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A podcast at the intersection of psychology and culture that intimately explores the human experience and critiques the counseling profession. Your host, Stephanie Winn, distills wisdom gained from her practice as a family therapist and coach while pivoting towards questions of how to apply a practical understanding of psychology to the novel dilemmas of the 21st century, from political polarization to medical malpractice.
What does ethical mental health care look like in a normless age, as our moral compasses spin in search of true north? How can therapists treat patients under pressure to affirm everything from the notion of "gender identity" to assisted suicide?
Primarily a long-form interview podcast, Stephanie invites unorthodox, free-thinking guests from many walks of life, including counselors, social workers, medical professionals, writers, researchers, and people with unique lived experience, such as detransitioners.
Curious about many things, Stephanie’s interdisciplinary psychological lens investigates challenging social issues and inspires transformation in the self, relationships, and society. She is known for bringing calm warmth to painful subjects, and astute perceptiveness to ethically complex issues. Pick up a torch to illuminate the dark night and join us on this journey through the inner wilderness.
You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist ranks in the top 1% globally according to ListenNotes. New episodes are released every Monday. Three and a half years after the show's inception in May of 2022, Stephanie became a Christian, representing the crystallization of moral, spiritual, and existential views she had been openly grappling with along with her audience and guests. Newer episodes (#188 forward) may sometimes reflect a Christian understanding, interwoven with and applied to the same issues the podcast has always addressed. The podcast remains diverse and continues to feature guests from all viewpoints.
[00:00:00] Anita: So queer theory incorporates gender ideology, but it goes beyond that. Queer theory at its core is about normalizing transgressive sex and problematizing normal. So [00:00:15] what they mean by problematizing is actually finding a way to make the normal problematic, and they've done that. They've been very successful in doing that.
I mean, half the people you'll run into, and maybe more so, actually believe that they just [00:00:30] simply cannot in any way have any objections to any of this because that would be bigoted, that would not be inclusive. And what's happening to society as a result of rejecting the normal and [00:00:45] embracing the transgressive is profound.
[00:00:49] Announcer: You must be some kind of therapist?
[00:00:55] Stephanie: Today I have the pleasure of welcoming back my friend, Anita Bartholomew. She is the [00:01:00] author of Sacrificial Lambs: A Liberal Reporter Exposes How the Progressive Left Harms Children in the Name of Gender Ideology. Anita previously appeared on this podcast in episodes 127 and 201, both [00:01:15] discussing indoctrination in K through 12, which is a large part of the focus of her book.
Today she returns to talk about the common pro-trans rhetorical question, "Why do you care so much?" Anita, welcome back. Good to see you.
[00:01:28] Anita: Oh, hi, Stephanie. [00:01:30] Thank you so much for having me back.
[00:01:31] Stephanie: Yeah, and, uh, you know, life's never perfect, so, uh, we're both a little under the weather today. You I think more so than me.
You look and sound great from my perspective, but I'm just giving listeners a heads-up that if you end up [00:01:45] sounding a little hoarse or congested, it's 'cause you're fighting through an illness to be here with me today.
[00:01:49] Anita: As we discussed, and, you know, as everyone knows, half the time when you talk about these issues, people will defend or deflect by saying, "Ugh, [00:02:00] it's just a small number of people.
Why do you care? It doesn't affect you." And the truth is, it affects every one of us. It affects our entire society. It's changing our entire society. [00:02:15] And, um, correctly identifying sex seems... You know, it's like, oh, it's just this one thing, but everything changes when you start pretending that sex isn't real.[00:02:30]
And, um, beyond that, with gender ideology, it's an offshoot of queer theory, as we've discussed in earlier episodes. So queer theory [00:02:45] incorporates gender ideology, but it goes beyond that. Queer theory at its core is about normalizing transgressive sex and problematizing [00:03:00] normal. So what they mean by problematizing is actually finding a way to make the normal problematic, and they've done that.
They've been very successful in doing that so that, I mean, half the people you'll run into, [00:03:15] and maybe more so, actually believe that, um, that they just simply cannot In any way, uh, have any objections to any of this because that would be [00:03:30] bigoted, that would not be inclusive. And what's happening to society as a result of rejecting the normal and embracing the transgres- aggressive is profound.
[00:03:42] Stephanie: I think I had a, a guest recently who [00:03:45] pointed this out, and I'm trying to remember who it was. I'm embarrassed that I'm not giving this person credit. But they were, they were talking about precisely that feature of queer theory that you were just describing. And they made the point that if you're constantly pushing the [00:04:00] boundaries away from any kind of norm, which is essentially the, the center, the middle, the average, then there's an insatiability to that, right?
There's never enough. You al- you always have to get weirder and weirder and weirder.
[00:04:14] Anita: And that [00:04:15] actually is what queer theory proposes, that any time something becomes acceptable, then it needs to be problematized 'cause if it's acceptable, it's no longer acceptable under the queer banner. It's very [00:04:30] weird.
Um, there's a famous quote that I will totally mangle from a book on queer theory. It's somebody who promotes queer theory, and I think it was about Foucault, who is, you know, not really the progenitor of queer theory, but he's pre-que- [00:04:45] queer theory. Gayle Rubin really started the movement. But he said that queer theory doesn't really relate to anything except that it's whatever is normal is what we are [00:05:00] against.
And so, yes, as you say, we keep getting weirder and weirder and further and further away from what is normal. And of course, society evolves, has evolved throughout the centuries, so we find some [00:05:15] things that work at one point, and they don't work as well for society at another point. And so we evolve slowly, and we adapt new behaviors and, um, adopt new behaviors, and we, we [00:05:30] find new ways of being, especially with new technology and new freedoms, new, um, even new pharmaceuticals.
Uh, like the, um, women's liberation movement was largely tied to the [00:05:45] availability of birth control, right? Um, and, uh, the ability to not have children if you didn't want to. And I know you're against chemical birth control, but this is, you know, historical. This is [00:06:00] where we came from. And a lot of what happened in the women's liberation movement didn't actually liberate women , you know, but we can talk about that in another time.
So, so society evolves, it adapts. It, it, you know, it [00:06:15] pulls back and it moves forward. But queer theory, now that, that half of the Western industrialized world has accepted it, there's no pulling back. It's always more and more and more and more and more. [00:06:30] And, um, and you have to understand where this came from, and I mentioned Gayle Rubin.
Gayle Rubin's manifesto, Thinking Sex, basically said that people who have different, quote unquote, [00:06:45] "tastes in sex" are being maligned. They are having their civil rights violated, and, uh, scary sex should not be scary. And everybody... You know, and, and the, the, the line that [00:07:00] sticks with me the most and that really I think explains where she was coming from and where this has been going is that boy lovers, pedophiles of course, were having their civil rights [00:07:15] violated, and nobody cares about their civil rights and therefore the police have feasted on them.
And well, the police should feast on them. They should be taken out of society. We [00:07:30] don't want people in society, moving through society who are feasting on children. But we, we saw this movement evolve so that it, it began with the, quote unquote, "transsexuals," who are now called [00:07:45] transgender. Uh, they were tied into LGB somehow, which is insane because the, uh, idea of queer theory is that, you know, there is no real [00:08:00] fixed sex or gender.
So if you're, say, a gay man, then, um, you should be attracted to any male gender person. So you should be attracted to women and vice versa with [00:08:15] lesbians should be attracted to anyone who claims to be a woman. So right there, that's anti-gay Obviously, right? You're, you're saying we have to abolish same-sex attraction [00:08:30] because it's now same gender attraction.
[00:08:32] Stephanie: It's also not at all how sexuality works. Like, I'm a woman and I'm, I'm a heterosexual married woman. Um, being heterosexual does not mean I'm attracted to [00:08:45] all men.
[00:08:46] Anita: Obviously. Like,
[00:08:46] Stephanie: far from it.
[00:08:48] Anita: And it also doesn't mean you're attracted to all people who claim to be men.
[00:08:53] Stephanie: That, that would be an even bigger expansion, but the nature of sexuality is [00:09:00] exclusive, which seems to be lost on these people who are so obsessed with their sort of totalitarian definition of inclusivity.
[00:09:07] Anita: I know. It's insane, isn't it? But the whole point of this is not any one particular piece of it. [00:09:15] It's about normalizing sexual transgression, and this, you know, falls into that. So as soon as, as we are told that we're bigots if we don't agree to X, [00:09:30] then, and we, we accept that, then they move to the next stage, and the next stage, and the next stage.
