Empower Apps

For the 150th episode, Leo talks about his travels to Deep Dish Swift and Swift Heroes, his experience speaking at Swift Heroes, his thoughts on 32 talks, and what concerns he heard from other developers overall and concerning WWDC 2023.

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What is Empower Apps?

An exploration of Apple business news and technology. We talk about how businesses can use new technology to empower their business and employees, from Leo Dion, founder of BrightDigit.

Hey everybody.

I don't know if you heard, but
I've been traveling a lot lately.

I just got back from two conferences,
two Swift conferences, and I thought

I would take this opportunity to kinda
let you know how that went how my

experience traveling around the world.

Hearing about the joys of Swift
and just how the adventure

went for today's episode.

Episode 150, I can't
believe I made it that far.

I don't know if you know this.

I went to two conferences actually.

Drove with my wife and three
of the kids to Chicago.

Spent the weekend there going
to the Art Institute and to

go to the wonderful Brazilian
Steakhouse, Foggo de Chow, and.

And brush and teahouse.

We did that too.

That was our Saturday.

And then Sunday I went to the
first day of Deep Dish Swift.

I was really happy to take
the opportunity to go to

Deep Dish Swift this year.

I remember Josh coming up with the idea.

At the tail end of 360 iDev
especially since 360, iDev was no

more, it was really unfortunate
and really enjoyed the conference.

And Josh wanted to bring something
like that to his hometown of Chicago.

We all thought it was just a dream
but that dream became reality.

If you watched our episode from,
or two episodes ago in episode

148 when Josh was on talking about
deep dish So I was super happy.

I loved to, I wanted to talk.

I filled out a few CFPs.

Unfortunately that wasn't the case.

Fortunately, and unfortunately
that wasn't the case.

We'll, as we'll talk about
but yeah, I went to Deep Dish.

First day was indie talks,
which was really good.

I'm gonna give a summary of each
of the talks later in the episode.

But it was just fun to
see the great crowd there.

A lot of people I haven't
even seen in person before.

A lot of people I have
seen in person before.

It was at a wonderful venue.

Just great service.

Josh, Kari and Susanna.

Dude, a great job with
the event was fantastic.

And then Wednesday or Tuesday?

Tuesday cuz it was, Sunday was
indie talks when Monday was Swift.

Monday and Tuesday were Swift
development talks, iOS development

talks, and then Tuesday I took a
shuttle from the conference hotel and

flew to from Chicago to Copenhagen
and then connected Copenhagen to Milan

and then took a bus Milan to to get
ready for Swift Heroes at Terrain.


I've actually I was actually chosen to
speak at Swift Heroes, which is awesome.

This is actually the second time
I've spoken at Swift Heroes.

I've spoken at Swift Heroes before
during the apocalypse, so obviously

I did it from here at my house.

I don't think it was recorded.

I'm not sure if it was recorded,
but yeah, I'm trying to think

what was the talk if it was.

I'll look it up.

I'll post a link to it here, whatever.

But yeah, tur.

Thursday set of talks.

My talk was on Friday.

It was at the automobile museum
in Tern, which was very cool.

I got to meet a lot of folks that
I have not met before, honestly.

Mostly folks that are from
the other side of the ocean.

It was just really cool to see a lot
of the folks there, Martin, Donnie

I'm trying to even remember Peter.

You'll see pictures later, Leah Shai.

But yeah.

And then Thursday night yeah,
Thursday and then Friday I spoke.

I think I did pretty good.

I don't know people came up to me.

I wish I had more time for q and a,
but people did come up to me later with

questions and answers, so that was good.

I, it was a talk I've
been wanting to do.

I have a set of talks that I
submit for every conference.

I try to send 'em all, sorry,
conference org organizers.

But sometimes they, they cap 'em and
for good reason and that was the one

that was accepted by Swift Heroes.

And I think what I, why I find that
talk so important is when we come

at Swift, I touched on this in the
episode with Stewart, but when we

come to Swift, we come with our
own notions of how things work.


For instance, I know when I was
a C Sharp developer, I came at

it with preconceptions from.

Doing c plus templates.

And with Swift, I came at it
with my pre, my, my notions

from C Sharp about generics.

