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Starting Up an Orthodontic Practice, special guest -Jill Allen, Queen of Ortho
This Dental Specific Podcast is dedicated to the Dental "Entrepreneur" Michael Dinsio, Founder of Next Level Consultants, delivers #TRUTH when starting up a dental practice. From the very first step to getting the keys of a dental practice, Michael shares his raw & unscripted playbook with you. Not only does this podcast provide you with "What To Do" but more importantly "What Not To Do". With over over 15 years of experience & over 150 past clients, Michael delivers an educational and informative program in a real and genuine way. Start w/ Episode 01 - as we go through a STEP by STEP process.
00:06
Start up unscripted. The questions you have with the truths you need to hear.
00:15
And now your host, Michael Dinsio. All right, all right, everybody. Thanks again for joining us for another episode of Startup Unscripted. Today is exciting because I'm interviewing someone that I'm a friend of, have been a partner for many years, and she does what I do. So that should perk your ears up. What I do is what she does, but she is the ortho queen, as I call her.
00:45
There's one thing that I don't do a lot of and try to stay away from is ortho. And I feel like orthos, get neglected on my program. So today we're giving it to you, orthos, from the famous, I was going to say infamous, that wouldn't be right, Jill Allen with, Jill Allen and Associates. Jill, welcome to the program. Thank you for being here. Oh, thanks, Michael. I so appreciate that. what an honor to be
01:14
to be on the show. And I'm excited to be able to share any of my knowledge that I might have on the ortho side with your audience. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, she interviewed me once on her program and we're doing it on my program, but we got into some stuff that quite frankly, you know, she was asking me questions. I, you know, I was like, Oh man.
01:38
This is going to be dangerous because Jill's smarter than I am. here we go. Here we go. All right. So I'm ready for the curve balls. I'm going to pay you back today. I'm going to pay you back. Tell us a little bit about you, Joe. I just said you're the ortho queen, but tell us about your company and what you guys do and all that. Sure. So I own a consulting firm called Jill Allen and Associates.
02:05
And I have been in the consulting realm for a little over 17 years now, primarily focusing on startups, doctors and teams who are in business eight years or less. I do a lot with ortho acquisitions as well, very similar to you. And then I work a lot also on the other shoulder where I work with a lot of docs who are getting ready to retire. I kind of coin it eight years to retirement and we're helping them
02:34
get in, get their practices built up so that they are going to be ready to sell and get a good number out of that. So that's primarily where I live in the ortho space, work all over the United States. ortho is my passion. I've been in the industry for over 30 years now.
02:57
But you know, it's, I love it. I love everything about it. How did you get into it, Jill? Like what's your background? I think you were clinical for a half second, right? Yeah. So actually when I got into this, when I first got started, I come from a family where my mom was in the ortho industry. My sister is in the ortho industry. And so when I was young, I started off.
03:24
Like I said, 30 plus years ago, I actually started in the sterilization area. So I was the sterilization tech and the lab tech and just kind of made my way up through the back of the house and the ortho space became a trainer. And I was very, very fortunate to have worked with orthodontists in my younger years that were really progressive, believed in continuing education.
03:53
which allowed me to be in front of a lot of the sages in our industry when they were in their prime. And I just knew that I wanted to be a consultant from way back when. And I was the gal that would keep notebooks of like, this works well in an ortho office. That didn't work well in an ortho office. And just kind of made my way through and then decided at, you know, 17 years ago, like,
04:19
I'm ready. I'm, ready to do this. And I really had a passion for startups. That's, that's where I saw in our industry that we had a need and we just didn't have any consultants specializing in that. And so that's, that's where I jumped in. just, mean, lots there. I find the best consultants have that real world experience. It's, it's why on the other side of my business, I've hired incredible people that have lived that.
04:47
dental world like you have, and it's just a tangible, it's a different type of consulting. And so that's an impressive background. start, yeah, it's interesting. You know, this program is all about startups and startups are totally like different, different breed, different world, different thing. It is underserved. oftentimes say personally, like, like the folks that
05:15
that focus on startups bless their souls because startups need a lot of help. And not too many people are willing to give it to them at a fair price. And I say fair price because, you know, the professionals in the industry of all sorts have their fees and those fees might be totally normal to an established business, right? They can afford that, your company's cash flowing, you've been in business for years.
