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Hosted by Dr. Val Civelli, White Coat Black Sheep explores physiology, functional medicine, and the medical questions most people are told not to ask.
This is where evidence meets curiosity, where dogma gets uncomfortable, and where real world medicine takes priority over headlines.
From understanding your lab work to debunking hormone myths, medication misconceptions, and optimization strategies, this podcast helps you understand what is actually happening inside your body.
If you care about health and think there might be a better way to practice medicine, you’re in the right place.
Welcome to White Coat, Black Sheep, where science gets curious and dogma gets
uncomfortable. I'm Dr. Sevelli. Today, we're talking
physiology, evidence, and real-world medicine, plus the questions you're not
supposed to ask, but probably should.
If you care about health and think there's a better way, welcome to the
show.
Thank you so much for joining me today. So what is your name, and what do you do?
My name is Vinicius Moraes. You can call me Vini because it's easier-
Okay
... for Americans to pronounce.
I love that.
Yeah. So it's Vini.
I've been here for 10 years.
Okay.
But I've been back and forth. I went to college here, went back to Brazil.
Okay. Oh, Brazil.
Went back to-- Yeah. So I went back to fighting.
Okay.
Then from fighting, I went-
What kind of fighting?
I was MMA and jujitsu.
Oh, that's really cool.
That was my way into jujitsu.
Okay.
Brazilian jujitsu, which I was back when I was a kid-
Yeah
... growing up in a neighborhood that was tough and all that.
So then I-
So then you used it as a way to-
Get out of trouble
... really survive. Yeah.
Pretty much. Yeah. Because I used to live in the most dangerous neighborhood in my
town.
Oh my God.
So I grew up like around that.
Wow.
So sports, kind of my mom was mostly responsible too, because
she said, "I don't want you involved with this."
Yeah.
Because she knows I was hanging out with people that I'm not supposed to be hanging
out with.
Yeah.
But she, when I saw sports, she always pushed me to go.
Yeah.
Go. And then jujitsu became something that would take me out of the
trouble most of the day.
Yeah.
So, I would be there for
after school till after dark.
Yeah.
So after dark, I wouldn't stay out, so just go home.
Then I went back, had a chance to come back to the U.S.-
Yes
... for a scholarship, for a football scholarship.
So this was like-
Soccer scholarship
... college. High school?
College.
College. Okay.
College. And then I went to college here. Stayed for 2006 to 2011.
Mm-hmm.
Went back to Brazil in 2012. Stayed there because I was actually homesick too.
I was missing my mom.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Then went back. I was very attached to my
niece at the time, so she
was growing up, and I missed all that.
I was just like, "You know what?"
I hate that. Yeah.
"I'm going to go." I got rid of everything I had. I was in Cleveland, actually.
Okay.
So I was doing college over there.
Okay.
Graduated, and then I went back, tried to make a living over there in Brazil.
Yes.
Which is really tough. It's like when you guys used to live here, you go back over
there, it's a totally different world.
So that's what I did, stayed there focusing on fighting,
and got in the time that I got invited to come here again for
fighting.
Uh-huh.
Got my black belt in 2015.
Wow.
I was doing jujitsu for 15 when I got my black belt.
So I got my black belt, got invited to come. Came, started competing.
Because of competing here all the time.
Yeah.
Started competing here and all that.
Got
among the worlds a few times, and I was focusing on fighting.
And that was very important. And that's a little bit of my
background.
That's really fun. Okay, just by optics, you look cooler than me.
I can already start there.
No.
Yeah.
I know a little bit about the industry, but
it definitely seems like a very healthy channel for whatever you're
coming from-
Mm-hmm
... or whatever you're dealing with.
Mm-hmm.
I think channeling that into a healthy form-
Yeah. Totally
... competitive platform to just
have no excuse to do bad things, right?
It's just like-
There's no time for it
... you can just basically get paid for it.
Right. Yeah, that's the thing about the fighting-
Yeah
... I mean, the mental state. So
growing up poor-
Yeah
... and
when you're fighting,
it gets you in this mindset like, if you can win here-
Mm-hmm
... nothing else can beat you.
Yeah.
So that's how I grew up. So nowadays, I'm a bodybuilder.
I'm not even training jujitsu anymore.
Oh, wow.
I became a bodybuilder after--
I've been a bodybuilder for two years, I would say.
Okay.
For real, about two years.
Yes.
I started training a friend of mine.
Uh-huh.
He was in jujitsu with me, and he say, "I want to
win this specific fight that I lost because I was
weaker."
Yeah.
He's like, "Let's train with me." And then I started going to Power,
and started training over there, and he would start pushing me because the Worlds
was coming in a few months. So he was pushing me every day-
Okay
... training with me. And then I started, I always
liked workout. I always loved-
Yeah
... bodybuilding. I always loved being, I watched Arnold, Columb, all those big
names in the-
Wow
... bodybuilding industry as a kid.
Yeah.
And I was like, "Man, I don't think I can be that." And-
So like 13, 11, what age do you think it really grips you?
Oh, when it got me?
Yeah.
Like 10.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
10, 12, around the same time I was in the fighting industry-
Yeah
... which is not a lot of, at the time it was boxing that was the big thing with
Mike Tyson-
Okay
... and all this like-
Oh, yeah
... so it's like, and then I started looking for bodybuilding as-
Mm-hmm
... something I like to watch because, "Man, I wish I had that body.
I wish I could-"
The muscles.
Yeah, I know.
Because I always wanted to be, when I was a kid, every kid wants to be a
superhero.
Yeah.
So I was like Superman, like this, "Oh my God."
Yeah, my sister's kids like to show me their push-ups and their muscles, and I'm
like, "I didn't ask." But that's cool.
Well, first you see a guy doing, oh, the most, like if I'm going to do this and I
don't have anything, it's embarrassing.
Yeah.
And I was like, "Man, I wish I had that."
You carry like a ding.
Yeah, a little-
A little, yeah
... watch,
like Bugs Bunny when he does that, like ding, next thing.
Yeah, he falls.
Yeah. So that's
how I feel like I can do that.
Yeah.
That's when I would do it. Then I was fighting because I was more time cover up in
the gi and all that.
Mm-hmm.
I was doing good.
That's good.
And then when I start training, I won the Worlds 2021,
and that was funny because there was no points scored.
Right.
Nobody scored a point on me, and I just literally ran over the guys,
and that was like, "Oh my God, I like that." I like how strong I felt.
Yeah.
So first time in my life, I was always insecure about being weaker or be, not
technically, but-
Mm-hmm
... always be weaker than the guy.
Yeah.
Because I know the guys work out and all that, and I wasn't doing much.
Mm-hmm.
But then when I got the bit by the bug-
Yeah
... so to say.
Yeah.
And I was like, after I won the Worlds, I thought about, like, you know what?
I like better, and so and my contract for fighting was over at the time.
Yeah.
And I was like, you know what? Now's the time I have to choose.
Am I going to keep fighting?Or I'm going to do something else.
It was over because like the season or because of rules or-
It was years, like I have five-year-
Okay
... contract with the sponsor-
Oh,
okay
... and then it was expiring that I was like-
Okay
... am I going to
ask to re-sign or-
Yeah
... just going to just move on and do something-
Yeah
... else. And I always had this funny thing about, I'd like to move on into sports.
Yes.
Because from then I went from,
at the same time I was doing jujitsu, I stopped jujitsu and doing bodybuilding, I
started playing ice hockey.
Oh, wow.
So I was like, back then I wanted to learn that.
But that feels slightly like, there's fights in that too, so it kind of translates
nicely, right?
Yeah. And I always loved hockey. So a little understanding,
being in Brazil-
Uh-huh
... is really limited. It's a soccer player.
I've never been.
Yeah.
Soccer.
If you are a soccer player, first thing you get as a gift as a kid is a ball.
