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The podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world.
If you’re a founder, executive, or high-ranking leader, you already know this truth: the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Lonely at the Top is a sanctuary in the storm—a space where the emotional cost of leadership is named, and where relief, clarity, and grounded support are always on the table.
Hosted by Soul Medic and former psychotherapist Rachel Alexandria, this podcast dives into the unspoken realities of high-level decision-making: the pressure, the isolation, the doubt, and the fatigue. Each episode offers insight, emotional tools, and conversations with seasoned leaders who’ve learned to navigate the weight of responsibility without losing themselves.
I always had a lot of intuition. Honestly, I think some of my strength in my career came from the fact that I would have an intuitive knowing, but then I needed data and facts to back it up,
send me on a journey to learn how to do something or to go find the data that maybe other people weren't looking for. But my intuition was telling me was important.
Welcome everyone to The Lonely At the Top podcast. A podcast for high level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world. Because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to. Here we welcome founders, executives, and decision makers who feel the isolation and the pressure that comes with power.
Lonely at the top is your sanctuary in the storm. And I'm your host, Soul Medic and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria.
Today we have with us Sunni VonMutius. She's an intuitive strategist and a fractional COO. She applies her 20 plus years of business experience, along with lessons from her rich, adventurous life as a catalyst for clarity, ease, and momentum in life and business. She began her career working in enterprise technology. For the past decade
she's been applying her unique style of metaphysical project management in all manner of less traditional environments. Sunni, I'm so excited to chat with you. I know you have such a rich history and varied experience, and I think we're gonna be all really curious about metaphysical project management.
So let's get into it.
Let's do it.
So we know each other because we are part of a very interesting club. I guess I shouldn't be surprised about metaphysical project management 'cause we are part of a club known as Witches and Weirdos. Everyone listening to this podcast is hearing such interesting insights into the varieties of my life.
Witches and Weirdos is a, a group of business owners who sit on the Woo side. I think we take a walk on the woo side of life. And we've known each other just a little bit from that over the last year, I think.
I think so. It's been about a year. Yeah. Yeah.
So have you always been a highly woo-ish person, a highly intuitive, metaphysical kind of person?
I don't know that I have consciously. Um, was definitely a chapter in my life and my career where that was not awareness. It wasn't something that I necessarily talked about or pulled from, but now using hindsight, absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
I always had a lot of intuition. Honestly, I think some of my strength in my career came from the fact that I would have an intuitive knowing, but then I needed data and facts to back it up,
Mm-hmm.
send me on a journey to learn how to do something or to go find the data that maybe other people weren't looking for. But my intuition was telling me was important.
And so
Mm. 📍
in the moment, did I sound like I was spiritual and metaphysical and woo? No. But looking back, yes, it was definitely part of my secret sauce.
Well, so tell us a little bit, 'cause we don't cover it in your bio a little bit for the audience about your corporate background, so that they understand where you were bringing that to.
Yeah, I absolutely fell into a corporate career. I changed my major a lot during the time I was getting my two year degree, um, because I, I was always kind of curious about the world. And the very short version is I, I was recruited as a, temporary employee by an insurance company that had five women with maternity leave all in one year.
And so I got to be
Oof.
in every single department. They just hired me as a full-time employee 'cause they knew they had so much leave. And at the end of that year, the IT department was like, we see you, you're curious in finding technology solutions for lots of problems that people aren't thinking about. You should come work for us. flash forward, you know, 15 years later I was doing high level strategy for very large companies at, very high tiers of leadership, doing project management, coordination strategy. I just kinda stumbled my way, faith it till you make it style through a technology career
Mm.
Yeah.
Wow. And a technology career is definitely not one where people associate intuition.
No, no, not at all. And we're talking this, this started in the late nineties, right? So I was coming up in, in tech in a time where there was definitely a generation of, female presenting people in the industry, but they were very small and had to work very hard. So I was really like just on the tails of those bootstraps.
It was still very early, in that time where even having feelings, right, I was taught as a woman, not to say I feel this way in a meeting because it would be too, right? So yeah,
Yeah.
a lot of intuition in tech, especially in the nineties and early 2000s.
Wow. I have a, I have a client who was a, a technology and, a bit older than both of us, I believe. I think she's, maybe 10 years older and I've heard a lot from her about how hard it was to be a woman in tech, be an engineer, and get any kind of,
respect, basically.