It makes sense, right?

That I that I think a lot of Swift
developers, when they get into it,

they get confused by what what.

They expect from how
generics work in Swift.

And so like my talk was to
address that and say, Hey,

come in it at a blank slate.

Here's why.

The things that don't work the way
you think they do here is why there's

some of this new stuff we have with
some and any and primary associated

types, which I think is a big part
of the puzzle that like fills in

a lot of the blanks that we've had
over the years about generics and.

I think that the point of my talk is
to show how using these things, it was

actually helpful for unit testing and
allowing you to lock and I think unit

testing is a big thing that needs to
be, a little bit more motivated, and

what I did is I said, Hey, use generics.

If you use generics and protocols
more in associated types, you'll

be able to do unit test more.

So yeah, I think it went pretty good.

There's some really good talks.

We'll get into that.

We'll get into that.

Just chill for a minute.

So conference was over and
then I spent Saturday going

around a big history buff.

There's like the Italian Museum
of, or the Museum of Italian

National Unity about the
formation of the Italian nation.

And all that.

I got to see a wonderful book,
Garibaldi versus the Zombies.

So that's great.

Yeah, that was a really
cool, I'm a history officer.

That was a really cool museum.

And then we did the tour, I did
that with Ukai one of the, my fellow

speakers of one of the castles that
are nearby that kind of had been built

and expanded out from the Roman days.

Then I took the high speed train
to Milan, I flew in from Milan.

I was gonna fly out from Milan.

I figured I'd spend two days on Milan.

So like Saturday, I took the high
speed train, which was awesome.

Took me an hour, half the time that
the bus took to get me from the

airport to my place and turn in.

And then Saturday, pretty much chilled.

A wonderful Italian food gelato.



Its amazing.

The pizza was really good too.

Sorry Josh.

The pizza was really good in Italy.

It's not the same thing,
but it was really good.

Sunday went to the church, the duomo,
which was really beautiful, the art

gallery, the Leonardo Museum, and
just chilled the rest of day Sunday.

I was pretty wiped out by that day.

Jet Lake wasn't really too bad because I
arrived at night in Italy and so like I

could just go to sleep when I got there.

And then flew outta Milan to
Copenhagen and Copenhagen to Chicago

and then flew Chicago here back to
Lansing which I adjusted to pretty

well cuz I arrived at nighttime.

So it's a little bit weird to
have a day that's, 28 hours and

another day that's 20 hours because
of the time zone difference.

But it all worked out.

Would I do it again?

Yeah, I'd do it again.

It was awesome.

Italy is awesome.

Deep Dish was awesome.

Swift Heroes was awesome.

I dunno if I'd go to Swift Heroes
as an attendee, but maybe if

I could figure out a way to,
to take the family to Italy.

We'll see.

But both conferences were
fantastic and it was just

awesome to have a conference.

In the area and it's like deep
dish and it's just a wonderful

opportunity to speak at Swift Heroes.

I think me and Adam were the
only North Americans there.

I don't, can't think.

Who else?

No, I think that's it.

Yeah, what a fantastic opportunity.

Thank you Swift Heroes
for inviting me to speak.

It was a fantastic experience.

I hope to do it again.

So now I want to take the opportunity
to give you my quick summary on each

of the talks that I had attended.

So now all the talks are here
cuz some talks I didn't attend.

My apologies.

There were two tracks at Swift
Hero, so that was actually

impossible for me to do.

But this is, Quick summary of all the
32 talks I attended over the week.

Let's see how long this takes me to go.

You ready?

All right, let's go.

First talk at Deep Dish.

Indie dev talk, working
title with Malan and Kai.

It was the first time I met Kai,
cuz we haven't had him on the show.

I thought it was really interesting
how they found their target audience

for her orbit and Mercury and how
that the story was not a linear story

where they just got what they wanted.

And they knew their audience
ahead of time, but rather

something that they discovered
over time, which I really like.

Malin, obviously, they make a
great pair and a great job they did

presenting and telling their story
and sometimes how luck is involved

in finding success with their app.

They've done a great job.

Their app is always featured in the app
store and featured at the Apple Store.

And it just goes to show you it
involves luck, but that doesn't mean

that there's nothing to do about that.

