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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite you to take a
moment, a moment within your day, to
settle, to ground, and most importantly,
find your center within this minute.
Breathing in and breathing out,
acknowledging relationship,
taking a breath in
and a deep resounding breath out,
allow the word relationship to be
distilled within your attention.
Finding the beginning of
relationships, understanding
as you cultivate relationship
and allowing yourself to notice the deep,
deep, mysterious web of interconnection.
Taking this opportunity in silence.
within reflection, to witness the
interweavings of relationship,
the deep connection to relationship.
And once again, as you breathe in
and breathe out, start to
witness the relationships
start to engage you,
and that you engage with them.
This symbiotic dance,
watching their gifts,
witnessing your offerings,
Within relationship,
breathing in and breathing out,
finding a way to watch the intermingling,
the interconnection and the wondrous,
wondrous safety within relationships.
Taking one last breath in,
watching the people, the spirits,
all relating
and taking a breath out and how you
dance amongst your relationships.
Opening your eyes when
you feel called and ready.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
Psychedelic Psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today, I am so, so grateful,
so humbled to talk with Ryan.
Ryan, how are you coming in?
Fantastic, Ryan.
How are you?
Good.
Before we dive into psychedelics,
the thing that I just was embarking
on, it was free verse, but our
relationship, it's pretty wondrous.
It's been a minute, what?
Six years?
2017, I think it was.
Yeah.
Yeah, I actually didn't call you Dr.
Ryan.
And I think the, it goes back to,
I think we need a safe word and Dr.
Ryan is so I know that there's
a differentiating between myself
and other people around me.
All things psychedelic,
that's what might be playful.
It will be like Tiger, Tyler Durgan
and, you know, like Fight Club.
Exactly.
Who really are we?
Oh, many of those experiences.
Yeah.
Great to see you.
Yeah, you too.
And it does mean a lot to me because we
can just dive right in and tap in because
of the long history and what you've
uncovered within working with medicine.
And before we go there,
what was the invitation?
How did you find it?
How did you find the medicine?
I I'm really refining my thoughts
actually as we speak because I'm
actually preparing for TEDx and
trying to, like, it really is, Dr.
Ryan, this two questions since I was
like My first memories of like, why the
hell are we here and what's the point
that it has driven most of my life.
And so there like a lot of things
might not make sense when you look at
the outside, but like that's the, the
threaded needle throughout the way.
And so when I was talking to one of
my friends and clients also similar
name, which is so ironic about the
whole thing, is, I had been like
listening to Tim Ferriss's podcast.
I think Michael Michael Pollan was
on it and I'd had experiences in my,
in my past as a youth, but it was
very recreational and not medicine,
you know, words that we use nowadays.
And so I had already had like.
You know, a lot of slight
understanding of it.
And I was just trying to search for
deeper meaning of like, what the hell
is all this chaos in my life for?
Cause I thought at the end of the day,
and I've always thought that there is a
point, but I'm not seeing the pattern.
And so as I kept hearing more and more
of like the analogies and metaphors of
like, you know, you're skiing on, you
know, you're skiing and there's all
those grooves and then you need a big
snowfall in order to like rewire them.
And as more and more stuff became.
Like tangible from
scientific perspectives.
And then I was having a conversation
because I'm in the entrepreneur
space and we're all batshit
crazy, I think, to some degree.
And so these conversations
come up quite frequently.
And so it was a
conversation with a friend.
And he was like, Oh, my gosh,
I've done some work recently.
And I was like, I'm in.
And I think at that point, there was some,
you know, more specific things that I
thought was going to be the main intent.
Which I, now I can articulate it was
just the surface and a derivative
of the main intent of just trying to
figure out how to have order to Mike.
Typical chaos.
I love everything about that.
And then once the medicine took hold,
what would you say is the difference of
your youth versus your intentionality now?
What do you acknowledge
is the most obvious?
What do you mean?
Let me expand on that.
Yeah, thank you.
When you were doing it or you
dabbled within it when it wasn't
called the medicine, when it was
recreationally used, what would you
say is the biggest differentiation
of using it with intentionality?
I just want to get fucked up.
I, I really like dopamine.
And so my most of my life.
So here I'll, I'll refine my thoughts.
Cause I think it'll help see the story
arc here where what I've realized, like
when I don't see bigger mean, meaning Dr.
Ryan.