It was, it was a wild time. I, I can think of multiple examples where I could see men take credit for really clear ideas coming from women or lots of work that had been done by
Oh.
And then you get in the meeting and suddenly there's, a man sometimes not even in leadership, but a peer just being assumed
Hmm.
to have and not correcting.
And so looking back, I can see, I'm grateful though 'cause I can see how far we've come.
Mm.
quite different now, and there is still a long way to go, and I feel fortunate to have witnessed that sort of evolutionary trajectory to be able
Yeah.
for the fact that we have indeed come a long way.
Yeah, agreed. I mean, I, I didn't come up through corporate at all, so I, I've just been, running my own business for so long that, I look back and I'm like, yeah, I don't know a lot about what that aura of suppression or, being held down to the class, the glass ceiling.
Like that's just not been my experience mostly. 'cause I haven't been in that environment. But I remember being a young woman in the nineties feeling like, oh, women are so much more equal and we're so much liberated and things are so good. And then I get into my forties and I'm like. Wow. We've come so much farther than when we started.
Now it's kind of like back in the old day, you know, women didn't even,
Absolutely.
it's crazy. That's amazing. Well, it's something we haven't talked about much on the podcast yet. I can't believe we haven't, because most of my guests have been female presenting, but we haven't talked a ton about the additional component of loneliness of being a female presenting person in leadership at the top.
So leadership already isolating, and then you add this extra element of you can't be as much of the self that you're used to being. In in ways that would be totally normal anywhere else because it's going to quote, read the wrong way in a mostly male dominated field.
Yeah.
was that for you?
Honestly, I, I, fairly. Fairly Shamelessly weaponized my femininity
Ooh, tell us about it. I wanna hear about that.
for a good chunk of the middle of my career. I was a consultant with an IT service provider. and so my job was to go into potential client locations
Mm-hmm.
" Free" air quotes, free resource, right, and embed myself. Get them to forget that I was not an employee, so I could listen in and hear all of the ways that we could serve their company, their department, and then feed it to sales so they could come in with a pitch that was actually on point. So I
Wow.
doing discovery and recon. Most of the time that was really transparent. there were times where we got a little creative and so I would show up to a meeting. I remember one in particular. It was a two, IT departments were smaller brands and they had been bought by a larger brand. And the larger brand was who orchestrated this. So they sent me in to facilitate a merging of these two smaller IT departments. And, I showed up early and. I made friends with the female secretary, asked if I could help get the coffee, anything I can do to set up the space, you know, just kind of settle in and all of these male presenting humans arrive and they sit down and they start chitchatting. They ask me for coffee. They assume I'm there to take notes and I don't say a word. they chitchat and they talk, and I hear all the dynamics at play. All the power grabs, right? 45 minutes goes by, they get real frustrated. They call their boss. Where's the consultant? The consultant goes, Hey Sunni, are you in the room? Like, yes sir, I am right here.
That's amazing.
And I stand up and the notes that I've been taking and the presentation I had ready to go, that I just filled in a few details, I immediately present and they go from seeing me as, a cute young thing that they're giving eyes at to, you know, I whip my intelligence out and slap it on the table.
And that shock effect had them not have a whole lot of time to objectify me and have objections because it all happened in a way that took them by surprise. And I earned trust
amazing.
real fast because I was able to slip in there real fast. And so, I had no problem with the fact I looked like a walking Barbie at that point in my life.
I had no problem working with their assumptions and using it to my advantage because in that climate it felt foolish not to. It, it worked. I succeeded. I was able to broker a lot of really good mediations and deals and, the part that felt good for me is that I knew that the sales guys were coming in with an actual helpful pitch
Mm.
skeezy up sales.
Like I felt
Right.
be the person going, no, really, like, I really think this is gonna benefit you. And that felt good. That part felt really good.
That's amazing. That's, I love that story. Like I feel like that's, if you had it on video, that would be such a viral video of like, oh yeah, I'm totally here. Let's go.
Right here, right here, boss. It makes it even better that the, it was in rural manufacturing. You know, Midwest country and the office was straight outta the seventies. We're talking fake wood paneling, still smelled like the cigarette smoke from the seventies, like corduroy seats. And so
wow.
even just the antiquated surroundings.
And then you know, me, this little Barbie looking bit of a thing stands up and has this big presentation. It was just the juxtaposition tickled me.
