Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Laces Out Loud is an NWSL and women’s soccer podcast about the game on the field and the forces shaping it off the field. The show blends match analysis, supporter passion, and bigger-picture conversations about player welfare, league growth, media coverage, business, technology, and soccer culture. We are here for the goals, the tactics, and the chaos - but also for the questions that determine whether the women’s game can grow with the ambition, care, and investment it deserves.
Wow. We quoted Martha and Mulan in this Yes.
Pamitha:Two bad ass warrior princesses. Yep. Welcome back, listeners, to another episode of Laces Out Loud. I am and as always, I am joined by Guruschabad.
Gurushabd:How's it going, guys?
Pamitha:And Ali. Hello. Going great. How are you?
Gurushabd:I'm fantastic.
Pamitha:Yeah. I'm feeling feeling very good after that second game for the women's national team.
Gurushabd:Guess who's back?
Pamitha:Back in in the the gate. Shady's back.
Gurushabd:The Rainer.
Alli:The Yeah. Best
Pamitha:It's been... It was a great, as always, weekend of NWSL action on the heels of the international break. Very glad to see the women's national team pull a draw out. If you haven't heard our live reaction episode, please go ahead and give a listen to last week. We're, you know, very pleased that they they managed to put together a good second half.
Pamitha:What do get? You guys... Any any last thoughts on the national team before we dive into the NWSL? Ashley Sanchez.
Gurushabd:Ashley, yeah. I just think people need to stop freaking out and, you know, trying to read too much into these two games. I think they did what we needed. They were good friendlies. We got a lot of players, some more experience, and kind of pointed out where we need to work on for this upcoming year.
Gurushabd:But I think saying players should be off their roster or not, we don't know what happened at camp. And, yeah, I'm I'm sure it was a positive camp overall, and people are just trying to create something out of nothing.
Alli:Yeah. I totally agree. We have World Cup qualifiers coming up in November. And while the competition certainly won't be the level that Spain was, that's the stage at which we can say, you know, make make more judgments than an international friendly against the world's best team even with missing many people. And, yeah, I think think that some of the reactions are extreme.
Alli:Some of the takes are extreme overreactions.
Gurushabd:Yeah. And I was, you know, making my coffee this morning wanting to ask you guys, at what point do we say the US women's national team had successful World Cup next year? Is it only gonna be if we win or if we make the finals? And I was, you know, wondering what fans will think we had a successful World Cup if we do what.
Alli:That's a great question. I think for the team, they would be disappointed with anything less than a win. I feel like that's the standard that they set. Yeah. At which then we sort of all follow and expect as well.
Alli:Yeah. I think, I mean, I will... I would take an improvement over 23.
Pamitha:Think to me it's tiers. I think we need to win the group. If we don't win the group, that will be viewed as a failure. Then I think we need to advance to the final, if we don't advance to the final. Ali, to your point, we need to do better than we did last World Cup.
Pamitha:If we don't advance to a final, I think there'll be a failure. Then Yeah. You know, it's a coin flip if you win or not. Right? Like, the the the rest of the world is really closing the gap in terms of talent and quality.
Pamitha:So if we get to the final and we lose to a squad like Spain, which we did already, then I don't think that's considered a failure. I think that's a success. The players, obviously, they're in it to win it. But from a fan's perspective, while... Sure.
Pamitha:When in it to win it, anything short of a victory will be this... A disappointment, but I think if we... I think we have to reach the finals to consider the World Cup next year a success. Anything short of that, do think will be a failure. And whether we win it or not, I think that'll be great.
Pamitha:Let's add let's add a fifth star to the crest.
Alli:Yes. Let's do it.
Pamitha:Yes. Yep. The drive for five.
Alli:Yes. Yeah. It also raises an interesting question because, you know, there are people, myself included, who have said, you know, oh, in 2023, if things had gone a little differently, you know, we could have made it to the next round. And it raises the question of, you know, pretty soccer and victories versus ugly soccer and victories. And, you know, is it just a win if we don't play well but get some lucky bounces and get there versus if we actually play really well and look good, versus hitting some unlucky bounces and not getting as far.
Alli:Yeah. I don't know. Lots lots to think about. That's a great pre coffee question. My early morning thoughts are not that good.
Pamitha:The NWSL resumed action this weekend, as we are very close to the playoffs, concluding week 25. So obviously we will be talking about Washington Spirit's victory over Gotham, one nothing that we
Alli:Sorry, what was that?
Pamitha:Washington Spirit's victory over Gotham.
Alli:Oh, thank you, thank you.
Pamitha:Washington Spirit's victory over Gotham.
Alli:There we go, got it that time.
Pamitha:It was needed for many different reasons. Also, we will talk about San Diego taking out North Carolina and solidifying their number two position, and Seattle, you may have heard at the beginning, they may be in the playoffs as of this moment. You gotta hold on for dear life. So we're gonna
Gurushabd:break Hopefully. Oh.