I tend to resort to short team dopamine
fixes, whether it's booze or weed or
whatever the hell it is, because I don't
understand why what I'm doing has a point.
So then I go for more of the
pleasure and the quick fix.
Then I do the deeper
meaning of the hard work.
And so I stumbled across this in
the spirit of like, Hey, this is an,
you know, an evening with my, all
my friends around the bonfire which
happened to be way more profound than I.
I thought it was going to
be, so I was sitting around,
there was 15 of our friends.
I was 18 years old around a
bonfire and all of a sudden I was
like, who in the fuck is Ryan?
And I had the total, you
know, I can use these words.
I didn't know what it meant back then.
Ego dissolution where I was like, I
literally don't know who I am or what,
like, what is this meat suit that I'm in?
And like, I got out of
that going, Oh my God.
So like, I mean, still, that was one of
the top three experiences of my life.
That one experience, even though it was.
It's under the set and
setting of a bunch of bodies.
I ended up having a very
individual experience.
So which is why when my client
and conversation years ago, it was
like, I have tasted that already.
I just, you know, spent a couple of
decades in between of just dopamine
chasing or whatever kind of chaos
that in my life was, I was always
balancing this chaos to, you know,
some sort of like bigger picture.
So but like over the last, you
know, seven or eight years.
It's just being refining that and at this
point is really understanding like the
big picture of the goals that I have and
holding those in in a good tension with
the present moment because like me and my
friends that are also Familiar with you.
It's like we know that the answer is
always to just be but like I can't just
do that So I have to like understand
the whole world and then put myself
through hell And give myself a lot
of obligations so that way I can
actually just be in the present moment.
So at this point, it's just refining and
getting better at that journey instead
of having to have some sort of quick fix.
I love everything about that.
You said something very intimate to
me is that you recognize who you are.
You know what you needed for dopamine
hits, be it booze or weed, but
you've also like, come to a place
of like, I don't need those anymore.
Like how, And what was that like?
Because I know psychedelics has a
large aspect of, like, I think what
I love about you is your capacity
to hone yourself, and then re hone
yourself, and then re invent yourself.
What was psychedelic in
your refining relationship?
It's definitely not immediate, so
for anybody listening that has or
has not experienced it, like, it's,
it's like, no let me say it this way.
I I am so terrified of my shadow self
and what I could be, like, cause I know
I could be a complete fucking delinquent,
and I could, could, like, if I, I know
what it could be like to have all of the
terrible things take me over, and I'm
scared of that, cause that, like, doesn't
work, and I've proven that throughout my
life, whether it's like, You know, Dr.
Ryan, back in college, it was like,
I went from being like the soccer cap
and very involved in like religion
and just different, different
paths trying to find the meaning.
And then when I wouldn't find
it, I would fall into just
partying or whatever it would be.
And then it was like, well, I can't sleep.
I got bad acne.
My back hurts.
I have ADHD.
I can't go to the bathroom on time and
like all these different stupid like
things and then Every moment where
I'd have like this little experience
of clarity in that it was one Like
the game in front of me became clear.
So like it was like in sales jobs.
It's like I can't show up psychologically
stressed out because everybody's
going to call me an idiot anyways.
So why make it worse on myself?
So after I went through and I got
some like, you know, good health
habits and stuff like that, I'm
like, Oh, all that shit got fixed.
So like, I guess at my point is Dr.
Ryan is like, it's all my fault.
If I don't do this, it's my fault
because I've experienced the pros
and cons of doing certain things.
So like how good I can do, like, I don't
want to be resentful to myself cause
that's like, I can't escape myself.
So I might as well fucking pick
up the life and live it because
otherwise the alternative is not fun.
So like I'd say all that because
as I then move forward, it's
just making that process easier.
Cause it's a motherfucker anyways.
So I might as well make that easier.
And so every time I fall into a slump, it
was like, I had, because I had tasted this
experience when I was 18 and then it was,
by the time I talked to my client, it'd
been like this chasm of like, just trying
to live life and grow up a little bit.
And then I experienced again, like, Hey,
I can see how I could get back to that.
You know, balance.
And then so every kind of, you know,
year or so when I do the medicine, it
just helps that become easier and easier.
And that balance of doing hard things
for a bigger goal and making every sure
that making sure that everything else
is integrated around me back to your
book, kind of the title of integration.
I mean, it's not an end goal.
So I don't know if that
answered your question.