Just as a soccer player. And I grew up in that environment.
I played soccer and did all that. It brought me here.
Yeah.
Thankful for soccer.
Yeah.
After I moved here, I said after I'm done with college, I never play a game of
soccer in my life again.
And I was like, "You know what? People invite me to play soccer with them." I was
like, "No, I'm good."
I played soccer in high school.
That s**t is dangerous.
Yeah.
Then I was like, "No, I'm good at soccer."
Yeah.
But then I
went soccer, now all that.
But I was always like, look, I grew up watching Michael Jordan play.
I always like American sports. For some reason, I always love it.
Basketball, even baseball. My first team was the Cleveland Indians.
Mm. Oh, yeah.
I was a fan.
Things like that. We really kind of look to those sports that we don't have
there.
Yeah.
I would be the weird guy with the...
I always
roller skate.
Oh.
So I would be the guy that build the hockey stick with my- ...
with woods and something, play by myself, like, "Dude."
Basically hockey.
"What are you..." Yeah. "We don't even have that here in Brazil.
What are you doing?" It's like, I like the sports of it.
I always liked things like-
Yeah
... from here.
Yeah.
And funny thing, I was born on July 4th.
Oh, that's so fun to know.
Yeah.
Wow.
And then I was watching-
You're basically American.
Yeah, I was a American baby.
But then,
when someone told me I was a kid, and I had a sweatshirt with the American flag-
Uh-huh
... and they say, "You know that?"
And it was my birthday.
Yeah.
And the guy said, "You know that you're American?
Today's American independence day." I was like, "Oh, really?
How is it?" And so I look it up, and there's no internet, none of that.
I was a kid.
Cute.
And I was like, I wanted to go there someday.
So, I manifest that thing in my heads-
That's cool
... like, I wanted to be there someday on my birthday.
Yeah.
And that was funny because later on in life, I was here.
Yeah.
Living here, and I have the American, actually, I have American flag here.
Oh, that's so nice.
Because, which with my college degree.
Oh my gosh.
That's when-
It's very muscular.
Yeah, that's-
It's the American flag with the eagle.
Yeah, with the eagle on, in the gi.
Yeah.
So that's one thing I'm really grateful for America because if it wasn't them, I
wouldn't have a college degree. I'm-
That's amazing
... grateful to being born in Brazil.
Yeah.
All this
anger to be like-
Yes
... to succeed good.
Yeah.
But I'm be here for me is like, that's why I love America so much.
Because that-
That's fantastic
... college I have, the-
Yeah
... opportunities I have, even with bodybuilding too, I have, is America.
Yeah.
You know?
And-
Do you think it's because of how you were raised?
Just, you mentioned poverty, right?
For sure.
So like, coming from a place where you're looking around and you're like, "I just
don't feel like I'm going to go anywhere," or like, "I can't-"
The one is like, you know what's funny? My mom always encouraged me to be better.
Mm-hmm.
There's a song about, the Panic! at the Disco
that says, "High Hopes."
Okay.
So that's my mom,
because every time I choose sports-
Yeah
... over being... She always went, "I want you to be a doctor.
I want you to be a lawyer. I want you to be-"
Overrated.
Yeah. And then I was like, "No, I want to be an athlete."
Yeah.
And then she was like, and that song comes in play where she, that's literally
her concern about me, I'm going to suffer, it going to be hard, it's going to be...
That's literally that. And it's going to, I'm trying to say a funny story about
that when I bodybuilding. But the point is,
and it came to me like, I'd want to be better than, because
when I was born,
my mom had,
I was financially stable.
Mm.
She quit her job and all that to take care of the family because my dad was taking
care of it, and he just literally beyond us, five years old,
left us on the street, and she had to go back to literally sewing
clothes and all that so she could raise us.
So I saw that happening, and we went like totally broke.
Living in a house, living on
our family related people, living on the floor,
and she was always trying to get better and got us a little house.
Wow.
We lived there for a few years, and I was always seeing that, working so hard like
that.
Yeah.
I was like, "You know what? I want to do better for my mom."
Yeah.
"And I want to do..." And then every time I would go outside, she's like, "Don't
get in trouble." I was like, every time, I could,
but then every time I would think about my mom would be so disappointed in me.
And then I just never got in. It was, I've always made a good choice because of
her. And it's funny because one day she told me, she looked me in the eyes, I was
like, I don't remember about how old I was, but she looked at me and I say, "I hope
you never make me cry because you go to jail."
Oh my gosh.
Or you die.
That was powerful. Like, I don't want-
And I literally-
I wouldn't want to let her down
... no. And then when she, I know. And then she
was working day and night-
That's powerful
... to buy us literally food. And at that time,
I would go to school to eat-
Mm-hmm
... because they provide food-
Mm
... public school. So I would go to eat.
Mm-hmm.
I go back home, so I need to have food.
And then my mom would be just cook some flour and water and salt, fry
it, and cup of coffee, go train, and I would train all day, come back, walk.
Oh my gosh.
That's a story that people don't see.
They see this Vini like, "Oh my God, the athlete Vini." But people don't-
They don't see the whole journey
... they don't see the whole journey from the when you started.
They see the glamorous-
They don't see why I'm so competitive.
Yeah.
Because they wasn't there when I was walking from
my practice all day, from when I was being a kid, walking back,
think about I might not have food at home.
Mm-hmm.
I'm so hungry, and I stop by a diner, and I get food from the trash and
literally eat that.
Wow.
That-
Wow
... you know? And people say, "Oh, what?" My mom say, "Don't say that." It's like,
why not? I'm proud of that.
Mm.
Because that food, I remember I was sitting on the
curb. I would get the-The meals that was kind of
folded more-
Yeah
... not as dirty.
Yeah.
I would open and say, "Okay, has some half of hamburger here." I was like, "I'll
get some of it." I'll eat it sitting on the curb and I'll see people
driving the cars out of the parking lot, looking at me, feeling sorry for me, and I
would start crying. I was like, and that got me angry.
I was like, "I'll have a better car than you someday."
I love that.
I hate that.
Yeah.
But at the same time, I didn't feel like I was defeated.
Yeah.
That was the chapter of my life. It's not a book.
You gave me chills. That's such a pivotal moment,
and I feel like you have to experience that low-
Right
... that like, "This is not who I feel like I represent.
This is not me in my era."
That's what I imagine now.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's not what I-
It's f*****g awesome
... Many people from the...
I was living in a bad neighborhood,
so I was hanging out with everybody.
Mm-hmm.
So sometimes I'll hang out with the rich people, and I'd have shoes and have
clothes, and some of them would give me clothes and all that.
Mm-hmm.
But some other ones, they were playing the rich guys-
Mm-hmm
... and the girl, actually girls.
Mm-hmm.
It's like, "Ah, you're living in a shoebox." They always try to put me down because
in sports, I would overcome with soccer and all the sports.
And the way they would put me down because they have more money than me, "Ah, you
live in a shoebox. You don't have shoes to play." They always try to put me down.
I was like, "You know what? I'll have some day." And that's what always fed me,
and still. And so every challenge-
Yeah
... feeds me so-
Yeah
... much for... I've got to... And that's when I went from
jujitsu. I was like, "You know what?
I'm going to do something else." And I focused on bodybuilding.
And
by the time I was starting bodybuilding,
people would laugh at me, like, "It don't help me."
Mm-hmm.
But I was like, and once someone told me-
Mm-hmm
... "Why don't you compete?" I was like, "Nah, I don't think it's going to be..."
Mm-hmm.
"Why?" And then they said, "Oh, this is this."
And people that were actually helping me was like, "Nah, bro, you can get there." I
was like-
Now I have to do it
... I was like, "If you're the person that actually with me say that I cannot do
it, I'm going to prove to you and to everybody else that I can do that." So I
start training really hard and-
Yeah
... and at the same time I was playing hockey.
