Why Loyalty Planning Should Start with The Traveler, Not the Program

In this episode, Rachel Satow and Ian Andersen explore what truly makes travel loyalty programs resonate with customers today. Drawing on personal stories and industry expertise, they discuss why loyalty planning should pivot from point systems to the real-life journeys and emotions of travelers. You’ll hear how cross-functional teamwork, memorable customer experiences, and emotional connection can transform retention strategies in a crowded marketplace. If you’re looking to rethink loyalty through a more human and holistic lens, this conversation offers practical insights and a fresh perspective.

Chapters
(00:01) The Limits of Transactional Loyalty Programs
(04:10) Designing Loyalty Around the Traveler Experience
(08:30) The Need for Cross-Functional Alignment
(14:35) Rethinking Planning Through the Traveler Lens
(18:32) Designing Memorable Moments and Peak Experiences
(25:09) Emotional Versus Economic Loyalty Drivers
(30:55) Practical Steps for Customer-Centric Loyalty

Connect with Switchfly
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Creators and Guests

Host

Ian Andersen

Demand Gen & Marketing Operations Manager

Host

Rachel Satow

Senior Marketing Strategist

What is Travel Buddy with Switchfly?

See more at Switchfly.com

Today's episode is a little bit different
in that, as Rachel mentions, we want

to point out that we are all travelers,
whether you work for an airline or you're

a teacher, or everything in between, and
we want to bring to bear some stories

about our traveling experience and our
customer service experience because

if we think about loyalty programs
through the lens of the traveler.

Right, rather than through the
mechanics of the actual program and

its perks and benefits and how those
work out, we can actually get some more

insight into how to design the right
customer journey for our customers to

gain long-term loyalty and revenue.

So without further ado,
here's today's show.

Welcome to Travel Buddy,
presented by Switchfly.

In this podcast, we talk about all
things travel, rewards, and loyalty.

Let's get to it.

Brandon Giella: What if loyalty planning
didn't start with tears or points,

but with the traveler's mindset at
the moment of booking, today we're

talking about more human forward loyalty
programs around decision points and

the way that humans actually work.

And I wanted to start with a story
before we jump in with Rachel and Ian.

Lovely to have you.

And the story is, a couple weeks ago
I was traveling for Christmas and.

I am on a major airline and I'm
going through the booking process

and I'm adding in a infant in lap.

And I made the mistake before of adding
four travelers for my family, one of

whom is an infant, and I had to pay
for him and that was a mistake 'cause

it's expensive and he should be free.

He is free.

I just made a mistake, so
this time I didn't add that.

That way I tried a different way and the
UI on the website is confusing to me.

I've done this at least 15 times with
children, so I should be good at this.

And then I select my seats and
then I get to the kiosk where you

have to go to the kiosk 'cause of
the way the lines are arranged.

And I, type in all my information.

'cause I have to do that.

That's what the process, that's
what they tell me when I get there.

And then I have to, I'm flagged because
I have an infant and I have car seats.

So then I go to the line to talk to
somebody, and I am there for 45 minutes.

I am the last person to
board, to board the plane.

They were about to close the door.

They're calling overhead.

I'm the last person.

And the reason is I did not put in
my son's information and to the ui,

the dashboard that I was presented
with never asked me to do that.

I, the, the teller, the person behind
the desk was, seemingly annoyed at me

'cause I didn't call them beforehand.

but there I am.

And, we had to reju all of our tickets
because the way that the plane is

arranged, there are two seats on either
side of the aisle, and because we have an

infant in lap, the weight distribution on
this particular aircraft was wrong because

there was an infant who weighs 20 pounds.

That 20 pounds was too much
for the right side of the

Ian Andersen: it all off.

Brandon Giella: so they
split all of us up.

So my 2-year-old is at
the front of the plane.

My wife is in the middle,
and I'm in the back.

My wife has the infant and they told me,
well, we can't do this kind of arrangement

'cause of this particular aircraft.

Like I'm supposed to know that.

So we go through this whole
rigmarole and I came to a

decision about my future travel.

