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Join Talisman, an award-winning, full-service agency igniting memorable partnerships & collaborations across sports, entertainment & web3 where they host industry leaders to unapologetically deconstruct the business of sports.
Welcome to today's episode of the Playbook podcast, where we dive into strategies, insights, and the untold stories behind the business of sport. Joining us, in the studio is someone who actually truly needs no introduction in the world of sports and brand marketing. A leader who has not only shaped some of the most iconic sponsorship strategies, but has redefined how brands connect to fans globally. Tom Fox has led leadership roles at powerhouse brands like Nike and Gatorade, where his visionary thinking and expertise turn sponsorships into cultural movements. He's been at the forefront of the sports ecosystem.
Dharpan Randhawa:He's, blended innovation with timeless principles, for fan engagement. Today, he continues to be a sought after voice in the industry, guiding brands and organizations to think bigger, bolder, and smarter. Tom is also a adviser to the Talisman Agency. He's a close friend. He's a legend.
Dharpan Randhawa:I don't know, Tom. It's an honor to have you on the show. How how was that intro?
Tom Fox:For I was gonna say for for the record, I'd like it to be noted. I did not write that, but, some some of it was actually pretty accurate, Darce. No. It's a it's a pleasure pleasure to be with you. Great.
Dharpan Randhawa:Well, let's get stuck in because nobody likes a, a long podcast, and and I know you're you're very, very busy. So, Tom, you've worked for some very successful endemic sports brands like Gatorade and Nike, and their sponsorship strategies seem to have changed just a little over the years. Why do you think that is?
Tom Fox:Yeah. I think, you know, certainly both of those brands being endemic, I think when you when you hit on something that that works within sport, I think, yeah, you know, naturally you wanna stick with it. I think in both cases, both brands built the their entire business around the concept of authenticity. And when they approached sports, they approached it purely from authenticity and being authentic. You know, give you a few examples.
Tom Fox:I can remember, early in my in my Gatorade career, one of the things I think people didn't see, about Gatorade Sports Marketing Strategy, certainly everything on the sidelines, the cups, the coolers, you know, all the all the branding was very visible. But what people didn't see behind the scenes was the commitment to ensuring that we always have the best functional product from a scientific perspective. So there was a facility called the Gatorade Sports Science Institute. We invested in it. We were continually either doing research there or doing research at other universities that were partners of ours, constantly
Dharpan Randhawa:looking for ways
Tom Fox:to either change the of ours, constantly looking for ways to either change the product, make new types of products, and and really make sure that whatever an athlete was using that we provided was absolutely the best product they could put in their body. That was not visible to the consumer, but it enabled us to continue to sign the types of sponsorship deals that we did and fight off much bigger competition. You've got to remember Gatorade was a a beverage owned by a midwestern food company and we weren't Coca Cola and we weren't PepsiCo prior to the acquisition in 2,000 and 1. It was because we had the best product and we'd made that commitment. Nike was exactly the same.
Tom Fox:If you ever walked into some of the areas with, on campus where they were doing research and development, where athletes were showing up and testing product, actual athletes that were under contract, you know, taking images and and, and molds of their feet and trying to determine how to deliver the best product. I think both of those brands, grounded in authenticity, used sport, not to say something about their businesses, that that wasn't true, but really to reinforce what was true. So we found something that worked, in both of those businesses. And I think the reason it hasn't changed, quite frankly, is because it was grounded in authenticity.
Dharpan Randhawa:Yeah. That's a good point. And and we hear that word a lot these days, brands trying to be authentic, rights holders trying to be authentic. And it's I believe it's harder to do these days when you've got a younger demographic set who have different values. They use technologies, different ways.
Dharpan Randhawa:The world is morphing. You know, they're interested in politics and and and and hip hop and fashion and sport. And in the middle of all of that is their authentic self. So how do you market to people like that? So I I Yeah.