Yeah.
People, I was in the hockey here in town.
Yeah.
I was playing hockey with the team, and then my teammate was like, "Eh, he's all
right. Let's help him out."
Right.
I start getting better. I hire a coach.
She's
pretty cool. She works at the center.
I don't always remember the name of the ice hockey place here.
Okay.
And I call, her name is Corey, and I ask her, "Hey, can you
train me to be a better skate?" "Yeah, sure." So it was twice a week.
I would go there just training-
Wow
... swerving around, doing stuff so I can control more my body on the skates.
Okay.
The girls got it back.
Is it Bravo Bank? Where do you even... I can't even imagine here.
Now it's...
I don't know the name now, but-
Yeah
... it's right behind-
Please tell.
It's right behind the
children something.
Okay. I'm going to have to look this up.
Yeah.
But it's in Bakersfield.
Yeah, it's Bakersfield.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then I got in the point and my teammate's like, "Whoa, you're getting better.
You're getting better." I said, "Yeah, I know, right?
I got to get better." But I start getting better, they start to stop.
Some of them, they stop helping me.
I was like, "Why?" The same thing happened in jujitsu.
Same thing happened with everything else.
I love that.
Because I wanted to be the... I don't want to be better-
They liked you down there. They liked you when-
I know
... you weren't that good.
Yeah. I don't want to be better than...
That's why I post some videos about it.
I don't want to be better than anybody else.
I wanted to prove that I can be better than me yesterday.
Yes. That's the journey, right?
People don't understand.
They don't. No, I think they just think too small, and it's like they're,
"You're wonderful. You're great.
You're doing so good." There's encouragement until you-
Until you see, "Oh, you're professional."
Yeah.
"You're a little too much."
Dominating.
You're not there yet.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's always like, that's my whole life.
No, funny.
My whole life like that, in every sports.
Yeah.
And I got used to this.
Yeah.
And I expect people, say, I people to help me.
I got in the point that it's kind of getting, I'm not getting better than
them. I pursue more.
Yeah.
And-
Yes
... they start like, "Ugh," and I don't like it.
You put in all the effort, consistency, and diligence,
and you sought out help from people who you knew were more of masters
of that skill set.
Right.
Were they doing that? They could do that.
They can do better because they have the conditions.
Yeah.
I came from having nothing and get something.
Yeah.
If they have something, they can do way more-
Yes
... and then just realize they, that's-
I live for that
... one thing I tell.
I make two circles, one circle, another circle.
I'm here,
and you are here on my circle. You should go over here in your
circle. So people take care of too much of other people's business, and then they
just like-
I draw this exact diagram for a lot of my
clients in my practice.
Yeah.
So I draw a circle.
Mm-hmm.
I'm like, "You are..." I put the person inside, you're inside the circle.
Anybody who's disruptive to your peace or, yeah, they get an arrow on the outside.
Yeah, that's the point. It's funny because people don't realize how
they let people interfere-
Yes
... in their life all the time.
Yeah.
All the time. I'm talking about all the time.
Constantly.
And the most people is the closest one.
Yeah.
Because they have people close to you, they really...
I would say, I love my mom-
Mm-hmm
... the woman of my life, but she was the one that always dragged me down for some
time because she need...
I was a very successful athlete.
Yeah.
She never like, "Ah, you're not a lawyer. You're not a doctor.
You're not a..." When I-
She had like a expect, like a vision for you-
When I came to college here-
... and you didn't live up to
... I came with a family store, because I went to college here from being the
only one in family doing college, full scholarship,
getting sports medicine,
and as an exercise science major. So I was a doctor.
Yeah.
They don't know.
Yeah.
I was the doctor of the family, so like, oh my God, my mom would brag.
"Oh, my son's going to be a doctor." And I was like...
So when I transferred, I went from Siloam Springs, Arkansas-
Okay.
... to-
Randall
... Cleveland, Ohio. Then I went to Cleveland, Ohio.
Then they didn't have sport medicine.
Mm-hmm.
Then I said, "You know what? I'm going to change my major." I have changed my major
because I was transferring schools and all that.
Yeah.
So I want to so I can finish college in play sports.
And then I did. Then I went to sport management, international business.
So I graduated in both.
Nah.
Wow.
That's nah.That my friend from my mom's like, "Ah, okay." I brought her
here so she would see me graduating and all that.
She happy with the situation, how we graduated, but I was not a doctor, dude.
So I totally understand where she-
I relate to you on that
... Yeah. I understand the background because she came from another poor family.
She made it
there, and then her husband put everything down, and she-
Yeah
... when she passed away, she passed away in a place that she was comfortable in
her life.
Yeah.
And I'm happy for that.
That's how I tell people, people
getting involved, and I was talking about the people interfering your dreams
all the time.
Oh, yeah.
No.
Totally.
I had it at home. I still have my sister doing this.
Some
random person come to me say, "I don't think you can do it." It's like, "Dude, my
sister think the same, and she's closer than you." And I proved to her that I can.
So-
Yeah
... your
perspective is not going to be my reality.
You can say-
It's like, "Thank you."
Yeah. Thank you. Bye.
Garbage. Yeah.
Yeah. That's pretty much how my mentality is built.
Yeah.
Built through fire. On the fire of impossible things.
There's a song that I love it.
I love that song already, and I don't even know it.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's surreal.
The name of the song is "Pressure Creates Kings."
I was forged in the fire of impossible things.
Yeah.
I have on my belly here, it says
the word impossible, but you scratch the
end, and it say, "I am possible."
Oh, that's fantastic.
That's what some friend of mine told me, like-
Yeah
... "Bro, you do everything, you do so good.
The word impossible doesn't work for you.
You should say to yourself, 'I am possible.'" I like that.
Yeah.
And I tattoo it here.
God.
Because I really feel like, as I said, I don't try to be better.
I don't try to put anybody down or be better than anybody else.
Yeah.
But I want to be the best.
Yeah. For you.
I focus on myself, the best for me.
Because your heart and soul needs it, and that's the fire that you're born with,
and all those experiences-
Yeah
... where people wanted you to feel less than, you're like, "No.
You just don't know me."
But that's why people ask me sometimes,
I feel some people can really
poke me.
Yeah.
But when I sit down and I realize why I get so stressed
about someone that if I compare with him-
Yeah
... I would see him as a cockroach.
Like what? Yes.
I'm not trying to put people down, but I mean-
No
... accomplishments, bro.
You can't talk to me, like-
Yeah. What are you doing?
I always try to hear things that put me up.
Yeah.
And I heard this thing that is great.
You can't hear advice from people that never built anything.
So true. Because the people, the builders, they're not talking about other people.
No.
They're actually building.
No.
They're too busy.
There's two things in people that talk too much, don't
do nothing.
Yeah.
People, they-
It's true
... do a lot, and they accomplish a lot.
They bring people that has potential close.
People that talk a lot-
Mm-hmm
... they don't do nothing for nobody, but and they want to make the, "Oh, you
should do this. You should do. Why don't you do it?" If that
advice was that good- ... you give it to your
son, you give to your-
Absolutely
... you make your environment better.
Yeah.
That's the same thing.
Yeah.
People that succeed brings people with them to succeed.
Yeah.
And that's how I always believe. I don't have a lot of friends.
I keep a really close-
Yeah. Same
... circle, and-
Yeah
... but I always try
to be,
if you ask me to say, I'll say it.
Mm-hmm.
It's not going to be something you're going to like it, but if you listen, you're
going to take it-
Brutal honesty
... Yeah. And that's the whole point about-
Yeah
... I have people around me that if they tell me something, oh, man, I got to
listen up because he's just like I am. Yeah.
Because you respect that person, that's why they're in your circle.
Totally.
Otherwise, no.
