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John Hudson talks about building Shadow Theatre back as the pandemic restrictions are easing. He shares life lessons learned from the theatre.
Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!
And it's another episode of Essential Dynamics starring Reed McColm, featuring Reed McColm. I'm your host, Reed McColm, and, I'm here with the Essential Dynamics creator and thought provider, mister Derek Hudson. Are you there, Derek?
Derek:Hi, Reed. I'm here. Just one of me, not like there's three of you, but I'm here excited excited about our guest and the topic.
Reed:Yes. I'm I'm having a good time today. I really appreciate your including me on this. My, our guest today is my good friend and, Derek's, first cousin, John Hudson, who is the artistic director of the Shadow Theatre Group, which is here in Edmonton. It works out of the Varscona Theater in the Strathcona area, just, just ahead of around White Avenue, just 80 Third Avenue, I think, we're on.
Reed:And, John, are you there? You're welcome.
John:I am. Check. Check. Check. Check.
Reed:Good. Good.
John:I'm
Reed:glad. Derek, what would you we we've been talking to John earlier
John:on
Reed:an in a previous podcast and got his history and everything, but, I I think we wanna know more about, how theater is going to survive, and John's got some thoughts on that.
Derek:Yeah. Let me let me set it up a little bit, Reid, so that we can, be true to our purpose of sharing the principles of essential dynamics. So in essential dynamics, we do talk about the quest, which I think is super cool talking to theater people. And, and the fact that we have to do that in the face of opposing forces. And one of the things that we face on the path or this journey is opposing forces that things that are, propelling us forward and things that are holding us back.
Derek:I call those drivers and constraints. And then the other thing that's interesting is it's the people who take the journey. And, the interesting, conflict that I see with people is the difference between an individual kind of being true to themself and an individual belonging to or conforming to a group. And the flip side of that is what the group needs from an individual, say in a company, and, and what the people need. And so all of that, I think, is a play when we talk about, let's just talk very specifically about shadow theater.
Derek:What are your plans for getting people back in the seats, putting the productions on the stage? And what's driving you forward, and what's holding you back? Like, go.
John:Yeah. Those those are great questions. Oh, boy. That's a good topic. Well, right now so, you know, we talked to the first episode, Derek, about, just about treating our customers right and building those kind of relationships that we're going to be, long lasting.
John:And we've had subscribers you know, I I I mentioned that when we first started off, we had 30 subscribers. Well, I bet 10 of them are still with us. Right? So Wow. And, yeah.
John:So we've got, got people who've been with us for a long, long time. When we had to shut down so we we were in the middle of the season. We had just opened a show, and, and, you know, the whole world shut down. We still had a lot of customers who, had purchased tickets for the show that we had shut down and then the one that was gonna come after, which was,
Reed:Which was brilliant. It was a brilliant show.
John:Actually reads funny. So, and so what we did, we reached out to everybody. We just say, well, what would you like to do? We can offer you a refund. We can give you a tax receipt for the value of those tickets, or we can defer them.
John:And you'd be amazed at how many people just deferred their tickets to when we started producing again. So we have a lot of people who so we just we bank that money and set it aside. And, and so we're now, kind of activating again and letting all those people know, hey, this is, we're back up and and going again in January. And, you know, all those tickets are are valid. We wanna see you.
John:And and then as I said in the other episode, we had, you know, people who who just said, oh, well, I have those two, but I'm gonna buy another set of subscriptions, and then, you know, you give me a couple more cons from that. So we've been really just trying to be as flexible as we can with that because we we really just want people to get comfortable coming back again. We have put put out a a COVID protocols for our audience. They have to be double vaxxed or they have to show proof of a negative test within the last seventy two hours. Everyone will be masked in the theater, and, we'll wait down all surfaces and everything between shows, and we're only going to operate at 60% capacity for this first year.
Derek:So That's the that's the tricky part as, you know Yeah.
John:That's the tricky part.
Derek:My accountant's, mind looks at that and says that that 60% in is 40%, lost potential.
John:Yep. Now there's a
Derek:You're prepared to operate it that way. Yeah?
