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Work like you’re not a parent.
Parent like you don’t work.
What if that whole system is wrong?
This is Full Stack Moms, and we are Mallory Lee and Shannon Curran, two working moms navigating tech careers, parenting, and everything in between. We talk about why the traditional rules of work don’t fit modern parents and how women in tech are doing things differently. Through honest conversations and behind-the-scenes stories, this show explores careers, caregiving, ambition, and the messy reality of having it all, just not all at once.
Connect with Mallory: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/
Connect with Shannon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-sweeny-curran/
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com
(00:00) Mallory Lee:
57% of millennial dads consider being a parent as part of their identity, and that is only 1% less than the moms. So the moms are 58% who say being a parent is part of their identity and the dads are basically equal, which I think is so cool.
(00:18) Shannon Curran:
So 42% of parents don't think that they're a parent?
(00:21) Mallory Lee:
They just don't identify as like, oh, I'm Mallory and I'm a mom, or I'm Brian and I'm a dad. It definitely gives those fifty fifty vibes that I think a lot of us are experiencing. And part of it is you can't be an ambitious working mom without a supportive working dad and vice versa. This is full stack moms.
(00:47) Shannon Curran:
This is not a parenting podcast nor a business podcast, but a place where we talk, building careers in tech, raising kids at home, and making it work in public.
(00:57) Mallory Lee:
Hello.
(00:59) Shannon Curran:
Hi everybody. Just us gals today.
(01:02) Mallory Lee:
We entertained the idea of talking about this around Father's Day timeframe.
(01:06) Shannon Curran:
Right.
(01:07) Mallory Lee:
And that didn't come true.
(01:10) Shannon Curran:
No.
(01:11) Mallory Lee:
And our husbands don't want to be on the podcast.
(01:15) Shannon Curran:
Not the save of the week. Just kidding.
(01:18) Mallory Lee:
Yeah. Right? They're just fans. They are longtime listener, never caller.
(01:24) Shannon Curran:
Never time caller. Yeah. Well, it's also, I didn't really even think about the logistical nightmare that would be trying to get all of us available at the same time. Also, that was really hard. I was like, so we'd have to have my mom come over and then you guys would also have to. And will we do it at night?
(01:42) Mallory Lee:
It'd be like at 10:00 PM.
(01:45) Shannon Curran:
Yeah, like podcasting in the. You think it's dark in here during the day. Can you imagine what it looks like at night? This thing is.
(01:51) Mallory Lee:
Anyway, say all that to say, we wanted to make sure that we had an episode where we started to trickle in some dad convos because ultimately I feel like a lot of the stuff we talk about is very working mom, but it's also very working parent. And there's so much stuff that also applies to the dads. And I know we have dad listeners and I've gotten some comments just on LinkedIn where somebody's like, "As a dad, I also relate to this." And I'm like, "Thank you for caring." And so I wanted to talk about dads today. Go into some fun facts.
(02:33) Shannon Curran:
Love that. I do think in the future, there are a few startup dad podcasts that I think are really cool. So I think in the future we can definitely have some of the dads on, but we wanted to just talk a little bit about being with dads right now. And we know that you all love the data. We got really good feedback on our data rich episodes. So Mallory pulled some stats for us about dadding in today's world.
(02:58) Mallory Lee:
Yep. We're going to learn about millennial dads with stats behind it, and that will be exciting. We have proof about how great they are.
(03:08) Shannon Curran:
Not just how we feel.
(03:12) Mallory Lee:
All right. If there's any episode where I could potentially get emotional, it's probably this one because I'm just so obsessed with Brian. So hopefully -
(03:20) Shannon Curran:
Now that I know Brian, I'm also obsessed with
(03:22) Mallory Lee:
Brian. Oh, I know. We're going to talk about it. First things first, I think everyone has their own dad experience that they grew up with. So when you get married and you're choosing a partner, you might have some kind of idea in your head about how dads are or how dads are not, or things that you wish your dad would've done differently. And you kind of bring that in to the beginning of the story. And there's this cliche that girls look for guys that are just like their dad. Do you think there's truth to that? Is Pete like your dad?
