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Is your business run like a family? Is your family more like a business? Could I be any more cryptic in this opening? Today we're talking about family businesses and the good, the bad, and the better. You thought I was going to say the ugly. There's no ugly in family business.
We're going to talk about all that on this edition of The Inside VS Show. Hey now, I'm Dave Lorenzo. I'm the Godfather of Growth.
And here with me today, of course, is Nikki G. Hey, Nicola. How are you today? Hi, Dave. Doing great.
How about you? I'm doing fantastic. So I know that this is something that really resonates with you because growing up, you just had to walk down the hall and there was Gary Gellermino and the family business. So this is a topic that is really close to your heart.
Is it not? Oh, it sure is, Dave. Well, I remember I was there watching my family build this business from the ground up in the basement of my childhood home. So I remember day one with nobody there.
I remember the first salesperson that was hired and the move to each building. So I've lived all of this. So I'm very excited about today.
All right. So let me ask you, Nicola, when you were growing up, when you were a kid, let's say when you're old enough to kind of know what's going on, like I would say maybe 11, 12, 13 years old, did you view there like being a difference between dad, the business guy and dad, the dad, or was he just dad? And there was like a whole continuation of business and personal. My dad was pretty consistent.
Like I definitely have litigator personality and outside of the courtroom personality. My father was pretty consistent. Like he was the same person, I think for the most part at home as he was in the office.
Let me give you an example. You've got something going on in your life. You've got a problem.
And he was kind of less about like, let's talk about your feelings then. Well, we need to solve the problem. So tell me how you're going to solve this problem.
Because as you know, entrepreneurs, that's what they do. They're problem solvers. And he's given me a lot of great skill sets as a child, early child, that's for sure.
Moving into adulthood. It sounds like every discussion you and I have ever had. So every discussion you and I have ever had, whether it's where should we park the car to where do you want to go to eat is, so what do you want me to do about this? So like, let's get to the bottom line here, right? And that's how both of us are wired.
And it's because of growing up in business, in a family business. So let's bring on our guests so that we can talk about this dynamic and so much more as it relates to family businesses. Nicola, why don't you go ahead and introduce everyone to our guests today? Ah, it's my pleasure to do so.
So our guest today is Oscar Paiz. And Oscar is a global family business consultant, a CEO, and a master scuba diver training. I would say he is the most interesting family business consultant you will meet.
So without further ado, let's bring on Oscar. Good morning, Oscar. How are you? Good morning, Nicola.
How are you? I'm doing great, thank you. What a pleasure to have you here. No, pleasure to be here.
And I know you guys have been talking a lot about family business and how to work and navigate through that. Awesome. And who better to do this with than someone who lived a similar experience as I did growing up, which led you, I think, to get into family business consultancy.
So that's where I'd like to start. I'd like to start with, you know, you became the CEO, I believe, of your family business. So tell us like how early on you started and what your experience was like.
Oh, I know. I mean, it is definitely, it's very close to my heart. And being in family business, I guess I was born as part of a family business.
So my grandfather started an agricultural business back in the days. Then my father left the business, never actually worked with him, and started his own company. And I guess I was playing between bushels and corn and all these things.
We started a feed mine fracturing company in Colombia. So it's been there. So yeah, a lot of the things that have happened, even though I've mixed into finance business, M&A definitely comes from having been part of that system.
And then how long, so how many years were you part of the family business before you went off on your own? Depending on who you ask, and how many times I've quit. No, I guess technically I started once I graduated from college, I knew I had a family business. I was here, I was in Miami, and I decided to move back to Colombia and joined the business because I had done an internship with Merrill Lynch, work with families in wealth.
And at that point, it was like, oh yeah, my dad has a business, so I'm just gonna go. And they decided to make up a position, which I later then realized, and this is one of the big issues that you see in some of the family businesses. And they brought me in, at that point also my uncle was working with them, and generated some really interesting dynamics.
So that was the first time I quit after a year, came back, did my master's degree, also an interesting experience. Worked with some conflict resolution stuff. It's like a multidisciplinary degree where I was able to see the influence in between politics and economics, and then it was talking about family businesses.
So it was an interesting mix. At that time, I did work for a not-for-profit, it's called Ecologic Finance, or back then it was called Ecologic Finance, now it's Root Capital, which is actually led by the son of the former president of the University of Miami, that they were talking about how to finance coffee in the region with families that were growing coffee. So it was really interesting because I've always worked with families, around families, and then I ended up going to Credit Suisse, for Boston to work with family offices in the region.
So it's always been like that. Then went back again to the family business at some point, under a very particular circumstance. So I decided to go back to Colombia at some point within my finance career, and my father, half of his face was paralyzed.
So he asked me to stop playing banker and come join him. It was an interesting negotiation process because he thought it's one of the things that we see in the practices, they often want to pay salaries according to market value. So he was like, yeah, this is all going to be yours in the future, so I'm going to pay you minimum salary.
I do have my own finance career. So we ended up negotiating something that was clearly not market price, but I ended up accepting it, and I was happy to do so. I mean, it's a long story because then I realized that he was selling the company, and it's a huge thing.
So I don't know how much time we have, but we probably could do a complete episode of this. I think that's the idea. I think the idea is to really give some of our listeners and viewers insight.
So to answer your question in a long, short way, I think I did three seasons. So this is like any Netflix family business story. And I in total worked around seven.
Now, I've been actively involved in different family businesses. You always talk about the three systems, and it is technically, it's the family system, the business system, and the ownership system. And regardless whether you're involved in active management, a lot of us do have to be part of this business because we continue to be part of the family.
We may be either a beneficiary or an owner from the owner's perspective. There's a trust structure or something like this. And well, some of those that ended up working and have worked for the business, and I still have now an active, more of a board sort of governance role.
I am part of that. So working for the business, I think I worked three times. My last role was a CEO.
I worked on the governance side. So I've been part of the board. We have boards in some of the business, and we've had also advisory boards within that I've been part of.
And I'm part of the family, so ownership group as well. So I've been in those different roles, multiple different lengths, if that answers your question. Yeah, absolutely.
And it sounds like you have seen all different aspects of this business at different points in time in its journey and in your own journey. So that's really what I wanted to highlight. So thank you for that.
Dave, let me go ahead and turn it over to you. Well, so Oscar, you brought up something really interesting as you were describing the dynamic between you and your father. And you said that, my father wanted me to come into the business and because I'm his son, although I thought I was gonna get paid market rate, he didn't wanna pay me market rate.
Let's highlight that, not specifically to rub salt in your wound, but to highlight some of the ways that the relationship exerts pressure on the business, right? Now, people ask me all the time, Dave, what makes family businesses different? And this, the point that you brought up in telling your story, this is it. Like you can quit or you could get fired, but you're still somebody's son and that somebody was still your former boss and they may try to bring you back again. Talk about that dynamic and how the family, the blood creates pressure and enables this dynamic to take place.
No, it is. It is one of those things. And I think it's one of the important lessons that I think I've learned and I've been practicing with my daughter.
