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The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. Author and lead pastor of Sandals Church, Matt Brown debriefs current issues shaping our culture from a spiritual perspective.
Welcome back to another episode of the Debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown.
I am this week's host, Donna Martin.
And let's jump right in.
I'm excited to get to these questions.
These are amazing.
Yeah.
Thank you, everybody, for these questions.
I read some of them before.
I was like, international debrief.
This is awesome.
Okay, so our first one is from Anonymous.
Okay.
Annie Moss.
Annie Moss.
It says, first, what is going on in is Israel.
Right.
Wow.
Second, is there a certain way I'm supposed to feel about it?
Yeah, I think that I have a couple of emotions on this.
First, obviously, is just deep sadness.
I was actually depressed when I saw this happening, and I think that my challenge to the
church was be spiritual, not political.
And I think that all too often what we do is we run to our political camps.
And I just went to the Lord, and there was just deep grief, and it broke my heart.
I don't know if you guys remember all the geeks in here.
Remember Star Wars, the original Star Wars when the planet blows up and Obi Wan Kenobi
just and he feels the loss.
And I think that there's a part of our Christian spirituality where we've lost that
because we've become so political.
We're not spiritual, and there should just be a deep sense of loss.
But what we tend to do is we run to our political camps.
And the thing that I just want to say to everybody listening to this podcast that's a
Christian, if there are not some aspects of Christianity that don't embarrass you and
deeply trouble you, you're probably not a real Christian.
And I think that's the thing that's missing from everyone in the world is I can't just
cheer for the Christians.
I can't just cheer for the whites.
Do you hear how bad that sounds like for you as a black woman?
There needs to be some things that happen in the black community that bother you and
embarrass you deeply if you're an authentic person.
And I don't know what it is about race, religion and politics where we can't go, okay, I'm
on this side.
I'm on this team.
But this is I don't I want to say this in all seriousness.
I don't know that there's hope for us as humanity if we cannot see the evil in our own
ranks.
And I have friends that live in Israel.
I have friends who are trapped in Israel right now as we speak, because there are still
terrorists in areas of southern Israel.
And one of my friend's grandmother is in this house.
Grandchildren are in this house.
His wife is in this house, and their neighbors have been killed.
Like, they've come in, knocked on the door, and burst their way in, brought the family
into the living room and killed them all.
There's beheadings there's rapings that are taking place.
And then when I see pro Palestinian people marching in the know asking for equal justice.
And I donna know what to do for that.
And so let me just say this.
Israel is not a perfect country.
It's a country, it's a government, just like our country.
And our government is not perfect.
Our government commits sins.
Our government does things that are wrong.
But instead of being left wing or right wing, we need to learn to stand on the truth.
And what is the truth?
Killing innocents, killing babies, raping women?
I don't care what your argument is when that is your choice to express your political
opinion, you're wrong.
You're evil.
That's evil.
And so many young people in our country cannot discern.
Look, when those Ghazan terrorists parachuted into the concert, they didn't just kill
Jews, right?
They killed Arab Palestinians that were there celebrating.
They killed Americans that were there celebrating together.
And so that's the thing, is Israel is a complex, constantly evolving situation.
I have Arab friends that live in Israel that are pro Palestinian.
Their kids serve in the military, they want to live in Israel.
And you say, well, why is that?
Because it's better.
Israel as broken as Israel is, it is better than any other country in the Middle East.
You are freer.
You are better.
Know so many of my liberal friends, they want socialized medicine here.
Israel has socialized medicine.
The terrorists who killed these Israelis will be treated in Israel hospitals and they will
be cared for.
What is happening in Gaza?
They are being beheaded, they are being burned, they are being destroyed.
To express how bad Gaza is, I had a friend of mine who was friends with a missionary that
was in Gaza before 2005 when everybody pulled out.
And so many young people don't understand.
They say free Palestine.
Gaza is free.
It is an independent nation, and they are allowed to do whatever they want since 2005 or
six when Israel pulled out.
And unfortunately, what the government officials, not the Gazan people because I don't
want you and I to be held accountable for what Trump or Biden says.
Like you and I, we're Americans and we don't always get to determine.
Like, I didn't want to be locked down.
I didn't have a choice in that.
My government made that choice for me.
And so a lot of Gazans want peace.
They can't speak out, they can't march in protest.
But a friend of mine ran a Christian bookstore in Gaza that's no longer there, but he led
a Gaza Muslim to Christ.
Do you want to know what happened to that Gaza Muslim in the streets of Gaza?
He was tied by his neck behind a truck and dragged through the streets until he died.
This was in 2004.
Wow.
And his body was left unburied in the streets.
And according to Muslim law, he needs to be buried within 24 hours.
And nothing happened to the individuals who recorded this and did this publicly nothing.
And so many of my gay friends, my trans friends, my uber liberal, progressive friends, you
would be thrown off buildings in Gaza for what you believe.
Mia Khalifa, the porn star who's come out and said, look, I'm for Palestine, she would be
murdered.
She would be murdered by the people that she celebrates.
I don't agree with her lifestyle.
I don't agree with her choices.
But she could live freely in Israel and do what she chooses to do, even though I think
it's morally wrong.
Now?
Are there crazy Jews?
Yeah.
Are there things that are happening right now to Christians in Israel that I disagree
with?
Absolutely.
Some of the fundamentalists who are Jews in Israel, I have deep issues with them.
I have problems with them.
I do not like interacting with them.
Jews are people.
Have you ever met a black person you don't like?
Yeah, absolutely.
I don't care what your race is, what your religion is.
There are aspects of your society, your people, your group that are broken people.
One of my favorite interviews with Tupac before he died was he just talked about, he said,
look, the crackhead who lives next door to my mama don't care that I'm black.
He's going to rape my mama and beat me up because he's evil.
Right?
And so what we need to do as Christians is quit looking black white, quit looking Jew
gentile, quit looking Palestinian.
Israel.
We need to say, is this Israel or is this not?
And unfortunately, truth has become in America a fundamentalist right wing perspective.
And it just makes me so sad.
The fact that even Barack Obama is being condemned for coming out and saying this is
heinous, this is disgusting.
And to put this in perspective for all of our young people who feel like the Palestinians
are embarrassment treated, number one, I would encourage you to do some real research on
the conflict.
Hezbollah is now shooting rockets.
Those are Palestinian refugees in Lebanon who, listen to me, have not been treated fair in
Lebanon.
They've never been given citizenship in Lebanon.
They are forced to live in Slums in Lebanon.
Lebanon has done that to them.
The same thing in Jordan, the same thing in parts of Know.
All of these Arab countries could bring these Palestinians into their countries.
In Saudi Arabia, I got news for you, there's nothing but land.
There is more than enough room for these people, but they don't want that because they
want the Palestinians to remain mistreated so that there's an issue and an axe to grind.
It's like so many of the issues that we face in America.
If you're a black person, does the political party that you vote for ever want you to not
be poor?
Right.
Because they have power when you're poor.
And so who are the people that truly want to set you free?
And it drives me crazy.
Don't root for a team.
Root for truth.