(04:01) Shannon Curran:
Oh, Mallory. Do we want to keep just down this road? Yeah, no, he is.
(04:05) Mallory Lee:
Maybe not. Maybe not, but I'm curious.
(04:07) Shannon Curran:
No, no, he definitely is. And I think this is also, for all of our listeners, this is a very heteronormative conversation. We are both in heteronormative relationships. But yes, I do think there is this feeling of you learn about caregiving from your parents. I think it's obvious that you'll look for the things that you find comfort in, in a partner, for good or bad. But I think that there is definitely a lot of similarities around even if you don't notice that you're doing it. A lot of people do subconsciously rebuild their family as adults or purposely do things that are different. Yes. But yeah, there are definitely some similarities for sure.
(04:45) Mallory Lee:
That's funny.
(04:46) Shannon Curran:
Do you have that experience?
(04:47) Mallory Lee:
In a couple ways. So as a human, Brian is like my dad, but as a dad -
(04:55) Shannon Curran:
So different.
(04:56) Mallory Lee:
So different. Exactly. That's how
(04:58) Shannon Curran:
I feel
(04:58) Mallory Lee:
Too. It's fascinating. And that's the generational part. So if you think about the data, there's all this research. Millennial dads have tripled the amount of time dedicated to childcare compared to dads from 1965. So this is like a pew research study. Triple the time. So today's dads spend an average of 80 or more minutes doing hands-on parenting per day.
(05:28) Shannon Curran:
So they were spending 10 minutes before? What's the math on that?
(05:32) Mallory Lee:
Yeah, they're spending barely 30 minutes doing hands-on parenting. And I was thinking to myself, what does that include? So okay, story time or out playing catch or making dinner. It's not just sitting on the couch being around your kids. It's the really hands-on part is the way that I'm interpreting this. So that right there is kind of the first thing is just how much time they're spending. And I've also seen some articles that talk about how millennial dads are looking for more flexibility at work so that they can spend more time with their families. I think that goes hand in hand because maybe that other generation also had less flexibility at work.
(06:16) Shannon Curran:
I think it's a bunch of different things. I think it was significantly less common to have a flexible work life. It was also more common to have a single income house. It was also possible for that to be the case back then. Extremely hard for that to exist now. My dad was traveling to China for a one-day meeting when I was a kid.That was a thing he was doing. Or Germany, and that now just gets done on Zoom. So I think a part of that is, I wonder if that's a part of it too, is travel, work travel has changed a lot. But I think the culture too has changed significantly of dads wanting to be more involved. You've heard me talk a million times about not being able to be a working mom if you don't have the support of another parent. I guess back in the day what they would do is they would just hire a nanny, right?
(07:04) Shannon Curran:
But I think there's a want to experience your kids more in real time than there used to be.
(07:12) Mallory Lee:
Yeah. I have a funny story about this. So when we were little, my mom was working as a nurse and she didn't work too much. She was part-time, but she had to work every other weekend. And so my dad was in charge every other weekend. And every Saturday we had a babysitter. He would leave. And she was amazing. Her name was Melidia. I still remember her and love her. Brian would just absolutely never do that now. He doesn't
(07:45) Shannon Curran:
Even ask for help when I'm gone. He doesn't even ask for help when I'm gone. I get more help than he does. It's interesting. I think we've talked a little bit about, I think I mentioned this on one of the episodes that I love the thought of from competence makes confidence. This idea that the more you do it, the more confident you feel. So if it's only every other week, one time, maybe it's really hard. I don't know. And so I think about the fact that Pete does a lot more reps than I do on solo parenting, honestly. He's really confident in it and he does a really good job. I think that might be a little bit of it too. My mom worked nights and weekends when I was growing up too. My dad would take us to the aquarium and lose us. There would always be something.
(08:30) Mallory Lee:
We lost my brother all the time.