So now there are little girls, for instance y- I'm sure you heard of the case in Deerfield, Illinois last year where, uh, a little girl came [00:09:45] home from her gym class and she told her mom, "They're making us take off our clothes in front of the boys, and they're- Actually punishing us if we don't agree to do this.
This is beyond [00:10:00] just a sports team. This is just a gym class. And, uh, when the moms said, "Wait a minute, you can't do that," one mom in particular, they said, you know, "Well, we do have private dressing rooms if [00:10:15] any of the girls feel uncomfortable." Well, they didn't actually. They had five private dressing rooms, and they had 20-some odd girls.
So at least three-quarters of the girls would be forced to undress in [00:10:30] front of these boys and have the boys un- dress in front of them. But the thing about this is that we have forgotten what the rules are because we have been told the new rule is that if a boy says he's a girl, he's a [00:10:45] girl, and if you don't agree, you're a bigot.
So parents, a lot of them, don't feel that they can object to this because they don't wanna be bigots. Uh, so we've normalized [00:11:00] voyeurism and exhibitionism in, uh, just a child's gym class, and this is happening all over the country. You know, the... We talk a lot about the sports situation because it's very obvious.
If you put a man or a boy in, [00:11:15] in female sports, and obviously, uh, if, uh, the guy is a decent athlete, he's going to dominate, and even if he doesn't get the first prize every time, he's going to knock some girls, [00:11:30] you know, every girl below him down a notch, and some won't. So that's, you know, that's an upsetting thing for girls who have practiced and, and tried very hard in their sport.
And I appreciate that, but I think [00:11:45] what's not... You know, people can see that very clearly, but I think that what's not really talked about nearly enough is what happens before and after the game. These girls and women are [00:12:00] forced to undress in front of men and boys who are undressing in front of them. And there was a situation in, I believe it was Massachusetts, where some girls were claiming that the [00:12:15] boys were masturbating in the locker rooms and in the toilets.
Now, if you had told an adult 10, 20 years ago, there are boys masturbating in the girls' toilets. There are boys [00:12:30] masturbating in the girls' shower. Immediately, that would've been stopped, right? But we don't know what the rules are anymore. So the new rule says the boy is a girl, and he gets to [00:12:45] undress, and he gets to watch the girls undress.
And if he happens to be masturbating, we're not gonna notice, because that becomes a problem for us adults that's too big to deal with, 'cause then we have to be bigots.
[00:12:57] Stephanie: Okay. On that note, [00:13:00] that example is so absurd because if a boy was masturbating in front of other boys in the boys' room, that would be a problem.
If a girl was masturbating in front of other girls in the girls' room, that would be a problem. These are, these are [00:13:15] crimes.
[00:13:15] Anita: Yeah.
[00:13:15] Stephanie: Any way you slice it. Um, there, and, and it just, it shows that there's such exceptionalism at the heart of, of gender. It is really this get out of jail free card for all kinds of nonsense.[00:13:30]
[00:13:30] Anita: And, and it's deer in the headlights for the adults who are supposed to be protecting these kids, right? They don't know what to do about it. So they just don't do anything except yell bigot, and this is not an issue, [00:13:45] and move on. They, they have, they have so bought into, or they have been so frightened into buying into this gender idea that they cannot do anything to [00:14:00] stop it.
And, and this is really, I... You know, when you think about it, and that, th- that all of this, they seem to be side effects of this issue, but are they really, or are [00:14:15] they intended effects? Because if you go back to Gayle Rubin and the boy lovers, and the claim also that, uh, she quotes Paquelifia quite a bit.
Paquelifia said something to the [00:14:30] effect of, "Any child old enough to tie her shoes knows whether she wants to have sex It's words to that effect. I am, I'm parafla- phrasing, but that's the gist of it. So [00:14:45] these look like side effects that the adults are trying to avoid even seeing, because the adults who are, who are facilitating all this are not pedophiles.
They're not predators. They're brainwashed, [00:15:00] and they don't know how to cope.
[00:15:01] Stephanie: There are a lot of flying monkeys in the picture.
[00:15:04] Anita: Yes. I-
[00:15:05] Stephanie: A lot of people enforcing ideologies that they, they don't know what they're doing.
[00:15:10] Anita: Right. Useful idiots. They are just a bunch of useful idiots, [00:15:15] and it's amazing how many of them there are.
Uh, there was, uh, apparently, um, a school board meeting in Sonoma, California, uh, I guess within the past week or so, [00:15:30] where a bunch of liberals and Democrats from DIAG and other, um, liberal women's organizations got together and spoke about how the progress flag shouldn't be, you know, the, the trans [00:15:45] flag shouldn't be flying in the school because it represents telling children that they were born in the wrong bodies and all the things that go along with this.
And one school board member, a man, uh, said, [00:16:00] "Stop this nonsense. It's about inclusivity." They cannot hear, even with example after example after example of the parents and the other women who were talking about what was happening to children, what [00:16:15] was happening to them, couldn't hear it because it, you know, it was just, like, too difficult for him to incorporate into his worldview of trans rights are [00:16:30] human rights, protect trans kids, and inclusivity and blah, blah, blah.
So they have lost the ability to protect the vulnerable. They have lost the ability to understand that boundaries are good things. We [00:16:45] need boundaries. They have taken down any boundaries where anyone claims to be the opposite sex.
[00:16:54] Stephanie: I think with the example that you gave, I mean, you nailed it with the world- m- the word [00:17:00] "worldview."
Um, I, I wanna highlight what the two different worldviews here are, right? So starting with our worldview, that this is a legitimate concern to raise. When we raise a [00:17:15] concern that It's harmful to tell children that they're born in the wrong body. By extension, at least, when I'm, when I'm speaking about this, and I would imagine the same is true for you, uh, it's [00:17:30] not just telling children that they are born in the wrong body, it's telling children that there's the remote possibility that any child is born in the wrong body.
Because when you begin to make a tear in the fabric of [00:17:45] reality, there's a huge ripple effect. Exactly. Pandora's box here has been opened. If you tell a young, impressionable child that, that it, it's possible to be born in the wrong body, uh, and then you introduce all [00:18:00] the cultural norms that are rewarding, uh, these identities and the social dynamics and things like that, you are greatly increasing the likelihood [00:18:15] that a given child will, in a very neuroplastic window of their life, come to use this as the explanation and use it as a filter that they're looking through as life happens to them.[00:18:30]
And then it becomes real. And I explain as part of my work how this is happening in the brain, how experience is getting mapped onto that narrative. So our concern here is that these children are n- there's, [00:18:45] there's no such thing as an inherently transgender child or, or person, but rather that this is why the belief is harmful, because if you introduce the belief in the first place, an impressionable, vulnerable child can latch onto that, can make sense of the [00:19:00] world through it, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and now they're on a path to lifelong medicalization.
So you're nodding along going, "Yes, yes, yes, of course," right? It's common sense.
[00:19:10] Anita: Yes.
[00:19:10] Stephanie: But to that man who fights back and says, "No, we're being inclusive," [00:19:15] I wanna name what his worldview is, because it starts with a different assumption. It starts with an assumption that there is a thing called a transgender child That there is a thing called a transgender person, that some people are born in the wrong body.
[00:19:30] And, uh, someone with that worldview is also greatly diminishing in their estimation the likelihood that anyone who does not fall into that category could mistakenly think that it applies to them, right? So, so his belief is people know who [00:19:45] they are, children know who they are, right? And no non-transgender children are harmed in our support of the transgender children, right?
No actual boys or girls are harmed, it's just that we're making space for the [00:20:00] ones who are this thing called trans, which exists objectively in reality, right? Like, that's how they think. And, and those same people, you know, when they're, when they are parents, because many of them are, [00:20:15] they can have major safeguarding blind spots with their own children because they think it, you know, uh, yes, there are parents who are woke who want to believe that they have a trans child, but there are also parents who [00:20:30] are woke who want to believe that they are supportive of someone else's trans child, and they don't realize that it could happen to their child, right?
They're like, "Well, my kid's not trans, so how is [00:20:45] that an issue? What am I doing wrong by making sure my kid knows to include the, and the trans kids and be nice to them and call them what they wanna be called?" And I am curious, I don't speak to these people. They don't like me. But I am really curious what happens to them [00:21:00] when it happens in their own family.
There's gotta be a massive cognitive dissonance.