Tom Fox:I act actually, yeah, I also think the rights holders have a have a role to play there. I mean, I I look at, Emirates, which was the the shirt sponsor at Arsenal. And I look at how long that partnership has existed. Right? That partnership has existed for as long as it has.
Tom Fox:You know, while Chelsea have had multiple shirt sponsors, Man United have had multiple shirt sponsors. A lot of other big clubs across Europe have chopped and changed because the rights holders have said, we want more money. We want this. We want you to be able to do this. And I think they never really based it in what was going to work for that individual sponsor.
Tom Fox:And Emirates' long commitment to Arsenal is both a a a testament to a strategy that is working for Emirates and the commitment of the rights holder in Arsenal to make sure that everything they do together continues to drive Emirates to to greater and greater success. And I think the rights holders have a a responsibility in their quest for, you know, bigger numbers. I think they've lost sight of the fact that ultimately it's gotta work for the individual brand. And I I take it as a great source of pride that that that Arsenal had continued to to deliver for 1 single brand sponsor. That's very rare in today's market.
Tom Fox:So, yes, it's, fragmentation of the audience. Yes. It's a younger audience looking to influencers, looking to different messages. But I also think it's right to holders potentially, in some cases, not necessarily understanding what brands really need to be successful and not valuing sort of that consistency and longevity.
Dharpan Randhawa:Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense. The sports ecosystem has largely been funded by brands, you know, as we've just spoken about, either through direct sponsorship or advertising. With viewing behavior changing, what what would you be thinking about if you were hitting marketing, you know, for a big major brand like an Emirates?
Tom Fox:Yeah. You know, it's it's such a, I think, a really interesting period of time in the industry. You know, you hit on it. There's young audiences are increasingly looking to to different, forms of media to get their information. I have a 24 year old son.
Tom Fox:He doesn't watch live sports programming. He watches highlights. He would say he's an NHL fan. I'll get him to go to a game a couple times a year, but will he ever watch a game live on television? No.
Tom Fox:Now I think he's fairly typical. And I think what what the industry and the numbers are sort of bearing out is that, live viewership, from a young audience is declining. Right? The average age of of fans watching live sports is increasing. I think that creates a massive challenge, for the brands that have typically decided to advertise in those in those sports and try to reach the the consumer and reach their audience through live programming.
Tom Fox:I think it's becoming less and less efficient. I think it was always somewhat inefficient. Right? When you're buying, when you're buying, units and you're buying advertising within live sports programming, there's still 30, 40% of the people that are probably watching that game that you're paying for from a CPM basis that aren't necessarily your target audience. So I don't think it's ever been the most efficient, but I think it's really losing its efficiency, especially to a young audience.
Tom Fox:I think, you know, gambling and fantasy continue to drive people to to those sports and into the live, to the live product. But I I think it's a very interesting time that I think, leagues are having to figure out, okay, how do we continue to maintain, and drive the revenue that we've historically delivered? I think, you know, you're looking at baseball with a very aging fan base. Thinking for the first time about how they cut a television deal that actually grows in value, I think they're going to have to pull local inventory and create very different looking package in order to do that. I think on an apples to apples comparison, I think baseball's probably looking at a probably a a decline on their on their next television deal.
Tom Fox:That's very, very difficult, I think, and very unique, I think, for sports because it's always operated on a growth model. So if I'm a brand, I'm thinking to myself, okay. I've I've typically parked tens if not 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars into the live broadcast to try to reach my audience. I'm I'm becoming far less effective in doing that. So what do I do?
Tom Fox:Well, I start to look for where that audience is going, and where they're going is to shorter form content. I think that can be sports content packaged differently. Live game, I think is a challenge. And in that shorter form programming, the question becomes, how do you brand it? How do you create, enough association between your brand and that property?
