Overcoming Adversity And The Importance Of Professional Boundaries

Show Notes

In this episode, we learn about two incredible women, Claire Fry and Louise Napier Smith.

Louise shares her incredible journey to becoming a veterinarian against the odds as a teenage mother working in retail. We learn how she overcame her struggles to apply to vet school with limited education and how one particular conversation can
change your life.

Claire describes how her life experiences during the 2008 recession changed her career trajectory from working for a global insurance company to opening up her own coaching business, Pale Blue Coaching.

In the vet profession, we place a huge emphasis on the continued professional development of our clinical or technical skills, but ultimately, it's a people business. Through coaching techniques, we can all learn who we are and what we need professionally and personally.

Claire and Louise share their techniques for dealing with loneliness at work and the importance of having the right people around you, even if they are not the people
you would necessarily expect help from.

Lastly, we discuss how expectations can vastly differ from reality as a new grad vet and the importance of believing in yourself and your ability to achieve your dreams.

Useful Links:

Lou’s Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/the.vet.in.heels/
Claire’s LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/claireheatherfry/?originalSubdomain=uk
Pale Blue Coaching
https://palebluecoaching.com/

Join us each month for a new episode of The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast and stay informed on the latest developments in equine health and wellness. To get in touch with the show, please email [e-mail].

What is The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast?

Welcome to The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast, brought to you by MSD Animal Health.
 
Join our expert hosts, Dr. Ebony Escalona and Dr. Naomi Mellor, both experienced equine veterinarians, each month as they bring you informative and engaging discussions about all things equine health and wellness. 

The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast is aimed at vets who want to know more about how to look at things differently in equine, from what ‘flexing’ could mean as an equine vet, to the latest technology developments and looking after your own wellbeing. Ebony and Naomi will share the exciting developments within the equine world that our guests are leading in. With a focus on looking at life in equine practice through a different lens, our podcast will feature interviews with leading experts in their field. Whether you are a seasoned equine vet or a GP vet looking to expand your knowledge of equine medicine, our podcast will provide you with valuable insights and information.

So, join us each month for a new episode of The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast and stay informed on the latest developments in equine health and wellness. To get in touch with the show, please email [e-mail].

Blaise Scott-Morris: Hello and
welcome to the KBHH podcast

where we are looking at doing
things differently in the equine

industry, from new technologies
to equine behaviour to wellbeing

within equine practice. We've
got something for you. So sit

back, relax, and I hope you
enjoy the show.

Naomi Mellor: Well, Louise,
Claire, thank you so, so much

for joining us today, I Know Ebs
and I are really excited about

this chat. Unlike some of our
other recordings, we are all

together, which is really cool.
And we're really looking forward

to this conversation. We're
going to kick off with a little

introduction from both Claire
and Louise. So Lou, do you want

to go first? Just tell us a
little bit about who you are,

what you do, what you're up to
and where you are in the world.

Louise Napier Smith: Okay, so I
live in, I'm currently living in

Bedfordshire, actually, I work
in in in Hartfordshire and

Bedfordshire. I'm a mixed
practice vet, truly mixed

practice, I do three days a week
mix where I focus mainly on

small holders and equine
clients. I do see some smalls

there as well. And then I work
two days a week in a busy Small

Animal Hospital in London. So
what I really love as well. I

graduated, just over a year now,
from RVC. And I am mom to three,

I've got Ethan, Darcy and Eliza,
ranging from 14 to 10. And wife

to Chris. I did vet school when
my youngest, I decided to, I was

doing a job, corporate job in
Belfast, Northern Ireland.

Always wanted to do veterinary
but because we had our kids

young, that kind of flew out the
door, and then just straight

ahead up with it and then
decided to be a vet. And so

yeah, here I am, eventually.

Ebony Escalona: But Lou, you're
making it seem very simple. I

think you need to share a little
bit more about getting into vet

school because it was nothing
short of miraculous with so much

grit and self belief and
determination. But I think it

needs to be it needs to be
heard. Because you didn't you

didn't have the grades
originally didn't you.