[00:21:04] Anita: Well, of course. I mean, 99% of the parents probably, or 95% of the parents who I spoke to when [00:21:15] writing Sacrificial Lambs, 'cause I interviewed people all over the country, started out thinking, "Oh, yes, there are trans kids and we must protect trans kids." And, um, then the cult came [00:21:30] for their kid and it was like, "No, my kid's not a trans k- What?"
And there's just this huge shift. But the thing is that- We, we are living in kind of a quote from [00:21:45] 1984. Uh, it's not the party, it's the cult, but told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most important, I guess, command. Uh, I might have [00:22:00] mangled that quote, but that's it. We told everyone, reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.
And with adults, if we can do that to adults, well, imagine a child who still [00:22:15] believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but has some instincts, has some ideas about boundaries and protecting itself, and you take that child and you tell them that, oh, no, your [00:22:30] boundaries are bad. You know, your boundaries, no, they're not inclusive.
Uh, you wanna dress in front of that boy, but he's really a girl. So you're being bad. So you're telling a child that everything that they [00:22:45] instinctually feel, everything that pa- perhaps their parents have taught them is wrong. There's something wrong here. Uh, we're your teachers. We'll teach you the correct way to be.
And you, you instill [00:23:00] unreality. It is very much a cult. It's amazing that it has taken hold to the degree that it has, but it is just so horrifying that they're doing [00:23:15] this to little kids. But, you know, in every big attempt to move society, who do they target? They target the vulnerable, and they target the children.
Uh, it-- [00:23:30] When, uh, I've mentioned this before in other talks I've given, that the Taliban, which completely, you know, they, they completely changed how women can live in [00:23:45] Afghanistan. Most of these guys didn't have access to schools. They were refugees in, in... They were going to schools in Pakistan that were [00:24:00] funded by the Wahhabists, the madrassas, and they were taught this very, very strict, weird idea about what Islam is, and then they went back to Afghanistan.
And [00:24:15] Afghanistan, women in Afghanistan got the vote the year before women in the U.S. Women in Afghanistan were wearing Western clothing. Uh, and of [00:24:30] course, there were the tribes in the rural areas that never gave up the, um, the old ways, but they weren't this extreme. They got these guys when they were kids [00:24:45] And, uh, so, you know, it's, it's, it's very interesting how this, this targeting of the children works because you, you've got people who go through K through 12, and if they [00:25:00] start in a very progressive school, there is no question in their minds by the time they're in fifth grade or sixth grade that, you know, you can be any gender you choose, any sex you choose.
By the time they're in eighth grade, uh, [00:25:15] they're being taught in sex ed classes that some... And I've seen the materials. This is straight from a San Francisco s- school district, eighth grade, ninth grade, that among healthy relationships are [00:25:30] polycules, uh, uh, friends with benefits, and these are not healthy relationships.
This is not... We're not... We haven't evolved to have this kind of relationship as a general, normal [00:25:45] relationship. Uh, we've evolved the way we have in partnership because our children need parental care for much longer than most mammals do, so we need a partner [00:26:00] to go out and hunt and gather. Uh, and the woman needs to stay and nurse the child and feed the child for much longer than, say, a cat or a, you know, another mammal.
So w- [00:26:15] and, and a man who thinks, who can't tell which of these infants is his isn't going to be very willing to expend resources [00:26:30] to care for them, right? So just from, from a biological sense, this makes no sense, but this is queer theory. This is whatever feels good, you do it. And, and whatever sex you wanna be, you are it, [00:26:45] and you can cut off body parts because it'll make you your authentic self.
I mean, I can't even believe I'm, I'm saying these words. I've been looking at this for years and years and years, as you know, and every time I talk about it, it's like [00:27:00] This is insane. How could we possibly have people believing this?
[00:27:04] Stephanie: It's not even whatever feels good, because when you describe some of the more extreme and totalitarian things that they're pushing, it's, it's [00:27:15] not about embodiment or freedom of choice at all.
It, it's about overriding instincts. It's about telling people what they should accept. Um, but what strikes [00:27:30] me when, when I hear you talk about the influence on children, I think There's also another side to that, which is rebellion, right? There, there are these reports I'm sure you're hearing as well of younger [00:27:45] kids who are being brought up with this being the dominant narrative who are pushing back on it, and it's like, what did you think was gonna happen if you went after the kids?
Did you think all the children would just be compliant forever and ever and ever? Or did you think that some of them, [00:28:00] particularly when they hit a certain age, are going to seek autonomy by rejecting that? And then there's also this element of common sense. Um, I don't think children know who they are, but I do think that [00:28:15] kids have a degree of common sense.
Uh, maybe it varies from one individual to the next and, uh, according to personality and age. But I think they're, you know, when you talk about, like, polycules being [00:28:30] glamorized in kids' books and things like this, it's like to the child who grows up with a mommy and a daddy and whose friends, especially the more stable and happy friends, also have a mommy and a daddy, um, the [00:28:45] idea of these different family structures being equally optimal is intuitively doesn't quite sit right, 'cause they know what it feels like to need and love both a mom and a dad.
[00:28:56] Anita: That was a, a great observation about the [00:29:00] rebellion factor. Because when transgression becomes the norm and kids do decide at, you know, as they're reaching adolescence to start, you know, pushing back against things, [00:29:15] then the transgression is the norm that they might be pushing against It's, it's an interesting observation.
Uh, unfortunately, most kids, especially as they [00:29:30] reach puberty, their most important, uh, goal is belonging. I want to belong. I want to have friends. I wanna be one of the cool kids. Um, I don't wanna be rejected. I don't [00:29:45] wanna be the outcast. I wanna have the right sneakers. I wanna have the right ideas. And these ideas are so ingrained in, uh, certainly, uh, [00:30:00] liberal and progressive areas, but also in, in many schools where just there are teachers who are very much involved in this.
It's very difficult for a child to buck that and still have friends.
[00:30:13] Stephanie: Yeah. And the kids who [00:30:15] are savvy are going to learn how to compartmentalize and to kind of go along to get along and hide certain parts of themselves. But I think it'll teach them a powerful lesson about conformity and groupthink.
[00:30:28] Anita: The amazing thing [00:30:30] is that this is the most conformist movement possible, right?
And yet they're calling it progressive and, and radical and, and... But you must agree to everything that the movement says is true. Uh, and if you deviate [00:30:45] in any way, you are in danger of becoming an outcast.
[00:30:50] Stephanie: So we started with the question of why do you care? And obviously, children are a big reason to care.
This [00:31:00] is a big part of the discussion. But going back to that central question, I'm, I'm sure there's a lot of different ways that you could answer that. What are some others?
[00:31:08] Anita: I think the why do you care question is a defense to make you [00:31:15] shut up, because you stop for a minute and you say, "Well, uh, okay, maybe it's true.
Maybe there are only, you know, like-" 2% or now they're... It's actually the last CDC, [00:31:30] uh, survey of kids in, uh, 13 to 17 year age group said, uh, it was like 3.3% said they were trans and 2.2% thought they might be, so that's a lot. [00:31:45] But, uh, why do you care is supposed to make you stop and say, "Oh, yeah, I don't really...
You know, I don't have a dog in this fight. Why do I care? Oh, you know, so you're a bigot, right? Okay. You're, you're interfering with other, other people's lives." [00:32:00] But this is, again, changing all of our society. So, um, if you're a woman in the workplace and you have a man who suddenly decides [00:32:15] he's a woman, now you must share your toilets with that man.
And we know because, and I've, I've written about this on Substack with some really graphic pictures. We know that a lot of these [00:32:30] men who claim to be women go into women's rooms and sit there and masturbate Because this is a thrill for them. These are the autogynephiles, your AGPs. And, um, the [00:32:45] transgression is, uh, part of the thrill.
The, the humiliation of people pushing back is part of the thrill. But just listening to women urinate is part of the thrill. And [00:33:00] they will pick up sanitary products out of the garbage and wear them, and I have images of this that you don't want to see. But so why do you care? Yes, it affects you. It [00:33:15] affects you in every aspect of your life, or it can, or it will.
And, uh, you, you in some... Fortunately, we have a First Amendment, although in many places, uh, New [00:33:30] York in, is one, uh, and Colorado is another, California, they have written laws that if you misgender, quote unquote, in other words, you correctly identify a man as a woman or a [00:33:45] woman as a man, you can face severe penalties.
And granted, yes, we have a First Amendment, but if a state law or the city law says that this is it, unless it goes to the Supreme Court or, you know, a federal court, you have lost that right. [00:34:00] In other countries, they don't have that right at all. So there are people who are going to prison for calling a man a man.
