The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

In days of old, if you wanted to learn to hunt you would ask a friend or relative to show you.  In todays society not everyone has the opportunity and learning to hunt can be rather intimidating if you don’t have someone to show you the ropes.  Thats is what we talk about today with seasoned hunters Dennis Zentner and Jens Cuthbert.     Dennis spent years in commercial fishing, is the past regional president of the British Columbia Wildlife Federation, is the current president of the Vancouver Gun Club, is a CORE Hunting instructor, and has been hunting and fishing for as long as he can remember.     Jens exudes passion and positivity towards hunting in every aspect of his life.  Having worked as a commercial hunting guide in the United States, Jens is a sponsored and endorsed hunter and has the fantastic Instagram feed “604backwoods” which will inspire even the most modest hunter.  Jens now works at Stillwater Sports in Ladner, B.C. and spends his working and free time honing his skills and helping others enjoy our great outdoors and natural resources.   Both Dennis and Jens are responsible for helping hundreds of young folk get into hunting through the Waterfowl Heritage Days and I guarantee you, whether you are a seasoned hunter or just curious about learning more, you will find great value in this podcast.     

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

Silvercore Podcast.

Join me as I discuss
matters related to

hunting, fishing,
and outdoor pursuits

with the people in
businesses that comprise

of the community.

If you're new to
Silvercore, be sure to

check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

you can learn more about
courses, services, and

products that we offer,
as well as how you can

join The Silvercore
Club, which includes 10

million in North America,
wide liability insurance

to ensure you are
properly covered during

your outdoor ventures.

Before I get rolling,
I want to let everyone

in on an exciting new
website that Silvercore

is involved with called
AnchoredOutdoors.com.

If you like hunting,
fishing, foraging,

cooking, homesteading,
etc, you will love

AnchoredOutdoors.com
I highly encourage

you to check it out.

You won't regret it.

This is a special episode
where I sit down with

Jens Cuthbert and Dennis
Zentner, two extremely

passionate ambassadors
for hunting and fishing.

And we discuss tips
and tricks, ethics

and local knowledge,
and in particular how

to be successful when
waterfowl hunting.

These two are pros of
what they do, and you'll

have the opportunity
to literally experience

what it's like to be
a local sitting at the

counter of Stillwater
Sports, a small town

sporting goods store
situated in Ladner, BC.

Sitting down with
Dennis Zentner

and Jens Cuthbert.

Dennis is a former
commercial fishermen.

He's a current president
of the Vancouver Rod

and Gun Club, he's
a past president

of region 2 BCWF.

He's an avid hunter and
angler who I met as we

both sit on the hunting
advisory committee for

the city and having shot
beside him in Fort St.

John, I can attest,
he's a heck of a good

shot in his own right.

Welcome, Dennis.

Thank you.

Welcome, Dennis.

I've also got
Jen's Cuthbert now.

Jen's has worked as a
hunting guide in the

States in the past.

I know Jen's as a person
who lives to hunt.

If you haven't seen
his Instagram feed,

make sure to check that
out, it's 604Backwoods.

He's got over 17,000
followers on there, it's

got some great content.

He's sponsored and
endorsed by Drake

Waterfowl and dive bomb
industries and currently

works a couple of doors
down for the Silvercore

head office, working at
the local gun store and

Ladner Stillwater sports.

Welcome Jens.

Thanks Trav.

Thanks for having
me here, bud.

So I figured we'll
kind of get things

rolling here and get a
little, a little bit of

background on you two.

Why don't we start
with you, Dennis?

Sure.

Commercial fishing, you
did that for awhile.

Yeah.

I started when I was in
high school and I got

the opportunity to work
on a stain boat for one

of the local families.

Worked with that for a
few years and then what

got into the gill netting
side of it and I got to

do some gill netting.

So I got to work up
and down the coast and

thought it was a, a
really good opportunity

to see what the coast
of British Columbia had.

We went all the way
from, say, Bella Bella,

down all the way back
down to the border here.

And so I got to see
some pretty neat spots

of British Columbia.

Very cool.

How long did
you do that for?

Bout six years total.

So you've, you've
got some chops?

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

How good were you
on the boat when the

sea's were rough.

You know, in all those
years, I only got

ever got a little bit
green in the gills

at the sand heads.

Really?

Yeah.

I don't know all the
places to be on the coast

to think it was probably
the roughest spot I was.

The only spot I ever
felt a little bit

green in the gills.

Pretty gnarly there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The sandheads was the
reason I had to get a

larger motor on my boat.

Yeah, we've been out
there in tin boats

before nine nines
and 12 footers.

I did it this year alone.

I had my little 15
footer and my and my

40 horse out there just
cause my big boat was

in use at the time so.

Yeah, uncle Jack's
got you beat.

He's always out there
around the green can

there and is nine
nine and 12 footer.

I don't know
how he does it.

Diehards, diehards.

Hardcore.

And Jens, commercial
guiding, can you tell

me a bit about that?

Ahh, well just like
everything else,

it's a once in a
lifetime opportunity.

I had a couple buddies
that had a guide service

there when I was down
in the States for

college baseball, and
then the summer months

or the spring months
I used to go and help

him out and his guide
service and that's what

kinda really put me
on to chasing birds.

I mean, I always did
it since I was a kid.

But really seeing how
much the sport demands

and how much time, how
much effort it takes

to get up every day.

And, and you know, you're
getting paid to do that

instead of just going
out there leisurely, you

got a little bit more
extra to put onto it so.

You say that's something
you've done all your

life, just being out
there chasing birds?

You know what, people
think I'm crazy, but you

know, I'll be sitting on
the beach in Hawaii and

there'll be like, what
are you thinking about?

And that's all I'm
really thinking

about is the birds.

Birds and what they're
doing and how they're

doing it and where they
are and how everybody

else is doing too, so.

I don't think
that's that crazy.

Yeah, exactly.

One, one fallower
to the next, right.

Yeah.

That's how you learn.

That's how you
learn what they do.

Yeah.

Pay attention.

Lots of people got
addictions, mines,

mines hunting or mines
just being out there.

Yeah.

Especially with company,
good company or my

dog or anything like
that, with you Trav,

with anybody right?

So Cuthbert yeah,
there's a BBC article

and they're talking
about this Cuthbert.

And he instituted
the first local laws

for bird protection.

I did not.

I didn't know that.

So the eider duck, I
guess there is a, an

area off the UK and this
guy by the name of Saint

Cuthbert goes over there
and he sees people are

eating the eider ducks
and eating their eggs.

And so he implemented
the first bird laws in

the world, and it was
about 86 or 875, 80.

And they've got a named
the duck after him, they

call it the Cuddy duck
or the St Cuthbert duck.

Cool.

So anyways, I thought
it was interesting

that birding is
so in your blood.

And

Must be related.

It's gotta be.

Neat little side note.

I mean, that's
good that he's

protecting the birds.

I don't know, we like
to harvest the birds,

but at the same time we
like to do our part in

conservation, whether
it's donating to the

local clubs or helping
the farmers or down

at the DU sanctuary,
anything right?

Or the rifle sanctuary.

Do your best and
volunteer and more

about than just killing
the bird and eating it

and stuff like that.

It's a about having
a secure future for

the up and comer guys
that are going to get

into the sport too.

Well, well, let's
talk about the up and

comers, because I look
at you guys as sort of

the old boys, the old
school club, the the

old guard in Ladner.

Now, Ladner has a very
prolific hunting and

fishing community.

And a lot of people
grew up around

hunting and fishing.

They grew up on the
ranges, they know the

rules, they know the
etiquette, they know

how to get into it.

But there's a lot
of people who are

looking to get into
the sport that don't

know this etiquette.

They don't know what
they're doing out there.

And I have to imagine
working in a gun store,

there's going to be some
sort of a weird dichotomy

between, you want to see
more hunters out there.

You want to see people
getting into the sport.

Just not, not in
your hunting spot.

I don't want to see
people coming into my

hunting spot perhaps if
they're not doing things

properly, if they're not
showing proper etiquette,

if they're, obviously
being unsafe, but a lot

of new guys out there,
they just don't know it.

That's right.

Yeah.

I think we've
all seen it,

I think, I think that
goes to say for a lot of

things in life I mean,
you come to, come to

the ice rink and you'd
never played hockey

before and I don't know
a that you got to shower

with the boys after or
something like that.

Sure.
You know what I mean?

Like it's something to
do with getting to know,

stepping in the ring,
getting to know the ropes

and stuff like that.

And it can be
intimidating, but I

mean, if you got a decent
friend group and guys

around you and stuff like
that and good general

public awareness and
stuff, then, then you

start to pick it up.

Right.

Better.

So I see people who
have decent friend

groups, but none of
their friends are into

hunting or into fishing.

I remember when I
moved to Ladner, course

every odd year we've
got the pink settle

run up the Fraser, and
I was super excited

to go out and just be
able to fish off the

shore here real close.

This is before I had a
boat, and I watched a

fellow and he's casting
out and then you see him

reel reel reel, yank,
reel reel reel, yank.

And I look over at him,
said what are you doing?

Said well this is how
you're supposed to

fish for them, somebody
else showed me how to

do this when I came
here and he was being

pretty successful.

Said, well, you know,
you're not supposed to

foul hook them, like
that's against the law.

Yeah.

He's like what
do you mean.

I said well, what
you're doing, they

call that snagging.

He had no idea.

That's the Fraser
River twitch.

Exactly.

That's what they call
the Fraser River twitch

or, yeah, everyone
calls it that, I guess.

Yeah.

I think, I think what
that boils down to is

,they maybe didn't have
a, a mentor or a uncle

or a granddad or father
that, that, that took

them out and showed
them the the proper way.

Right.

They just went down to
the river bank like you

did travel, and then
just kinda just watched

what w w what some of
the other fellows were

doing and well, that
doesn't look that hard.

No.

Kind of followed suit.

Unbeknownst to
him that he, he's

not doing illegal.

Right.

You know, he's, he's
trying to foul hook with

that style of fishing.

Yeah.

And unfortunately,
you know, some people

get caught and fined
because they're doing

it wrong, and they're
just like, well, I just

learned from the guy
down on the beach there.

So luckily for myself
and Jen's, we grew up

with, with mentors that
taught us the right way.

So, you know, and I
think that's part of

our job as, as hunters
and fishers to see if

you see something wrong,
go, Hey man, like I

think you're doing it
a little bit backwards,

let me help you out.

Some guys will take
you up on the offer

and some will tell
you to beat it, right?

So hopefully the, you
know, some of the people

I've come across over
the years doing things

backwards, took it to
heart, what we had to

say, and started to
do it the correct way,

the more legal way.