05:44
professional services, no problem. But for a startup, professional services are challenging. And so a lot of work, a lot of work. So let's get into it though with, with Ortho, Ortho, Ortho, So tell, tell us like, what are like the biggest things that the pitfalls of setting up an Ortho that might be different?
06:07
than our world and the GP, Pito and such. Like, Ortho is just a different beast. And why is it a different beast? And what are the complexities of a startup? And that's a loaded question, I know, but let's just have a conversation about like, why is Ortho different than the rest? Sure. I think when we think about definitely differences within...
06:34
you know, the specialties. I think one of the biggest differences is with an ortho practice, we don't just start off with cash flow. know, where we're on, I think, you know, the dental side of it, every procedure you produce off of, where for us, we may see six new patients in the door
07:02
And you know, a good conversion rate for a startup is 50%. We'll convert 50 % of those six patients and they don't pay us upfront. They do a down payment and they do a monthly payment out over the length of treatment. our, you know, when, when we start up an ortho practice, it starts very slow and, it's, like a snowball. It grows.
07:29
year after year as our AR continues to grow and our cash flow comes in. But it's a very different animal in that regard. I think even the way we look at the way we market is very different and who we're going after to get patients coming in our door. We're looking at the
07:54
the dentists in the area, hoping that they're going to refer to us. We're looking at hopefully pediatric dentists in the area, but we also have to have this super strong online presence where we're going direct to consumer to get, cause again, it's about, need patients coming in the door to be able to hit that conversion to get that cash flow going. Yeah. It's a big, it's a big funnel. It's a, it's a huge funnel. It reminds me of the,
08:22
the GPs out there that do really big cases and all-in-fours and like just, it's like you have to do a ton of marketing to convert a smaller percentage. And that's interesting, but hasn't that changed in the ortho world a little bit over the years? Like a lot of other specialties, like very similar to Pito, where you would rely on all referrals, but now the business has shifted where the consumer's smart enough to...
08:50
where you'd market direct, am I right? Yeah, that's a big part of it. I know when I work with startups and we're setting up our marketing plan, we still want those referrals. Of course. From our dentists and pitos out there. And we still need that community engagement. always say, in our first year, it's all about just brand awareness, making people aware that we're another practice out there that they can come to.
09:18
But for sure, I believe now it depends on where we're at, which state, which city, there's still marketing patterns. What we're doing in California is gonna be very different than what we do in South Dakota or some of the different areas there. But that direct to consumer is definitely a big part of the marketing strategy that we are putting in place right from the beginning.
09:47
It's interesting because on our episode on your program, which is Hey Doc, by the way, a little plug, Hey Doc, check it out. Jill's got a great program, primarily in the ortho space, but they get into all kinds of stuff on that show. But like Pito's, I think the thing that's missing a bit is, is the idea of still going after the referrals. Because the, just like Pito,
10:16
folks are intelligent enough, the community consumer is what I'm trying to say, smart enough to Google kid dentist or pediatric dentist. So you gotta have that brand awareness, like you said, and all of the external marketing that a GP would do, but don't forget about those referrals. And it's the same with ortho, right? Like you cannot forget about that. No, and I even call these our hot till not docs.
10:44
Right. I like this. I like this. Okay. So not okay. Hot until you're not. So, you know, like, like some of the strategy that I, you know, that I tell my, my docs is, know, Hey, when we're getting started, I know it's really easy to take, this is kind of a crude analogy, but take this like shotgun approach where we're just going to go out and we're going to canvas the area. And if, if it, if it has a DDS or you know, what, whatever, at the end of it, we're, we're, going after them. Right. Yes. Where ideally,
11:14
what I think we need to do is really narrow it down to like six to eight doctors that we really want to work hard to build a relationship with. So what is their age to us? What does their website look like? they look like they've got similar interests? And I usually say, pick that within about a five mile radius of where our practice is gonna be. Because what we know is in ortho patients usually, unless we're in a very rural area,
11:44
they're not going to come from more than about five miles around our practice. So let's be again, smart with our marketing efforts. So if we can identify these six state docs, I'm going to call them our hot, tell not docs. Then we're going to go after them and actively engage them, actively try and get to know them and their team members, actively try and get to know the doctors. Um, because if we think about our revenue,
12:11
or referral streams in a practice. I used to say we've got about four of them. So we've got our dental community, we've got our community around the five mile radius of the practice. We've got our online marketing. And then once we get going, our internal marketing, if you can kind of imagine cultivating each of those revenue streams and like for our referring docs, if we can get a constant two to six patients every month from these
12:41
four to six to begin with. And then the next year, you know, maybe it's five to 10 new ones. So we kind of dialed that revenue referral pattern in, right? And then we've got our online referral pattern coming in. In our community, that's what kind of creates our full bucket for all of these different areas versus just leaning into, just going online. Not that we can't do that, but you're kind of isolating out some of the other ones.