[00:34:09] Stephanie: You gave some really disturbing examples. And, um, [00:34:15] you know, I'm just always surprised that anyone over 30 fell for this stuff. Like, I understand the younger people falling for it. It's just anyone over 30 remembers a time before, right? And, um, so [00:34:30] intuitively, to those of us who remember the before times, um, we remember a time when it was collective commonly held knowledge that some men are [00:34:45] perverts and gross and, and scary and unsafe, and you got to keep them away from the rest of us.
And, and I think the, you know, the common sense position also includes a role for good men, right? That, that men, good, decent men use their [00:35:00] strength in service of protecting the rest of us from the bad men. Um, but, uh You know, y- you don't have to try very hard to get, like, a middle-aged person with common sense [00:35:15] to, uh, ack- acknowledge that perverts exist, right?
And, and so what do you think is happening? I, I understand for the really young, but what do you think is happening for people who should know better, who are in denial about the [00:35:30] reality that there are men who have deviant reasons for wanting access to women's spaces?
[00:35:39] Anita: I don't think there's one answer. Um, I do think that [00:35:45] a big part of it is, as, you know, we've talked before, people are so afraid of being labeled and being outcast.
And there is... And, and again, there are these new rules. There's this new [00:36:00] language. Uh, there's this new, you know, oh, they're not really men. Don't call them men. You're misgendering them. They're really some kind of woman. And it somehow, it just [00:36:15] switches the brain circuit somehow, that people just stop, and it's like, "Wait a minute," you know?
"Am I right about this?" And in that time period where you're asking, "Am I right about this?" that's when the predation happens [00:36:30] because you have, as a good man, you have stopped realizing that it is your jo- job to protect vulnerable women and children from predators who are after them. So, [00:36:45] so it's like that, that school board member who spoke up, you know, "Stop this nonsense," that, that was a middle-aged man.
He probably, as you said, has this worldview. He's developed this worldview, and it's eroded his ability to see [00:37:00] these kids are in danger Because predators are after them, and it is my role as a school board member to care for children in the school [00:37:15] system. He's lost that ability to see that. Something, a circuit just got switched off.
And, uh, let me talk a little bit about Richard Cox, a sex offender in Virginia. It's an interesting, [00:37:30] uh, case because it, it really talks to some of what we're discussing here. Richard Cox, I think his first arrest was something like in 1997, and he's... I, I sent, uh, you a long list of [00:37:45] his, uh, recent arrests in one county in Virginia, but he's been arrested in a couple of them.
So there were, like, 44 arrests in this one, all for, uh, pedophilia, for masturbating [00:38:00] in, in front of women and children, for having child porn, for exposing himself to children. He admitted years ago that this was a compulsion. He just couldn't help it. But that was before the [00:38:15] trans craze. Now, now he's discovered he can claim to be a woman, and it stops law enforcement cold.
So even though he's been [00:38:30] arrested time and time and time and time again, I have a video of, uh, I guess it was, uh, body cams of the cops who arrested him and said, "Oh, you know, we, we, uh, got a call that you were walking around [00:38:45] naked in the gym in front of women and children." He says, "Well, I'm a woman." "Uh, well, but you're a sex offender.
We have it here that you're a sex offender." "Well, that doesn't matter. I'm still a [00:39:00] woman. You can't arrest me for being in a woman's gym if I'm a woman." And you know, the cops didn't arrest him that time They were just stopped. Why do you care? Because this is the kind of thing that [00:39:15] happens, because there's this short-circuiting that happens that people just don't know what to do because they don't know what the rules are anymore.
Even cops don't know what the [00:39:30] rules are. He, uh, went to trial on one of the gazillion charges and made some claims about being a transgender person, and the judge [00:39:45] let him off on one of these for some vague reason related to his so-called agen- identity. Uh, but the appeals court reinstated this, but the judge, throughout his, his, um, [00:40:00] uh, decision, kept calling this man she.
This man doesn't dress as a woman. This man doesn't look... He doesn't attempt to look as... He's just learned that this is his magic word. Now, [00:40:15] I just recently wrote, uh, an article for Our Duties Substack about how in California, Senator Weiner, I'm sure you're familiar with him, got this law passed that basically [00:40:30] any man who claims to be a woman can, who is a, a male prisoner, can claim to be a woman and, uh, get transferred into a women's prison.
And that includes rapists. It includes [00:40:45] pedophiles. It includes-- You cannot question their gender. You cannot question whether, uh, they're sincere. You can't stop them if they are not on hormones or haven't had sur- These are all considered [00:41:00] discriminatory now Uh, there was a, um, a report done by the inspector general's o- office that said, uh, well, with this law, a man who has raped [00:41:15] women cannot be stopped from being transferred into a women's prison just because he's in the habit of raping women.
And so, of course, who gets transferred into the, uh, women's prisons? Suddenly, like [00:41:30] every rapist, every pedophile, everybody who would rather be strip-searched by a man than a woman is on a list to be transferred into women's prisons. And there have been numerous rapes [00:41:45] and numerous sexual assaults, and they now distribute, distribute condoms in the women's prison.
[00:41:53] Stephanie: I'm so sick of this shit.
[00:41:55] Anita: So why do you care? Because once you [00:42:00] claim that anybody can be anything, and all he has to do is say so, you have created a separate class of people who have rights to evade the law. Not the [00:42:15] rights that you and I have, not that we would want to evade these laws, but they have a right to commit rape almost.
Because some... I, I... As I wrote about in Sacrificial Lambs, there was one woman in, I think it was, it was either New Jersey or [00:42:30] Massachusetts, who said that one of these men who was transferred into her prison raped her, and the officials said, uh, "Take it back. He didn't rape you. It was consensual." And when she didn't [00:42:45] take it back, she was punished because they cannot accept that this inclusivity that they are, they have been told to buy into, whether they believe it or they're just, you know, they just, it's their careers are on the [00:43:00] line.
They cannot accept that the predictable has happened That men who rape women and are locked in cells with women go on to rape women.
[00:43:14] Stephanie: [00:43:15] This argument alone is proof that there's no such thing as trans. I mean, there, there are many forms of proof. But the thing is, if trans was a real thing, if it was a real thing, [00:43:30] then if you also had all these random criminals deciding, "Oh, I'm a woman now," you know, prison onset gender dysphoria, as some call it, [00:43:45] right, y- you would see judges going, "Nice try, buddy."
Right? They'd be like, "No, this is for the real trannies. This is for the..." You know. But there is no such thing, right? So I mean, and [00:44:00] then this is one reason why from a, a healthcare standpoint and a psychology standpoint, I also take the position that there's no such thing. Because even when people argue that, [00:44:15] "Oh, there's this rare person who's actually helped by this," right?
Okay. Well, how do you find out who that person is? What official tests or measures do you have that give you that crystal ball that show [00:44:30] you that the life in which this person goes through a social and medical transition is definitely a better, longer, healthier life than the life in which they accept their natal sex?[00:44:45]
There is no test, right? All we know is we, the objective information that we have is that it's life-shortening and health span shortening, and fertility destroying. That's the objective information that we have, [00:45:00] and there's no test to determine who is supposedly helped, and you can't run an AB test on a single individual's life.
It's the same thing with the prison system, right? The fact that people are like, "Okay, you are whatever you say you are." If that's the rule, then it's just [00:45:15] proof that the whole thing is nonsense because criminals are gonna do what criminals are gonna do. Rapists are gonna rape, right? Perverts are gonna perv.
Creepers are gonna creep.
[00:45:26] Anita: Yeah. And, and there's a waiting... They, [00:45:30] they do actually claim to look at them case by case, but they, they don't have any criteria that allows them to keep anyone out. So there's a waiting list of over 1,000 men now who wanna get into the women's prisons. Of course they do. Of course they [00:45:45] do.
[00:45:45] Stephanie: The only ones who are gonna be left in the men's prisons are the gay ones.
[00:45:47] Anita: You don't see the women dying to get into the men's pren- prison, though.
[00:45:52] Stephanie: No. I mean, there are a few who were asked, but- And there, I mean, there was that really tragic case. Do you know about the, the young woman who killed her mother?
Do you know about this case? [00:46:00]
[00:46:00] Anita: Yes. There, there are so many. The, the, the woman, yes. The, and her boyfriend, wasn't
[00:46:05] Stephanie: it? Yeah. Can you tell us anything ab- b- 'cause what I remember reading is that this young woman was 16 when she murdered her mother and [00:46:15] the mother's boyfriend, and ostensibly there were two sources of conflict that provoked the violence.