Louise Napier Smith: I had
started with a levels and then

fell pregnant. So I was a
teenage mom and basically just

had to get a job. Well, vet
school was never really and it

just kind of went to the
sideline. And then got a job

working for Estee Lauder
companies and House Of Fraser,

and worked my way up there as
one of the assistant studio

managers, which I loved. And we
had a team of 21, which was

quite quite big. So I think I
was 21 and I had 21 staff that I

was managing, which is a bit
chaotic, looking back at it, and

I feel like I way very under
qualified to be doing that sort

of thing. And I did enjoy that.
I have to say, I learned a lot

by customer facing and, you
know, sales and and just general

management, and managing my own
staff, I suppose and, and

working out how to be a mom and
work, I was very full time. So I

was very, very busy at that
time. Too busy. Probably in

hindsight, I look back and think
I probably should take few more

holidays and I missed a lot of
important events because I was

focusing so heavily on my
career. But you know, we needed

the money as well, I guess. I
had to be good at what I did,

and maybe prove myself a little
bit. From a very young age I

wanted to be a vet. I didn't
have a plan B so Plan B ended up

getting figured out along the
way. So I actually at that point

enrolled in an equine science
diploma where I could do

distance learning. And the hope
was that I wouldn't have to do a

levels, I could go in through
the inter graduate course. So

that was amazing. I loved the
equine science course. But

again, it was very much a bit of
a juggling act because I was

trying to work full time. I had
Ethan at that time. Then Darcy

came along not too long after I
guess. And I was really trying

very hard with my studies. And
they were completely irrelevant

to what I was working at as
well. It was it was horses, but

I managed to pull some good
grades out of that. And it

seemed like it was all very
promising. But all of this is

just after 2008, just in the
wake of the recession and

Ireland was hit pretty hard. The
university lost funding after a

number of years for distance
learning courses. So I had to

make a decision to either move
to Limerick, which was about 300

miles away from our home and,
and finish the last year of the

official degree in Limerick, or
I was gonna have to do my A

levels, which I honestly can't
tell you how much I tried to

avoid that in every which way, I
really just thought, this is

gonna be too hard. And, and so I
came up with a bright idea to

buy some a level books off
Amazon, and teach myself the

course. And so that was a
categorical mistake. And I

wouldn't recommend only for the
simple fact that you just, you

know, didn't really have anybody
to turn to. And if you've got a

question, you spend six hours
trying to find the answer

instead of having a tutor or
something that can quickly

answer your question for you.
But it allowed me to work. So I

was still able to work and start
with my studies. And they were

kind of going okay. And then I,
as I say, just thought, right?