I think tim, times
have kinda generally

changed over the
last couple of year.

Evidently.

Like this world is
going so fast that,

you know, back in maybe
the eighties and early

nineties and stuff
like that, you're,

you're calling us the
Cavaliers of, of of

this time of hunting
and stuff like that.

Dennis was there way
before me, he was

there when dinosaurs
roamed the earth

and stuff like that.

I got a little bit of
of everybody by growing

up, but I think people's
time is, is so important

to them that a lot
of the time that they

don't take the time to
show other people how

to do it or they don't.

They don't have the
time to do it, whether

it's someone's dad or
grandpa or a big brother

or something like that.

It's just, these days
and age, the world's

moving so fast that you
gotta try and keep up.

And I mean, let's face
it, hunting and fishing

is not looked at the
same these days and

age as it was back in
the eighties or the

nineties, how important
it was to the lifestyle

of the people now.

Right.

Right.

So, I mean, back in the
eighties and nineties you

didn't have social media.

You didn't have, you
didn't even have cell

phones back then.

You had to go run down
three blocks to knock

on your neighbor's door
to say, Hey, Tommy,

you want to go down
there and fish down to

the river or something
like that, right?

So I think anyone who
wants to join anything

like fishing, hiking,
outdoor or anything like

that too, you obviously
get into it by having

someone there with you
and hopefully they guide

you down the right way.

It's whether or not
they've been taught

the right way so.

Like Dennis says, we're
just lucky that we grew

up with different family
friends and, and dads and

brothers that all kind
of grew up in the same

era as us too right so.

Well with the social
media, I see people

even just locally here
posting up on Facebook

saying, Hey, I want
to, I want to get

into hunting, somebody
want to take me on and

show me some spots?

And would you guys
say that's a good way

to approach it or.

I don't, I, I think
it, yeah, I think it's

putting your neck out
there, but I mean,

these days and age you
kinda got to do that.

But, you got to think
logically behind it.

No guy's gonna
really give up

his honey hole or.

Right.

No guy's really going to
show you the proper way.

A lot of the things,
you can't be spoonfed.

You gotta go out there
and grind it yourself

and kind of figure
out a way and then

surround yourself
with good people too.

So where would you say
a good first step for

somebody, eh, let's
just look in the Lower

Mainland and, and talking
about bird hunting.

What'd be a good first
step if somebody really

wanted to, they've,
they've gone through

their training, they've
done their hunter

education, they've gotten
themselves licensed.

They got their FWID,
should they join a-

I would say talk to one
of the local gun clubs,

you know, whether it's
Pitt Meadows or Delta

Ladner or, I mean,
even Vancouver Club,

I mean we're more of a
trap club but there's

lots of hunters there.

Ridgedale, Abbotsford,
all the clubs, all, all

through the Valley or you
know even in the North,

there's water fowlers
all through the province.

But a good first
step would be to

go to the club.

You know, join, ask
some questions, maybe

one of those guys
will mentor you.

I don't have a problem
taking a guy under

my wing and showing
them, showing them the

ropes on how to fish
and hunt and whatnot.

But like Jen says, you're
not really going to

take them to your, your
top secret spot because

we've been stung before.

You take a guy
there and then.

Oh, Hey, this is kind
of my spot, keep it

under your hat to
keep it under wraps.

And you go back and you
know, a month later, or

even the next season, and
here's this This fellow.

Here's this fella in
the exact same spot

you took him with his
buddy or two buddies

and all of a sudden,
well, that spots ruin.

And unfortunately with
the way times are now

with social media,
it's ruined a lot of,

a lot of good spots.

You know, guy takes a
photo and they recognize

the background, oh I
know where that is.

Or they're on there and
like Hey, I caught this

big fish at, you know,
such and such a lake and

all of a sudden you go
back there and there's,

it used to be you and
maybe two or three

other fishermen there,
and all of a sudden you

go there and there's
15 there now, right.

And the guys don't even
go out and look for

the birds, they just
look for the background

in the social posts,
that's all it is.

It's called internet
scoutin now Dennis.

That's for sure.

They don't go in their
boat and go out and

look for birds and they
don't go out in the road

and put 200 clicks on
there to the Valley and

back and figure it out.

Now guys just look
for backgrounds

and screenshots and
stuff like that.

Oh, and so you'd look
at, look at some of

Jen's photos of his
birds, and he's a

successful hunter and
most of that is scouting.

So step number one
would be to join a club.

Step number two
is once you, think

okay, I'm going to
be a water fowler.

One of the best things
you can do is put

miles in the truck,
go scouting, find

the birds, and start
banging on doors.

The worst the farmer can
say is, no, I'm sorry,

I've already given
permission, or there's no

hunting on my property.

Right.

You know, if there's,
if there's a spot where,

you know, if you've
got a big chunk of

property and he might've
get already given

permission to maybe two
or three other fellows.

Well, there's a couple
of guys that hunt

here, so as long as
you can all get along,

it won't be a problem.

So, I mean, that's,
that's the thing, people

for some reason nowadays
are scared to go and bang

on a farmer's door and
ask, ask for permission.

Well, yeah, no one, no
one likes rejections.

I mean, I mean, going
up to Cindy at the

high school dance and
asking her to dance

and she snubbed you
for, no, I mean, that's

pretty tough one to get
over, it's still in my

grade 11 year right?

But.

Well I can, I can,
I can tell ya.

Yeah, I could tell you.

I mean, I maybe go
one for 10 on farmers'

doors some, some years
and sometimes you go

10 for 10 on knocks.

But I mean, you can,
hunting is, either you're

in or you're, you're kind
of in or you're not in,

you know what I mean?

So, I mean, if you really
want it that bad, you can

make it happen that bad.

I mean, you can.

You can go as far as
following guys out of

the boat launch from the
morning, you can go as

far as picking out the
most ugly guy at the

boat launch and asking
them where the ducks

are and stuff like that.

But I mean, when I
was young, we'd haul

sacks of potatoes from
the bar and all the

way out to the, the
roadside, just for the

farmer, just, just for
a chance at permission

and half the time he'd
invite you in for a

cup of tea and say no.

Right.

And then you just sit
there and you'd been

there, go home and cry.

Yeah, exactly.

Been there.

Yeah.

So I mean,
what do you do?

I mean, the best
advice that I could

say is, but boots on
the ground go out and

scout just, just in bird
hunting in particular

and stuff like that.

But don't be afraid
of rejection.

Don't be too to upfront,
to upcoming, you

know, be respectful.

Don't be too, too pushy
or anything like that.

It'll come when it comes
and, and just no when the

right timing is to do it.

I mean, you're going to
go knock on a farmer's

door at six o'clock at
night and he's having

dinner with his wife,
he ain't going to give

you permission right.

Not gunna be happy.

Right.

Or you pull them off
a tractor when he's

seeding in the field,
he ain't going to

be too happy right.

So, I mean, pick
your spots, show

up with a bottle.

I dunno, that
usually helps.

You know what, I
found that one works.

Yeah, that works well.

And I mean, I've, I've
given away bottles

even with no permission
and come back the

next year and they
give you permission

because they remember
who you are right.

Half the guys
don't do that.

The other thing I find,
if you get permission

or if you don't, it's
good to go back and

upkeep that relationship.

But if you get
permission, there's

nothing stopping you
from bringing another

bottle again afterwards
or at the end of the

year and saying, Hey,
thanks very much, for

ensuring that you clean
everything up that you

bring onto that field.

To reporting any
anomalies you might

see out there to the,
to the landowner.

I mean, there's a
responsibility, I think,

on the hunter that's
going to be out there

too, if they get that
permission, to maintain

that relationship.

Well that's a bond that
you start with the, with

the landowner, when you
get permission there,

like you say Travis,
you know, if you find

something on the property
that's not right.

You know there's a tree
across a fence, or a

fence is down or, you
no ditches sloughed

in, or beavers made
a dam or whatever.

If you go on and mention
that to the farmer

and then they'd be
like, okay, this guy

kind of understands.

Right.

So you, you, you build
a relationship with

that farmer and then
over the years it

becomes more than that.

Now, now all of a sudden
you're, there, there's

friendships involved
and all sorts of things.

And we've done it in the
past where you, you bring

them a piece of smoked
salmon and a bottle, like

you were saying, or even
even offer him some of

your, your harvest right.

Like a well,old Dunkin
Montgomery there, I

mean, he always kind
of enjoyed it if we're

like, Hey, would you
like a snow goose?

Or, you know a
brant or whatever.

Pheasant, whatever.

Yeah.

You know, so you always,
and quite often he

would take you up on
that offer and I'd go,

how many do you want?

Well, a two
would be fine.

So, you know, we'd
either dress him up real

quick for him, or he'd
dress them himself and

it's okay, just leave
him in the feathers,

I'll deal with it.

But quite often we'd
run back to the tailgate

and dress the bird for
him and hand him and his

wife, you know, two big
fat mallards or a couple

snow geese or something.

And you know, he was
quite happy with that.

And in that example, he's
one of the harder farmers

to get permission from.

Nobody.

Yeah.

Yeah.
Very few guys.

Wow.

I mean, and in my
industry now I've, I'm

in construction and
when, when a Dunkin

Montgomery was alive, I
ditched all his ditches.

Oh yeah.

For him right.

And you know, even, even,
even doing that, he was

a tough guy to please so.

Yeah.

That gave me some access
by helpin him out.

He was my potato story.

Yeah, I knew all.

Bring him a sac of
potatoes and a cup of

tea and he says no.

Right.

And, and even to this
day, his son runs

that same farm and
it's not easy to get

permission there,t
here's a handful of guys.

So you were saying,
where does a guy go to

kind of get started.

Dunkin's farm in past
years has been part of

what they call associated
wildlife preserves.

Right.

And it's a, it's an
organization or a

gun club that goes
and secures farmland.

You pay a, a handsome
amount to become a member

of this organization
and, but there's,

there's private lands
for you to hunt on.

That's a good way to
get started though.

It costs a little bit of
money, but you know what.

If you start that, if
you, if you pay what

I think it's what,
800 bucks or whatever,

1000 bucks, I'm not a
part of the associated.

I'm not, I don't do
the wildlife, I'm part

of Westham Island,
but associated as in

there's other different
hunting clubs, you

just got to dig a
little bit to find out.

But 800 bucks, I mea
for water fallowing,

yeah it seems a lot to
swallow at the start

and stuff like that.

But you can go shoot
pheasants, snow geese,

ducks, all with land
owner permission

and stuff like that.

And you have endless
amounts from.

From Ladner.

Ladner all the
way out to.

Chilliwack.

Yeah, out to the
Valley right.

