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The REALTORS® Association of Edmonton (RAE), founded in 1927, is a professional association of real estate brokers and associates in the Greater Edmonton Area and beyond.
Welcome to the RAEdio podcast brought to you by RAE, the REALTORS™ Association of Edmonton. So that's the Ray in our radio. We deliver easy to understand market insights, some homeowner tips, perspectives from industry experts so that you can feel informed and empowered wherever you are in your home ownership journey because better decisions start with better information. Joining us now to talk about home inspections is Dennis O'Sullivan of Emerald Property Inspections. Hello, Dennis.
Dennis:Hey, Mark. Thanks for having me on here.
Mark:So, Dennis, how long have you been doing home inspections, and how did you get into it?
Dennis:Ten years this year. It's hard to believe where the the time has gone, Mark. I got into it simply on my original carpenter by trade and, it was time for a change. My body wasn't behaving the way it should be. I was, you know, my back was cracking.
Dennis:My knees were cracking. You know? I could be silent getting out of bed, but my body would betray me and my wife wouldn't be long letting me know. So, it was time for a change and a fortuitous circumstance arose, I guess, in 2016. My wife and I bought our house here and the home inspector that we used at that time was looking for someone and I started working with him not long afterwards and rest is history.
Mark:And I think everybody can tell by your accent that you are an immigrant from Ireland.
Dennis:That's correct.
Mark:Were you a carpenter back in Ireland as well?
Dennis:Yeah. I I started working as a carpenter in 2002 and have been, I suppose, what you would call a red seal here. Basically, a qualified carpenter since 2006.
Mark:So walk us through the process. When you start, you know, looking at a house, do you follow a checklist of things or does it depend on the house?
Dennis:No. You'll always have a basic reference point with your, with your software to refer back to, but, every house is indeed different. You know, you can't you can't apply the same checklist to a nineteen twenties, fifties, seventies, nineties, February, so on and so forth. You can't apply, you know, an all encompassing brush to to everything. And, and the vast majority of what we do, Mark, is it's it's basic common sense.
Dennis:And as I said, you can't treat every house the same. What is an issue in one house might be much less of an issue or much bigger of an issue depending on the property again.
Mark:It must have been an interesting learning curve for you being a carpenter obviously, and then going into this, what were some of the things you learned along the way and things maybe that surprised you?
Dennis:Well, the first business I had, here in Alberta was I immigrated here in 2031, I think it was. And the, the first business I actually had was a framing business. That's just spoke naturally to, to what I what I am, which is a Red Seal carpenter. But I found within that one, it was, very hard to get the work done, economically and time wise economically, I mean, and also then to make enough money to justify the time that went into us. And I took my learnings from there, to be better prepared when I went into this particular industry.
Dennis:When it came to this industry, a lot of inspectors are carpenters. We know structure very well, but things that are either good grasp on, but things like to learn, obviously, the other systems of the house, your electrical, your plumbing. Plumbing is pretty easy to be fair, but your electrical systems, what's required, what's not required, and, your HVAC systems. Much different to what I was used to back in Ireland. You know, obviously, construction is very, very different.
Dennis:And, it was a steep learning curve. And then also, taking into account the the emotional aspects of the situation. You're dealing with people that are buying a property. It's one of the largest, if not arguably the largest purchase 99% of people will ever make. And real estate agents are great or they are to, I suppose, offer counseling in many situations to nervous buyers.
Dennis:But a property inspection gone wrong can blow the best laid foundations right up if an inspector comes in and is overzealous about certain items. So that was something I told everyone was to be careful, how we presented things. Keep in mind that, you know, buyers are stressed very often and you got to keep the emotional aspect in check as well.
Mark:That's interesting because that I'm sure for a lot of people would difficult to grasp. You have to almost have an innate sense of say, empathy and the ability to communicate and all that. And probably something you have to work on when you're doing that.
Dennis:A 100%. You know, I've been through many home inspections. I think we're I'm somewhere between six and seven thousand in the last ten years. And, yeah, it's been good. What And you learned very quickly and what I've started doing in the last few years is perhaps having a conversation with the realtor ahead of time, getting a sense of the clients themselves.