Tom Fox:But I also think then you start to look at influencers. I think athletes can be terrific influencers. I think introducing, the fan base, the younger fan base to those athletes as influencers, promoting not only what they do within their sport, but what else they do in their life, I think is very interesting to a younger audience. So, you know, it it's a long winded answer. But I think, essentially, if I'm a brand, I've got to look, and try to follow the fan into those places that they're going.
Tom Fox:And I think the model's being disruptive because that's not live programming anymore.
Dharpan Randhawa:Spot on. I mean, you know, as you know, we're at the forefront of a lot of these conversations, especially around Formula 1 lately. And, you know, you touched on what we call micro moments in sport. And, you know, if you were to ask a young male or female, if they like you know, what they liked about the the the Melbourne Grand Prix or the Monaco Grand Prix, you you you you'll often find that they talk about the micro moments. Oh, when when Lando did this or when Lewis did that, off track or when, you know, when DJ Khaled, when he walked on the grid or so these micro moments are also becoming so important for rights holders to to capture.
Dharpan Randhawa:And I think, you know, you touched another good point there. Athletes who are creator athletes instead of people who curate other people's content, that create their own content are the ones that are really standing out and and and making money off the track, off the field as well. And
Tom Fox:And amplifying those moments that you described, I think, then becomes the exercise. Right? It's less about, I'm gonna put a a broadcast in front of your face for 3 hours, and I'm gonna push a bunch of advertising images in front of you. If the moments they like are those moments, you know, that you described those micro moments, then amplifying them through social media and and and trying to find ways to attach your brand to those micro moments becomes the marketing exercise. Right?
Tom Fox:Less passive. Here's my brand image. I'm gonna put it on a flag. I'm gonna put it on a car. I'm gonna put it within advertising.
Tom Fox:How do I then take that and and build on it? Right? If I am on the car and you are seeing my brand in action in Formula 1, how do I then create micro moments or leverage the micro moments that are happening and elevate them? I think that's absolutely right. It's powerful.
Dharpan Randhawa:This next question is gonna determine if we end the podcast here or we keep going. Is sports still a good bet for brands looking to connect Yeah. To their consumers and growth?
Tom Fox:Look, I, you know, it still does drive a lot of interest. I think I had somebody tell me once politics, religion, music, and sport were the 4 passion points that people got excited about. Right? I, you know, I I don't think, you're gonna monetize religion. Clearly, politics has already been monetized, but I do I still think sport has, tremendous value.
Tom Fox:People still get passionate about about it. It's still tribal. I think what's changing is, sort of the nature of sponsorship, what works and what doesn't. You've just described, I think, within f one, these micro moments or even in all sports that that a consumer looking for quicker short hits of content really gravitate towards. That that's just a challenge for marketers.
Tom Fox:I think marketers, you know, from the beginning of time have always had to deal with a changing landscape, and they've always had to adapt. I can remember, you know, P&G was the 1st big major company to start to shift money from television into online advertising. I think they did it a decade before most anybody else was thinking about it. But they spent more money than anybody else. They were looking to drive more growth for more products than anybody else.
Tom Fox:So it was natural that they'd be looking for that innovation. I think there are less sort of big hits of innovation around how brands need to begin looking at at sponsorship to make it work. I think it gets sliced into smaller pieces. I think you've gotta be smarter. You've gotta be more creative.
Tom Fox:I think it's increasingly involving new and different sports. Right? We all used to talk growing up about the big four. I don't think, you know, that necessarily exists anymore. I think, you've got to start to appeal to the long tail.
Tom Fox:I think some sports are better at appealing to a young audience that wants quicker hits, shorter format than than, you know, potentially a college football game that takes 4 hours. That's jammed packed with commercials. There's other things emerging, and I think it's always been a marketer's job to adapt and to really get to the end result, which is how do I associate my brand with something that people, care about and how do I leverage that to grow it? That's always been the challenge for a long time. You know, passive signage, advertising within broadcast, that worked.
Tom Fox:A lot I think every marketer in the world understands that doesn't work to the same extent that it used to, and it's leading to new and creative, ways of of going about it. I think sport is still a passion point. I still think it works, but I think it means you have to approach it differently.