John:Well, we are. We are. And, you know, we were very frugal through the, pandemic, and we came out the other side with a fair amount, in the black. So we banked all that money knowing that we'd be in this situation, pandemic. And and frankly, we're hopeful that the, the federal government has been, talking about offering a a house subsidy so they would, top up the other 40% if
Derek:At what
John:point hopeful that that will go through.
Derek:Hey. That's a that sounds like a great idea because if the alternative was to have 40%, of those, like, those seats filled with politicians, you'd rather just take the money. Right?
John:Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we'll see if that comes to pass, but we know that the arts is, is a big part of their initial planning. So we'll we're hopeful that that will will happen and that they'll move forward with that. So
Reed:Now I just I wanna jump in here, and I wanna point out that, you know, Broadway is back, but it's, not nearly at capacity either in, number of houses showing a a play or a or musical and attendance, and it's a risk on New York's part that they would have the tourism to support, to support Broadway in its previous capacities, and it was doing so well before COVID.
John:It was Number one tourist attraction in America.
Reed:Yeah. Absolutely. It was doing so well. And yet, now it's it is somewhat threatened because, shows have to learn how to deal and how to survive on houses on on 70% houses. Now they're not they're not restricting the houses at all, but it but it a 70% house now in Broadway parlance is considered a win.
Reed:They they think they can make a profit on that. Now, subscription sales across the country in US and Canada, seem to be down. How do we bring them back up to pre COVID levels?
John:I think we have to, just get people back in the theater to see that that it's safe, that they will feel safe coming in. And
Reed:Sitting shoulder to shoulder.
John:Well and that's the 60% capacity thing initially. Right? Is that our theater is big enough that you can spread out and, you don't have to sit shoulder to shoulder. You can have a little room. And, I think I think people initially find that comforting, and then we can move, you know, this is just what Shadow's leading to.
John:So We should explain. Is going
Derek:Right.
John:The Citadel's going to a % capacity with Christmas Carol is to
Reed:Oh, is it?
John:So yeah.
Reed:Oh, it is. Okay. I didn't know that.
John:They're just going right ahead. But what we did, we made a commitment to our subscribers because the the thing about theater goers there too is it's generally a plus 40 crowd. Right? So they, you know, they we just wanna be solid with them and say, this is what we're doing. We're gonna stick with that for the full season.
John:So you can be confident that this is what we're doing. We're not gonna change the rules on you halfway through or anything. We're gonna say, here's our rules until the end of the 2022 season, and then we'll reassess and we'll go we'll go forward together and we'll get your feedback and see how everybody felt. So
Reed:we should explain for our listeners who may not be in in, local for, that here in Edmonton, Shadow Theatre is is in the Strathcona area. Citadel is downtown. The Citadel is Yeah. Has been experienced for some time, and it has two seven hundred around 700 seats theater and then one cabaret space with very variable seating, which I think averages around a 40, hundred and 60. Yeah.
Reed:And then, the Varscona, the new Varscona holds about 200 ish.
John:Yeah. Two two zero four.
Reed:Yeah. And, it would be it would be, at 60% capacity, then we're only letting in what? 20. Yeah. Okay.
Derek:Hey, John. I just love this customer focus.
John:Yeah.
Derek:And we're talking about it from your business point of view, which I totally get. I wanna flip it around for a second. What do you have to offer people as they emerge from their cocoons? Like, what's the experience? And I'm maybe I'm thinking more about the story and the and the, and the productions that you put on, but is there a is there a experience that people need, Or is there something that's gonna change in the market because, you know, people need something?
John:Well, you know what? That's a great question, Derek. We're, we're a theater. My mandate is to do theater that hits your heart and opens your mind. That's what it's always been, and we're not gonna stray from that because that's what people that's why people come to us.
John:They're coming to see, stories that are gonna be enlightening and engaging, and those could be comedies, dramas, musicals, whatever. But, I wanna do plays that say something that matter. And, I think there's a craving for that right now. I think people are looking for something that is substantial that speaks to them in in some way about our our shared journey here on this planet.
Derek:So Awesome.
John:Yeah.
Derek:Well well, I I I think we're on the same quest then. Yeah. But theater is a more established way of, of presenting it. So let me ask, another question, and that is, does it matter to have that experience with other people?