And so there are sometimes when white conservative evangelicals and I am those three are
deeply wrong.
Yeah.
And I have to be ashamed by that, troubled by that, and speak out against that because I
must be on the side of truth.
And in this issue, gaza is not Palestine, it's not the West Bank, it's not Lebanon.
These people and not the people of Gaza, but the politicians who are in power.
And by the way, do you guys know when they came into power, what happened to the party
that lost?
They killed them all.
They don't exist anymore.
They murdered every single one of the party they defeated.
And so to say that we need to sit down, we need to negotiate.
Like some of the Democratic the squad, what are they called?
Talib or whatever name.
Well, Tlaib got called out because she had a Palestinian flag right next to her rainbow
flag.
And they were like, does she not understand that those people would be decimated?
Everyone wearing a rainbow flag would die instantly.
And I think it's an intentional ignorance.
Or maybe it's not, I don't know.
But what we need to understand is what happened is it's gross?
Yeah.
Call out the evil for what it is.
It's evil.
Yeah.
And so I was sharing with a friend of mine yesterday.
I have a man in our church who went through an ugly divorce.
He felt mistreated by his wife.
He felt lied to.
He lost his home, he lost his standing.
And he was so angry that he had been so mistreated by his government, by his family, and
by his friends.
He beat his ex wife to the point of death.
Wow.
And here's what I told him.
You had a point until and that's what I would say the Palestinians have a point and tell.
There's no excuse for what he did.
There's no excuse for grabbing women out of their cars, grabbing the elderly, decapitating
children, murdering these people.
I understand there are legitimate grievances.
There are legitimate concerns.
There is a better way than what you did.
This is the danger of victimhood.
When I become a victim, I excuse my evil to overcome.
And I'm pointing at you, but your evil and this is why scripture is so important for us
Christians.
Romans says, never repay evil with evil.
It doesn't say occasionally.
It doesn't say sometimes.
Never.
Because this is what happens.
This is the cycle that we get into.
And it's why people like Martin Luther King were so important because he refused to
retaliate and he refused know violently go against when there was a lot of know malcolm X
had a different perspective.
And there's a reason we celebrate Martin Luther King Day and not Malcolm X day.
And not that Malcolm X didn't have legitimate issues.
It's just that when you give into evil, you become evil and it destroys you.
And Israelis have done that.
There's a great movie called Munich where if you go back and watch know retaliating for
the horrific evil that was committed against their athletes in the Olympics.
But at some point you have to deal with so also for so many young people in Israel, there
are powerful politicians that are against what's happening to Palestinians, that speak out
against it, that want a two state solution, that are moving towards that.
And there is diversity of thought, and it is legal and protected in Israel.
That is not the case in other countries.
It's absolutely not the case.
And just so you know, Hamas has bombed and killed people in Egypt.
Hamas bombs and kills people everywhere that they disagree with.
And to try for some of these people to say, well, we just need to sit down and talk, you
need to understand these are the same people that got on airplanes.
This is the same mentality that got on airplanes.
Sit next to Moms.
That's right.
That mat next to children.
That mat next to your grandmother and took over the plane and flew it into a building.
You cannot negotiate with this disease.
So what we have to do is we have to try to deal with this disease and not become infected
by it.
And that's my prayer for Israel as they do this, because it's going to be difficult to
exercise restraint when the wounds are so deep.
And so what I would say to everyone is Palestinians are mistreated.
There are things that are happening in the court system in Israel that I disagree with,
that I have problems with, just like you and I, there are decisions that are rendered in
America that I do not agree with and we can all appreciate and understand.
I mean, what's happening to Donald Trump in these court cases?
I would guess, depending on your political position, you think either absolutely or you
think this is an atrocity and those same things happen in Israel.
So what I would say is, let's pray.
Let's try to remain humble.
And I would just encourage you, if you're not depressed or saddened over this.
I want to ask you, OK, where's the Holy Spirit in your life today?
Because this and it's not over as we speak, this is not over.
And you're going to hear this in the left wing media.
Innocent gazins will die.
And that makes me sad, because the Hamas terrorists will hide behind them.
Yeah, they'll use them as human shields.
They could care less.
They just want to get their point across.
And there's no one on their side of the government that's protecting their innocent
people.
It's bad.
Yeah.
I woke up this morning feeling really heavy, and I was just like, what is going on, Lord?
And I felt like the Lord just said, you got to cut off the news for a Is.
This is rough.
This is really.
These leaders, many of these Muslim leaders, like Erdogan, he would as soon kill his own
people and destroy his own people who disagree with him politically in the name of Islam.
And really what it's about is power.
He wants absolute power.
He has imprisoned and incarcerated everyone who opposed him.
There's no free elections there.
He's destroyed his country.
And so people are saying, well, even Turkey.
And it's like, look, man, the Middle East is a rough neighborhood.
It is a difficult place.
And as flawed as Israel is, it is the best place to live.
Because even in today Saudi Arabia, Qatar, many of these other countries, all the
foreigners who live there do not have rights.
They do not have rights.
I want to remind everyone that Saudi Arabia outlawed slavery in the 70s, in the 1970s.
And the truth is, I think it still goes on there today.
And we talk a lot about slavery here in America.
There are more slaves, you guys, in the world today, absolutely.
Than there were when slavery was legal in the you know, we navel gaze and look to the
past.
Let's look to the present and deal with the reality.
I just would say be grieved.
I'll put in the notes a great book that I think deals with both sides, the mistakes made
on both sides during this process.
But ultimately, Israel has repeatedly come to the table, has repeatedly tried to find a
two state solution.
And you cannot have a two state solution when the other side says you have no right to
live.
Yeah.
It's not your right to your land.
We don't want you to live.
Yeah.
You have no right to live.
And I think both parties have a legitimate right to live in the land.
I think Jews do, and I think Palestinians do.
But ultimately, what has to win at the end of the day is the decision to live together.
But that's not for me.
So I just grieve and pray and hope.
And again, I know we're going to get some comments on this.
This is deeply personal to me.
I was texting with a good friend of mine last night.
He's separated from his wife.
He's in the north, she's in the south.
They cannot meet.
One of our tour guides that I'm very close to, you know who I'm talking about.
Very strong man.
He's always we got this.
I text him and I said, I'm going to use his English name.
Moses is his English name.
He said, we're not okay.
Please pray for us.
This is scary.
Pastor Matt.
That's what he said.
All tourists have been evacuated.
Think about that.
All everyone's out.
Just pray.
So let's just pray right now.
Yeah, absolutely.
Heavenly Father, we just pray for Israel right now.
We pray for all of those involved.
And God, I know some of the criticism has come on my Instagram and from the show.
What about the Palestinians, God?
We pray for them, too.
There are going to be so many casualties even of Palestinians who love Israel, who care
for Israel, who want peace in Israel.
And, Lord, that's the problem.
When evil strikes, Lord, good people in Israel and Palestine will die.
And good people in Gaza will die.
And they are only in Gaza because they have no other choice and they can go nowhere else.
So, God, we pray for peace.
We pray for nations and leaders to stand up for what is true and right.