13:10
You used, I went to college for a marketing degree and back in the old days, we used to call that the marketing mix. So you're, describing this mix of, of marketing efforts and it's, it's so spot on the other, the other thing. And I didn't think we were going to go down marketing so much, but this is great. This is great. I'll go where you lead me. No, the, the crazy thing about you get two consultants in a room and you just never know where it's going to go. We can talk about anything.
13:40
Um, but I was also thinking, cause I talked to my clients a lot about like, okay, so ideas are great, but execution is everything. Right. and along that vein, you were talking about those four columns or whatever. Um, and I was just thinking like, Oh, you know, you could have 10, you could have 20 ideas and, and execute three.
14:07
or you could have five ideas and execute four or five, right? And so, and it's also about the quality. And what I mean by that is to your point with the shotgun, if you just blast shotgun, it's not quality, it's little touches, it's not impacting. But if you literally focus and develop a relationship, maybe take them, go to dinner, then get involved with their kids and then do just really
14:36
dig in, you're going to get a lot more fruit from from that if you're just going to approach it as, I met this really cool guy, I think it's going to work out and then you never talk to him again. It's not it's just like a relationship. So I, our clients these days, sorry, it sounds like a geezer right now. But it's almost like they don't know how to build relationships like they like we used to have to do. And that's a generalized statement. But big picture like
15:03
Relationship is an art and you got to really figure that out, right? Yeah. And I think I, I a hundred percent agree with you. And I think it's so, it is easier to just do online. You know, it's easier to do the non relationship touch type of marketing. But I think if you're looking for long-term referral patterns, have to do the work we have to pour in. And here's something else I say is,
15:32
Don't make it so personal that if somebody just doesn't connect with you or vibe with you, it's okay. I always tell my docs, give them a good year. If it doesn't work out, send them away with love. Remember how I said hot till not? Not, they're not. And when they're not, we're just going to send them away with love. And we're going to plug somebody else into that space and start working on, on, on that relationship. I think that strategy of like, of like,
16:02
picking a goal of X amount of people working that. And then when someone falls out, you backfill, but that's a strategy folks. And, I love that strategy because people do kind of go at this just randomly the best they can. when you, when you apply a strategy, taking out, putting in, taking out, putting that's genius. Yeah. Well, thanks. Yeah. Yeah. And, know, and something else I'll just add to this is we never know.
16:30
just like all of us encounter team members that change positions, right? And I think sometimes our referral patterns can change depending upon who's at the front desk or who's there. So you may notice too that somebody that maybe became a cold, we sent them away with love, kind of shows back up again.
16:56
um, you know, later on, because maybe they've had a change or you start to hear from somebody else because there was a team member that maybe switched jobs and now they're somewhere else and, you had built such a good relationship that it just, they just naturally want to follow something there. So I, I just can't say enough about how important it is to continue to foster and pour into that. Well, well, it's fitting.
17:21
to have a big section of this episode about orthos being on this relationship referral business, because that is one of the biggest differences is that, well, maybe not one of the biggest, but it's a big difference that where a GP can rely on a lot of the external marketing, because you can be successful doing a shotgun approach, trying to do a mailer with a new patient special, free whitening, all this kind of stuff.
