right? He is able to warp the space around him. And the way that we see this
Rae Hoover (02:35.131)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josué (02:44.686)
He basically becomes a Looney Tunes character, right? And so I've been thinking about that that phrasing, right? Like imagine you're watching a shonen and suddenly it becomes a Looney Tunes cartoon, right? And a lot of people are already put off by the art style. A lot of people are already put off by the length. A lot of people are put off by multiple things about One Piece. And
Rae Hoover (03:04.315)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (03:14.094)
There's some people, I'm sure, who you would tell them, it basically Luffy turns into a Looney Tunes character, with like his his eyes popping out of their sockets and and and just like the space around him becoming a cartoon, right?
Rae Hoover (03:25.765)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (03:33.559)
And would be like, that's too much. That's like that goes too far. Like, I don't know. Like, you know, I was okay with him like being stretchy, but like that just I'm sure someone has said it's unrealistic, blah blah blah. All of these, everything I'm saying is based on true stories, just not necessarily about one piece, right? Like there are different versions of this, right? Or people will be like, It's too much. it's too different, I don't know, it's too goofy. I don't really like that, right? But me?
Rae Hoover (03:51.583)
okay.
Josué (04:02.674)
I honestly think, and I've already said, like, One Piece is not my favorite show. One Piece is not like, but I like One Piece a lot. And I think that Gear 5 is one of the coolest things I have ever seen in my life. And I think about it often. And I s and I think about it in so about for so many different reasons. And I think it is the coolest thing. And every time it happens, and he taps into that, I cannot stop.
Rae Hoover (04:09.488)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (04:13.891)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (04:32.422)
smiling okay and I'm I'm bringing this up because I think that that example right is perhaps the peak the epitome of what I wanted to get at today which is when I hear of an idea that is so out there so crazy something it just
Rae Hoover (04:33.507)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (04:48.603)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (05:01.058)
There isn't a single cell in my body that wants to move away from that. Like it is, I'm just like so attracted to that. I'm like, what? Like the yes, I want to see what that is. Part of it is like an affinity for novelty, but but in it it's also just like an openness, right? Two things that are different. I'm not discounting.
Rae Hoover (05:18.767)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (05:30.072)
Comfort media. I have shows that I will rewatch again and again, right? I have things that there are types of we've talked about shonen before, right? Like a lot of shonens, very, very similar. Even when we talked about my hero, it's like it's probably like it does a lot of the same things that a bunch of other shonen do, right? That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate another good shonen, right? That speaks to me in different ways. It's just like hi.
Rae Hoover (05:51.547)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (05:57.263)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (05:59.823)
quality, it's like hit hits all the beats, right? Like hits all the right beats, the same ones that all the other shows hit, it's fine. It hits them again. Perfect. Like there's a spot for that. But then there's other stuff, right? And so like again, Gear Five is one example. I started watching two shows recently. Just a just a show to give I was I was I was with a friend. We were at an event building Gundam model kits as one does, right?
Rae Hoover (06:28.185)
as one does.
Josué (06:29.351)
On International Geek Day in Barcelona, by the way, which is like a whole thing.
Rae Hoover (06:33.263)
We have a whole international day, I didn't know this.
Josué (06:36.45)
They have one in Spain. I don't know about other places. but they do. And it was like in the middle of the city, it's like International Geek Day. There were there were like concerts and s and stalls and like and I I built a Frieren Gundam model kit in like one of the most tourist plazas. Anyway, so on this day, I'm just talking to my friend. We go to the Bandai and Amco store, as one does after going to build some some Frieren model kits.
Rae Hoover (06:38.863)
Damn.
Rae Hoover (07:01.859)
as one does.
Josué (07:06.12)
And we're looking at all the gacha the gacha pawn machines and he's he points one out to me. He's like, I've read that manga, it's really cool. I was I don't know what that is, what is it? He's like, it's called Undead Unluck. It's about this guy who cannot die, and this girl who's really unlucky. And so together they do all these crazy combos and stuff. Like, she'll have she'll give him
So much unluck, like such bad luck, that a meteor will hit him. Like fall from the sky and hit him. And when he said all this to me, I was like, this is I I need this in my life, like right right now. And I've been watching it for the last couple weeks, and it is so much fun because it is playing, it has established a set of rules, and it's like I I've never watched a show like it.
Rae Hoover (07:48.207)
Yeah.
Josué (07:59.843)
I'm sure if I really think about it and you know, maybe listeners are like, that sounds like this, this, or like it's similar. I'm sure there are some other shows that are like just as different. I'm gonna use the word different, right? But I was like, this is and it just it just the joy that it has brought me. Just incredible. And then around the same time, I started watching this other show because I I I watched the video online, and this person was saying, I just watched a show where
This guy, who's a professional assassin, comes from a family of assassins. The elders told him he needs an heir. And he doesn't have an area. He doesn't even have a girlfriend. He doesn't even know he's been so sheltered, he doesn't know how to talk to girls. He's a disaster. So he's talking to his sister. His sister is a lesbian. She has a girlfriend. And they force the sister, they tell her, if you if your brother doesn't have a baby.
You're gonna have to come in and we're gonna you're gonna have to have a baby. And so he's like, I don't want this to happen to my sister. And so when he's going to assassinate somebody in particular, it just turns out that this person he was going to kill is a professional matchmaker for people in the underworld. So he's like, If I don't kill you, will you help me? He technically actually proposes to her and she says no. but then and then they come to this agreement. So the show is called Marriage Toxin.
Rae Hoover (09:03.493)
Jeez
Rae Hoover (09:07.162)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (09:20.773)
Amazing.
Josué (09:29.516)
It's about this assassin who uses poison. That's where the toxic part comes from. He's a poison assassin from the poison assassin clan. And now he needs to learn so he's every episode is him going on dates. It is it is so funny. It is so so funny. And they're like, What do you do really well? You know, and like he's just like over and over, he's just like failing at all these dates, but he's like he's really good at his job and it's just so silly.
Rae Hoover (09:34.895)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (09:43.609)
That's fun.
Josué (09:59.757)
And I can give other examples like this and but there's I feel like this happens a lot in anime, right? And I and and so there's something about like when I'm feeling down or when I feel wanna feel some of that joy, right? I need some novelty. I will go to anime first before anything else. There's some there's some other stuff, like I don't I don't know if do you ever watch K dramas? You ever So there
Rae Hoover (10:08.325)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (10:21.051)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (10:27.611)
No, I haven't gotten into those.
Josué (10:30.018)
So there's there's two in particular that I'm thinking of. one is about this girl who's a psychic who she can read people's futures but only if she touches their butts.
Josué (10:42.082)
So she get it even works on animals. I forgot the name of it. But there's another one called Chicken Nugget. It's about a girl who gets turned into a chicken nugget, and her dad and one of his friends have to protect her so that she can they can bring her back to be. The look on your face is so is so is so good. so these are these are real shows. These are real things that exist and that are out there and that are and that are crazy. I I
Rae Hoover (11:00.187)
These are insane, I wanna watch them.