Pamitha:Yep. We're gonna we're gonna break all of those down. We're gonna give our thoughts. We're gonna go over standings right now. So, yeah, we'll start at the top of the weekend.
Pamitha:Boston took out racing two to one. Utah dropped a tough game to Kansas City two nothing. Kansas City, stating the case that the playoff... NWSL playoffs are not the NWSL playoffs without them. Houston and Orlando finished two to one in favor of Orlando.
Pamitha:Bay and Portland tied two to two. And then let's dive into the games that we care about. Oh, I guess we should also talk about Angel City and Denver. I'm gonna write that down too. So let's start with the games that we care about.
Pamitha:Hey, Seattle, congratulations. Guru Shabad, y'all are dancing at the moment.
Gurushabd:Thank you. I was hoping we would beat Chicago, or that would look pretty bad this season.
Pamitha:That would raise other questions.
Gurushabd:But we looked really good.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Yes. Sadly, Maddie Darlene tore her ACL in the U23 break. So that's gonna be a big loss Yeah. For
Alli:I hate that.
Gurushabd:So... But our team was looking good, and two games left. Hopefully, can pull it out. Utah's a tough team, though.
Pamitha:Yeah, Utah is a tough So who do you have left in the next two matches? You're We have
Gurushabd:Utah be and then Orlando at home, which I'm gonna go to that game.
Pamitha:All right, excellent. Nice.
Gurushabd:Yeah. With the soccer team. We're all gonna head down there.
Alli:Oh, that's so fun.
Pamitha:With Orlando already being eliminated, hopefully, they don't play spoiler for you guys.
Gurushabd:Hopefully. I mean, no team's gonna take it easy. They're still gonna wanna win a game, so.
Pamitha:Oh, For sure.
Alli:In some ways, I think it motivates you even more. Like, we're done, but let's ruin this team's day. I've definitely felt that But
Gurushabd:we'll we'll be at home last game, and it'll probably be a do or die playoff game. So hopefully, we can pull out that win.
Pamitha:Yeah. I think there are there are a couple of matches that are trending in that direction as teams are vying for the final position and for standing going into the playoffs. But good job, Seattle. Congratulations. So three one.
Pamitha:Right? You know, I think that's a fairly statement win. Anything else stand out to you from the game?
Gurushabd:I mean, as always, Fishlock. Her passes and vision were amazing. Actually, a whole team's passes. We had quite a few little quick back heels, tricky passes also, pretty exciting to watch. Mhmm.
Gurushabd:And then, yeah, Chicago, they scored right at the end there. Yeah. So, yeah. Good Three one solid game.
Pamitha:Yeah. Three one could have been three nothing. I think Seattle, you know, scored early... Scored at the... Near the end of the first half, and then it feels like they were they were doing everything they could to continue to dominate possession and pulled out two goals.
Pamitha:Mercado scored two, Right? Mondesiere scored the other in the eightieth Yeah. Yeah.
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Pamitha:Good for you.
Gurushabd:Oh, actually, our third goal was a face goal. So Britt Ratcliffe had a cross, and it went right off her nose, like, off her face, which has some dedication.
Alli:I was gonna say, it it really looked like in real time, like, she got her head on it well, and then her reaction, you were like, oh, no. She definitely face balled that, and that's that hurts. But I thought that was a great play from Ratcliffe. And again, she's one of those players that I really want to have more playing time, and I love it when she comes in and takes full advantage of her minutes and gets goals and assists and just happy to see Yeah. Happy to see them and wanna see more of her.
Gurushabd:I am confused why Britney Ratcliffe doesn't have more time on our team.
Alli:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Why she comes in so late. So maybe if I ever run into Laura Harvey, I'll ask her.
Alli:Oh, yes. I will also say for Chicago, Simone Charlie got their role, so that was her first as a Chicago star.
Pamitha:Nice.
Alli:So I think that's always always rooting to see some changes for Chicago to be competitive, so...
Gurushabd:Yeah. Yep.
Pamitha:Well, San Diego, they pulled out a two one victory over North Carolina. Ugh. Sorry. In North Carolina, the Ashley Sanchez watch continues with two games left. Hopefully, she finds finds her form to bring the courage.
Pamitha:Well, I don't know. I guess I don't... I shouldn't be rooting against Gooter Chabad. So, well, we just hope that Ashley Sanjeev gets the record. I don't know if they can leapfrog
Gurushabd:the game.
Pamitha:Yeah. I don't know if it's score. Yeah. I don't know if it's an either or for North Carolina and Seattle at this point, so I'm just gonna be neutral. But, San Diego went up two nothing in that game and was a late goal.
Pamitha:Another first, I don't know if I'm gonna say her name right. Gilda Borisa? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Gurushabd:I'm not sure.