And some of your previous podcasts, we've talked about talent, like bringing talent. It's not only outside talent. How do you bring your own family talent into the table? Because at the same time, like, you know, if I'm able to go outside and get a work, like what's Wall Street and all sorts of stuff.
And I come back here and he was actually offering me a salary, which was lower than my allowance back when I was in the States, right? It just makes no sense. And it was so funny that it just, it seemed to like, okay, that's all. How does this work? Hey, you get the salary, but you got to cut the grass too.
It was funny because it was one of the first issues that we had, like how do my father being the, like a larger owner than my uncle, he would ask me to go to the farms and check on the farms. And my actually my boss was my uncle and that generated a lot of conflict between them. So no, I mean, we can talk about stories all day long, but it is very important, right? We need to understand that if you're a family member, you are also an employee.
And some of these family, don't really like to hear it. And right now I'm working with a family that are like, no, I'm not going to work for anybody. It's like, yeah, you're going to work for your family.
Therefore you need to follow the schedule. I mean, I know you've heard another and I've heard your thoughts because we could talk about like, you know, clear roles. How do you, how do you have this? What are the roles? So what are the compensation? So on and so forth.
And, you know, we talk about family employment policies or family policies, and they need to fit within the corporation and the corporate work. So yeah, I know I was never paid market rates and that was one of the biggest issues. And I did get some perks.
Now it's also those perks bring issues, right? Because at some point family members feel that because they're part of the family business, they can take a longer vacation. They can show up late, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this is not a reality.
You're an employee and you like it or not. You need to understand that if you want to be part of the system where you're working for the business, well, you need to adhere to those rules, right? So it's super important. So there's two things I want to pick up on, Oscar.
First, because I think this will make you feel better about your salary negotiations. There was a summer that my brother and I were tasked with painting the side of the building. No role is beneath you when you're working for a family business and you have to do that role with pride.
So we painted that side of the building all summer. The second thing I wanted to pick up on was you're talking about how you really can't treat family members different. And Dave and I have had conversations about that.
I do want you to just elaborate on that a little bit more in terms of how that could impact the culture of the organization. So you're having these discussions, right, about how long is the vacation going to be or with you or other family members. But I think a big takeaway for us has been how that can impact the culture if you do provide additional benefits or leniency to family members compared to other employees in the organization.
No, great question. I mean, culture is everything. I think values, and I often work with multi-generational family businesses.
So one of the things that I love doing is just helping these families thrive through the generations. And at some point, I was all about keeping the business in the family. I think now as I've grown and understood also, multi-generational wealth doesn't come from just the business.
So at some point, people may need to exit. And it's very important to understand in honor of the fact that they need to go have those exit strategies, look about either do we continue on this business? Are the newer generation members looking to change something, right? And as a family, we need to understand it. But culture from, one thing is from a founder to a second generation.
And they're very, this could be very paternalistic or maternalistic depending on who is the founder, right? You do have some women that business and women founded. And it generates certain dynamics that I've seen it in even in certain where they actually lend money to their employees, right? And they're not banks. And I remember once I worked into, once again, my family business, but it's in another, because it also works for other families in business, right? So I've been in all of the seven intersections of the three systems.
How does it affect, right? So how do, one is from the family perspective, and there is two views, right? Either the father that is over, father and mother is over, like they want you to be there before everybody, leave after. One of my things, I mean, my salary was nothing. He really felt that I needed to work 24 seven and I did.
But he wanted me to go to the factory at like Sundays or holidays. And it was like, I can be there. We have technology.
There's a lot of technology that I even tried to implement it back then, which was a big issue that now he sees in his like control room with a 70 something cameras and some of the people that are there, poor them, because he lives in between a couple of cities and he's just like watching. He's like this big, big, big room where he's, why did you pick this up? Why are you not doing this? And it's scary that he has this. So very interesting.
But back to the same thing is like, either you can lead by example and show good things, but it can also be the opposite, right? It's like, then you put so much pressure to your family members that they have to be this exemplary way of doing things that you can make them become a family business consultant. And so it is a completely different thing. But in the other side, I have this family that I worked with a few years ago.
They had sleep disorders. And the founder would come in and he would start attending, like having the meetings around 4 p.m. And it was crazy because he would have all his employees would start working at 8 a.m. They would come in and he would get here at four. They would have to stay in line to wait for him until whatever, like 11 p.m. And as the transition was going to the next generation, well, the son, he also had this sleep disorder, but we were trying to figure it out because the coal company couldn't work around in their own schedule, which they were very, very like night owls.
And we need to say like, either you bring somebody else or you figure something out because you can't continue because this is gonna affect the organization. So, and I can give you plenty of examples on how culture affect the organization in multiple levels. So, Oscar, you mentioned your family business.
What industry was your family business in? So, originally we were in a protein production, but we have pet food, real estate. We have poultry, which that one was sold. And we also did the commercial feed ration.
So, kind of Purina sort of company, right? We manufacture horse feed, cat food, swine, everything, you name it. Nowadays, we're mostly into layers. So, pet production, but commercial ration.
Is there a tendency for family businesses to be in one industry more than others? Do family businesses tend to, like, for example, do family businesses show up in agricultural industries or manufacturing industries? Is there any tendency for family businesses to be in a particular industry? No, I feel that, I mean, I've worked in multiple industries. Clearly, I'm industrial, depending on the family. They start, a lot of them started there or they have some sort of influence there.
Also real estate. But I think it's like, when do you, and I have this concept, like, this is a family business, but this is a family enterprise. When do you switch from being a family business, because you created a business to create wealth for your family, or really, like, economic support for them, right? And then when do you turn into an enterprising family, which is, regardless of what the business is, we'll look for a different industry, right? Now, clearly, families, and we talk about, this is another interesting approach from my practices, we talk about the poly-capital approach.
So, you know, me, back in 20-something years ago, we looked at the net worth of the family, only at their assets and their financial base. Now, I think nowadays, you have to look at the poly-capital approach and what's their real wealth, right? What are those key competencies they can use in other industries if they actually decide to sell the business or buy another one? And you always hear about, like, if you're concentrated, you can do a lot of wealth creation, and then you kind of diversify to maintain your wealth, which is true. But a lot of these families have been able to create a network of businesses where they support each other, so they're able to grow organically.
And there's another family that I work with, they started also agro-industry, I work with a lot of them. And then now they have a transportation company, they have restaurants, they have the meat production, they have a port. So they have different things that are added to each other.
But at the end of the day, and then the sister decided to study architecture, so now they started a construction company. And it really depends on the family, but it varies. I feel that you find family business and everything is changed a little bit now with the new age entrepreneur or the next generation, where we are often seeing that their capital was coming from somewhere else.
So you have these people that are really all about the exit, right? And now that's one of the biggest challenges, how do I keep my next generation wanting to be part of the family business and not wanting to start their own startup? Like I did, I actually at some point had my own startup and nothing to do directly with the family business. So you have to navigate all those things. But family businesses come from anything.