17:50
Uh, you know, free exam X-ray only like orthos kind of can't do that. And they're, they're just bigger cases. And, and, and actually that's leading me to my next question thought that, that definitely different differentiates ortho to torpedo GP is how key it is probably, uh, to find the right fit at the front desk. So I want some tips here and that's going to think about your answer, but
18:19
The idea of, you know, my Pito and GPs, they, I hate to say it, but you can have a good front office person, but you need a rock star probably in your world. Someone that can treat my plan good at selling, talk about money and not be uncomfortable. That's what us GP folks and Pito's want is someone comfortable in their own skin, but it's super important in your world, right? How, how do you, like, what are some, and the financial arrangements, sorry, bouncing around here, but.
18:49
You're asking people for five grand. So we're asking people for $150. So the talent has to be different, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and this is probably the, especially in a startup, because I do a lot of startup ortho practices. This is a lot of times our key team member to the success, how successful a startup is going to be. And on the ortho side,
19:19
you know, unlike where, you know, pedo and dental, we usually start with one employee. So a lot is riding on that on that one employee. And first off, I say we look for personality, we look for that person that can be our face and our voice on our phone, and can make really great eye contact and connection with our patients and parents when they're walking in the door.
19:48
and can move them in through a sales process as we're saying, like you said, we're not even asking for 150 down, we're asking for maybe $500 down to get somebody started. So we have to also have this person with a personality that's comfortable asking for money that they may not even feel comfortable as a consumer. Think about that. Feel comfortable as a consumer.
20:17
Um, being able to, do so. So there's, there definitely is a lot that goes into that, that first employee and the role that they're, that they're covering. Um, and you know, I have, I have a lot of teams and doctors that'll say, you know, well, Jill, should I have somebody that's really experienced in our industry or not with it, with our consulting team, we train, I would say most of our employees that start with our startup docs don't have any ortho experience.
20:47
because we're looking for other qualities out of this person. we, I always say it's like our golden goose. If we find that person that has the ortho skills and has some ortho knowledge and can do all of this. mean, that's our unicorn out there. But it's hard to find that. that kind of got me thinking ex-banker money cashflow break even. And that's always a question I get with
21:17
my docs is like, Mike, when am going to break even? And the truth of the matter is, in, in, GP for sure, PEDO a little harder because the annual patient value is less. Um, I keep going back to PEDO cause Jill and I partner on some, on PEDO stuff. And so it's important to note that, but, um, you know, we can break even pretty quick.
21:44
because we are collecting that money in a 35 to 45 day window, again, back to the insurance game that orthos don't have to play. like the break even point in my opinion can be as soon as six months sometimes. I'm sitting here thinking how the hell do orthos do this when like, what's that look like? Lots of working capital. Yeah, and not enough.
22:13
Not enough. No, for sure. So, you know, just some, just some kind of basic ortho numbers that, you know, that, that I'll throw out. usually in an ortho practice, we're looking at maybe doing 300,000 minimum in production in our first year, but we're only collecting half of that. So you, kind of a good rule of thumb in ortho is what we produce in one year. We collect over two, because again, remember I was saying, you know, we do downs and monthlies and.
22:42
you know, we're collecting over a period of time. So when you average it out, what you collect, what you produce and when you collect over two. So that, that 150 that we're going to bring in is just going to be enough to cover base baseline expenses for the startup business. It's, it's covering one employee. It's the doctor is taking no income out of this and any money, if there is any extra, which there's not in the first year, if
23:09
there wasn't a, my, my suggestion for my docs is always pour it right back into the business, into marketing. Now year two, see, remember how I saying how we kind of have a snowball year two, we should probably, you know, produce around 600,000. We're going to collect around 300. We're going to have another employee. We'll have a little extra, but I still don't suggest that my docs pull any income out. So, so for us cash flowing,
23:37
You know, we're probably not until into the year three into four before we're really feeling good if we're hitting our numbers where that we're looking for. Folks. Um, so when you talk about, I should have been an ortho. I want you to consider what she just said, cause I could not imagine not breaking even for 24 months. I couldn't imagine that, um, along that vein. Um, wow.
24:06
Along that vein, we talked, I just keep still getting my head around that. You know, that associate position is so key for orthos. It has to be so key because to not break even, you have to have a solid associate position. Just like I tell all of you folks in my audience that, you know, don't quit your job, your day job, or don't quit your job until you know the business is supporting.