Dennis:Some clients know the house already in silos. They know what they're coming in for. They're just doing it for due diligence, for peace of mind. Others know very little about a home. And and then others are, as I said, are uber confident even if they don't know about a home.
Dennis:Others want to buy the house regardless of its condition because of where it is, could be close to family, close to work, close to school, whatever. And then you got others that are just worried about everything and have a tendency to visit doctor Google, which is never great, you know, and you just got to present your findings. There's so many formats out there for presenting a report, Mark. You've got different types of inspection software that all eventually do the same thing. They deliver a clear report.
Dennis:It it it how is that that it's it's fine. That's all great. What the most important aspect of it is how you verbally present your findings at the time of the inspection and to be there for the follow-up with all these with buyers. You know, we try to call every buyer or at least give them a text message after the fact, and it's one of the services we do offer is a is a free callback service. So clients are we're we're always happy to go back to a house and and Yeah.
Dennis:Work with the clients and answer any questions or just give them a, I suppose, a walk through of the house, an introduction to their property once they've moved in.
Mark:So how long does a home inspection typically take? And and do you allow the potential buyer to come along and watch your inspection ever?
Dennis:So there's there's nothing in, there's no requirements, within the Edmonton area for a home or for, excuse me, for a client to be at the inspection, but we strongly recommend it. You know, if if if you're going to to buy in a property, we strongly recommend you be there for what is a very important part of the process with Oh,
Mark:so you you you would like them to be there for it?
Dennis:Yes. We we strongly recommend it. What what we don't recommend and some of, I suppose, the more seasoned realtors have a tendency to say, hey, you should follow the inspector around. That's not something we recommend for a simple reason. I know I always bring at least two inspectors to the majority of my inspections.
Dennis:And so to answer your first question, you mentioned time wise. The average inspection is ninety minutes to to two hours
Mark:Right.
Dennis:Because of two sets of eyes, two inspectors. And if your house is big enough, our schedule allows it, I sometimes bring three. But then again, if the house is on the smaller side, a condo, townhouse, whatever the case may be, or even a smaller new build, I don't wanna bring two or more inspectors because your clients aren't getting value for money if you're out there within twenty to thirty minutes. They kinda feel, well, what the hell did
Mark:they expect? So,
Dennis:you know, it's all based on the properties, based on schedule with the requirements for for agents to be at the inspection. We always gotta be cognizant of of everyone's time as well. So you're trying to keep things economic all around, and that's the choice of multiple inspectors. We can see more, bounce ideas off each other if we find an issue that one's not sure on, so on and so forth. Right.
Dennis:I think I forget your other question.
Mark:No. No. I think you covered it really well there. Overall, is there a can you give me a ballpark? Like, what does it cost?
Mark:Is there a basic cost? And can it is it affected by the age of the house or or if it's a new house? And do you sort of give an estimate and say, well, I know this house is quite big, it's quite old, it's going to cost a bit more.
Dennis:Yeah, generally ahead of time you try to cover all the bases. Nobody likes hidden costs or surprising costs. And on our website, we try to be as transparent as possible with all our pricing. Now there is aspects that affect it. Obviously, I wouldn't charge as much for a 1,900 square foot new build as I would for a 1,900 square foot 30 year old home.
Dennis:You know, you should expect less issues on a newer build. That's a whole other topic of conversation there. Trust me, there's plenty issues in new builds. But cost wise, our standard fee would be around $5.95 and that would be for your house that's under about 2,000, 2,200 square feet with a finished basement. Unfinished basement is a little less.
Dennis:Once it goes above 2,200 or so, things start getting a little bit more expensive, incrementally rises based on square footage. As I said, age of house, if there's multiple furnaces, if there's basement suites, do they want add ons such as source scoping, mold, asbestos testing, all these things. So there's there's there's various layers, but the average company, we're all in around that high 500 mark for standard inspections.
Mark:What's the biggest safety issue that you would commonly see in a home or maybe something you saw that you're like, wow, this is unusual.
Dennis:Well, I suppose safety issues in a home, you know, I suppose within in modern homes, it's it's a little safety issues are more rare, but, know, you're always looking for things like carbon monoxide issues. That that is one. Especially on those older furnaces, we use a carbon monoxide detector on all our inspections and, you know, you try to check the heat exchanger as best you can. That would be one of the bigger issues. Obviously, you're looking for fire safety, things like that.