And God, just deliver us from this political insanity of my team.
Who cares about what team you're on?
Lord, stand on the side of truth.
Help us to stand on the side of truth.
We pray this in Jesus name.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Here's another one.
Anonymous from Pineville, Louisiana.
Yes.
Love, Louisiana.
Louisiana, thank you for your sermon series on women.
I'm recently divorced from a narcissistic and abusive man after 30 years of marriage,
during our time attending church and therapy together, the truth of a porn addiction was
finally revealed.
He was unwilling to give that up.
The teaching of submitting to the leadership of the husband has in many ways been
detrimental for me as I did all I could do to honor my husband.
Please clarify more specifically what is healthy and unhealthy for our younger and older
wives wrestling with how to honor the Lord and also not live in abusive marriages?
Yeah.
So remember what I said to the previous question.
There should be things about your religion that embarrass you.
And this is one of those things for me.
It's why I think it's so important that women should be in leadership in the church.
Because I think when you get a bunch of men making decisions, they don't understand what
it's like to be a woman in an abusive situation where you are not stronger, you are not
bigger, and your life is in danger.
And so I think as a young pastor her name is Annie Moss.
Annie Moss.
Annie Moss.
When I was a young pastor, I often preached from a place of health and from a place of
assumptions.
And specifically, I remember one time I'm so embarrassed by this, donna, don't judge me
from stage.
I said that a Christian couple should have sex two to three times a week.
And there were men in our church that made their wives do that.
Wow.
And I remember when a woman was sitting in my office weeping because her abusive husband
made her have sex with him.
And it broke me.
And I realized, okay, the problem with their marriage wasn't sex.
Right?
Their problem was he was an abuser.
So even when I'm answering this question, I'm making the assumption that what she's saying
is true.
I'm making the assumption that he was narcissist.
I'm making assumptions.
And just so you know, everyone, the truth is so hard to figure out.
And I think it's proverbs 1714.
Can somebody look it up?
The first to speak seems true until he's cross examined.
And I have just learned so many times, our friends lie to us, our coworkers lie to you
know, it's like Ashton Kutcher got in all that trouble because he wrote a letter for his
friend who was raping his girlfriend.
You don't know what people are doing in their bedroom.
You don't know.
It's always the mama on TV.
Not my son.
I'm like, you don't know your son.
You don't know what he does when you're not around.
And so we have to understand that evil is real.
And so here's what I would say for every woman.
Yes, the Bible says that women should submit to their husbands.
But the preceding verse that is so often forgotten, says, submit one to another out of
reverence for Christ.
So the way that I teach that, Annie Moss, is that a woman is only required to submit to a
husband who is submitting to you in reverence for Christ.
Submission is mutual or nothing at all.
So oftentimes, the Bible says in Genesis, chapter two, that God made a woman a helper
suitable for him.
And so we in the English language, we take that word helper, and we make it like, what's
that movie about the black ladies from Louisiana?
The help or Mississippi.
So in English, the word helper or the help is subservient.
But the word used in Genesis two is the same word that God uses to describe Him in how he
helps us.
It is an empowering and a source of strength.
Help.
So a woman is not to be subservient.
A woman is a strong and ever present help for a man in his weakness.
And that's what it's for.
And I started to preach there.
Sorry about that.
What I would say is there is chauvinism in the church, and it's wrong.
It's sinful, and it's gross, and it's something that we need to repent from as a church,
just as I think feminism is something that should be repented from in the, uh I forget,
what was the famous Supreme Court justice who said how many women should be on the Supreme
Court?
And she said nine.
Ruth bader ginsburg.
I love a lot of things that Ruth Bader Ginsburg said, and a lot of conservatives don't
know this, but she was the most outspoken liberal who said Roe vs.
Wade was wrong.
Wow.
That's what she said.
She said it went too far because it should never have given women carte blanche permission
to abort at any time, because what it said is it can't be regulated.
And she was like, Wait a minute.
Yeah, this is too far.
And a lot of conservatives don't know that.
But nine women on this?
That's just as dumb as nine men.
It's not helpful.
And so what we want to do is we want to have women in leadership.
We want to have men in leadership.
Chauvinism is just as bad as feminist.
So what I would say is what we need is we need to challenge couples to have a healthy
marriage.
Yeah.
Not a subservient.
You know, I was just told that one of our ex employees got married.
They don't attend Santa's church anymore.
But in their wedding vows, the pastor of this new church said, when he's not Godly, just
submit and pray to God about.
And the actual text that Paul uses is for an unbelieving husband, right?
Absolutely.
He quoted a verse and girl.
Right.
If he's a Christian, he responds to the Lord.
And it's the same thing Paul says to Philemon, who's the slave master.
He says, hey, Philemon, you have a master.
And I am sending this man to you not as a slave, but as a brother.
And he goes, I could tell you what to do, which I won't.
But then he does.
The apostle Paul does.
And he's like, look, you owe your spiritual life to me.
And so I just think that there's so much culturally that's broken here because a male
dominated chauvinist society is not biblical.
Right.
It was American, it was British, but it's not biblical.
And so we need to have strong women.
I don't know if you've ever met a woman that's I want to be a Proverbs 31 woman.
And she stays at home.
I'm like, well, then get a job, because a Proverbs 31 woman is working.
She's working, she's handling her business and she is servant.
Yeah.
And so a strong woman has an opinion, has a voice.
And that's so important.
Absolutely.
And they're actual in the Hebrew language.
Ata is the pronoun for masculinity in Hebrew.
And at is feminine.
There are actually instances in the scripture where God is referred to with mat in the
feminine pronoun because male and female both reflect the image of God, both reflect the
character of God.
And some people don't know that.
And so what I would say is, I'm sorry, that was wrong.
Narcissists only love one thing themselves.
Narcissists don't love Jesus.
I don't care how much they quote Jesus, they don't love Jesus.
They are broken.
And I was in an unhealthy relationship with a Narcissist for 20 years, and the only thing
I could do was break it off.
I created a boundary.
I don't speak to him.
I don't talk to Him anymore.
And he gets all choked up and cries in the name of Jesus when he prays over our food.
But he lives like Satan relationally.
And there's no confronting him.
There's no talking to him.
He's just evil and he's a Narcissist.
And I thought, wrongly, Donna, I could change him, I could help him, and I couldn't.
And I had to let him go.
And that was tough.
And so we don't speak.
Right?
Yeah.
So I'm sorry.
Annie Moss.
That's wrong.
And again, that's an aspect of conservative Christianity that is broken.
It's my complaint with the Southern Baptist Convention.
There were instances where women were raped at seminaries and they were told to pray about
it.
It's like, what?
Yeah.
Now, thank God those seminary presence were disposed and fired, but it only came out years
later.
And why is that?
Because there were no women in leadership to speak out and say this is wrong.
Very good.
Thank you.
I know, man, I'm preaching today.
Yes.
We're going to get through, like, three.
Questions from Berlin, Germany.
Whoa.
I know.
Hi, Carolyn.
Hi, Pastor Matt and the Sandals Church team.