Rae Hoover (11:08.475)
The fact that those last two are not anime is mind blowing. Like trying to think of how that looks in a live action sense is hilarious to me.
Josué (11:16.738)
They are live action Korean.
think they're still considered dramas, but maybe there they there is definitely comedy there. But these are Korean shows. the actually I I was playing I was playing the Gundam card game today at my local game store. Yeah, and someone brought up they were like they did say something like like the Koreans are more Japanese than the Japanese now. I don't know if that's like I don't know how true that is, but at least in the media that I'm being exposed to, I've thought the same thing.
Rae Hoover (11:26.875)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (11:34.905)
Mm-hmm, that one does.
Josué (11:51.513)
I'm like, is that is that Korean really? It's a or is that Japanese? I think no no, it's Korean. Like you gotta get on you gotta check out what the what's coming out of Korea. So these these things bring me bring me great great joy. And I think that that that is the angle that I wanted to to to come at this episode on. like and and I'm curious I'm curious to hear your thoughts and reactions about this as before we we continue.
Rae Hoover (11:51.599)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (12:00.186)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (12:21.339)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (12:21.582)
What is your reaction to not just the chicken nugget show, but the idea of destroy like the can you relate to that? Is there like is this something that attracts you to to anime as well? have you thought about it this way before? Tell me what you're thinking.
Rae Hoover (12:42.191)
Yeah, yeah, no, this idea does like really resonate with me. That like, you know, anime has, it's best to go into anime with an open mind. And if you want, if you're seeking something new and novel and exciting and something that hasn't been done before, you're gonna find it in anime. Like there's some wild stuff.
And yeah, all of that, man, I wanna watch those shows now. Like every show that you mentioned, that sounds like right in my alley for something just weird and silly and I love it. I think that's why anime has always appealed to me because it's so expressive. It's got so much energy and so much life to it. And it's funny and it's slapstick. like, if you're bored watching One Piece,
Like, what are you doing? Like in some of those like really like, especially like preach time skip, some of the shenanigans are very shenanigan-y. Yeah, yeah, no, I, yeah. I agree with everything that you're saying here. I kind of forgot the leading question. I'm not gonna lie.
Josué (13:59.151)
Yeah, I I do think anime like there's there's all sorts of anime, right? But that piece about the how expressive it is, I I think is a big part of it. Where for example just
Rae Hoover (14:06.671)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (14:18.496)
I used to know a person who wrote a comic book for autistic kids and he and he chose an anime style because he was like, It won't look out of place if we make if we exaggerate the features, right? When we're doing this. Now, like bringing up Looney Tunes and stuff again, right? Like w we had that eighty years ago, but it's like it's so it's it's very different, right? Like you Looney Tunes is Looney Tunes and that's it, right? Like you wouldn't do that in
Rae Hoover (14:31.397)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (14:50.134)
an action cartoon, right? Or even like or or like because it looks a particular way. It has to look that way. And in in anime in general, I think you're right. Like it is very expressive. Not every show is bonkers. Like some of the some of the things that we're we're talking about. Not every show is one piece. Right? Where don't I always forget his name. Donquixote Doflamingo? Is that is is that his full name?
Rae Hoover (14:57.572)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (15:07.387)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (15:18.363)
Yeah, that's his full name, his Christian name.
Josué (15:19.95)
With it like I I don't know, just like people have names like Don Donquixote Doflamingo in in in One Piece. One Piece is is is is such it like the fantasy there, it really does feel like anything is possible. And even within that world, Luffy's leveling up is still surprising because it literally takes a world where anything is possible and then also says
Sometimes someone can even break the rules of that world, and you're like, what does that even look like? And they're able to do that. Right. Because like there's still gravity, there's still physics, right? Not when Luffy hits gear five. All the rules are are out the window. And so in anime, I feel like something like that is possible in many different ways, right? And like some of the tropes
Rae Hoover (15:55.12)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (15:58.864)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (16:03.95)
allegedly.
Yeah, exactly.
Josué (16:19.47)
that you'll see an anime like like like when somebody's horny, like they'll bleed out their nose, right? Like people don't really bleed out their nose, right? Like it's a it's a it's a funny thing. And then depending on on the show, it'll either like be a drop that's like a couple drops coming out of their nose or they're just gushing blood.
Rae Hoover (16:37.701)
or is know, Sanji getting rocketed by his nosebleed.
Josué (16:40.97)
Exactly. He will literally like fly off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man, Sanji, that's a whole other thing. But but I I I do think, right, like so all of these things kind of things are possible in in anime in a way that isn't really in and I'm gonna compare it with Western media because it's like it's the most common thing. I've like, I love science fiction. I love I love fantasy. And
Rae Hoover (16:44.197)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (16:51.355)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (17:04.112)
Yeah.
Josué (17:10.776)
Like what what would you consider? I'm curious, what would you consider your favorite western TV shows or or movies? Like, do you have favorites?
Rae Hoover (17:20.786)
Avatar The Last Airbender, for sure, is up there.
Josué (17:23.084)
Avatar levels at airbender. Okay. Okay. I would say
That is a very good show, but not like like people have powers, but like pff who doesn't have powers nowadays, right? I don't think it goes anywhere crazy re like I'm I'm trying to think, right? Of like outside of like it has very clear rules, it is established, right? Like I think I th I I also like Avatar, the last airbrender a lot. Yeah. I wouldn't put it into the category of some of this wild stuff. What else?
Rae Hoover (17:51.888)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (17:58.096)
Yeah. But also, like, Avatar is very anime inspired, like intentionally anime inspired and just like Asian culture.
Josué (18:07.03)
Mm-hmm. So it fits in in so part of that is why you think you like it as much as well? Okay. Okay. Cause it's anime coded. Okay.
Rae Hoover (18:12.975)
think so, honestly, like. Yeah, yeah. I didn't watch it like when it was actually airing, but you know, when I watched it as an adult, I'm just like, yeah, this is kind of this is kind of just an American anime in a way.
Josué (18:27.734)
Interesting. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (18:31.233)
What else? What else am I? What else do like? I like Invincible.
Josué (18:37.294)
Okay? Yeah?
Rae Hoover (18:39.503)
which is a lot.
Josué (18:43.276)
Never talked about Invincible. Invincible is my favorite superhero comic book. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Actually, for many of the for probably all the opposite reasons of everything we're talking about here. Because for me, it is the most like what when I was reading the comic book, I was I always thought I would do it. It was the first time I was ever like, I would do what
Rae Hoover (18:46.969)
Really? that's fun. Okay.
Rae Hoover (18:55.599)
Yeah.
Josué (19:13.302)
Alan is his father, Mark, what Mark would do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, he seems very like a very realistic portrayal of a person with superpowers and the decisions and how those decisions play out and how they affect him and all that seem very realistic. So that's a that's a that's a great contrast.