Dennis:More often than what we're looking for are the bigger potential issues in what we do is is your structural concerns, you know, and and and safety issues to be fair in in residential are are I shouldn't say few and far between, but they're not far off. You know, you're looking for your mobile issues, obviously, your air quality issues. And and, you know, you take steps from there to advise the client and what should be done next. But generally So
Mark:safety isn't the biggest issue in a home inspection. It's more about is this in shape? Am I gonna have to spend a lot
Dennis:of money on it? Yes. That that is that is more the concern because at the end of the day, if if there was no one safety issues in a home, you would think before it's listed, it would either be remediated, disclosed, so on and so forth. That is previous fires. Has there been environmental past issues, flooding that may have created mold or other more nefarious things like criminal activity, so on and so forth.
Dennis:Generally, that is all disclosed well ahead of time and we're aware of this. More often not, as I said, the biggest concerns we have are your structural, mechanical, windows, doors, the big ticket items. You know, your average inspection report, Mark, I'm sure you've seen them in your time, contains a million and one little things. Most of those are the honey do list as we refer to roll up your sleeves on a Saturday and Sunday over a few weekends and get them taken care of. Most clients are happy with their own provided structure, the mechanical, your windows, appliances, roof, things like that are in.
Dennis:Are in.
Mark:Yeah. I I mean, I've been in this home here for thirty five years almost. And I I did use the home inspection as, okay, I gotta get to these things and do that. And then other parts of it were like, well, that's not such a big deal. And which I think you probably discussed that with the homeowners.
Mark:Right? Which what should I be concerned about? We
Dennis:we try to lay the report out in such a way that it it gives the the the clients, you know, well, this is immediate to short term, potentially expensive, or I need to do my due diligence on this. And then you've got your items that are mid to long term. Maybe there's some short term due diligence on these items, but, you know, more often than not, it's it's items that are healthy. You you don't even need a professional. You can do them yourself for bringing a good handyman or or a lot of DIY workers.
Dennis:A lot of DIY, legends out there who, who love doing that. And you know what? I'm a carpenter myself. I love doing work in my house. My wife, god bless her, is probably all she's probably gray somewhere just because it's it's I never stop.
Dennis:I've always I love a closet.
Mark:Well, that's a good thing. I know a lot of people who have carpenters in their family never get anything done.
Dennis:That's No. That's like a mechanic's car, isn't it? Like, you know, it's just what I've always forgotten about.
Mark:Now the realtors have pointed out a few things to me that I'd never heard of and know much about, but I'm sure the things that you come across. One of the issues that's been raised to me is about poly b piping. So what is that, and and why is it a concern, if at all?
Dennis:So good old PolyB, we hear about it all the time. If you Google us, it's never it's it's it's there's nothing good online about us. We spoke about doctor Google before. It's generally, the worst case scenario is always on there. And and the worst case scenario is there because, obviously, it's happened to plenty people in the past.
Dennis:It's it's not middle. So when I bought my house, my wife and I bought our house, sorry, in 2016, we had PolyB pretty much 100% through order one. We didn't have any concerns about buying it. For me, clients need to understand it's not a reason in our opinion to not buy a property, but it's something that requires due diligence. It requires due diligence from an insurance perspective, and it requires due diligence with an independent master plumber.
Dennis:And an understanding that I'd like the very high likelihood is that in the not distant future, it will have to be replaced. Insurance companies are getting concerned about us. The PolyB itself was supposed to explain it. I'm assuming most of the listeners will be aware of what it is, but to explain, it's it's a type of plumbing distribution lines for your plumbing system. This is real water.
Dennis:Known issues were identified in the mid nineties, and there was a class action lawsuit, which I believe was settled probably at least five years ago. I'm not I'm not entirely sure on that. But the lawsuit doesn't no longer exist. What I've always said to clients is and maybe for a lot of home inspectors listing, they might throw their eyes to to heaven here a little bit, plumber certainly. But what I generally try to say to clients is that if your poly b hasn't failed for what are considered poly b defects, then it's not going to fail now thirty years after install because of those issues.