Oh, that's amazing. You must have been so amused with yourself, you must have gone and told that story
it. It was years before I realized the feat it was, 'cause I didn't have any female mentors that I could call and tell it
Oh, oh.
wasn't really anyone I could celebrate with the secretary
Hmm.
out. slipped me some dark chocolate and a wink, you know? But that was about all there was, there wasn't a big, celebration.
In fact, I remember going for drinks a couple days later with the sales crew
Mm-hmm.
who took credit for what a good idea it was to send me in there and that I had the right disposition and that they had this great strategy. It wasn't, look at what Sunni was able to do. It was, look at us for having this idea right. Yeah, it was years before I looked back and was like, man, that was, that was kind of badass. Like, look at me
That was, yes. That's amazing. That's awesome. I love that story. Thank you for sharing that. Uh, and it, it, yeah, it gives a lot of really cool insight into your character and the way that you are able to take so many pieces of what's expected and and who you are and use it to your advantage. And yeah, I hear the loneliness.
Like that you were alone in your gender identity and in that career and in lacking the leadership that would really understand what that was like.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah, it was, it
Did that.
time.
Is that part of what informs what you do now?
I'm sure. I'm sure. Not like in a conscious journey like I felt this, now I wanna solve this problem. But I'm sure, I mean, it can't not inform. I do a lot of community building. I do a lot of culture and human first approach,
Mm-hmm.
And absolutely having experienced what it's like to not have that. I have a unique perspective and passion around it. I also was often the youngest person in the room by a couple of decades.
Mm-hmm.
so being willing to sort of and bust up some antiquated notions around business and how business has to be and capitalism versus commerce, those are all conversations that I, I can see had their roots and seeds planted, in the early stages of my career.
mm Can you say a bit more about that? I'm curious about those conversa, those are conversations you have now, capitalism and commerce.
Mm-hmm.
Tell us a bit more about that. That is part of what you do as an intuitive strategist and a fractional COO.
Yeah. Yeah. So technically I retired about 10 years ago. So a big part of, of what's important to know about me, there's two things. One, I, I have that freedom and that privilege.
Mm-hmm.
get to say yes to things when I'm a whole body yes. I
Mm-hmm.
the pressure of paying the bills, which is very different for some
Mm-hmm.
important note.
Mm-hmm.
and the other piece is that I don't take that privilege lightly. And so a lot of what is underneath most of my work is a desire to redistribute the wealth that I know I earned in part because of hard work and in part because of privilege. So I wanna be a part of redistributing that. So yeah, I get, I get to play with people where it's a whole body yes. And the people I like to play with are the ones who absolutely, it's a business and absolutely we need to make money. And the point of making money is so they can have a comfortable life. The point of the business is to make an impact, whether that's through creating a culture where their employees get to have a really great work-life balance, which is a myth in and of itself, whether the product or services that they are offering or making the world a better place, right?
Whether they're making a bunch of money so that they can then use it for philanthropic efforts. But I don't anymore play with organizations where the goal of the organization is to make as much money as possible. That's capitalism. I'm more interested in commerce, where we
Mm.
services, we're exchanging energy, and the goal is not necessarily that the owner of the company or that company wants to be on top, rather that that company wants to succeed at fulfilling on their mission. And there is a distinct difference there. And most of the companies I worked for in my corporate career were not that
Mm-hmm.
made a lot of mostly men. Very wealthy,
Mm-hmm.
I contributed to their success to big deals being brokered for a few people to become very wealthy, and I don't want to play
Mm-hmm.
game anymore personally.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Good for you. It sounds like, uh, burning Karma in a way. I mean obviously everybody needs to make a living, right? That's just how our society is structured. And yeah, I love that redistributing wealth. And you get to actually make the people successful whose missions align with yours.
Mm-hmm.
That's so cool.
Yeah. I've got, I mean, money is a wonderful measurement of energy. I've got nothing against making some money.
Yeah.
It's when that is the only goal I have personally chosen to opt out of that, that
I mean, agreed. Because it becomes a sickness. Money just for money's sake becomes it, it just begets illness, which is a concept I think I first learned about in, Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore's movie all the way back in the, in the day. I know, right? No one never mentions that movie anymore.
I know, I think it was that I watched some impactful movies back in the early 2000s. Uh, but I remember just seeing this concept of money for money's sake is kind of a cancer, you know, if there's no other mission behind it. It just becomes an unfulfillable and insatiable need, a hungry ghost.