Otherwise,
even though sometimes you're going to run to people that you
trust, they're going to say something you don't like, but-
Yeah
... because it's-
Yeah. It does hurt
... everybody's limited at some point.
Yes.
So his limitation, he don't see you exceeding on that.
So if I say, "But that's your limitation."
Yeah.
Not mine.
Back to my story and all that.
Oh, yeah. I love that.
And that's how I was dreaming my whole life.
Mm-hmm.
And then when I moved here, I literally came with $3,000 to buy a car, sold
everything in Brazil to move here, make a life.
It didn't go as I expected, of course.
And then I had this guy, I would say the name, Justin, he's like,
"Hire me as Rio." I work at Rio for many shifts and for-
That is so cool
... Yeah. And then I was like, try to be a fighter and go competing.
I was doing all over.
Yeah.
And then, eventually I got another guy to help me.
He's a locksmith. He's
invited me to work his business. I worked with his business as a locksmith.
The life got better because locksmith makes good money.
Yeah.
And then it got to the point, and I was like, you know what?
He was the best in town for me. Sorry if it hurts someone.
But after a while, it wasn't
working out as much anymore-
Yeah
... because he was busy there. He lives in Texas, so it wasn't working much.
And I was like, "You know what? I've got to open my own."
And then tried to always grow onto him, and then always a sport
walking with me.
Gotten a point that I won the worlds in 2021 with jiu-jitsu, and I was like, "You
know what?"
That's so-
"I going to go to bodybuild."
Where does that take place? Is that in the US or what country?
All US. All here.
Okay.
All here.
Wow.
Okay, because this is a new world for me, and I want to learn all
the different industries and-
Yeah
... what it looks like to build up to that level.
The level of hits, essentially, that you have to take throughout.
Not people just doubting you, but all the
checkpoints. You
get knocked down. It's the getting back up-
Yeah
... that you respect yourself, and that you really learn that, okay, I have
a skill. I have what it takes to really get there.
Right.
And then there's training involved, and all of that along the way also costs a lot
of money. It costs a lot of energy.
It's insane.
And the day literally has 16 hours, I would
say, because you have to-
Wow.
So the day has 16 hours, so I have to do that in 16 hours.
Oh my gosh.
And it's like-
The actual competition day?
No, I mean the whole life.
Okay.
Life happens in 16 hours. Eight of the hours you're sleeping.
Competition takes
so much discipline on that, that it's hard for you to
co... You work, you train, you sleep, you eat good.
So when you're working and you're eating, sometimes doesn't get in the
same place.
Yeah.
In bodybuilding, you have to eat. My food's like-
Yeah
... morning, they have my foods all ready and everything.
Yes.
Sometimes when I don't want to be like, "Oh, man, I don't have my food today."
No, and then you're ravenous and making poor choices.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then that's how,
for me, the point about, I would say about for the whole life-
Mm-hmm
... is about the discipline that-
Mm-hmm
... that I built through being down, to be-
Through the fire
... back like today. Yes. The discipline was something that I always put it to.
I'll ask someone that I really there.
Mm-hmm.
If I have the chance to reach someone over there.
So you reached out to people who you knew were already where you...
You just already identified, like, "This is where I want to go."
I want to be that guy.
Yes.
If I have the chance to meet that guy, I'm going to ask him-
Yeah
... "How did you get it done?"
So did you reach out to these people?
No. In some competition-
Yes
... I would say I would find their students or something like that.
I would say-
Yeah
... "How did you get that?"
I love this. This is what it looks like.
They say train.
Yeah.
And then when you get good, you train more.
Yeah.
So training-
But first you suck out terrible, and that's okay
... so training is the key.
Yeah.
You're going to train for everything. If you as a doctor, you have to train.
You have to train
to learn till you master it. And that's
the first lesson I had in life.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, "How do I get better at this?" I was white belt in jujitsu.
My coach said, "You get better."
Is that a starter belt?
Yeah.
And then you get better, and then when you
become good-
Yeah
... you got to get a lot better. And that's how my whole life motto is.
Everything I do, I'll have to be, "Okay, I know I'm going to struggle with this."
Yeah.
But the struggle's going to last-
Yeah
... the amount of
effort that I put in.
Yeah.
So the more effort I put it in, less suffer I will have.
Yes.
So that's how I did.
Yeah.
So when I come back to bodybuilding and I was like, "You know what?
I'm going to take a break from jujitsu. I'm going to focus on bodybuilding.
I'm going to train. I'm going to train because I want to do, just train to get
bigger."
Mm-hmm.
Training. Someone like, "Hey, you should compete."
I say, "Yeah, sure." I think then when I realized when...
I first said, "Nah, it's okay. I don't think I can."
Yeah.
But that was bothering my head. Why not? You can.
Why can't you?
That doesn't-
Yeah
... that's what, and I was like, "No."
Yeah.
Let's see how it is, and you start following, you start looking for people.
I was like, "Oh, I can be that."
Yeah.
Because a men's physique is like a shorts.
Yes.
So my back's big. Like- ... well, I just got to grow a little
bit. I can do that.
For the physique competition.
Yeah, men's physique. Yeah.
Yeah.
And I was like, "I'm going to start doing this." Start working hard, hard, hard.
Got someone to help me.
Uh-huh.
Sabi,
good friend of mine.
Love it.
Yeah. It's like
me and him training together. He's a men's physique, too, and then he was like,
"Help me."
Got set up my first show.
Yeah.
Okay. First show will be August 17.
Which category, because I understand-
Men's physique.
Okay, men's physique.
Men's physique.
Oh, so I said it right the first time. Okay. Yeah.
So then I was just like, "You know what I'm going to do?" Then I got into this
really serious about it.
And that's more like a natural look. Is that what how you did now?
Not anymore. Used to be. Used to be like a body,
like a beach body.
Yes, beach body.
Yeah. It's not as much anymore, but-
Okay
... it's getting a little more muscular.
Yeah.
So then I was like, "I better do the first show." I did
my first show.
I did three categories. I did over
35, open,
and novice, I think. I won two of them, and open I got third.
Wow. That's great.
And then I was like, "Wow, that's great third for..." I think it was third or
fourth in open, but open is the main one.
I was like, "Oh my God."
Are there sponsorships that can come from that?
They can come. Now they come more.
Yeah.
But the beginning, no.
Mm-hmm.
You're going to pay a lot.
Mm-hmm.
And then not a lot of athletes going to have sponsors, and it's a hard
industry.
Yeah.
Then I got
start competing again,
competed my second show, and then I qualified to Mr. Olympia in 2024.
Oh, wow.
And then I was like, "You know what?
I qualified for it." "I'm going to train, and I go in."
That's-
So I went to Mr. Olympia, got ninth place.
That's awesome.
And I was like, "Ninth place? I can win this next year." That's
2024. I can win next year. Came right back home.
Train, train.
Yeah.
Focus.
2025 came,
went to my competition,
got fourth.
Wow.
And I was like, "Ah." But the point is that's the situation about
my fourth.
So
my first show,
more than a year ago, the day of my show, I got my first show, first
person I call,
my mom.
She was having a stroke on the phone.
Like an actual stroke?
She was having a stroke on the phone.
She was literally talking like no sense and all that.
I was like, and I look in there like-
Oh my God
... "Oh, it's not doing good." Then I call my sister, and it's a big situation.
Okay. Then she found out she had a stroke.
Then I had my second show,
and I had to, okay, got to keep doing.
Yeah.
And Olympia came, ninth place, and she's already had the stroke.
That was the whole year.
Yeah.
Whole year. I went, and then I could go to-
That's tough
... Brazil in February to see her.
Yeah.
Saw her. Then Olympia's approaching.
August 20, my mom passed away.
Oh.
Yeah.
I am so sorry.
Yeah.
What year was that?
Last year.
Last year. Oh my gosh.
A month before Olympia.
Oh my gosh.