So, and that's, I don't
know how many acres they

got and they have their
own club and there's

lots of other clubs that
have all different acres

that you can join too.

It's, I mean, that's
one good way to get

service and it's just
like any other hobby.

Water, water fallowing
is, is a hobby and

everything costs
money these days.

I mean, costs money
to put fuel in your

truck, costs money
to go buy new pair of

skates, to ice hockey,
everything, everything

costs money these days.

So I mean you're going
to have to buck up to

pay, right to play.

Pay to play.

Yep.

That's right.

But at the same time
too, there's nothing

wrong with knocking on,
on public land doors

and, and I shouldn't say
public, private doors and

doing your due diligence
and not being afraid

of, of getting rejected.

We've knocked doors in
Saskatchewan and Alberta

and stuff like that.

If you show up with a
piece of fish on any

Saskatchewan or Alberta
door, they'll give you

permission and mark
my words, they're the

friendliest people out
that way in the prairies

and stuff like that.

Every door that we
knocked on there if it

wasn't already plan to
be hunted, they would

let us, they'd let us in.

But every time when we
walk knock, knock doors

in Saskatchewan, they
let us in, they gave

us a place to stay.

Some of the nicest
people around.

Here in BC, it's a little
bit more tight knit.

There's not as many
spots to waterfowl.

There's not as much
public ground and it's

not vast and wide open.

We're dealing with
the city kind of

encroaching on us, right.

We're dealing with new
structure and, and new

types of people, and
then people that aren't

used to being engaged
with hunters, I guess

hunters or fishermen.

Right, right.

I guess another tip
would be just really

knowing the synopsis
and an easy thing that

you can do at home.

I've seen people who
get into it and they

have no idea what areas
are open, what aren't.

With the Lower Mainland,
of course, you've got

the Fraser Valley.

Map.

The map, that, that's
a good resource.

Comment on a map.

Yeah.

And being that you sit on
the same board as I do,

or the community as I do.

The map is a guideline.

Just because
it's red does not

mean it's closed.

Right.

Right.

So take an
example, Surrey

and Langley as red.

Red is not
necessarily closed.

As far as the waterfowl
act goes, and the

right to farm act is.

You have the right to
protect your crops.

So just because it's red
doesn't mean it's close.

You can go there and
you could obtain written

permission from some of
those farmers and have

access to that land also.

Talk to some of
the conservation

officers, they know.

The map is a by, it's,
it's, it's a bylaw map.

So the regional biologist
goes to the, to the

city council and says,
any changes this year,

what's closed, what's
open, what are the

rules and regulations
as far as the bylaws

stance goes, and then
they produce the map.

You've been there when,
when Jack brings the

prototype of the map
or the the draft and

we go over the changes.

It's a good guideline for
new hunters because they

don't know where to go.

Well, it's their only
guideline basically.

Apart from asking
somebody where's legal,

what's not legal?

I mean.
Correct.

They open the map.

They open the map and
say, Oh look, I can

hunt here in Boundary
Bay and I can do this.

And like, okay,
there's some open

areas for me to go.

People come on, they'll
phone, they'll phone or

you'll get them on social
media where, where can

a guy go get started?

If you don't, if you
don't feel comfortable

knocking on doors, you're
going to go to Westham

Island or Brunswick
Point, or you're going

to buy a boat and
go into the Marsh.

It's a tough gig to
go and learn on your

own without some
sort of a mentor.

Yeah, it really is.

Right?

There's lots, there's
lots to learn on how to

do it, but you know, lots
of fellows, they'll go

and they'll go out to
Boundary Bay and they'll

walk over the dike and
go out into foreshore.

You know, they
give it their best.

Yeah.
But they'll learn.

They'll learn from that
single experience, right?

Yeah.

And that's called
the knocks of the

knocks of life.

You know, Hey, I went out
there, I got a little bit

wind burnt and rained on,
and I only got one duck.

Had lots of fun doing
it, maybe next time

it will be better.

That's duck hunting.

That is duck
hunting right?

And then, you know,
part of the problem is

people don't understand
the capabilities

of their firearm.

Ahh, here we go there.

They're, they're, they're
shooting at things that

are a little bit too
high or a lot too high.

They don't ha, they
don't know the effective

range of their shotgun.

So, you know, and in some
cases they, they need to

go, one, learn how to use
their shotgun properly.

So when you go to a,
an accredited range and

learn and learn, and then
you go out in the field

and say, okay, well that
bird's a little too far,

or, you know, you need
to know what, what the

load you're shooting is
capable of, what you're

capable of and what the
firearms capable of.

So there's lots of folks
out there shooting stuff,

80, 90, 100 yards, and
I mean, if they do hit

them, the bird probably
trickles off somewhere,

lands, you know, half
a mile away and it

doesn't get retrieved.

No dog, nothing.

No dog, it's hawk food
or coyote food or gone

to waste because you're
not shooting ethically.

It's no different than,
you know, shooting

at a deer and making
a poor shot on deer.

Basically what it
boils down is learning

your firearm and being
an ethical hunter.

If you're shooting
at stuff that's too

far away, you're
going to wound more

and retrieve less.

If you bring up, let
those birds come in and

say within 60 yards, 40,
40 yards is kind of the

optimum shot or closer.

But you know, say
your max range

is 50, 60 yards.

If you, if you're
shooting at anything

inside that, your
success rate's going

to go up a lot higher.

So you go out with a
box of shells and you

know, hopefully you're
going to come home with

your limited ducks.

f hear some people
come in and you know,

they, they go with
a flat or shells and

they're happy to come
in with five ducks.

Good, good on them.

They're out there
enjoying the outdoors.

Good for Stillwater.

Yeah good for Stillwater.

But, but let's
face it, it's not

an ethical thing.

The other thing it does
is this, you're going

to have people seeing
you out there do that.

Like you mentioned,
the Brunswick Point.

People can walk all
around the outside there.

They see you shooting
at birds that are too

far away getting wounded
and where's that end up?

Next thing you know
you're going to be

reading about in the
newspaper, these poor

ethics are going to
be reported upon and

that one poor hunter.

And ruin him.

Who's demonstrating
poor ethics, all

hunters painted with
the exact same brush.

Yeah.

The other, the
other thing that

those guys don't
realize when they're

shooting at birds.

In or out of range
or anything like that

is when you shoot at
birds out of range at,

my out of range is 50,
60, 70, 80, 90 yards.

You're only
educating them.

They're.
Right.

They're not, they're
not going to come

in the next day, you
know what I mean?

Most birds are, are,
are on a flight path.

They're going to do
that similar flight path

every day until they
feel uncomfortable to

not do that flight path.

So if you get those,
let's say snow geese,

snow geese coming
over at 60 yards.

There's a lot of snow
geese coming over at 60

yards, and you figure
that you can hit them

and you're not hitting
them at 60 yards.

You're only educating
those things to fly

back at the next day at
70 or 80 yards right?

Now, you're just tickling
them, you're just

massaging the breasts.

You're not, you're
not, you're not

even penetrating
anything right.

You're only, you're only
helping your Stillwater's

cause with wasting
and burning your ammo

and stuff like that.

And to be honest, it's
more of a sport when

you can decoy them or
when you can get them

in close enough to where
you can actually do

full capability of, of
harvesting the animal

properly and with one
shot and down it goes.

And it's a quick,
quick dispatch.

That's my favorite way.

Yeah.

That's my favorite way
when they're the birds

completely committed.

It's my favorite
way to hunt birds.

Oh, there ain't
nothing better.

That's right.

When you can trick a bird
into coming into plastic,

plastic things that look
like it, and there ain't

nothing better than that.

There's one other
resource that I figured

I'd throw out there,
and we talked about

the, regulations, talked
about the, the map.

If you guys ever
used iHunter?

I use iHunter
and Hunt Buddy.

Hunt Buddy.

Yeah.

I think Hunt Buddy
was a sort of a, the

trailblazer on the phone.

That's right.

I think there's a guy by
the name Mark Stenroos

in Alberta who took
the iHunter thing and

for people that are new
to it, it's a, it's a

pretty good resource.

It makes things, now of
course, you have to check

the synopsis, make sure
that everything matches

up, but they're pretty
good at keeping on top

of things and knowing
if, what your limits are,

what, what the season
is, the length of it.

But the maps are
the most, one of

the tools that I
found quite useful.

I remember it was, it
was last year actually,

I was on an elk hunt and
we had taken the kids

into town to get some
hot cocoa and ice cream,

and we're heading back
and we're going through

some farm, farm land,
and we see some juvenile

elk in a farmer's
field and we pull over.

The kids are trying
to identify it and

figure it everything
around here was gonna

be private property
and non huntable.

And as the kids are
looking out, I look

over at my wife and I
say, well, you know,

mama's not going to be
too far away, and my

wife had a cow elk tag.

Said too bad we're,
we're in an area where

we can't harvest them.

And she pulls up the
iHunter and she looks,

actually right across
the street over there,

it's completely open.

I look across the street
and there's another

cow elk right there.

Having resources
like that can also

be a helpful thing.

I think, I think a thing
to touch on is like you

mentioned regulations.

Right.

And, and as a CORE
instructor, it's one

of the things I stress
a lot is regulations

and how to read them
properly, right?

So learn how to read
the regulations properly

cause, and Jens'll,
Jen's will say the same.

When you look at a lot
of the hunt forums,

guys are asking simple
questions that are in

the regulations, right?

It's like, Hey, it's
on page 15, just

look it up yourself
sorta thing right?

Right.

They're relying so
much on everybody to

tell them what to do
instead of actually

doing the research.

So in my CORE classes,
I kinda spend a little

extra time on the, on
the regulations part

because I want them
to know how to use it.

They can't come
back to me and say,

today, you didn't
teach me about that.

You didn't teach me
about, you know, the,

the regulations well
enough that I understand.

No, when my students
leave, they know

how to read that
regulation properly.

I find that happens a lot
and, and, and hunters on

the hunt forums get not
upset, but they get tired

of those silly questions
that are so easily to,

you should be able to
figure them out yourself.

Mhmm.

Yeah, I think, I think,
yeah when a, when a,

when a question that's
pretty simple gets

posted onto a, let's
say a forum or a page on

social, and you've had
guys that have been in

the game for 50 years or
whatever you want to say.

I think I can see how
they can get easily

annoyed with, with
simple questions like

that or whatever.

But at the same time,
these days and age, I

should say the kids,
or the people that are

getting involved in
this stuff almost want

it spoonfed to them,
to the point where they

don't even care about
reading the regulations.

We have a, we've got a
new influx, a new coming

of, of new hunters
coming into the thing

where it's, you know,
I pay for my license, I

pay for my tags, I pay
for my stamp, I can go

out there and shoot.