The decision is I'm gonna buy a
private jet because I don't want

to deal with any of that anymore.

so that's a small story about human
design and thinking about the customer

journey and these little edge cases
that don't fit within the prescribed

either dashboards or checkout processes
or kiosks or lines or whatever it is to

buy a plane ticket to go from A to B.

And I think that's relevant for our
story today because we were talking

about, why loyalty planning should start
with the traveler and not the program.

Because often when we're designing
these kinds of things, we think

about the mechanics of the program
and not through the lens of the

traveler, and those should be flipped.

Granted, this is very hard to do
sometimes for certain, companies.

There's a lot of people involved.

There's.

Huge amounts of decisions that must
be made, but we are opening up the

conversation to talk about what
would it look like if we led with

the customer, the traveler first,
rather than the program first.

So with that, amuse bouch, Rachel,
I'm gonna turn it over to you.

Talk to us about this topic today.

I would love to hear what
your, your thoughts are here.

Rachel Satow: Yeah, before I
do that, I have a story of my

own that your story spurred.

so I recently booked trip, a trip to
New York, and I'm using points for my

ticket, but I wasn't going to, I didn't
have enough points to purchase the other

two tickets in my party, and the whole
experience was so annoying because I

had to do two different, transactions.

I had to do the one where
I utilized my points.

To purchase my ticket, and then I had
to go back in completely, like log

in, log out situation, and then go buy
the other two tickets with my card.

which was, you know, it was, I'm
not gonna name names, but it was a

major airline that, that experience
was, was what I, what I had for

when I was booking these tickets.

And I couldn't help but think.

This is, this is, this should be easier.

Why is it not easier?

And I think, you know, both
stories go really well with, with

what we're talking about today.

Today because loyalty teams have a
responsibility to think about what

the end user is going to experience
when interacting with their program.

Oftentimes loyalty teams will start
their planning with constraints.

You know, what are the points,
budgets, what are the tier thresholds,

what are the redemption rules, etc
But travelers like you and I, we

don't experience loyalty that way.

We experience the stress, we experience
the anticipation, the urgency,

the relief when we finally get on
the plane and we're ready to go.

So, I think both stories kind of, kind
of showcase the, the proof point here

that we're talking about, which is if
you are to start your planning with.

Whatever the intent is, whatever
the traveler goal is, whether that

be, you know, you are, looking to
increase some sort of feature usage.

Why aren't users utilizing that feature?

Think about why people aren't going,
going and utilizing certain things.

You wanna make sure that you're
planning with the end goal in mind.

And we've talked about this a little bit,
Ian, you in particular had mentioned it on

one of the last podcasts where you need to
think about what you want the end user to

be doing, what your end goal is, and then
identify the stopgaps that are preventing

them from actually doing those things.

Brandon Giella: That's right.

That's right, that's right.

One of the things that you, you
had mentioned in your notes is, you

know, thinking that that human beings
travelers are much more dynamic than

these, these programs often are.

Our stories illustrate that, but
then there's a way to reframe

this so that we think through the
traveler's lens, and there's a couple

of things mentioned here, which is.

Trip intent, decision
moments, emotional context.

Can you talk to me a
little bit about that?

And then Ian, I wanna hear your, your
thoughts as well on that segment, but

to talk about what are the, what are
the ways that we can be thinking about

that when, when we're thinking about
designing loyalty programs and, and, and

figuring out the business mechanics of
it, of course, but maybe there's some

pillars to be thinking about this year.

Rachel Satow: Yeah, I mean, I hold
that all of us are travelers, right?

So think of the experience that
you and I both just described.

When you are going about the process
of making, you know, certain goals

or, or KPIs for your program, or even
just introducing new features, et

cetera, I, I think it is worth taking
a beat and just thinking about the

experiences that you have with your own.

Travel journeys.

And what are the things that
you really enjoyed from either

your company or another company?

What are the things that, you know,
we're a pain in the butt to utilize?

when you, when we think about
the traveler intent, we know that

their goal is to go on the trip
to have a good time on their trip.