And I had to make a decision.
Yeah.
I went back. I was like, "Am I going to just
focus on this situation or-I'm going to keep training and... No.
My mom would lie to me and she would say, "Don't quit."
Yeah.
I went back,
took her up. I was literally, when she was
laying on her cask-
Yeah
... I was eating my prep.
Literally, because if that's the point, she made a winner.
Because you're serious about it, right? You took yourself seriously.
Totally.
You committed to it, and then you were all in.
That's what it takes.
Yeah, that's what it takes for you-
Yeah
... to try. It's not getting to the success.
Yeah.
Success is a to get a chance to try-
Yes
... you have to be all in or you're going to be-
If you're going to fail something, respect yourself-
I failed trying
... yeah, fail trying, really all in.
Mm-hmm.
I gave it my actual best, and then-
Yeah
... I wasn't good enough. I want to be not good enough in that level.
And then what happened, then
I was prepping, I was doing everything.
We bury her 4:00.
Oh.
I went straight to the gym.
Oh my gosh.
That was the...
Sorry.
No, that's hard.
That was the...
It's hard to talk about.
Yeah, that's huge.
That was the best training of my life.
At the same time, it was the worst,
because I literally zero every machine.
Every machine is zero, and I was so angry that I was like, "I'm going to do
that for her."
So
I came back, and then I kept training and all that, got fourth.
That felt like first for-
Oh my God.
And then that felt like-
That's such a way
... first place for me because I remember getting the medal, and I put her
name right here.
Wow.
So as soon as I got the medal, I saw her name and started crying.
And that's like-
Oh my God
... literally like-
But that year was even harder. You already had hard, and then it just got
harder, and you got stronger.
Mm-hmm.
That's the answer.
And then after that, what I did-
God
... I was like, "You know what?
I got fourth,
but I'm not satisfied."
And my friend say, "Bro, you got to grieve your mom." It's like,
"No, I got to honor my mom." I grieve her every day.
And so
when I'm on the gym, I literally relieving pain, feeling more pain,
if that makes sense.
It does.
So the point is,
after that,
and I told him, "Nothing in life is going to be heavier
and harder than carrying her cask to her grave."
Oh my God.
I tell people,
"She signed my birth certificate.
I signed her
death certificate."
Oh.
She choose my first clothes. I chose her last.
Oh my goodness.
So-
That's powerful
... the show must go on.
Yeah.
Like Freddie Mercury-
It does
... my
biggest artist that I love, Freddie Mercury say-
Yeah
... "The show must go on."
Yeah.
It's going to go.
It's going to go on.
Yeah.
So you can't just sit there and get left.
And then I went right straight back to gym, training, moved back
to Bakersfield. I was living in Long Beach at the time.
So I moved back to Bakersfield, training, training, training, training, training.
A lot of situations because since I moved here, I'm restarting over here.
Yep.
So financially, everything,
things overwhelming-
Yeah
... everything. I paid a lot of stuff for my mom's funeral, so-
Yeah
... it was a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot.
Yeah.
So I got back, and then
being here, keep training, trying to find a sponsor for me to go.
So I decide I'm going to go to Arnold Classic.
And I'm going to win.
That's really cool. Yeah.
And I was training, training. Since Olympia, I was training, training, training.
Yeah.
But I'm putting my head in December, I'm going to go to Arnold Classic.
Yeah.
Kept training, training, training. Didn't have nothing paid.
Everything was, "God's going to provide."
Yeah. It's just... Yep.
I'd say, "If I do whatever I can-
Mm-hmm
... to control that-
Yeah
... God's going to provide."
Yeah.
I just got to believe.
Yeah.
And I did, keep working.
Yep.
Literally, four days before I go,
I got a sponsor to go.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, it was like I was going anyways, but it was
really hard. But then the sponsor came, Flame and Fire, thank you.
And it was like
helping me.
And I went, trained
for a few days there. Well, I think I trained twice over there. Competed.
Yeah.
I won my division, and I won the overall division.
I want to clap, but I don't want to hurt everyone's ears.
So what's funny about the winning is-
Yeah
... and love it. Love it. No, I got what I
wanted to. But you know what? For the first time that I thought my moms
was with me-
What?
Because remember that song I told you about, the "High Hopes"?
Mm-hmm.
When I was going in to be announced as the winner of my division, that song
started playing.
It was organic to play.
Really.
It just happened. I thought, "Oh."
As a Men's Physique, we don't choose the song.
Yeah.
We pick a song. Classic Physique and Open Bodybuilding, they have a
song they perform on.
Right.
As a Men's Physique, you could just walk in and someone,
Lady Gaga, whatever is playing.
That is just so crazy, but it's not crazy.
So many songs to be played.
There's no accidents.
So many
songs in the world to be played.
Yeah.
Your song.
On the most important time of my life at the moment was being played with that
song. I
showed that to my mom years ago because the lyrics is like everything she tells me.
So I got my... And then I go in, and I see like give me
the warming, but at the same time, all everyone was like- ... "Really?
It's my time?" It's like literally I said, "Look." Because some more guys
there.
Yeah.
So I didn't know who was going to win.
You're like, "Is this it for me?"
Yeah, it's like-
Oh my gosh
... song plays, I was like, "Is that a sign?
Am I going to win?" And then they announce me as the winner of the division, and so
I come out,
and they say, "We have the overall now," which is the over-
Yeah
... they call me, and then
right before they announce my name-
... there's a part of the song,
I won't remember the part now,
butMm-mm.
I won't now that it's off of my head.
It's okay. I know you're on the spot in this.
That part of the song played right, and they called that,
and they call my name as a winner.
Oh my gosh.
And at that time, I thought, "She's here."
She is.
Yeah. She is here.
That is just so crazy.
Yeah,
the victory was amazing.
It's almost like your body, and I've had those just strange
moments where I'm like, "This is just my moment to me." It's a message that
I just needed to experience. But then I'm like, my body, I feel
I
think I can't even handle it.
Well, why not? That's the point.
Yeah.
You're already telling yourself you can, so you might be able to.
Yeah. It was like joy and-
And there's a, I don't know who said that, but it says, "If you think you can-
Yeah
... you're right.
If you think you cannot, you're right."
So that's why I never put the not in my anything.
That's good.
If I put it on-
Yeah
... it's going to be it. There's no plan Bs. That's how it's going to be.
Yeah.
All in, plan A. We don't work with plan B.
Mad respect. I so admire all of that, and I love the fire
that drove you to the places that people told you you could
never be at, and that's like-
They still-
Of course
... even now they still say like, "Oh my God, that was blah, blah, blah." It's
like-
Yeah
... sorry.
They're going to hate to hear it.
Sorry, but Arnold Classic and Mr. Olympia are the
biggest competition in the world,
and I already have medals on it. Doesn't matter what division I'm at.
I love that.
You have what? What do you have?
Where's yours?
You have talk.
Yeah.
You talk the talk.
Yeah.
Sorry, I'm here to walk the walk.
Right? Yeah.
That's it. And then that's-
Yeah
... what I tell people. I don't want to be here to be better than that guy.
It's not about them.
It's not about them.
If you're looking that way, then you're not focused.
No, that's about the circle I say.
Yeah.
There's a circle that if I think about doing this because of them, I'm on their
lives.
Yeah. Exactly.
They're never going to be in the same-
Yeah. Decisions are made-
Yeah
... by looking at the goal and just targeting that-
Yeah
... completely.
Every decision I make has a consequence on my life.
Yeah.
I don't put anybody on the line for me.
Right.
That's my choice.
Yeah.
My consequence.
Yes.
That's my choice. We're going to suffer together. No.
I will suffer here, then you come along later.
We suffer together.
No, you come along later.
Oh.
That's
how it's been my whole life pretty much.
And then
one thing I've been stuck for years, and now I became a trainer of the peptides.