24:35
Yeah, that that's interesting. So big picture, a lot more is on the line, but it's funny because the second year in my world is actually worse than the first year. Ironically. I want, I want to, know I want to paint that picture real quick. So folks imagine doing a startup and we're going to do about 400 in the first year ish on average. Okay. And you're going to collect all 400, right?
25:05
If you're a slower, you could be in the 300s, but still you collect all 300, not 150. But you're also working as an associate making maybe 50 grants. That's an extra 50 grand or whatever, maybe even 75 if you're a bigger producer. But you got free rent, usually. You got a lot of working capital. You got a discounted loan payment. And again, you've got that other job. So the second year, I always have my folks not.
25:34
I don't have them, but they always quit in the first year because they don't want to work for the man still. That's why they doing a startup. They want to quit. hate their job. So they always quit prematurely. So six months, eight months, maybe a year if I'm lucky. So now that associate income's gone, free rent's gone, working capital's burned up. And maybe the next year you'll do four, 450. So your, your income actually drops.
26:02
your second year. And a lot of people don't realize that because of that associate position just is the majority of it. And the bank payments go up and the rent payments go up. big picture. That's kind of funny, like how that happens. yeah, working capital, Jill, how we talked about that. It's so important. It's just
26:27
so important. It's even more important in your world. Let's talk about banking and the structure of banking slightly. I don't want to dominate this. want to hear from you with construction costs and the bank's not giving you enough working capital and marketing dollars. And how do you get it all in? Oh, it's tough. I'll tell you, know, 2022, 2023,
26:55
2022 was tough. We've never seen rent higher than it's been. I've never seen construction costs higher. I can tell you, right now in an ortho startup, and we're doing this end of 2022, we're easily seeing build-outs in orthos minimum. And this is, I'm not even really seeing this much anymore. 185 is square foot up to two.
27:23
to 20, to 30 a square foot. Probably even higher in certain places, probably even higher. Oh, for sure, for sure. And we're only talking 1,500 to 2,500 square foot space. So when you look at the banks that are lending for an ortho practice, 750, 800 max right now, you can do some quick math and see how much of that is just going out in construction.
27:51
then what do you have left? still have to buy equipment and we still have to come up with our marketing budget and all of those different things. it's definitely a tough, it's tough right now. But I think it's just where we're at and what you say, how do we work it all in?
28:12
you know, we hope that we've got at least 75 K that's what I look for in working capital once once we get open. And hopefully we're getting some TI back or tenant improvement allowance back that if you know that that we can you know, kind of bank into for the ortho side, you know, bank into our, our, our savings as well as we're making our way through. And then in turn, why asking for free rent and
28:42
you know, if I could just say, you know, for docs that are out there trying to negotiate, you know, if you don't have a consultant working with you, you know, that, that usually that free rent happens that, you know, starts ticking away the minute you sign your lease. Well, if you don't have your design plans ready to go, if you don't have everything planned out, you're going to be paying for them to build out your space, you know, so you really should be working to make sure that you're negotiating out some good.
29:10
a good length of time for free rent. Amen. Amen. That's right. The more intentional you are about the beginning, the planning of the construction and earmarking all of those dollars throughout the process. I don't understand equipment in ortho. I don't understand software. I don't understand the IT needs and even the size of the spot. That's what makes Jill a specialist in her world.
29:40
Um, it all has to be thought about. it all has to be intentional. You can't just walk into a Starbucks and start meeting these people and letting them guide you through the process. Um, whether you hire me or Jill or someone else, you gotta have a plan because the industry has a plan for you. That's the best I can say it. And I, and I would agree. Uh, would a hundred percent agree with you. And I have this talk all the time.
30:10
where docs will come to me and say, Jill, my equipment specialist says they'll do it for free, but Jill, my so-and-so, da-da-da-da-da. And you know what, what I would encourage anybody who's listening is it's, think it's helpful to have somebody that's in your corner that's advocating for you that has no vested interest in what you purchase.