It answers all of it.
And what you're saying is really profound
for me is that it's not just the panaceas.
It's not just laid out for you,
but it actually is engaging with
it, is in the most amazing manner
is taking accountability as
well, because I know working with
medicine, it's very easy to say.
Please fix it.
Please do something for me.
Please.
And it's like we're coming into
a sort of humble surrender.
Oh, I need this removed from me.
And what I really appreciate
about what you're saying,
Ryan, is no, it was my fault.
Now I need to take action on it.
And I'd like to use the medicine to
make that slightly easier, right?
Slightly, to make it slightly easier.
It's not like at the end of the day,
it's still the hard fucking work.
Like I still have to do it.
I still have to live this life.
I still have to deal
with all the bullshit.
But if I know that it's
good, like life is good.
Nihilism, nihilism and like
the resentfulness doesn't work.
And it's not, it's.
I was told that is because I
know from personal experience, so
it's like at the end of the day,
it's still just going to be hard.
So it'd be nice to like, I mean,
similar to my working out, like
I'm going to get injured, but
if I'm working out, I'm healthy.
I have a better ability to handle
that down, you know, that down, that
pitfall or whatever it might be.
Thank you.
When you say the word integration, when
you use this with so much intentionality
and knowing that you have such A broad
scope of what works for you and what
doesn't work because you've touched
a lot of things I know personally
from working with you You, you try
things on and you really see if it is
an activity that benefits and works.
What keeps drawing you back
to psychedelics versus say
another variation of healing or,
you know, the latest biohack?
It's, I'm trying to think
of how to word that.
It's like,
it's just like the same thing
in any entrepreneur or owner.
It's like, you have to take clarity
breaks or you have to take a step,
step back to look at the big picture.
But you can't stay back looking at the
big picture as an academic all the time.
You got to get in the fucking arena
like Teddy Roosevelt talks about.
So like I, that's how I
see it as this cadence.
We're like And James Clear talks about
in his book, Atomic Habits, which I've
accidentally embraced a lot of that Dr.
Ryan over the years.
I never once did it because I
read a book and then I did it.
It was like, started out working out.
I'm like, well, things
are better than not.
So then that became part of my
daily routine and my weekly routine.
Then like, so, and then as I think about
how I've shed certain habits and how I've
added certain habits, psychedelics helps.
process, making it like
continually like leveled up.
Same reason if you were to step
back once a year and look at all
business and say, what should I be?
Am I headed in the
right goddamn direction?
Or am I like running inside the woods,
you know, in the wrong direction?
It's like that navigation point, I guess
is a better way to put it because at
the end of the day, like what I still
do is I still have my workout routines.
I still eat better.
And then like I integrated a medicine
or I'm sorry, not medicine, a meditation
four years ago, which like you starting
with meditation, I remember back in
school, I was like, Hey, we're going
to sit still for like 10 seconds.
And I'm like, silence terrified me.
I couldn't sit with myself.
And now I can for days on end.
But so it's like the meditation,
the working out, the eating
well, all that stuff.
If I'm just constantly
trying to figure out Dr.
Ryan, like do I default to positive,
happy thoughts that are peaceful?
Do I have positive default energy
or is it negative default energy?
Well, you know, I was able to
have two to four cocktails a
day for, you know, 15, 20 years.
And then all of a sudden, like
daily, it was like, I'm more tired.
I'm more anxious.
I'm defaulting to negative
thoughts and that sucks.
I don't like myself.
And I know for a fact that I could fix
this if I just did something different.
So it's kind of this, I don't know if I'm
answering, but it's like this constant
balancing between like the playing it and
then stepping out and kind of seeing, am
I on track and am I balancing the future
and my current actions in a way that.
Have alignment you actually answered it
perfectly because it's once again What I'm
hearing in my translation is you try it
on you you operate within it you refine
it and then To your point with your space
in between your medicine ceremonies.
It's not as if you're going to you know
Do it so often that it becomes It's
unattainable or the information becomes
so overwhelming that you're actually
A lot of times I'll use the term,
the difference between consumption,
digestion and metabolizing is Mm hmm.
Over consume we'll never be able to
digest and we'll never metabolize it.
Well like, I mean, how much like I mean
there's so many different analogies
we could pull on, or like, you know.
Academics who just theorize all
the time aren't in the game.