So, yeah, I think that's really admirable that, you've gotten yourself into a place where you can make sure that the people that you are helping be successful are the ones who are contributing to society and, and think about things. I love that definition too. 'cause I'm like, if it's not capitalism, what do we call this?
This system of exchange. Commerce. Commerce instead of capitalism. I love that. Thank you for that.
Yeah. Yeah.
So you have all this wide experience. We've talked a little bit about the loneliness. You experienced, being female, presenting and being in the particular industry. Um. What is a season or decision you had to make as a leader that really tested you?
What's a, a story that you can tell us?
Man. There's a, there's a few things that come to mind. I'm sure there's way more interesting ones, but the one that's coming to mind first, so it's the one I'm gonna go with. I was working, and this one I can even say the. The company name I was working for, what at the time, was Jim Beam Brands. Now they've been bought and they're part of a lo larger conglomeration, but at the time they were still a,
Hmm.
independent brand. and my office was in a bottling plant in Cincinnati and I was providing IT support and leadership for the whole Northeast region, which sounds very impressive, but it was just a handful of bottling plants and, um. I really liked the job. It was really fun. It was really fulfilling. It was very easy, it was very low stress for me, and they didn't need me.
Mm-hmm.
need me. After a year there, I had really fulfilled on all of the things in the job description. I had created some sustainable SOPs. I had trained people in each of the plants on how to do the basic maintenance stuff in case I couldn't get there for a storm or a blizzard, which meant they could do it any time if they needed to, and then they could expand their job role, get a bit of a raise. And when I looked at the landscape strategically, I was like, I could milk this roll for a while. it's
Mm-hmm.
actually what's best for the company or all of the people involved.
Mm.
I went to my supervisor at the time and was like, I think you could get an intern to do this and give all of these people a piece of my salary and not have a role in this office anymore.
I think that would actually be
Wow.
And um, it was a hard decision because it's like, okay, well what am I gonna do next? Right.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I was young and a little bit, a little bit arrogant, right? Like, I'll find something.
I'll be great.
yeah. Yeah. And I'm grateful that I, I, I did and I'm grateful that I did.
' cause only it was, this was just before the recession in 2008. So the timing could, if I'd waited a few more months, I
Wow.
really put myself in a pickle. Um. But I, I miss the people there. It was kind of a good old boy vibe and good old gal vibe. And most of the people had been there since their career started.
And, you know,
Hmm.
each other intimately and they were very welcoming to me. And it was just a very wholesome, fun job.
Um, and the next couple of jobs I had after that were really stretched, like really stretched me. I went into
Hmm.
traveling consultancy and whatnot. But it was what was right. As a leader, sometimes the best thing and the kind thing to do, uh, is to leave or to let someone go or to end a project. Sometimes, you know, making the call to stop the momentum is actually the best call. Um, and I
But it results in disconnection from relationships.
Yeah. And, you know, potential, trajectory or wealth for some people,
Mm-hmm.
a pivot that has to happen. in this case it was mostly me and I was making a
Hmm.
but there have been other times that felt very similar. You know, where I made a call that other people, , result was other people had disconnection.
They thought they on a path and then I made a decision that changed their path. And it was the kind thing to do. It was the right thing to do for everybody, you know? that, I remember that being one of my earlier lessons in that concept.
Yeah, it's so interesting 'cause the previous interview I did, uh, for the podcast with, Sebastian, he shared a very similar story about being an executive director and realizing that just in terms of allocating resources, the mission could continue further if he removed himself. It takes, I think a lot of integrity to make that decision because yeah, you are the one getting cut off.
What is that like for you emotionally to grapple with the here feels like the right thing to do strategically for the company and the people in the company and it's going to impact me personally.
Yeah, I think this is where this version of myself now has things like the group where we know each other from, right, which is
Mm-hmm.
right? Finding people who are, you know, that peer support. And not having my work community be my primary community. that was something I don't think I was really fully present to until left corporate because I went on this, you know, there was several months where I, I was really shocked at how much my identity was collapsed with my corporate title. If you'd asked
Mm-hmm.
I worked at corporate, I'd be like, no, I have a very thriving life outside of this. And then once it was gone, it was like, wow. Like I still, when people ask what's up in my life, I still , I'm like, I don't have work to talk about. What do I talk about even though I have all these other things going on, like without that making me up, get up in the morning, what does my morning routine look like?