Alli:I do
Pamitha:not know. Well, that's a first NWSL goal for Boris. And that brings us to a rowdy outy. Washington, one. Gotham, zero.
Pamitha:And don't get tired of saying that.
Gurushabd:No. Congratulations. Thank
Alli:you. It has been a hot second since we've beat Gotham and scored on Gotham, so it was a lot better than our last showing against them earlier this year.
Pamitha:Yeah. What'd you think of the match?
Alli:It was a great game. Had a lot of fun. I thought a lot of the spirit players stepped up and had outstanding games. Andy Sullivan, Gabby Carl. I loved seeing Laces Santos back.
Alli:I kind of buried the lead there. Spirit fans have been looking for that for a while. I thought, woo hoo. I thought Clara Lavonga made a huge difference, and really excited to see how...
Pamitha:Should take a hot second and really unpack Lavonga, right? Because you had said something great. Like, in the... Like, at the game, you said her presence on the field allows us to be competitive on balls that we weren't competitive before, and it also allows for passes to not be as crisp downfield, and still have some amount of confidence that she's gonna win that fifty fifty against the defender.
Alli:Yeah.
Pamitha:Did I did I say that correctly?
Alli:Yeah. Pretty much. I I basically said, yeah. That... I mean, it just...
Alli:It makes situations... It see the ball go and go, oh, that was kind of a bad pass that's going to the defense. Nothing for us there. And then she'd get there, and it would be, you know, threatening turnover, etcetera. So...
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah. She also brings a different flavor of physicality that... You know, we have a very physical team. She brings a different flavor of it in that it's not just strong on the ball, it's her her presence is so intimidating.
Pamitha:You could see it affected defenders as they were both trying to collapse on her, they were trying to get in between her and goal. It's only gonna get better for Luvanga, and I think it's only gonna get better for the spirit from there. Yeah. Super excited.
Gurushabd:I agree.
Alli:I'll just say I'm really impressed with how quickly she's adapted to the NWSL, because she was here for a couple games, and then we had the international break and then came back. And I think that she very quickly is, you know, making the right runs. And, yeah, that's only gonna get better, and that's really exciting to see just somebody jump in and immediately have that impact.
Pamitha:Yeah. And we're gonna we're gonna get into this a little bit, but I also feel like her presence on the field is going to open up space for Trinity Rodman to do Trinity Rodman things. There may be some folks out there who don't believe that Trinity Rodman plays hard, and or has poor body language. We'll get into those takes in a
Alli:second, Yes, we will.
Pamitha:Good to see...
Gurushabd:Once Livonga gets that first touchdown and and gets a little more comfortable with that team, she's gonna be a bigger threat than Charity is.
Pamitha:Yep. Absolutely. And Lucia Lucia DiGuliamo Yep. Even before she scored the game winning goal, which was her first goal in the NWSL, even before that she was making her presence felt. Like it it was her match the entire time.
Pamitha:It was great. It was great to see her do it, great to see the energy, it was all wonderful.
Alli:Yeah.
Pamitha:And then we also gotta talk about Angel City in Denver. Denver fighting for a playoff position, again, apologies, good reception, going up two nothing early, in the first twenty minutes going up two nothing, including a goal from Lindsay Heaps, right? The Colorado native, Lindsay Heaps, and then just in the span of nine minutes, giving up three goals is just heartbreaking. Brutal. Yeah.
Pamitha:And and look, it says a lot about Angel City, there's no question, but oof, Denver has looked really good this season, and just to sort of see that slip away, the self inflicted wound, if you will, that's tough. They're... They are the only... They in North Carolina are still fighting to get in. Everyone else has been eliminated.
Pamitha:We'll get into the standings in a second. But any thoughts on Denver, or or any thoughts on Angel City before we go on?
Gurushabd:I wasn't able to watch the game, but what I did see was the Lindsey Heaps Savvy King little tussle.
Alli:Oh, I did not see that.
Gurushabd:Oh, yeah. So Savvy King was guarding Lindsey Heaps on a corner.
Pamitha:Bet, yeah.
Gurushabd:And, you know, kind of maybe holding her arm as you do, nothing out of the ordinary. Then Lindsey Heaps just... I mean, not even that No, no,
Pamitha:it wasn't.
Gurushabd:It was like nothing. And then Lindsay Heaps just shoves Savvy King. Yeah. Like, kind of out of nowhere. Yeah.
Gurushabd:And then shoves... And then the ref comes in between them, and Heaps shoves Savvy again while the ref was in between them.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:And some words were exchanged.
Pamitha:Lip readers will really appreciate it. Nice. Go lip Yeah.
Gurushabd:And I thought it was a little crazy. Yeah. I was like...