I don't know how much I'm
allowed to shoot, I don't

know where I'm allowed
to shoot, but I'm just

going to go out and shoot
because they've never had

that privilege before.

Right.

It's a privilege to
hunt, it is, but it's

our right to hunt too.

I believe it's, it's
our right to bear arms

and it's, a firearm
is just a tool to me.

Yup.

It sits right next to
a shovel, you know, on

the front porch, and
it doesn't do any more

damage than what it then
a shovel would to digging

in the yard right.

Preaching to the choir.

Yeah.

So I think it's, I
think it's a little bit

of a negligence when
people are so, put out

dumbfounded questions
and stuff like that.

But at the same time,
I think they just

need a little bit more
direction and a little

bit more help sometimes
too, because if they're

coming from an era where
it's uncommon to have

to work mpretty hard to
get to what you want.

Right.
In life, right so.

Well, working in the
gun store, what are,

what are some of the
common things that you

see people come in that
you just kind of have

to shake your head at?

I'm sure there's.

Ohh, there's
millions Trav.

You know, we come in
with barrels put on

backwards and fully
loaded guns and I dunno

it hap, it happens.

But I mean, there's
people from all walks

of life and stuff like
that, and like I said,

they just need a little
help, a little guidance.

Sometimes it's due to
negligence or laziness

and stuff like that.

But I mean, we get, we
get public coming in

for public complaints.

We get hunters coming
in about other hunter

complaints sometimes.

Okay.

But I mean, that's
all part of the game.

You know, when, when
you're in that certain

aspect of it, it's going
to happen, you know?

But it's not going
to happen as often

as you think it does.

It just, it's going to
happen in that time.

We're trying to whittle
it down to as minimal

as possible right.

Public complaints.

Let's talk about that.

What can new hunters
do to mitigate

public complaints?

I think, I think
they, they should,

one, know the rules.

Right.

Just so that they're
not out of place or

out of bounds and
stuff like that.

And sometimes rules
aren't there written,

they're just the
unwritten rules

of the sport, you
know what I mean?

Not to set it just like
you do in fishing, you're

not going to go down
there and go post below a

guy in the run and start
casting your thing in

without going to maybe
ask permission and say,

Hey man, I know it's
not your river, but out

of etiquette, I'm going
to ask you, Hey, can I

fish below or would you
rather me fish above you?

See, a lot of people
wouldn't know that.

No, they wouldn't right.

And same thing with
duck hunting, right?

And you're not going to
go post a guy, I mean,

I had it this year in
similar situations,

hunting snow geese where
we had a, where we had

a guy post up 50 yards
off our, off our set.

Come on.

And you know, and
what do you do?

You, you can either
join forces with the guy

or educate the guy, or
just if he's a plane,

I guess dick then he's
going to have that name

built out for him later
on or whatever right.

But in most
circumstances, it all

figures out its own
way and stuff like that

and people get along.

And I mean, as
hunters, we all have

to unite somehow,
because that's we, we

all love the sport.

We all love to hunt, we
all, but we don't want

it to be thrashed by the,
the few and far between

the people that are going
to try and ruin it for

us with being ignorant
or uneducated things.

So with the public
complaints and stuff like

that, yeah I think it
has to do with some, some

hunters and stuff like
that that are ruining it

for others, but I also
think it's I think it's a

little bit ignorance on,
on a part of the public

that about most of the
complaints that we get.

Oh for sure it is.

It lands on both
sides for sure.

But everybody, an
example, an ethical

hunter or a, a hunter
with a bit of smarts

wouldn't pick a heavy
Southeast wind day

to be shooting right
behind a neighborhood.

Yeah.
Right.

Right, cause it's going
to sound like you're

right in the backyard.

So there's days where
I've gone to a field

and went, this might not
be the right place to

be shooting here today
cause it's going to,

I mean, yes, you're,
you're more than legal.

You're far enough
out in the field.

Nobody's going to get
rained on, but the

noise is going to make,
make the neighbors mad.

And that's the same
thing with like casing

your gun while you're
walking the dike.

You know what I mean?

I mean.

Yeah Jens and I had
this discussion while I

was with a fellow today
actually in the store,

and I was in there
visiting Jens, and this

fellow came in and the
discussion came up about

hunting Boundary Bay
and with, with the Metro

Vancouver running the
strip park at the dike.

Yeah.

That was owned by
Delta, Metro Van came

to Delta and asked if
they could manage the

Dyke as a strip park,
as a continuation

from the Centennial
Beach Parkway right?

So was Centennial
Beach park used to come

around and come over
to Boundary Bay and it

kind of ended there.

They wanted to carry on
the the strip parks so

people could enjoy that
whole use of the park.

Problem being is,
back when we were kids

that was pretty much
strictly used by hunters.

Right.

And the guys would go
out there with their

pickups on a, on a sunny
Saturday afternoon,

and the dykes were
never gated back then.

He'd back up there on the
thing, you'd have your

trap throw out there,
you'd be chucking pigeons

out there shooting,
shooting back clay birds

and stuff like that.

Well, that's come to an
end after that happened.

This fellow that we're
talking to today was

one of the comments was
about walking over the

dike or down the dike
with an uncased gun

and pack three ducks.

Mmm.

The, the general
public who's not hunter

savvy, not going to
want to see that.

No, not at all.

So you gotta be a bit
smart as a hunter, like

let's not be flashing.

Case your gun, throw your
ducks in your blind bag

or whatever and then.

Yeah.

You know, mind
your P's and Q's.

The problem is people
get a little bit

confrontational, like
they'll, they'll come

across a, a person, just
general public that's not

educated about hunting
and you shouldn't be

shooting birds out here.

Well, that's
not the case.

Boundary Bay in that,
in that aspect, with

that park there, it's
a multi-use area.

It's no different than
Brunswick's Point where

people walk their dogs
and the kids go out on

their bikes and they
ride along the dyke,

it's a multi-use area.

Both, like hunters
need to get along

with the public.

Public needs to get
along with the hunters.

So if you have a
hunter or a group of

hunters that's a bit
confrontational with

you know, somebody
from the public that's

not educated about
hunting or doesn't

agree with hunting, that
just makes it worse.

I think we are going
to be all sorts of

complaints, right?

I think we all,
we've all been there.

You know where
there's going to

be confrontation.

There's going to be
people that don't

share the same views
that you have or

anything like that.

I'm all, what you said,
Dennis, I'm all for that,

I'm not, I'm not too
scared about, I would

case my gun on the dyke,
but I'm not scared about

showing my, my harvest.

No.

Or my foul or
anything like that.

I think most people that
walk those dykes, let's

say 64, 72nd Brunswick
Point, Pitt Marsh,

whatever you want to call
it, any public ground,

I think most people
that are there, are

accepted of it and they
know what's going on.

You got to remember
that down Brunswick

Point that used to
be all private dyke,

public use would never
be able to walk down

there until they opened
it up in the I think it

was the early nineties
or something like that.

But you have to remember
that the hunters were

there before there was
dog walkers, before

there was, you know,
morning walkers that had

their cool crisp stride,
you know that come

down there with their
Starbucks, and now here

I am stereotyping them.

You know, we live in
such a, an awesome

place, especially Ladner.

We don't want to put
it too much on the map

because then more people
come because it's already

losing it's small thing,
we're getting encroached

with that big, ugly
piece of pavement out

there and Tsawwassen.

I mean, I shot thousands
of ducks, or I shouldn't

say thousands, but
hundreds of ducks,

right where that
big ugly mall sits.

And now it's,
it's not soil.

Yeah.
It's concrete now right?

You can't get that
back, you can't

grow, can't grow
crop out of concrete.

And here we are having
some of the best soil

in all of Canada, and
we're paving it over.

Yeah.

Like it's nobody's
business and I.

Well, it brings up a,
you know, there's a,

there's an interesting
balance because we talk

about casing the gun
because some people

might be offended by
seeing the firearm, by

putting the, your kill
and hiding it away.

I know I was speaking
with another fellow,

he says, you know what?

I'd love to drive down
the road with my deer

opened up on the top,
letting the air cool

it out, but I just
can't do that because

of how that'll look.

And although it's
perfectly legal for

somebody to be walking
out with their uncased

firearm and perfectly
fine for them to be

displaying or having
their harvest out in

the open, there are
going to be those

within the society that
are offended by it.

And the difficult fight
comes in when, just like

you were saying before,
it's, it's a tool.

I was raised around
firearms, I got my

first firearm when I
was, well I started

shooting at four, got
for my first firearm

at five years old.

Still have it, old
custom made 22 Stevens

cut down to fit a five
year old frame right.

It took down into two
pieces, could throw

it in my backpack,
it was perfect.

I'm used to that.

And for a long time
I had this attitude

of, it's legal, it's
lawful, I can do it.

Screw everyone
else right?

I mean, I'm not doing
anything wrong, but

the reality of it is,
we are the minority.

Yeah.

We really are.

And then that's what's
changed from like the

70's, the 80's and then
early 90's and now,

you know, getting into,
we're well into the

2000's now and I mean, I
hate to say it but, the

snowflakes are winning,
you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like they're, I
shouldn't say they're

winning cause it's
not a fight for that.

But I don't think anyone
should be not proud to

be a hunter or, or out
even a shooter or a, or

a fishermen or anything
like that because a

certain group of people
that are, are more

minded like that disagree
on that part right?

But it's a touchy
subject, right?

Because at any point
in time, you could

say the wrong thing
and you're going to

be the bad guy, right?

You say one wrong
thing and shame on you.

And when it comes down
to do I case the gun?

Do I not?

Do I hide the
harvest or not?

And then it becomes the
argument of, well, if

we keep casing it and
hiding it and people

don't see it, then how
do you normalize it?

Because not having,
not seeing the firearm

becomes the norm and you
further hurt your cause.

Well like just, back in
the day when guys would

roll around in their,
in, in their Chevy or

their Ford or whatever
with three guns sitting

Shotgun hanging
in the back.

In the back window right?

Yeah.

You wouldn't
think anything.

I went to, I, I, when I
went into high school, I

used to drive a Cutlass
Supreme with an empty

bullet shells all around
the thing, like dingle

balls, but they were
shotgun shells, perfectly

legal, but I got pulled
over quite a bit.

But at the same time
it was like, that

was, I was okay with
displaying that I was

okay with, you know,
being okay with that.

And at that time it
was right at that

transitioning point
where, you know, guns

are scary, guns are
bad, guns a thing.

I think a lot of it
is just ignorance

and uneducated people
about certain things.

It's, it's, it's a tool
and so it's a way to

harvest animals right?