It means you just need to increase your
chances by building more opportunity.

And they did a great job.

Subs 3 0 1 with Curtis Herbert.

I've met Curtis before.

I've heard 'em talk before and
I remember hearing him speak.

I told him this at release notes 2017.

And so I loved hearing the story of
slopes once again, five years or.

Six years later and just hearing how
much wisdom Curtis has built up in

those years with slopes and learning
more about subscriptions and how he's

really like evolved on his use of
subscriptions, how they work and things

like that, and just understanding
what his audience of skiers really

want from an apple like that.

He really brings some practical
advice for Indy's along with

his years of experience.

So I really loved his talk.

Build fast, ship faster.

Ci cd for indies with
Rudrank Riyam was awesome.

I'm a big fan of ci, cd, and Rudrank
always does a great job explaining great

detail, the work involved in sending
it up, but also why you should do it.

I'm really glad to see this at Deep
Dish and so I, I love that talk.

Going full indie from side
project to best job you've ever

had by Emmanuel Crouvisier.

If you remember from my indie series
last year he was brought up quite a bit

and it was just great to see the legend.

And I loved his talk.

It was just so much practical advice
about being an indie and just I

took notes of different links and
different things I should be using

for my apps and he had so many
great tools and just practical

knowledge for building an indie app.

I loved it.

I was amazed by his presentation
and the practical knowledge that

he brought to indie developers.

It's not the app store, it's
you app store optimization

for indies with Ariel Micelli.

I dunno how many times I've
heard Ariel speak about aso.

And he has spoken.

I've probably heard him
speak more than any other.

Person in this sphere.

And obviously we've had him on
twice and he really knows his

stuff obviously when it comes
to ASO being running ad figures.

And I really love to hear him
give a review of different

apps and talk about the other
importance of titles, subtitles,

keywords, and that's what he did.

He did kinda like a live
demo of different apps.

I gave them heart twitch to to let me
know about yeah, Ariel knows his stuff.

We'll see.

Be on the lookout.

There might be there might be
something in the near future

we might hook up with Ariel.

So be on the lookout for that.

So the next day it was just,
More stand standard talks.

And we got Peter Steinberger
of formerly of PSPDFKit I

should say, who gave his story.


It was amazing.

I think Peter has been doing this
for a long time and just to hear the

story of him becoming a success but
not turning out the way that he wanted

it to and some of the cost of that
success, his talk was really heartfelt.

And it was beautiful.

It was wonderful.

I just, I think people don't think
about what happens when they're actually

successful, and I think we got some
good insights from Peter about what

are some things to avoid when you're
in that struggle and what to do.

Beautiful talk.

Thank you so much, Peter,
for sharing that with us.

Algorithms where no developer
wants to go with Daniella Vaan.

We've had Daniella on coffee the
coffee chats episode, and I thought she

really brought some practical knowledge
to the table especially some of the

functional programming tools that she
showed to show various optimizations

that we can all make with our code.

I think a lot of developers
aren't aware of that.

Like the way she did maps and
compact maps and filters and stuff.

It was a great talk.

I hope a lot of developers take that
stuff to heart cuz it's very useful for

both main maintenance and optimization.

Modular architecture with Swift,
with Ben Scheirman, Ben does

NSScreenCast, but he's probably
more famous for the best tool on

the internet NSDateFormatter.com.

But if you have never been there
it's, you need to know, you need

to get that bookmark please.

And as y'all know, I'm a big fan
of modularization and breaking

your programs into smaller pieces.

But to hear Ben break it
down was really fantastic.

I've done that.

Talk about the future of The
future of dependency management.

As you may have heard and Ben, of
course does a better job than me and

really brings a lot of experience in
breaking down the differences between

submodules, coco pods and packages
in a really clear and succinct way,

but also why you should be doing it
and breaking your application down.

Yeah, Ben and I had a lot to talk
about that was a fantastic talk.

Thank you so much, Ben.

What is mentorship and why you're ready
to be a mentor with Via Fairchild?

I've followed Via on Twitter and
to finally meet her was awesome.