Okay.
And then I-
Yeah, Justin just mentioned that.
So, yeah
... I have a company, a peptides company, but barely open.
I have a sponsor.
Okay.
And I have a company now.
Okay.
Just starting, barely starting.
Yeah.
And that's why I say the-
They're life-changing, right?
I love it.
It makes sense.
But I've been using for a
little bit.
Yeah.
And what people don't realize, now that I became a trainer, everybody wants to use
it, but it's been there for so long.
Yeah.
People don't know. Insulin, years, like-
I know
... '69 or something like that.
It's like they're just-
I think more than-
... giving that term-
It's the oldest one
... for people to understand and really put that into a therapy.
Yeah.
That's, I think, correct.
People think a lot of peptides are
steroids, which-
Yes
... which is nothing related-
No
... to.
Right.
So yeah. It's a big taboo. People are still like, "Ah, I don't want to
inject myself." I don't know. Well, that's the way it works.
Well, right.
But I've been doing that challenge now-
Yes
... being a peptides one, but I've been satisfied for years.
Yeah.
And I love that-
They're game changers.
Oh, yeah, totally.
Yeah.
And that's why,
for the Arnold, I use more peptides
than PEDs actually.
Wow.
Which my body respond a lot better.
Okay, so in the industry, you don't say PEDs?
That term does not-
Yeah, PED, I wouldn't say.
Okay.
Yeah.
So that's not peptides.
So you wouldn't use that term for, like, the...
Because I'm-
Steroids.
Oh, PEDs.
Performance-enhancing drugs.
Enhancement drugs.
Yeah.
So that term is only for steroids.
Mostly. Yeah.
Okay.
Peptides is totally, we have-
I'm learning the language.
Yeah. We have peptides on us, so it's just something we built.
Yeah.
It's like it's different from-
Totally agree
... injecting something from outside.
Yes.
So that's what comes up for us.
That area.
Yeah.
Okay.
But yeah, that's the goal. But for me, it's a game changer because I'm
not a big fan of
raw steroids.
Yeah.
But-
Like the classic, very anabolic
... that's what it takes to get where I wanted to be.
Yeah.
But since I put the peptides in,
as I said, that's a game changer.
Yes.
I feel so much better. I feel so-
Much better
... much better.
Yeah.
Where is my, it sleeps with me.
Yeah.
It's like,
love that.
Yeah, it's a game changer.
It is.
It really is fantastic. I love that one as well.
And then I heard the FDA is actually-
I think it's going to progress
... No, they already
approved-
Okay
... BP-
Oh, they did?
Yeah, they did.
Oh, wow.
BP 57.
Let's see.
CJG.
CJC.
Yeah.
There's some, now it's my-
I'll have to look that up someday. That must have just happened.
Yeah, it's going to be more accessible.
Good.
By the end of this year, in nature, so it'll be more pharmaceutical stuff.
Which I don't agree much because sometimes they change a little bit.
Yeah.
But more access means that they want to prove the longevity
part.
Yeah.
So don't expect Redda or other.
But for me, as a peptider,
I would say I research it.
I like that, yeah. Peptider.
I'm not a fan of GLP-1 and 2.
Yeah.
Because if you take-
They make you skinny.
Yeah. No-
They make you muscle
... when it comes to build, you lose body weight.
Yes.
Okay? But body weight means muscle, bone density,
and fat.
Everything, yeah.
So you're going to shrink.
Yes.
You're going to look like a burned candle.
But you're going to be skinny.
Yeah.
Redda,
when it comes to glucagon, which is a different part from the GLP-1 and
2-Glucagon is going to help you to keep your muscles, and you look
healthy.
Yes.
You don't look like a cancer patient or something like that.
And it prevents that drop in energy that people-
And that's the least of what Retta can do.
Yeah.
I can research so much about Retta.
Retta is a brain reset.
Yeah.
Even the organs, like say TB 500 is the one that resets organs and everything.
Not only.
Yeah.
Retta has that component too.
Yeah.
It's going to be more and more.
Right.
I'm a huge fan myself of Retta-
Yeah
... and SOUPP.
Oh.
Okay, so what do you like about that one?
Because it's really, I think, getting a lot more attention, and I've heard people
say-
A lot of people don't know about it.
Yeah.
A lot of people are using it the way that it's not supposed to.
Yeah.
You
have to realize,
SOUPP is going to make your pancreas burn more fat and all
that.
Mm-hmm.
Same thing I read about it in a different way, but it's going to be like a
thermogenic from peptides.
Okay.
We call that cardio pill.
Okay.
SOUPP-
Do you feel, like, more racy, like your heart, like you're exercising?
No, you don't have that problem.
Yeah.
You don't have that, like if you take clenbuterol-
Uh-huh
... it's not going to be hard, right?
Yes, like amphetamine.
It's danger.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not going to get to that point.
Yeah.
But you will feel warm. You'll feel like, "Oh, my God."
Okay. Flush.
Yeah, you're going to be flush. You're going to feel-
It gives you a dilation, like vasodilation.
Yeah, you're going to feel like that.
So people take too much, and then you feel, "Oh, I feel sick." Yeah, you're taking
like- ... you're supposed to take like 250 milligrams max, 500.
You're taking two milligrams.
Yeah.
They don't see a microgram difference-
Yeah
... from microgram to milligrams.
Oh, yeah.
And it's like they take two milligrams when they're supposed to take like 250-
That's what I'm saying
... micrograms.
It's like, yeah.
You're overdosing on something that's in the pump. It's not going to help.
Yeah.
You're wasting money because it's not cheap.
Yeah.
So you're wasting money.
Yeah.
There's a lot of consequences that people, they come talk with me,
it's like, "I can't help you, but you got to listen to me."
Yeah.
Don't be like a bodybuilder. There's three types of
things that bodybuilders do.
Okay, let's hear it.
Let's have a coach, right?
Okay.
Have a coach. The coach is going to say,
"You're going to do this, this, and this."
Okay.
There's a dosage that the bodybuilding do.
There's a dose that the
coach told him to do. And
the dose that he says that he do.
So there's three different things.
So it's, "Oh, I do a little bit."
Yeah.
A little bit means a lot a bit, that he's telling you it's a little bit.
Yeah.
So that's a little thing about, is people doing the same thing with the peptide.
Yeah.
But peptides is something really new-
Mm-hmm
... even for bodybuilding. And if you don't take care of yourself on a point that
you're finishing your prep-
Yeah
... it's going to mess up your whole show.
You're going to look
dense.
Weird.
You're going to look weird there.
Yeah.
You're going to look wet. Wet means it has no definition.
Yes.
You got to be careful.
Yes.
Even for every single sport.
Yeah.
Even for
some people go, "I'm using CJC, ipamorelin before I run." It's like,
why?
It's not pre-workout.
It's not.
It's not going to burn more fat and be-
Right
... also just because you're doing it before.
Yeah.
You have certain time that you have to do it.
Uh-huh.
For example, IGF-1, a lot of people, "Oh, I'm doing IGF-1."
Oh.
You know that you're doing GH,
a part of GH responsible for growth.
Mm-hmm.
And you have a time to do that. So the best time to do,
not
saying how people how to do it or not, but-
Yeah
... it should be at night-
Yeah
... before you go to bed.
Yeah, fasted.
Or maybe in the morning, but I would say at night.
Yeah.
Or after you work out.
Yeah.
Okay. But not before a
run, not for-
That would be strange. I wouldn't even think to do that, and I can't think of any
benefit that-
People think because if you do that before you work out-
Yeah
... or before you run, it's going to produce more.
But you're doing actually the opposite.
When you-
Right
... work out, you're burning more.
Yeah.
So why use a component that going to make you-
You put yourself into more catabolic.
Pretty much.
Yeah.
Because more like, your muscles has to work somehow.
Yeah.