If I want to be if I want to, if
I'm going to seriously apply to

vet school, I need a job in a
vet practice. There's no point

in me working here, in House Of
Fraser, they're gonna think that

this is very unorthodox, sort of
for a client to come along to

ask for a place at vet school.
So I handed in my notice, and my

manager there just thought I was
completely insane, and probably

was right, it doesn't make
sense. And so I then wrote a CV

and a letter, trying to explain
to all the vet practices in

Northern Ireland, 72 to be
precise, actually, there are 72

vet practices, I went through,
back in back in the day, which

we had the Yellow Pages, just
wrote a list of all the vett

practices and put a letter
together and applied, I was

literally looking for any job.
And it was like, I'll do

whatever, you know, I'll answer
phones. I'll clean. I waited and

waited, waited. To be fair, I
came from a farming background

and lots of other experience,
having seen practice and things

like that in the build up to the
hope that I would be a vet

student one day. Nobody was
calling me back, the only one

who called me back, I got a nice
letter from one of the others

who basically said, I don't
really know why you want a job

in veterinary, it's not not
really tying in with your skill

set. So that was the only other
feedback that I got. And anyway,

I got this phone call through
from URI and he was one of the

directors and he said, I've seen
your CV and we're actually

looking for someone to come and
join our team. Would you come in

for a chat? I was I can't do, I
think I left like, I was

probably way over enthusiastic
over the phone. You know, I'm

sure he was like, right, okay.
But I was. So I'm so excited

about this job. And to give you
a kind of a idea. I went from

what I would classify for my age
group, a very well paid job. I

think something like six or
seven pounds an hour, and I did

not give a hoot. I thought I
don't care what I have to do to

make this work. I am taking this
job. So actually, I suppose one

of the things that really made
me take that leap was there was

one day I had a client and we
started to chat, and I find out

that she was a paediatric
consultants, lovely, lovely

woman. And we just got chatting
and chatting. And then I said,

Actually, obviously talking
about her medical career. I

really always wanted to be a
vet, but I didn't do it. And she

said, Oh, well, well, why not?
And I said, well, because I have

a little boy, that kind of paid
to my career dream career as it

was just like, Well, why? And I
was like, well, because I've got

some, I've got a child and and
that usually anytime I said that

that was my excuse over in
somewhere, but I didn't have to

explain myself anymore, because
people we're like yeah I can see

that. She just kept saying, So?
So What, if you want to do it,

do it. There's plenty of people
who have gone through university

with all sorts of things that
you would suspect might hold the

back. And actually in the end,
it turns out to be a real

driver. And so I think without
her, I really now vividly

remember that conversation
coming back to me. And I wish I

could go back and find her as my
anchor because it was the

turning point. I think that
probably just sparked something

that I thought well this lady
told me I can do it, she

obviously knows what shes
talking about so surely she must

be right.

Naomi Mellor: But it's amazing,
isn't it? Sometimes you have

those conversations where you,
one person says one thing, and

that's just enough for you to
think, oh, yeah, this is

possible. And I think I'm a big
believer in the phrase of you

can't be what you can't see. And
I think sometimes it's whether

it's someone tells you or
whether you see it, it's the

encouragement, you need to know
that that is possible for you.

And, and then you can, And
that's your jumping off point.

And actually, that's, it's an
incredible gift to give somebody

an incredible gift that she's
given you and look where you are

now, you know that that one
conversation has been the kind

of spark for everything else.
And obviously, it's taken like a

huge amount of grit and hard
work from you. But you know,

it's kind of incredible. When
you drill drill down that often

it is that one moment, that one
conversation, that one thing,

you know.

Claire Fry: Yeah. And she sounds
like she was a sort of mentor in

the moment, almost often people
are very focused on Oh, I should

be part of a mentoring programme
and get matched up with someone

who's right for me. And there,
she was just right there, and

you were ready to hear it. And
yeah, that was that when she

challenged you or pushed you

Naomi Mellor: It's incredible.
And Claire so, Louise's story is

probably slightly different to
your own. Given that you're not

in the veterinary profession. We
would love to hear a little bit

about you and your career. And
just any reflections on on what

we've been talking about. So
far, you are a coach. So tell us

a little bit about yourself.