(08:32) Shannon Curran:
All the
(08:32) Mallory Lee:
Time. We had to call him over the loudspeaker.
(08:35) Shannon Curran:
Maybe that's where Bennett
(08:36) Mallory Lee:
Got
(08:36) Shannon Curran:
It. Yeah, it's genetic that he runs away.
(08:41) Mallory Lee:
Here's another one that kind of shocked me. So 57% of millennial dads consider being a parent as part of their identity, and that is only 1% less than the moms. So the moms are 58% who say being a parent is part of their identity and the dads are basically equal, which I think is so cool.
(09:04) Shannon Curran:
So 42% of parents don't think that they're a parent.
(09:07) Mallory Lee:
They just don't identify as like, oh, I'm Mallory and I'm a mom. Or I'm Brian and I'm a dad, I guess. I don't know what it exactly means, but it definitely gives those fifty fifty vibes that I think a lot of us are experiencing. And part of it is you can't be an ambitious working mom without a supportive working dad and vice versa. So I think that there's a lot of equality in that, but I still thought that was pretty cool.
(09:40) Shannon Curran:
So I've been in person with some clients this week and I've missed a lot of bedtimes. And we had two dinner nights in a row, and I was kind of thinking about not coming to the last one. I was just like, ugh. I just felt like I was asking a lot too. I was like, this is my fifth night in a row missing bedtime. And I said this to the CRO, my client, in passing the night before. And then he sent me a slack the next day that was like, "By the way, we'd really love to have you at dinner tonight. Please come." It was a really nice dinner too. It's the end of the kickoff. He's like, "But I totally understand if you don't want to miss bedtime, I've missed a few this week and I hate it." And it was a very open, nice way of being like, "I'm seeing how hard it is as a parent.
(10:22) Shannon Curran:
I'm also feeling like it's hard, and I don't think any less of you if you are not going to come." It was really refreshing coming from a male executive too. I don't know if that text ever would've been sent 20 years ago. I can't imagine. I wasn't there, but I can't imagine.
(10:38) Mallory Lee:
Yeah. Even the old movies, I don't know why, but I'm reminded of this One Fine Day, that movie with Michelle Pfeiffer in it. Have you watched that? Yes.
(10:50) Shannon Curran:
Yep. Yes.
(10:51) Mallory Lee:
I don't
(10:51) Shannon Curran:
Remember it at all, but I know which movie you're talking about.
(10:53) Mallory Lee:
There's drinks and she's an architect or something, and they're demanding that she be at the drinks. And she's having to choose between taking the clients to drinks and taking her kid to something. So it's sweet. But the boss was demanding you better be at this drink type of thing. So he was from a different generation.
(11:18) Shannon Curran:
We thought about this when we were running an event during Boston Tech Week. We decided to do a morning event. And we had a bunch of people come, really high level executives, CMOs at big companies. And a lot of them were like, "Thank you so much for having an event earlier in the day so I don't have to..." Because this was an all week thing. They're like, "We're missing our kids every one of these nights. It's so much easier to do events during the day." And it's something that I didn't even really think about. It's funny because I am a parent, but I didn't even really think about how big of an ask it is to do something after work when you're already potentially only getting three. Some people I know only get two hours a day with their kids when they get home, if their kids go to bed early.
(11:57) Shannon Curran:
So those are precious hours. So asking you to go to a dinner doesn't sound like a big deal, but if you do it all the time, it can feel like a big deal.
(12:04) Mallory Lee:
This is a funny one. Nowadays, 97% of fathers change diapers. Back in 1982, guess how many percentage of fathers did that?
(12:15) Shannon Curran:
20.
(12:21) Mallory Lee:
And 60.
(12:23) Shannon Curran:
Okay.
(12:27) Mallory Lee:
I love it. I love your optimism.
(12:30) Shannon Curran:
Sorry. Well, I don't know. I was going for the shock factor. I wasn't sure how shocking it was. But
(12:35) Mallory Lee:
60 is still very
(12:36) Shannon Curran:
Low. Very low.