There was just so many little pieces of life that I came to realize were really tied up working for someone else. And I don't do that anymore. And so at the time when I made that decision, when I was working for the bottling plant, I was really young and it was, I, it didn't even occur to me.
It was just like, this is the right thing to do I'm gonna trust that if I do the right thing that. The universe
Mm-hmm.
will have my back. And so it didn't even really dawn on me, uh, for very long anyway, to just stay and ride it out, like it wasn't a
Mm.
Um, but you know, now, 20 plus years later, it is literally 20 years, more than 20 years later. The loneliness piece doesn't weigh in as much because I do the work to have community outside of my work peers.
Hmm.
the last company I worked for was a very large, large company and, even there, I had learned the lesson that, yeah, I was friends with some of my immediate counterparts and peers, but I also worked hard to cultivate relationships with people in completely unrelated departments because then we could have community around the brand we worked for, the values the corporate structure, but our job roles had nothing to do with each other. And
Mm-hmm.
freedom and some deeper community available in that it wasn't friends of convenience, it was friends of choice. We just happened to all work for the same company, I think that's something we lose pulse on is when most of our friends become friends of convenience.
And our commonality is something that could change very quickly and
Mm-hmm.
know, yeah, it can get very complicated.
That is. So, yeah, Friends of Choice versus friends of convenience is such a wise way to look at it. And I really hear in what you're talking about, something that I value too, and that I think people.
Usually neglect whether in leadership or elsewhere, deliberate, thoughtful cultivation of friendships. And
how do you feel that that impacted your experience of loneliness and isolation or not?
Yeah.
Over your career?
There were many times where, like the middle, like I said, the middle chunk of my career, I was traveling a lot. And what that looked like is I was, I would embed myself in an organization for three to nine months. So I would live in corporate housing in a new
Mm.
where I knew nobody,
Mm-hmm.
And that was the growth edge for me is the first couple of times I did that. I just kept trying to travel home as much as I could. but then I learned how to make friends, right? To make friends with the bartender, to make friends with the, the clerk at the grocery store to become a regular, at a diner and make friends, you know? but, but initially I didn't have that skill or that awareness, and it could be really lonely. And when most of your friends are your work family, which personally I loathe that phrase.
Mm-hmm.
We're
Mm-hmm.
an objective. We do not have each other's best interests in mind. Right? That's what
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
but when most of your community is your work family, that's the crux of it, right? Is it's not only just friends of convenience, there's also the fact that everyone there is not out for each other. Everyone there ultimately has what's best for themselves in mind. so. A lot of my career, I spent four or five years at one company, then I spent several years jumping around and every time I switched it was like I had a whole new, you know,
Bye-bye family.
right?
Yeah.
um, but I'm grateful for, that's one of the many lessons I got out of those years when I was doing a lot of traveling, is the value of connection. Outside of the workplace. When you travel that much for another company, there's an expectation that you're just gonna work all the time.
'cause what else do you have to do? Right? So, you know, you're putting in 60, 70 hour weeks because you don't know anybody and you're not at home, and what else are you gonna do? And
Mm-hmm.
put up some real clear boundaries. And I use that time to, you know, explore and be a tourist and make friends and have new experiences because otherwise my mental health would suffer.
It would be really lonely.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It sounds like you have a, a big strength in that. You are strong on understanding when to be a leader for your own life, when to set boundaries for yourself,
Mm-hmm.
really being clear that nobody else is the authority over you. That you are the authority and the captain of your life, and you have to make deliberate choices to get what you need.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a great example. It's a great example. I'm so glad we're having this interview. One of the things that's been on my mind as we talk. I haven't brought a ton into the podcast, but for those who don't know, I'm a big Enneagram aficionado and I teach the Enneagram, which is a personality type system.
There's nine main personality types. I think you and I, Sunni have talked about it before, right? And do you know your Enneagram type? I'm just, it's like totally pinging for me, uh, with an eight wing.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. I hear those boundaries. I'm a type eight and I'm just like, I hear those type eight boundaries.
Just, Hmm. They're so good.
Mm-hmm.
know your subtype?
Is that the, is that another number or is that the, the way
That's the social, self-preservation, or sexual
sexual?
Ah, okay. Maybe self-preservation. Secondary.