Claire Fry: Sure, it's an
incredible story Louise just

told, there are some overlaps.
Although on the kids front, I

was very much the opposite. Very
cautious about the whole thing,

you have to do everything in
perfect order, because

otherwise, it's all gonna go
terribly wrong. It's very clear

that that's not the case, I
think it can give you a lot more

grit and determination, when you
kind of go, Oh, I've got this

kids, and I've got something I
want to do. And I'm just gonna

make work and make it happen.
And you have those that support

around you. I was one of those
people who was asked throughout

high school and university and
beyond what is it that you

actually want to do, what do you
want to do? And I kept thinking,

I just want to kind of problem
solve and be with people. I

studied French and German at
university. And I thought, well,

what am I going to do with that
though, I'm not going to be a

professor, I just I learned
languages because I wanted to be

able to talk to more people.
Understand more of poeples

stories, how's that gonna work?
So I went into business, I

thought, well, I need to pay
rent and be able to speak to

people. So I worked, I ended up
working for a global insurance

like you in 2008, if I was kind
of jumping from job to job, just

trying to find something during
the recession. And so I just

kept taking temp jobs, and I
would end up doing assistant

work having done all these
degrees, I sort of went the

other way around, and that
company that I went into with no

interview, no nothing, it was
just kind of show up, wear

something vaguely smart. They're
an insurance company. But I met

some of the best people there.
And unbeknownst to me, they were

going through a huge kind of
financial reckoning, they had

been accidentally miss pricing
some of their insurance products

out of Bermuda, and that almost
took them down as a company. So

when I joined, I didn't realise
this, but they were recovering

from sort of near death
experience financially. And they

enter, the environment that I
went into was very tense to say

the least. And to see the
leadership that got involved in

kind of riding the ship and then
steering it in the right

direction. And then they went on
this whole culture journey and

wanted to understand the
organisational culture

assessment that I still use
called the Barrett culture

survey. And they asked, you
know, global company, they're

all over Africa, us, all over
Europe, etc. And so they asked

every single one of their
employees through this survey,

what do you think, what do you
care about? Where are we on

this? And they actually worked
on it, which just made such a

difference.

Naomi Mellor: Really refreshing
to hear that and kind of have

those moments where you're like,
Oh, that's very forward thinking.

Claire Fry: Absolutely. And
everyone was very suspicious at

first. I mean, I would go on
business trips to South Africa a

lot from the London office, and
they would all go all this

culture survey, they're trying
to catch us out there. They're

gonna track us back. And I kept
saying, from a Head Office

perspective, they're not it's
it's anonymous. They couldn't

they couldn't pin you down to
your answers if they wanted to.

And they did the survey every
year. And then they kept working

on stuff. And they would have a
couple big values, words and

themes that they were looking to
improve. And it was pretty

incredible. Anyway, through all
of that, I started getting into

women in leadership while I was
there, and was on their steering

committee for their women's
network. Anywhere I got involved

in their global leadership
programme, and then they were

starting to look at delisting
from London and kind of selling

off parts of the business and it
was it was time to go Oh, and I

thought, This is my big chance
to go and do what I've always

wanted to do. I didn't know that
my job that I do now, I didn't

know that it existed when I was
growing up. So that's why I

wanted to chat to people want to
release their potential, as I

think was a bit of a journey

Ebony Escalona: And Claire, you
know, you've now got your own

very successful coaching
business. In the vet profession,

we place a hell of a lot of
learning and continued

professional development on our
clinical skills, on the

technical skills, that gets the
job done. But as we all know, it

doesn't matter what profession
we're in, what sector we're in,

it's a people business. And I'm
actually sure one of the reasons

why Lou is so successful is that
she actually did customer

service for years and years and
years with people before she

even entered the workforce. So
she already had that experience

of what it was to work with
people and people are the best

often cited in, in, in
veterinary services, the best

part of the job, and the worst
part of the job. Coaching is a

slightly different way of
learning. And it's not learning

the external stuff, and the
technical stuff that helps us do

our job. It's about learning,
you know, who we are. So I don't

know if there's, it'd be lovely
to kind of for you to kind of

reflect on some of the stuff
that that Lou has shared. And

perhaps, you know, she's
atypical in lots of ways, but

lots of things that she actually
faced were big barriers, and

they're often things that
stopped a lot of, you know, our

profession moving forward. So,
yeah, lovely to hear how

actually coaching, we can all
take a little bit of that into

into a lives.

