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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the weekly podcast where we take the teaching at Christ Community Chapel and bring it into your week. Each week, I sit down with my friends and ministry leaders at CCC, and we laugh usually a little bit. We reflect, and we try to figure out how to live out what we are learning each week. If you didn't hear the sermon, not a big deal. Go down to the description and find a link to it there, and then come back over and join this conversation. So this week, joining us, we have Brooks Montgomery. We've got Sara Koons and Jamie Hewitt. I'm Stacey DiNardo. So glad that you guys could be here today. I'm gonna kick it over to Jamie. Woah. I know. Woah. I'm nervous now too to start us off with whatever he has for us today. Yeah. Stacey Stacey gave me full reigns, and everybody else is rightfully a parade. I may have a reputation of being a a bit of a troublemaker. But I was I was listening to the sermon, and I was trying to think of a connecting question that would also help people get to know. And the one that came to my mind in the perspective of Jesus being enough, which is, I'm sure, something that we might be talking about is all of us are happily married. Yeah. And know all of your spouses. Mhmm. I feel like I have to say I agree no. Yes. Yes. When was the moment where you knew that Oh. Who you're married to Was gonna be the person you're married. Is the person that you wanted to marry? Oh, that's that is question. I like it. That's not too scary at all. It's softer. It's softer than Because it's also do you think were you the first person or was did you know before your spouse or did they This isn't your question, Steve. Sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. Jamie, I'll great question. I remember pretty distinctly. So Lydia and I dated long distance. We were six, seven hours away, and I remember the first time we kind of said goodbye. We'd been dating for a few months. She was at I dropped her off at the airport. I was a mess, and emotionally, there kinda was a moment where it's like, this is not worth it unless I think and know that, man, I I wanna spend the rest of my life with this person. Because saying goodbye, the kind of the, you know, being hours without stinks. Like, that's not fun to sign up for. You kinda lose out on the, fun parts of dating when you're long distance. So I think even that first airport drop off, I was like, man, as horrible as this is, this is worth it, because Lydia is, the person I wanna spend my life with. So funny enough, when I was, I was crying in that moment, a homeless man at the Chicago Airport started making fun of me and said, hey crybaby. Hey crybaby. So that's, I always remember that moment, but also getting You were gonna marry Lydia? Make fun of for being bullied. By a local Chicago phone. Wow. So Yeah. Okay. They can be they can be aggressive. Pivotal Moai and Lows now. All in once. It's long train ride back. So Oh, that's good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. For me, it was, well, I need I feel like I need to give a little bit of context. So Matt and I had known each other since seventh grade. So we went to school together throughout middle school and high school, but we started dating right before we both went to college, and we also did the long distance thing for two years. But it really was. It was a couple months after. I think it's the same thing. You're kinda like, okay. Is this worth all the time and energy and heartache? And, yeah, I was I was pretty pathetic when it came to missing him and all those things. But I remember telling my parents, hey. I think, you know, Matt's gonna be the one. And the the fact that they didn't react at all, I was like, oh. And then my dad's like, yeah. If you don't marry him, I will. Okay. That sounds like your dad. I feel feel good about that. I feel weirdly affirmed in that. Wow. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. I can jump in. My Jean and I started dating. I think it was actually Halloween night is what I yeah. Oddly enough, it just happened to be that. We weren't Did you go trick or treating? No. We weren't trick or or treating. It just happened to me. Were you in costume? But I will tell you I mean, before Christmas, so I think in November sometime, I remember even telling my mom and say I was like, I think we're gonna get married like he's the one. And, yeah, nothing real dramatic. I don't have as great of a story as you guys do because of the long distance thing. But Oh, yeah. We're just spending a lot of time together, and I was like, this is different than anything else that I've experienced when I was dating. So Yeah. Your proposal story was top notch. So I'm very anxious to hear when when you knew. Yeah. So I remember being on a walk with Caroline. We started dating in August, and I remember we were on a walk in October, I think. And on that walk, I I think I was going through some hard stuff with family and shared that with her and was talking to her, and we just stopped in the middle of the hype walk. And she she just gave me a hug. And I don't