(12:37) Mallory Lee:
It is pretty low. This is a fun fact. So we're both C-section moms, right?
(12:43) Shannon Curran:
Yes, we are.
(12:44) Mallory Lee:
And I don't know if it was like this for you, but when I was in the hospital with the babies, I did not change a single diaper, not a single one, because you're confined to the bed.
(12:56) Shannon Curran:
I have a vivid memory of watching my dad and Pete change Sebastian's diaper, the two of them together. And I was like, "This is the funniest." Also, I babysat growing up. I had friends that had kids. So I have changed many diapers in my life. And so to think, I'm pretty sure that was Pete's first diaper. Why would he have, I don't know, why would he have ever changed a diaper before? Hopefully not my dad's. I don't think it was my dad's first, but I hope not, but I don't know. But I remember being like, I can't even help. They wouldn't even let me twist to get my water. They were like, "Please don't twist." And I was like, "Okay, well, here I am just over
(13:36) Mallory Lee:
Here." Just going to sit here.
(13:38) Shannon Curran:
Yeah. But yes. But yes, it's funny how it creates equity from the beginning. You're right.
(13:42) Mallory Lee:
It does. And during those first few days in the hospital, you have to track all of the diaper activity so that people can see that the baby's on track for moving food through its system. So Brian was also clipboard guy of tracking all the diaper stuff. I just think it's so cute and wonderful. They're just in charge of that from the get-go. And then you get home and things quickly change, but it was so cute. One time back at Exact Target days, we had one of the guys on our team, he's probably on the very, very edge of the most elder millennial, I would say. A little bit older than me, but not that much. And he was having a kid. So we did an in-office baby shower like you did back in the day. And I made a game and it was diaper changing races to see who could change the diapers the fastest.
(14:34) Mallory Lee:
And it was his first time attempting to change a diaper. It was just like a baby doll. It was really funny. I just remember he had no idea what he was doing. And then I felt like I did a tiny little help to his wife to show him how to change a diaper.
(14:48) Shannon Curran:
Women supporting women. Yeah, I
(14:50) Mallory Lee:
Was trying to figure
(14:52) Shannon Curran:
Out - Very easy to put them on backwards. Very easy to put them on backwards. It can happen. We've all done that. It can happen. We've all done it. Yeah, there's no. Yeah, exactly. I remember going to buy diapers for the first time. I was going to a friend's baby shower and being like, "What does the number mean? I don't understand. I though they were by age, so it was one years old whereas a one. Two years old." I'm like, "Five-year-olds wear diapers?" I remember being like, "This is crazy." And then you look and you're like, oh no, no, no, it's by weight. It's hard. It's just new, new information. Now, unfortunately, I know far too much about diaper brands, diapers, which ones to wear, which not to wear, when they go on sale at Target, when they don't go. I know far too much.
(15:35) Mallory Lee:
This is so off-topic, but I've started seeing the fanciest new diaper packaging at Target. Everyone now has their premium organic diaper and all different - The free
(15:47) Shannon Curran:
BPA-free and. Yeah.
(15:49) Mallory Lee:
Yes. Yeah. That was not a thing in my time. And I'm a little bit glad because I would've bought them all. I would've been like, "Ooh, this is a pretty package. I better try it." And it
(15:58) Shannon Curran:
Also makes you feel bad. You're like, "I don't want to put chemicals on my child's body, but I also can't spend $70 a package on diapers." I did end up using Coterie. I feel like they were the original bougie diaper brand only because it was the only one that worked for nighttime for Sebastian. Everything else did not work. And someone had gifted me a package of them, and I put one on him and he slept through the entire night because he wasn't wet. I was like, "Oh, it seems I'm now this person." Because it was a function situation. It wasn't even like I felt super passionate about whatever the stuff is. But I was like, "Well, all right, so now it looks like we have bougie diapers at night." But luckily, we haven't had the same situation with Willow. But I remember my friends being like, "You spend what on those diapers?" I was like, "Guys, it is survival.