I think that there is a lot of
great talks at these conferences

from experienced developers, but to
get a talk from somebody who brings

a new perspective and is fairly
recent, I think was fantastic.

I think a lot of us cradle programmers
who went to college and got a computer

science degree and didn't like, I have
no experience in any other industry.

We don't realize how lucky
we are and sometimes how

unwelcoming we can make it.

I know it's even unwelcoming sometimes
to those of us who are experienced.

But it was really great to meet her,
hear her story hear her struggles

in becoming successful software
developer, but then taking that

experience and showing how we,
those of us who are more experienced

can be better mentors for the.

Those of us who want to
get into the industry.

So thank you so much via

unlocking the power of Swift
Playgrounds, creating engaging,

learning experiences with Mark Aupont.

I really interested in Propel
Playgrounds, but really got me

interested as a father for African
American children, is his work

with historical black universities.

I definitely was talking to him
about that after his talk and

the work that he does there.

His jobby job obviously is it's Nike
or Nike sneakers, one of those apps.


That was really inspiring.

And then the stuff about playgrounds,
I really want to get into

playgrounds, but he showed that
there was so much potential to them.

And I think we as communicators,
content writers, we have barely

touched the surface of them.

But I also don't know
what the limitations are.

And I really appreciated
Mark's talk for, expanding my

horizons when it comes to that.

And what playgrounds can
offer as a teaching tool.

So yeah, that was awesome.

Make porting custom SwiftUI design
elements easy with Swift packages.

With Vu i Nguyen.

I always enjoy Vu v's.

A great presenter.

I've known her for years from
360iDev, and I think that there.

Is a lot of potential for content out
there about how to break down SwiftUI

design elements into Swift packages.

We're gonna, there's
a few talks like this.

I think I'm.

After I do this, I might talk
about overall trends that I've

noticed, and she did a really great
job showing how Swift I can be

modularized into separate packages
and delivered and things like that.

There's just, there's a lot there I
think, when it comes to that stuff.

So I really appreciated Avu giving
that observation about resource

management and all that kind of stuff.

So thank you, VU.

My Nav Stack brings all the boys
to the yard with Tunde Adegoroye.

I wanna talk about this more
later, but The NavStack stuff.

Navigation is still, I think,
a puzzle to a lot of pieces and

this talk needed to be given.

He did a really great job showing
how to use NavStacks and how to

do the routing stuff with Enums.

I needed that tutorial,
so it was really great.

I think that you should subscribe to
his channel, like right now and watch

his whole entire series on the nav
stock stuff because it's so important.

I'm gonna talk more about NavStacks
later cause I have some thoughts.

But this was probably one of
the better technical talks that

I went to this year of the 32.

So thank you for doing that talk.


Now you gotta come on the show.

You have to especially after they
reveal a whole new API to do it in June.

So look out for that episode.

Server-Side Swift and GraphQL:
A match made in Heaven or

hell with Ellen Shapiro.

Ellen, who's a fantastic
presenter, extremely smart.

And I think I was the target audience
for this talk because I'm probably

one of the few people who are more
familiar with Vapor than I am with

GraphQL, and I know what GraphQL is.

We did that episode with Kristaps a
couple of years ago, a few years ago.

I don't even know.

And I know I, I hear a lot
of people praise GraphQL.

I'm not a hundred percent on board,
but I can definitely see as somebody

who's tried to employ open API and
things like that, that there's gotta

be a better alternative out there.

And so I was really excited
to hear her talk about this.

I know she's done a lot of
work with the folks at Apollo.

Not Christian Selig's Apollo,
the Apollo for GraphQL.

And her tutorial was awesome.

Obviously I know how to set a
Vapor up pretty quickly, but her

kind of giving me the look the how
fluent fits in, which is the orm

for vapor and things like that.


Really picked my Interesting, no,
like trying out GraphQL as something

that I can host through Vapor.

So yeah, this was a really good talk.

It actually peaked my
interest in that sense.

I think it accomplished
what it wanted to

DeckUI coding your next presentation
in Swift with Josh Holtz.

I'm not specifically interested
in DeckUI I'm still, right now,

I'm, Consigned to using Keynote.

I really loved seeing josh Holtz
explains the Swift DSL and the

scaffolding behind SwiftUI can be used.