And the dynamics are the same, whether it's a little small mom and pop shop, or Walmart or Cargill, some of the largest private companies in the world. One of the things that we've seen in working with business owners, and it is a natural for family businesses is that all of them get into real estate in some way, whether they need a warehouse or they need a manufacturing facility, or they are in retail, they all realize at some point, one of the avenues for us to create wealth for future generations is going to be real estate. And we can own the real estate, lease it back to this business.
And if we ever decide to exit, we can still own the real estate. So is that like in your experience, are 90% of these businesses somehow tied to real estate at some point? Oh, for sure. I mean, I think it's also because it comes from the family, right? I think most families, because there are certain cultures that do feel that owning a home is not necessarily the first thing that they want to do.
But as we grow, I mean, the first thing they want to buy to their family is a roof, right? So that's when you start getting into real estate. It's like, do you want to buy a home? Do you want to buy a car? But yeah, I think in the wealth progression, which we call, it's like, okay, the business, it really also depends if the business owner, it's more business, or what does he want to focus more on? But most likely, they will get into real estate at some point. I have a funny story about also when I worked with my father.
So we owned the real estate, and he always said that he would probably make more money renting the real estate that we owned. It's like near an airport. And I told him, that's fine.
Just value it, see what's the market price. And if we can't pay rent for this, at market value, it's done. We'll either move the company somewhere else or make decisions among those wealths.
And it is, I've gone, and then I've gone into some families that they actually, their network within real estate is large, like largely, when you compare it to the business, and they may have like a, actually if I'm working with a family right now, the revenue is a million dollar revenue. Now they're seventh generation family, and they have very large real estate, and they have very large a ranch, which is worth millions. And it's how do I maintain, I mean, this asset here, it's producing X, Y, and Z. If I sell this asset, I'm gonna be able to put it in the stock market or any other investments and produce 10 times or 20 times what I could do with my business.
So what do I do? No, they wanna keep the family business, and then how do we mix it? And there's a lot of conversations that we need to have, which is one of the things that I do. I kind of facilitate conversations to figure out what makes sense for the family, the business, and the whole system itself. So.
I want to zoom out for a moment, so to speak for our audience, Oscar, and I would like for you to highlight the key areas that you focus on, because you work with so many family businesses. You work with family businesses across the United States, across multiple different countries. So when we kind of put that work into buckets, tell our audience, like these are the few areas I really focus on, and then I have a follow-up for you in one of those.
Thank you. No, I mean, I think it's evolved and changed, and I think it's all about motion and evolution. I started from the finance world, and I was coming from M&A, and family, and wealth management, right? So when I started this work, which I still do, and I love it, and I guess I've come back a little bit to that, it's when families have to make a decision, not only sell their company, but any big decision, you need to align the family in order for, one, to facilitate the work for the advisors that help them, because I've gone into businesses that do M&A, or they do other stuff, or they need a lawyer, and they just can't make up their mind, right? And it's very frustrating.
I know, I think I had another podcast from you, Dave, you talked about how maybe a family member, and it happened to me in my M&A world, somebody can just decide not to sell their company, even having everything signed, and there is a lot of family emotion. I had this issue with this other family that I had worked with. We had sold one of the largest beverage company in a country down south, I'm not gonna say names, because it's a very large family, to another very wealthy family in another country, right? It was about a $400 million transaction.
Everything was ready, we had signed everything, and the day of the actual finalizing the transaction, the CEO calls us in the morning and says, guys, I have bad news. He's like, okay, what happens? I mean, are you sick? Are you not coming? You know, we can't sell the company. Okay, well, this is... I mean, we're signing today.
You know, this is gonna cost you a lot. And you know, my mom had a dream last night that my dad told her not to sell the company. And the deal was off, right? Regardless whether it was right or wrong, it was just this family emotion.
So it's dealing with those family emotions, a lot of the stuff that I do, facilitating those. Also, a lot of the founders are deeply ingrained with the identity of their... I mean, my father is a great example. He's always worked from 5 a.m. to whatever.
I mean, he only knows that he's him but it's really deeply related to what I call my big sister, the company, because it's just for a child, right? He doesn't play golf. He doesn't have any hobby. He actually just works and works and works.
And his identity is tied really deeply. And how do you have those processes of helping those founders do a transition? We don't really call it succession anymore. We call it transition because it is a process where you need to start working slowly but surely.
And the soul has its own speed. And how do you have those conversations to be able to do it at some point? And so maybe say, like, you know, I want to die running this thing. Okay, fine, good.
Let's talk about it. And let's figure it out because it might be the way to do it, right? But as long as you prepare for when you die, because it's very responsible. I think that some of them do say, you know, I want to die running this thing.
And they just kind of leave it because there's so many implications, right? You need multidisciplinary approach. You need lawyers. You need trust in state.
You need... There's so many disciplines that need to kind of interact. There it is. And I'm getting... This is all family business.
I love what it is, right? You kind of go in tandem. But I do a lot of conflict resolution. I do innovation and entrepreneurship.
So we talk about entrepreneurship a lot, right? But since we want to keep the family's wealth within the family, how do you support a strategy to support the next generation that wants to do entrepreneurship innovation and you keep the wealth within the family? And when I'm talking about wealth, I'm talking about, like, the knowledge. Also, some of the things, like, people that come from family business are more likely to be entrepreneurs because this is what they see, right? And how do you do that? And the other thing that I work a lot is what we call impact. And impact, it's a lot of the philanthropic work, good business practices.
So like a B Corps or how do I understand all the stakeholders? How do we do advocacy? And how do we do also investments like sustainable investments? But not from the Greenpeace sort of way, but it's like, how do we do this kind of thing in a more progressive way, in a regenerative way? So that's one of the things. And I do use a lot of technology and other things that are more non-typical for your day-to-day consulting gigs, right? Now, do I do it myself? Not everything. So we always work in multidisciplinary groups.
Yeah, and you can hear it in your response that a lot of this, I mean, overall, strategically you are planning for the future of this family business in a lot of what you're doing. So I do wanna ask you this, when you come in, I mean, what's your approach? Because you can handle so many different aspects of a family business from the dynamics to the impact. So when you come in, what is the approach in terms of where am I going to start with this new family? No, I think it's really important to really do a diagnostic, right? It's interesting because families don't often agree or wanna pay for a proper diagnostic.
Now, at some point in my career, I kind of knew what it was, but you kind of will figure it out in the way because things will come out. So usually when they call us, I mean, there's two types of clients, right? They'll never tell us what the real issue is. So it may be something else.
They're like, oh, we wanna try this. We're thinking about whether we buy or sell and whether we do this. There will be something else that is really the underlying issue.
So what I like to do, and I think it's very responsible, is just going into the family system because we work for the system, not for an individual. And we'll try to have as many interviews from the system, right? So I always like to try to have initial interviews with the family members that work in the business, whether they're owners or not. Owners, other advisors, employees to be able to get a perspective from a different, like a 360 approach, right? Because ultimately there's a lot of system theory behind what we do.