Well, speaking of, yeah.

Well, speaking of the
general public and

people seeing hunters
out there, Dennis, you

had an experience where
somebody got their

phone out, filmed you,
I think they put it on

YouTube didn't they?

Went up to the
media, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, we had a, we had
a opportunity, a very

privileged opportunity
to hunt a piece of

property who not many
people get to hunt, and

it's back in the back
in when we were allowed

to hunt the property.

Now it's being developed,
so it's kind of off the

table, but back in that,
in that time, there was

a handful of us that have
permission to hunt there,

and it came to the point
where the public pressure

from around that farm,
they kept complaining

to the land owner and
the land owner finally

said, okay, there's
no more hunting here.

Got to the point where
there was so many

snow geese in this
property that even the

neighbours were like
man, we can't even

sleep at night, they're
there all the time.

So the landowner finally
said, okay, come on in

and, and you know, let's
harvest some of these

geese and make a move on.

This, a resident, you
know, everybody's got a

phone now on there with
a camera on your video.

So came out and
videoed us, called

the local Delta police
and made a, made a

big scene out of it.

Ended up going to
media, when it was in

the papers it was you
know, on the news.

We weren't doing
anything wrong, we

followed all the rules.

The guy basically tried
to make a mockery of

myself and my hunting
partner at the time.

We stayed professional,
answered the questions,

the media came, the
media came to my hunting

partners residence.

We did an interview.

People just need to
understand that we

harvest our animals,
we just don't go shoot

him just because.

We don't shoot over
our limit, we're

conservationists.

You know, us as duck
hunters when the ducks

are freezing, we got
a big long freeze up.

Example would be way
back when Boundary

Bay was froze over.

The ducks were freezing,
they were thin.

The Delta Rod and Gun
Club went and purchased

a whole bunch of green
and went and spread it

out for the birds to eat.

You wouldn't see
general public do that.

We get, you know, I say
as hunters, we give so

much more back to the
wildlife then any of

the general public does.

Oh, the old saying eh
Jen's like the, the

migratory birds stamp.

Oh yeah.

Us as hunters buy that
migratory birds stamp,

every year the money goes
back into the waterfowl.

It doesn't mean that
general public can't

buy that same stamp
and contribute.

Well, that's what I mean,
the guy taken, I mean,

I take photography of,
of wild birds and love

them just as much as
when they're alive, as

when they're on my table.

Right.

But they don't see
the, the hours put

in at, let's say the
sanctuary or, or behind

a planting a cover
crop for a farmer or

anything like that too.

Like I said, to the
dyke walker that might

complain that when you
have harvested birds

there, it's like, Hey
man, I pay $17 and

85 cents every year
for my bird stamp.

And that contributes
to the wildlife habitat

restoration, to all that
stuff, what do you do?

You can buy that too.

Right.

Why, why haven't you
bought your bird stamp?

Do you have
your bird stamp?

Anyone can buy it.

Not only that, it's a
cool thing to collect.

Well, that's too, right.

I don't think a lot
of the general public

actually knows that.

Right.
Yeah.

I mean, if you're.

That's a good tip.

If you're a birder and if
you enjoy photography or

going out there with your
binoculars and looking

at the chickadees,
looking at the sparrows,

looking at the starlings.

And the waterfowl.

And the waterfowl,
anything.

That all helps
that right.

But just on a, on a
case in point touching

Dennis, is like, the
other thing that people

don't realize is how
much damage those birds

do to farmer's crops.

I've had a farmer
come up to me that has

significant amount of
property on Westham

Island and he's come
up to me and he goes,

Jen's, you know what?

I didn't get a wink
asleep last night.

And I said, why?

And he said, do you know
what it sounds like to

have $10,000 get eaten
out over two nights.

Yeah.

And it's like you
sit there and you're

like, and he's like,
can you come and

pound them out for me?

And it's like, yeah,
I can only do my best,

but at the same time
it's like, that guy is

losing money, right?

Are it's, it's getting
eaten out, house and

home every single field,
you know, and it's.

It doesn't take long
for a big flock of snow

geese to annihilate
a whole field.

Well and then they
stamp down on the

ground, the water
will sit on the top.

That's right.

Yup.

And then, I mean, and
then you go as far as,

how much damage they do
here, and then when they

migrate back up North
into the Tundra, how much

damage they do up there.

They're almost eating
themselves out of

house and home.

They're almost killing
themselves off because

there's so many of
them on this, on

this certain fly away
and on, on the mid.

Central flyway.

Central flyway and the
Mississippi flyway,

all that stuff.

That, they're eating the
Tundra so fast that it

can't even regrow back
so that the birds can eat

the next year after that.

There's just so many
of them that they're

eating so much at the
little, the juveniles

can't survive that.

Yeah.

And right now those
numbers are just

out of control.

They're out of control.

Yeah.

Eventually it'll self
level one would think.

Well.
Food would run out.

Something is going
to happen, but.

Trav they had the guys
that used to say, you

know, they wouldn't see
a snow goose in the 80's

and they might see a, you
know, they might have,

you know, 5,000 on the
fly away in the 90's,

here I'm talking Pacific
flyway her on our coast.

And then you generally,
and then you just saw the

explosion happen where
you had, you know, where

the normal was 50,000 now
it's at 60,000 now it's

at, you know, 130,000
on good hatch years

and stuff like that.

And now we're used
to hear, or see snow

geese in East Delta,
Chilliwack, they're

up the Valley now.

Yeah.

But they never
used to be.

I mean, it used to
be, we hunted them

on the foreshore, we
hunted them on Westham

Island, maybe at
Brunswick, that was it.

Now they're, they've
come inland and they're

like right in the
central Ladner, East

Delta and further out
and that, and, and in

years gone by, that
wasn't common to see.

Yeah.

But it wasn't common
to have a casino or a

big mega mall or any
of that too lot area.

And it turns out.

It turns those birds
pretty nocturnal

pretty quick.

I mean you, you don't
get to pound them in

the daylight hours
and they come in at

night and you can't do
anything about that.

They get so smart, so
fast and you have so

much light pollution
around here that they

can come in and they
can, they can feed at

night and then they'll
leave at first light.

You don't get a
crack at them.

And thats a good
example Jens, I mean

right by my shop is
right where highway 99

and highway 17 meet.

Yeah.

And they have those
big light halos at the,

at the interchanges
and behind the shop

at night it's, fields
lit and the snow geese

would come in there
at night, every night.

And they, it was just
like, it was daylight

there for them, it
didn't phase them.

You wait till the slot
machines go up down

the road, even worse.

Even worse.

Thanks Mr.

Toygo.

Yeah.

Shout out.

Shout out bud.

Make your money.

And another thing that
hunters can do to, to

help themselves too
is, we talked about it

earlier, was pick up
after themselves right.

You know, earlier we
mentioned like, if you

saw something wrong with
the property, a tree

down on a fence or you
know, beaver damn in

the ditch or whatever.

But I mean, that's
part of it, you go

out there and you have
the privilege to, to

hunt on whether it'd
be public land or

private land, try not
to leave the big mess.

I mean, I get it, some
of the casings, they go

off on the side and you
don't find them in the

long grass, but if you
want to be welcomed back

there or you want to keep
hunting open in the area,

you got to kind of pick
up after yourself too so.

Yes.

You know, pick up
your, pickup, your

casings, pick up
your lunch rappers.

It's, you know, make
it nice as it as it

can be, or nicer than
when you got there.

And that's the problem.

Like I've gone to doors
and banged on a door

and asked for permission
and, and it's a farmer

I don't know, it's in
an area I don't know.

And that, and
the answer is no.

Hmm.

Because the previous
hunter, there was a

slob hunter, right.

We'll use this,
use that term.

It didn't pick up
after themselves left

there, you know, pizza
box behind or whatever

they had for lunch
and beer can layin in

the blind or whatever.

And so the farmer's
like, nah, I'm not,

not interested in
going through that

scenario again.

So ya know, the
hunters need to help

themselves by, you
know, looking after

the piece of property
that are hunting on.

And like I said, it
doesn't necessarily have

to be private land, even
on the public lands.

Yeah.

Mhmm.

And there's lots of
times they'll go to

a spot and all that's
pretty commonly used

by duck hunters, and
you'll go there and

there's casings from
the previous guy there

and you're like, ah,
come on man, and you're

going to fill a half of
a five gallon pail, and.

I pick him up.

Yeah.

You don't have to
be the superhero

and stuff like that.

There's Marsh cleanups
and stuff, but at the

same time, it doesn't
have to be your mess to

pick it up either, right.

Because.
Cause it'll affect you.

It's all, it's all,
it's all the duck

Juju too, right?

Like it's, I mean, if
you pick up 12 casings,

you're probably going to
shoot your limited ducks.

Cause that's, I mean,
that's how I put it.

If you pick up three Tim
Horton's cups and a pizza

box and stuff like that,
you probably gonna get

some, some good flocks
comin your way, right?

Yeah.

Yup.

Not going to happen all
the time, but I mean.

Better to be on the
good side than the

bad side anyways.

And on the public side,
I, I'd like to circle

back to your story
there, Dennis, with

the person taking the
video, because I remember

seeing that video and
there's a bit of an

uproar and I remember
watching, it's like, it

was hard to see in the
video, but I'm like, I

think I know that guy.

I'm looking at it.

I got a pretty
distinct profile.

And I watch it, and
although there was

negativity surrounding
it at first.

I was really
impressed with what

you did afterwards.

You did the interview
with the media, you

educated them as to
what people are allowed

to do, what you were
doing out there.

And I think, whether
you're the type of person

to case your firearm
or to tuck away your

harvest or to have it
out displayed, engaging

the public when you're
out there, educating

them what you're doing
and why you're doing

that, just even if it's
just a nod, Hey, how are

you doing?The friendly.

Always try to
be friendly.

And that's what most of
it is on the dyke there

too, unless I mean that
people that are going

to give you a scowling
look most of the time,

even when you're walking
on the streets without a

gun or without stuff like
that someone's going to.

Give you in your cammo.

Someone's going
to give you, you

know, a bitch face.

I'm not going to really
give you the time

of day either right?

Yeah.

But at the same time,
it's, it's important to,

you know, let, let the
people know that you're

there and you're doing
everything legal and

everything's cool and
you're not going there

to hurt nobody I mean.

Even that smile, that
little bit of outreach

and all of a sudden,
maybe you're not just

a scary guy with a gun.

Yeah.
Okay.

Got it.

Yeah.

I can, I completely, I,
I can see where it comes

from both sides where
you know, where you've

got a guy walking with
a gun and you might not

be comfortable around
guns, just like most of

the general public's not
because they're unaware

of what it can do.