Pamitha:So, Gurus Chabad, like, when you said, like, the refs... The ref, like, ran him... The ref sprinted from, like, off camera in between the two of them, and, like, it was... Like, and it was really funny because it didn't look like any of the other players were seeing this happen, because it was it was in the back post. Mhmm.
Pamitha:And... Yeah. Like, it's wild. Go watch go watch the clip if you watch the clip. Yeah.
Pamitha:I know. Proud Also props to Savvy King. I just gotta say, I don't know who was in the right or who was in the wrong, but getting getting shoved by Lindsey Heaps and and looking like it was nothing. You know what I mean? If Lindsey Yeah.
Pamitha:If Lindsey Heaps shoved me, I would go flying 60 feet backwards.
Gurushabd:I mean, Savvy was like, dude, I've died on the field before he came back. Like... Like, you can't shake me.
Pamitha:That's so good.
Gurushabd:I know. I'm a big savvy fan, and... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, stuff happens in soccer.
Gurushabd:You know, you get competitive, you're playing for that playoff spot, but, yeah. Heaps was definitely the aggressor in that one.
Alli:Will say, as a a defender, when I know I've gotten into my marks head, I'm happy, so props to Savi for that as well.
Pamitha:Well, let's quickly recap the standings. So again, if you're a fan of Orlando, Boston, Houston, Bay, racing, and Chicago, Sorry, better luck next season, the next two games, you know, show what you're worth, but unfortunately the playoffs for this year are not in your future. North Carolina and Denver sit at nine and ten respectively, They are, fighting to get into the bottom two. But as always, Gotham FC... Well, know, I shouldn't say as always.
Pamitha:Mm-mm. But, as they have been for, the recent past, Gotham is still at number one, San Diego number two, Washington at three, Kansas City four, Angel City five, the Royals dropping two spots to number six, Portland at seven, and Seattle, as we've mentioned, into the playoffs at number eight. But it is anybody's game for the Shield. I'd say
Alli:maybe not anybody's game, but Gotham hasn't locked it up yet. They could they could have with the win this weekend, and they didn't, so it still remains...
Gurushabd:I mean, the Wave could take it.
Pamitha:The Spirit could take it.
Gurushabd:That's true. But, I mean, the Wave, they play Boston and then Bay. Like, if they win both and other teams draw or lose a game, it's tight.
Pamitha:They're only one point back of Gotham, and the Spirit are only three points back of Gotham. So there's a there's a three point spread between one and three. It's gonna be great. Gonna be great for final two weeks of the season.
Alli:Yeah, yes. Yeah. I know what I'm doing these next two weekends. We
Pamitha:pride ourselves on having sort of informed takes. We've got our very average review. Ali, you bring your science background and your playing background. Gurus Chabad, you bring your playing background and, like, general, like, savvy vibes. I try really hard just not to get in the way, but we also recognize that we are not journalists.
Pamitha:We recognize that we don't have access. This is us having a good time sitting around the table talking the NWSL and women's soccer with friends. That's what we are doing. But even then, we don't try to just throw stuff out into the ether to just differentiate ourselves and create controversy. If something is worth talking about, we'll talk about it.
Pamitha:If something's not worth talking about, we're not gonna try to make it something. Doesn't seem like everybody has gotten that, perspective, out there in the media landscape around women's sports. We have talked about that many, times, about the quality of NWSL women's soccer coverage. It was a particularly low weekend for women's sports, women's soccer media in our estimation. I have some really strong words, but Ali,, tell us what's been going on.
Alli:Yeah. So I feel like there has been a lot of discourse following The US Spain two games about individual players and drawing conclusions that don't match what was seen. And while I think that that is not uncommon on the great apps like Reddit and Blue Sky and things like that, I think it's really damaging to individuals and the game and the fan base when it comes from people who know better, but present a view that feels more like a hot take that isn't actually based in fact. And so I can give the background. Or, Grusha, bud, you wanna jump in with the clip that got us angry?
Gurushabd:Yeah. So, basically, we're listening to the podcast with McCall Zerboni, and she was trying to give a hot take maybe about Trinity Rodman, pretty much saying that maybe these last two games, she was just not playing very well, not putting in any effort, kind of just being a diva on the field because she already knows she has a starting spot and that she has nothing to prove, which it just seems wrong.
Alli:Yeah. Yep. Totally agree. I could barely let you finish the sentence before I was like, jump in.
Gurushabd:I feel like Darion and O'Hara were trying to step around that.
Pamitha:I disagree. I disagree. I think Darion Jenkins should know better. Like, shame on shame on Darian Jenkins for teeing it up the way that she she teed it up. I thought Kelly was trying very artfully to step around it.
Pamitha:But like, Darian... And this... Well... Let's be clear. I just wanna be clear.
Pamitha:We're talking about the CBS Attacking Third podcast.
Alli:Yeah.
Pamitha:This isn't some, you know, no offense to us, this isn't just like three friends getting together talking about soccer.