How can you enhance that?

How can you make sure that they're
engaging with the things that will make

their, their trip more memorable for them?

Brandon Giella: That's right.

That's.

Ian Andersen: I think, so this topic,
it's kind of at a nexus of like

several different issues throughout
that a lot of organizations have.

when we kind of first were spit balling
ideas and, and thinking about this

topic, Maybe think of, the problem

Rachel Satow: that,

Ian Andersen: companies have in keeping
their teams aligned as far as like.

often marketing can be pretty disconnected
from the product team, versus what

the sales team's doing versus, you
know, what operations are doing.

and, and getting those teams
aligned is essential, right?

For, for just sort of
a healthy organization.

you know, it might be useful
for marketing to know what.

The, the product roadmap
looks like, right?

So they have some idea
of, of, the messaging.

and the same goes with, your loyalty team.

You know, whoever's working on loyalty
on the product side needs to be

involved in the marketing process,
in the sales process, in, you know,

product planning and engineering
planning, and something else.

That might be a little weird
to articulate, but I think it

makes intuitive sense is loyalty
pro programs in its nature deal

with returning customers, right?

Like that's just the nature
of the loyalty program.

returning customers, obviously it varies
slightly percentage wise, industry

by industry, but returning customers.

Generally account for the vast
majority of revenue in an organization.

usually on the low side of like 60%,
sometimes, you know, 90-95 right?

Is repeat business, yet so much,
especially marketing, but often,

You know, sales or or other budgets
are geared towards new customer

acquisition rather than, getting and
maintaining healthy relationships

with re returning, customers.

there's sort of a, a, okay, we got them.

We're good now.

Like, you don't need to
keep nurturing that along.

loyalty programs are meant to
address that in, in part, right?

They're meant to keep.

That customer engagement, yet

Rachel Satow: yet

Ian Andersen: just a loyalty program
in itself isn't going to do that.

You know, the purpose of a loyalty
program is to offer special

discounts, deals, rewards, you know,
whatever to your customer base.

So.

Implicit in that is the
actual product itself, right?

So whether it's booking or the, the
actually going somewhere, the, the

transportation method or hotel or
whatever it is, if those are not up

to snuff, like it really undercuts the
entire point of having a loyalty program.

You know, and undercuts that,
the, that customer retention that

is generally so valuable to a
customer or to a, to a company.

You know, if that is, say more
than 50, even, say it's 50%,

you know, on the low end, 50% of
your revenue is repeat business.

Why wouldn't you do everything you
can to make your your customers happy?

You know, after that initial purchase,
you know, people have shown a, a

key theme of this podcast has been
kind of the historical nature of

loyalty of how people generally want
to be part of a loyalty program.

Not necessarily because the
program's so great people.

If you buy a product, you like
the product, you wanna just

stick with the product, right?

It's just easier, it's human nature.

Loyalty programs make that easier
and they help differentiate when

the, the market is, as, you know,
full as it is with with competitors.

So it's easier for you just to make
it nice user experience from beginning

to end for, for your loyalty program,
for those repeat customers, especially

the ones that you've, that value you
enough to join your loyalty program.

You know, it, it just makes intuitive
sense that you want to put the user

and customer experience at the heart
of, of what your loyalty program is.

The only reason it's there for, right.

It's to be a good customer experience.

So, so it's really has to be
involved in the, the product,

department's, plans and operations.

It's gotta be involved in the marketing.

It's gotta be involved in sales.

Sort of the whole, the
whole customer journey.

loyalty's gotta be a part of it just
so they're, they're getting the best

information from the other departments,
so they're involved in the planning.

If, if product's getting ready to launch
and you're like, wait a second, that might

be easy for a new customer, but it kind of
is a crappy experience for returning one.

That message needs to be put
into the organization so they

can make the best decisions.

Rachel Satow: Yeah.

Brandon Giella: I would argue that
cross-functional collaboration

is itself a, a, a challenge.

How do you surface all that
knowledge and coordinate?