30:30
or what you buy or what you sign on. Like our goal as a consultant, my goal as a consultant is to help you be successful as an orthodontist once you get going. And I don't have any vested interest in which X-ray machine you buy or the SteriCenter you purchase or whatnot, where other people do. And that can just blow through your budget so quickly that when it comes to
30:57
they're all gone and you're left going, okay, now I've got to see patients, but I don't have any money for marketing. And I don't, you know, this side or the other, you know, that it's great. I got this really, really great, you know, x-ray machine, but I don't have patience to take x-rays. Yes. Yes. Oh, wow. Totally, totally spot on. We're talking the same language.
31:21
Yeah, I apologize, folks. It's the broken record because Jill's saying the same thing I've been saying for three years. See, it's the same stuff. It's the same stuff. Which which means it's for real. you know, we talked a little bit on your program, and this will be my my last question to you. And I think it's a good conversation because there is a little cross pollination between my world and your world with pitos for sure.
31:48
Um, even sometimes, uh, in my world where GPS want to bring an ortho in that happens all the time too. I, I want to talk about partnership a little bit. Um, and in your world, does it make sense for an ortho to partner with, with my folks and what could that look like? What's a successful partnership arrangement look like where both parties win?
32:16
Is there something that you endorse that, you know, my folks can hear and be like, Oh, that could be pretty cool. We could, we could make that work. Oh, I have a friend that's an ortho and whatever. Like I think it's cool how, how the dental, the dental industry support it's itself. It's a huge ecosystem. There's referrals and friendships and CE and all kinds of cool stuff. Uh, but it's dangerous too. And we talked a lot about that on Hey Doc, uh, your podcast. So.
32:45
What are your thoughts about partnership and how can it work with an ortho? Sure, sure. So I definitely think there can be some really good partnerships out there. Like we talked about on my show, I think first off and foremost, it comes to really identifying what each person is looking for out of the deal. And and I think from the the dental side of it, understanding that ortho will not be a cash cow right out of the gate.
33:14
And I think that that's probably the biggest misconception that I see when I have orthodontists that are going to be partnering with a dental practice or a pedo practice or some type of a multi-specialty location where they come in and the dental side is like, oh my gosh, you know, they're just not cash flowing, you know, right away. And I think that that's something we just have to understand. You heard me say this already. It can take up to three years to really get that
33:42
that momentum going. I think the other thing that you have to really understand, even though it's a partnership is that as a dental or a pedo practice, do you have enough to feed to be the only referral source for the sort though? Because if you're not, are you willing to put your marketing dollars towards bringing patients into their side of the practice? You know, because I'll have you know, Dennis that'll say like,
34:09
Oh, you know, we easily send out 16 patients a month to an ortho or 20 patients a month. Well, that's great. And they're thinking that's like so much. Yeah, that's nothing again. I mean, I mean, even if we've got a good TC and we can convert it, you know, 65, 70, 80%, that's, that's not enough to have the type of practice that, know, the whole reason you're bringing in an ortho and the whole reason that an ortho is choosing to be with you as well. So.
34:39
what is going to be your marketing plan? Do you have some dollars earmarked for growing that practice? Because it's different than growing your endo or growing your pedo practice or some of those other ones that can work off of your marketing that you're already doing in your practice. And have a quicker payoff. Yeah, for sure. Another thing that I think you really need to pay attention to, and I think this is tough, is we do billing differently.
35:07
Dental softwares do not work well for ortho. You just don't, we just don't. And I know that I've seen a lot of the programs out there, I understand them. They just don't work well. So if you're committed to doing this partnership, let it be its own entity. Bring in the right software. Don't share team members where you're like, oh, can just, when I have an assistant and they're free, they can just hop over and do ortho. They can't.
35:36
They don't, know, they, probably don't have that skillset and not having that dedicated team will hinder your ortho practice from growing. Um, but if you can, if you can feed it and, know, and, do it the right way, you're going to have this beautiful, you know, um, you know, secondary, um, you know, specialty coming out of your practices. Yeah. Uh, we, uh, I oftentimes think with these types of partnerships, PETA, ortho,
36:04
bring in an implant person. Like you think about all these multi-sign, you know, the GP is kind of like a hub, a wheel that gets to send out. Yeah. Um, I loved, I love the comment about, you know, I sent 15, 20 K that it's okay. That doesn't feed a specialist. It's a lot, but it's not a lot for them. It's a lot for you. A couple of things you're going to alienate your, your, your other referral partners by partnering. So, so if you're a, uh,
36:34
GP bringing in an ortho. Now all the GPs don't want to send any work over to your ortho partner. So got to think about that. And then I also think a lot about like treatment planning. And again, we talked a little bit about this on your show and that that was that, you know, your GP crew, the culture has to be smart and sharp enough to diagnose and have smart conversations.