Claire Fry: Yeah, and it's an
interesting thing about when

you're speaking about veterinary
practice, or insurance or asset

management or customer
experience, any of these things,

any of these sectors, people get
quite bogged down in

technicalities. So that's the
thing that I really need to work

on are not qualified enough in
that area. But the reality is,

we all have the same issues come
up time and time again, for

individuals and for
organisations, they're actually

nothing to do with the technical
side. You know, the best people

know what they need to do in
their job. It's, it's the people

facing stuff, it's working with
colleagues, it's working with

clients. And I know in
especially with ambulatory

equine vets, there's lots of
moving around, you don't know

where you're sort of meeting
people emotionally, when you get

there, they could be very
anxious and lots of distress,

money pressures, emotional
pressures, just lots of things

that could be coming at you. So
it is very much about those

human things, in my work is a
lot more about, especially when

people are working on their own
and you're solo, it's how do you

understand what your values are,
your personal values, and have

boundaries to protect those so
that they're really shining when

you're around other people. And
you're not being pushed, Every

Which Way. And an interesting
way to think about boundaries is

it's what create, and it's what
I allow. So from the positive

side, you know, what am I
building? What's my personal

brand, which sounds a bit
grandiose, or kind of glamorous,

but really we're talking about
when you meet me, or when, when

someone meets you Louise, What
vibe are they getting from you?

What what do they know, they can
count on from you? Well, you

know, Louise would never do
this. And she'll always, you

know, show up with a smile,
whatever the thing is, and then

what are the things that you
don't allow, you know, that if

you imagine a house with a, you
know, beautiful house with a

fence around it, what's not
coming in? What's kind of like,

no, no, I don't accept that
certain behaviour, and that

protects other people, as well
as you in terms of how, how they

interact. So that's a big piece,
values and purpose. Because when

people, we can all get wrapped
up in the money thing, we all

need it to pay our bills, and
you know, live where we want to

live. And it's an important part
of it. And people often say, Oh,

well, I'm not worried about the
money side. And you know, I

don't care about that, women
particularly say that, not all

of them. But a lot of the time.
I'm like, No, it's fine when

trying to you know, it's not a
charity. And even if you're

working for a charity, you still
need an income through it. So

it's still business in that
sense. And there's nothing to be

ashamed of there. And there is
to be fairness and boundaries

around that to, you know, what
we're paid. But then thinking

about from the purpose side,
what is my personal purpose

beyond money? And how does that
connect with my customers,

clients? And if we work for an
organisation, the organisation

I've worked for where those
overlaps, and how am I

protecting those things?

Naomi Mellor: It's this idea of
the personal versus the

professional, and one of the
things we encounter quite a lot,

particularly in equine practices
is this idea of working alone

and working and the loneliness
that can accompany that as well.

And I think sometimes it's
really difficult when you are by

yourself a lot of the time. How
have you kind of overcome that

idea of, both because Claire you
work alone, and by the looks

says you know you're working at
home as well. So home working

solo working has been a big
thing during the pandemic. And

also you Lou, like how have you
kind of developed strategies for

combating loneliness at work?
And secondly, how has that

impacted on your personal and
professional boundaries, if at

all, and any strategies you have
around that as well, we talk

about an epidemic of loneliness
in elderly people, but we never

talk about an epidemic of
loneliness in working people.

And actually, that can be a
thing, you know.