And I mean, that, that is a,
that is a challenge, but the best

organizations in the world are
ones that do that really well.

Rachel Satow: Yeah, absolutely.

And I think when you think about
reframing through the traveler lens,

which is something that, you know,
we, we would definitely recommend,

traditional loyalty programs or the
planning sequence, they define the tiers,

they define the earn and burn rules.

They then layer offers on top of that.

But that is an assumption that
loyalty is rational and predictable.

And in 2026, that is that
all of that's out the window.

so when you think about the traveler's
perspective there, like there.

Going to compare across platforms
instantly because of all of the tools

that they have at their finger fingertips.

These days, they're going
to book closer to departure.

We're seeing that with our
own data, and they're going to

switch brands when brands can't.

Especially from a repeat visitors or,
or, or, member perspective, if brands

can't surface what they're looking for,
when they're looking for it, and that it,

it drives, you know, real consequences.

Like you have a, a huge
disruption in your booking flow.

You've got a great
rewards catalog perhaps.

There's no assistance in showcasing
how they can redeem those things.

It's it, you know, it goes
unutilized when you don't think

about it from the traveler mindset.

Ian Andersen: And

Brandon Giella: meat on the on that
is, I'm one datum of course, but my

experience that I had a few weeks ago.

I'm like, I don't know if I want
to keep booking with this airline.

You know?

It's like, not that anything was
particularly bad, it was just like it.

I got stuck there for, it took an
hour longer than it really should

Rachel Satow: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Giella: and I just
didn't, I just didn't like it.

I want

Ian Andersen: well, and to your point of
it not being particularly bad when the

marketplace is flooded with competition.

Brandon Giella: I know.

Ian Andersen: Not particularly bad
is a major differentiator, right?

Like, and what, what it, it's
hard to understand as far as a.

From a planning perspective of
why companies get this wrong so

often is, say we're starting a
brand new program from scratch.

We have to build our, not only the nuts
and bolts of the loyalty program, but

the user interface for where they're
booking or, you know, whatever it is.

We have to do that anyway no matter what.

So you can either do it from the customer
perspective and take that into account.

To begin with or do it from
the program perspective.

And then you sort of get
what you get on the output.

And either way, you have to do basically
the same amount of work, right?

So it's not any harder to just do it
from your customer perspective, you know,

have somebody on the team literally play.

A difficult customer, whether it's, you
know, they're not technically savvy,

whether they're, you know, very picky,
whether they need their handheld every

step of the way, whatever it is, and
just ha have 'em role play that role

and build the, the program including
the user interface platform using, you

know, the customer service, perspective.

You know, whatever it
is, have 'em build it.

From that direction, you're putting
the same amount of work in, and

you've already taken all that,
that, those issues into account.

I mean, Brandon, like to your
point, to your story, like you're

hardly this weird edge case, right?

People have lap children all the time.

Like it should be part of the game plan
to be like, okay, even if it's, you know,

5%, 10% or whatever, that's a lot of
people, Who are going to have a lap child?

Like how, how that question needs to come
up at some point and what that experience

is should be taken into account.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

You know, security and engineering
teams have what they call red team.

And so they build into the process
before they, they, they publish something

to production, that the red team is
gonna go in and try to break something.

They're gonna hack it, they're
gonna, they're gonna try to break it.

They're gonna overload the system
somehow, or, you know, so I think,

having a, a, a step in the process
where you have somebody try to break it.

I volunteer as tribute.

I will bring my toddler.

She's gonna be smooshing her
bunny all over the floor while I'm

talking to the person at the, the.

Behind the counter.

And now granted this is, the booking
and boarding process and not the loyalty

process, but those things are related.

I feel more loyal to a brand
that has a lot of this customer

experience kind of sorted out.

And granted it is, it is a challenge.

It is not easy to get right.

But, I think, I think what's
what maybe is a useful heuristic.

There's this book that I read,
I listened to a few years ago,

called The Power of Moment.

By Chip and Dan Heath, and they talk about
some of these things and thinking about

the customer journey and how you can,
create a memorable moment that leaves

a lasting impression on the buyer, on
the customer, the traveler in this case.