Dharpan Randhawa:Yeah. And and, you know, the more you you you push savvy marketers to innovate and and a lot of them are innovating and they're doing great jobs. And and and the the rights holders are also catching up, whether that's with web 3 or or or different types of of of technology integration. Then the bigger challenge comes along is, well, how do we measure this? I mean, that's another topic.
Dharpan Randhawa:That's another podcast on its own. But I think we're having a lot of those conversations too. Man, we we packaged up all these amazing micro moments, all these amazing short form content and all of these amazing activation. Now we've gotta go and report this to the board and justify what we've just done. Hey.
Dharpan Randhawa:Can you guys help us do that? So so, you know, that's that's a that's a that that's happening, then then that's a good thing for everybody.
Tom Fox:Yeah. And I think the number of rights holders that are starting every conversation now with, tell me about your business. Yes. Tell me what you need to be successful. What keeps you up at night?
Tom Fox:Who are your big competitors? What are the challenges that you have as a brand? The the the number of rights holders that are starting conversations in that way versus when I started in the business in the late eighties, which was, hey, I've got these 15 things I'm trying to sell and I'm gonna try to force you into one of those industries already evolved Yeah. Massively in that way. And I know that's certainly the way that the talisman has approached, has approached it having sat in, you know, on meetings with you.
Tom Fox:Tell me about your business because quite frankly, I'm not gonna sell you something that's not gonna work for you. We did this very effectively at Arsenal, and it was interesting to me how surprising it was to the brands. We would say to them, you know, how can we help you? We're not here to sell you anything. We may not be a good fit for you.
Tom Fox:You may name you may not be a good fit Yeah. For us. Let's find out what the common ground is because I know what I have that is of value. I know how I can best position your brand, to our fan base. You know what is gonna drive your business.
Tom Fox:Let's see if those two things match up. I think the number of right soldiers approaching the business that way, you know, has changed dramatically in the last decade, and I think that's a real positive. Yeah.
Dharpan Randhawa:Yeah. No. For sure. One of one of our favorite questions to ask a brand very early on is when your customers don't buy from you, why don't they? And it's a real Good question.
Dharpan Randhawa:Big question. So anyway, let's move on. So you you've been spending quite a bit of time, Tom, with in in in the capital markets. It seems like there's an influx of private capital coming into sports. You know, it seems to be an at an all time high.
Dharpan Randhawa:We're hearing a lot of these deals being announced every 2nd week. What what what what do you think is driving the interest, in all of this?
Tom Fox:I think it's everything we've been talking about. I think it's, it's a desire to try to understand, what is going to continue to move the needle for brands. Right? I think there's a lot of mature sports, that that that have a very changing business model as we've been talking about with live the the live audience getting older, the live audience becoming less important to to a key demographic. And I think what that what that really, leads to is new solutions for brands.
Tom Fox:What what what begins to work better for a brand looking to connect with their consumer? And I think that is the slicing of the sports business, this passion point into smaller pieces that are still highly relevant. I think it led, it led to the growth of of esports. There was a huge number of of of, kids. My son was and is one of them that liked to play these games online.
Tom Fox:They understood they were highly social. They were highly competitive. You could get very good at them. And there was live opportunities around, you know, a gated attraction for the Overwatch League. So that led to, I think, a big influx of investment in esports.
Tom Fox:I don't think that worked out because I don't think fundamentally, I don't think it was sold properly. I don't think the concept of franchises representing cities worked as well, or really worked at all in in in an esports, environment. And I think that audience wasn't necessarily looking to be packaged in a way that traditional sport had been packaged. There's still plenty of people playing. There's still opportunities to monetize.
Tom Fox:I just don't think it was was necessarily structured and and sold the right way. Now I look at all of the new sports that are coming on. I watched, you know, the the golf event that Tiger and his crew started. I think it's it's interesting. It's fascinating.