I've been wondering for a while how we can deal with the fear arising from not yet knowing
God's plan for us in the areas that are deeply important to us.
So, for example, I can't help wondering if I'll ever have a husband and kids.
I'm 25 now, and the more time passes, the more I fear that maybe I am not even meant to
have this, as I know that not everyone is meant to live this way.
However, I have dreamt of being a wife and mother since I was a little girl, and I've
prayed about it more often than I can count.
Do I just need to let it go or hold on to this vision for my future?
Yeah.
What's her name?
Her name is Carolyn.
Carolyn.
I have a book coming out March 5 next year called Everyday a Miracle.
And one of the things, one of the chapters is on waiting.
Yeah, waiting.
How do you know God's will?
So there's two chapters.
One is discerning God's will and one is learning to wait.
And so what I would say is read both those chapters and I don't know that it'll be
translated in German, but I'm assuming she speaks English, but I would really work through
both of those.
The hardest thing when you're praying for something and wanting something is waiting.
And so I would say you're 25.
Yeah, there's some time.
But western culture is shifting.
Young men don't want to get married.
They don't know how to pursue.
And one of the things that has changed the mind of men is pornography.
They no longer know how to pursue women.
So what porn does, if you're a man, is it turns you into the woman.
She pursues you, she comes after you.
She is actually the male in the relationship.
So God has designed men to pursue women.
And so in a traditional society right.
Sex is not the reason for marriage, but it is a strong goal for a lot of men, and that's a
very strong thing.
And so if they're getting sex outside of that, if they're getting sex with porn, that's
what's happening.
And so many young men are battling that.
And if you're a guy that's battling for that, I'm praying for you.
We have sexual freedom that meets on Tuesday nights at Santa's church.
Just go up and say you don't even have to say, hey, I'm struggling with porn.
Just say hey, I.
Would like information about the men's group on Tuesday nights.
They'll know what you mean and you can wink.
Absolutely.
But we need that.
And so what I would just say is just bring that before the Lord.
Sit and wait patiently and then put yourselves in situations where you're hanging out with
men who want to be married.
And so my assistant, three assistants ago, her name was Stephanie, and I think she got
married in her thirties.
I can't remember.
But she was broken hearted over this and it really bothered her.
And this was the prayer of her heart.
And I don't know that you'll have to wait six more years, but I love her husband.
He's a fantastic guy.
I'm super proud of him.
They have two kids now, and I got to watch God answer that prayer.
I actually cried at her wedding when I got to do the ceremony.
And so I would just say, bring this before the Lord.
I cannot promise you that you'll get married, but what I would say is marriage is a good
thing, so it can be a God thing.
So pray for that and just bring it before the Lord and be willing to wait patiently.
And what I would say is, singleness is a beautiful season of your life.
Learn whatever you can.
And what I tell Stephanie all the time when her marriage is hard or kids are real hard, I
remember we prayed for this, right?
Because marriage is hard and it is challenging.
And I know your husband is amazing, but he's a human being, which means he's a sinner and
you're a sinner, which I mean, it's hard to believe that Donna sins.
But you did once.
One time.
Yeah, once.
One day.
But marriage is very, very challenging.
And so singleness provides challenges, but so does marriage.
And so what I would say the Christian is we have to learn to trust God in whatever season
we're in.
We have to learn to trust Him in marriage, and we have to learn to trust Him in
singleness.
What I would say is don't have sex, don't compromise, but learn to wait and wait for that
man who's waiting for you.
Because there could be a man, and I don't know if it's in Berlin, Germany, or not, but
oftentimes in bigger cities, it's harder to get married.
Yeah.
So you may need to get out of the big city.
Know cities are not made for marriage.
And it's why when couples get married and have kids, guess what they do?
They leave the city.
And I know all the people like, oh, my gosh, the suburbs are more conducive to family
life.
The city is tough on families.
Some people do it typically it's super poor or the super wealthy, but middle income people
typically get out of the city because it just is not conducive to married life.
But I'll be praying for you.
And I don't know what God's will is.
And here's the thing to everybody listening, oftentimes we don't.
We don't.
But we have to trust him anyways, because God is good, and I'll be praying for you.
And you know how people say, Donna, life is short?
Let me say this to her.
Life is long.
So I know she thinks her biological clock is ticking.
Life is long.
And whoever this guy is, he's worth the wait.
So many amazing, beautiful, incredible.
Of course, this is my opinion.
Friends that are closer to my age, late 30s, never married, never no kids.
And we're like, Jesus, where are the boys?
Where are the men, Father?
And I've been praying for a particular friend for several years for this, but she is
thriving.
She serves in her church, pastors at her church.
She's thriving.
She is amazing.
And I just go, Lord, keep giving her the grace, but send the man.
Yeah.
And I would say this, Donna, the stronger the woman, the more intimidating.
Oh, absolutely.
We are the men.
Her and I have had this conversation.
I mean, she leads such a high level and she's got high standards and all of the things,
and she's beautiful and she exercises all the things but I've been praying for I'm like,
where are I would hate to be dating right now in this culture.
Yeah, absolutely.
There's this great book.
It was one of the best books I've ever written.
It's called the boy crisis.
And so there was a time in our country where women were mistreated, women were second
class citizens.
It was terrible.
It was wrong, it was ugly.
We've overcorrected.
And now women are dominating in every field, in everything.
And our men are failing and our men are struggling.
And we need strong women to say, okay, if we want strong men like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, how
many women?
No.
Right.
No.
What we need is 4.5 because you can't have five.
But you need 4.5 strong, morally solid, wise men on the judicial system.
That's what we need.
And how are we building and raising those men?
And that's what I think we need.
But men just get slaughtered in this culture, and it's rough.
And so we need to learn to build them up and to encourage them because it's tough.
Great question.
Great question.
Thank you, Carolyn.
Okay.
This is Ashwin from Chennai, India.
Wow.
India.
Yes, dude.
Sandals International.
I know.
That's what I said.
This is, like, international debrief today.
Okay, so my ex Hindu friend in India became a Christian by seeing Jesus appear in her
room.
Wow.
Jesus told her to follow him, and she has been a Christian ever since.
Why doesn't Jesus physically appear to every person in this way if he wants every person
to believe in him and be saved?
Yeah.
And so I like to spend a lot of time talking to my Calvinist friends.
This is where my theology differs from Calvinists.
The Lord does different things to lead different people to Christ.
Absolutely.
He does not lead us all the same way.
The apostle Paul had Jesus appear to him.
Why didn't every Palestinian Jew receive that?
Because every person is loved by God, but every person has a different role in the kingdom
of God.
And so the reason God appeared to Paul is the same reason that he probably appeared to
your friend, because he had a specific task in mind for this individual.
So what I would say is this individual probably has an incredible role in the kingdom of
God and their role is indispensable to what God wants to do in India.
Yeah.
And so he wants to make sure that this person knows their role.
And so think about it this way.
In World War II, every soldier's life was precious.
Every soldier's life.
But George Patton.
Not third grade Marshall.
I forget Marshall's.
General Marshall.
I'll just say General Marshall.