John:Yeah. I think it does. It it is a shared communal experience, the theater. And one thing you may not know, but it's quite an interesting thing, As the production starts, as the show the lights go down and the house comes up, the audience's heartbeat start to synchronize. So all of the heartbeats start to happen at the same time.
John:So it's that tells us that we need to be there together, that that we're there, sharing this moment, which is unique to all of us at this this very time. It just doesn't quite have the same, sparkles to it.
Derek:Well, and we've done a lot of watching in our basements for the last
John:year and
Derek:a half. Yeah. It's getting old.
John:Yeah. And there's nothing like life. Like, it's a it's a communal experience both for the actors and the audience. Right? The the, the audience informs so much about what's happening in the performance on any given night.
John:Right? It's a it's a real give and take, and that's that's what's so exciting. It really is. So
Reed:yeah. I really admire, John, you said in the previous podcast that you had, a personal goal of you're only allowed one failure every five years. Is that what am I quoting you correctly on that?
John:Yeah. That's right.
Reed:One every five years. My goodness. When I was an artistic director, I I remember once being at the border, The US Canada border, and being asked if I had ever produced a bomb. And I thought, well, I thought he was gonna talk about theater, and I said, of course, I have. But, to get one in five years, I would have, I really admire that.
Reed:And I have to say, in the years that I have seen you produce, that's that's pretty good. That's that's, you're pretty you're you're on track, for what you want to do. But there is a difference between trying to entertain 200 thoughtful people and, even 700 for the Citadel. Your your your theatrical, vision has to be different for the numb number of people in the audience and what they want.
John:Oh, yeah. And they they have a more they need to be more commercial than I do. You know? Oh, yeah. It's just as simple as that.
John:I I can take more risks with my programming than they can. And I'm really lucky, and my audience is is really game for that. Right? They're they're interested in that, and they wanna come down that path with us. So yeah.
Derek:So so John, I have another question. One of the things I've learned as I've explored the the concepts associated with essential dynamics is, it's not just that opposition is there to be overcome, it's that we do better. We come out of it stronger. And we can't grow without, you know, some resistance. So, what good is going to come out of the challenges of the past year and a half, either for yourself or the theater or the community?
John:Yeah. That's a great question, Derek. And I think we've I think, really, that's happened through what's happened in our society over this last eighteen months. Right? We've had, black lives matter happen.
John:There's more understanding of a need for inclusion and diversity, and we're taking that to heart in the theater. And we're looking for plays that kind of we where we can incorporate more of that and be a more inclusive and welcoming space. So, you know, when those challenges presented themselves, we thought we we have to meet them in, kind of an open hearted way. Yeah.
Derek:And so we'll see that in,
John:Right away.
Derek:Right away? In both the productions and the players Yes. And the audience and everything?
John:Yeah. Our first show is called The Mountain Top. It's a very well known American play. It's played all over the world, but it's about, Martin Luther King Junior's Last Night on Earth in the Memphis Hotel room. And, two terrific, actors of color, gonna be on our stage to bring that off, and we're really excited about it.
John:Yeah.
Derek:And that's in January?
John:That's in January. Yeah. Get a little plug in there. Oh, oh,
Derek:for sure.
John:Yeah. Tickets on our website.
Reed:Boy, I hope we have other plays there too. I I'm looking forward to the mountain top, but are there any Reid McCollum plays? He's great.
John:We'll see a Reid McCollum play in, October of twenty twenty two.
Reed:Get your tickets now.
Derek:Yeah. Let's let's, let's just put that one out there. What's the title, Reid?
Reed:The wrong people have money.
Derek:And, isn't that an interesting topic?
John:Yeah. It's it's a really delightful play. Reid and I've been working on how many years now, Reid? It's been a long time.
Reed:It's been it's been a hundred and five on
John:my part. About a hundred and five years. So it's supposed to go up during the pandemic. But, you know, the nice thing was that, okay, we've got the pandemic. We can't do it.
John:So we took a little more time to work to do some more work on them. I think that's been really useful. I agree.
Reed:Oh, I'm I'm very happy with it now.