One of them was the kid's gender, and the other was the mom's boyfriend. And I [00:46:30] don't know very much about the case, but I know that she was tried as an adult and found guilty, and people were commenting, "Looks like she's going to women's prison." Um, it's, it's a very tragic case. I don't mean to make light of it.
Is there anything that you can [00:46:45] tell us about it beyond that?
[00:46:46] Anita: That's not a case that I've focused on. I looked at the, uh, the BC killer case more. He killed his, his mother and his half-brother and then went on to the school to kill, I think it was eight other people, most of them [00:47:00] children. There are so many of these cases now.
Uh, there's another fellow who killed his parents. Um, the, I mean, it, they just keep coming up and, uh, they, they, [00:47:15] where they actually have some record of, uh, what they were complaining about and they survived, it often is the gender issue. Uh, but you know, w- the, I think one of the [00:47:30] things that you're looking at is these kids who go through this supposed transformation, transition They learn, no [00:47:45] matter how much they are told, "This is real, this is real, this is real, this is real," they learn that they've been lied to, and they're enraged.
And in domestic violence cases, it's mostly, you know, [00:48:00] people are not taking out their aggressions on the people who caused their rage. They're taking out their aggressions on the people who are most convenient, who are closest to them. So, you know, I don't know about this particular young woman, [00:48:15] but, um, we've seen a great number of these killings of family members and, and others by these so-called trans killers.
[00:48:30] And I think, you know, I would just speculate that part of the rage is discovering that the lie that you were sold isn't true, and you've gotta take it out on, on somebody.
[00:48:43] Stephanie: Well, this is a, [00:48:45] a lot to speculate about. Um, it's a heavy subject. It's definitely a reason to care. It's a reason to be concerned.
There are people who are already not doing well psychologically. They're being given these [00:49:00] mood-altering chemicals.
[00:49:01] Anita: Yeah, well, you know, uh, if you give a woman testosterone, then, uh, her body's not really equipped to handle those massive doses, and you see the rage [00:49:15] coming out. I mean, I, I spoke to a couple of, uh, women who had since detransitioned, and they talked about how the testosterone worked on their system.
One woman who I, I mentioned the last time, she said, "Gee, the [00:49:30] test..." 'Cause she must have been depressed. "Oh, this made me feel great, and I thought I was having the greatest time, and my wife thought I had a brain tumor." Because testosterone pushes not just... It doesn't just elevate mood, but it [00:49:45] pushes the more aggressive aspects of a personality.
[00:49:49] Stephanie: Your trans-identified kid won't listen to reason because reason isn't what they need right now. They need a parent who knows how to communicate in an empathic yet [00:50:00] strategic manner. ROGD Repair gives you over 120 lessons in the psychology and communication tools that actually work when normal parenting doesn't.
Plus RepairBot, your 24/7 AI coach trained on my entire [00:50:15] body of work, ready to help you navigate tough moments in real time. Visit ROGDRepair.com and use code SOMETHERAPIST2026 to take half off your first month. So Anita, [00:50:30] you've shared with me by email some disturbing images, and I'm not going to play them here on the video, but I'd like to give you an opportunity to describe to our audience using your words what are these images and why you sent them to me.[00:50:45]
[00:50:45] Anita: I wanted to show you where we are at when nobody knows what the rules are, which is pretty much the why do you care? Well, nobody knows what the rules are. Uh, this is from a National Education [00:51:00] Association LGBTQ dinner where, you know, they had their 2026 conference. And I understand why you wouldn't want to show them, but you have to understand that these are educators, and [00:51:15] that's why I was so shocked.
So these are three educators. I'm not sure if they're teachers or they're administrators or they're para- but they are, they are members of this National Education Association teachers' [00:51:30] union, and this is how they showed up to this dinner. One is wearing an absolutely see-through, absolutely see-through outfit with thigh-high boots.
Uh, and, [00:51:45] um, it's, you know, sort of so that you see pubic hair, and there are nipple covers, but I think this is a man. It appears to be a man.
[00:51:56] Stephanie: So it's like the kind of lingerie that you would see on a [00:52:00] mannequin in the window of a sex shop, right? Yes.
[00:52:02] Anita: Yes. I guess that's, that's about it. Then next to him is a woman who's dressed as a man with a, but kind of in a, a, a leather hula scoo- skirt and a mustache.[00:52:15]
And then there's a man dressed as a stripper in a balloon outfit. You know how the old time strippers would wear balloons all over their body and then would prick each balloon, and that would be the striptease? This is [00:52:30] like, I think 19-
[00:52:30] Stephanie: No,
[00:52:31] Anita: I did not know that. ... 1920s burlesque or something like that.
[00:52:34] Stephanie: Okay.
[00:52:35] Anita: This is how, and with purple hair, of course. Another of these people in the education union. Now, again, you know, these [00:52:45] people, people have had fetishes forever. People have done insane things forever, but they've kept it in the closet. Now they're showing up to dinner wearing this stuff. Educators, the people who [00:53:00] are taking care of your children from 8:00 AM to 3:00 PM.
They feel that it's fine to bring their whole selves to work, so to speak. This is what-- This [00:53:15] is, this is how they present themselves. This is what happens when there, there are no-- nobody knows what the rules are anymore. Transgression is good and normal is bad. And what are they [00:53:30] saying to our children?
Well,
[00:53:32] Stephanie: this is, this is what they're saying. For instance, I mean, I'm sure
[00:53:36] Anita: you've heard of this. There was a big brouhaha about this a few years ago where a dean at a high school in [00:53:45] Chicago during Pride Month decided to bring an LGBTQ, whatever, however many letters there are, uh, health group in to talk to the kids.
And what, what did the health [00:54:00] group bring to show the kids? Butt plugs and dildos And they pass them around. And the kids were all giggly and, you know, well, what 14-year-old wouldn't be? And like, "What the heck is [00:54:15] this? How do you use it?" 14 to 18-year-olds. So, um, so this is part of sex positivity, which is another outgrowth of queer theory.
You know, w- this is why they're, they are constantly pushing sex on little kids. [00:54:30] And, um, as you and I have spoken about before, often the girls want to escape this by claiming to be boys. And so it also plays into this whole queer theory nonsense, uh, because it's [00:54:45] frightening to them. But when it's not frightening to them, when they decide to adopt it, I think we might be seeing things like we're seeing with the Jane Doe and the Cornell Seven thing.
Um, [00:55:00] I, I had read everything I could. I've, I've read Jane Doe's statement to the police, the entire six pages that she signed off on, swore to, and then snippets of it. Um, [00:55:15] and it's interesting that she talks about consenting and about, you know, throughout. You know, "They asked me to do a threesome, I said yes.
They asked me to do a foursome, I said no." And the foursome didn't [00:55:30] happen. "I told them we had to stop the sex, and they stopped. I told them we could start the sex again, and they started." You know, all these things, there's obvious verbal consent, but she is also, [00:55:45] from her language, steeped in this sex positivity that they are teaching in high school and apparently at Cornell too.
Because Cornell had, according to this senior who is at Cornell now, who wrote about this on his [00:56:00] Substack, they've had sex toy exhibitions. They've had ethical porn, uh, competitions. So they really p- and they push group sex and everything as if, as long as you get consent, again. There are [00:56:15] no rules. The only rules are, you know, if it feels good, do it.
But- It, you know, it probably physically felt good to this woman while she was involved, and then maybe it got a little scary. But, uh, later, [00:56:30] emotionally, this was a horror for her. And so, um, she looked at what happened to her and she felt violated. She was [00:56:45] violated, but not by the seven boys. Sh- they got consent from her.
Sh- the culprit in this is academia and perhaps whatever she was taught prior to that [00:57:00] in high school about polycules and group sex and everything is good and... This is not a natural situation for a young woman, as you know. I mean, you know, young women are very vulnerable and, and they want to belong [00:57:15] and they wanna be cared for, and they will listen to this stuff about what they're supposed to feel.
But then the morning after, that's not what they're feeling. They're feeling what we normally, instinctively, naturally feel [00:57:30] about having all our boundaries violated And so, yes, I believe that, that Jane Doe and the frat boys, because now they're, they're accused of a rape that they didn't commit because [00:57:45] the school drummed the idea of consent into them and they got verbal consent.