Tom Fox:You know? Great event. I don't find it as compelling as live golf. But look, you know, it's it's everything we've been talking about. It involves technology.
Tom Fox:It's shorter format. It's confined. It's in an indoor space. It's, you know, there's there's a lot about that. There's moments that are created because the players are miked.
Tom Fox:So those micro moments can then be leveraged on behalf of the sponsor. So there's a reason that has been created. Right? There's a reason LiveGolf was created and why there's a shotgun start and why that event doesn't take as much time. There's a lot of money trying to understand, okay, if viewing patterns and consumer behavior is changing, you know, and there's certainly ways within the existing sports to address that.
Tom Fox:But what else is out there that's capturing people's attention? Right? So, you know, women's soccer. You know, soccer does not contain the commercial load. There's not the breaks in the game.
Tom Fox:A soccer match lasts 2 hours. I think that's more on trend for a young audience. So both, you know, Premier League and International Soccer has grown in the US. NBC's done a great job of doing that. But women's soccer is growing on the back of that too because I think it it fits a variety of trends, but one of which is sort of the change in viewership.
Tom Fox:So I think, you know, private equity recognizes sports as one of 4 passion points that that humans will always gravitate around and that there's new, and interesting formats being created around it, that need access to capital to grow. And, I that's what I find fascinating about what's happening in the industry right now.
Dharpan Randhawa:Yeah. Spot on. I mean, as you know, we're, we've we've got Talisman Ventures as well where we're helping to deploy capital into innovative sports properties as well. And one of the things that, you know, to to to chime in to answer the same question I asked you, I think it's also savvy investors are looking at it as as as diversified assets as well. So you've got sports franchises increasingly offering ancillary revenue streams, you know, real estate investments now have come into play, entertainment and media are coming into play, selling media content is coming into play, and and also the fan economy.
Dharpan Randhawa:We're looking at opportunities to to monetize fan bases like we've never had the opportunity to do before, whether that's a direct to consumer model, merchandising, tokenization of different assets. It's the inventory pool and the and the way you can monetize a football club or a Formula 1 team is radically different, and a a savvy investor would would would see that. And and that to me is is an exciting exciting And
Tom Fox:you have to you have to have access to the first party consumer data to do that, and sports has come very late to that. Right? Many articles written about how a lot of that first party data and the the consumer relationship was farmed out to suppliers like Ticketmaster. But I can remember sitting in the Premier League shareholder meeting. I wanna say it was 2010, 2011.
Tom Fox:And, you know, we were negotiating, television agreements. And one of the things that we, along with with others, you know, Tom Werner, I think was very vocal at Liverpool, were asking for was, as we were cutting pay TV deals in parts of the world like China, you know, and Southeast Asia that were going through sort of pay subscription platforms, we wanted to get access to that data. We wanted to know how many people were watching Arsenal play, on Saturday in various markets so that we could and we wanted to know who they were so that we could begin marketing directly to them. That wasn't something the powers that be at the time were prepared to ask the broadcasters to provide. And I think it's, you know, I I just read an article the other day.
Tom Fox:That's going to be, an important source of negotiation. You know, if the rights holders are gonna if the rights holders are gonna ask for that information, the platforms are going to give them that first party data. That's that's an exchange of real value. But I think that has to happen to your point because monetizing that consumer requires that you understand who they are. Amazon sort of game over in in that space.
Tom Fox:I think sports have the ability to begin to capture more of that, and you have to have it. And I think that's going to be a big source of of, negotiation in the future.
Dharpan Randhawa:There's been a ton of hype around the CFP format this year. Do you think the changes in college sports are positive?
Tom Fox:You know, I used to having lived and and worked internationally for as long as I did, you know, it was the source of pride when I would tell people there's one place in the world where higher education is paired with high level sport. That was college athletics in the United States. That that's gone. You know, and unfortunately, there wasn't structure built in the beginning around it So that when NIL started to happen and when money started coming in that there were guidelines and rules. I I think the transfer portal is, to a lot of purists, completely understandable.