Rae Hoover (19:13.423)
Mark? Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (19:22.327)
Yes. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (19:29.515)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. It's. Yeah, and that's that's exactly why I like Invincible, too, is like it's so grounded while being. Yeah. While being like still like supernatural and fantastic. But it's so grounded in the humanity and like the depiction of a person and the struggles of the individual person and the pressure and the depiction of trauma and like PTSD in Mark, especially it's like. *hand gesture*
Josué (19:39.392)
It is the most grounded, yeah. Yeah.
Josué (19:58.777)
Yeah. Marking everybody else. But yeah, yeah.
Rae Hoover (19:59.586)
So well done. Yeah, like, and that show is show slash comic is gruesome. It is graphic.
Josué (20:06.956)
I do yeah, I do think the show is done a really good job. But but I think the show yeah, it it it shows it it it even more illustrates the contrast of like the the points that we're making here. Yeah, but I yeah, I love Invincible. Yeah, it's funny, we've never talked about it, but yeah, it's my favorite comic book, superhero comic book. Yeah. Love it. Okay, okay. I thought about it, and my favorite Western media properties are like
Rae Hoover (20:18.747)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (20:23.088)
Wild.
Josué (20:36.75)
I d I don't these might change, right? Again, we've talked about this. We're not nobody hold us to to what we say our favorites, RJ. But like among my favorites are like movie wise, right? Like I really like at at the time it it I felt the same way about it, which is Sc the Scott Pilgrim movie, where it does things so have you read the comic book?
Rae Hoover (20:55.777)
I've never seen that.
I have not, I need to, honestly.
Josué (21:01.398)
Okay, so not an anime, but I the comic book is like full of references, right? It's just it's it's reference soup. Very fun. I really like the comic book. The movie is more like The Mask and Hoof and Roger Rabbit. Okay, in the sense of like
Rae Hoover (21:24.74)
Mmm.
Josué (21:27.042)
They do video game stuff. They do cartoon stuff. They do anime stuff in that movie. And it is
I was I would probably have talked about Scott Pilgrim back when it came out, the way I talked about Gear Five Luffy earlier today. Where I'm like, the fact that they did it like this, and I won't say specifics, but it's like it's that kind of melding. It's like it is not a typical movie. It is not what you would see. It is visually and thematically unique or at least very special, I think.
Rae Hoover (21:42.107)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (21:51.226)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (21:59.068)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (22:02.518)
I'm leaving it at that because I'm talking about that framing, but things happen there where you see it and you're like, this is incredible. Like this is this is not this is not a typical American movie. Yeah. My my favorite like animated TV shows are honestly like South Park and Rick and Morty. Like Rick and Morty is so is is everything that we talked about the anime before, which
Rae Hoover (22:08.431)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (22:20.623)
Mmm. Fair.
Josué (22:30.038)
Which is actually funny that there is a Rick and Morty anime. They've made there is a season of Rick and Morty that is not the Rick and Morty show. It's the Rick and Morty anime. And there's a full season where it's all anime style. But the show itself, like it didn't it didn't need to do that because it is it already is. Right? There is an episode from I think it was last season. I think it's called Attack of the Numericons or something like that, which is basically like they're a riff
Rae Hoover (22:49.797)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (22:59.252)
on the Transformers, but all the Transformers are either numbers or letters. And some of the jokes like it is so ridiculous. And some of the jokes are just but it is the way it is like it makes you the the jokes are like have like seven levels to them and it's crazy. And it's like that's the kind of stuff that I like that just brings me joy again, right? But those are those are more exceptions, right? Which is like going back to what you said before. Whereas
Rae Hoover (23:21.595)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (23:28.874)
it is the n the it is the norm in in anime, right? Like like Rick and Morty I would not be is is probably one of the craziest animated shows that I can think of, but it's definitely not the craziest anime. Right? Like in in isn't that crazy on chicken nugget. I mean it's about it's about chicken nugget level for sure, on a regular basis. That sounds like actually the chicken nugget thing sounds like an episode of Rick and Morty. Yeah, so it's just that
Rae Hoover (23:34.341)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (23:43.343)
No.
Rae Hoover (23:54.607)
Honestly, I can see that.
Josué (23:58.701)
So so I think there is a big contrast. Sure, there's some overlap, blah blah blah. But like in general anime, like as a genre, I would gravitate more towards that first bec because of these things. And so again, I do know people who are like actually I don't want to say it like that. I mean there are people, right? Again, without going into like the big the the five factors, personality stuff, but like openness is a trait, right?
That we can look at from from that perspective or just in general, right? Like, are you open to new ideas? Are you open to new experiences? Are and and yeah, I mean, a lot of people are not. So I can see and I've had that experience many times. I wanna share anime with the people. The people don't want the anime. It's too different, it's too weird.
Rae Hoover (24:49.537)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, too different, too weird, too much, too annoying.
Josué (24:55.244)
loud, too bright, too everything, right? Whereas I'm I'm the opposite, right? Like I want I want I want Lisa Frank Rainbow Bright at the very least and I want wild and crazy action. I I just watched have you ever watched Kill Bill
Rae Hoover (24:57.614)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (25:09.605)
Yeah, exactly.
Rae Hoover (25:18.491)
I have, it's been on my watch list for years.
Josué (25:21.848)
They just released like it came out as two movies and they just remastered it in 4K and all that. And it is one of those movies that's like it is so it is Western in what it's doing, but it is it it has it just does stuff. It it is and it also it has a lengthy anime sequence in the middle of it. Of the live they do a recap and then they just go into full an an actual anime.
Rae Hoover (25:37.935)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (25:50.37)
From a Japanese studio. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (25:50.384)
You know, it's really funny because I remember when Kill Bill came out. I don't remember what year it was, but I remember I was too young to see it, but it really appealed to me. Like, even as a kid, I was just like, I really want to see this like someday. And obviously I could not. And I still have not. I'm just not a big movie watcher. But like hearing that, that just vindicated like younger me so hard as to why I was drawn to it.
Josué (26:00.291)
Long time ago.
Rae Hoover (26:17.381)
And I didn't even know, like I hadn't seen anything about it. I've read about it in like the paper and stuff, but.
Josué (26:17.571)
Yeah.
Josué (26:23.372)
It is it is highly stylized. Stuff in the movie, like it is it is I heard someone describing the term camp the other day, right? Like the idea of camping as being more like like it's it's more like a like a winking at the at the at the audience, right? It's like check look at what we're doing, right? Like we know this is like may not even fit the world, but wink wink, check out how cool this is, right? Like we're gonna do this thing, or like it's funny.
Rae Hoover (26:25.551)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (26:39.162)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (26:48.335)
Yeah.
Josué (26:50.796)
And we know that it's funny or that it it doesn't fit, but we're doing it anyway. and so the movie is full of that. And it is it is it is great. I I I I like to but it falls into this category of like if I need to watch an action movie, a revenge story, I really like Kill Bill because of some of the things that it does. And
Rae Hoover (26:54.906)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (27:17.584)
Yeah.