Maybe
a,
been a while since I looked at it.
yeah, there's a, there's a way in which you have a really great focus on making sure that your needs are met. And I think of that as a self-preservation.
it is. I, um. I, there is the me that exists without any trauma or influence. And then there is the me that exists as a response to the trauma starting in childhood and who I needed to
Hmm.
be safe. And
Hmm.
that needed to adapt in order to be safe in childhood ended up also serving me in my corporate career.
Mm
one of the beautiful outcomes for me of being able to retire 10, 12 years ago now is that I got to really venture back into what is the me that exists without.
mm.
influence of those, those people, those things, those circumstances, you know, who am I gonna be when I don't have anyone else to answer to anyone else to dominate me?
Anyone else to tell me what I'm supposed to do. Um, I think natural sort of natal way of being is Enneagram
Mm-hmm.
sexual subtype, and then my adapted way of being is probably an eight with self preservation and both have their time and place that they serve. So
Mm-hmm. That makes sense. Yeah, it's hard to be. It's hard to be fully us, right? In a, in a, like, that's always the challenge. Everybody's like, just be yourself. But with all of our family of origin overlay, all of the trauma, all of the systemic, pressures, wherever you sit in a system, I think that's the ultimate triumph is to come back to being who you naturally are without
people telling you who you should be. I love that. So when you're at the top, when you're in leadership, no one really gets to see your balance sheet of burdens. Here we like to open the private ledger. I feel like we've kind of already been getting some peeks in there. So I would love to hear from you, one cost that you experienced from being in leadership.
I think it can tie back to some of the conversations we've already had around expectations and, isolation. There's, depending on the size of organization you're in. It's quite possible that there's only a limited number of people at the same leadership you are or above, then limits the people who you can, not commiserate, that's not the right word, but who really can share experiences with and you can be transparent with.
Especially when it comes to non-disclosure and appropriateness of sharing or, brainstorming, getting feedback on a decision, validation, all of that fun stuff. I think for me the cost was time and relationships outside of work. The higher into the echelons I went, the more expectation there was that I would be available.
I remember my family goes on a vacation every year together and I remember missing this amazing experience they had kayaking 'cause I was inside reviewing some spreadsheets or whatever, some documentation that the team had not gotten done on time before I left. But it was still neat, you know, and, instead of being like, you know what? company's not gonna crumble. I'm gonna hold my boundary. I did the thing,
Mm-hmm.
so I missed, I missed moments, I missed time, I missed experiences. And, I think I even missed some signs that my body was giving me that it needed some attention and health, you know, wellness
Mm.
I think the cost is, we underestimate how much energy it takes to fulfill those expectations and how little we have left for everything else.
Yeah. Yeah, I, I think one of my clients, we did a, an extra, she's been with me like 15 or 16 years now. I'm just like on as an advisor basically. But something we did years ago that I, of all the transformational work I've done, because just sidebar like I do so much deep inner child healing, transformational, ancestral burden relieving stuff.
We had a conversation one time about her priorities and just being really clear about setting her priorities on purpose, and she still says that's one of the most important things we ever did. I'm like, wow. But you know, not everybody, in fact, most people probably don't understand that your priorities get set unconsciously
Mm-hmm.
you cannot have more than one top priority.
Maybe you can kind of sort of share two. That's it. Everything else will be much less. So I love that you highlight that and that people, it's important for people to recognize that when you're in those kinds of positions, you have chosen this as your top priority and everything else is going to fight for second, third, and fourth place.
But it's not like. It's not the Olympics where for, you know, gold and silver are like right there on the platforms. It's like there's gold and then everything else is like down somewhere on the,
It
like near the base of the mountain.
It really, it really can be. I like to use the analogy of the big rocks, little rocks, sand and water, you know, and what you put in the jar, there's only room. So you put in your big rocks first and then you know, your little rocks can find their spots around. And that when we, when you're a leader, especially a leader in a corporation or where you're working for someone else. That job becomes the equivalent of like three of your five big rocks, like it takes up an enormous amount of space in the jar That is your life, and it's impossible to not have something else suffer and get less of
Hmm.
And so I'm all about choice and agency, and so I I like to really look at, okay, if I do this, what am I going to intentionally release so that it doesn't occur for me or others like suffering or abandonment or neglect.
Rather, it's a
Mm-hmm.
that was created and, you know, manifested and handled responsibly.
I can't remember where I heard this. I, I, yeah, I'll have to go look it up. But I remember watching an interview with some famous man who was good at something, right? He was famous for being good at something and they said, how did you get so good at whatever it was?