But yeah, just a simple
smile or a good morning

or have a good day,
have a good rest of the

walk and be on your way.

And that's kinda, I think
the most of the general

public along these
dykes and stuff like

that, they kind of know.

Yeah.

They, they're, it's
not their first rodeo

and most of the time,
if it's a guy coming

down from Vancouver
with his Mazzarati and

Starbucks wants to walk
his Chihuahua on the

dyke and he might have a
problem with it, but at

the same time, it might
just take two minutes

of education and he
might be on your side.

You never know right.

So.
Yeah.

Yup.

Well, we've talked about
etiquette, some tips,

some really good tips
actually, if people

are really listening
to this, there's some

great takeaways and
educating the public.

Before we wrap things up,
is there anything that

we should get out there?

Anything that we haven't
talked about that,

should probably be said?

I don't know.

I think it, I think
just based on.

I mean, we've only
kind of touched on the

Delta, Ladner area.

I mean, there's lots
of other places to hunt

waterfowl in ya know,
Langley, White Rock,

Surrey, Pitt Meadows,
Cloverdale, Chillwack,

all those things, right?

You can go anywhere.

I would just encourage
people if, if they

want to get into
the sport, don't be

afraid to jump in it.

It is an expensive
hobby to do and stuff

like that, it will,
it is an addiction.

Once you get into it,
it, it's an addiction.

So if you have a
significant other,

just make sure that
they're ready, ready

for, ready for that
addiction to start and

ready for, you know.

Ready for that three in
the morning, jumping out

of bed, where are you
going on this stormy.

Exactly.

Ready to squirrel away
a little extra money for

a gun or some extra ammo
or something like that.

But I would just say,
just remember you're

representing all of us
when you're out there.

It's not your,
you're representing

yourself, but you're
also representing

all of us out there.

So, if you treat wildlife
and our resource and our

environment with a good
hand, then I think it all

repay itself in the end.

The other thing I'd, I'd
touch on is if right now

with the world that we're
living in, everything

is getting developed.

Everything is
getting overexposed.

We're dealing with tons
of stuff against our

own environment here
in British Columbia,

people move here to
see what we have and

what we have to offer.

And right now we're,
we're moving in a

certain direction to
where we don't care

about our wildlife,
is what I'm seeing.

I might be a little bit
biased, but with our

government and stuff
like that, BC is one

of the most renowned
places to come to

in the whole world.

We live in the best
place in the whole world.

Yeah, agreed.

And if we don't start
caring about our

wetlands, our oceans,
I, and I'm not given

a Greenpeace speech or
anything like that, all

I'm asking is that you
give maybe 20 minutes

of your time at, at on,
maybe sign a petition or

maybe go to a meeting.

We're losing a lot
of a lot of stuff

each and every day.

Whether it's to do
with coal pollution or

loss of foreshore or
loss of public ground

to hunt on, even big
game or waterfowl.

I suggest that you get
involved in that, and

especially if you're a
newcomer because it's

for the, the newer
comers that, it's for

our kids and their kids
that are happening.

If we lose that, then
well, not, we're not the

same British Columbia.

We're not the same
Delta, we're not the

same Langley, we're not
the same area anymore.

Right.

One of the biggest things
I think that hurts us

as hunters is hunters
bickering with hunters.

Ugh.

Social media.

We're never going
to cure that one.

Social media is the
worst thing in the world.

Yeah.

Because you know,
the hunters are, are

bickering back and
forth between each

other and, we're not
sticking together.

So you know, we're, we're
imploding ourselves.

You know, whereas the,
we'll call them the,

leaf lickers is what I
usually refer to them as.

What was that?

The leaf leaf lickers.

Oh.
I like leaf lickers.

I haven't heard that one.

You know, they, they
don't understand hunting.

We try our best to
educate them you

know, some of us guys.

But, but for the most
part, it's, it's our own

bickering back and forth
between hunter, hunter

versus hunter and this
group versus that group,

whether it be BC Wildlife
Federation and resident

hunters of British
Columbia, whatever,

bickering back and forth.

The, the, the end
result is or do

what we do because
we enjoy wildlife.

We enjoy being out
in the, out in the

wilderness, whether it be
fishing, hunting, hiking,

trapping, whatever it is.

But if we just learned
to, you know, stop,

think, listen a little
bit and and, and pitch

in and the, and the
big thing is like,

the worst thing to,
that I come across as

the keyboard warrior
and, and I put my time

in, I go to meetings.

I've, I sat on the board
of the Federation, I

was a director for BC
Wildlife Federation

for the longest time,
even after I was the

regional president.

We go, we put our
time in and you put

all that work in and
then somebody squishes

everything you did and
it's, it's like, man,

what did I do that for?

Like why did I work
so hard so somebody

could stop me?

And what it boiled
down to is the keyboard

warrior and, and I,
I'll question them quite

often like, Hey, I, I
see you're complaining,

I've never seen you
at a meeting before.

Yeah.

Yeah.
Right.

Why don't you.
Put in your time.

Why don't you come
out to a meeting and

put your time in?

Well, I don't,
I don't do that.

I'd rather just
do it from here.

Well, you don't have
all the facts, so

please get the facts
before you start.

The thing, the thing.

Typing on the keyboard.

That the social
does is it gives, it

gives a perception.

It puts, it, you put
yourself out there, when

you make comments or when
you post something or

whatever, you're going
to put yourself out

there, but you better
be educated when you

put yourself out there.

I have guys, I got
guys direct message

me all the time, Hey
man, like where'd

you shoot your birds?

How do you shoot
that many birds?

How are you so good?

How are you?

Blah, blah, blah.

I said, you know what the
best duck hunters I know

don't have social media.

They don't do social
media, they're an old

guy that goes out in
his boat every day

and shoots his limit
of ducks or he shoots

four ducks and he's
content with that and he

stops after four cause
that's all he can eat.

Or that's all he wants.

And he's, and he's,
he's learned, like he's

followed the pattern.

He's done his homework,
he's scouted, he's,

he's comfortable with
how you, you know, his

shooting capabilities.

He lets the birds
get him to 40 yards,

he, you know, knows
how to set up decoys.

He's a competent caller.

You know, you go onto
the marsh some days and

there's a guy with a duck
call and you're like, you

just want to get in your
boat and drive over and

cram it down his throat
because it's just like.

Scares the birds away.

It doesn't even
sound like a duck.

You know, but everybody's
got to learn somewhere.

So the social
platform, I mean.

It's like, here I've
caught, I caught this

fish, and then the
next guy posts, Hey, I

caught a bigger fish.

Hey, I've got a
bigger fish, hey, I

got a bigger fish, I
caught a bigger fish.

Well, man, good luck,
good, good job, man.

Because the, the 70
year old guy that did it

in the 80s that caught
twice as big as fish

as you, don't care.

And neither do half
of the other ones.

But at the same time,
it's, you're only

representing yourself
in, in that type of way.

So if you want to be
that guy, you go ahead

and be that guy, you're
gonna shoot yourself

in your own foot right?

So.

Yeah.

But at the same time,
you can also move in a

more positive direction
and guiding people

or helping, helping
people know the rules

or, you know, maybe
helping them out with

a little extra info or
something like that.

But the real warriors
are the guys that are

going to bat every,
every, every day for us.

Whether it's contributing
to BC Wildlife or,

or go to, you know,
region 2 meetings or

region 3 meetings or
region 5 meetings.

They're all, it's all
important to here in BC.

It's not just this
local aspect to it.

I mean, it's, it, it
goes as far as Cranbrook,

Prince George, all the
way up there right.

All the way through our
natural resources, and

right now, the way that
I see it going and stuff

like that, it's kind of
getting put in the back

pocket and we really
don't care about it.

And all the leaf lickers
as Dennis would say, when

the, when the hunters
and the fishermen battle

against each other,
they just sit there

with a bowl of popcorn
and love it, right?

They just eat it
all up, right.

They, they, they want
to see us turn against

each other and I get
it, we're in a, we're,

it's, it's a sport
and it's competitive.

People want to be at
the top of the chain.

They want to, they
want to go out there

and people want to be
successful though too.

And don't get me wrong,
there are only, the

only way that you're
going to be successful

is by going out there
and repetition, doing it

lots and lots of times.

But in saying that Jens'
and as you go out there

and I don't know, and
it's happened to me

many times and then same
with you, you and I have

hunted together before.

And you go out
there on a day and

you don't get any.

Oh yeah.

But you still
learn something.

Oh, did.

You know, I think the
definition of success

has to be what you're
talking about there, is

social media sometimes
skews success as, well

you have to have a pickup
truck full of birds.

Yeah.

Or you got to have
the biggest fish,

but success is what?

Did you go there
and have fun?

Yeah.
Did you learn something?

Yeah.
Did you make some bonds?

Well and look at Jens',
says he had a pickup

truck full of full of
birds or, or you know,

your sleds full of green
heads that you shot

that day sort of thing.

We didn't come by that
easily, we've worked

our way to that.

We learned, it's called
the Knoxville life,

the knox of hunting.

You go out and you learn,
Oh, I didn't do it right.

Biggest thing guys
can learn is, go

get permission, go
hunt private land

doesn't really matter.

Biggest thing is
scouting, concealment

and decoy placement.

And then the fourth
would be learn your

firearm, right Jens?

Oh, and you're
calling and all that

stuff too right?

That com, that, calling
comes with time.

But yeah, biggest
thing is like, how

did you do so well?

And I've always said
that I've put my time

in scouting, put by,
you know, fuel in the

tank, miles on the truck.

When you get there,
make your hide as most

natural as you can.

So you use hide around
you to build your blind.

You laugh at these, some
of these guys, you go

by and you'll see a nice
goose spread out in the

field somewhere, and this
blind sticks out like you

took your hammer to your
thumb and stuck it out in

the middle of the field.

It's got, it's yellow
and a green field

sort of thing, right?

So one of the biggest
thing is concealment.

If you, if you stay
hidden and match what

the terrain around
you is, here's your

success rate most likely
it's going to go up.

Yeah, and you'll learn,
you'll learn from that.

That's succ, that's
another thing of

successfulness is like
when you go out there

and you see birds flaring
off you or, or your, your

down or your upwind of
an elk and it smells you,

you know what I mean?

You're going to learn
from that experience

when you've got a big
six point bull walking

in front of you and
you're on the wrong

side of the wind.

Well, Hey, man.

Off in heart beat

Yeah, that
thing takes off.

Well, I bet you if
you're, if you're

into it, you're
gonna learn from that

experience right.

Same with whatever,
moose calling, or when

you show up in the rut.