Josué (27:18.934)
It changes genres throughout. Like it does it does a lot of things and then it does actually have have anime in there. which I think is very fitting for not only our conversation, but like he when he told wanted to tell a part of this story, it was like how can we be more expressive? How can we give show more emotion? And it does do there's there's actually a part where somebody like
There's a a whimper, right? Like like the idea of like like they're they're like this soft sound is coming out of their mouth and then the words whimper come out and they like grab them in midair and bring them back in. Right. And so they did that in the anime piece of it, right? That Scott Pilgrim would do it in live action. Something like that, right? Like that's the kind of thing that happens. Where like things like popping up in the middle of the air. It's just very different. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (28:01.477)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (28:08.389)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (28:14.243)
I love shit like that. You you mentioned Who Framed Roger Rabbit as an example there and that like I hadn't remembered that because brain, but Who Framed Roger Rabbit is absolutely one of my favorite movies of all time. Like just. I no, I never got never saw that one. Like I said, I'm not a big movie watcher.
Josué (28:27.438)
You watch the mask?
Josué (28:34.466)
The mask does something similar where it's like when Jim Carrey puts on this mask
Rae Hoover (28:40.027)
He becomes the Looney Tune.
Josué (28:41.358)
He becomes Gear Five Luffy in i in a sense. and it is at the time, I haven't watched it in so long, par in part because I'm afraid of how bad the the CG looks. I don't know because I remember it very vividly. Roger Rabbit, no issue there. Cause that's just that's just painted, right? I mean it's like it's like it's drawn on, it's animation. Not a problem. But I am I am concerned about
Rae Hoover (28:43.855)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (28:54.627)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (29:02.575)
Yeah, it's gorgeous.
all the practical effects.
Josué (29:09.686)
But it is it is definitely worth watching. Like it is so fun. And it's because of that, right? Like it's mixing these worlds. Like, how is this thing existing here? But even where that's like, how is this thing existing here? Some of the anime examples I provided, that's just like the whole world is like that. Have you I'm gonna bring up one more example that's like recent and very popular. Have you seen Spy Family? Are you familiar with Spy Family?
Rae Hoover (29:26.821)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (29:38.936)
Spy family. yes, Spy family. Yeah, yeah. No, I I was sorry. I was thinking Western stuff and I realized I was thinking of spy kids and I'm like. No, spy family was exactly what I was thinking of when you were talking about the marriage toxin. I was like, that's Yor forger 100 percent. Like Yor my beloved. I love her.
Josué (29:46.762)
no no no no no anime. No no no no anime. No no no no no
Josué (29:57.23)
Mm.
Yeah. Right? So like if you haven't watched Spy Family, it's a it's a very you know, your normal of the mill show about a spy who's on a mission, but to to complete his mission he realizes he needs to infiltrate a school. So to infiltrate the school he decides he should get a kid. So he adopts a kid that can go into the school and then
he kind of along the way is like, I should probably have a wife too. So he convinces somebody that he meets Rita to to be to pretend to be his wife and so that he can infiltrate to school. But the father the the the his wife and his daughter don't know that he's a spy. The father and the mother don't know that the child can read minds, and the father and the child don't know that the mother is a professional assassin.
Rae Hoover (30:40.517)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (30:54.981)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (30:59.685)
Yeah.
Josué (31:00.716)
Also the dog is clairvoyant. Right? And so, you know, but it's like pff you know, it's like it's your normal family shenanigans. So it's like and I love that it's one of those shows where it's like, Okay, these are our four ingredients. Let's mix up let's see what can happen if we mix these four things together in different in different quantities every week. Let's just see what we can cook up. And it is so it is so so funny.
Rae Hoover (31:02.703)
Yeah, there's that too.
Rae Hoover (31:07.643)
normal slice of life, definitely.
Rae Hoover (31:20.272)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (31:29.966)
But yeah, so so I I d I was thinking as as we're I was preparing for the for this talk that one thing that I don't support is the idea of using media for diagnosing people. Right. And so I'm going to give a caveat to that, right? And I'm curious, like I I wanna discuss it because I haven't because in general
Rae Hoover (31:50.042)
Mmm.
Josué (31:58.861)
I don't like the idea of someone being like, you like horror movies, or like, you like heavy metal, right? I'm trying to you play D&D, right? And then you and then there's an assumption about the person because they like these things. Geek culture, historically, full of stuff like that, right? Like, you're a nerd, that means XYZ thing about you. In the geek therapy world, we can we can take those conversations way deeper, right?
Rae Hoover (32:06.811)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (32:17.721)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (32:21.594)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (32:28.054)
Over it's like but peop but people do make one thing is to judge someone because of their favorite media. A different thing is like your therapist making like I'm talking about diagnosing, like literal diagnosing, like, if you like this, you're you know, you might be depressed, right? Like no no no, like those that type of thing I think is not okay. Yeah, sure does. Yep. Yep. I mean a lot of that is just based on biases, right?
Rae Hoover (32:46.415)
that happen?
Oh my God. Ring ring hello board?
Josué (32:57.026)
Well so so so much of that is just your your biases, right? Like you may like y you're you're thinking you you you have assumptions about people who like a certain thing. Because it may not even be it may be based on, well, all of my other clients who like Death Note are suicidal, right? I'm making again, I'm th this I'm making up, right? But like you know, if they like Death Note
Rae Hoover (33:07.792)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (33:21.274)
Yeah.
Josué (33:26.07)
I know what that show's about. you know, good it and it's it's like an extrapolation of like, they play shooter games, they must be a violent person. It's all bullshit, but like how how much do we have to deal with that constantly, right? So if like if you know anime or you know different media, right, you can also come to these assumptions. So I don't like that. Here comes the but. In the case of some of the stuff that we're talking about, right? Like if you tell me that you like
Rae Hoover (33:39.195)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (33:54.921)
one piece I'm making certain assumptions about you, right? If you tell me right, I make an assumption about people. I make an assumption about and then and then sp specifically this openness piece, right? So if you tell me that you like wild and crazy stories, I I I'm probably going to be biased towards thinking that like, you're open to new experiences. You're open, you're open to new ideas.
Rae Hoover (33:59.098)
And what are those assumptions? Tell me.
Rae Hoover (34:20.975)
Yeah, the positive bias.
Josué (34:24.854)
I don't I don't I s I still think it's a bias and I still I I don't think it's good and it's and it's most definitely not true a hundred percent of the time. Right.
Rae Hoover (34:31.855)
Yeah, there's positive bias and negative bias. And in this case, if you hear someone's open to like new things in anime and wild and weird stuff, it's like, okay, you see that favorably, that's positive bias.
Josué (34:44.44)
Yes, yes. Doesn't mean it's true, right? And it also not necessarily productive, right? So I don't think people should use it this way either.
Rae Hoover (34:50.233)
Mm-hmm. But it's also human. We just do it.