Their lives were more important for the sake of the world in defeating Nazism.
So every life is precious, every soul matters.
But in order for God to bring about his purposes and in order for God to bring about his
plans, from time to time, he intervenes in human history.
This is what miracles are.
Miracles are simply God intervening in the way that things are and changing the very
fabric of reality.
That's what I talk about in my book of miracles.
My book of miracles, my book called Everyday a Miracle is people don't realize, they often
get discouraged when they don't get their miracle.
You're asking God to change the fabric of reality.
Yeah, absolutely.
Which he does from time to time, but for a specific purpose and reason.
So my last chapter in the book, god used me to raise a little boy from the dead.
Why?
I've prayed over other children that have died.
That has not happened.
It's not me.
Yeah.
Why did God do that?
You know what's happened in that city in Kabang, Vietnam?
God planted a church there in a completely non Christian town.
He did a miracle in an or room in front of doctors, anesthesiologists and nurses, and now
there's a church there.
And so oftentimes God will use a miracle and do something miraculous to start faith.
But ultimately the normative way that people come to faith is we preach the Gospel.
The gospel is enough of God to turn someone to God.
So the gospel is enough.
That's the normal way.
So God does not want to circumvent Himself because he wants us to choose to turn to Him
freely.
But ultimately when he appeared to her friend right, it actually makes it impossible for
her to not turn.
But he did that for her because she has a purpose in life.
And so I'm going to guess she's a leader, she's a church planter.
God is going to use her dynamically.
And oftentimes where the word of God is not present, the scriptures people encounter the
person of God.
So let me say that again where the word of God is not present, people encounter the person
of God because God loves all people.
He loves Hindus, he loves Muslims, he loves atheists, he loves our society is saturated
with the gospel.
That doesn't mean that God can't appear or doesn't appear, and he does to times.
I feel like the Lord appeared to me when my friend committed suicide and I was struggling
with is he in heaven or not?
Right?
So God can do this, but that is not the norm and we need to trust God's word.
And so that's a great question.
Second part to this question, he says no one would suffer for eternity in hell if God
didn't create it in the first place or create us in the first place.
God is self sufficient, so he didn't need to create us.
Why did God still create knowing that many will suffer eternity?
Right?
So there's a couple of issues there.
So one is the doctrine of what is hell.
So Christians are not unified on what is that?
Second is he said God did not need anything.
No.
But God is love.
And what does love naturally want to do?
Love needs to love.
And so love, if you were on an island all by yourself and you never met anyone, you
wouldn't know what love is.
By definition, for you to experience love, you must have someone else.
This is why the Trinitarian understanding of God is so important.
Because if the Muslim understanding of God is true or the Jewish understanding of God is
true, there may have been a time when he was alone.
The Trinity says God has never been alone.
God has always for eternity been father, Son and Holy Spirit.
He is a relational God that in and of Himself loves the Father, loves the Son, the Son
loves the Father, the Spirit loves the Son.
It's this perfect unity of love.
So if you want a definition of what God is, he's this unity of love.
So the next thing is what is hell?
And we could do a whole debrief where we just ask people to send in questions on the
doctrine of hell.
But there are three Greek words for hell.
Notice I don't have my notes in front of me, so if I say these wrong, don't come at me.
But the first word Peter uses is Tarturus, which is really a place of torment.
The second word is Hades, which is really just kind of the place or realm of the dead in
Greek understanding.
And then the third word is an Aramaic word, a word that Jesus uses.
It's translated in Greek, genna.
But in Hebrew it's gehenna or Aramaic.
And we think it's a dumpster, like a place where you threw trash and garbage.
And it may have been a place mat one time where the Jews sacrificed children.
We're not sure.
I know a lot of pastors have preached sermons on that, but we're not sure.
So those are three Greek words.
None of them are the English word hell.
And so out of that in Luke 18, jesus talks about a rich man in Lazarus.
And let me remind everyone it's a parable, right?
So out of that parable, the rich man is in torment and in anguish.
So that's where the idea of torment comes from.
But he's talking and what he wants is water.
So he's not being like, it could be he's really hot day, he's not refreshed.
And so he's a rich guy.
So maybe he's being speaking to hyperbole, I'm in torment.
We don't know.
Like if I was in torment, I wouldn't be having a conversation with you.
Right.
So that's where that idea comes from then for the book of Revelation, the eternal lake of
fire.
So there's two understandings of hell.
One is that Hell is annihilation.
So what's the argument of that?
So, you know, John 316, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever should believe with him should not what perish, but have ever testing life.
So those people believe that the opposite of eternal life is death.
So what happens to those who don't believe?
Jesus is you get to live your life, you live it for yourself.
You do not live forever.
You die.
So what happens to you in the second death is you stand before God, you're judged for your
life and you don't live forever.
The second understanding is that souls exist forever and that people exist in Heaven
forever and in Hell forever.
What I would say is I don't know what Hell is.
The Bible seems to speak different things and this is going to make conservatives lose
their mind, but it speaks different things.
Here's what I tell people.
Hell is where Jesus said you don't want to go.
Yeah, he said this.
It would be better that you gouge out your eye and cut off your hand than go to what?
By the way, he didn't say hell.
He said gehenna.
Every time he speaks of that.
Well, every time except one.
I think he says I have to look it up when he says Gehenna, when he says Hades.
Because I think when he says, I will build my church in the gates of hell, I think he says
Hades.
That's the word that he uses there.
But I don't have my Greek New Testament in front of me.
But usually he uses the word gehenna.
Gehenna is his favorite term for the place of punishment.
Here's the amazing thing, and some of you guys don't know this.
In the 13 letters that the Apostle Paul writes, he never mentions Hell once.
Wow.
Yeah.
The Apostle Paul mentions two things, the kingdom of God and wrath.
Judgment.
Judgment.
Those are the two things that he uses.
Never mentions hell once.
I don't think that means that he didn't have a theology of hell.
I think that for Paul the Evangelist, he was know the kingdom of God, which is what we
inherit.
And you want to go there, you want to be a part of this.
It's going to be great.
And then judgment is standing before God, and then whatever happens after that, you don't
want that.
And the wrath of God will come on those who don't believe.
So what that is how that is, we don't know.
So I think it's important that we don't adopt the current cultural Christian view of what
hell is.
A lot of Christians are divided on this.
I was taught in seminary that hell is a never ending place of torment.
As I've matured and grown through the Bible, I see differences.
There's a great book, I'll put it in the show notes.
It's called Two Views of hell.
Fantastic non biased looks at kind of both arguments.
We just don't know.
What I just tell people is, you don't want to go there.
Why would a loving God torture someone forever?
I just do not understand.
Now, now, let me argue against myself.
How many lifetimes does Adolf Hitler need to suffer?
Because there are two things that you need to think about.
Not only did Adolf Hitler torture and kill the 6 million Jews or the millions of Jews I
don't know what the full number was, but he also tortured and murdered the lives of the
living who lost their loved one.
It's not just the people he killed.
And this is oftentimes what we, I think in our judicial system that's so broken, is we
fail to consider the suffering of the living.