And she said in her, in her statement she gave it, it doesn't matter. This is not, this is not the way [00:58:00] we are meant to be together. This hurts us. It hurts all of us. Especially hurts young women. Um, young men, I mean, naturally, uh, nature wants a man to spread his seed as [00:58:15] widely as possible so that some of his offspring will survive, right?
So he has less of, um, a revulsion to what goes on. And to him, you know, maybe he didn't, [00:58:30] maybe he felt it went too far and one guy did say, "Ugh, it went too far and I should have stopped it," and others were a little repelled, but not to the extent of the woman who had the most to lose in this as a [00:58:45] woman. Uh, and, and these are the things that, that these all come out of this, this transgressive sex is good and normal is [00:59:00] problematized, problematic.
These all stem from that, where our natural instincts are, are, are being-- we're told are just wrong. There's something wrong with us if we have these instincts. [00:59:15] We must be bigots. Uh, we must be normies. We must be prudes instead of we must be human. We're just humans. And, and we have emotions and the-- we can't, [00:59:30] we can't detach those from our bodies.
Uh, we are, we are our bodies. We're not some authentic self that, that all these problematic body parts have to be taken away from so that we can be authentic. [00:59:45] We are authentic. We are who we are. And most of us don't love something about the, our bodies, right? But that doesn't make it the bad body. That makes it just, you know, nobody's perfect [01:00:00] and you have to learn to appreciate what you have instead of being told everything is wrong with you.
Your ideas are wrong, your emotions are wrong, your [01:00:15] instincts are wrong, and your body is wrong. This is what queer theory tells you And this really hurts young people.
[01:00:24] Stephanie: And there's, um, such a disconnect, sort of whiplash-inducing [01:00:30] between these messages that it's supposedly about pleasure and autonomy, but then the reality of what these things look like in practice is very dissociated, very [01:00:45] repressive.
And, um, I mean, you talk about repressing instincts, right? Repressing the part that says no or that questions, that feels disgusted or frightened in situations where that's a normal feeling, [01:01:00] right? So is it about just honoring our feelings? It's like, no, it's about indulging very particular impulses at the expense of other protective [01:01:15] instincts.
[01:01:16] Anita: But when you manage, as the, this movement has managed, to convince people to suppress everything natural and normal that they [01:01:30] feel, then you've created a predator's paradise. Because the predators cannot be stopped, just as that fellow Richard Cox cannot be stopped. I mean, yeah, yeah, he goes to court, [01:01:45] and the judge doesn't know what to do with him.
He-- the cops are called, and they don't know what to do with him because the rules have changed, or there are no rules. We don't know what the rules are. We're told that up is down, down is up, and, [01:02:00] and what we believe or what we feel or what our instincts tell us, these are all wrong. So we are all vulnerable.
We don't know how we may be vulnerable next, as a matter of fact, because [01:02:15] we're not allowed to trust our instincts. We're not allowed to have boundaries. We're not allowed to feel the emotions we actually feel.
[01:02:24] Stephanie: I have, um, sort of a dark thought [01:02:30] that has popped into my head a couple of times lately, and I wanna know what you think of it.
So I've been treating this whole form of madness that you and I [01:02:45] have gotten equally obsessed with in our own ways, um, I've been treating it like a pandemic And as a, like a, a wildfire that [01:03:00] will eventually consume everything it touches and do a ton of damage, but then everything at some point will be burned up, and the fire will be out.
That's how I picture it, right? The same way that we don't do lobotomies anymore, the [01:03:15] same way that other medical scandals have come to an end. Um, but not all medical scandals have come to an end. Like, like, we've changed how we relate with opiates, but that doesn't mean that we don't have opiate addiction anymore.[01:03:30]
You know, doctors are much more hesitant to prescribe opiates. But I guess my, my thought recently has been what if this pandemic is actually becoming endemic? Like, less [01:03:45] virulent, right? Like, like, 'cause this is what we know, what everyone has had to learn how viruses work because of the last six years. So viruses do become less deadly over time, um, but more contagious in [01:04:00] some ways.
Uh, and we eventually coexist with them. Like, COVID-19 is now endemic. It's not a pandemic anymore. It's endemic. It, it's not as dangerous as the earlier versions were. We know what it is, and it might be with us forever now. [01:04:15] Like so, a- and I was thinking about this in relation to abortion. Hear me out. So abortion is a medical technology that opened a pande- uh, Pandora's box.
Just like any new technology could be said to [01:04:30] open a Pandora's box. Um, the, you know, just like birth control, right? Hormonal birth control. These things change the landscape of how humans do what humans do. So there are [01:04:45] people who would eradicate abortion Take it off the map, right? Go back in time so that it's no longer available.
And let's call those people idealists, because I don't think that they just [01:05:00] want women to suffer with unwanted pregnancies and lack of support. That's not what most pro-life people want. They want a world that is, that has a better sexual ethos, um, an ethos of [01:05:15] sexual responsibility, an ethos of protecting children, an ethos of supporting families.
That's what most pro-life people I know believe, right? And so when they think about a world without abortion, they're not just [01:05:30] thinking a world of every pro-choice person's worst nightmare of women being forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term left and right. Like, that's, you know, these are why the two sides won't hear each other, because they have different visions.
Now, you might say that's a [01:05:45] pie-in-the-sky vision, right? A world in which no life is ever terminated in the womb. Uh, but it, but a harmonious version of that world, one in which people can agree that it's good that the technology, let's say, isn't around anymore. Um, I guess [01:06:00] I've been thinking of eradicating gender-affirming care, as it's called.
I don't like that term, but, you know, pediatric sex modification. Pediatric sex trait modification, I believe Leor Sapir is the person who introduced me to that term. Uh, but not just [01:06:15] pediatric. Sex trait modification in general, because it's, it's anti-health, it's anti-life. I'm the sort of idealist that wants it gone forever because it's a Pandora's box that we should never have [01:06:30] opened that I wanna close back up.
I don't want it to be on the, on the table. And so I'm drawing this parallel between sex trait modification and abortion, right? Where I'm saying philosophically If [01:06:45] one can see the harm in a medical technology and argue that we should have never brought that technology about, there, there are going to, there's going to be a subset of people who say, "Let's take it out of the picture, and let's create a world that [01:07:00] resolves the core issue that made people want that in the first place.
Let's create a world where nobody wants this," right? Uh, not, not where we're just leaving... I, I mean, 'cause this is what my critics would say I want, right? They would say, "Oh, you just want trans people to [01:07:15] suffer." You know? And it's like, no, I don't want you to suffer, in the same way that the average pro-life person doesn't want women to suffer.
They want, they want people to make wise decisions about their sexuality, and to focus on protecting children, and creating a world that's [01:07:30] safe for families, right? Similarly, I don't want tr- the people who think of themselves as trans to suffer. I want a world in which we don't have these dangerous and destructive technologies, and where the root issues that drove people to want them can be addressed so that people can heal.[01:07:45]
But when I talk about it potentially being an endemic issue now, I'm thinking abortion is endemic. Like, abortion's not going away. You're never gonna convince... I mean, and, and I say this as someone who [01:08:00] Has deep reservations about abortion, would not choose that for someone. But I, I, I'm, you know, apolitical on the issue.
I'm just saying philosophically, existentially, morally, and spiritually, like, I'm thinking this through in real [01:08:15] time. This is my first time actually saying these thoughts out loud. In the same way that abortion is endemic and people can keep fighting it, but the people who are going to fight it will never convince a big enough portion of the population that the world [01:08:30] would be better off without it, and we just need to support families, and we need to, um, you know, teach a better sexual ethos, right?
Like, there w- are always gonna be people who see it differently, and the technology exists, and the Pandora's Box has been [01:08:45] opened. I'm starting to worry that when it comes to sex trait modification, we might not actually be able to eradicate the medical technology and convince a large enough portion of the population, "No, we don't [01:09:00] need this.
The thing that you think of as trans, as this identity that must be medicalized or else people are gonna suffer, no, there's a different way of looking at that. There's a different way of addressing the needs that you are trying to address through this, and the world would be [01:09:15] better off if we took that medical technology off the table."
So I think if we can't achieve that, Anita, then we reach a state where the pandemic has not been eradicated and it becomes endemic. And it might [01:09:30] become less popular over time. It might not be so crazy as it is right now, but we might actually not be able to get rid of this crazy idea.
[01:09:39] Anita: A- and I agree that we probably will not get rid of it, but [01:09:45] here's...
This is going to sound weird, too. Um, you know, not just in this country, but in countries around the world, suddenly the big push is anti-conversion therapy laws, right? Oh, don't [01:10:00] I know
[01:10:00] Stephanie: it.