And I also use, and I bring technology in, so there is some communications and I use assessments like the disk assessment that we all do. I actually use Enneagram, which it tells you a little bit of the personality. So I use different assessments to understand the individual and some of the key factors of communication and ways of the conflict resolution.
I've actually started using something, which is really interesting. It's like, how do people learn? So there's a quick assessment where a lot of people, even myself, I'm more of a viewer, listener than book reader. I came to realize that I had ADHD while I was in high school.
And this is funny, but the way that Latin mothers treat ADHD is not with medicine, but with force. And we're here in Miami, but the flying chancay is a reality, not a myth. And that's how we treat ADHD.
And I came to realize that I learned better by, so when I buy a book, I buy the audio book, I buy the book, and I actually have to follow the thing because it was harder for me. I've excelled in academics at points, but things that I really enjoyed, clearly English literature wasn't my best subject but I was able to learn. So for me, trying to figure out how people learn from the family assistance makes my job easier because maybe I need to just do a podcast for the next generation or maybe even for the older generation because they're what I call the legacy generation because they might not see that reading.
They rather hear me talking and they feel that I'm talking to them. So it's important to learn. And I think some of those are really interesting.
So my last thing that we do, we will use, like there's a Lego methodology or there's a, where you kind of put little toys and you see different dynamics, which is part of like the constellations. And it gives it an x-ray of how people are seeing this from the different perspectives. And we use a ton, lots of tools.
All right. So I feel the need as the Latin American translator of the group here, I feel the need to translate for our audience the flying chancleta because my wife has introduced me to this concept. So for those of you who don't know, my wife is Ecuadorian Cuban.
My kids grew up speaking Spanish. We speak Spanish as much as we can in the home. My kids don't answer me in Spanish when I speak to them in Spanish, but my wife is fluent.
Y mi suegra is also fluent and she's the one who introduced the concept of the flying chancleta to our family. So for those of you who don't know, a chancleta is a flip-flop. And because we live in a tropical climate, we tend to wear chancletas all the time.
And it's very easy to take them off and chase people around the house with them. And when the kids get fast enough so that you can't catch them, that's where the flying chancleta comes in. So for those of you who don't know, in a Latin family, the flying chancleta is a very common thing.
So that's the one-minute version of discipline in a Latin family for those of you who are unfamiliar. So Oscar, thank you. This is the first reference.
800 shows, Oscar! This is the first reference ever to a flying chancleta. One side of my family could not be prouder. I promise you that right now.
It's like a boomerang, right? It's like they somehow they have this great skill of cautionary. The level of accuracy is unbelievable. It is an incredible skill that is probably passed down from generation to generation.
So the flying chancleta is something that everyone should familiarize themselves with. Oscar, let me ask you this question because you've referenced a couple of times trusted advisors to families. So for us, when we're working with family businesses, it's inevitable that we get involved with the person who's the CPA, the person who's the accountant, and also usually the lawyer, right? Of course, there's a corporate transactional lawyer.
There's a person who handles the business stuff, but the estate planning lawyer plays an important role in protecting the assets from outside forces as well as from taxes. Help us help our friends who are advisors and the people we work with who are advisors. What do lawyers, accountants, and other consultants, financial advisors get wrong? What do they underestimate when it comes to family businesses? Please block the comment because I'm gonna get a hammer for this.
No, no, I think, I mean, I think lawyers, especially trust and state, and actually, I was at a family gathering in San Diego the other day. One of the board members is a former corporate lawyer, which was like very lawyer-structured, corporate, former head of a very large corporation, and now he understands the whole dynamic of family business, right? How to empathize, how do you really put yourself in those shoes? Now, I know, and I've had the, I guess, the fortune and really just the honor of being able to work with two of my mentors, which one came from the European School of Thought, and the other one came from the American School of Thought, and there was difference. Like at some point, U.S., or some consultants or some advisors, kind of the first thing was like, just get everybody from the family out of the business, and that's, that's always the first advice, like, no, because then you're no longer a family business, right? Like, unless, that's what, that's the fuel.
And, or just sell the company. And I think selling it, it's a valid option, and trust me, I was, I matured on this because I would want to do anything I could in order to keep the family within the business, but it is an option, but it's not the first option. Most, most people, I think, most family business members would, if you ask them, okay, if you didn't have this conflict, would you sell the company? And most of them might say, they would say no, right? So, I think when, and it's also because most founders or people in business don't really know how to explain to their advisors what they want.
So, most often than not, I may have a family member that would come and ask a state lawyer to maximize their tax efficiencies, which is fine, and it's very important. Now, they'll, they'll do that, and they'll come and they, if I would have known better, I maybe would have become a tax lawyer, even though I wouldn't enjoy it as much. I think it was more, it was much more profitable because there is great savings, they do a great job, but they'll do what they ask.
Now, the family, the founder never said, do maximize my tax efficiencies, but keep my family together, right? And that takes a different thought process because you come into nowadays with like the global community. And Dave, you're talking about like how, you know, I'm, I'm, I was proud to be a born Colombian, but I am more American in a lot of things. I ended up going to like a boarding school.
So, I mean, I have different things in my background that you may come into like multiple citizenships. And with the families that I work, they have, may have, I mean, three passports. And what are the tax implications in this place? So, some families use the trust in order to take ownership, but then how do I develop emotional ownership? So, if I'm not really an owner, I'm just a beneficiary, how does that affect the people? And what do I need to do if we actually do this because it's science, it's an option to do it? How do I generate that emotional ownership from the family members? So, it's really think about the family and like understand all of the systems that are around and definitely make sure that they just only, they don't only do what they're really good at, but they do that and understand the family, right? It's like, how does this kind of create conflict within the system? And that's the most important thing.
That's why I mean, I come, I advise a lot of advisors because we do some workshops to help advisors understand that it's not about just doing whatever they need to do, because if they do it as a regular corporation, they may be missing a lot of value and they may actually be getting their clients in trouble and certain things that they don't realize. But if they did take these things into consideration, their job would be much easier and we definitely create a bigger and a stronger tie with their own clients because they really feel understood, right? So it's kind of a virtue cycle and you can do it as an accountant. It's like, yes, I understand.
Also, there's a lot of people that kind of do try to, there's family businesses, they end up trying to mix their families and their business accounting together. And at some point it's like, you can do it, it's a good practice, but how do we really properly divide things? Even though it may be good for tax purposes, then how do you explain if you're gonna sell the company? So there's a lot of things that you need to keep in mind. And it's not always about planning on tax purposes, but plan from like family needs.
I think you talk about, once again, to me, the family is important, the ownership, then the business. You need to think of them as different systems and then as the individuals that interact with them, right? Because as I said, I mean, even within my own family or part of the families, the tax implications of something happening to my father would be different because we have different nationalities. My son was born here, he's American, we're dual citizens, some of them have a European passport.
So how are you gonna understand these things to really effectively help the families? I'm so glad that you mentioned this aspect about the advisors kind of come, some of them stepping in and treating this as just a regular business. So if you are out there listening and you're offended by that, you need to be listening to this because Oscar truly gets this, that a family business can't be viewed and treated the same way as any other organization. There are very unique dynamics there that go on with the family.