We're so fascinated with taking care of the criminals that we don't ever think about the
victims in our culture.
So I think that's important.
So how many lifetimes should Hitler suffer?
I would say more than one.
I would vote like, if God asked me, I'd be like, yeah, he could give a couple thousand
years of some burning.
I might be willing to poke him.
A couple of times.
Because how do you undo that?
And then on the reverse side, this is going to blow people's minds when Isaiah sees the
future.
So Isaiah prophesied not about heaven I'm looking at our staff, but about the new Earth
and the new Heaven.
Guess what he sees?
Donna children.
Yeah.
Where did those kids come from?
I wonder if those are the children that people lost.
So how does he restore the tears?
What if he allows you to raise them?
You don't lose that child, right?
But you got to raise them on the new earth and the new heaven, where there's no sickness,
where there's no death, where the lion lies down with the lamb, where the child puts his
hand in the cave of the viper and it does not strike.
And so I think that a lot of what we've understood as western Christians has divorced
itself from the kingdom of God.
And they're just things.
What's this person's name?
This is ashwin.
Yeah.
So Ashwin, go to Revelation, chapter 22.
When the new Jerusalem falls, there's a wall around the city.
Why?
And then it says, so that cowards, the dogs.
And I forget the next there's three adjectives.
The cowards, the dogs.
I can't remember the third word.
Cannot get in.
Okay, but they're on the new Earth.
Sorcerers.
Thank you.
Sorcerers.
See, I'm not a Harry Potter fan.
I forgot that.
So the sorcerers.
So I think that again, what I would say to everybody when we're talking about theology,
the most important word for us is the Apostle Paul says, we now see things through a dimly
lit mirror.
We can't see on the other side.
Hold on to the essentials.
Here's what the essentials is.
There's no way for a person to be saved other than through Jesus.
What is hell?
We don't know.
Jesus said, you don't want to go there.
And I would say this.
People donna realize this.
A lot of people think that heaven is communism.
Like everything's equal.
You've not read Jesus.
You have not read Jesus.
You will be rewarded for what you have done in this life.
That's right.
And many Christians, man, they are selling out now, and you are going to miss out later.
So, like Tammy and I tithe every week, I believe the Lord in the next life, will pay me
back 100 times for whatever I gave 100 times.
And some of you, all my cheap Christians, you're going to come to my sweetheart and you're
going to miss out, because the Lord is going to bless you not just in this life, but in
the next life, and you're going to miss out.
So I believe.
Here's what I believe.
I believe heaven will be personal.
I believe judgment will be personal.
And so some people could be tormented.
Some people could just be annihilated.
Hell could just be and C.
S.
Lewis argued this way that hell is a prison that's locked from the yeah, we don't know.
I had a dream when I was in high school that I went to heaven.
And the Bible says we'll cast our crowns before the Lord.
And everybody had these huge crowns and jewels, and they're heavy, and they're like,
lifting them off, and they're like, casting them before the Lord.
And I had a Burger King paper crown, and I was like, trying to give it to the Lord, but
all I had done was worth a Happy Meal, basically.
Yeah, the Lord don't like, that was in high school.
And I remember that rocked me.
I woke up from that dream thinking, I can't live.
Like, yeah, heaven is absolutely personal.
We will be rewarded.
You don't want to see me.
I won't have a Burger King crown.
Hopefully it's a little bigger than that.
And so, by the way, Paul, the person of grace, all the doctrine of grace, salvation by
grace alone.
Paul constantly and consistently talks about the judgment seat of Christ that Christians
will stand before and be held accountable.
Right.
All right, great question.
Great.
Okay, a couple more.
Amanda from Riverside, our first local.
Okay.
We have a child I love this question so much with an intellectual disability.
I'm not sure he 100% understands salvation.
Is his salvation predicated on my salvation because of his lack of understanding?
Or is there a loophole by which he will be saved?
For him, the lines between reality and imagination can blur.
This can help him to keep a childlike faith, but also have him not know what's real.
Also, can you speak to the salvation of those who clearly don't have any understanding
because of diminished mental?
Absolutely.
That's a fantastic question.
So one of the things that we need to know about God, there's three things.
God is just.
So what would a just God do when it comes to a mentally incapacitated child?
Next.
God is love.
Yeah.
Next.
God is good.
Now let's read John 316 to this.
For God did not come into the world to judge the world, but to save the world through
Christ.
He loved your son.
So what I would say is your son's diminished capacity, he will receive a diminished
judgment.
God will judge him according to his mental capacity and his capability understanding.
And so what I think he's going to experience is the intellect that he's going to be healed
in that.
And so I do not believe that he needs to come to salvation because ultimately, how are
people saved?
I am not saved because I profess my faith in Christ.
I am actually saved because of Christ.
So, like, think about this.
Let's say you murdered my family.
Sorry, I would never and then you asked me for forgiveness.
Right.
Do I owe you?
No.
Right?
And that's what many Christians miss, is you're not saved because you believed or because
you confessed.
You're saved because of Christ.
Your apology means nothing.
Your belief means nothing.
Ultimately, it's because of Christ.
Everyone will stand before Christ.
And actually, the Apostle Paul says in Romans, those who are under the law will be judged
by the law, and those who are not will be judged.
Listen to this.
Apart from the law that's Romans so people are going to be judged.
This is according to Scripture, according to the moral standard that they understand.
Now, that doesn't mean that there isn't right and wrong.
So back to Hamas, even if Hamas believes that what they did was right, it violates the
noaic covenant.
So there are multiple covenants in Scripture, and a lot of people don't understand this.
And this is where Christians are so broken.
And my conservative Christians, I'm worried about America, the covenants of God were never
given to the world.
They're always given to the people of God.
Stop asking your neighbor to honor and follow God's word.
That's your call.
That's your call.
When you go to Israel, have you been?
No.
So if you come with me, the Jews have no expectation of you following the law.
But in America, Christians think everybody should live like a Christian, and it's like,
Wait a minute.
So the noaic law is for everyone, and you can go back and read that after the fall.
And one of those includes don't murder anyone whose blood is spilled.
Their blood must be spilled.
It is morally reprehensible to murder people.
And when you do that, regardless of your religion, regardless of your race, you must be
killed.
There are some things that are for all people in all time, and murdering people is
condemned in Scripture, whether you yeah, it doesn't matter.
So you should not do that.
But outside of that, there's a lot of things where some cultures differ on what they're
doing.
And so what I would just say is that's a great question.
I would trust God, but he is not saved because of you.
So that was her question.
Yeah.
Is there a loophole or is it predicated on her salvation?
No.
And you're saying salvation is from Christ.
Alone, so there is no loophole.
Right.
Even non Christians, if they are saved, atheists if they are saved, muslims if they are
saved, jews if they are saved.
Who am I forgetting?
Hindus.
If they are saved on Judgment Day, the only way they will be saved correct.
Is Christ.
That's right.
And Christ has earned the right to do whatever he wants.
He sits on the judgment throne, and so many Christians have forgotten that.
Now, here's the beauty.
Why am I not afraid?