actually I don't know if I've shared this here, but I I would say in my life, and even up to that point, I was like I felt like I was had always been the person hugging others in a sense and and helping them. And I think that I'm just innately resistant to allowing myself to actually be cared for and be and I remember just in that moment, I, like, kinda just sank into it and, like, let myself be hugged. And I in that moment, I was like, oh, this I feel comfortable and safe with her in a way that I didn't know. That's true. I never I never felt that with anybody else, and so I was like, alright. This This this girl is the This is it. She's the one. I need to put a ring on this. So Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's very sweet. Yeah. Well, thank you for taking the time to draw us out a little bit. Share that. Yes. Great to hear that. A little bit more sentimental than you may. It was more sentimental than I thought you like a way back I'm, I'm like an onion. Food or I've got layers. I'm still scarred by Jimmy asking what was the last song you listened to. Every time I leave now, I change the song to, like, a woman in the car. I changed that. What was that? Just think Week week three. Week three. I just go back to a sermon all the time. K. Let's jump in to recap kind of what the teaching was. This is week eight of promises made, promises kept. Can't believe that, by the way. And we're in, Genesis 21, and this is really the first time we are seeing the promise kept. The promise that was made was that a son was gonna be born to Abraham. He was gonna have a descendant, and Isaac is born in Genesis 21. And this promise, again, we see fulfilled. And really, what pastor Zach taught this weekend, his three points were that trust is tangible, and trust is transformational, and trust is possible. That's all I'm gonna give you today. So let's jump in and start with, any takeaways or things that stood out to get things started. The the concept of Isaac being born as this moment of fulfillment and the language around that that Zach gave of it being enough while not answering every question, I think is is really significant for people to Yeah. Just reflect on and wrestle with because the reality is, I think, all of us, at least I can speak for myself, we really want all the questions answered. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so what does it look like to live in this place where we have enough, where the the biggest question is really clear even if we don't have All of the all of the answers. Yeah. That's just so I mean, related to that, I oftentimes, I think I can confuse that Christian maturity is having answers to questions. Mhmm. And that's not a bad thing. Like, being thoughtful in our faith, being rational about, hey, what does it mean to believe and trust the Bible? But fundamentally, maturity in Christ is built on one thing, and it's your depth of trust, not your ability to have answers to every question. Yeah. And even just reframing and reminding ourselves of that truth. Yeah. There's there's people that know a lot of answers to questions, and they have zero depth of trust in Christ. Right? And so being found, being maturing in our faith, developing virtue in our life as Christians, it's not based on answers, not based on intelligence, IQ. It's based on our daily commitment to trusting in Christ. And then Gek goes back earlier in the sermon series, I think it was Pastor Joe, and he talked about the connection between doubt and faith. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's not having all the answers. Like, those two are connected. That actually yeah. I I actually was reminded of that too. We talked about this a little bit before recording, but when, pastor Zach talked about that trust is tangible Mhmm. I was like, I've never I don't know if I've ever equated those two things or thought of those two things or thought about trust in that way. And I and I and I really appreciated that he said trust isn't something that is blind or arbitrary. Like, he kept using, obviously, the significance of the birth of Isaac being kind of, like, the tangible thing. But we do have a tangible thing in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. But also just how he said, hey. We see this pattern throughout scripture, and it gave numerous examples. So I just I thought that was an interesting way, but also an, accurate way to define what trust really is. Yeah. I like that a lot too. Yeah. Well, we're gonna watch a clip to, and then unpack this takeaway that I had. Friends, do you see that the secret of biblical faith is this, not that God answers every question in your past or in your future. Not that life is a tidy little story that will all make sense. The secret of biblical faith is that if God gives us tangible evidence that he can be trusted, we can reframe our past and our future. We can take a look at the story we've lived and say whatever is happening, it isn't that God has forgotten. It isn't that God has abandoned. It isn't that God doesn't love whatever fear or anxiety I have for the future, it isn't that God won't go with me. How do I know? Because I have