And like I'm a nurse in the
Swift DSL stuff and how it

could be used for other things.

I've played around like terminal
building, a terminal using the Swift dl.

I think you demoed that too.

And to see it being used for
building slides is really cool.

I really like that.

If you're looking for a Swifty way
to present and don't really like

complicated Gooeys, then I think you
should definitely check out this talk.

I think if you're interested in
how Swift DSL works, that is being

able to create a language in Swift,
similar to how SwiftUI works,

definitely check this talk out.

I really appreciated it.

Live activities and Dynamic island
made simple with Vince Davis.

So besides Widget, I really
haven't dabbled yet into the live

activities prior to my early, cuz
I don't have an iPhone 14 Pro.

I just haven't had the
opportunity to do it.

Widget is about as close as I can get to
that and I think Vince did a great job.

He had lost his saved keynote file
before the, he was gonna present.

So he did it all through live demo,
which is fantastic and awesome.

And I think he did a really good
job explaining how it works.

Yeah, he definitely knows this stuff
when it comes to live activities.

Ped my interest, it was really
great and to see it working

live coding demos is so hard.

I'm not that brave.

13 Tips to Write Code like a Swifty
with Mikaela Caron we all know Mikaela.

Mikaela is a great presenter.

She obviously does a lot
of work here on YouTube.

And I think this is a talk that needed
to be given because there's a lot of

people who don't know the ground rules
of coding style when it comes to Swift,

and I really appreciated her doing that.

Just explaining here, so you
should name your variables here.

So you should name your
classes and types and things

and how to get restarted.

This is a great, this is just
a really great refresher.

She gave a really great overview and why
it's so important to be consistent with

these rules and yeah, it was really good

documenting your project with Doc C
with Simon b Starving Simon's Great.

And to have another
doxy talk is wonderful.

I think that he brought.

He explained a lot of things
that people didn't know about

what doxy can and can't do.

The versioning stuff that we talked
about with Dave and Sven in our

episode earlier this year the fact that
they can do that is pretty awesome.

This is a really good talk.

If you haven't started dabbling
into Doxy, you should definitely

start doing that soon.

Machine learning and Swift Practical,
trendy are both with Ben Prothi.

I met Ben at 360 iDev.

If you don't know Ben's
senior in high school.



Pretty smart.

And it was really great to see him again
and to present on machine learning.

There's been so much talk about ai.

And to see it, how it fits in the
Swift world and what it actually

means, why python's so popular?

What does Swift bring to the table?

What's the story of Swift and ML?

What's create ml?

Just explaining all that stuff
and the relationship I thought

was really helpful in this talk.

I liked it.

I really appreciated it and just
being exposed to that tool set

Closing keynote with Paul Hudson.

So Mr.

Hacking Swift, I actually met
in Canada a few years ago and

he was an awesome speaker and
he's an awesome speaker here.

It was, Josh did a really
good job picking the right

speaker to end his conference.

The, he did a really, his talks
tend to be less technical, more.

Emotional, empathetic, things like that.

And his call to action to
make a difference really

hits the nail on the head.

As far as like dealing with some of
the common questions developers have,

sometimes we ask the wrong technical
questions and we don't understand

like what we're actually doing.

His blunt answers.

For the community, I think are
definitely guided by years of

wisdom and are super helpful.

And I think we don't realize how
much how much we appreciate Paul

and the work that he does, both
content wise teaching, but also

just bringing years of wisdom.

It's what we're doing and getting a big
picture outside of just having our head

hunkered down in Xcode all the time.

So yeah, it was awesome and I hope
I can see Paul speak again soon.

So to Swift Heroes a 100% SwiftUI
app with Marin Todorov off.

I really enjoyed Marron stock.


He brings, again, years of experience
and he knows how messy it has been.

Just moving to UI kit from AppKit
and even how messy AppKit is, as

old as it is, we think that some
of these APIs are perfect and

pristine and production ready.

And he brought us down a little bit to
reality about how some, how production

ready, even these older APIs are, and
Yeah, it was a really good talk, just

explaining the history of different
UI APIs and where SwiftUI fits in and

how, yeah, SwiftUIs aren't perfect,
but the others aren't perfect either.