Louise Napier Smith: There is an
element of loneliness there that

is subconscious in many ways,
because I think I think it's not

really until people like
yourself, Claire, point that out

and, and talk about it, and
Naomi, that actually, there are

times where you're driving
around, and you'd just love to

have a chat with someone, or you
need a bit of advice, or you

want to ask that question. But
you, you can't really. And

certainly for me, a lot of it
is, initially as a new grad, is

that you need to ask the
clinical question, but you're

standing right there in front of
the owner, there's a horse

that's thrashing around for
whatever reason you need an

answer. And what I have find to
be extremely useful, are group

chats, work group chat, now, if
you've got a big, you know,

group, it's great. If you have a
smaller group with not so many

vets, it's not not so great,
because you can very quickly pop

a quick message into group chat
and you're not having to, you

know, awkwardly phone your boss
and ask for a second opinion in

front of someone who's there,
you know, breathing down your

neck, you just drop a quick
message in. I usually certainly

an occasion when I've had to do
it I've wrote Urgent Answer

Required or something so people
who see it know that they need

to try and get an answer. And
and then someone will come back

to you. I think that that's
certainly from a clinical

perspective, that's good. And
it's getting that off your

chest, you know, as early as
possible and not hold, you know,

you go home, you hold on to
those things, you need to talk

to people. And it doesn't even
matter if it's not someone who I

mean, the majority of my friends
are not actually small equine

vets. They're farm animals that
so they're small animal vets,

but it's everybody is
experienced in a slightly

different shade of the same type
of issue. And even obviously,

having those conversations with
your friends who are not vets,

you know, you're within the
limitations of what you can

discuss. It's important because
everybody, everybody has an

experience of dealing with
people and the hardships of some

description or other so I as a
practitioner, I don't personally

feel lonely on a regular basis.
But I think that's probably

because I'm a chatterbox, and I
talk to people. And I talk about

things, as I say, within the
limitations what you can discuss.

Ebony Escalona: Yeah,
absolutely. Claire, I could see

you nodding away there, you
know, what were your, what were

your reflections from listening
to those really, really great

nuggets there from from Lou?

Claire Fry: Yeah, so picking up
on what Lou was saying about

listening. So I was thinking
about the kind of people who

might be listening to this, who
were who were in the car or

whatnot in between jobs. And I
think vets for the most part are

going to be probably empaths or
be quite excellent listeners

themselves. And speaking of kind
of loneliness, and so forth, who

is going to listen to you, at
the end of the day? How do I

take care of myself? So that and
where do I draw the line in

terms of, I'm not gonna be able
to go to this next call, because

that's not right for them. And
it's not right for me, I'm just

not in a space where I could do
it, you need to send someone

else. And also, I need to be
able to get this off my chest

and say what I'm feeling. I
ended up sort of over time, I've

built a kind of almost board
around myself. It's more

informal than that. But kind of
thinking about who do I speak to

on the technical side, who's
really good at holding me to my

own boundaries with clients and
making sure that I'm keeping

everything in line on that
front? And who really challenges

me? Who can I hear the tough
stuff from? So I have a mentor,

who used to have her own
leadership business, and it's

retired. And she's in her 60s.
And she's someone who, she can

say some really tough direct
stuff to me sometimes. And it

can still hit me between the
eyes a little bit, but my

recovery time is a lot quicker
with her and I can I know her

intentions are, are totally
pure. That's an important one,

someone who you can take
feedback from and hear the tough

stuff from and you know, they're
only telling you that because it

might be a blind spot and it's
going to help you get through

that. That tough time. There's
no other agenda there. I have a

coach myself as well. That's
kind of like about once a

quarter tried to do that and
helps broaden my thinking. And

then I have friends in the area
a lot of whom I met during

pandemic it's kind of the
opposite to travelling around

all the time. I was here a lot
and and then it's kind of who

can I go have a coffee with out
in the cold or in the park and a

lot of those are women who are.
So I'm 38. A number of them are

in their late 40s or even early
50s. And so they've got grown up

kids. And it gives me that
perspective as well, kind of,

what does this look like down
the line? And what can I not

sweat right now? Because
actually, they don't really

remember the details of all the
juggling.

Naomi Mellor: But I think that's
really important. And I think

there's two things that that you
just said there that made me

kind of just think back on the
value of having people of

different ages in your corner,
value of having people both

younger and older with a variety
of viewpoints. And I think, you

know, you mentioned about
mentors there, Claire, and we

discuss a lot about the value of
mentors, but I think also

reverse mentoring and having
people younger than you who can

teach you so much about yourself
and about the world, you don't

know, as well. And Lou, how are
you building that sort of

mentoring network formal or
informal around you in practice?

And as you're kind of building
your career sounds like Claire's

fairly established on that
front. I was just wondering, how

as a vet you found that process
kind of going into practice in

the last year,

Louise Napier Smith: I would say
mine's definitely less formal, I

would say I have a lot of
mentors who do not actually know

that their my mentors. Or and I
guess that there's definitely

different people that I'll go to
for different bits of advice.