Josué (34:55.704)
Correct. Yes. Yeah, which is my point about all of the but but where it where it's dangerous is the diagnosing part, right? Where I'm like I'm like, just don't don't make assumptions about people because they like this stuff. in a in a in a clinical setting. Because I think if you again you can make the the your biases can go either way, like you just said. So I don't think but again, here's the but I I do think that there are there
Rae Hoover (35:02.146)
Yeah, absolutely.
Josué (35:25.726)
And again, super biased here. A hundred percent. I've I've spent I've been gushing about the joy that these things bring me. Right. So if I hear someone is like, I like this, I'm like, a hundred percent like they're gonna like this other crazy thing, right? Or like, I'm sure they're open to different ideas. And that really doesn't translate to to everything, right? But they're there but they're I definitely see it in in my case
Rae Hoover (35:39.589)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (35:54.659)
There is an openness to a lot of like new ideas and a lot of different things. And this is like one way that it manifests. And it's the pattern that I was seeing that I like I've been noticing recently, right? Where it's like it is something that does bring me joy. And probably of the things that most bring me joy. Like I'm like I I have ADHD and you know.
Rae Hoover (36:01.925)
Yeah, exactly.
Rae Hoover (36:07.995)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (36:22.408)
from getting tested, right, there is this attention piece to it where there is if something isn't novel, the moment that something gets like I was I was thinking of different anime like Isekai. Isekai are the type of anime where someone gets transported to another world. The Western versions of that are Narnia, Alice in Wonderland, Wizard of Oz, right? So as an anime genre, it is
Rae Hoover (36:33.371)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (36:37.125)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (36:50.414)
Probably one of the goofier ones as well, but it's also a trope now. Like it's like even even the idea of truck coon, the idea that like you get hit by a truck, it's so funny that even new Isekai are like, let's let's do the truck thing too, because that's funny. Somebody gets hit by a truck and they wake up in another world. I think that I think that's so funny.
Rae Hoover (36:51.995)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (36:58.359)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (37:05.86)
Yeah.
Yeah, the local con, like my home con last year, the theme was isekai and they literally had like a cardboard cutout that you could take photos in of truck kun and then be in the in the driver's seat. And then someone usually was like sprawled out on the ground in front of it in cosplay. Brilliant.
Josué (37:22.722)
Yep. That's how you isekai. That's how you get sent to another world. And but like, okay, so like ev everything everything is new once, right? And then just because something is an isekai now, I'm like, I've I've seen so many isekai. I'm not necessarily that interested. And I've tried to watch a few that have like pretty crazy premises and I'm like, meh, it's another isekai. It's not like right.
Rae Hoover (37:35.397)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (37:45.455)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (37:51.108)
Yeah.
Josué (37:52.693)
so even even the most novel things can can can stop being novel, right? It becomes it's a whole genre now, right? Like there's so many of them. so it's also hard and and it has to do with trends as well, and you know, they go go up and down. But this is one of my favorite things. So I'm I'm I'm curious. You you you seem to have a couple of reactions to the
diagnosis and assuming things about people regarding different types of media. I'm curious what what what you were thinking there.
Rae Hoover (38:29.017)
Yeah. The thought that someone would have like a hard snap judgment in a clinical setting and just going, you like this one thing that means you are automatically this diagnosis, that is mind blowing. And I truly hope that it does not happen. If anything, I definitely use in the geek therapy sense in clinical setting, I use people's interests in media and like everything like that as information.
data points, it's like crumbs that make up the cookie, essentially. It's all stuff that's relevant. If someone's telling me about themselves and telling me about what they're struggling with, they're struggling with focus issues. And we start talking about, what kind of hobbies and interests are you involved in? What kind of shows do you like? And they're like, I love...
Anime, I love the weird shit. I love stuff that's like high energy, stuff that I can binge through real fast and then move to the next thing that's interesting. I get bored really easily. It's like, okay, that's clinical data, you know, for, you know, the larger picture. But yeah, taking one little like data point there and saying, oh, you are 100%, you know, your whatever diagnosis from that is like blatantly unethical. And I...
I have the board on speed dial and my finger is hovering over the call button if someone's actually doing that.
Josué (40:02.138)
Yeah. It's it's more common than you think. yeah, yeah. It is it is concerning. But I I do like the way you're you're bringing up like even some of the stuff that I do in the in the GT trainings, right? Where it's like, hey, if you know that somebody likes this genre, maybe there's other things in that genre that can that can help us that can launch us conversation starters for a particular thing, right? And they'll and they'll be way more open to
Rae Hoover (40:05.763)
I hate it. I really hate that.
Josué (40:30.36)
Like I'll be war way more open to a kind of a goofy anime or a a creative novel story that is like non traditional versus a
Rae Hoover (40:40.955)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (40:47.682)
like a slice of life high school drama, right? Anime.
Rae Hoover (40:49.168)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (40:52.751)
You know, in the same vein, if someone is like, I don't watch anything new. I've only watched this one show and I literally, when I finished it, I just started over. And it's the only thing I've watched for the last 15 years. That's also clinical data. That's also something that's like, okay, what's going on there? What's that about? Is it that you're not open to new experiences? Is it that like everything else is so hard? Is it an access issue? You just simply don't like, you have this one set of DVDs that's the only thing you watch.
And like, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a clinical, clinically significant thing in that case, but there's a lot of context around all of these things that need to be explored.
Josué (41:29.09)
Yeah.
Josué (41:32.951)
Yeah, yeah. As a data point, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the problem is always w once you start making assumptions on that. But just one those are all those are all really clear like questions to ask about something like that. And it it and but it also doesn't have to mean anything, right? Like you said, like it doesn't have to be clinically significant like, that's just like your favorite show. It's your comfort show, cool. And maybe some other day you can like go into why like
If the themes of that show are necessarily appealing. It could just be some people like to watch things just in the background. The sounds that come from that show and the visuals are soothing. I'm not really paying attention. It's just comforting to have it on in the background. May have something to do with predictability, may not, right?
Rae Hoover (42:24.377)
It also might have to do with attention that it's like, I need to have some stimulation on in the background, something that like, isn't going to be too unfamiliar in that it draws my attention. It's familiar enough that I know I can kind of safely tune it out, but it's something going on back there that I can focus on whatever else I'm doing. Like that's a completely different presentation of the same concept that is being presented there.
Josué (42:46.348)
Yeah. Yeah. For me, if you if you look at it from just a behavioral sense, right, I'm the type of person who
And I'm glad I saw some research on this the other day where they're talking they were talking more about the sleep disruption piece of ADHD and they were framing that this particular study looked at how ADHD in A people with ADHD, when they engage in high focus tasks, their brain starts going into sleep mode.
Rae Hoover (43:25.755)
That's yes, 100%.
Josué (43:27.618)
Right. And so like I did I did a YouTube video about this like ten years. I've only ever published like two videos ever on my personal YouTube channel and one was about intrusive sleep in ADHD. And still like ten years later, every now and then I'll still get a comment on there and somebody's like, I never heard of this before. Now there's a lot more research. Again, when I learned that it was called like there was being called intrusive sleep in the literature, I thought that was
Rae Hoover (43:36.251)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (43:41.602)
Mm, yeah.