And I think I mentioned, Oscar, to you that Dave and I now run a meeting similar to what you're saying, where we help advisors learn how to work with family businesses. There's a family business meeting that we host monthly for that purpose, for the educational purpose of helping those who want to work with family businesses truly understand the best way to do that so that it serves the family well and it serves them well as an advisor moving forward. And we also work with family businesses in our firm that we've built.
So again, so important that you've highlighted that because you cannot treat these the same and you really have to understand everything that's going on, that holistic approach that you're taking, the interviews that you conduct. I mean, you really get in there and truly understand who am I dealing with so that you can be the most effective consultant that you are in that space. It is, and what you guys do is great.
And I think it's all the organizations that help advisors understand. I think there's FFI, there's FFP, and there's different things that are out there that can help understand those dynamics. Now, do you need to go as a lawyer and start asking about the secrets in the family? Maybe not, right? But how much do you really need to know? I go really in depth and I really go in my depth.
But just having an understanding, also if it was your own family, what would you do, right? Ask yourself that question. If it wasn't a family business, and a lot of people are, come, or have been involved with family businesses, ultimately, depending on the country, anywhere from 70 to 95% of businesses are family-owned. They started like that.
They have some sort of dynamic. And their dynamics are the same whether they're a small business or a large multinational, multi-generational company. Now, does it get more complicated? It does.
But also working with the small systems could get very complicated. Even if you have only two siblings, it's just a 50-50. Legally, how do we come to conflict resolution if we have an issue? We learn to be business partners with our siblings.
So only childs have an issue of dealing because they've never had to do. That's the thing with my son. Right now, locally from both sides, there's no thing.
He wants to run the family. He wants to run his grandfather's company. I'm like, good luck with that.
But he's the only one. We probably will do. But it really is learning to communicate.
And there's things that from the advisory role, and I think the work that you guys are doing is great, not only helping families, but helping advisors, to understand the intricacies of the work that they do at the different levels. And really, I think, honestly, there's one consultant that says that they can do it all. Don't hire them.
They're lying. And I love to see that. You guys, Dave and Nick, ultimately, women are for business and men are for moms.
We have different energies and different understanding. And this is very valid in the family system. How do you work? I always really like to work with a male and a female engagement because we see things differently.
We understand. So we understand. We connect with different things.
And we also may relate better with other family members. So it's super important. And I think there's families sometimes because of cost.
They would want to not work with a team, at least of two. And I think it's super important. But it is good to check it by the wife or the husband or whatever it is because it is a different mentality.
We see things differently. Oscar, what are some of the groups and organizations that family business owners can take part in so that they can learn some of the different approaches? Because one of the things that we've found is if we have to educate people, it takes a lot longer for us to get involved with people. It's easier to get involved with people who've gone to seminars and who've been a part of organizations and learned some of the topics, learned about some of the topics or learned some of the strategies that we've talked about.
So what groups and organizations should family business owners belong to? So for sure. One of the ones that I'm a member and I'm an active member, but I've been a board member and I was a board member in Colombia. I'm a board member here.
It's the Family Business Network, right? This is an organization from families, by families, for families that they help kind of understand these different dynamics. And it's a membership-based organization where, first of all, it's a non-solicitation network. So people don't have to be afraid that they're going to be trying to sell them anything and everything.
Because we do kind of respect and create that space to where people find themselves, one, that they belong, right? And sometimes can we get there very lonely out there in family businesses? Because one of the questions that I get asked the most from my clients is, are we the worst family you've ever worked with? And no, you're not. And we all have families and we all watch Succession and we all watch Yellowstone. I mean, it could get like that.
There's plenty of other shows that I can refer you to where you can actually see some things that are closer to reality than what you actually think of. But it's a network of help there. I mean, YPO, it's also one of them, but they're more for the individual, but they do have a family business now.
Like, at the end, it is for the family. And I think it's great. And that's the one I really... I know there's also a lot of academic institutions that have their own family business center, which would be great to be able to get something in in South Florida.
But University of Columbia has one. Kansas State has one. I mean, there's a bunch all over the country.
There's a list of a bunch. If you guys want it, I can probably gather it up and give it to you guys. But it's a great resource.
And they may be different, right? Some of them may provide consulting. Some of them do education. I think online nowadays, you can find a lot of resources and it's important to educate.
It is one of the pillars, right? In order for us to be able to help the families thrive, it's about education. Now, educating the owners, there is no such thing as a master's in ownership in business, right? This doesn't exist. Most of us that go to MBA or to go to law school or to go to this academic places are prepared to go into the corporate world.
Now, when you go into the family business or a family business, whether you are a family member or not, because it's also very different to work for a part about talent, right? If you go work for a local-based business, which could be great. We have a really great family-owned business here in South Florida. You have, you know, the Mass Corporation and I can give you Publix's family-owned business.
There's multiple family-owned businesses that are a great and historic economy in the world economy. And they have a different kind of view. Even though they may be more professionalized, it is different to work for a family business or a family member, even from a family offices, which are now involved.
And this can relate with the family, the wealth advisors. Once you've talked to a one family office, you've talked to one family office. And hopefully they don't have multiple brothers and sisters working there because it is different.
And that's something I want to pick up on because these businesses are different from one family to the next, right? No family is the same. So the dynamics are very unique. So let me ask this, because you work with so many different family businesses, what does success look like to you? And I mean, beyond the numbers, beyond the financials, like what does success look like to you in the family business based on your work? Now, before I answer that, there's also other organizations that are out there.
There's plenty of resources. And I think for advisors, there's also something like the Family Farm Institute, which is also a very interesting organization that kind of helps people understand those dynamics. But that it is.
And to me, to answer your question, I think for me as an advisor, it's hard to go and say, this is what we want, right? Because ultimately we need to be facilitators. And I can't, because sometimes we may go in to help a family with a certain issue. And at the end of the day, the result may be selling the company, right? And it is just kind of honoring the fact that things evolve and change.
And that's just a new change and is the birth of a new wealth opportunity. Now, I think once people have those exits, family issues could become greater if they're not properly accompanied, right? And I do a lot of this. I do go with some of these people, families that they've never seen this amounts of wealth.
And now they feel because it's easier to divide the wealth. And maybe the founder doesn't want to, or whatever it is. It can generate greater challenges if you don't have the proper conversation before that.
Yeah, and that's something we absolutely see in our business and deal with Oscar, which is the, you know, what do you do after? Like you've got to have a plan for after, especially if you're selling that business. You know, what are the owners going to do? And what have we done to prepare for that wealth transfer so that we make sure they're best positioned to put that money in the right places and to make it last? That's a whole other, you know, discussion and consideration that has to be made. I think from the time perspective, that's like, you know, to me, is you have to honor the past, right? You have to lead the present and you have to prepare the future.