Because I know, because I've confessed my sin, and I know because I've believed.
I have no fear of judgment.
Right?
I don't have to be afraid of Judgment Day.
Now, it could be long, and I'm sure there's some things that the Lord consistently
throughout my life, the Lord brings things from my past where I just literally say this,
lord, I'm so sorry for that.
Please forgive me for that.
I should have done better.
And I just bring that up to Him, not because my salvation is at stake, but because my
relationship with Him is at stake.
And I want the best relationship possible.
And so I bring those things up to the Lord consistently.
So this is a great question, but everyone will be saved before Christ.
And what's interesting is even Muslims, if they understand their doctrine, understand that
Jesus executes judgment.
Yeah, absolutely.
And think about how terrifying that is.
The very man they reject is the very man they must stand.
Yikes.
Yeah.
So very good.
Thank you, man.
These are great questions.
Amanda.
Okay, Nathaniel from Tacoma, Washington.
I've been a follower of Christ for a few years now, but the struggle of sexual sin has
still been just that, a struggle.
Since following him the sin has continued to weigh heavily on me.
What are some practical steps I can take to help avoid the sin, whether it comes in the
form of lust, porn, or sex before marriage?
I was especially convicted when my girlfriend, who is just now learning about Christ,
called me out on my sin and said, we need to work together to stop it.
Yeah, I always love it when non Christians help Christians be obedient to the Lord.
Yeah, so let's just stop there.
Christians should only date Christians.
The apostle Paul is very clear with this.
I have good friends that have violated this.
I have family members that have violated it.
The apostle Paul said, how can you partner in this way with an unbeliever?
But people do it all the time.
And I think the thing is this it's the same argument that the gay community uses how can
you stand against love?
And then I hear Christians say this well, how can you stand against love?
Because I love this person, right?
Well, because the scripture says, what are you doing?
And here's the thing how can this woman accept Christ?
And so here's the challenge.
You want her to come to believe that Christ is Lord, but your Lord is sex.
That's what you worship.
It's not Christ, it's your penis, right?
And so how on earth is she going to worship the Lord?
And this is the same problem with Josiah's reforms.
You know what they have in the temple?
They have a giant penis.
There's a penis in the holiest of holies.
And there are male prostitutes where dudes go in and have sex with dudes.
And by the way, who's the only person in Israel who knows God and can repeat he reheebrew
a woman huda.
She's like, Guys, this is not what the Lord says.
And they weep and there's reforms and whatever.
And so what I would do is, as a young man, this is difficult.
I can say as an older man, this becomes much more manageable.
But I have worked on it, and I would say this to everyone if you do not work and challenge
your sins, you will not overcome them, they will overcome you.
And so I'm now 52 years old.
I have zero temptation when I'm in a hotel to look at pornography on the TV or on my
phone.
And by the way, there's such freedom to be able to hand my phone to my wife and not be
concerned about her finding anything.
And there was a time where that was not true.
There was a time where I looked at things that I should not have looked at, and I did
things on a computer or on a TV at a hotel room I should not have done.
And that doesn't just include porn.
That includes anything Paul says that stimulates lust.
And so what I want to challenge everybody is let's really talk about that word stimulate,
because.
I think that we beat ourselves up so much.
Look, if you're a guy and you're young, you're going to have sexual desires, and God has
wired you to want to have sex.
It's part of the mechanism God uses to make you cling to a woman to help you want to do
that.
And women struggle.
33% now of all porn uses for women.
So this is a growing issue for women as they are struggling, connecting and finding men,
because our whole woke society is broken and we don't know how to have relationships,
right?
And we've said, marriage doesn't matter.
It matters.
It's huge.
And so what I would say is you just need to draw a heavy boundary right here, and you need
to lead her to Christ.
And I would start with confessing you're a bad example and say, when I have had sex with
you, I have sinned against you.
The Bible says there is no other sin like sexual sin, because all other sins this is what
one Corinthians chapter six says, we commit outside the body, but sex is something that we
do inside the body.
And here's why sex is so important, because it is God's way of blessing us listen to this.
Of an ability to uniquely be like Him and create life.
And create life.
When you have sex, God is allowing you to share in his ability, because sex creates life.
And that's why it's so important.
What I would just say is confess that, create healthy boundaries.
And here's what I've done.
I threw out the word lust and I just started looking, okay, when am I stimulated?
I can become stimulated around a super attractive woman.
That's not my wife.
So what do I do when I'm stimulated the Bible's clear fleet run.
Don't pray about it.
Don't hang around.
Don't talk about it.
Don't share with the woman.
Man, I'm super into you.
Would you pray for me?
I've had Christian friends that literally confess their lust to a woman.
Oh, my goodness.
And that turned her on, and she's like, more into it.
And I was recently sharing with a young person who was battling with she said, well, this
guy knows I'm married.
I'm like, he doesn't care.
When you're stimulated, you don't care.
I tell young men all the time, and your body only has so much blood for your brain or your
penis.
It can go one or two areas.
And when it goes to your penis, it's not in your brain.
So that's why you run from it.
And so create a boundary.
And when you feel stimulated, just say that I feel overstimulated.
That's a very safe word.
I feel overstimulated and I need to go and I need to leave.
And when God was convicting me of this in a young man, I remember I was in a situation
where I was overstimulated, and I just left my date, left her, and I got on her bike and
left my car and rode away because that was the only thing I could do.
So start with that.
Create boundaries.
My son is dating.
I tell him all the time, horizontal ain't holy, so don't get horizontal, because you got
to have a plan.
What are we going to do?
And really focus on two things.
You got the sex part down, so now let's focus on the emotional part and let's focus on the
spiritual part.
So first of all, let's lead her to Christ and praise God.
She's amazing.
My friend Mark Driscoll, when he became a Christian, his wife Grace, he's like, are we not
supposed to be having sex?
And she's like, yeah, I should have told you.
It's my favorite thing.
But he got radically saved, and he's like and he said he's all this sucks.
It does.
Once you've been intimate and not be intimate sucks.
But what you need to do is, when you're not having sex, it makes you focus on the
emotional things, the relational things and the spiritual things.
And those are the things I mean, you're married.
Sex doesn't keep you and Devo together, right?
Sex is such a small part of Tammy and I's life together.
It is so extraordinarily small.
How do we honor one another?
How do we care for one another?
How do I serve her?
How does she serve me?
How do I listen to her?
We have not had a fight about sex in probably 15 years.
We've had plenty of fights about me not listening, me not helping, me not valuing her.
All of the things that you need to be focusing on now, those are the things that matter.
And by the way, guys, if you're struggling in your sex life, in your marriage, work on the
emotional part, work on the spiritual part, work on the service part, work on those
things.
There's a great book.
His needs.
Her needs.
Read that book and just say, how can I serve you in your needs?
And then if you're a wife and you're married oftentimes, not in all instances, but sex is
a huge part of a man's need.
But, you know, Donna, I've counseled women where it's her huge need and the husband is
unwilling.
Yeah.
And I'm looking at these dudes, I'm like, are you kidding?
You got this smoking hot wife, and she wants to have sex with you.