And he said, other things suffered. And I thought that was I, it just like, you know when I hear emotional truths, I'm like, oh yes, that feels, that feels so right. That feels so true. Not in a way that we have to celebrate or say that's amazing, but just it's so important to allow the truth and the grief of that knowledge.
We cannot honor everything equally. Other things will suffer.
yeah,
That's okay. That's, that's how it is, right? It is what it is.
yeah.
In your ledger, what is one invisible asset that you had that maybe you didn't realize at the time?
Neurodiversity.
Woo. Tell me about that.
I was often commended and at-a-girl'd asking questions. No one else was. Whether it was questions everybody was thinking about but nobody thought wanted to ask or just really getting into something other people hadn't thought about. I was asking questions no one else was. and in hindsight was autism. It was hyper focus. It was attachment to, to a need to know the answer and an inability to release it. Right? Like I look at, like, they
Yeah.
a dog with a bone. Part of it was youth in naivete, but I think a lot of it was neurodiversity
Mm-hmm.
I was an undiagnosed autistic, A DHD person, and I didn't know any better.
I was actually being socially awkward and probably a little arrogant and inappropriate, but again, because of my privilege, because of the way I looked, because of my age, because of how people chose to revere me, I got away with it. In fact, I was commended for it.
Hmm.
But I think that that was absolutely kind of a secret asset of mine that I, I, I didn't care.
I was gonna ask the questions. I was gonna
Yeah.
what do you mean we don't wanna talk about that? What do you mean somebody's gonna get in trouble for making a bad decision? There's lots of people suffering for it, so of course we're gonna rectify this silly thing in the spreadsheet. What do you mean we're not supposed to talk about it?
Right. So,
I love that. When I think of, people with neurodiversity having that as an a, like they wouldn't be where they are, if not for that neurodiversity, I think of Greta Thunberg. You know, she's, she just doesn't care about the social awkwardness and it's, it's made her a really impactful figure, in the climate change fight.
So I, I love that. I absolutely honor that with you. And it's cool that you see it now. I bet that is validating to past versions of yourself.
Yeah, for sure.
What is, and I think we've, you've talked about it, but maybe there's a different answer or maybe you wanna expand upon this one investment that you are making now for your wellbeing.
Hmm. Again, I could probably think about it really hard, come up with some really profound things. But the first
Eh.
to mind is actually really simple. I do a quarterly solo sabbatical, so I. Usually, I mean, sometimes I, I can only do it for a day, but most of the time I go somewhere and I book, you know, two or three nights in an Airbnb and it's usually somewhere in nature.
'cause that's what serves me. And take all of my metaphysical spiritual books or wherever I'm studying and I take lots of whatever feels nourishing for my body. Sometimes it's junk food, mostly it's healthy food, but it depends. Right. I just
We love our Cheetos.
Sometimes it's a junk
Yeah. Sometimes it's the thing.
And I just disappear for two days by myself. And personally, I choose to have that be disconnected from tech other than checking in with my family. And, I usually spend a lot of time in nature and I just take two days to disconnect from everything and focus on myself and. I, I, I remember one trip in in particular was when my kid was really young and I just binged watch stuff and ate junk food for two days. But you know what, that was the first time I'd had my
Yeah.
to myself in two years and gosh darn it, that's what I needed. And it was so
Yeah.
right? Um, so yeah, once a quarter, I do at least a day, but usually two, uh, full days as like a
Mm
sabbatical from everything. And it
mm
very nourishing.
Love that. I can think of several of my clients who also do that, in their roles as one of them is actually gonna be on the podcast later, and she's got a lot of pressure. But boy, I also hear that she really schedules those like, I am away and I'm away from everything.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it feels like in leadership, especially the more people you have in the wagon that you're partly pulling, it's the lack of release from that pressure ever.
You know what I mean? It doesn't always feel heavy. Sometimes you're trucking it, you're, you've got your stride, but, but sometimes it's just like, I just want the release of that, even just for a moment to be like, okay, my shoulders can relax and then I can come back in.
and when I think about if I had done this back when I was at corporate, there's a lot of benefits. There's the release from the pressure, there's also the team having the regular time to shine, right? My team has to figure it out without me and know that they can be self-sustaining. And or miss me and realize that I am,
Mm-hmm.
to have their back. my bosses, my
Uh.
have a chance to, to see that my team is, I've, I've raised good ones, right? I've got a good team I'm cultivating, but also my value. So there's a lot of value to taking time away I think that we underestimate. so yeah, I think if I had done this regularly when I was, back in corporate leadership, it would've given everybody a chance to shine and find their, their groove and yeah, it would've been good for everybody. So
Nice.
yeah,
What do you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
I need a nap.