And then within those, how do you understand that everything affects everything else? And we need to keep it in mind in order to kind of help the family, with good communication, because I think most families fail because they have lack of communication understanding, lack of empathy. I do a lot of conflict resolution and I train in this methodology. It's called the non-free methodology by mailing peacemakers, which I'm also very involved with.
And they teach you really how to like, have a open communication and have a better way to solve conflicts, even internal conflicts. Sometimes we may have an issue internally and we're not really trained with those tools. Oscar, is conflict resolution such a big deal in family businesses? Because the person who you have a conflict with can leave the business, but they can't leave the family.
There's still blood, right? Is that why? Because I don't see conflict resolution in business looks like you're fired. That's what conflict resolution in business is. But in a family business, you can fire somebody from the business, but you can't fire them as your brother or your nephew.
So Thanksgiving is still going to be Thanksgiving. Is that true? No, I think it's important. And I think clearly, I mean, there is now from a public capital approach, and we go back to what Nikki was asking me, like, well, it doesn't look like a success, right? And I think it's, do we want to be more actively and more in philanthropic work? Do we want to be, so that there could be conflict that are even from good things, right? Conflict is not good or bad.
Conflict is your conflict. That's my first thing, right? And what even there is, there is a, there is conflict on the definition of conflict. So there's really two points that are, and maybe from the good perspective, I have families that they want to do, they want to be involved in philanthropic work, or they want to be involved in good investment practices, and, you know, because of X or Y reasons, they don't want to invest in weapons, or they don't want to invest in tobacco, or they don't want to invest in alcohol.
And how do you have these conversations in order to kind of solve that? And what are we going to do? Very value aligned, right? What's our purpose as a family? And we really need to, I would encourage a lot of families to do value work and understand what are their values, and then align from the values, and where can we work, what can we do good together? Now, it's clearly very important, Dave, because at the end of the day, we still have to become, we go to the Christmas party and go to Thanksgiving. It's important to solve because we want to keep the family together. Now, most of us kind of solve conflicts in four different ways, and I think this is psychology.
That's why it's so important to bring a lot of psychological tools or human understanding tools to this practice, because I'm going to ask you guys a question, and I'll take the mic from the other side. Like, what are ways that you guys solve conflicts in the day-to-day? What would be your go-to? And there is four of them, and you can kind of go through this. With the way Nicola and I resolve conflicts between us? Well, Nicola is just always right.
I mean, there's no conflict. I disagree with whatever she said. No, I mean, I think both of us, the reason that our partnership works is because we both have different perspectives, and we both have different talents.
And for me, I understand that Nicola is extremely logical and extremely rational, and I am very not just strategic, but I am very impulsive. And the reason that I want to work with Nicola is to balance that out. And the fact that I understand that about myself forces me personally to pause and say, all right, well, let me call Nicola and see what she thinks about this.
And then if I can't get ahold of her, and it's critical, I think to myself, what would Nicola do? And I try to approach it from that perspective. When I had my own business, that perspective was missing. And so the reason that I personally wanted to work with Nicola was to add that balance, and I never forget about that.
So when we have a conflict, you know, I mean, it can be frustrating because we're approaching it from different angles. But I always remember that the reason it's so important to have these two different perspectives is so that we balance the decision-making. That doesn't mean that I agree.
It just means that it's important that this perspective is there. And because I wanted this perspective, I need to respect the fact that we got to consider this angle because I'm missing something. I could have a blind spot.
So that's, from my perspective, whenever there's something that we disagree with, I always kind of lean toward, I need to, I really need to make sure that if I don't agree with Nicola and we decide not to go in that direction, I better be right. Because the reason that I want her in this business is because I was missing that perspective. So I tend to bend over backwards because I know where my blind spot is and that's where I'm lucky.
No, you guys are lucky that you guys understand and realize this. And you kind of gave a little bit of the conflict resolution approach, but it is, there is a methodology to it. But it is technically in any business of less than two or three families depending on the definition, it's going to become a family business.
So this technically you guys are a family business because ultimately you all have your core families and there are different needs. You talked, you said it, Dave, we talked about the framing and we all come from different framing. Even me having been born in the same house and the same everything, my sister and I see the world completely different, which is also why it makes it very complicated to be in a business.
Because maybe she got, she didn't get any of the used bikes. I actually wasn't the one that got the used bikes from my cousins, but it generates issues. It generates certain dynamics, right? So we have the framing.
We all come from different cultural backgrounds, now I think clearly the way we saw our families solve conflict and you see it and you talked about it, there may be either we kind of fly, so we fold, we use force and we use the 50-50. Those are like the most common and then the one that you were talking about is like how do we kind of have a conversation, understand why, and there is a whole process about it. This is a methodology that I do actually do seminars on.
It's like how do you work the conversation? How do you empathize? Are you actually doing active listening? So how do I listen to Nicola or how do I listen to Dave and really not be waiting to see what I'm going to answer and react, but actually hear what he's saying and have good body communication. If I was like this here, kind of looking at my phone, well clearly I'm not here engaged and I have to show people that I want to be having a conversation and ask that if we can solve the problem. So there is a way that I do actually training for that.
It is important. So we fly, we fold, and they all have, it's not that there is any way, like clearly what you're talking about, there is ways to solve. So at some point I need to use force to resolve a conflict because it's just an emergency, right? I can't just go and police force.
Sometimes you need to go and use force. What are the pros and the cons? I mean, it is fast, right? If you use force and then clearly in a corporate world, I mean, the way of solving conflicts is how high are you? It's solved. Now, does it leave resentments? Yes.
It has winners and losers. Yes. If I fall, like if all the time I say, yes, you're okay, yes, so you're for sure, I often expect reciprocity, right? So I often expect, you know, I fall into this when this happens in relationships.
You know, I'm always going to the restaurant that you like and then now I want to have the burger. I want to invite my friend. Like there's something, I always expect something in return.
And people don't really understand and if this continues going on at the end of the day, well, somebody is going to get some emotional frustration and say, you know, I've been giving, like I've been letting you, whatever, fall asleep with the TV on for always and then I can't and this is something I know that it's a big thing between male and female. It's like, come on, today just kind of go watch outside or kind of don't do it. We need to figure it out.
You have the 50-50, which it's great. We've always thought since little, you know, sharing is caring and, you know, with cousins and like, you know, share with your brother, with your cousin, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's the way, I mean, usually the 50-50 is ingrained in us since we're very little.
But what's the problem with this? It is, you know, there's not really, not a winner, not a loser and sometimes it may be and I have the great example. At some point, those of us that cook and trying to make a meal with a significant other, which I don't have one right now. That's why I need a Nikola in my life to help me balance my practice and all the other stuff.
But, you know, how do you go about making dessert and then doing the salad dressing? And you have this lemon, you only have one left and the easy way is just to cut it in half, right? And then at the end of the dinner, you're sitting down having dinner and then none of them are happy and they're like, what's with the long face? Like, no, you know what? Like my dressing doesn't taste very well. I needed more juice and the same thing. My dessert, my lemon pie needed more zest, right? If we would have sat down and talked about it and said, you know, I need 100% of the juice, you need 100% of the zest.