Tom Fox:When when a coach can't drive a recruit or an existing player home because that's an inducement, when a coach can't buy a kid who doesn't have enough money to eat food so that he's, you know, prepared for practice the next day, That's a failing of the NCAA. So it's perfectly understandable that when you're paying coaches $8,000,000 a year, you're gonna raise the the issue of why aren't the the the the players or why why aren't the real talent getting getting compensated in this way? So I understand it. It's inevitable. I lament that that it's happened without some type of structure around it.
Tom Fox:Do I think it's good for college sport? I think it's it's it's never good to destroy something of real value that a brand has that that may not necessarily be be, well understood or or monetized. I talked a little bit before about Gatorade's, professional marketing, all of the things we did within the scientific community. Those were critical to the business. Right?
Tom Fox:And when you lose those, you lose something very important. So they're monetizing college sports right now. Everybody's raving about it, But you've lost something. You've lost the ability to say we are the only place where higher education merges with sport at the highest level. I know there will be naysayers that will say, wow.
Tom Fox:That was never happening anyway. Players were coming in and it was 1 and done or 2 years. Sure. But there was the appearance that college sport was different. Now college sport to me, and I think to to sports marketers and to investors like Mark Lasry, who are talking about buying 51% of various college programs.
Tom Fox:It's a feeder program for the NFL, not only practically for talent, but but as a business. Right? It's basically, you know, minor league NFL. And, okay, it it's, you know, you're maximizing enterprise value. You've got people like Mark and Avenue Capital and others that are looking to maybe make that investment into it.
Tom Fox:So there's gonna be a tremendous amount of interest. But something was lost there and nobody speaks for that thing that was lost. And I'm not sure we fully understand what it was. So again, maybe a bit pollyannaish, and a bit naive on my point of view. I always I always liked that part of college sports, and it's gone.
Dharpan Randhawa:Last question before we wrap up. Yeah. This one's a little bit close to home for us as a business. So women's volleyball in the US has been experiencing a meteoric rise in recent years, both at sort of the collegiate level and and also professionally with record breaking attendance, massive TV ratings, and sort of heightened fan engagement. We saw what happened in Nebraska as well, with with that attendance.
Dharpan Randhawa:It was massive. So so what do you think, mate, is driving the surge in popularity for women's volleyball? And and how can the sport capitalize on this insane momentum to establish, you know, a long term foothold in the crowded US sports market?
Tom Fox:Yeah. Well, for first of all, I have sort of personal interest in it. My my partner of 8 years has 2 daughters that played division 1 college, and her oldest played professionally in Switzerland in Basel. And she had to leave America to go play in Europe because that's where all the good volleyball was being played at the time. I think you gotta ask yourself, why is it suddenly becoming so popular?
Tom Fox:And I think it's because, the game translates so well. What what women's volleyball does to make it look very similar to the men's game, is they lower the net so that the most important play in volleyball, the spike, is, you know, is in play for women in the same way it is for men. Right? I think that is a huge advantage. So it it reminds me a little bit of of the LPGA.
Tom Fox:I love watching women's golf because all they have to do the only thing that women don't do is hit the ball consistently as far as the men, but they're incredible golfers in their own right. So if you shorten the golf course up, the average golfer can look at at at at at women's game and still relate to it and still appreciate how good they are. I think the same is true, of women's volleyball. And I think, you know, you look at the WNBA, which has been around for a long time, and you wonder why it hasn't resonated. It's because it looks so different than the men's game.
Tom Fox:I think, you know, women's soccer is now finding its moment. But for a long time, because the game looks so different than the men's game, it it didn't necessarily have the same level of popularity. But I think you start with, the fact that the game looks incredible on on television. All the elements that make the game exciting regardless of gender are are there for the women. And, you know, you've got you've got the the whole I think you've you've got the collegiate aspect to it.