[01:10:00] Anita: Anti-conversion, anti-conversion therapy, anti-conversion therapy. By
[01:10:03] Stephanie: the way-
[01:10:04] Anita: But it's,
[01:10:04] Stephanie: it- By the way, I do not identify as a conversion therapist.
Thank you very much.
[01:10:10] Anita: Okay. But what I find interesting about it is, you know, [01:10:15] w- in this queer trans movement, everybody always picks up everybody else's ideas, and they spread like a virus. But it occurs to me that this is a fear response. They [01:10:30] We are finally starting to get some of our media some of the time to tell some of the truth about what's going on.
Only rarely, but occasionally. People are s- [01:10:45] sort of occasionally learning that there is no such thing as a trans child, that we really shouldn't be doing these things to children. First it was, "Oh, you know, they're never doing these procedures on kids." And then, "Oh, [01:11:00] they are, but we need to keep doing them," right?
So now people are a little bit more concerned because they thought it was never happening. Now they're finding out that, yes, it is, and there's a fight to ha- keep it happening. So [01:11:15] there's a pushback from the public in this country for sure, and probably in other countries as well. I haven't kept up as much in other countries, but certainly in s- in several Where [01:11:30] they're feeling queasy, at least about pediatric procedures, right?
So suddenly we've got a push in the UK, in s- I think it's Sweden, in, you know, [01:11:45] uh, in a number of different European countries where you cannot talk about it. In the UK, the idea is that if you're a parent and you even try to persuade your child that, well, maybe you're a boy and you're still a [01:12:00] boy, uh, you can be imprisoned.
It's not a law yet, but it's being pushed. But th- what this says to me is that they're getting afraid that now that people are talking and now that, you know, there's more information, they've gotta [01:12:15] shut us down. They've gotta shut us up. So I don't know, uh, what you think of that, but that, it, it's, it's a horrible thing to, to threaten parents with prison.
And as you know, many [01:12:30] children have been taken by CPS in this country because their parents wouldn't agree to these horrible procedures and drugs. But I think that when you get to the point where you're making it or you're trying to make it [01:12:45] illegal to even say anything, it's, it's a reaction. It's not just an action.
Because before, you had the megaphone and no one was hearing anybody but you, and now every once in a [01:13:00] while, some truth is breaking through, and now you have to legally shut that truth down.
[01:13:05] Stephanie: Yeah, well let's look at the nature of the manipulation here, because first they tried to make it appear as though there [01:13:15] was a consensus in medicine and psychology that this was legit.
And then, you know, people like me speaking out, saying, "Hey, I'm willing to declare as a person with these professional [01:13:30] credentials that that's wrong, and there's a different way of looking at it professionally," right? So then they try to silence us, right? So then that's not a consen- there is no consensus.
There never was any consensus. Um, but whatever [01:13:45] appearance of consensus is there was created not by the normal process by which consensus is formed but by, uh, through control and fear and intimidation.
[01:13:59] Anita: To your [01:14:00] point about it becoming endemic, I think that like all crazy movements, and this is crazy, this is the craziest, uh, eventually Enough reality breaks through [01:14:15] that it is no longer embraced to the degree that it was originally.
It has to, you know, it, it just has to, it, it's-- I think it's already reached its peak and it, it has to start [01:14:30] on the down slope. But again, as you say, the technology exists and, uh, it's not going away. But it may, it, it-- if we, in my [01:14:45] opinion, if we can just In this country at least, and I, I don't know what they'll do in other countries, but in this country at least, we can at least agree that this is a belief system, and belief systems are not to be taught [01:15:00] to children in school.
Then we can safeguard children a little bit during their most formative years. But then some of the worst offenses in this gender [01:15:15] insanity happen at the college level when a kid is away from home for the first time and inundated, and mom and dad are not there. Free, everything's free, you know, and, and, um, so there's, there's still that danger.
At this [01:15:30] point, I don't understand why anyone would pay, like, 50, 60, $100,000 a year to send their kid to college, uh, unless they're going to become an engineer or a doctor or some profession. If you're just sending [01:15:45] them for the college experience, don't. Don't.
[01:15:49] Stephanie: Well, to play devil's advocate, let me push back and say, "Well, that's easy for you to say, Anita.
You, um, you got to go to college during a different [01:16:00] time." And, and so what do we say, right? 'Cause I mean, I have these tough conversations every week about, like, you know, using financial leverage, and that's, that is not a complete meal in and of itself, right? That is a part of a [01:16:15] balanced diet. It's not the whole thing.
You know? It's, it's not the whole intervention. But when the purse strings are one of the few things left that mom and dad are controlling, then sometimes they have to be willing to leverage that [01:16:30] while also thinking through carefully how that's gonna land and how to communicate about it. Um, so I mean, I know many parents who are really struggling with...
A- and especially, you know, some of them really value education. Some of them are very well-educated [01:16:45] themselves and raise their kids valuing education, only to find themselves at this crossroads where they are not excited about sending their kid off to college, and they always thought they would be. Then I have other clients who maybe, uh, you know, they don't place as high of a value on education.
Maybe they're [01:17:00] working class, or they do manual labor, and, you know, they've always been perhaps a little skeptical, um, of academia. And, um, you know, and they're just all the more disinclined seeing the direction that it's [01:17:15] taken. But what, what do we say to these families? Because there has been an inflation of education, where now a bachelor's degree is basically the floor.
Yeah. Um, w- But- What would you say to them?
[01:17:26] Anita: Well, the thing is that, it, as you say, the ba- there [01:17:30] is so much change going on in the professional arena that, um, a bachelor's degree may get you a job where your most important, um [01:17:45] A, a duty is to say, "You want fries with that?" Uh, because it really, it, what, unless it's a bachelor's degree in something, unless it's going to prepare you for something, unless you [01:18:00] are h- you're in mathematics, you're in, you know, you're in engineering, you're in, you're moving toward medicine, something, what you're getting in college is not the well-rounded education that you got.
You're [01:18:15] getting indoctrinated. Uh, Peter Boghossian said something in a, a Substack post of his a week or two ago, however long ago, and it, it really, you know, uh, stuck with me. He said that they're, they're [01:18:30] not being taught to think anymore in college. They're being taught to label, and once you put a label on something, uh, it's...
You can put it in the good or bad box, and that's it. You [01:18:45] don't think about why. So the, the reason I said that about education is because it's not education at this point. Most of these schools are so involved in indoctrinating, and they're, you know, [01:19:00] they're so steeped in this nonsense that what your kid is getting is not an education.
Your kid is going to lose quite a bit, um, if [01:19:15] he or she falls into the cult trap. And I, you know, I, I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I mean, I've seen what's, what's happened to so many parents who I've spoken to. They [01:19:30] were able to manage things well enough and keep things reasonable until the kid went off to school, and then, gone.
The kid's on hormones. You can't stop it. Uh, the kid's in the, you know, the LGB [01:19:45] kid club. The, the kid, he is now calling himself a girl, and his girlfriend is now calling herself a boy, and they're together. So they're a straight couple, but they're indoctrinated by this culture that is [01:20:00] just, you know, it's overtaken so many of these schools.
I think it was Mount Holyoke. I could be wrong. Please, Mount Holyoke, don't sue me if I'm wrong about which one. But, um, that where more than [01:20:15] 80% of the student body claim to be LGBTQ something. Uh, Oberlin was 60%. I mean, this is ridiculous. This is insane. This is what is happening in college today. So if you have [01:20:30] a goal, if you have a career in mind, and you're preparing for it, and your kid is preparing for it, sure.
But if you're just sending your kid to college 'cause that's what you do after high school, think again '
[01:20:44] Announcer: cause this is
[01:20:44] Anita: [01:20:45] not
[01:20:45] Announcer: education
[01:20:46] Stephanie: I would advise parents of younger teens to start thinking about this now. Uh, unfortunately, like you're saying, the situation does grow out of control, and a lot of kids, mostly [01:21:00] boys, but girls can do this too, they don't even bother, quote unquote, "coming out" as trans or whatever to their parents.
They don't say a word about it. They spend a lot of time in their room on their [01:21:15] computer being a good kid who doesn't stay out past curfew or binge drink or do anything that their parents think would represent danger. Meanwhile, they're getting into all sorts of dangers online, formulating this whole plan to go [01:21:30] off to college on their parents' dime, and once they're there, invent a whole new identity and start medicalizing.