It's in my space, there's a lot of people
that are love, love to give advice,
but they've never gone into the arena
and gotten the shit kicked out of them.
It's like, well, you have, I mean,
at the end of the day, you know, part
of my other philosophies is like,
we're here in this meat suit for 90
years and the experience is the point.
A lot of that I've learned from
the medicine, but like, if that's
the point is the experience at the
point, extracting ourselves from the
experience and just theorizing all
the time is actually spitting life
in the face, hypothetically, or like
within the spirit of this conversation.
So then it's like, well, you have to go
into it and do it and then see how well
it's going and then step back and then
see if you're on track or off track.
And so I think, I mean, the same thing
with sports, you can sit there and
watch sports, but like, that's why
I'm not, I don't like sports at all.
It's like, I like playing.
I don't care what other people are doing.
It's like, I'm focused on playing myself.
And so it's, yeah.
Well, it's the engagement.
And one of the things I know about our
relationship is you, you're talking to me
now, years in the making, you did remove
things from your life that weren't easy
to your point of cocktails or engaging the
way you want to within family or children.
And I.
Can empathize with you because
we've walked that path, right?
It's not it's not a passive
experience is everything I'm
hearing you talk about is it?
antithesis to being passive Yeah, 100%.
I mean, like for the crazy context,
Ryan, I I just got back last night
from a week in Mexico for a vacation.
So I've been sober from booze
for about two years now.
And like from, and then of course
then I went straight for weed, right?
It's just like zero or a hundred,
like there is no freaking, but
it's like the craziest part.
People always ask me, doc.
Didn't tell anybody for about a
year, like, cause I'm like, it's
not about, it's not about signaling.
I don't give a shit if
people know I drink or not.
It's about me for myself.
And like this vacation
was so freaking relaxing.
Like, usually it was like, Oh, I want
to go drink, you know, for six days.
And cause like, we're getting, you
know, we were, it was the whole
reward or dopamine reward system.
And I'm like the whole
day, the whole time.
I slept in, I felt great in the morning,
I went to work out, and then I read
on the beach, and then on Sunday I'm
like, I'm like, can't wait for work.
And so like, but that, like, getting
rid of that dopamine addiction,
which really is like an actual
neurological, like you're, you're
cementing those synapses in your head.
With the reward system and so it's like
I never Allowed myself to have more than
I should because I mean for 18 19 years
now I've been waking up at 5 o'clock going
for a run working out, but it got harder.
So I never had 12 a night, but I
was so exhausted with myself like
should I shouldn't I shouldn't I
shouldn't when can I the first and
it's Just like fucking a Ryan me.
I'm so tired of myself.
My, my, like, my friends are
like, why don't you drink?
I'm like, if I had one, I'm opening up
the door door for negotiation with myself.
And I'm, I'm exhausting.
So like, I already know I'm a lot
of energy for a lot of people.
And can you imagine being in my head?
Like, I'm trying to just be
peaceful as much as I possibly can.
Appreciate your vibrancy, I appreciate
your energy, but what I'm also
acknowledging is you're softening the
voice in your head, it sounds like.
You're coming into concert with it
and not wrestling with it as much.
Yeah.
That's, that's a fair statement and
it's just trying to rewire my, like
what my reward system to know that I'd
like to enjoy the present moment more.
I have to be doing like, so here's
some other words that I'm using and
working on with the, the Ted talk
is like, I believe that happiness
is the true is the joy we experience
in pursuit of our fullest potential.
I mean, like, so we have to then
work towards, and that's a Shana
core quote from happiness advantage.
And there's a lot of different
books from conversations with God.
That's helped me a lot.
Jordan Peterson talks a lot
about this stuff, but like the
higher, the bigger, normal aim.
That impacts the most amount of
people over the most amount of time.
That's a fun game to play.
Like, and I can architect, I can build
that game myself, but then that brings
everything else into perspective.
And what I found fascinating and I
sent it to you, I don't know if you got
a chance to listen, but Huberman and
Peterson were talking on their podcast,
which is like intellectual porn for me.
Like.
It's like watching psychotic,
like the highest level of
psychology and the highest level of
neuroscience talk back and forth.
And what they said that was impactful
for me, and then I'll land this plane
is when we have the biggest noble
aim and the biggest goal that over
the biggest amount of time to impact
the biggest amount of people, which
technically Jesus is a metaphor of that,
the biggest sacrifice is necessary.