Isaac. Questions are different when you're holding the hand of the tangible expression of God's trustworthiness. That's what it means for trust to transform us. So like Jamie, this really hit me too as far as just realizing I liked how we put, like, we can reframe everything in our life and orient it around the fact that Jesus is. Right? So I think, yeah, not all the questions are answered, and we're gonna talk about that more. But you saw a movement within Sarah. You saw a movement within Abraham, and I think I can point to movements within myself because of the trustworthiness of Jesus and me being able to grab hold of that. So I also think it doesn't and he articulated this well. But when we don't get maybe the healing that we desire, you know, or the cure to the diagnosis, or the answer he wants, it's it does not negate God's trustworthiness. And so I think in the the fact that we oftentimes don't get the answers doesn't change who God is or what he's done. And I just think that we need to because we forget that Yeah. Quite a lot when we're in the midst of the really hard thing. Yeah. That's, I mean, again, it's just the importance of having conviction about the right promises. Yes. Right? Because if you have you know, this is true of any relationship. You have you think someone's gonna do something or have wrong expectations that were never promised to you, you're gonna be disappointed. Right? And the reality is is that when perhaps we aren't holding what we think God will give us, whatever it is, health, stability, all these things, the reality is that's not a reflection on God. Perhaps it's a reflection that we are clinging to the wrong promise and expecting that today in our life comfort will happen when really, no, it's it's coming. It's coming. You're exactly right. So, Sarah, you touched on this a little bit, but I was wondering if we talked about the tangible nature of trust and Zach pointed out different points in scripture where we definitely see the burning bush, the valley of the bones. You see, Paul and Silas being broken out of prison. Right? And they could go back and go, look at this time. We have Jesus. Jesus is the ultimate tangible, you know, trust that we see in that and that we can hold on to. But do you have any times in your life that you can go back to and say, goodness, God showed me here. I can hold on to this. I I there are numerous things in my life that I can look back on and see whether that is how God had been faithful through something or, which obviously proves that we I can trust him, And some, I guess, more dramatic than others. And I think that's something to to realize that it's not always going to be this big No. Moment where we see it, but I think oftentimes it's in the everyday things that happen in our lives. But, I know for me, I oh, gosh. I it's like there's so many different things, but one particular moment, so our youngest daughter, Naomi, was really little. She was I think she was probably, like, two or something like that. And, we were downstairs doing things, and she was upstairs. And we had these windows that went all the way to the ground of our bedroom window on the Second Floor. And, we had the window open a little bit, but it was open just enough that she had pushed on the screen of the window and fell. Oh, wow. Two stories and missed the concrete step of our front step by inches. Oh, my goodness. And I remember our sons who were, like, seven at the time were, like, I hear Naomi crying outside. And we were we we said, what? But, like, I what? And we she's in the bushes. Outside in the front, she's not perfectly fine. Wow. And it was like it was just one of those moments where you're like, okay. Yeah. Like, God saved her in that. Yeah. I mean, it feels like angels were probably present in that moment. And it's and it's not to say that God wouldn't have been trustworthy if something else would have been out of the way. Different. Right? But I can look back on that and go You can look and say, God, look at your faithfulness and trustworthiness. Been doing that. Yeah. So Yeah. Yeah. That's just a poignant moment for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think even this is trust is normally born out of moments that are really hard. Yeah. Mhmm. And even it's I I feel that's why, I think the Bible talks so often about reminding yourself of God's faithfulness. Remember, tell others of the next because the reality is it's the next hard situation. No matter how simple of suffering it might be, I feel like I find myself just in a panic, forgetting all the times God has shown up in my life, forgetting all the times God has shown up and been faithful in other situations. There's just such a temptation to be forgetful. Yeah. That's man, even just hearing that story, hearing, you know, his faithfulness in Abraham and Sarah. Yeah. That's why it's so important, because I I don't remember often when when I'm starting to suffer. Yeah. Do you have difficulty you know, Zach talked about looking back or looking forward. So the fear and anxiety of looking forward and then the back looking back in the more shame or different things like that. Do you have more