It's not just to do with
that, it's getting to

know what you really
want to get into, right?

So the more you know
about it and the more you

experience it, the better
you're going to be.

And it doesn't mean
that you need to put

eight green heads
on the tailgate.

Doesn't mean that you
need to have a six

point bull hanging in
your, in your man cave.

Doesn't mean that
you need to catch the

biggest steelhead.

And, but it does mean
that you can go out there

and you can have a good
time doing it and enjoy.

The outdoors.
What it.

The process.

You know, w what,
what it has to offer.

Yeah.

You learn every
time out there.

Every time you can learn
something new out there.

I mean, and there ain't,
there ain't a time that

I haven't went out and,
I go out a lot, where

you don't learn something
and now you get it.

You get guys that at
certain stages in there,

I guess you could say
their hunting career

or their fishing career
where they're successful.

But they want to share
their success and

show other people.

They get more, they
get more gratitude with

bringing other people
out there and watching

them light up on, on, you
know, hooking a steelhead

or, or shooting a couple
of wigeon or, you know,

watching birds work
or bugling in an elk,

you know what I mean?

Like that, all that
stuff, just talking

about that stuffs makes
the hair on my back oo,

my neck stand up right.

So, and then when you
see a, a new comer, or

even even a guy that's
just been in it for

five to six years and
you've already seen the

show, you've already
seen that Cirque de

Solei parade plenty of
times, but they haven't.

Right.

And then, you know,
they're hooting and

hollering after it
all is successes.

I mean, that's,
that's, that's when

you know that you're
doing something right.

Hell, I still hoot
and holler when

I get one down.

Every time,
buddy, every time.

I told you it's
an addiction, you

go out there all
the time, right?

Oh yeah, for sure.

You've got to have an, I
think if you want to get

into hunting, you gotta
have an understanding

wife, number two,
you gotta have an

understanding wife,
number three, you gotta

have an understanding
wife, number four,

you've got to be spending
money on your wife.

And number five.

Put a fat ring
on her finger.

Number five, you
just have to have

an understanding of
people around you

that accept you for
who you are, right?

So it ain't easy and no
one ever says, and if you

can find someone that'll
share all that passion

with you and stuff,
kudos to that because.

What I have found made
things a little bit

easier was that a hundred
mile diet thing eh.

Yeah.

Right.

That did.

People are a little
more interested in

trying organic meat.

Yeah.

So they'd be like,
Hey, Dennis, could I

have a duck or could
I have a snow goose

or a pheasant or what?

No problem, I'll
give you one.

Yeah.

Or could I have like a,
even a package of elk

hamburger or something?

It's the first thing
that goes on an open

table anytime anyways.

I go to an event, I go
to an event and it'd

be a just a social,
like a gathering,

whatever, bring an appie,
I'll always bring a

selection of, say some
smoke fish and so, a

couple of different,
so some ducks and goose

sausage, maybe some
elk sausage, whatever.

And it's usually
the first thing gone

at least parties.

And they're like,
what's this?

What's this?

What's this?

So I put these little
flags in there, elk

sausage, you know,
goose sausage, whatever.

People try it and
they're like, wow,

this is pretty good.

Man.

One of the things we
do is the waterfowl

heritage days, right.

Right.

So waterfowl heritage
days, quite often we

see single moms now.

They have a son or a
daughter that's kind of

interested in hunting,
but mom doesn't know

anything about hunting.

So they find out what
waterfowl heritage days.

When we bring a
out, I find it, you

know, pretty fun.

We've had some kids that
they barely set foot out

of the house, they don't
do sports, they, you

know, their, their body
said, Hey, there's this

waterfowl heritage days
thing, where get to go

hunting and shoot, try
to shoot ducks and geese.

We always do a lunch
with them, and in the

past we did like duck
fajitas or a duck

chili or goose chili,
that sort of thing.

And I, I kinda snicker
cause you see these,

these single moms come
and they'd have like

their, their skirt
business attire on,

drop the kid off in the
morning, come back later.

And you know, and they're
miffed that you've

asked them to meet him
at Wellington park at

five in the morning and
these poor single moms

got to drag her butt
out of bed and get the

kid down there right.

Come back at lunchtime
when we've got a big

lunch spread put out,
and they kind of turn

their nose up on it, and
I have said to a few of

them, look, just try it.

They try a duck fajita
or goose fajita and

whatever, and if
you throw it in the

garbage, you won't
hurt my feelings, but

at least you tried it.

Right.

But nine times out of
10 they would try it,

or maybe even nine and
a half times out of

10 they would try it
and they're like, Hey,

this was pretty good.

Yeah.

So you know, on the goal
then it was to try to get

all the kids to harvest
a duck, and even the

ones that didn't, quite
often, there was some

kids that harvested two
or three ducks and they'd

all go home with a duck.

We'd send them
home with a recipe.

They go home.

They'd go home with
a lot more than that.

And they'd try it.

They'd go home with
a lot more than that

though hey Dennis.

That day changes lot of
those kids' lives and

you'd be a surprised
on, that might change

their path in life.

You know, with a single
mom dealing with a

teenage boy, I mean that,
maybe without a male

influence in their life,
when they get to maybe

that one or two days a
year that they get to go

out and they get to be
with the boys are, or the

girls too, because they
can hunt too as well.

But for that, special
time in that moment,in

that day they go, they
tell all their friends at

school, they tell their
grandpa, they tell their

mom, they tell everybody
how great that was.

I don't think we've
ever had a sour

experience on a
waterfowl heritage days.

Not yet.

And, and some, and
some years we've been

out there and we've
only shot what, three

ducks, but some days
we're out there.

I mean, some waterfowl
heritage days we're out

there we shoot 20, 20,
30 snow geese right?

Yeah.

Just the luck
of the draw.

But it's hunting, but
it's always those, no

matter if you shoot,
I shoot a bird or you

don't shoot a bird,
that day from right

there and they will
forever remember that.

I promise you that
because they won't.

I know it for
a fact Jens.

I get guys coming into
the store that you

brought out, that are my
age basically, or just

a little younger than
me, and they still talk

about that day, right?

Yup.

And that's the
day that basically

groomed them into, you
know, maybe starting

waterfowl, you know?

So if you ever get that
opportunity where you got

to a kid that's going to
tap you on the shoulder,

that you know, maybe
maybe you put aside a

weekend day for him or,
or, you know, take him

out for a night flight or
take her out for a night

flight or whatever right?

We encourage anybody
in anybody, and it's

never too late to
get into the sport.

I mean, uh, we had
my oldest hunter in

the shop this year
was 104 years old.

He, he shot his own
deer and dragged

it out right so.

104.

104.

Wow.

That's what I filled out
the license, I was like

oohh man, you're old.

He's like.

Yup.

Yeah.

He had his, he
had his little.

Yeah.

It's still, you know.

Philipino caretaker pay,
pay the pay, the license

fee and stuff like that.

But, he said he was
going hunting right.

But I mean, you deal
with kids from five

years old, all the way
up to 90 years old.

You're never too
late to start in

the sport, whether
you're male or female.

It's, it should be
welcomed with open arms

and I mean, if you're
going to snub your

nose at people that
are eager to learn and

want to get in your
sport, then you might

be in it for the wrong
reason right now right.

What I have noticed as
a, as a CORE instructor

over the years is how
many, how many women and

children I've taught.

like it used to be
pretty much predominantly

a male sport.

Oh the numbers are going.

Now that there's so many
ladies and, and kids

that I've taught and
probably more kids than,

Oh, pretty much almost
all the kids that have

shot here in Ladner.

At one time, I'd probably
cross paths with them,

whether it be as a
CORE instructor or as

when we run the Delta
Ladner Rod and Gun

Club Junior Program.

And what do you
attribute that to?

My mentors.

Yeah.

You know, my mentors
taught me and how, I

mean, how it came about
with me getting into some

of these, these, these
kids involved, my mentors

taught me well, there was
nobody to take over the

youth program at our gun
club, so we took it over.

As time went on, like my
sister got involved, she

would tell her friends,
so then now there's a few

girls getting involved.

Now, again, like we
talked about the a

hundred the a hundred
mile diet, a lawyer

friend of mine, she and
her daughters were vegan.

And they came to me
one day and they said,

Dennis we, we'd like
to take the CORE.

And I'm like, kind
of threw me off guard

that they wanted to
take the CORE cause

they're vegans.

And I said, why?

And she said, well,
I'm dating a fella and

he's a hunter and we
tried some deer and we

thought it was good.

And it's like organic,
it's healthy, like

there's no growth hormone
in it, so we want to

learn how to hunt.

So I taught her and
her two daughters

and, and a girlfriend
or hers, the CORE.

And these, these four
girls, well, three of

them for sure, that
I'm still in contact

with, they love to
duck hunt, they love

to deer hunt right.

And they love to
eat it now too.

They love

eating it.

You know what,
I attribute that

to a few things.

Like you're saying, the
a hundred mile diet,

yeah, I mean it's, it's
popular, people want

to be eating organic,
they want to eat local.

And we find a lot more
people coming through,

a lot of hipster types
that are coming in that

just want to be able to
provide for themselves.

There seems to be
a desire for people

to go out and be
self sufficient.

I don't know what's
driving that exactly.

If there's a uncertainty
in their own life or

if they're watching
the news too much and

seeing all the negativity
and thinking, well,

I better be prepared,
but we do see those

types coming in.

And as much as hunters,
as we look at the doom

and gloom of kind of
where things are going

with the encroachment
and population growth

and the lack of, the
limited access that

just as time ticks on.

I also see the
other side of that.

The face of hunting
itself seems to be

changing the the reasons
that people are looking

to get into it seem to
be changing and I think

what you guys mentioned
earlier, for these people

who might be intimidated
to go out and go to the

gun club, or to strike
up conversation from with

some of the old boys.

Joining a club, putting
in that time to meet

the the old guard and
learn from them is a,

is an integral part.

It's, it's a way that
this sport is going to

continue and in the same
respect, the old guard

is going to have to take
a look and realize that

some of these hunters
aren't really doing,

they're not dressing
like how we would dress.

They're not, they're
not exactly the type

of person that we are,
but they are enjoying

the same sport, they're
doing it legally, they're

doing it ethically.

That's right.

I think that's a
huge component to it.

I think there's a little
give and take on both,

both sides of it and
stuff where, you know,

the good old boys might
have to give up a, a

little bit of their
knowledge to the new

up and comers so that
you can all join up

and, and, and conquer
the hunting and here

in British Columbia.

But I think just touching
on the hundred miles

stuff, I think people
are starting to try

to understand where
their food comes from.