So what they talk about is one of
their, this is a, a AI summary from

Google, by the way, 'cause it's been
a while since I listened to this book.

But, the, the core idea it says
is creating defining moments.

Which are brief, memorable, meaningful
experiences that shape our lives and

memories, and so you can design those.

This is not something that just happens.

You can design them in the system.

And so it says there's
four elements to do that.

Elevation, insight, pride, and connection.

And what they mean by that is elevation
is you make it rise above the ordinary.

So this was an ordinary experience
for me in, in traveling.

Say I was just going, you know, it
was a, it was a Christmas vacation,

you know, and I had my family with me.

Pretty normal flight typically, but maybe
there was something in there that, that.

Could have made it special.

Like they could have handed me a
key chain, you know, or something

that had a Christmas tree on it.

I don't, you know.

But, and then there's insights.

You make it meaningful by you,
by sparking a sudden realization.

And then there's pride where
you make it feel significant.

It's something, this is
something that's important to me.

It's Christmas, you know, for example.

And then there's connection.

You make it shared through shared meaning,
relationships and things like that.

And then they've got this, this, a
rule called the the peak end rule.

So think about the peak experience
of that journey and think about the

end of that journey to leave that
kind of impression as they're exiting

the, the customer journey, they get
to their destination, for example.

And then they also talk about flipping
pits, which is turning negative

experiences into positive ones
through great service and recovery.

So I had this experience and it would've
been great if the customer service person

behind the desk was like, you know what?

I'm sorry.

This is so hard.

Instead of.

Almost getting frustrated with me and
saying, you should have called, you should

have called last week to like talk, call
the airline next time ahead of time.

Which I'm thinking in my head,
I'm gonna be on the phone for

two hours talking about this.

I got two little kids and a business.

I can't do this.

You know, so anyway, so there's some, some
moments there that I think, it's kind of

forms this framework that may be helpful.

I'm, I'm curious what you guys
have, you, have you read that book?

Have you thought about this kind
of like, thing like that, maybe

a framework that that's useful?

Ian Andersen: I've never read that.

It, it does sound interesting though.

I, I just googled it and to save later,
but the, it does bring up the point.

I think kind of going back to my
last point of this really needs

to be plugged into sort of every
part of your business, right?

Like the customer service aspect of
things is just another touch point

that needs to be involved in the.

in the loyalty and, and vice versa,
planning and, and prep because, nothing

helps or hurts a business more with repeat
customers than customer service, right?

Like more directly, everyone has
horror stories of dealing with customer

service, whether they're on, you know,
the phone for, for five hours or, but.

Often the stories you hear, are very
good, experiences with, with customer

service, you know, I just, for example,
we went skiing a few years ago.

My son, we know we rented.

The, I'm not gonna buy them
new stuff 'cause their shoe

size changes every 10 minutes.

But, so, so we always rent equipment.

we got up to the mountain and, you
know, shame on us for not necessarily

checking immediately, but it turns out
the place we rented from gave them two

right boots, like right foot boots.

Brandon Giella: that's the worst.

Ian Andersen: I, you know, I was pissed.

The mountain was booked,
like it was really busy.

You know, they have the rental
place at the mountain, but

that's, that line is always crazy.

So I never, never go there.

but I called the place that, that we
had rented from and they were like.

Just so ap, you know, we're so sorry.

They're like, give me, you know, five
minutes, let me call you right back.

they immediately called back.

They had called the mountain rental
Shop and were like, get these

people to the front of your line.

Give them new boots and then, you know,
get 'em out of there and like, we'll

handle it on the back end kind of thing.

They call me back, told me what
was gonna happen, like I will rent

from them every single time we
go there for the rest of my life.

Right?

Like.

Just that one experience that, and
we'd rented from them before, like,

and I'd never had a, a bad, experience
to begin with, but like, just the way

you take care of problems, you just
created like a very loyal customer.

And I know they're not staying in
business because of my, my business

alone, but if I am just some random
nobody and they're treating me.