Yeah, right.
And I mean, I'm being silly, but also seriously, like there's this culture amongst leaders often where everybody is sort of subconsciously or consciously one-upping each other. And like, how productive can you be? How early did you get up today? How much did you do? How many plates are you keeping?
And it's like, that's not actually serving anybody's whole
Nah.
Right? So normalizing yeah, man, I could use an nap.
Mm-hmm.
Do you mind if we reschedule our two o'clock and we can both just pass out on our collective couches or go to our cars for a bit? Can we just
Yes.
catch up on sleep and then we'll be kinder to each other and be better productive employees
Oh.
So, yeah, I, I wish we could normalize expression of needing a break, needing some sleep, needing some space.
Yeah, it's like everybody always feels like they have to be on for each other. Then it becomes this communal pressure. I love that. I think that's a great idea. If you're listening to this, maybe you can lead that culture change at your company. Like just normalize being like, you know what? 15 minutes isn't gonna kill any of us.
Everybody just go and you know, take some kind of mental rest in any kind of way that would serve. I think that's a great idea. Well, we're coming to the end I'm gonna ask you the time machine question, but before I do, I know that even though you've been retired for a while, you do still provide services, as an intuitive strategist and a fractional COO,
if anybody is interested in working with you and your wisdom at this place, how would they do that?
Yeah. Yeah. As as of this recording, which we're. Almost in August
Mm-hmm.
Um, I do, I have, I do have an opening for another client. I just had somebody wrap up recently. I work with people both as a consultant and as a fractional leader. And folks can learn more about that at my website, which is WildflowerStrategy.com.
And if you put in /coo that takes you straight to that information. I also, work with a nonprofit every quarter, pro bono offering kind of strategic oversight. So if anybody has one or wants to nominate one, they can also track me down and tell me about 'em. 'cause I do, I pick a new one every quarter to play with for a season.
So, yeah.
Lovely. If people wanna track you down, what's the best way to get in touch with you?
Social.WildflowerStrategy.com is the best way. It's got my email, all my socials, all the places you might prefer to cyber stalk me or DM me are gonna be at Social.WildflowerStrategy.com.
Awesome. Don't stalk her. That's not okay. We're just not gonna have that happen at all. But enjoy and follow and wanna communicate with Sunni. That's how you do it. Fantastic. Well, so we're gonna, open the doors of the time machine. You get to step in, program the dial to go back to some point in your career.
Where would you zap to and what would you wanna say to yourself earlier in your career?
I think for me, that first company I worked out where I was a temp and IT department scooped me up, right? There was a moment where I had the thought I could have a career in this and I diminished it. And literally for the next 15 years, I was faith'n it till I made it. I was always like, someone's gonna figure out that I'm just an art major that stumbled into this job and I'm not really supposed to be here.
I'm really meant to be a creative person. so yeah, I think if I had a time machine and can go back and, and talk to that version of myself, I would tell her like, Hey, what would happen if you just owned the fact that this is your career and creative people can work in tech. I think that might have freed me up, in a way that I could really own and appreciate and enjoy my success instead of always having an underlying sense of imposter syndrome or fear.
You know, fear that it might end, fear that I wasn't enough. All that stuff. I think that there was definitely a moment where if I could go back and talk to her right around that time and be like, what if you actually do have this? I think it, it could be an interesting shift. Yeah.
I love it. I love it. And in some way, let's just say that that's happened and that that moves forward into the present time too.
Yeah,
Well, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. Your experience is so interesting and unique, and I think it's gonna benefit other people who might be in leadership and don't look like the norm in whatever way.
I think they're gonna hear a lot in your story that they appreciate and feel validated by.
Good, good. I love that. Thank you for having me, giving me a chance to share my story and offer that validation.
Thanks everyone for listening to Lonely At the Top. If today's conversation resonated, I hope you'll give yourself permission to pause even just for a moment and check in with what you might be carrying silently. You don't have to hold it all alone. If you're ready for support in your leadership, you can learn more about working with me at RachelAlexandria.com.
If you know another leader who would benefit from hearing this podcast, please send it their way because, yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way.