And I think, I think you hit the
nail on the head about age

groups. My life, not necessarily
by any direct thing that I was

trying to do. But because I was
at university with majority of

people who were younger than me,
when I went to the school gates,

I had a lot of maybe slightly
older parents, because we were

young parents, and also having
people, which I think is really

important, and I hope that I'm
one of those people. Where for

for my friends, is that, you
know, you don't have to be in

contact with someone on a very
regular basis to, to have an

issue and drop them a message
that you know that that person

is going to be good at helping
you with. And I suppose social

media helps in that perspective,
as well. When when when we're

all connected in that way. You
feel like you see people or know

people better than you, you
probably would do if we were all

back in the age of telephones
and meeting up with people. You

know.

Claire Fry: I was just gonna
pick up on something Naomi said

about younger, just different
age groups and younger people,

all the things that get said
sometimes about oh, you know,

this, this latest generation,
and they don't have any sense of

determination in this that and
I'm like, That's absolute

nonsense. I mean, people either
have it, or they don't maybe

could be said, but I don't see
any differences between genders

Ebony Escalona: 100%, 100%. And
Lou, just just quickly, you've

or age group.
wanted to be a vetfor so long,

but how have expectations
matched reality? I think there's

quite a lot of issues there. In
terms of often the way we think

our vet career might be in that
in that first in that first year

or two.

Louise Napier Smith: I
absolutely love my job, I am so

glad that I did it. I say I did
it. I always say actually, we

did it as a family, I feel like
we did it. I am a through and

through animal person. But I
also really do love people. And

I think that my, my earliest
memory of deciding that I wanted

to be a vet was where we had a
pony that had gotten very badly

injured. And we took it to a
chap called Bruce, in Northern

Ireland, a very well known
equine vet. And I just felt like

this guy can, this guy is going
to be able to help us he's going

to be able to fix this. And, and
that's partly why I love

emergency medicine is because I
feel like I can help the animal

but I can I can provide some
comfort for the people or do

something useful for them. It
has superseded my expectations,

in many ways. However, the first
year was difficult by you know,

there's no way around that as
much as anybody loves their job

or whatever, there there are so
many challenges and barriers

that you just like even as a vet
student, you will never think of

about. You get there and you are
still learning and then you're

you know, trying to figure all
of those things I you know,

manage a hysterical owner and
that sort of thing. So those

things I wasn't quite prepared
for, I guess, and having said

that, that was me coming from
working in a veterinary

practice. And having worked, you
know, I did work weekend nights

in a small animal hospital
during during COVID as sort of a

veterinary assistant. So I
thought I was well prepared, but

I still think there's some
things that you just don't get

until you're experiencing it
yourself. It's always great to

have those colleagues that you
trust and you can have those

conversations with. They'll give
you good sound advice. Part of

that, that I felt was
challenging was this new, were

you've got owners that are just,
you know, relying on you in such

a heavy way, they want to
contact with you on such a

regular basis. You think you've
relayed your Bloods and you've

done this, and you've done that,
but they still want to keep, you

know, talking to you and asking
you questions and getting more

information. And I think, in
Ambulatory Practice, you're not

quite as protected as you are in
small animal practice, because

of because I do both I can see
there is a real difference. In

the small animal practice, your
reception team will take your

calls, you most likely your your
clients do not have your mobile

number. In ambulatory equine
practice thats a very different

thing, unless you're extremely
disciplined, and you've got

proper rules about that sort of
thing. So many of my clients

have my number they can call me,
they could call me now, if they

wanted to, you know, and get in
touch. And they will send you a

message that you can't
necessarily ignore or defer in

many ways, because that it might
be something that they need an

answer to, and it would be
slightly negligent of you to not

answer them in in a way. That
side of things, I realised, was

something that I struggled a
little bit with, just that let

the relentlessness and the fact
that that's, that's going to not

go away. And I think as soon as
you kind of realise what it is

that I was. I was felt like I
was dragging a burden. But I

wasn't quite sure what that
burden was. And then I realised

that actually, you know, and you
don't always know the answers as

a new grad, it will become
easier and it does become

easier. So I think that that
certainly was something that I

wasn't quite ready for and
expected.