Derek:So so I I watched the reading Oh, did you? Oh, great. That you guys that's when we first met John. It's just Yeah. Right.
Derek:Yelling on TV. Yeah. So, what's gonna be different with a live production? Like, how much better will it be than what I experienced?
John:Oh, do you wanna answer that, Reid?
Reed:Yeah. I think you'll be more connected. I think you'll be you'll find yourself more involved in the story, and, and there will be a slightly different ending. But, that's that's because I somebody's asked me to to include a ballet of water buffalo. So, you know, it's just part of it comes organically from the plot.
Derek:It's one of these one of these improv games that you guys play.
John:That's right.
Derek:Yeah. Okay. No.
John:We we have actually I I think it'll just I think it's gonna be more engaging. You know? Like, it's a Zoom reading like that is fun, and it gives the audience a little kind of sneak peek, but it's not the same thing as seeing a full blown production. So yeah.
Derek:Oh, well, I think, I think, John, you're on a mission. Really appreciate, really appreciate it. So I think and we just have a few minutes left, but what I'd like to do is maybe get your advice, people path and purpose, drivers and constraints, you know, opposition, conflict, personal growth. What have you learned in all that, in all that That's a lot. Mm-mm.
Derek:What advice does the player and the director in you have for people when they're trying to apply that thing, which, you know, you can script and play out on a stage, what advice do you have for people in their own lives dealing with these, these very few factors, really, that kind of pattern our lives?
John:Well, you know, I think the the number one thing is, be true to yourself. Right? Understand who you are and what you have to offer and be passionate about that. And don't listen to the naysayers. There's always gonna be people who tell you you can't do that.
John:You can't do that. It's just like, yeah. I I can do that. You know? I I said early on, you have to be stubborn.
John:You really do. You have to be stubborn. You have to keep going. And even when things don't go your way, you have to just say, okay. What can we learn from that?
John:How can we move forward and keep going and get better? You know? Because, this is the one thing that I I kinda have little matches in my own life. What did I learn today? Just something.
John:Could be anything. How did I extend my knowledge? Did I meet the the day with positivity and an open heart? And, you're not always successful with that, but you try to do that. Was I honest in all my dealings?
John:Because I think that's a fundamental thing. You have to be honest with everybody. And, did we do our best? Right?
Derek:Wow. So Yeah. John, you you mentioned, I think, last time that mentors were a big part of your journey. I can only imagine how many people would automatically go to the name John Hudson as their mentor, and maybe some of which you don't even know about. Is that right, Reid?
John:Would that be fair
Derek:to say?
Reed:I am a better writer and a better actor for knowing Tron, and I was really good before I met him. So, so that's
Derek:Oh, that's awesome.
John:Very kind of you to say, Rhys. Well, and I'll tell you something actually that we're doing, which is really fun. We actually have, started a artistic director mentorship program here at the theater, and we're training over the next few years. We've been training three young women, in the art of leadership in the arts home. So
Derek:Fantastic.
John:Yeah. Yeah.
Reed:Well, I wish we had scads of time because I so enjoy you, John. Thank you very much for joining us today and, making essential dynamics real in a very in a very practical way. I, I'm grateful to both you and Derek, to all my Hudsons, to, to teach me and, and guide and be my mentors. John, if somebody needs to get hold of you or wants to talk more about theater and the business thereof, where would they go?
John:Yeah. They can email me at, director@shadowtheater.org. That's the best way to get a hold.
Reed:Okay. And theater is r e. Right?
John:That's just the way you're supposed to spell it.
Reed:Derek, if people want to get a hold of you about Essential Dynamics, where do they go?
Derek:Derek hudson dot c a, and that Derek is with one r, and that's how you're supposed to spell it. Even though that's not how my parents spelled it on my birth certificate.
John:Oh, really? That's hilarious.
Derek:We fixed that up later when I taught them how to spell my name. Oh, good. Those are pretty cheeky six year old. But that's a story for another time.
Reed:Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Well, for Brynn Griffiths in the studio, Derek Hudson is my guru here and and also my mentor and teacher, here in Essential Dynamics. John Hudson was our special guest.
Reed:I'm Reid Bacolome your very handsome host and until next time please consider your quest.