Stop looking for perfection when it
comes to your production ready, APIs.

So I really like Marin's talk.


New technology ahead by Donnie Walls.

So along with Marin bringing his
experience to the table, Donny did a

really great job bringing his experience
and talking about how to integrate

newer technologies into larger apps.

And he gave a practical pun,
Nintendo, steps to large companies

or small applications even, what
steps to take to bring in SwiftUI

or bring in new APIs into their into
their app and how they should do it.

Just taking slow steps or do
that testing, things like that

we've talked about on the show.

Very practical.

Donnie, good job

building high performance programs by
understanding Swift ABI Jacob Kiermasz.

So this was the first time I've actually
seen Swift intermediate language,

which I think was really interesting.

And I really appreciated Jacob talking,
breaking down how it's implemented,

but also why certain patterns like.

Why should you use trucks all the time?

Why not classes?

Why should you do this?

Why should you do that?

And he showed you why you
should do that, not just for

architectural reasons, but also
for optimization and how the Swift

intermediate language is built.

So it was a really good talk.

I loved it.

Deep dive into "any" and "some" by Yuki
Yuka and I had been collaborating for

the last few weeks on our talks because
there were so much crossover, and what

I really appreciated about his talk was
how he brought the technical knowledge.

Taking Jacob's perspective on the SIL
and showing what some and any actually

do, what's their history as far as
in the Swift language and what they

actually bring to the table, to the
Swift language that wasn't there before.

I think it, it took a lot of burden
off of my talk from being overly

technical and he was able to, and
I hopefully liberated him to get

a little bit more deep dived into
the technical aspects of his talk.

Bravo you guys.

That's awesome.

I'm glad you did such a great job.

Hidde van der Ploeg.

So probably along with
Emmanuel are probably the two

indies I've heard most about.

And it was great to meet him in person
and just, To hear him talk about his

work and his passion in designing apps.

He took that experience and gave
some guidelines to those of us

who are, dumb developers and how
to design a really great app and

a great guide for those of us who
are just more inclined to do code.

So Swift Hearers will be posting these
talks, and if you find this talk later,

once I post the video, definitely check
it out cuz it's a great it's a great

talk to learn how to design properly.

Elevated Swift with Soroush Khanlou.

So apparently Soroush is
obsessed with elevators.

I found out, and he was so obsessed,
he decided to do a talk on it.

I loved this talk because this
was the computer sciencey.

How do you do this in programming
kind of talk that kind of

introduces you to programming.

But he does it with Swift and.

I think it was a really great real
world example of taking specs and

implementing them in Swift and
also to look at a problem like

elevators in a whole new way.

This is, this reminds me of the
old days of when I was starting

to be a programmer and like, how
do you sort, how do you do this?

Here's how to do an elevator.

Really great talk.

And I loved, I just loved
the work that he did.

Thank you so much for doing this talk.


The next day we had Shai
Mishali Shai has been on.

We did the Advanced Swift
episode, I believe, with him and.

This was the best and most
succinct app explanation and

demo of TCA that I've ever seen.

Now, we had the episode was Zev,
which was fantastic and broke

down how it works, but we're
not, we're a podcast, right?

So Shai was able to do this
with a live coding demo and I

thought it was really fantastic.

If you want to get a good intro
to TCA and you are not necessarily

interested in watching a point free.

Thing, I don't know.

Shai does a really good job, or I
would say probably second to point

for obviously this was a good talk
and it was a good introduction

for me to see it in action.

So after that was leveraging
composable architecture at

scale with Krzysztof Zabłocki.

Krzysztof is a genius, so
that was really helpful.

And what he did was he broke down
the pitfalls and issues with TCA for

more technical knowledge, especially
when it comes to performance.

And he's the creator of so many
great libraries and stuff on GitHub.

Check his GitHub out.

Trust me, it's amazing.

But he just brings all this like deep.

Real world knowledge as well as the
performance issues of TCA and says,

Hey, TCA is great, but here's some
things you should look out for.

If you are doing any larger
application and you're thinking

about tca, check the video out on
this presentation because he's got

some great advice if you're gonna.

Really start deep diving into that.