And I think, I think a
lot of people, it's a

scary world out there,
it's moving a mile a

minute, I mean, a, you
can't even keep up.

That's why I, I mean,
we don't watch the

news in our place it
or anything like that.

It's just bad, bad stuff
to do because I mean.

It's not worth it.

In the short, in the
short time that you

have here on this earth.

You gotta be focused
on the people that you

care about, the things
that you want to do and

the surrounding your
area, your atmosphere

and stuff like that.

And if you're too
caught up in other

people's worlds and
stuff like that.

You're not going
to enjoy life.

No, you're not going
to get there right.

You're not, you're
not going to get the

most satisfaction.

So touching back
on where your food

comes from, yeah.

Do I have to grab a
duck sometimes and

wring its neck and, and
put it out as misery,

yeah, you bet I have
had to do that a couple

thousand times, but at
the same time, I feel

remorse for that animal.

Every big game animal
I've taken, every,

even every duck
that I've taken.

When, when you kill
something, it, if you

don't feel a bit of
remorse, then you're in

it for the wrong reason
because it is taking

another things life,
but you're using it

to sustain your life.

You're, you're, you're
using all parts of that.

I, I totally agree with
you Jens and I, you know,

I've shot lots of big
game animals, lots of

birds over the years,
and, and people have

asked me that lots of
times like, what's it

like, as a hunter and,
and what's like when you

harvest something, and
I've said to them many

times, every emotion
goes through your,

through your body right.

You're, you're excited
because, Hey, I'm ha,

I have this opportunity
to harvest this elk

or this deer or this
goose or whatever.

And then you also,
you're happy to be out

there with your buddies,
you're excited, all

that's going through your
mind, Hey, we're having

a good time and all,
here's my opportunity.

So you harvest that
animal and you knock

it down and now you're
like, Oh man, I just,

I just shot an animal.

Now, so now there's
a sad feeling, right?

Yeah, I just harvest
this, but Hey, it's for

my family, we're going to
eat it, it's, you know.

You respect it though.

You resp, you respect
the thing and.

Totally.

You respect the game that
you chase and you respect

the game that you're in.

And it, it's, it's not,
it's not for the faint

of heart, I should say,
but at the same time,

like, I know where
my food comes from.

I know, I know that I
worked hard for this

for whether it's meat
or whether it's even

vegetables out of the
garden, like, I mean.

I don't fight vegans, I
don't fight vegetarians,

I respect them.

They have their
own way of living.

Their choice.

That's fine and
stuff like that.

But if, if a certain
group's going to come

at me because they
don't like the way that

I harvest animals or
the way I kill animals

or anything like that.

I mean, my rebuttal
them is, you know, quit

eating all their food.

I mean, they're, I
mean, they're eating

vegetables, you
know what I mean?

I mean, we can go there,
but at the same time,

it's like, you know,
you don't want to.

I've had that argument.

I've had that argument
with, with the lady

once, she's like, I
can't believe you would

go out and kill animals.

And I go, well, it's
no different than

you go into the store
and purchasing yours.

The difference is, I know
where mine came from,

mine didn't go through
the slaughter process.

Well, I'm a vegan,
I said well, what's

the difference?

You're upset that we're,
that we've harvested

a living being.

My example was like,
you don't think that

carrot was sitting there
just living its life.

Just say, Hey, this is
a great life, and all

sudden you grab it by
its hair, yank it out of

the ground, wash it off
and started eating it.

But the other thing is.

If it was screaming,
it'd be a completely

different thing.

Everything's living.

The other thing is too,
it's like you get, I just

don't want to pick on
that certain group, but

like, I mean you get, you
get a crop of vegetables.

Well that, that the
vegetables now, they

all get sprayed.

So bugs die from that,
you know, just because

you have to eat those
vegetables, so they have

to be contained, so they
have to get sprayed.

So mice, rats, bugs, all
living creatures that

you're having a problem
with us harvesting are

do, are getting harvested
off or killed off because

you were wanting to eat
this plant or something

like that right?

So, you know, it's touche
here, touche there.

It's the circle.

Yeah.

It's like, what
can you do right?

But at the same time
I've, you don't want to

argue with that point.

You just want
to say, Hey.

That's a tough
thing to argue.

Yeah.

You, you live your, you
live your style of life

and I'll keep in my
lane and live my style

and I'll, I'll help
people that are in mo,

in the way of my life
and you help people

the way that yours is.

But I'm not going to
go out and bash on

the way that you live
life because that's

the way you live it.

You go right ahead.

You have your, your
own choice, your own

way of doing that.

But this is how I
want to live mine,

and this is the animal
that I want to eat.

You know.

A lot of, a lot of
what I enjoy about

being out there is,
you know, being with my

friends or my family,
whatever, you know.

Enjoying nature
and harvesting and

gathering a lot of
our, a lot of our food.

Like, so while we're
out there, I've done the

fiddlehead collecting.

Yeah.

You can get, we grabbed
Morel mushrooms when

they're in hot, you know,
when they're around.

Yeah.

Shaggy manes, all that
sort of thing right.

So it's all part
of being out there.

All right.

So, and people don't
understand that it's,

it's more than just
out there harvesting

animals or trying
to hunt animals.

It's just being in
nature, enjoying it.

Living.

Away from the city.

Yeah.

Well, getting away
from the city.

Yeah, it's living right.

It's a different,
different way of living.

You gotta respect that.

If you respect mine,
I'll respect yours, let's

just put it that way.

Correct.

Right.

And it's, and
it's unfortunate.

I mean, everybody
has an opinion.

It's, some people just
don't understand how

you live, how I live,
how Travis lives, and

then they, they got to
put their 2 cents in.

And don't get me wrong,
it's, it's tough taken

an animal's life.

Like it's not.

Oh definitely.

It's not an easy thing.

It's not just, we go
out there and, you know,

we shoot an animal, put
the blood on our face

and say yeah, like beat
our chest and say, Hey,

this is what, this is
what we're here to do,

and stuff like that.

It's, it's a, it's a
thing of privilege.

It's, it's, you come in
there and you, you work

hard for what you want
to do and it's not easy.

So that's why I respect.

I have a little bit
more respect for those

people that are, are
capable of doing that.

Knowing where their food
comes from, maybe getting

their hands a little
bit dirty, maybe working

hard for what they're
entitled to right.

Got a more intimate
relationship with

the life and death.

Yeah.

And that creates
a greater value

in most people,
understanding that.

Well, I think you
touched on something that

you said, it's, it's,
it's, it's not easy.

No.

And people who think
that being a hunter's

easy, it's not.

There's easier ways
to get our meat.

The hunters that are
successful, they work

hard to be successful.

The weekend warrior,
who thinks it's just as

easy just to jump in the
boat, throw it a dozen

decoys, and go out and
harvest a bunch of ducks.

They'll figure
that out quick.

They're not going to
be very successful.

Yeah, they'll learn,
they'll learn fast.

Right?

You have to put the time
in, work hard at it.

It's, it's far from easy.

You know, you gotta,
you gotta expect that

you're going to go on
that elk hunt and not

harvest an animal.

Go and learn a little
bit and the next

year you might be
successful or have a,

have a great chance
at an, at an animal.

Get an encounter yeah.

Right.

So I mean, an example,
my dad, him and I

have hunted lots
over the years.

My dad has never had the
opportunity to hunt big

bull elk during the rut.

And this year I had
the pleasure to take

them along with me.

We harvested an elk
a few days before,

but I have my dad,
with an opportunity,

I had a bull.

I called the bull
within 25 yards of

him and he never made
the shot because you

couldn't tell if it was
a legal animal or not.

But I remember the look
on his face when that

bull's standing 25 yards
ahead of him, bugling his

face off in the trees.

And dad, I'm looking
at dad and dad just

kind of looks back
and it was over in

a blink of an eye.

The wind had changed on
us, the elk winded us and

he was gone like a ghost.

And I looked at
my dad and said,

how close was he?

Cause he goes
like 75 feet.

Yeah.

And he goes, I've
never been that close.

He says, I thought I was
going to get run over.

And I'm like, and I said
to dad, I said, you know

how close you were to
harvesting that elk?

And he goes, no.

I said, it's like you're
at the world series

game, you're down by
two runs, you got two

runners on base, and you
crank one and it's going

out of the park and that
outfielder catches it

as it's going over the
wall and there's two out.

Said, you were that close
to harvest in that elk.

And my dad kind of
looked down on me.

He says, you're right,
it was one hell of

a cool experience.

He says, we never got
him, we were this close,

but it was so fun.

That's what it's about.

It is, you know.

If you make the success
of the hunt, the harvest

of the animal, you're
going to have a lot of

disappointed outings and
lots of people will end

up giving up on that.

But if you make the
success, the preparation,

the time in, the I don't
know, I'm a gear junkie.

The enjoyement of
the experience.

I'm a gear junkie, I
like collecting the

kit and then you go
out and you're hunting.

Your outdoor is,
you're observing

what surrounds you.

You're a part of
the nature, you're

part of the process.

And then guess what?

If you do happen to
harvest something, that's

the icing on the cake.

That's a bonus.

Yeah.

A total bonus.

I mean, you don't
go there every time

expecting to come home
with a truckload of, of

birds or deer or elk or
whatever the story is.

Whatever you might be
hunting, but just be

out there and join,
enjoying the, the nature

and the wildlife and
the Lake you're sitting

beside, you know.

It's just part,
it's all part of it.

And when you harvest
something, it's a

bonus to the trip.

Well, I think we've got
a lot of material here.

Any new hunter listening
to this will have some

great tips and tricks.

And I think we've really
hammered home some,

some key points here.

Yrah, yeah and I think
like Jens touched on, he

says, don't be afraid to,
you know, be a hunter,

be become a hunter.

If, if you, I think it's
something you enjoy it.

Come and try it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You either love
it or you hate it.

Right Jens?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're all in or
you're not all in right.

But at the same
time, it's, I'm

proud to be a hunter.

I know all you guys are
proud to be hunters, and

there's lots of hunters
out there and huntresses.

And everyone that's in
the outdoor community,

whether it's fish and
hunt and trap and hiking,

camping, outdoors stuff
or whatever, we all,

we all share the same
environment and it's a,

it's up to, up to us to
have it and keep it going

and all that stuff too.

So just don't be afraid
to stick your neck

out there a little bit
and, and then don't

be afraid to jump in
with the feet first.

Don't be afraid to
ask Cindy to dance.

Yeah, exactly.

I never really liked her.

You liar.

Does Cindy know?

Yeah, I hope not.

I mean, she might be
listening, I don't know.

She will after she
sees it on your

Instagram feed.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

All right.

Wanna wrap it up?

Yeah.
Sounds good.