Rae Hoover (43:49.019)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (43:56.375)
super helpful because that's my presentation of ADHD for the most part, where if I'm bored we we've talked about like reading subtitles. Like that is a that is hard to do. If I start reading subtitles, I will fall asleep even if I'm watching Gear Five Luffy. Right? I need so so in in so behaviorally for me, even though I'm saying it brings me great joy, another way that I could talk about it is that honestly when I'm watching something like
Rae Hoover (43:57.486)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, same.
Rae Hoover (44:07.749)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (44:11.929)
Yeah. Yeah.
Josué (44:26.316)
Rick and Morty, something like undead on luck for the first time, I feel alive. Whereas many other things that I have to do on a regular basis, like work, right? Depending on the work and different tasks, it is literally a drag, right? Like I am it is my brain is fighting me. I feel exhaustion, right?
Rae Hoover (44:34.853)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (44:42.235)
Alright.
Rae Hoover (44:48.859)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (44:55.163)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (44:55.98)
My body's like
not doing this now. I'm like, but I gotta, I gotta do the thing. Let me go through. Where then I go and I'm again, I'm watching Undead Unluck, and I'm like, I I could I could I'm so awake. I'm so alive. It's such a different experience even even physiologically. Like it is it is my body feels different. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (45:21.861)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (45:26.553)
Yeah, it's like we finally got hooked up to a live wire and it's like, hell, holy shit, hell yeah, that's what I've been waiting for.
Josué (45:34.083)
Which again, I don't think we should be using for these things for diagnosing, but the clinical data that's being collected here, like you said, the different data points is valid. If I if I'm giving you Did I did I have I told you how I got diagnosed with ADHD? So I was working as a therapist, I was supervising people, I was supervising a program, and I was unable
Rae Hoover (45:41.455)
No, no.
Rae Hoover (45:47.962)
Exactly.
Rae Hoover (45:53.157)
No.
Rae Hoover (46:00.62)
wow.
Josué (46:04.3)
To complete my notes.
Rae Hoover (46:07.521)
the bane of most therapists, honestly, but especially the ADHD-er therapists.
Josué (46:11.266)
I could not do it. I kept falling asleep. I would fall asleep on my desk, wake up at 3 a.m., try to keep doing it, fall asleep again, because my body was always like, No, we don't want to do this. Wanna do something else. Like, okay. So a few months go by and I start feeling very, very anxious that I'm gonna lose my job. So I go to a therapist and I'm like, my anxiety is through the roof.
Rae Hoover (46:22.245)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (46:43.318)
Mr. Therapist says, Why do you feel anxious? I'm I'm afraid I'm gonna lose my job. Why are you afraid you're gonna lose your job? Because I can't get my notes done and I'm really behind. Why are you behind on your notes? Why can't you get them done? because I literally pass out when I try to do when I sit down to do my notes. I am physically incapable.
Rae Hoover (46:50.96)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (46:56.365)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (47:10.043)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (47:12.386)
He's like, okay, anxiety's not your problem. Of course, the irony, very, very common experience. The therapist is unable to see their own diagnosis. That's just like so obvious. He's like, I'm like, I'm like, wait, what? He's like, you should go get tested for ADHD. And and one of one of the digital tests that I took, I remember it was like, you know, they have you do this boring task.
Rae Hoover (47:15.461)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (47:28.037)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (47:33.529)
Yeah.
Josué (47:42.029)
And they're measuring your attention and it's like it's literally like a cliff. Like like my brain literally just like slowed down so much. They were like, yeah. Like this is like obviously, yeah. everything you said seems pretty accurate. Yeah, that's it. That was that was that was my my ADHD diagnosis. I was like thirty, thirty one at the time.
Rae Hoover (47:53.187)
Yeah, it's like slam fucking dunk.
Rae Hoover (48:00.945)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (48:11.024)
Yeah.
Josué (48:11.842)
So and I had been a therapist for a while, so it was very it was very funny. That happens to a lot of therapists. You're unable to see your own like what is and I like, I I know anxiety when I see it. Diagnose people with ADHD and I couldn't see it in myself. It's so funny.
Rae Hoover (48:18.361)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (48:28.41)
Yeah.
Josué (48:30.232)
But definitely again, like good clinical data there. If I'm telling you, man, I can't do my notes. So I sit down and I watch an episode of One Piece, and suddenly I'm wide awake. And then I go and I sit down to do my notes again, and I pass out. And then I came back and I watched this, and it's it's it's good, good, good info right there.
Rae Hoover (48:48.057)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (48:54.213)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (48:58.126)
There was there was one thing, one more thing that I wanted to mention along these lines, and it is I feel like it has gone away from me. So I'm gonna ask you a very generic question so you can start talking about something so that I can remember what it was that I wanted to say.
Rae Hoover (49:19.617)
You're baiting your own brain basically.
Josué (49:22.142)
Yep. Yep. Yeah. So how does everything I said make you feel?
Rae Hoover (49:24.955)
Hashtag ADHD life.
Rae Hoover (49:33.536)
the most therapisty question ever, first of all. Yeah. No, yeah, it makes it makes a lot of sense. I resonate with it deeply. Even just kind of like the last talking point around the ADHD and the intrusive sleep, like not me literally falling asleep at my desk after a very intense day of focusing very hard and then just like like as soon as it's done. Yeah, yeah, it's.
Josué (49:36.686)
Most basic question, yep.
Rae Hoover (50:03.437)
important to kind of like take all of these things with a grain of salt, but also as context, making up a larger picture for every single person. And yeah, like I would not be shocked to see if there has ever been a study on this of like the correlation between people who watch anime and openness slash an ADHD diagnosis. That would be an interesting thing to kind of explore in research.
if it hasn't been done already.
Josué (50:34.37)
I've never read something like that. It does sound like something that could potentially fit into the Therapeutic and Applied Geek and Gaming Culture Journal that we've just launched.
Rae Hoover (50:47.611)
Hashtag self promo.
Josué (50:51.0)
Hey, I I I I I think it's I think it's a good idea. I think it's interesting. I've never looked that up in particular. Never even had this conversation exactly like this before.
Rae Hoover (50:59.355)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (51:02.939)
I'm as horrible as I am about like reading research and because it's But I've read 10 books this year. Thank you very much. And I'm still I can I physical books. Yeah, I have a whole stack out there. Yeah.
Josué (51:08.396)
And reading, period.
Josué (51:12.704)
I don't believe you. Like physical books?
What? How do you read physical b I don't like I'm I'm incapable. Like
Rae Hoover (51:21.787)
This is the book I'm reading right now. This is how big this fucker is.