Dennis:It's just going to fail because of plumbing plumbing ages out, and that's generally what we're dealing with now is that poly b is considered to be aging out. And it's something that people will have to consider in their budgets for replacement. I've actually replaced it all in my own home. We did it five years ago because we were doing wide scale renovation. So it was a good opportunity to take care of it.
Mark:Alright. So that's interesting. I'm sure a lot of people might for sure look that up. Another thing that was brought to my attention, once again, something I hadn't considered about aluminum wiring. Is that still a big concern or where does it stand?
Dennis:Well, you won't get it in a home anymore from probably the mid-70s onwards. You want to have it installed in a home built, shall we say, but there are still plenty houses out there that have it present. Aluminum wiring, the issue with it is it expands at expands and contracts at a different rate to copper wiring. And the outlets it was attached to at the time, it was slowly but surely microscopically, you would notice it with the naked eye unless it went too far, in which case you started getting arcing fire issues. It was becoming loose on the outlets and switches.
Dennis:It's an insurance concern and it is a performance concern. We still find it and probably held half of those homes from the seventies that we inspect, Mark. And it's something that will need to be replaced, but it's not you have to rip out all the wiring in your home. It's what's called copper pigtailing or if you can find aluminum compatible outlets, which I believe exist, but generally it's copper pigtailing that's gone very inexpensive. The average home, I believe, is like the average bungalow is like $1,500 or something like that.
Mark:Right. For the whole house?
Dennis:Yeah. For for the whole house. It's a good it's a good ballpark. It's not 100 percent accurate. Obviously, we don't use pricing, for, because we're not, legally allowed to do so.
Dennis:But in my experience from talking to various master electricians, that's about the average cost and something that is very simple to take care of.
Mark:Another question was put to me, are non permanent or wood basements something you come across a lot? And maybe define those for us.
Dennis:We see wood basements, infrequently at best. I think in near ten years now I've been doing this, Mark, I've probably seen maybe a dozen and more often not, they tend to be on rural properties. You do see them every now and then in urban areas. As a carpenter, I wouldn't be provided and this is the hard part of what we do because what we do is noninvasive and the foundation is mostly, obviously, mostly underground. Right.
Dennis:And what you need to see with a wood foundation or what you would like to see is how it is waterproof along the exterior, but obviously, that is underground and buried, obviously, with your creating around your home. I wouldn't have massive concerns about them, but it's generally accepted that they do not last as long as a concrete foundation.
Mark:Right.
Dennis:And that is probably more the concern for people instead of thinking, well, I'm getting a 50 or 80 or house here, whatever the case may be. Like, how many people actually live in their home that long these days? Yeah. I suppose a lot of people start worrying about resale in more than actual performance. Provided a wood foundation is installed well, waterproofed well, they're perfectly fine.
Mark:So what are the most common, I guess, deal breaker issues that arise in a home inspection?
Dennis:Oh, that's a that's a loaded question. In in in ten years, as I said, I've seen people walk away, people get buyer's remorse over anything. All of a sudden, the the it's dawning on them. We have this house, we have this mortgage and something can be a house a house can be walked away from for any reason at home inspection. I've heard of people walking away because of they weren't happy with something like a loose outlet or something like that.
Dennis:And they're not so, like, you know, what do you have? It's just as loose or something else is wrong. Right. And then I've seen people buy buy things that are, you know, realistically fit for a wrecking ball. It just comes down to the buyer themselves, and that's why we have to be completely independent, from it all.
Dennis:Ultimately, it's the buyer's decision. Mark, the realtor doesn't, what's the term I'm looking for? The realtor doesn't tell them what to do one way or the other. They can Right. I just need
Mark:to make a recommendation.
Dennis:We can only give advice. You can take the horse to water as the saying goes. And, and and and and that's what we are in the same boat too. I've seen, as I said, I've seen people buy things, buy homes with horizontal cracks that you're looking at massive repairs, but it's in the area they want to live. It's all down to the buyer.
Dennis:Every situation is different. It's a fluid situation what we do, you know.
Mark:Well, it's interesting you say that because I was we were house shopping with my son about a year and a half ago. In in the area he wanted, the house looked great. We went downstairs and there was a big horizontal crack. And the realtor said, no. We never got to the inspection because we just said, oh, no, this is going be an issue.