You know that well, when, when mistakes
happen, like I get it, mistakes happen.

And I think most people understand that.

You know, I don't think they
intentionally tried to screw us over

there, but, you know, mistake happened.

They jumped on it and
fixed it immediately.

You've created an extremely loyal
customer, and if you do that enough times,

your business is fine and healthy, right?

Rachel Satow: Yeah, I think your,
I think your example is, you know,

really speaking to the fact that
loyalty drivers are emotional first, an

economic second.

They didn't, they said to you,
we'll handle it on the back end.

Doesn't matter.

Get them to the front of the line

so that they can have a better experience
and get out of the way like it truly is.

Loyalty drivers are emotional
first and economic second.

And programs often, I mean, to
your earlier point, programs

often optimize for lifetime value
for a customer, lifetime value,

whereas Travelers and, and you
know, customers in general optimize

for this moment, this trip, not.

10 trips ago, not 10 trips from now.

It's this trip that matters to them.

so Brandon, to your, to your point
regarding, you know, mapping some moments

that matter, that's the first, that's the
first step that any program should do.

In, in trying to reframe for the traveler
lens, what are the moments that matter

most to our members, to our travelers
are, what are the, the, the points where

there's high emotion, high friction,
high consequence, these moments.

Are often outside of
traditional loyalty dashboards.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

That's right.

That's right.

It, it really is.

It, it's not thinking
about perks and points.

It's thinking about the, the, the real
human being that is experiencing this

journey, going through this process.

Again, having a red team, having a
secret shopper, having somebody go in

and do this, get feedback, you know,
customer feedback through, you know,

obviously like standard forms and phone
calls and things like that, but customer

service is a huge component of that,

huge component of that.

And I love Ian's, your, your, your story.

Rachel Satow: I mean, even if you
don't have a a, a brick and mortar.

For this, for, for your program,
you know, you can still find

the gaps in behavioral data

and in service data and, you, you can
find those moments that matter in the data

that your program is typically collecting
as well as on the ground moments.

Brandon Giella: that's right.

And And I have a bet I
would be willing to bet.

And I'll caveat this by saying this is
a privileged thing to say, and I'm at

this point in my life where I want this.

Not everybody is, but I would be willing
to pay more for a better experience across

the board, whether it's a coffee shop
down the street, it's a software tool.

Or it's a loyalty program or an
airline ticket or a hotel or whatever.

I would be willing add 20% to it,
30%, but I want it to be a delight.

To go and do my life.

I was reading this thing the other day
that somebody was like, they were talking

about an immigrant, that they were trying
to help them do some things, related

to work and, and life and some things.

And this person, this immigrant was
saying, I feel like you have to have

a PhD to get anything done in America.

And I was like, no kidding.

It does feel like that so often, whether
it's scheduling a doctor's appointment or

whatever, it's like, I got a, there's five
phone calls, 10 forms, a legal waiver.

I had to sign a legal waiver
at a restaurant the other

day because they had a, a.

Play place for the kids.

And I literally had to sit there and it
was like a 10, 15 page legal document,

and I had to sign it before they would
let me do anything in the restaurant.

It's a restaurant.

Ian Andersen: like, like
everyone as a litigation expert.

Right on.

Yeah.

Personal, personal injury

Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's a unique thing to America.

But, but the point is, I, I just, I, I'm
willing to pay the money to make this

easy and I, I, I'm not alone in that.

I think.

Ian Andersen: No, I think
most people, I mean otherwise.

frontier and Spirit would
dominate the market, right?

Like, I mean, there not to like
call anyone out there, like there's

very good places for budget options,
for travel, for, for everything.

But like the majority of people.

I have an expectation of customer service.

If your business model is discount, well,
I, I understand I'm going to be getting

less, less of a customer experience.

but if you are kind of in that,
whatever your sort of tier level is as

an organization with your competitors.

There is an expectation of customer
service, and I think you're exactly right.

I think, I think most people are
willing to spend a little bit more

to know that they have, they're gonna
have a better customer experience and,

and I don't even think it necessarily
needs to be that much better.