Josué (51:26.028)
I'm I'm and I'm dead serious. Like I c I cannot read like w I start reading to fall asleep. And I it usually takes less than a page. But I've already I mean, I think I've already c painted a pretty clear clinical picture of of my situation. So I'm impressed that you've read ten clinical ten ten books. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (51:32.336)
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Rae Hoover (51:45.584)
Yeah, yeah, I didn't read for many years and I mean college and everything just kind of like squashed that out of me. Like forced reading in high school really like killed that love for me. I was a big reader as a kid and then it became like, no, you have to do all this like required reading in school. And I'm like, these books suck. They're so boring. And then then it became like you have to read all these textbooks and shit. And I'm like, OK, I can't.
I can't do that. I can't read for pleasure anymore while I'm doing that because that's the only thing I want to read is the stuff that I want to read, the fiction. And I can't focus on that. So I kind of had to like put that aside for a long time. And the last book I read, I think, was around 2019. And that was even like a one off. I hadn't done anything for a long time. But in the last couple of years, we're in a literacy crisis. And I've connected with a wonderful feminist.
local indie bookstore in my area. And I started going there and hanging out and, you know, I've connected with the community there and that's really gotten, it's been a big process of like, I call it pre-gaming dopamine in the sense of ADHD that you have to like engage around the thing before you can engage with the thing. And so I did a whole bunch of that like pre-gaming, engaging around it, building the community and like.
hearing other people talk about books and stuff like that. And that's like what got me back interested in it. And I read five last year and I've already doubled my goal. My goal for the whole year was 10 and I did that in six months. So I might, I don't know what my new goal is, might be 15, might be even 20, but yeah.
Josué (53:15.17)
Yeah. Yeah. Ma makes sense?
Josué (53:30.904)
Make yeah, yeah. No, I I like I like the pre game way of saying it. because the the way dopamine works, even if j now you've set it up so that the reading the book that's not the payoff. The payoff is the discussion later with the with the with the group, then it changes the context around the reading. You can still enjoy it, but it's also like now that the reward is something else. It's not just the story. Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Rae Hoover (53:47.259)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (53:50.799)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (53:55.388)
And the reward for definitely was the accomplishment. I knew I could do it. I knew I was capable, but it was figuring out how to build it back into my life in a way that didn't take that energy and didn't become a drag. was something that I looked forward to. And the amount of pride I felt at finishing my goal last year of hitting five books when I hadn't read anything for pleasure in minimum five years, if not longer, like,
I needed that, I needed that so desperately, just to prove to myself that I could do it, because I knew I could. But then doing that, I was like, yes. And it felt like it unlocked something for me.
Josué (54:36.526)
Do you does this also apply to manga? Like like do you categorize picture books and non picture books separately?
Rae Hoover (54:46.841)
Ironically, I really have not like I have a couple of like graphic novels and I've read some in the past I even read some in college. I like surprisingly enough like for required reading. I Just don't gravitate towards those normally like There's there's manga there's like, you know catching up on one piece every week or something like that I do not do that reliably I kind of absorb that like through osmosis or you know through to engaging with community I kind of absorb it that way but
Josué (55:14.51)
Okay. Okay.
Rae Hoover (55:17.421)
Yeah, sitting down and actually like reading manga or reading like a graphic novel or comics that that part has not been like integrated into my life in the same way. But I still keep up with it and like in true ADHD fashion by cutting corners.
Josué (55:27.574)
Okay.
Josué (55:33.675)
I'm gonna comment on something you said, not to discuss it now, but just like for as as a form of putting it on the record to maybe r revisit it another day, which is no no no, the idea of ca you described something that I've seen in my nephew, for example, but it's representative of other things where it's like my nephew knows more about a lot of anime. Like he he he knows as much about One Piece as I do, and he's never watched it.
Rae Hoover (55:43.579)
You're gonna call me out on not reading manga.
Rae Hoover (56:01.467)
Yeah.
Josué (56:02.028)
He's never seen anything chronologically. He's seen clips from all the stuff. He knows how things have happened, how the characters are connected, and it's all because he's seen it through YouTube shorts. Right? And it's like and so you just described kind of that, right? Like, you know, I'm like I don't I don't really read the manga reliably, I think is the word you said, right? So like I'm not consistent, but you know, I know what's going on because of the community and stuff. That is that is wild to me.
Rae Hoover (56:20.217)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (56:27.205)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (56:27.614)
and I mean because I see it happening, right? And it and and it and it it is impressive, right? I have opinions on on on on that, but it's still impressive. Like to the degree of of
Rae Hoover (56:42.03)
Mm.
Josué (56:48.064)
And and the type of fandom that that is, right? Like like, like this is a fan who like watches everything and reads everything, and this is a fan who like does the osmosis thing that you described. That's that's interesting.
Rae Hoover (56:50.683)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (56:59.055)
Yeah, I feel like at least for me, it's very ADHD to just kind of like absorb by osmosis. I did that in school. Like in high school, I never studied. I was that guy. I never had to study because I just absorbed everything and I have a very strong context specific memory. So go into the same class as every day or whatever, when I'd be in that seat in that room, then it's like, it would just kind of come back to me. So.
I do tend to just kind of do that. I gravitate around and I just kind of absorb things just from being in the spaces.
Josué (57:33.932)
So like I said, I I I I I would love to like maybe someday touch on that aspect of fandom someday. I think it'll be cool. But what you just described about like I'm I'm assuming I picture you in school distracted, thinking about other stuff, and still somehow
Rae Hoover (57:49.925)
Minimum one to three songs going through my head at any one time when unmedicated.
Josué (57:54.519)
And still somehow being able to do okay on the test, right? Even though you weren't paying attention. So I was I was the same way. And so the last thing I wanna bring up is as part of this conversation is the I I I love this concept of like meta GT, right? That I w where it's like, do we see it in the media like represented and like we can bring it out, right? So
Rae Hoover (57:57.48)
yeah, I was pretty much a straight A student.
Rae Hoover (58:14.491)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (58:23.66)
What you brought up is a perfect segue to baiting worked, and I did remember the thing that I wanted while you were talking about it. so there's two shows that I think are great to show the experience of what I'm saying that I'm experiencing about anime. I think that there are two anime that show these experiences really well. One of them is called Tonari no seikun, and the English translation is the master of killing time.
Rae Hoover (58:31.845)
Hell yeah.
Rae Hoover (58:41.967)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (58:54.011)
Ooh, this feels very relevant.
Josué (58:54.828)
It is literally, it is literally a child in in the back row of a classroom, and every episode is about how he entertains himself through class. He's building things, he's drawing things, he's doing stuff. It is it feels autobiographical, even though I didn't make it. You know, I'm like, did I make
Rae Hoover (59:06.999)
no. no, I'm being called out.
Rae Hoover (59:19.567)
I'm in this picture and I don't like it.
Josué (59:21.08)
Did I make yeah, did I write this? When did I when did I make this? This fucking plays about me. It is, it is, it's called the Master of Killing Time. It is hilarious. But it is exactly this. It is a kid who just like cannot pay attention. And he is and then the funniest part is that there's a girl sitting next to him who's watching and just like in awe of all the things he's he's
Rae Hoover (59:23.269)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (59:27.705)
Yeah, I like, how'd you get this picture of me?