We could have solved this issue without having a 50-50. It's like what you do with Nikola, you have conversations, you understand that she complements you and we work from some family's work or some person's result that comes as well from the understanding of the worst case scenario than their best case scenario on what can we do together? And there is a whole methodology and we can all just do something if you guys want or not. You know, your point about reciprocity is such a, that's a huge point because like I think of it in business, I'm not, I don't expect any reciprocity because we're trying to move the business forward.
But Nikola and I are volunteers in an organization and the person who's the leader, who's the paid employee of the organization, when I was asking for something, said something to me where she said, well, you know, I've given into you, I've given you these last three things and I said, she's like, so I expect this and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. There's only one person in this conversation who's making money off of us moving forward and that's you. So you think you're giving into me, I don't have a dog in this fight.
I don't care whether we do it this way or not. So, you know, because I have an idea that may be better than anything that you've come up with, that doesn't mean that because you're adopting my idea, I have to take your crappy idea for this other thing. Like I have no vested interest in this.
So for us and, you know, then I'll shut up and let Nikola give her perspective on this. We, she and I care about moving the business forward and it doesn't, I would prefer if all the ideas came from Nikola. I don't want to be the guy coming up with all the ideas all the time.
So, you know, for me, I, you know, what does reciprocity look like? Reciprocity looks like both of our bank accounts are full. That's what reciprocity looks like. Yeah, there's definitely a balance here.
You've just gotta, you've gotta work together collaboratively and you've got to make sure that you're listening to each other. Like that was the biggest thing for me. So going back to the question was, you know, we really had to learn to listen to each other because you do have different experiences.
You do have different viewpoints. And even if you're going to take a step back and say, you know what, you're right. Or even if we disagree and say, we're going forward with your idea, despite our disagreement, you truly have to be able to hear that person out and say, you know what? We've both expressed the view on this particular subject.
So we at least feel heard. And again, you have to make a decision and I'm with you, Dave. Like we always choose what's going to be best for this business.
And it's not about like who's thought was this, whose idea was this. It's about what's best for this business and what keeps moving it forward no matter what. You know, Oscar, I'll tell you that if you so I was in business with my wife.
I've been in business by myself. I don't I'm tired. I don't want to be the guy that comes up with all the ideas.
I want someone coming up with the ideas. I want someone on some of these issues to lead the charge, because there's if there's two of us focusing on issues that are going to make the business stronger, we get there twice as fast. And I had to it took me it took me 40 years to figure that out.
But now that I know it, I would never go back to the other way because I don't want to carry the load by myself. I mean, when I don't have to, that's just crazy to me. So, you know, understanding that moving the business forward requires letting other people in and making sure that other people have an equal say.
Um, I think that's a better way to move forward. And I can imagine if you're in a family business, if you're the patriarch, how long do you want to carry this load? You're 60 years old. You're 70 years old.
You want to keep carrying the load? Come on, let somebody else help you. It is and it's important, I think, going back to the families and family members that are listening to us and seeing and watching us. It is also like that process of transition, right? And I do say also to the next generation and to other stakeholders, like, we need to honor that.
We need to honor the fact that these people work and have this idea and these things. And how do you honor it? And how do you continue their legacy? Because I think a lot of this thing is about continuing the legacy. Now, how do we lead the future? Today, we need to, as business owners, and that's why I'm going to emphasize from the business, my role as a family member is to do the best thing for the business, right, even if I'm within the board of the business or the advisory board, I may be representing my family, but I do have fiduciary responsibility for the shareholders, which are my family, but I need to make the best decision for the business and understand.
Now, that's another thing. We talked about governance at some point is like we need to have business governance. We also need to have family governance, which is completely different.
And we and I would definitely recommend families not to go into if you're having a family issue, don't don't bring it to the business. And I know it's hard because we all intertwine. We all wear different hats.
And if you're going to have a business meeting, don't do it in the dining room table on Sunday, like you don't want to. Don't do it, you know, get an office, get a hotel, go to whatever it is, do something where if you're going to have a board meeting, do it somewhere else. Don't don't tie it to the family.
I also know what to say, you know, boundaries are like, you know, I think it's a valid point because we may have an issue like, you know, my I don't want to share any of it, but there's issues that happen within the family system. There is a lot of mental health issues that are going on nowadays and that affect the business. And now, I mean, they do affect the business, but they affect the family.
How do I support my family member as a family member to work their issues out? And how do we deal with it in the business? And how do we also kind of understand the risk, the dynamics? How are we going to manage it? But do use a safe, use different scenarios to talk about this or like divorces, right? That I'm getting divorced and they happen to me. And also that's why I have those lots of experiences. How do you deal with a divorce on their family business where you may be part of the ownership? Did you guys sign a prenup or not? And there's a lot of issues before that you need to understand that.
But they do bring emotional conflict because, I mean, I have my son who wants to be the successor of his grandfather and he's like, to me, good luck. But there is issues. And then also what it is that the other member, you know, that either the family and the non-family member want to do because they may feel that people come from wealth.
But the reality is that at some point, it's not really yours. It might be the trust. It might be something that you're, I mean, you were gifted and the expectation of getting something that is not even the owner, your spouse, and it generates a lot of tension.
So there's a lot of things that need to be dealt in different scenarios and with a lot of like tact and understanding of emotional effects. So, yeah. So Oscar, you've mentioned now a few times our experiences and how our own personal experiences really inform what we're doing in our line of work.
And I want to take this opportunity to make sure that we address some of your unique experiences on the personal side that have been really fun for you in life that make you, I think, so unique for an advisor. And we talked about this a little bit with Dave before we brought you onto the show. And I want our audience to hear this.
So among all the activities, I think you have a pilot's license. I know you've been heavily involved in scuba diving. Let's talk about the scuba diving.
Like you train people to actually scuba dive, which terrifies me personally. I would love to be able to do that, but it terrifies me. So tell me about how you got into that and what that looks like.
Oh, this is a long story, but yeah, it's shaped a lot of my life. And I think I've been lucky and I'm truly lucky and honored. And it took me a while because I've done a lot of issues to do self-work, which I think is the first thing I've done a lot of self-work.
To really kind of honor the things that I come from this family that I come to, and I was able to have these things which were hard and we had some difficult issues as we were growing up. And there was trauma, but it's like honoring, I think honoring father and mother and just the whole system just kind of accepted and being in the process. Now, for me, scuba diving, I wanted to be an astronaut.
When I was little, my nickname was NASA because I just talked about, you know, the moon and I ended up just being an astronaut with this family system, which are very interesting to navigate. And they told me, I remember when I went to the NASA camp, the astronaut told me, you need to be a pilot and you need to be a scuba diver. So I started learning and learning about scuba diving, which it was to me, one, therapeutical.
I'm involved with the Therapeutic Scuba Institute as a board member and we help do research for these causes. More on the near skeletal and different disabilities. But I think, to me, the interest is more in the neurodiverse world.
And there is a fact that when you go scuba diving, there is PTSD, there's a bunch of other research. I'm not a researcher, so I'm just the lab rat, but it is interesting to see. And to me, it's therapy.