difficulty looking in one direction or another in, you know, in, considering God's trustworthiness? I I think, one thing that at least, I feel like I hear, oftentimes and even in my own life is it's just really comfortable to not think. Like, in some sense, you it's overwhelming for people to look forward into the future Yeah. And to think I have no clue what's gonna happen. That's unknown. I also if I do look forward and I don't wanna give up autonomy and control of my own life, so sometimes it's really comfortable to try to just put blinders on and kind of live in the moment, keep control of your own life. But I don't think any of us are maybe real anxious people though too because I do think that's something that plagues a lot of people is, like, in thinking about the future can be crippling at times. Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah. I'll just say, like, last night, I had a hour long conversation after the sermon with a young adult friend about the future. So I think I would be inclined to say, myself even and most of us, a lot of our anxiety tends to be like the one hour long of what. And I I wish that I could know Mhmm. What's gonna happen next. So I do think that there are there are people, and even the way Zach framed this is the past was like, how could God love me given what has happened to me? Yeah. And I do think I've had that conversation a lot Yeah. Times with people who, you know, are like, how could, you know, how could God be given this is how my life Right. Or even how can I trust God because of what he allowed to happen to you? Yeah. I think that's that's, like, at the heart of that. Mhmm. So. I I think too that I I think for many of us, I know for me, something that my husband and I talk a lot about is God's faithfulness in our life. And I think I talked about this on a past podcast, just even journaling the things that Yeah. How God has showed up in your life. So when you do enter a stage where you're like, wait. What's going on? Why is this happening? You can kinda look back and go, wait. God is God's trustworthiness. So I he's been faithful to me. He was faithful to me in that. He's not gonna stop being faithful to me now, even though I might not see it. But I think the feelings that the future does, instill in us, whether that's fear or anxiety or the past, would be on shame. I just think that is what the enemy wants. Yeah. He wants us to be focused on the fear and the anxiety or the, I can't trust God. Like, I don't know what's happening, or the opposite of the guilt and the shame. It just robs us of trusting God, you know, in that. And, like, that that is faith. That's what God is asking of us. So Yeah. How you know, the point that that that Cliff had that Jamie and I were talking about is how do we live in the tension though of saying, hey. The fundamental question is answered about trust. Okay? We've got tangible trust. We've got things we can look to. We know that we have Jesus. Mhmm. The evidence of Jesus' life, of his death, of his resurrection is historically documented. Like, that happened. That is tangible. That is our answer to our question. But how do we live in the tension of not having all of our other questions answered? All the things that happened to us, or that we've seen happen that don't make sense, That can be trauma. That can be I mean, it can be really heavy, hard stuff. How do we exist in that tension of saying, I've got my fundamental question answered, but not all these other ones. And what does that look like? Yeah. Testing. And and just try to help other people. It might not be even for you personally, but how Mhmm. Can we help other people when we think about that? Yeah. I I don't know if this I don't know if we will fully answer that for ourselves or anybody listening this morning. But that's one thing, in the book of Hebrews, you see in chapter 11, the hall of faith, and Mhmm. There's this listing of you you know, you can look at this and you can see Of all the people, like, you know, like, their faith and their and you get to the end, it's like, because we're surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses. But even then, the author of Hebrews will say, fix your eyes on Jesus, the founder and the protector of our faith. And so I think you and I can look at these and try to remember, you know, like, Sarah, you were talking about with journaling these things. And I was just thinking of Deuteronomy saying, you know, take care not to forget. Yeah. So, like, write it down so that you don't forget it. We can do that, and that's, like, maybe these, like, Hebrews 11 type moments. But at the end of the day, we can only truly hope. Yeah. Because Jesus is the sure and steadfast anchor of our soul. He's the only one that's really worth fixing our eyes on. Mhmm. And so it's remembering him above all that other stuff. Mhmm. I think for me, I something that I've, go to is and it kinda stem stems from the Hebrews 11 is I see the testimony of so many other people. Yeah. Like, we all know I I don't wanna get emotional with this. We have a friend right now that's suffering a lot. And, you know, I but what I know for sure is her faith