(16:45) Shannon Curran:
Okay? We are just trying to survive here."
(16:48) Mallory Lee:
Yes, and sometimes you get what you pay for. It just happens sometimes.
(16:53) Shannon Curran:
They have extremely good swim diapers as well. The coterie ones. They're extremely good. Worth the extra few bucks for comfort and lack of diaper rash. Save of the week from myself two years ago probably.
(17:03) Mallory Lee:
That's true. Okay, here's a heartwarming thing here. So this is a study that came from the Bezos Family Foundation National Parent Survey. Interesting. 90% of millennial and Gen X dads say that parenting is their greatest joy. How cute is that?
(17:25) Shannon Curran:
A part of me is like, is it the Gen X dad's greatest joy? Because they don't do any of the hard parts. Yeah, must be.
(17:37) Mallory Lee:
It reminds me of Mary Poppins where the dad sings at the beginning and he's like, "I pat them on their head and send them off to bed." And he does nothing, but he's so proud of it.
(17:49) Shannon Curran:
And then he hired a witch. You know what I mean? We never talk about that. Oh,
(17:54) Mallory Lee:
That's weird. But
(17:56) Shannon Curran:
I love that. Yes. My brother said, I remember him saying after he had his second maybe he goes, I was like, "So what's it like?" He goes, "It's the only thing worth the hype." And I was like, "It's true." So I say it all the time now too. People are like, "How are things as a parent?" I'm like, "It's the only thing worth the hype."
(18:12) Mallory Lee:
That's adorable. I love that. This is a stat that's older, but it kind of works with some of our conversations we've been having. So between 1989 and 2014, there was a 70% increase in fathers who chose to stay home and raise children.
(18:28) Shannon Curran:
I wonder if it's more common for moments in time too. I think there's people that take two years off or I know we'll probably get to, I think that you have a section around parental leave, but guys that take six months off. Or I have a friend that her husband took the first year of their child's life. They were both nurses, so he just took a year off. I wonder what's considered stay-at-home dad too. I think that might be more common that there's phases of life where you each go.
(18:54) Mallory Lee:
That could for sure be the case. We've related to the parental time. Leave taking among fathers has tripled since 2019 with the largest gains in the states that have paid leave programs. Of course. This is something really recent. So I definitely am seeing so much more of this where the parental leave is now including the dads, which we've talked about before. It's amazing. Brian's company always had an unofficial couple of weeks for dads, but nobody ever took it ever. And that was only 10, eight years ago. You know what I mean?
(19:31) Shannon Curran:
There's the systemic issue of do you have paid leave? Do you not? And then there's the cultural issue of, oh, why do you need time to take off? Your wife should be taking care of the baby. Why would she need help? When I was growing up, I didn't take time off. I went back to work on Monday. I do think there is this interesting cultural shift. Well, Melissa was talking about this. Her husband, there was a newer benefit and his work actually pushed him to take it because they were like, "We actually want to see what it's like for you." He works at a really large company though, so slightly different, I think. I know culturally it was really interesting. It was just announced, I think before we had Sebastian, that Pete would get three months off. And I think everyone was like, "Well, why would you take what you're really going to take it?" I can't remember.
(20:16) Shannon Curran:
I'm trying to remember the specifics. And then some other people were like, "Why wouldn't you take it? You're going to get paid in full that whole time. Go take it." So it just depended who you talked to, what the perception was. But I think it's certainly changing. I'm seeing it change a lot of if you don't take the time, I feel like now people are like, "What is wrong with you? Go help your family. What are you doing?" We work in a pretty high pressure environment, but I'm sure in investment banking and stuff, it would surprise me if people are still not taking time and off. I don't know the answer to that, but yeah, that's a huge number, huge jump.