Right.

It's just, I know it's gonna be, I, I
know if I go to a different rental place.

The next time we go skiing, it's
probably gonna be about the same.

I know that if there's a problem,
the other company, they might not

handle it as o well, but they'll
handle it, you know how somewhere.

But just because I can, I have a
certain expectation now, right.

that, that business is gonna
get, get my, my patronage right.

So, I think you're, you're exactly right.

Brandon Giella: That's right.

Well, as we kinda wrap up this discussion,
we went on a few little tangents there.

My doing apologies.

what do you guys, any kind of takeaways
or anything to leave, some of these

leaders with that are thinking about
their loyalty programs this year?

Thinking about designing, thinking about
their overall business, especially in

the travel space, but, any other kind
of closing thoughts or final words?

Rachel Satow: I mean, I think, you know,
we're in, we're at the start of the year.

It's a worthwhile activity if
you didn't do it at the end of.

This year, do it now in Q1
before things really get crazy.

And take a moment to walk
through your customer journey.

Highlight the moments that are those
high emotion moments for your, for your

users, and showcase how you react to them

in any given moment at any
given stage, whether that's

pre-trip in the middle of it.

Post trip.

However, however, you know, those moments
show up and then, you know, take note that

creating moments that matter doesn't mean
that you need to offer more discounts.

It, it doesn't mean that you need to,
to reward certain things, and sometimes

it does show up as as customer service.

Ian and I a while ago read a book
called The Cults of the Customer

that goes into all of the different
experiences a customer can go into,

when interacting with your business,
when interacting with the individuals

who represent your business.

and I think making sure that those
touch points are mapped out alongside

the high emotion moments, will be
really worthwhile in identifying

where your loyalty program can kind of
step into, to enhance the experience.

Brandon Giella: That's right.

That's right.

Ian Andersen: Yeah, I think, it's,
it's more of a mindset than a major

shift or a major reorganization.

Maybe that's the way
to think about is, is.

We're going to have to build a
product and a user interface and

payment platform and everything else.

Anyway, we ought to do
all this stuff anyway.

How do we do it?

Like how do we look at building it
so it's not necessarily changing

operations significantly, just
how do we go about planning?

And if you can, start.

With the, the customer and think about
them sort of every step of the way.

you know, that, that really
helps out on the back end of that

process.

and it, it helps across the board.

And then just my point earlier of get
everyone involved, having a working team

of, of people who meet once every other
week, once a week, once a month, whatever.

Have a working team from various
departments who, even if all they

do is sit around and BS and talk
about what their department's

doing, like that's a value add.

You know, just keep everybody
in the loop of what's going on.

and, and you know that, that
helps across the departments.

You'll never know.

I, I remember when I first
started at Switch Fly.

reaching out to one of our product
teams, you know, this was years ago.

but just sort of like we were talking
about something else and they just

kind of casually threw out a new
feature that had been added to the

platform that I had no idea, existed.

And it was like, that's incredible.

Like I wanna write four blog
posts and put out some ads and

everything about this specific thing.

Please tell me the more time, you know,
next time you have other things like that.

You know, and so often teams
are so disconnected, that they

don't know what's going on.

And, and think of your loyalty team, as
one of the teams that need to be involved.

Brandon Giella: right.

Yeah, that's great advice.

Again, you know, easier said than
done, but I, I think it is one of the

core things that businesses should
take on, especially in this travel,

travel space because it is at root,
it's about hospitality, it's about

people feeling welcome at ease and
making sure that they have a wonderful

trip and, Again, you know, easier
said than done, but really, really

core, and, and very, very important.

Yeah.

Rachel, Ian, thank you
so much for your time.

Thank you for this topic.

I think it's fascinating and, and
I hope that the stories we've been

telling will inspire folks to, to
think about those high moments for

customers as going through their journey
and it can really make a difference.

So thank you both and

Ian Andersen: Thanks Brenda.

Rachel Satow: Thanks Brandon.

Ian Andersen: Bye.