So
let's burn that because,
and you're literally putting water in a cup with a hole.
Yeah.
It's like, well, if you have the money to waste, it's fine.
Yeah.
I would say peptides in the long term- ... it won't kill you.
It actually going to get you longer. But if you have time to waste like that.
Do you like MOD-SR?
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I was just-
In MOD-SR, yeah. That's what you want
... I couldn't find my dose with that.
I felt like, okay, so number one, my first mistake, taking that at night.
And so
Yeah, take it in the morning. You won't sleep if you take at night.
I know. I was just so excited. I didn't want to wait, and I was like, "Ah."
Don't do that.
Oh my God.
No, you don't.
Yeah.
And that's the point. I don't know. It's not thermogenic.
It's not a-
It's an exercise mimetic.
But it does something that makes you feel more, "I
want to do run right now."
Yes. I was so energetic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's why I say take in the morning.
Yeah.
I would ask, yes, as tester, there's people that are, "I'm going to start
peptides."
Yeah.
And I tell them, "Okay. You want to start peptides?
What you want to take?"
What do you want to take?
"What do you want to perform? What do you want to-
Yeah
... be better at?" "I work all day. I need the energy." I say, "Okay.
In the morning, you're going to take some MOD-SR first."
Mm-hmm.
Take for a while.
Mm-hmm.
And the receptors, we don't know because there's not a lot of research about-
Yeah
... about peptides. We don't know how long they last or how long
they'll be in your body to stop working.
From what I've read, it's more like four hours. It's very short.
Yeah. No, I mean, but when you take it-
Yeah
... if you take like for eight weeks-
Yeah
... 10 weeks.
I see. Mm-hmm.
After that, how are your receptors going to be still getting it?
You're doing 10 IUs or something.
Eight weeks, I wouldn't. Eight weeks and you stopped it,
you shouldn't cause any problem.
You definitely shouldn't. No, I mean, not about the stopping, but if you keep doing
it or you're blasting.
Oh, yeah. If you kept-
If you keep blasting-
Yeah
... at some point, it's not going to work anymore.
Yeah.
And that's why if-
Exactly
... people, "I want to do that, but I don't want to stop."
Yeah.
You have to change substance.
Yeah.
You do the MOD-SR for a while.
Exactly right. Yeah.
After that, take a month out.
Yeah.
Take a month out.
Yes.
It's important. People take one month at least out.
Yeah.
Your body needs to leave too. It's not-
Yeah
... your body can... Our body is a perfect machine-
Yes
... but it can get comfortableIf you get something in-
No, it does
... you get something in-
Yeah
... you don't stop, okay, I'm doing.
Yeah.
Just don't do. And then when you don't stop, they go-- And then who knows?
At peptides being new for the society-
Yeah
... one day, in five years, you stop it, and your body don't produce anymore,
you're going to feel right away.
Yeah.
The crash.
That would be the risk if you had to take certain things without any pulse, like
stopping it.
Right.
Yeah.
And then, after MOTS-c, you would say SS31-
Okay
... because the SS31 is more complete than MOTS-c.
Okay.
So I would say, then after, so if you feel like you run, you want to run
on MOTS-c. SS31, you want to fly.
You say, "I think I can fly."
Oh my gosh. I think I would panic.
No, it's not going to get... But you feel like you-
Yeah
... you just went through the day.
Like, I want to do things. I just want to-
You went through the day like...
Huh.
I remember back in the day, I was the same thing, and I would
feel tired. But right now, I feel like I wanted to just keep going and- ...
something else to do there, I want to do it.
See, literally, for me, it was like that.
I've never been a lazy person, but I-
Yeah
... feel the difference. And I always ask people that ask me for help or something
like-
Yeah
... "Let me know how it feels so I know."
Yeah.
And that's-
It sounds like it's overriding that internal resistance that would otherwise like
that, "I'm tired, but I'm going to do it anyway."
Yeah.
Yeah.
It gives it more drive.
Yeah. More drive.
For sure.
Yeah.
For sure. Yeah. But it's a lot of, as every,
not drug, but every substance you take is a consequence for if taken a lot.
Like if you drink a bottle of vodka is-
Totally
... or if you drink a shot-
Yes
... it has consequences for the-
Yeah.
So
less side effects, for sure, but-
Uh-huh
... some people don't like to be in nausea.
Some people don't like to have, you're going to have a headache sometimes.
But that's how, it's not even the peptides problem.
Yeah.
How are you eating?
No, really. Yeah.
How are you sleeping?
Or the blood pressure.
Right, so-
I think blood pressure is like a lot of the-
Elevates
Yeah.
Elevates, yeah. IGF-1 could elevate-
Yeah, your sugar.
And
good thing about Rare and SOPP, they kind of
helps.
Keep it. It's amazing. It's beautiful.
Yeah, it keeps almost the same.
Yeah.
And I saw people that had hypertension-
Mm-hmm
... and they're taking SOPP for a month.
Mm-hmm.
They made a blood test, and for first time in 20
years,
they were even taking meds, and they were still a little high.
Yeah.
Took a SOPP because they want to lose weight.
Has to do a lot of losing weight, too.
Do you call that one SLOP? I think I've heard it called-
I've always SLOP, SOPP.
Yeah. Yeah, SLOP.
Yeah. And then after a month, he was like literally
124/80. It's that.
That's fantastic.
It's like, I don't have that since I was in-
Wow
... like middle school. Like-
Geez
... and he's a hypertensive
patient.
Yeah.
And I was like, "That's how amazing SOPP is." I think the two
peptides that's going to take-
Hmm
... the industry a lot.
Yes.
Rare and SOPP. People are going to have to find out more about like, I'm a
huge advocate for SOPP because I've been taking, because
I love it. Besides for you're going to lose weight.
I forget, but isn't that like a growth hormone analog?
I for- Or what was the first-
SOPP is the, I don't know, right now, in my top of my head, I don't know anything.
Feel like, it's okay. I'll actually... I'm going to look right now.
Okay.
Yeah.
And but yeah. SOPP,
for me, it's the
game changer on even the cardio. If you want to do cardio, I hate cardio.
Was close.
I'm going to-
Right, I know. Me too.
And then, but I want to do cardio with the SOPP.
I'm like, "Oh, it's been, oh, it's been 40 minutes?
Oh, good, almost done."
SLOP molecule, this one I feel like
I never really got into. It doesn't get in the medical side of things.
Right.
It doesn't come up as much. But
yeah, there's just really awesome things that I'm hearing back from
people in the industry.
No, SOPP has a good thing about nobody has
evidence of side effects or some bad stuff going on in it, like Rare.
Oh, exercise mimetic. Okay.
Okay, looks like-
Oh, I couldn't tell. No, I'm sorry. I couldn't tell if you're taking a break.
Oh, no, I was looking up SLOP.
It's okay.
Sarah's here to grab your phone. She's-
Okay. Here you go. It's okay, we're living real life.
It is.
You guys get to enjoy this. This is just a-
Is that her?
... part of the fun.
It's a call.
Yeah. It's a real talk.
It's a real lifestyle.
We act-- I actually have a job.
Yeah. My nurse, Sarah, she's actually got to answer my phone because I'm not
looking at it really.
That's good.
So yeah, exercise mimetic, that makes sense, and that's probably why you're saying
like you feel like you fly with-
Oh, yeah
... SLOP, and then the lesser version of that would be-
Of that MOTS-c and then-
Yeah
... SS31.
Okay.
Two of them. Yeah. They're-
Okay
... similar, but then the SS31 I would say is more,
I don't like to say complete because they're both pretty good.
Uh-huh.
But I would say they both overcome any ID-
Okay
... tops. Like-
Man
... the ID is great.
Yeah.
So people that start, even my girl, Laura. Hi.
So-
Hi, Laura
... she
start taking any ID.