Now, I do teach. I became an instructor, a professional diver 10 years ago. I started diving, and please, I know Patty's not here, but I started diving in Colombia, like without a license, like you kind of give you a tag, just like sometimes family business gets tossed into the work, and like, here's your tag, go, go, go scuba diving.
Dive in. Just make sure you don't come, as we're going down, like, yeah, always breathe. It's like, in some of the transitions, and I have a story about how my dad gave me EC, like that.
But when you go down, for me, it's worked as a, you know, you're able to meditate or to have your own space and you're able to have your help there. I do use, I do sometimes do leadership courses through scuba diving, which is interesting, like, out of all the things that I've been taught, I mean, I wrote an article some time ago, it's like, you know, learning how to rescue somebody, learning that the responsibility of somebody is in your hands, knowing that there is a lot of reasoning to understand. It makes you understand a lot of things about leadership and about risk and how to handle situations, because the first thing they tell you, and the one thing I still use from my scuba diving and the rescue class was, stop, think, stop, breathe, and think, right? It's like, okay, assess the situation before you kind of go through things, and that's super important from scuba diving.
That's like one of the biggest lessons. And if you look at the whole concept of scuba diving, which is self-regulated, you can technically do it. You don't have to have a license to do it, but please do, but you could, and it's the most responsible thing to do, to go and do it by yourself if you don't have no idea.
And if you actually are a diver, you dive every five years, and so often it's very dangerous because it's know your limitations, and know your limits, it's super important. And that's the way that I do it. So yeah, diving for me, it's amazing, I do it.
I still fly, not as much as I want to. Yeah, there's a lot of stories here, so I don't think we have much time, but I'll keep diving if you want. I've taught many people that are very, that are being afraid of diving, because it is my specialty.
I think when you understand, which I also use in my practice, and I actually learned it while I was going to my training as an instructor, people learn different ways. So if you're able to, one, give you the certainty that you're going to be okay, and I'm able to teach you in a way that is completely different, and you're able to feel comfortable, also like when we're in families in the room, so they feel comfortable and they feel they're safe, they'll be able to open, you'll be able to accomplish the goal. So it's a little bit of that same continuum to help families.
So I think diving has been a lot for me. I love it. I did have a little incident a couple of weeks ago, so I've been trying to recover from that, and also kind of changing my lifestyle because I don't want to be in an airplane 24-7 nowadays.
So I'm going to probably be more here locally based now from these things that happen. Sometimes we make business decisions as a family, because things happen to your own life, and I want to be closer to my own family, my own son, and I'm going to be probably staying here more than what I did before. That's wonderful.
So I have to pick up on this. Thank you for sharing the therapeutic aspect of scuba diving, because I think most people view it as a hobby, and that was what really stood out to me from our conversation, is the way that it's really kind of influenced some of the ways that you think and the way you implement what you do in family businesses as you're thinking about those principles that you've learned from being underwater and being able to meditate, stay calm, use the techniques to be able to clear your mind, take a breath, and use reasoning, really. So I really appreciate hearing that.
It's wonderful what you're doing, and it's great that you are thinking about let me take a step back from all the travel and take a different direction in life. I think a lot of us get to that point where we say this is too much and we need to make adjustments, and you've had quite a career doing this work all over the globe. So it's okay to take a step back, take some of your talents here in the United States, and we're going to make sure the audience hears that, that Oscar's available for work here in the United States.
He wants to do more business here and has a global perspective doing this in all different types of cultures and countries. No, the therapeutic, sorry to interrupt you, but I think the therapeutical factor is super important. I think often we're not seeing the individual, and whether it's scuba diving, meditation, cycling, yoga, whatever it is, right? I think we need to connect with each other and be able to leave the present.
Within family business, this is also like how do I not, if I really want to be a singer or a dancer, that doesn't mean you're not part of the family. That doesn't mean you're not part of the business. I mean, I've seen good evolutions where transition and succession, and succession from the management point of view, doesn't mean there is some founder that just has to be a family member or else they just can't continue, but they will not continue on the business.
I think if you're able to educate and use this holistic approach to understand the individual from their perspective and I guess what they really want to do and they find themselves happy, they'll be able to be a better supporter of the system because of where their work is supposed to be. So nowadays people ask me, oh, isn't it hard for you not to be the CEO of your family business? No, it's not. I'm helping families all over the world that impact the world in amazing ways.
I'm happy that I'm actually having the best relationship with my father that I've ever had, as long as I wouldn't talk about the business. And things within our family business have slowly evolved to where it's funny because he actually shared an article with me the other day and I was like, wow, this is amazing that he was telling me, you know, most family businesses, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like, great, thank you, Dad, before I would have killed him. But it's every family business has their own speed.
We all, as individual members, have their own view and be aligned with what you want to do with the why. Simon Sinek talks about the why and think the why and everything and what we do as a family business as we do as individuals, get connected. What's your purpose? And I think it's super important and that's why I actually wanted to kind of have a different approach to my own practice where I use technology.
I use holistic approach from other things that may be seen kind of non-conventional and regular consultation. You know, I've been able to be a CEO for a family business. I work for a family business.
I sell family business. I help as well. So I've had this experience that I can give to advisors and to families to help them try in long generations.
All right. Well, Oscar Paez, thank you so much for joining us today. How can people get a hold of you if they want to connect with you? What's the best way for people to reach out to you? So I'm old school, so I think phone works the best for me and or text message or WhatsApp because I'm always on the go.
But it is 786-301-0303. Also email works. I can share with you guys and if you guys don't know how to do it, you post it, but you can probably put it out there.
But I'm out there. You can Google me. I think you can find me.
I'm not, I'm public. But definitely phone number, email. It is really about, it's not about the business.
This is about like building relationships in the long term and trying to understand if you're ready because the system, the family as itself may not be ready. Maybe just one. So you can start with having a coach and I can guide the coach to start.
And it's all about finding momentum and seeing the right place for the family and the family members to engage. So it's like also another, like the Flying Chancleta, sin compromiso, without any tighter commitment. Really, we can talk and I'm here to help anybody, advisors, families, having conversations.
So Oscar is the person who brought the Flying Chancleta to the Inside BS show. Oscar, thank you so much for that and for the gift of the Flying Chancleta that people are going to take away from our time together today. It was a true pleasure having you here.
For those of you who want to get in touch with Oscar, we're going to put all of his information down in the show notes. You can reach out to him and ask him how to duck and avoid the Flying Chancleta or ask him any questions you have about a family business, about family business transition, about how to manage the family business dynamic, about real estate in a family business, about wealth management. He is a resource for you on a whole host of topics.
Thank you so much for spending this time with us. It was great having you with us. We are here every single day on the Inside BS show.
Join me back here again tomorrow at 6 a.m. for another edition of our show. Until then, my name is Dave Lorenzo. I'm the Godfather of Growth and she is... Becky G. We'll see you back here again tomorrow, folks.
Thanks very much for joining us.