Gurushabd:Yeah. It's not fans. It's people are supposed to be an authority on this.
Alli:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And so I will say just a little bit more background. So there are...
Alli:So Darian Jenkins... I was okay with the way that she presented it with basically Oh, saying
Pamitha:mine's not.
Alli:Okay. So she basically said, like, stock up, stock down. I think Trinity's stock went down. And then in the conversation with Kelly, one of the things that she said was, you know, we're so used to Trinity being amazing that the bar is really high, and so if she falls a little short of that, we're like, oh, she's not playing well. And...
Alli:But I think what I would have liked to see was some acknowledgment that we have seen from analysts and props to Leslie Ryder who posted a really good follow-up to this conversation being like, put the brakes on people. But she talked with analysts who were like, yeah, Trinity was playing in a different position in a diff... Being asked to play in a different way than she plays for the spirit and for the national team. So, yeah, we didn't see what we normally see from her, but she was in a hybrid role that isn't what she's been asked to do before. And so it would be nice to hear people who can see more of that than those of us who aren't professional athletes to acknowledge that in their hot take.
Pamitha:I just realized we could play the clip.
Darain Jenkins:I think another player I'm thinking of in the same vein that didn't make enough of a case for themselves to solidify to be a starter. She's gonna get called in again. I'm talking Trinity Rodman. I'm not worried that she's going to make the roster, but this camp to me showed that she... Watching her felt like she was mentally fatigued.
Darain Jenkins:Because to me, she's one of those players that I always assume, Kelly, sort of in the way that I always knew that you were a gamer. Same with you, McCall. You were gonna go in even if things were not going your way. You were gonna ball out. You were gonna problem solve.
Darain Jenkins:You were gonna work your hardest. Emily Fox was running up up and down past Trinity Robbins multiple times in the second half. And to me, that's one of those opportunities where you can control your work rate. You can control how you're showing up on defense at least. If it's not working out in the attack, especially as a winger, hell, if I'm not getting the ball where I can slice and dice and I can do what what I'm good at, I'm gonna work my ass off defensively, and I'm gonna show up.
Darain Jenkins:I just... I didn't see that from Rodman in this camp, and I think because it was frustrating not getting on the ball and not being in those opportunities. But, again, that's where I almost feel like that's the next evolution of her game is what do you do when it's not working for you?
Pamitha:Yeah. So I I can't disagree more with the way she framed that question. And I'm not gonna sit here and say to, like, Darion that, like, she, like, screwed up, but the... But framing the the question the way she framed it, I think, was really poor.
Alli:So what really bothered me a lot was when McCall jumped in, and she started talking about Trinity's body language, and she said that, you know, maybe that Trinity, as Grusha had said, Trinity thinks she has a starting spot, so she's not trying, and that's disrespectful to the badge. Her body language showed she was unfocused, lazy, disinterested. And I just think that is such a problem in the way that she's talking about her with racial overtones, undertones, racial undertones, that is... We're gonna get into that really problematic. Also, bigger thoughts about how we talk about players and what we can actually tell from the glimpses that we see of them on the field.
Gurushabd:Yeah. I think it's I think it's irresponsible for us to just jump on individual players after this practice camp. Everyone wants to try and just point fingers when we're a team. And so calling out one player and saying, oh, she didn't try because she thinks she has her starting spot locked in, is not productive, and I hope players aren't listening to this. Like, I hope the players are staying off the Internet right now because this seems like something more...
Gurushabd:Again, I think a fan might just say randomly online. But for someone who presents themselves as a journalist shouldn't be calling out an individual player like that, I think when it's not earned. Like, Trinity Rodman always works really hard. That's all I see her work in a game. And I think when you're getting paid and it's your job to talk about this, maybe you should just have some more ethics than just trying to give, like, a hot take or, like, clickbait culture.
Pamitha:Yeah. Totally agree.
Gurushabd:Which she's getting, like now people are talking about it.
Pamitha:Yeah. I totally agree. And it's... I felt this way about some of the the athletic coverage, like we've talked about this before, like it's... Like these are such superficial superficial is even giving it too much credit.
Pamitha:Right? These types of perspectives and opinions have... Add nothing to the narrative. Right? They're not even superficial.
Pamitha:They they are, I think Ali, they're harmful. That's what... You you say that they're harmful. I agree with you. Like, it's just...
Pamitha:It detracts from the dialogue for... Of women's soccer. It detracts from having an informed fan base who... Because again, like we're talking about it. Right?
Pamitha:So like, we can't have the conversations that we want to have about issues that actually matter because we have to deal with quote unquote journalists quote unquote who are out there framing conversations poorly, and then analysts who Goud or Shabbat, to your point, there's a total lack of journalistic integrity. And you you could see in Kelly O'Hara's face that she's very quickly trying to like jump in, address the fact that Trinity is fine, she's not concerned about it, but then talk about, like, the, like, the the larger question of, like, roster spots that are secure versus not secure. And then Zerboni comes in and just completely dunder heads it up. Right? Like, it's I'm not...