Mm-hmm.
And so she don't like much injection and all this.
No.
Started with any ID because she works a lot.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, "Take any ID, let's see how it goes."
You're saying NAD?
NAD.
Okay.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
NAD+.
Yeah.
And then
she start taking that.
Uh-huh.
She feel better, better, better. I say, "Okay, let's go." Right now-
Yeah
... she ran out. I was, she was the one who take it.
Yeah.
Now take the... Now you can go for, I was taking SS31.
Mm-hmm.
Take SS31. She didn't realize, but she was like, she's already-
... high-functioning person. She works.
She's a school teacher for-
That's cool
... an esthetician. She-
Yeah
...
all over the place.
Yeah.
She opened her own business now. It's her place. She was working at home.
Yeah.
And so she's
a lot multitasking.
That's fantastic.
Multitasks.
And it's not like it's euphoric. It's not like your mental state is
altered. It's just you have
real energy.
But that's what people don't realize.
Your mitochondria.
They think, "Oh, you're going to take a Red Bull, and it's going to make me hyper
for a few hours." It's not about that part of the chemistry-
Yeah
... it's about how your mitochondria-
Yeah
... works.
Yeah. It puts out more energy.
Let's say you have five mitochondrions.
Mm-hmm.
Of course, you have way more, but you have five.
Mm-hmm.
And you haveAnd the age hits, you don't
have less, but they work less.
Mm-hmm.
Now you will live a life with the 30 plus.
Mm-hmm.
With three molecules of-- You had five. Those barely work.
Sometimes they glitch and work some.
Yes.
And they go, "Oh, I feel good today.
Oh, they're very tired."
Yes.
But you have three that are actually fully working, for two-
Yes
... that's not working as much anymore.
Right.
When you take any of them-
Yeah
...
you're going to be, "Oh, wake up."
Yes.
"Wake up." And some of the peptides are going to take a molecule for this-
Yeah
... put it on this-
Mm-hmm
... because they know this one's already
broke, so let's put on this one. They come back-
Mm-hmm
... and at the same time, some of them multiply.
So you have-
Yeah
... instead of five, have 10.
Yeah.
It makes your body
being encouraged to produce. That's why the longevity comes.
Yeah.
The GHK-Cu.
Yeah.
When, "Oh, my skin looks better." Yeah, because you're actually getting a lot
better because-
Yeah
... it makes your molecules in your face, your collagen, and everything
works-
Yeah
... better because it
wasn't ready for that anymore.
Yeah.
Everybody. You hit the 30 plus-
Yes
... it's a downhill.
Yeah. And it takes more NAD to do
the same performance, the same functions that you used to do.
Oh, yeah.
Now, if you think of it as money, which I think of NAD as money, I'm
spending more because now it costs more because I need more medicines or something.
Right.
So it's just like you're using more NAD for every single thing that you always
did, but now it takes more.
It takes more.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Pretty much. So that's why people have this taboo about,
"I don't want to inject myself because I'm doing
illegal stuff." It's not illegal.
Your body have that.
Yes.
So you're just encouraging your body to produce more of that.
Yeah. Well, the mitochondria, I feel like I'm obsessed with
them. I think they're-
I love it.
Right?
That's why they call it the perfect machine.
That is the perfect machine.
Oh my God.
That is life.
People don't realize about like, "Oh, I have to sweat to lose weight." No.
You have to make your mitochondria work faster-
That's insane
... so you lose weight.
Yeah.
That's why people have this misconsumption.
I'm going to run with a big hoodie and I'm going to put a trash bag in, and I'm
going to run, I'm going to sweat, then you're going to drink water, you're going to
come back everything.
Yeah.
Dehydration-
Yes
... is different from fat burning.
Yes.
So that's why people misconsumption all that.
Yes.
That's what I love about the fitness area, the fitness-
Me too
... industry and even for fighting for every fitness industry.
Yeah.
And a lot changed.
Mm-hmm.
Because that's back in the day. Like, "Oh, I'm going to put a hoodie on with a
trash bag-
Oh, yeah
... and I'm going to run for hours. I'm going to put a, in Bakersfield-
Yeah
... do 110. I'm going to put a-
Oh
... beanie on and I'm going to run outside," because they almost die doing it.
And then they go to scale like, "Oh, I lost five pounds." Good.
Then they go to drink water, and they're like, "Oh, my God."
Now it's back. Yeah.
"I have seven. How?" It's like-
Right
... no, you just lost one.
So the core concept, the foundation, is just wrong.
Yeah.
So we're learning stupid.
If you think about evolution-
Yeah
... as a human being-
Yeah
... we've been evolutioning so much through the
decades, centuries-
Yes
... we can get better.
Yes.
That's why you can, in 2026, you can put in your
head, "That's how I am, and I can't do it." Believe me,
you can. You just have to do a little research and study.
You have to put your
time,
which you-
Yeah
... believe me, everybody has 10 minutes in their day.
Oh, yeah.
"I'm really busy." I'm like, "No."
No.
You have 10 minutes in your day-
Yes
... to do whatever. "I'm so stressed out." Take 10 minutes to meditate.
Yeah.
"I
don't
have time to talk with my daughter." You can
get your phone when you're driving-
Yeah
... hands-free.
Yeah.
Talk to your daughter.
Yeah.
You can-
Exactly
... or she can come. There is a way to do it.
Yes.
It's like, are you wanting to do it?
Yeah.
Or you want to make excuse to not do it?
You have to want it. You have to want everything that you're actually-
It's about want
... getting in life. You have to really want it.
Yeah, but that's how I would say the quote for life is.
Yeah.
If you want it, you'll make it.
Yes.
Failure
is part of the process. If you try to be perfect, we're living in
a world that everybody lives in a scale of 1
to 10-
Yeah
... of bad and greatness.
Everybody lives on a five and six. Five and six? Oh, yeah, five and six.
Mediocre.
Yeah. Work there. I work in morning, do that.
Yeah.
That's my life. In the old days, I would say
you were born,
you raise, you have a family, and you die. That's it.
That's it.
That's what they live to it.
Yeah.
There's a lot of things-
Which there's nothing wrong with that-
By the day you live
... if you're happy, right?
Yeah, but people living miserable lives.
Yeah.
But when they
grow up,
as I see being here,
people got after high school-
Mm-hmm
... they are stars in high school.
Yeah.
After that, their life is done. It's over, because they frustrated.
Yeah.
They want that hype again.
Yeah.
What did you do to become better after that?
Yeah.
I see that a lot because in college, I saw a lot of high school
stars-
Yeah
... playing sports.
Yes.
And they wasn't that good as a high school, of course, as the levels of way, it's
like you're playing college and you go to NBA.
Yeah.
That's why I
love basketball. When I grew up in the best era.
Yeah.
Feels like Dennis Rodman-
... Jordan, and all those guys.
If you think about life as a basketball game, why
I say that,
you're going to have a lot of people watching,
but if you make a mistake, there's no time for you to like, "Hmm." Bro,
if you miss it, someone got the ball and going to score on you.
So you got to go back to defense. That's how it is.
I love it.
That's how life is pretty much like a-- And if everybody's going to be watching,
and if you miss it, everybody going to boo you.
If you recover, they're going to-
Set you up
... clap again.
Yeah. Exactly.
But if you don't do anything, they're going to put you down.
I love it.
That's how most of the sports, but I think basketball is a more like-
Yeah
... right back at it. If you miss the
basket-
Yeah
... the
offense guy's going to be right at it.
If you don't make defense, you're not doing your job.
Well, I think that's a good place to leave it.
Thank you so much for-
Yeah
... your time. It was an absolute pleasure.
I tremendously respect you.
Thank you.
And let's do it again sometime.
Yeah, of course.
Talk about peptides and life and-
Let's talk about it
... you guys, the bounce back is where it's at. All right. Thanks.