And by the time the parents find out, they have, you know, they're on the lease. They've paid for the year of [01:21:45] tuition, room, and board. It's You know, and when I see parents moving toward that time, they often need help in coaching really thinking through if you do wanna have boundaries, how would you plan to enforce them?
'Cause it's [01:22:00] one thing to say, "Oh, we're not paying if you're medicalizing." Okay, but have you thought through if you start paying and then they start medicalizing exactly what you're gonna do to pull the plug, how many tens of thousands of dollars you're willing to be out? That's the sort of thing you really have to [01:22:15] think through.
And it's like I said, uh, in my conversation with Christopher Kolibi, which came out recently, um, we talked about doing a controlled burn or running toward danger. We were talking about that there are [01:22:30] times when some kind of crisis is inevitable. As a parent, you do have some say in what kind of crisis and when and how it goes down, and sometimes you actually have to be willing to create a managed crisis in order to face these issues [01:22:45] sooner rather than later.
[01:22:46] Anita: Yeah, it's a scary time to be a parent, and I mean, I feel for these people 'cause most of them have no clue until, you know, and then it's already [01:23:00] happened. Then what do you do? Then, you know, they talk to you, but, you know, you don't wanna get to that point . You know, you want to be able to predict, and you can't because there's so much going on.
And one of the things that [01:23:15] they are told in school is find safe adults to talk to, and the implicit message is not your parents. Parents aren't safe. Oh, and look, be- before I f- I, I just wanna-- [01:23:30] Speaking of that, this is a book written by somebody in Oregon, a little kids book about choosing your own family.
[01:23:39] Stephanie: So the title- For kids ... of the book on the screen, for those who are just listening, is A Kids Book About [01:23:45] Chosen Family by Maddie Bor- Borden, Borden?
[01:23:48] Anita: Mm, I'm not sure. There are so many books that hi- this is for very little children. It's a picture book. So many books that, that- [01:24:00] Actually look to erode the family bond, and the lessons that they're taught in the earliest, uh, grades are taught to-- they're taught to erode the family bond.
And, [01:24:15] um, a mutual friend of ours or acquaintance of, of ours who I interviewed for Sacrificial Lambs, whose name, she's pseudonymous in the book, so I won't mention her name, but spoke about how the, um, the [01:24:30] younger teachers and social workers and others in the school system where she works really believe that the parents are the problem and that they have to rescue these children from them.
So this is all part of the same thing. I mean, people do not [01:24:45] understand how far, how deep, how wide it goes. They think, for the most part, that what they read and what they see and what their friends tell them is true, that there are these magical children, they're called [01:25:00] trans kids. They need our love or they might kill themselves and, and you know, you just have to support them and pretend along with them that they're boys or girls and maybe they were born in the wrong whatever.
Um, [01:25:15] they have no clue how deep and how wide and how insidious this is
[01:25:23] Stephanie: Well, this has been a depressing conversation.
[01:25:29] Anita: Oh, [01:25:30] uh, one, one more as long as we're talking books. Um, this got to me. All right, so this is a book that they are reading to children in the Chicago school system, among certain other [01:25:45] school systems too
[01:25:50] Stephanie: It's called Introducing Teddy
[01:25:56] Anita: It's about a little boy and his teddy bear, [01:26:00] right? It's a picture book. And there's the usual, they play together, do- they do this, and then one day, the teddy bear says to his friend, "Thomas the teddy took a deep breath. [01:26:15] 'I need to be myself, Errol. In my heart, I've always known that I am a girl teddy, not a boy teddy.
I wish my name were Tilly, not Thomas.'" [01:26:30] This is, this is story hour. This is just... I mean, it's constant. They are constantly pushing this stuff on the youngest children on up through college. It just, it, it just [01:26:45] amazes me that this is happening in the schools, and a lot of parents don't know it, and the parents who do know about it believe it's inclusivity It's not.
It is brainwashing
[01:26:59] Stephanie: [01:27:00] Just a, a note of clarification. Earlier you said that that's when people contact me, right, when things get to a crisis point, and that is true. But if you are a parent listening, and you've ever thought that you might need my [01:27:15] help, and you're not at that crisis point, I want you to know I vastly prefer to work preventatively, to work early in the process while there's still time.
Yes, I get people [01:27:30] in crisis all the time. Am I willing to help them? Yes, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and unfortunately, a lot of people do kind of keep their head in the sand or kick the can down the road or just they don't wanna [01:27:45] see where this is going. Um, so I did just wanna make that note.
Oh, and while I'm making requests, I'm supposed to be reminding people to rate and review this podcast. So especially if you're listening on Spotify, 'cause that's where the trolls like to give me one-star ratings [01:28:00] to try to drag down my average. So if you are listening on Spotify, please, if you haven't yet, hit that little five-star button.
Go ahead and do me a favor. But if you're on Apple, you can write a review. If you're on YouTube, you can subscribe and leave a comment, and so on.
[01:28:12] Anita: Yeah, I think that, you know, uh, you're making [01:28:15] a very good point to parents, and I hope they do listen because you don't want to wait until you have to rescue your kid.
You want to be prepared because this is [01:28:30] everywhere.
[01:28:30] Stephanie: Well, um,
[01:28:33] Announcer: Now that I've depressed you entirely.
[01:28:36] Stephanie: Uh, Anita, what, um, what can we say to give listeners hope or maybe ourselves? 'Cause by the way, you look and sound [01:28:45] great for someone who is sick with a virus right now. Like, I cannot tell. I think you've done great.
[01:28:49] Anita: Well, I think one of the things that I hope people will take away from this is now that you've heard some of this, you have some tools [01:29:00] that you can use when someone says, "Why do you care?" I mean, these are not pleasant things to talk about, but if you realize how deep and how wide and how far this goes and how much [01:29:15] everyone is or will be affected by it, you have some tools to talk to people.
Maybe you have a friend who is a fellow, you know, y- your kids are in the same school, and the, this kid, this parent [01:29:30] thinks it's no big deal. Maybe you have something that you can share with this parent to show that, yeah, this, this is kind of something that you need to know about. Um, 'cause we are We are in [01:29:45] this situation in large part because we were complacent, because we thought we were being good people, we didn't realize the danger, we didn't see the risks, and then they just came up and they walloped us.
[01:29:59] Stephanie: [01:30:00] Okay. Well, I hope that that helps someone. And for what it's worth, Anita, um, I don't know if you've looked at the comments on our previous conversations, but people really like hearing from you.
[01:30:11] Anita: Oh, I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad to hear that. [01:30:15] Uh, uh, I should go look. Yeah.
[01:30:18] Stephanie: All right. Well, where can people find you?
[01:30:20] Anita: anitabartholomew.com is my website, and, uh, the book is Sacrificial Lambs, and, [01:30:30] uh, you can get it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and probably you can, uh, you would probably have to, uh, ask your local bookstore to order it for you because this is, this is one of those forbidden books [01:30:45] that, uh, they won't put on a shelf.
[01:30:48] Stephanie: And, uh, and as I have mentioned elsewhere, I recently rebuilt my websites, and, uh, that includes my bookshop, which is at [01:31:00] sometherapist.com/bookshop, and, uh, contains a list of every book written by someone who's been on my podcast, plus other books I recommend. Oh. And, and Anita's book, for those in the [01:31:15] audience, is both going to be in the show notes and at sometherapist.com/bookshop, along with all my other recommendations, all my other guest's books.
And when you buy through one of those links, I get, like, 50 cents or something and, uh, it helps support the [01:31:30] podcast.
[01:31:30] Anita: Oh, well, great. Then order, order on Stephanie's, uh, website- ... by all means.
[01:31:36] Announcer: All right, Anita, it's great to see you. Thanks again for joining me.
[01:31:39] Anita: Great seeing you.
[01:31:41] Stephanie: Thank you for listening to You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist.[01:31:45]
If you enjoyed this episode, kindly take a moment to rate, review, share, or comment on it using your platform of choice. And of course, please remember, podcasts are not therapy and I'm not your therapist. [01:32:00] Special thanks to Joey Pecoraro for this awesome theme song, Half Awake, and to Pods by Nick for production.
For help navigating the impact of the gender craze on your family, be sure to check out my program for parents, [01:32:15] ROGD Repair. Any resource you heard mentioned on this show, plus how to get in touch with me, can all be found in the notes and links below. Rain or shine, I hope you will step outside to breathe the air [01:32:30] today.
In the words of Max Ehrmann, "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful [01:32:45] [01:33:00] world."