Pamitha:It's... It is really difficult as a person of color to watch analysts who are not aware, at best unaware, at worst, irresponsible in their use of language and use of analysis that have roots in very, like, unfortunate racial stereotypes. And that that is what we hear, unfortunately, around a lot of the prominent NWSL superstars. Like, this is not the first time we've had this conversation where there's an announcer who says something about somebody's hair, right, or questioning someone's work ethic, or questioning someone's priorities. Where is this conversation about, like, other players who may not look like Trinity Rodman?
Pamitha:Right? Where is this conversation about, like, I'm not even gonna name other players, like, you know that this is not something that is handled uniformly.
Gurushabd:Yeah. And about the hair, that's that's on McCall Zerboni again.
Pamitha:Oh, gosh. He was
Gurushabd:commenting on a Gotham game, Dudley got her hair pulled. And Yeah. McCall Zerboni was like, Well, she should just tie her hair up. That's That on was her problem that her hair got pulled about Jordan Dudley. Yeah.
Gurushabd:I was like, No. Yeah. That's...
Alli:Is there... And and that's not the first time that she has made comments like that. There was... Back when she was playing for Gotham a couple of years ago, she made a comment in a postgame press conference that was racially insensitive, and when called out on it in a very polite way, she doubled down and said that it wasn't a problem, and then later released sort of an apology, but by then it was clear, like, she was being forced into it by by the team. So just having that background of somebody who makes problematic statements and then doubles down on them, I'm just so unimpressed with continuing to have her as a voice in this game.
Alli:Is...
Pamitha:League should do better, the league should do better, the network should do better. We as fans should demand better. That's the thing that really bothers me here is that you know the way this is going to happen, right? You know the arguments and the back and forth that's gonna be happening on these Reddit posts, Reddit like forums, they mean nothing.
Alli:Mhmm. Yeah.
Pamitha:Right? They're just fans yelling at fans.
Alli:Yep.
Pamitha:We need to be yelling at CBS. We need to be yelling at ESPN. We need to be yelling at the NWSL. We need to be demanding a better quality product. We need to be demanding more for the players because we, as fans, care about the success of the players.
Pamitha:Right. They have their voice in the players union, they have their voice on the teams, we have our voice from the stands, we have our voice from our couches. We need to be a better, more informed fan base so we can make a better product for everybody involved. Yep. Shame on these media outlets that are basically looking at women's soccer as a nice to have.
Pamitha:Right? This is... It's... It is unbelievably frustrating. You see you see announcers in other sports terminated for far less than repeated, repeated, hurtful comments.
Alli:Yeah. Yep. Totally totally agree. I I could not agree more and just think that they need to need to fix this. And, you know, adding to just continuing to load on on top of this, I think that just the idea that you can look at a player's, quote, body language and say this is what they're thinking, I think is kind of ridiculous.
Alli:I mean, I I think about it when I played, and I certainly had teammates I'd get annoyed with when they'd like throw their arms up if the ball didn't go right to them, and things like that. And like, yes, I get frustrated and understand that, but I also think about, I know one of the games where I'm a thousand percent certain I had terrible body language was when I was... Where our defense was playing as a defender. We're playing a new style, and we were absolutely sucking. And I know that I was showing frustration, and it was because I couldn't get it.
Alli:I couldn't figure out what we were doing, we weren't getting it, and that frustration's coming out. So if anybody had said about me, you know, oh, she doesn't care, she thinks she has a starting spot, she's lazy, she's disrespectful, all of that, you know, that is the furthest thing from the actual truth. So that's watering it way down and taking out the racism of it, and I don't want to diminish that, but just from the basics of like, can we really look at somebody's body language and say how they're feeling? I think that's stupid.
Pamitha:Can I build off that? Yeah. So it's it's... Yes, a 100% it's stupid, and also, Trendy Rodman is a leader on that team. Who cares if her body language is indicating that she's disappointed?
Pamitha:Maybe that is what is needed for her teammates to get wake up. Right? Like, we see all sorts of different... We see different types of leadership from athletes across the board. Right?
Pamitha:We see some athletes that are quiet and reserved and they have hard conversations behind the scenes. We have other athletes that get in the faces of their teammates to try to motivate them to step up. Where's the criticism for either of those types of athletes? Right? What if, like, you know, we see Trinity Robbin up close at spirit games.
Pamitha:She is demonstrative. You know who loves that? The fans. You know why? It jazzes the fans up to get on the officials, to get on the opposing players for diving and making terrible calls.
Pamitha:It gives her teammates energy. So this perspective that, oh, she's like, got... She's really frustrated and she's making... She's bringing... You know, she's showing that she's frustrated and that's not a problem and that's a...