A Tale of Skeleton in Bones
with Stefano Mo ndino.

Stefano is a Synesthesia employee,
so he's obviously partially

hosting this event with Lucy.

And he had posted on Twitter, I
believe this library that he had talked

about called Murray, named after,
like Monkey Island, I think one of

those LucasArts games or something.

And I'm a huge fan of tourist.

I'm a huge fan of xcodegen.

I've dabbled into stencil and like
co-generation and stuff like that,

and to, to this was like, Dessert.

I really am a big fan of automation
developer tools, so I was really

excited to check this, talk out and
learn about this tool, and I definitely

chatted with him afterwards about it.

If you're looking for any sort of
like templating engine for your

projects to just quickly churn
outs, SwiftUI views and models and

things like that, check Murray out.

I'm post the link in the notes.

It's really cool what he did there.

It's veil on GitHub, of course.

But I love developer tools,
gimme more developer tools.

So this was a great one.

Speaking of developer tools, we had
making developer tools with Swift,

with Pol Piella Abadia who I'm big fan
of developer tools like I just said.

I don't know if I mentioned
that yet, but he's also a fan.

I'm also a fan of server size, Swift
and ci, and what he did is he showed

how to build a server Swift, so I app
that kind of babysits CI tools out

there like Xcode Cloud and GitHub.

And it's really fantastic to see
him fit all those pieces together.

I definitely gonna be looking out
for this code cause I always was been

interested in that kind of thing.

Yeah I love this talk.


Hopefully if the vi when the video
comes out, you'll check it out too.

But some of the sweet stuff
he, that he did with CIS is

fantastic and server Side Swift.

So this would've been
where my talk fit in.

By the way, it was after poll
and before Leah's talk, which was

confessions of a testing newbie.

Leah, we've had the show when we
did the episode on Bluetooth and

this was really great talk where
similar to via how she brought her

new bean newbie experience to it.

Leah's been doing this
for a long time, but.

What she did is she talked about her
journey into testing and what people

said, but what people actually did when
it came to testing and why testing is

important, what testing actually means,
what are the different kinds of testing.

This I, to me, it was like a
breath of fresh air, just hearing.

Someone's real world experience when
it comes to testing and I thought

there was some really great advice
about how to get started with testing,

what to do with testing, what kind
of testing you should focus on.

So I really like this talk.

So after Leah was Peter's talk on
building a reusable SwiftUI components.

We've had Peter around
to talk about Firebase.

Obviously that's the thing.

But what I really liked about
his talk, going back to what Vui

was talking about, is the idea of
US reusable SwiftUI components.

And he really broke that down and how
to do that into separate packages,

but also talked about library
content providers, which are away.

So you can see 'em in the xcode, gooey.

It's pretty incomplete.


Apple provides.

Hopefully we'll see
more of that this year.

But this is a really great talk
concerning how to modularize

your SwiftUI code and getting
back at what Ben and Vui and

Adam talked about as well.

And then lastly, I have building
delightful apps with Adam Bell.

Adam is amazing and he has really
good taste in music, which is awesome.

And he built this great app called
albums and just some of the cool

animations he did, how he did it it
was like, it was what he had Hidde did.

But when it comes to animations, and
I'm always scared of doing that kind

of stuff because I don't know how easy
or hard it will be to maintain it.

But I know now I have a little
bit more inspiration about how to

make good animations, why to make
good animations, and what that

actually means for your application.

Creating a fun experience.

Adam's work was amazing.

I really liked it.

That was an awesome presentation.

Some really great examples of
things you could do with flipping

albums and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, that was a really great talk.

So now I want to.

Give my overall thoughts on what I've
seen is like what a lot of developers

are talking about and what I think
are some big trends right now.

So SwiftUI is here, it's here to stay.

I think everybody wants to move to
SwiftUI for a lot of obvious reasons.

And I think one of the things I'm seeing
is people are trying to figure out ways

to modularize it and break it down both
the view side of it and the business.

Logic side of it, that's
where TCA fills in the blank.

But also like the reusable
components, the stuff that Peter

and Vu had talked about, I think
are gonna be really important.

How do we, I could see people wanting
to monetize SwiftUI controls and

being like, oh, I want this SwiftUI
where I can customize the color.