We actually neurologically get the
highest unit of dopamine per unit
of progress towards that goal.
That's intense.
I know.
So then it's like, well,
technically then, and this is
what I'm battling with right now.
Is like working towards that
becomes super energizing and also
addicting, therefore shedding all
the other crap that's not productive.
So you become addicted to the hard work,
just like any athlete gets addicted
to the hard work towards that goal.
But then being present
becomes more of a challenge.
So it's this constant balance of,
you know, being present and then,
you know, working towards that goal.
Is this constant balance and
then everything else should
be integrated along the way.
And that's just always hard.
And so that's where the medicine
comes in and the, you know, the
habits and all that kind of stuff.
And I always say that back to
your energy question is like, this
energy is coming out every day, no
matter what, it's going to be either
super fucking negative and I'm.
Percent of me, or it could be super
productive, but like, I'm not stopping it.
So like, I have to funnel it some
direction, otherwise I'd go mad.
I love everything about that.
When you say that, and I pause
because where do you find the
gentleness and the quietude?
Where, where do you give yourself grace?
Because you are so efficient.
You are so dynamic and you are so,
like, I validate and respect you deeply.
Where, where are you
giving yourself grace?
Not to say like, you know, grow
dreadlocks and like sell all your
material belongings, but I'm always
jealous of your hair, dude I don't
know man, it's it's hard and I don't
have the answer for that and that's
what i'm currently working on Right.
I mean like it's I mean, I wake up,
I meditate, I journal and I work out.
So like, I'm trying to reward
myself with being present.
So instead of that, that's essentially
what the reward I'm trying to give myself.
But it doesn't always work.
So in the morning, like I've, I've built
my business around the life that I want
to have, which I'm blessed for that.
It's taken a lot of work.
So I've got more time in the
morning for thinking, which
helps me calibrate my thoughts.
But then like, as it relates, the thing
that I'm currently struggling with is.
Because I'm so freaking addicted
to what I do and I love it so much.
It's not work that like at five
o'clock, what happens is, is
like, my brain is on overdrive.
Like it's like, and like, and
then all of a sudden I pick
up my girls, it's dinner time.
Play games with them and it's like, if
you were to take like a car off of the
Indy 500 and just set it down to go
through a stroll for the park, I mean,
it's like, I'm, it's a tough balance.
And I used to suck down a couple
of cocktails to make that happen.
I don't have time to
meditate and all that.
So like, I tried to get an ice
plunge that I'm like, fuck that.
Like, I don't have the 4, 000
one that's, you know, easy.
So like, I don't have a great answer
for that, but like what I'm doing with
my girls now that they're a little
bit older is I'm, we're playing games.
That I enjoy actually.
We're going skiing because
I enjoy that and stuff that
doesn't have a phone next to us.
So, I don't know.
It's not a clear answer.
That's actually a very devoted
answer of growth though.
You acknowledge and I am humbled by it.
You're saying I'm working on it.
It's your next altitude, right?
That you know that you're an IndyCar and
that's why I admire you and respect you.
But you're also saying
I'm not shutting down.
I have the courage not to get intoxicated.
That's, that's, that's fucking devotion.
It's hard.
It's hard.
Because, because again, the easy
Acknowledging it's important though.
Yeah, well, because like in, in what
also I think is helpful and back to
the medicine, in things that I've
learned the hard way is Back to the
accountability for myself and the
responsibility, I mean, it's like, do
I, would it be nice not to have the self
awareness and have no responsibility?
Fuck yeah, but like, I went down, I had
that process at one point in my life,
it doesn't work, I ended up not as
happy, and so like, my point is, I've
seen the alternative in quite a few of
these scenarios, and so like, what's the
alternative, I guess is my point, and
it's like, okay, well, the moment that I
was aware that there was an alternative,
Is the moment that the accountability
kicks in and then it's like, okay,
what's the fucking alternative if I
like, let's put it in a different way
Is that my biggest fear is if I did
something throughout my life and then
something bad happened and I knew
it was my fucking fault because I am
really mean to myself at some point.
So like, if I did a bunch of stuff,
like for example, if I kept drinking
and all of a sudden I got cancer because
of it, or if I did all these things and
then all of a sudden I got a divorce,
or if I did all these, like, I do not
want the consequences that I would end
up giving myself mentally from that.
So I'm that back to, I'm
terrible shadow self.