And you're like playing video games.
And oftentimes it's porn, it's anxiety, and they're not dealing with their stuff.
And by the way, guys, you want to ruin your sex drive overeat, look at video games and
don't exercise, and your sex drive just goes boom.
So that's what I would say, is you have to have to do this.
And this is so huge.
I have a good friend of mine at Sandals who's gay, and he gets so frustrated with the
straight people at our church because they're like, oh, I messed up again.
Oh, my gosh.
And I'm just like and his thing was, he said, I don't understand why the church has so
much grace for them.
I said, It's not grace, it's stupidity.
They're going to stand before Jesus, not their fellow moronic Christians.
I said, they and their stupidity are not the standard.
Jesus is.
And I actually was in an argument I shouldn't say I wasn't arguing.
I was being argued at.
I had a relative of mine who just came at me out of nowhere for my stance on gay marriage,
because he's changed.
And he's just coming at me, and I just read to him, first Corinthians, chapter Six.
I said, Those who engage in this, paul says, remember, I said, Paul never speaks about
hell.
Here's what he says.
They will not inherit the kingdom of God, so quit telling a gay person they're going to
hell.
Here's what it says, a person.
And it doesn't, by the way, gay, homosexual, wrong words.
Those who engage in homosexual sex, right?
Because in the ancient world, you were only gay if you received, so Paul says, both the
firm hand and the soft hand who engage in sex.
So what does that mean?
Both the one who does it, who's in the active role, the male role, and for the man who's
in the female role, that's who receives, neither of those who continue voluntarily to do
that will inherit the kingdom of God.
And so we need to understand that.
And so as Christians, though, you got to read that verse.
You know what else it says?
For those who engage in sexual immorality, the gay part is the controversial part.
It's like, listen, straight, straight, buddy.
It's all of it.
Listen what it says.
And then it says, greedy, idolatrous, anger, bitterness.
And here's the thing.
When a believer says, God, you can't have this area of my heart, you know what God says?
Okay, but do you know who inherits the kingdom of God?
Those who've given their whole heart to God.
Whole heart.
And here's what this woman needs to know.
Jesus said, how can you describe the kingdom of God?
It's like a man who found a treasure buried in a field, and what did he do?
Do we have a name for this guy?
Nathaniel.
Nathaniel.
What did he do?
He went and sold all that he had to buy what he found in the field.
And so what you need to show your girlfriend is you have found something in the field
that's good, that is worth everything you have.
And that's what I found.
That's what I found.
I was with a girl that I was having sex with when the Lord called me.
And you know what she said to me?
If you go forward, she said, we're done, Nathaniel.
You know what I said to her?
We're done.
Yeah.
Because I knew, I knew in that moment that my desire for God outweighed my desire for
sexual intimacy in any know, because people say, oh, it's easy because you're married now.
I wasn't married then, and I had a very active, welcoming partner that was like,
literally, she said, Jesus is going to come between us.
And he did.
And if Jesus hasn't come between you and your relationships, then I don't know if he's in
you because he needs to come between.
And so much of the liberal, progressive doctrine is Jesus would never divide or.
Andy Stanley preached a message this week where Jesus never drew lines, he drew circles.
And I love Andy, Stanley.
And I've learned so much from him.
But do you know what a circle is?
A circle is a line in every direction, and you are either in it that's right.
Or outside of know.
Jesus said, I have come to divide families, mother against father, brother against son.
I have come to bring a sword.
That's a line.
And one of the issues where there's a line is with sexual boundaries.
And when we read the Council of Acts, the very first church council that every Christian
everywhere affirms is in Acts 15, what are one of the four things that they say you cannot
do?
That's right.
Sexual immorality.
Let me translate it for you.
Greek sex.
That's what it means.
Don't do what the you know, when in uh uh.
Not for Christians.
Not for Christians.
And so we have to say, okay, if Jesus is in me, he's going to come between me and some
things.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so what that means is I don't look at porn.
And ladies, your bodies look nice.
If I wasn't a Christian, I probably could look at that all day long.
I don't do it.
Why?
Because Jesus has come between me and what I look know.
One time, Tammy was literally she was out of town, she was like, did you look at porn?
I'm like, no.
And I said, do you think I just don't look at it when you're around?
I said, I don't look at it because Jesus is around.
You know, when he's around every day.
All the time, all the time, everywhere.
And that's why Paul says, can Jesus become one with a prostitute?
Absolutely not.
And what he's saying is, what you do with your body, you are forcing Jesus to be a part
of.
And are you thinking about that, Nathaniel?
You don't go to church.
You are the church buddy Christ is in.
Well, I hope he's in you.
And that's not to say that, man, this isn't going to be difficult.
This isn't a struggle, this isn't a battle.
And this is the other thing that just saddened my heart for what Andy shared this last
week from his church.
And I loved a lot of what he said.
And again, I love Andy Stanley, but I disagree with what many of the.
Things going on right now.
Yeah.
He said, so many gay people have asked God to take it away.
Donna, do you know how many sinful thoughts I've asked the Lord to take away?
That's right.
And he said, no.
My power is made perfect in your weakness.
I have to serve God despite my sin, whether he takes it away or not.
I have to obey.
Yeah, I have to obey.
And the other thing that broke my heart about what Andy shared is, do we not serve a God
of miracles?
Is the gospel so weak and so pathetic that it can't change anyone?
That's right.
It changed me.
Changed me.
It changed me.
And Nathaniel, the lord didn't take away my lust, but the lord called me to serve him in
spite of my lust.
That's right.
And so now what I do is I run from things that stimulate know tammy and I will watch a
show.
And here's the thing, donna boobs and naked ladies don't tempt her.
And you know what I told my wife?
I said, I can't watch this.
Yeah, we don't watch it enough.
I can't watch this.
Tammy is completely unstimulated by sex between two people.
It stimulates me.
And I just said, I can't watch this.
I actually did a thing.
We were watching this show.
I tried to go around the corner on the wall, and I could still hear it.
I'm like, still stimulated.
Still stimulated.
And part of that's because of what I exposed myself to at a younger age.
And by the way, if you haven't looked at porn, don't.
I tell my son this all the time.
It will ruin you.
It will wreck you.
And even if the Lord forgives you of it and heals you from it's, it's still a scar.
Yeah, it's still a scar, and you don't want that.
So, nathaniel, I'm sorry if I've been harsh.
I love you.
The lord loves you.
But it sounds like God's working in your girlfriend's heart, so let's let her work there
and let's see what God does.
Because he may bring you together in marriage, but marriage doesn't solve.
So okay, that was like a thousand word answer.
It was really good, though, and I think a lot of people needed to hear that.
Whatever the sin is, we serve God in spite of it and our weakness, we die daily.
Paul says he dies every single day.
And all of us have passions and lusts that we have to submit to Christ.
So very good.
So good.
Thank you for these questions, everybody.
These are amazing.
Thank you for listening to this week's episode.
You can always submit your questions to move, SC, ask, or go to the sandals church app.
And we will see you next time.
Yeah.
Love you guys.
God bless.