Tom Fox:Right? So what I was talking about before, this idea that, you know, you've got highly educated women playing sport at the highest level. They haven't really had a pathway in this country before to do anything with it. They've had to leave. And I think it's, again, like the WNSL the excuse me.
Tom Fox:Like the NWSL found its moment within the last few years, I think the sport now as people look for other ways to attract an audience, the sport is has become really appealing, and the consumer's voting with their feet, by attending matches, you know, 90 +1000 in Nebraska. And I think the sport is ripe for, and I know there's 2 existing professional leagues right now. I think the sport is ripe for, for growth within the professional framework because I think it would be great if the the high quality players that are currently playing in the US had a pathway to stay in the US and play at the highest level.
Dharpan Randhawa:Okay. Care for what you wish for because there's some exciting news, around the corner as well on on that front, which we obviously won't leak. But, you know, just to just to touch on an one closing point on that. You mentioned the athletes, you know, these these incredible women athletes who are not only super powerful and amazing at what they do, But off court, they're also creator athletes. You go to their profiles, and they are so marketable.
Dharpan Randhawa:They they're super smart. You know, it's the number one sport in high school. They they are aspirational. Young girls wanna be like them, and they've created this movement. But I think, you know, brands are gonna very, very, very quickly catch on to this and go, you know what?
Dharpan Randhawa:This is hot. This is this is exactly the micro moments, the influences, the positive and authentic stories we wanna tell through these incredible athletes. And, and that's what I'm I'm personally very
Tom Fox:excited about. The story that doesn't get told a lot, Darks, is female athletes and I'm gonna make a statement and and people may not agree with it. But from from what I've seen, female athletes are incredibly good at connecting with their young fans. I can remember back after the World Cup in 99, You know, I had a young niece and, you know, introducing her to Mia and Brandy and Jules, and and that whole with that whole crew. And the way that they get down to her level and they talk to her and and, you know, they were asking her questions.
Tom Fox:You know, I'm not saying there aren't male athletes that do that, but female athletes understood how important it was to connect with their audience. And I I've seen it with Jen's daughter, Taylor, and and the fan base of of young girls that followed her while she was playing at Northwestern and then followed her when she went to Smash in Basel. And and her ability to connect with them with female athletes are just very good at that. They're very real. It's not about signing the autograph.
Tom Fox:It's It's not about just taking the photo. They actually know how to get down and connect with their fans. I know it's a generalization, and I hate making generalizations, but I've seen it. I've seen the impact that, you know, Mia stopping or Julie's and and Brandy stopping and talking to young girls has on those girls in a way that, you know, I I I don't see it always. I mean, certainly, there were athletes, you know, within within the men's game that could do that, but I think it is a core component to women's sport.
Tom Fox:They are really good at connecting with their young fan base and recognizing that they play an important role as role models, and they and they they they honor it and they take it seriously.
Dharpan Randhawa:Wow. That's super powerful. Yeah. The the the the term role model certainly stands out for me, and there's no secret why volleyball is the number one sport played in high school across America. So Right.
Dharpan Randhawa:It makes a lot of sense. Okay. So that's a wrap for this episode of The Playbook podcast. We we did well, Tom. We we kept it, on track and on time.
Tom Fox:And only a little bit of Formula 1 to be
Dharpan Randhawa:a Formula 1. Well, you know, I think I've drank the women's volleyball, Kool Aid, mate. So more more on that soon. I'm with you. But a huge thank you to you, and and thank you for for the support you give to our business as well.
Dharpan Randhawa:And and, your perspective on everything from brand engagement to the rise of emerging sports has been obviously very much appreciated, Tom, as you know. And and to our listeners, we're a young podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you've enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review.
Dharpan Randhawa:Share it with your friends, and, stay tuned for more episodes. We've got more great guests. This is The Playbook Podcast. I'm Japen Randhawa. Thank you so much.