So like the alternative is just do the
hard work and like the medicine has helped
that awareness to make it like, okay,
like here's the consequences of things.
That are in front of you.
What's the alternative?
Show up and do the hard shit,
otherwise you're gonna be
really upset with yourself.
What do you, you just illuminated
something and circled back to it.
The shadow.
What are you doing to maybe
look at an invitation?
I potentially see Carl
Young's Red Book on your desk.
Yeah, it's an expensive ornament.
I ended up buying the Audubon
book because, oh, buddy.
Well, and I have that book as well,
but it leads into, you know, psychosis
and it leads into mental health.
And why I'm bringing it to the
forefront is at some point in time,
we'll have to integrate the shadow.
And rather than work against it,
what are you thinking might be the
invitation to work with your shadow?
So you're not so hard and, you know,
intensely Let me, let me ask you this,
cause given what we've caught up with
here, I think I have integrated it because
I acknowledged it, I recognized it, I'm
not avoiding it, I'm dealing with it.
And so like Yeah, I don't want to, I
don't want to misinterpret, I don't
want people to misinterpret what I'm
saying with running away from it.
I'm acknowledging that it exists
to, like, I think what's the
definition of insanity is to.
Yeah.
Is that a fair way of putting it?
You think?
And I would think you are
acknowledging your shadow and you
are trying things on and letting
things go that don't work for you.
One of the things that is important when I
hear people talk about the shadow is that
they're not afraid of their whole self.
Right.
I know.
I'm, I'm just as evil to myself.
And you know, we laughed about fight
club, but that, that personality
could come out in me integrating.
Right.
We're laughing with, if I'm not
integrating fragility of one's mental
health can be unwoven in a heartbeat.
And what I appreciate is you're doing it.
You're, you're acknowledging it and you're
holding it is what I'm hearing you say.
Right.
Right.
And that holding it slash integration,
I think are Similar or synonymous
in this conversation, right?
Integration, holding it because.
I think, you know, there's a book anti
fragile that I love by Nassim Taleb,
but he's a probably a probability and
statistician that created the black swan.
And like what I, here's my
point about bringing it up.
And these are like mental models
that I have gathered were like how I
like, it just helps me navigate life.
So he realized that there was no opposite
of fragile when people say, what's
the opposite of fragile people say.
Rig, you know, sturdy, which is rigid,
which means it could be broken easily.
Anti fragile is like your muscles where
the, the definition of anti fragile is
you break it and it becomes stronger.
And it's like, so the, the, I think
what ends up happening is if we do not.
integrate our shadow self,
we become fragile actually.
So cause that son of a bitch is
coming out at some point, the moment
that something happens, whether it's
health or relationship or career or
whatever that fuckers coming out.
So you might as well integrate it now.
So you didn't get, you don't get.
Can all the way down to
the core when it happens.
And so like, I'd like the
antifragile holding it, integration,
acknowledging it, the whole self.
I mean, I think that's all
kind of tied together because
other what's the alternative.
You're right.
Oh, I totally agree.
Like, it's gonna come.
Totally agree with you.
What would you say you're, speaking
of integrating, what are you
integrating and how do you know when
it's time to do another ceremony?
You mentioned, you know, yearly, there's
times in your life that you know your
cauldron is ready to use medicine.
How do you make that informed decision?
It's more intuitive,
probably, than prescriptive.
I don't know, like every time
I've done them, I'm like, I don't
need to do that for a while.
And that means it's probably,
it probably, there's a lot to
digest, to use your words, right?
So like the last time I had like
nine pages of notes and I had my wife
read it, I'm like, look at that shit.
Like I'm going to be soaking
on that for a long time.
Like I had the whole death and rebirth and
like, I like, I saw people like, I mean,
the last time it was really, it was very
beautiful that I had done it and like,
it was like this whole death rebirth.
I mean, it was like.
Yeah.
I mean, I could go into the, my epiphanies
from that, but I think like, yeah,
there's all, there's too much there, but
it's like, now it's like, okay, there's
been this normal, you know, humdrum of,
of life and things have been going and
like it, I mean, it's, it's so similar
to like, cause I love snowboarding.
It's like, you have a beautiful powder
day and you got the full landscape,
but then at four o'clock when you're,
when the thing's shutting down and
you got all the grooves and those
grooves kind of become, I listened
to how stuck those grooves might be.
And I just need a new fresh powder day.
Fantastic.