Pamitha:That is a a a embarrassment to the shield. Where where was this when Lindsey Heaps was showing how frustrated she was during the World Cup? Where was she... Where where were these comments there? Where were these comments when Rose Lavelle was getting frustrated that she wasn't getting passes at her feet?
Pamitha:Where where was that? Why are they allowed to show frustration?
Alli:And I would take that a step further and say Heap's frustration was celebrated when it Absolutely. Went to a
Pamitha:Absolutely. If Trinity scored, do you think we'd be still having this conversation? Unfortunately, I think yes. Yeah. And what does that actually say?
Pamitha:Yep. I think there are people out there who are upset that the faces of the women's... Of the national team now are Trinity Rodman, Sofia Wilson, and Mallory Swanson, and Jaden Shaw. Right? What do they have in common?
Pamitha:They are outstanding soccer players. That's the only thing they have in common as far as I'm concerned, but unfortunately, see differently.
Alli:Yeah. It's really disappointing.
Pamitha:It's not just disappointing. It's it's infuriating. Mhmm.
Alli:Because it... Wow, we quoted Marta and Mulan in this Yes.
Pamitha:Two bad ass warrior princesses. Yep. And we... Like, this is what I've been saying, and I apologize. I...
Pamitha:I'm so mad about this. This is what I've been saying about women's soccer. Women's soccer has an opportunity to do better than its male counterparts. It is an opportunity to create a fan culture, an ownership culture, a locker room culture, a broadcast culture that is unique and different. It does not have to fall into the same tropes of other sports.
Pamitha:And and instead, we are, like, we're just watching it happen. We love our listeners, and thank you for listening, and, you know, we appreciate that everybody is liking and sharing and that are commenting who are commenting. Thank you for that. That's amazing. But we're not we're not delusional.
Pamitha:We know that we don't reach millions of people every week. We're not only murders in the building. But like like, these major networks have a responsibility and a duty to those... To to all of us who listen, and they're falling short. I...
Pamitha:Ugh. Yeah. So... Go.
Gurushabd:I mean, I I think we've gotten beyond the point where we just don't need McCall Zurboni to be commenting anymore. She doesn't need to be doing games. She doesn't need to be doing post games.
Pamitha:Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more.
Gurushabd:I, like, I think we've had enough instances of her saying these things against Black people, indigenous people, that we don't need to give her a voice anymore.
Pamitha:Can can we create an an artificial intelligence bot that allows us to selectively mute people on broadcasts? Like, why is that not... How is that not a function? Right? Like, there's there's closed captioning, there's, like, alternative language broadcasts.
Pamitha:We should be allowed to, like, mute people like McCall Zorboni, so that we don't have to be polluted by her toxic perspectives.
Alli:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Yeah. I mean, we have enough choices now. There's, you know, enough commentators in the game now. We don't need her. If she's been called out enough and given enough passes...
Alli:Yeah. Well, I don't think I could say it better than Marta said it. Sometimes when you're average athlete and you end your career, you often do much better commenting on games, etcetera. But in some cases, that doesn't happen. And that was a response to
Pamitha:That's right. To Boni.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Because Zerboni said that the Orlando Pride, they only have one star that they're leaning on being Marta. Or is it on Banda? I'm not sure. Yeah.
Gurushabd:Because clearly, they don't have more than one star player and more than one talent. And so Marta was like, do not disrespect my team. The Orlando Pride is a team. We're not just one player. And this, yeah.
Gurushabd:If you upset Marta, you're not on good terms with a lot of people.
Alli:So I wanted to raise one other topic around this, which is that we've experienced this with celebrity women and actresses like the Anne Hathaway or Jennifer Lawrence effect, where everyone's like, oh my gosh, we love this person. They're so good. And then for no reason, then the public tears them down. And I say no reason other than the ones that we don't wanna talk about of in this case, like sexism. And I worry a little bit, I wonder if that's starting to happen to Trinity, because she's been all over the place, right?
Alli:Ads during the World Cup, all of her publicity around Ben Shelton, and I think people think that they can say more than they should based off of them seeing her, and then add in the sexism, the racism. Like, I hope we're... I hope that it's not the start of trying to tear her down.
Gurushabd:Yeah, that's a good point.
Pamitha:I mean, it's a
Gurushabd:great It's a great point.
Pamitha:I hope you were right. Unfortunately, I I think that people are...
Alli:It's on that trajectory.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah. Good news for those of us who support Trinity is she has a support network around her that she's not gonna let any of that. I think the... I think there's a great quote from Mulan.
Pamitha:No matter how the wind howls, the mountain will not bow to it.
Alli:Oh, nice.
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Alli:Wow. We quoted Marta and Mulan in this And we're last guess.
Pamitha:Two bad ass warrior princesses.