Dennis:Unfortunately, they are quite expensive. And we've come across people that, you know, have had repairs done. And the only way to repair a horizontal crack properly is generally to dig it up from the outside and remove what's causing the lateral pressure and that's where the expenses come in and then you take your steps on the inside.
Mark:So have you ever had someone say to you after you've done the inspection something like, would you buy this house?
Dennis:All the time. All the time. They don't
Mark:ask me answer that. Do you answer honestly?
Dennis:No. We we will never answer that question. Not not not in the affirmative or the negative. We will, I suppose, give a statements if I'm comfortable after the inspection. Obviously, we've been there, we've walked through it.
Dennis:I would say something, well, I've seen people buy a hell of a lot worse, something like that. Or, you know, we won't answer the question at all. It's it's not a question we will ever answer. Because, again, as I said, every buyer is different. Every person their their their pain tolerance is different.
Dennis:Yeah. What is an issue for one person may not be an issue for another person and so on and so forth. It's it's actually, I I suppose, a study in the human psyche in in many ways as to what we do and real and realtors and indeed mortgage brokers see it as well. Mortgage brokers probably get so much of the stress. People freaking out over money or this payment needs to be made and, you know, you got to sit here.
Dennis:And then we see it from the other side. And and and to be honest, Mark, the biggest, probably, frustration I not even frustration. That's the wrong word. Apologies. It's the biggest, I suppose, cat amongst the pigeons pigeons in what we do is the buyers might be fine after the inspection.
Dennis:It's when they show the reports to uncle Bob or a parents or someone that's watched one too many episodes of Holmes Makes It Right or something like that. And and they start with the with the greatest of intentions of being nothing but a support and a help to their the the buyer or whatever the relationship may be, then they start blowing things. Mountain becomes a a molehill becomes a mountain very quickly, you know. Right. That's that's that's probably one of the biggest reasons people walk away from a house after an inspection is a family member or friend gets involved.
Dennis:That's got some trade experience.
Mark:I mean, I guess the way you present it is this is the issue. This is what you might have to do about it. And then it's up to you to make that decision about the house.
Dennis:Exactly. And and and people gotta remember too that a lot of the issues we point out have been there for years and people have lived through them as they are. Right. And, you know, humans are creatures of habit, aren't we? You know, we get used to things as they are for good or bad and and you you just deal with it, you know, and and more often than not, things in the WePointOutin reports, once as I said, top items are ticked off and are in reasonable to good condition, it's the buyers are happy after that.
Mark:Yeah. Well, it sounds like you love your job and you find it very enjoyable. It sounds very challenging as well.
Dennis:Oh, it is extremely challenging. As I said, balancing the human aspect with the professional standards we're required to maintain and but then, as I said, balancing that with getting the message across to your buyer, to your clients in a in a manner of speaking that that doesn't cause unnecessary stress. Because as I said, it's such an emotional rollercoaster buying a house. It's it's one of the goals in life, isn't it? That I suppose were thought it's it's it's a sign of the next step on the ladder to success to whatever, buying a home.
Dennis:There is absolutely zero need to create any any extra stress in that situation. And and that's what I pride myself on. That's what I pride my my training of my team on is keeping things simple. No sharp talk. Talk to people like you would want to be talked in a situation that let's say you wouldn't understand yourself.
Mark:No, absolutely. So Dennis, we always end with this question for all our guests. So for you personally, what makes a house a home? Oh.
Dennis:A house what makes a house a home is is the people that you share it with. Like I see, for instance, obviously, I'm from Ireland and my my parents' home house is a 100 and probably a 130 years old. And it's it's got it's full of memories for me. My dad passed away, in 2021 from cancer. And, when I go back to the house, that's a house that I have all my childhood memories in that I grew up in.
Dennis:But when you go back and one of the people that met at what it was isn't there, it's it's not the same place, you know, and that's what makes a house a home. It's it's it's it's the people that you share with and the memories that are in there. And for me, you know, that's where your family and your friends, that's the main thing in the house. You can recreate that in any house. It's the memories and the family that you have under.
Mark:That's a fantastic answer, Dennis. We thank you so much for joining us to talk about this today. Really appreciate it.
Dennis:Thank you, Mark. Thanks for having me.