in Christ and her steadfastness and the way that her faith is on display because she trusts Jesus above everything else. Yeah. And I think I can I could rattle off 10 more people that I've seen happen when they're in the middle of cancer diagnosis, when they're in the middle of, I mean, incredibly difficult things? And their anchor being in Christ is incredible and is, you know, is an example to me, makes me make sense when I have my own little silly questions. And but I think that's what Hebrews 11 speaks to. Obviously, we have all the examples in scripture, but we see them around us day to day, and and those that are living out their faith. Well, and I and, like, kinda like you said, that's why I think the local church is such a gift. Yeah. Yeah. And why God established that here on this earth and acts is because we do need like, we need each other. We need the community, to be around each other in that and to see the, like, testimonies of people. Because I feel like she has every reason to go, like, this friend of ours, to go to God and be like, what in the world? What is this? Why is this happening? Enough, God. Like yeah. Right? It really is. And so when you see her and her, like, you have this overwhelming love that she has for God and complete trust, You're just going, okay. Okay. Who am I? Right. Yeah. In a sense And not trust God in that. Yeah. The encouragement of seeing her fix her eyes. Exactly. Oh, Jesus. Founder and perfecter of your faith, and you're like, oh, that's that's something that can spur me forward. Well, and there's no one but God can do that in your life. That's right. I think that's what you know, and I I think when you think, like, you ask the question, well, how do we tell a friend who's really maybe like, a really, like, traumatic event or something that happened in their past that's keeping them from trusting God? I think there's probably you're bound by some chains of guilt and shame, and I just think there has the only way you you you find true freedom is going God. Yeah. Like, just laying your face down and going, I can't do this anymore. That's right. And I need you. And letting God and the Holy Spirit work in your life. And I know that probably feels like not enough, but like you're saying, it is enough. It is. It is enough, and he's the only one that can heal. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the you know, what you miss out on is that. If you are formed and sort of building your life based on your questions Mhmm. Based on hurt, which might be very real, I think what you miss miss out on is being able to have a joy, a peace that endures even when you're staring faith death in the face. Yeah. That was a really good point you made at the beginning and tied back in now. But just the fact that, yeah, that your maturity isn't connected to having everything buttoned up and answered and Yep. Going in all these directions with how deep you are and but, yeah, it's you're trusting Christ and believing the truth of his life, death, and resurrection and that going deep within us. You know? And I don't know if there's another answer to the question of how do we wrestle with not having all the answers Yeah. Other than, hey, is Jesus enough? Is Jesus as Isaac enough? Yeah. Yeah. And, so Romans eight popped into my mind as well where Paul is talking about all of these conflicts and things, and he says, you know, he who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also graciously give us all things? And, like, that's the heartbeat of this. Like, it's enough. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, the the the the suffering you're feeling right now, the anxiety, the questions that you have, those are real. Mhmm. Like, don't just push those down and pretend like they're not there, but you and I can know that because of Jesus, God is for us and who can be against us in the midst of that. Yeah. Right. So Yeah. That was really good. Well, as we think about heading into this week and anyone listening and applying this in their own life, any just challenge or encouragement or, yeah, that we'd leave with people. I'll jump in. Yeah. With the question that you asked me to come up with, and I was thinking of, like, you know, we're when did you know that your spouse was and I was, like, just thinking of marriage and, like, when I knew that Carolyn was enough. But that decision of recognizing that Carolyn was enough has changed everything about the rest of my life. You know, I decided to move forward into that relationship. And so, you know, we're about to celebrate fifteen years. And so we are gonna we are gonna remember that and celebrate that on our anniversary every day. Like, I live my life differently because I have said That's cool. In that moment that Caroline's up. So I'd say, you know, where are you at in that journey? Like, that might that might shape what your next thing is. Like, what challenge I'd give you if you're saying, alright. For the first time, I I see Jesus as enough. Then I'd say, look. What does it look like for you to take a step into that relationship? How is that changing and reframing everything else? Yeah. If you're fifteen years into that, like, what do you need to do to remember that, to refresh that, to to find and soak in the joy of that? You know, if you're just, like, waking up, like, what does it look like to be married? I don't know. So that Well, that should have shaped and changed you every day. Yeah. Right? And it and it's good. Yeah. Fifteen years later, there's still things that you're gonna be adjusting and changing in your life because Yeah. Of Carolyn and likewise, even more because of Jesus. And maybe the challenges. And if you look at your life and you're like, I don't know if this is really shaping and changing how I'm living today. I guess something you should you should be honest about and wrestle through. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I think, you know, I think Zach talked a little bit about how Christianity is unique and how it presents trust. It's not something that we try to earn in the presence of a holy God, but it's something that we receive. And I think the reality that, in eternity, Christ will have scars. We will feel, we will touch, that his trust was bled for us to receive, and to respond to. It just shapes and changes the way you talk about gratitude. You talk about, sharing your faith and being focused on wanting people to not not that you have to have the answer to every theological question, every question of evil, but do you have conviction that Christ's scars earned you the opportunity to receive the opportunity to be with God for eternity? Do you have confidence in that? That ought to shape the way you speak to people. That ought to shape the confidence you ought to have. And I I often opt out of sharing my faith because I'm nervous about questions people might ask about. Not man, I I ought to opt in to sharing my faith because of the confidence of my trust. Brooks, that's huge. Like, the idea of, like, do I not do that because I don't think I have all the answers? But do you have the one answer that mattered Yeah. For every person's eternity. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. Because he did. He talked about, hey. This Isaac answered her the fundamental question That's right. Of, like, am I like, does God love me? Does he want me? But it doesn't answer all the questions. Right? I think for me, I keep going back to this idea because I just thought it was, really important. I think you probably need to identify if it's the past or the future that is holding you back, from truly trusting God. And sometimes I think we aren't actually aware of those things in our life. And I think sometimes, like, you might need someone else To point that out. To point that out to you, whether that's a friend or mentor or maybe a counselor Yeah. Or a pastor here on staff. But I would really encourage you to be honest with yourself and not be honest with God. Like, when we've talked about even being honest with your doubts with God, to go before him and say, like, something's holding me back, and I don't know what that is. So, like, can you help me identify that? And whether that's, you know, the Holy Spirit's giving you that ability to see it or someone else is, I think that's a good step because you won't you're not gonna get your guilt, your shame, your anxiety, your whatever isn't gonna allow you to move past that until you allow God to work in your heart. That really is huge because I I think I don't know. Anxiety is just on my mind right now. I just think that that's something that so many people who struggle with. And Yeah. And it's not as if, you know, God might not come in and just take it away. No. Right? And but being able to lay that down and and really realize that that could be something that is keeping you, and that and that God can help you with as you trust him more deeply and more sharply. Zach's second point is trust is transformational. Yeah. So we we were all kind of talking about that on different levels. It will transform your life. And like you said, it won't it doesn't mean all all the anxiety goes away or all the stuff, but it will change your life. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just thought I'd leave us with a verse that was shared actually with a number of us on staff this week. It's Proverbs three five and six. And and that just says, trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding and in all your ways. In all of them, acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. So I know that encouraged me. That's something I check, as a family, we hold on to a lot and share with each other. So I thought I'd share that. Well, thanks so much for joining me this week. We've got weeks nine and ten ahead of us. Really looking forward to it. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks so much for tuning in to Beyond the Message. Message. Before you leave, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on next week's episode. And all week long, you can find content so that you can grow right where you are on our CCC app, on our YouTube channel, or CCC website as well. So I hope you'll check that out. Again, and this won't be the last thing that you'll take in this week to grow. We'll see you next time.