37:00
And if they're not, you know, maybe the 20 leads could be 40 if they were better. If that makes sense. You were saying 15 referral. That's a lot. Yeah. But it could have been, dude, you see 15 people today in your hygiene department. How many of those people have issues that could be fixed with, uh, not just cosmetic, but airway, right? And so being smarter about that. So if you're going to partner, there needs to be more collaboration on probably clinically.
37:29
cross training, the teams need to like be smart about your business if you're going to do something like that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I would say even I love your train of thought where you're going here because I also see where we run into problems where we'll, sent you 16, you know, patients, but you know, some of them didn't have the restorative plan done yet. Some of them didn't have this set or the other. it's like, well, why aren't you starting them all?
37:56
You know, so again, we want to really make sure. that crown on there if you're going to put a bracket. Yeah, yeah, you know, we can't do that, you know, that Invisalign scanner that this side or the other, if we still have restorative work. So I think it's and a lot of times it's a breakdown even within the teams. know, they're excited to want to be able to refer, but maybe it's not as strong a referral. So if you can get your protocols in place to make it so that
38:26
There's really good synergy between, um, you know, the specialties that, that will just really, really help there. Folks, hope this opened your mind up because we talk so much about ortho, but it's also, it's all multi-specialty. could be ortho thinking about GP or Peto could be GP thinking about a periodontist or whatever. You, you got your business to worry about to set up, which is a whole beast in itself, but then you have to think about how do I make this partnership?
38:55
equally as beneficial. So it's just more to think about, more to plan, more to synergize on. Of course you have more marketing dollars. Of course you have some overhead that you can share. Those are some benefits, but big picture. If you do not execute the plan properly, think through some of these things with the help of someone like Jill or I, it's just two semi-decent startups.
39:24
that the benefits don't outweigh the, what am I trying to say? The challenges. So. And I think if I could just add what I then see, and we see this a lot, unfortunately, is just this lackluster experience and maybe even some sour taste in your mouth about, that didn't work well, that wasn't great, ortho's horrible or pedo's horrible or blah, blah, blah, blah. And really it probably wasn't.
39:52
that at all. was just the execution in the beginning that that didn't have a good planning is really, think, and we've seen that we've seen that across any company you you you go into a store or a restaurant and you have an amazing server that love them. They're sweet. They're smiling. They're, you know, interacting with your kids. And then the food comes out and it's or
40:18
Or the opposite, right? And it just ruins the five star rating and all of that effort for nothing. If you don't execute in the things yet, you need to, then it's just, it's all, it's a lot for nothing. And that's, that's super unfortunate. Well, well, Jill, I hate to do this. We're running short on time. This is great. We can talk all day. How do people get a, get a hold of you?
40:43
Again, we've already referenced, doc, we'll have those, that information below in the show notes, but just, know, um, final thoughts and how to get a hold of you. Yeah. Yeah. So if you've got questions about ortho, um, I'm always happy to do free consultations and just be, you know, just, just a lifeline out there in the ortho realm. Um, I do lots and lots and lots of calls with doctors in all different areas. So if you want to check out the website, it's www.
41:12
practice results with an S.com name of the company is Jill Allen and associates. And if you want to hear a podcast, that's a little more ortho focused, it would be Hey docs. And you can find that on any of the, um, you know, in any of the sites out there, the worldwide web, the worldwide web. I'll have all that information below, uh, Joe.
41:38
It's a pleasure folks. Don't call me if you're an ortho. Jill's going to be way better suited. But and she you're in great hands. So thanks for being a part of the program. Yes. Thank you. And let's let's do this again. OK. I'd love it. Thank you. All right, Jill. Take care. Thanks.
42:00
Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another truth-filled episode of Startup Unscripted.