Can you gimme this
widget that does this?

But I can change the font,
I can change the color.

Things like that.

I think that's gonna become
really important in the future.

Kind of what Web has been doing
for a long time now with CSS

and with like different design
patterns and things like that.

I think.

I'd like to see something like
that in that space with I.

So we'll see where that might be headed.

Going back to twin's talk, I think
navs stacks are really something

that people are really interested in.

They're glad they have
what they have now.

Some people see some limitations
with it, some people see problems

with it because we don't all maintain
apps that are only in iOS 16.

So the question becomes
what do you do then?

And there's a lot of talk do you do
at UI navigation controller really.

And then everything else is
just navigated through that.

But seems to be the pattern right now.

So there's definitely a lot of
interest in navigation and we'll

see if Apple even gives us more
this year when it comes to that.

I think people are interested in
Server side Swift, I don't think

that's gonna go any away anytime soon.

Obviously there's a lot of buy-in
issues from folks and also who, what

enterprise company has business with,
what other enterprise companies,

so there's always gonna be that.

It was interesting to see only one
machine learning AI talk, but that

kind of makes sense because I don't,
I dunno what else in Swift you

can really do with that per se, to
make a like actual good useful app.

So not certain about that.

Developer tools were a big thing.

TCA was mentioned a lot and I really
liked some of the more experienced

wise, wisdom based talks, like
with Marin and Donnie and Paul.

Yeah, navex SwiftUI server sites
SwiftUI Modularization, SwiftUI

styling, SwiftUI navigation.

Those kind of seemed to
have been the big things.

So Chris had a couple of questions.

How many of them were synth Wave fans?

I'm not sure about that, Chris.

I didn't ask.

But based on Adam's talk, I would
say a lot of folks are entertainment

P that's pretty good that, that
helps me get my Xcode stuff done.

What do you think people
are most excited for wwdc?

A lot of people are
talking about the glasses.

People are excited about that.

I'm excited and I talked with
Hill Hilde about this watch OS 10.

I'm excited for that.

I really, I know I'm gonna be
disappointed, but I'm excited

about what the possibilities
could bring to watch OS 10.

There's rumors now that watch Series
nine might actually have a new

processor, which we haven't had since.

Series five.

So maybe there's something there.

Yeah, I mean like the Ultra is still
basically a wa glorified watch eight

series eight with a big battery.

I don't know.

I just watch OS needs, it's has so
much potential, but the technology's

not there, which is ironic cuz now
they're gonna build these glasses where

the technology isn't there either.

So I don't know how
well that's gonna go.

Navigation, like I said, people want
to see more stuff in that space.

I think, I'm trying to think what
else I heard people talk about.

There's always like fill in
the blanks with Swifty y what,

what's missing in Swifty y?

What, where's combined fit in this?

Where does Async weight fit in that?

So that was what I think what I'm
excited for, like I said, would be

watch os I like to see a, I like to see
Swift Dry be even better on the Mac.

I think those are the two things.

Swift package improvement.

I'd like to see that people still
have a lot of friction getting

started with Swift packages
today, and I don't blame them.

I know now how to navigate around that.

So for me it's like second nature,
but I could see how new newbie

would have issues with that.

So yeah, that's all I had for today.

I just wanted to talk about
like those conferences.

I know it's episode one
50, which is awesome.

Hopefully I'll be around
for another 150 episodes.

There's been so much we've
covered on this show.

Please subscribe and if you're
watching this on YouTube,

subscribe on your podcast player.

I'm always looking for a new work, so if
you're looking for something, you need

a new Swift developer, reach out to me.

I have some open slots in
this summer, so let me know.

And if you're looking for
a speaker, let me know too.

I will be taking a hiatus.

Until June, because
something's coming up in June.

I might have a friend of mine
called Peter has a channel

called Compile Swift, which
you should also subscribe to.

We might do another thing again,
so subscribe to check that out.

We'll be doing another first
day State of the Union keynote

review, so check that out.

Thank you so much for joining me, and I
will see you all in less than a month.

Meanwhile, I will be busy.

Savings a high roll again,
so thank you everyone.

Talk to.