Ebony Escalona: Yeah, yeah, I
can, I can remember that. I can

remember that. Even now. You
know, I'm 13 years out and

everything you're saying I can
feel and remember, I always say

expectations are just
resentments waiting to happen.

But how can you kind of agree,
you know, understand as much as

reality as you can before before
you get there, but but like Lou

says so much of it, you have to
go through, there's no

protection from it. It's It's
experiential on a personal

level. And that's something that
we have to go through. So over

to you Claire.

Claire Fry: I was actually going
to pick up on something Louise

said earlier in her story of all
of this, how she got into this,

where you've been sending out
all these application 70 so

applications, and one of the
bits of feedback you got was I

don't know why you're applying
for veterinary when it doesn't

tie in with your skill set. And
this, this goes, that really

struck me. And this happens a
lot. I think in all industries,

people have all different
agendas and backgrounds and

preconceived notions about what
is and isn't possible. And that

struck me as some very bizarre
feedback. But all I want to say

about this is if you really love
something, and you really care

about it, try to turn the volume
down on people who have all

these ideas about, you know,
what isn't isn't possible for

you. Because it, you know, it
really can be done as we see

with Lou, and you never know
quite why someone is doing that,

you know, it could even be a
slightly malicious agenda, or

they could be sort of envious
and think to themselves, you

know, oh, I wish I'd done that I
could have gone for it a bit

more. And now here I am. So they
sort of need to believe that

other people can't. There are
lots of different reasons. But

it's important to listen to your
own intuition there. And same

for the boundaries piece. If
something doesn't feel right, if

you kind of go this really
doesn't gel with me this

behaviours, not okay, to really
listen to that, and not listen

to the narratives that you might
be being given or that might be

sort of, even from childhood,
it's kind of, well, I just have

to work harder, I have to work
through it. You know, you're

being given messages all the
time by by your body and your

kind of psyche. And you can tap
into those quite a bit.

Naomi Mellor: There is so much
value in that conversation. And

from what you're both saying
about inspiration, techniques,

boundaries, mentors, Getting
Started, looking after each

other. It's just, it's
brilliant. It's brilliant. It's

brilliant. I think it's a lot,
especially when you're starting

out. It is really hard. And I
think we're not unique in our

profession in that sense. And
I'm sure Claire would echo that,

that there's a lot of
professions where it's really

hard when you start and it
sounds so trite to say that some

of it is just life experience
that you just have to go through

when you start your career but
there is an element of that I

think and but the reassurance of
knowing that you're not alone,

and there's always people out
there definitely I know I am,

Ebs is as well. If anyone wants
to ever get in touch with us, we

are always happy to help in any
way we can and whether that's a

listening ear or advice or being
a mentor or whatever. There's

people out there who can help
you and VSGD and an MSD are very

keen for that to be a message of
this podcast as well. So Claire,

Lou, thank you so much. It's
been a real joy, loved this

conversation and I know Ebs will
echo that as well.

Ebony Escalona: Yeah, we could
get it rolling and just quickly

for people who would love to
follow maybe your journeys a

little bit more. Lou, I know
you've got you're really active

and share a lot of wonderful
things on Instagram. How where

can people find you? What's the
handle?

Louise Napier Smith: It's
thevetinheels actually.

Certainly, I do always reply to
messages on that as well. If

anybody has any questions or
fancies doing a kind of quirky

career type thing that I'm doing.

Ebony Escalona: That's
brilliant. Thank you and Claire,

how about you? Where can people
find out a little bit more about

you?

Claire Fry: So I'm on LinkedIn,
mainly. There's lots of

confidentiality stuff for me and
clients. So that's the best

place to reach me, so I'm Claire
Fry and my company is called

Pale Blue Coaching.

Ebony Escalona: Absolutely
wonderful. Thank you all.

Naomi Mellor: Thank you so much.
It's been a joy.

Blaise Scott-Morris: What an
amazing show. Many thanks to

today's guests. If you want more
information, have a look at the

show notes or drop us a line at
[e-mail]