This is beautiful.
So ultimately, what are you doing in this
moment coming off of a vacation in Mexico?
What are you going to do to be
gentle with yourself and action?
Oh, that's a good question.
Probably not doing as
gentle as I should have.
I probably could have relaxed more
and I, I, I got a bunch of cool
stuff I'm working on with work.
And so it's just live, just balance,
trying to balance it the right way,
honestly, like coming back and making
sure that I'm present with my kids and
you know, we, we schedule some activities
to be present and it's, that's where
like, you know, another thing that I've
realized that it works is when I have a
deep breath planning a week in advance.
Or even a month.
It's like, hey, here's the kind
of the, you know, the whole
rocks, pebbles, sand, water thing.
Like, here's the shit I'm
gonna do so that way I'm making
commitments when I've got energy.
Cause like everyday, like, I mean, shit.
I can't tell you how much I
freaking hate doing dinner.
I hate it.
I know we should meal plan.
I'm tired.
We pick up the kids.
My wife and I look at each other.
We do like the whole like,
you know, finger on nose.
Not me!
Cause she loves her personal time too.
So it was just trying to back to your
question, probably just work through
like, Hey, what do we got going on
that we should look forward to that
are the rewards of take a deep breath,
be present with the family, hang out
with, you know, hang out with friends.
Well, and you, it sounds like
you just opened an invitation.
I want to embark you on is maybe
go to culinary school with all, and
then you'll really, oh, all right.
So let's, let's walk
through a culinary school.
My life looks like it looks like.
Heat the oven to 425 for
chicken nuggets and fries.
I'm really good at white
and yellow mac and cheese.
Are we going to insert hot dogs tonight?
And like getting my daughters
to actually like real food.
I think turning around of a
business is more, is more easy,
is easier than trying to get a kid
to, you know, expand their palate.
Right.
And honestly, in closing this, Ryan,
one of the things that I find our
relationship so, so connected is that
you can go hard in the paint with
seriousness and devotion to like, and
be so well versed in trying things on,
but you can also make fun of yourself.
Like I do quite quickly.
You're just like, and that's,
I think a humbling practice.
Is it not?
And as you can say, Hey, I'm
devoted to myself, but I also know
when I can set that fucking down.
A hundred percent, dude.
And then I'll tell you what, like.
The moment that I get like, and honestly,
I mean, I swear a little bit too.
I swear too much.
I'm aware.
But like, honestly, Ryan, like when I
look at, they're in the business world
that I'm in, I have zero desire to work
with someone that can't fucking laugh.
Like, I mean, what is the point?
Like, you can't take yourself so
seriously, like, whether it's your
materialistic shit, or whatever
award you got, I just don't care.
Like, it just doesn't matter.
So, like, if we can't laugh,
like, what is the point, man?
I don't know.
And the reason why you swear so
much is because in a former life,
I think we were pirates on a ship.
I mean, I've seen that
in a psychedelic session.
I'm not saying but I might have.
Oh, I was like and I what doesn't help it?
Cause it, like, it's one of my bad
habits that I would like to crack and
I just can't figure out how to do it.
And there's just, it's so versatile.
All the words are, and I was
terrible at grammar and English.
And what, what, what is not helping my
cause is my daughters who are eight.
They know that they, they call
them daddy words and they won't
even say like crap or poop.
And so like I, I got through.
Like no, like, like back to like
negative consequences, I got
zero on this entire front so far.
And so like, like, cause my daughter's
like, Daddy, you shouldn't say that.
People think you don't,
you're dumb when you say that.
I'm like, ah, I trained you.
Isn't that the whole point?
Teach them the quarter thing.
You'll lose all your money.
Oh, yeah.
What are you leaving with?
What do you want to live?
Embed something before we go.
I would love to hear, what would your last
remarks be about yourself and who you are?
The journey, man.
The experience is the point.
You know, it's, you got to get
in the arena and, you know,
be gracious with yourself.
Yeah.
Good.
And the relationship, that weaving,
that trust, I, I'm humbled by it
and I thank you for trusting me.
Yeah, the relationships are, are, that's
a whole nother conversation cause I,
we didn't even get into that, how you
opened it up with that and relationships
are a unique topic in itself.
Well, that's me showcasing my
devotion to ADHD in this conversation.
Or just guaranteeing a part
two somewhere in the future.
Fuck yeah.
Blessings.
Blessings.