Gurushabd:Yep. Yeah. I mean, yeah, Trinity is amazing. She's a bright light. If you see her with the fans, if you see her do anything, she's happy, she's spreading happiness.
Gurushabd:Like, we just need to build her up, build all The US women players up, and not start nitpicking them over a practice friendly. Like... And people keep saying a bad camp. All we saw were the two games. Yeah.
Gurushabd:We didn't see their week at camp training, the tactics that they're learning, the new changes they're making, we're missing some players, like...
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:Yeah. There was an over overreaction to these two games.
Pamitha:You know, Gurus Chabad, when we started talking about doing this podcast, one of the things that we talked about is that we wanted to be known for, like, building people up and not just tearing people down. And I think I try to walk that line in going... In going after institutions and not individuals. But Calzar Boni is making that very difficult for me
Gurushabd:Yeah. Right
Pamitha:Right?
Gurushabd:We can go after... Yeah. I mean, she's said enough things
Pamitha:Don't that are so don't mistake me. I'm not suggesting that we back off, but what I'm saying is I think that there there is a desperate need for more of that joy that you're talking about, right? The the more of like building people up and supporting people, and spreading those good vibes, if you will, that Trinity does effortlessly. And as you're saying that, I was thinking to myself, you know, as much as I'm really, like, annoyed and frustrated at, like, the systems and the powers that be that promote this type of, like, hot take culture, I really feel bad for McCall's or Bony. Like, to be the kind of person that needs to tear somebody down in order to be taken seriously, I'm like, I'm sorry that you weren't good enough to be known for your talent on the field.
Pamitha:I'm sorry that you are not interesting enough to be known for thoughtful analysis. I'm sorry that you need to resort to these types of dog whistles to be taken seriously. I'm sorry that you are living a life where you feel such a lack of relevance because nobody should feel that way. I hope that McCall Zurboni is surrounded by people who do actually care about her, and maybe they tell her, hey, listen, you don't need to be this type of person.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Well said.
Pamitha:Well, it's hard to pivot away from such a horrible, horrible perspective into anything good, but we're gonna try. So, week 26. You guys are you guys looking forward to anything in particular for this next week of matches? I know that Washington's got a big away game in Kansas City.
Alli:I mean, we broke a losing streak at Portland.
Pamitha:Yes.
Alli:I think it's time to break a winning streak at Kansas City.
Pamitha:Yes.
Alli:By that, to clarify, Kansas City's winning streak at home.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, Gurus Chabad, you had mentioned San Diego's taking on Boston. It is a little bit of an easier hurdle than Gotham playing Orlando, so we might have a new number one when we reconvene around the microphones next week.
Alli:I'm sorry? What? Oh, right. Yeah, okay. Sorry.
Alli:In my brain, we were ahead of San Diego, and so I thought you
Darain Jenkins:were gonna
Alli:say that they could, but I I understand.
Pamitha:I hear
Alli:you. Yes. Yes, we could.
Pamitha:We
Gurushabd:still Mhmm, have
Pamitha:go ahead.
Gurushabd:May... Oh, sorry. Maybe we'll see North Carolina Courage show up against the Thorns and see Sanchez make history.
Alli:Yes. And that's what we're
Gurushabd:all waiting for. Two more games.
Alli:Yeah. I will say we did forget Thorn? Come here. Mhmm. Go ahead.
Alli:No. Go ahead.
Gurushabd:Oh, I was just gonna say, the Thorne's also have this game without Sofia Wilson due to her red card.
Alli:Was about to say the same thing. Did
Gurushabd:Okay.
Alli:They did, at least not lose this weekend without her, but, yeah, one more one more match.
Pamitha:Yeah. I'd forgotten about that. Yep. Oh my gosh. So then they...
Pamitha:She... They get they get her back for the last decision day. Right? Is that...
Gurushabd:Yes. Yeah. She'll be back for Decision Day.
Pamitha:So... Oh, so we have three games left. I apologize. I thought we had two games left.
Gurushabd:No. There's two games
Pamitha:left. Really?
Gurushabd:Yeah. Have Killing City again,
Alli:and then
Gurushabd:November 1.
Pamitha:Alright. That's right, November 1. There we go. There we go. Now now I've clicked on, I see it.
Alli:Alright. Time has no meaning anymore, so That is correct. That's fine.
Pamitha:Awesome. Well, guys, thank you for doing this again. Thank you everybody for listening. Gurus Shabbat, where can folks find us on socials?
Gurushabd:You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, and blue sky at Laces Out Loud.
Pamitha:And as always, you can reach us at the email lacesoutloudpod@gmail.com. That's lacesoutloudpod@gmail.com. Alright, Gurus. You're about to take us out.
Gurushabd:Everyone, take it easy and remember to be kind to each other. That's what we learned today, and as always. And Sanchez, go get more goals. And from the fans for the game, we'll see you next time on Laces Out Loud.