Josué (59:48.025)
Building and doing at on his desk in the in the the back corner. Amazing. Okay? Like you gotcha. And the other I also like these shows a lot, but it's because they they ring so that they're like so close to me. The other show is called Love, Chunibyo, and Other Delusions. And Chunibyo is a term in Japanese for
Rae Hoover (59:51.675)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (01:00:03.707)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (01:00:17.954)
and I I I don't know if this is exactly accurate, but it's like kids who live in a make believe, like make believe world. Right? Like, who are constantly living in their imagination, basically. and so Love, Chunibyo, and Other Delusions is about this girl who for example, she wears an eye patch to school, and when you ask her, like, is are you okay? She's like
Rae Hoover (01:00:28.091)
Mm.
Josué (01:00:47.426)
Yeah, the demon king blah blah blah cursed me. And if I take this off, like the power that would come out of it would just like destroy everybody. So I need to hold back. Right? And everybody's like, What are you talking about? Like like right. And so people are just like, What? And and then she sees things, for example, like she she she will have an argument with her sister, with her older sister. And then you start seeing the world through her eyes.
Rae Hoover (01:01:04.239)
Mood.
Rae Hoover (01:01:16.229)
Mmm.
Josué (01:01:16.908)
And like the sister is like coming after her with like a ladle and then and and and she has an umbrella and suddenly it turns into this battle where like her her umbrella is turning into like this buster sword and the ladle is like this giant shield thing, right? That can like call down like meteors like it's just like and then she starts and then sometimes the perspective will shift and then you just see a kid like wow wow.
Rae Hoover (01:01:44.027)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (01:01:46.233)
playing, you know, like waving an umbrella around, but then it goes back to like, like she's calling down, like stuff like this. And it's it's that, right? Like she she feels so comfortable. And actually the I mean the show's actually pretty great in in the sense that you learn how it's very much her way of dealing with trauma from her childhood where she creates these the she imagines these different things, ways of protecting herself, right? And so but she really doesn't connect with
Rae Hoover (01:01:47.076)
Yeah.
Yeah. God, that's a mood.
Rae Hoover (01:02:12.059)
Hmm
Josué (01:02:15.052)
people unless they are willing to play these types of games. That's so so there's other kids, right? Who are like some are more reluctant, some are like really into it, but it's it's like living in this world of of imagination. And it's I I think it's great. But it it it's it's one of those things like these two shows are great examples of like kind of how how I I was definitely that way when I was a kid. Where it's like the world is so
Rae Hoover (01:02:42.011)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (01:02:45.134)
Boring.
I need extra flavor on all of this, right? Right? Yeah. And so like again, especially the kid on his desk, right, with like all the stuff like I would play out all of these scenarios with just an eraser and a pen and and I used to draw over all my desks and and stuff like that, right? Like I'm building something. And then the Love, Chunibyo, and other delusions I think is is again a a great showing of this. It it
Rae Hoover (01:02:49.623)
Mm-hmm. I'm crafting a whole series of something in my brain while I'm doing whatever boring-ass shit.
Rae Hoover (01:03:05.604)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (01:03:15.618)
Does a lot of good mental health stuff. I don't remember if we if I ever did an episode. That might be a cool show to to revisit. I don't think we ever did an a show on it. it might be one of the lost episodes, actually. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure. Could you talk to the editor about that and see if see? make a note. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But those are two that I think right, not
Rae Hoover (01:03:21.796)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (01:03:25.935)
Hmm. Now I'll have to keep digging into that archive we found. yeah, let me let me let me call her up. Hey, me at me, Spider-Man pointing at Spider-Man. Get on that.
Josué (01:03:43.979)
It it's a very different from what I was saying before about like making an assumption about like using something for diagnosing in the in the sense that you're making assumptions about why the person likes a per a particular thing or what type of people like something. And this is showing that experience of being like maybe this is the intro this is what it looks like internally, right? For someone who's like super distracted or like
Rae Hoover (01:03:57.797)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (01:04:06.224)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (01:04:10.434)
This is like of course someone who s views the world this way or needs to view the world this way in order to even get by would be interested in something like or they would think that Gear Five Luffy is the coolest thing they've ever seen.
Rae Hoover (01:04:18.255)
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (01:04:26.907)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (01:04:30.018)
So that's that's all I had to say about this particular topic. You can have the editor call this episode whatever they want to call it. 'Cause I don't have a name for it.
Rae Hoover (01:04:42.893)
Yeah, look, I always come up with something. I mean, the editor always comes up with something, whoever she is, this mysterious being.
Josué (01:04:48.642)
Yep. Any any closing thoughts on this?
Rae Hoover (01:04:52.355)
No, this was fantastic. And I have many shows now I'm adding to my watch list.
Josué (01:04:54.222)
Cool.
Josué (01:04:58.378)
do you want to commit to a to a next episode? You do? Okay. All right.
Rae Hoover (01:05:03.353)
Yeah, yeah, I can commit to a next episode. Sure.
I figured, let's talk about Frieren Let's talk about Frieren next time.
Josué (01:05:08.76)
Do it now.
Josué (01:05:14.124)
It was on my mind the whole episode because it is it is up there for me with how cool I think Luffy is, but it is a complete opposite in many ways. Not in every way. Not in every way. But in many ways. It is it is very different. But it's because it resonates emotionally. just as strongly, but in for different reasons. Okay. Frieren, what about Frieren? Just just just Frieren? What about it?
Rae Hoover (01:05:24.315)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. It's very different.
Rae Hoover (01:05:34.831)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Rae Hoover (01:05:42.363)
Frieren has a concept and I mean, think the overall theme there is grief. talking about, like, I know personally, like when I first like heard about Frieren and the concept, I was like really kind of resistant to watching it because I thought it was going to be too emotionally like just stab you in the freaking heart over and over again of like pain and regret and everything. And it's like, that's not the angle it takes. And I think it's a really
Josué (01:05:49.346)
Hmm.
Rae Hoover (01:06:11.515)
wonderful way of looking at grief, a different way. And Frieren does something really special. And I think we should talk about that.
Josué (01:06:14.826)
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Another one of my favorites. All right.
Rae Hoover (01:06:24.195)
I was gonna say, I think you said that was one of your favorites ever. Maybe your favorite thing ever.
Josué (01:06:28.642)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll try to shut up for most of the next episode so we can both have a lot to say. Have a lot to say about that one. Cool. All right. So that's it for this episode of Otaku Ryoho. Like Rae said, we've mentioned a few different shows. they'll be in the show notes. Check out some of them. Let us know what you think.
Rae Hoover (01:06:35.011)
No, please don't.
Josué (01:06:53.258)
Visit geektherapy.org for all things geek ter geek therapy. Network.geektherapy dot org for more podcast episodes and shows. And yeah, reach out to us at any time. Remember you to geek out and do good. And we'll see you in the next one.
Rae Hoover (01:07:08.944)
Yeah, toodles.