(20:47) Mallory Lee:
Yeah, it does depend on the company. And since then, Brian's company has introduced six weeks or more that can be used off and on during the first year of the kids' life. And I think that is a pattern that we're seeing more with other businesses and people are taking the time now. So I think that that's great, even if it wasn't the norm for us back then. According to McKinsey, fathers who take paternity leave, they return to work more engaged and productive and are likely to stay at their company longer. So there you go, businesses. It's worth it.
(21:22) Shannon Curran:
Yeah. It's this short-term loss for a long-term gain. I think we talked to, did we talk to Sydney about this? That it was like if you can't see past missing somebody for 90 days, typically it's like 90 days, one quarter at the most. Very few companies give the six months. I feel like a majority of them give between six and 12 weeks. It's not anything insane. To be able to retain an excellent employee for multiple years, it feels kind of obvious from an economics perspective to do that, but not a lot of companies think beyond the quarter that they're in. So I think that's probably a little bit of shortsightedness is not helpful.
(22:01) Mallory Lee:
Yeah. Fair enough. I agree. Well, I think those are the biggest ones that were jumping out to me. American dads are working less, parenting more. Reddit users have coined the term the millennial dad effect. That's so interesting. Millennial dads don't believe that parenting is exclusively women's work the way that basically every prior generation did.
(22:23) Shannon Curran:
Claude. Sassy Claude.
(22:28) Mallory Lee:
Oh, we love Claude for giving us some stats here.
(22:32) Shannon Curran:
I wonder what the difference in Gen Z is. I know that Gen Z is just starting to have kids. What difference is going to be there? I'm super interested to see how parenting continues to change over time. It's as humans evolve, how we care for each other is going to change. I think it's very interesting. But also it's really cultural. There's a lot of these things that are super cultural too. This is probably not true for every demographic, right?
(22:52) Mallory Lee:
Well, I think just shout out to the amazing dads that we know that we've worked with as well. Every company that I've worked with, I can think of at least one or two guys where I was like, "Oh, you're such a great dad." And they weren't afraid to talk about being a dad. And I think that that helps all the rest of the guys in the office just see it's okay to talk about that and be proud of it and have fun with it.
(23:19) Shannon Curran:
It is really cool to be able to parent out loud at work now, which I think is a real relief when you're not holding all that stress silently. It's like, oh, he had to go to his son's coaching baseball. That has happened at one of my clients recently. Two of the executives are coaching baseball, they're kids' baseball teams. And so we would have a dinner plan and they're like, "Oh, we can only do Wednesdays." I'm like, "Great, no problem." They're like, "It's a priority that I show up." And I'm like -
(23:43) Mallory Lee:
And we love that for them.
(23:45) Shannon Curran:
We love
(23:46) Mallory Lee:
That. So true. I'm sure
(23:46) Shannon Curran:
Their kids do too.
(23:47) Mallory Lee:
Our CRO, Mark, shared a picture of him and his son and the baseball team because they won the championship, which was so cool and special for him. He was coaching that. So it's so heartwarming. What's the funniest thing that Pete does as a dad that stands out to you? I
(24:07) Shannon Curran:
Do joke that every toy in the house is taken out when Pete is parenting. They've played with everything. Literally somehow. And it's so funny. Pete's also obsessed with making sure they eat, they have enough food. So he's also made seven breakfasts before noon. And every toy is out. And he's also really good about bringing them to places that will be really fun for them. We have a place near us called Amazement, and it's this really old. It has not changed since I was a child. I don't think they've updated a single thing in the place. It's like an indoor play place. And they went every day when I was gone. And Sebastian goes everywhere. We go amazement. We go into amazement. I love that he does that kind of stuff with them. He's very activity forward. It's not really particularly funny though. I bet there is something.
(24:54) Shannon Curran:
I need to think about it. You go.
(24:56) Mallory Lee:
Yeah. And funny might not be the right word. Let's not worry too much about being funny. But one thing that I love about Brian and the boys love is how into traditions he is. And this is especially true for male children. They become obsessed with tradition and they love predictability too. So kids love predictability because it makes them feel safe and traditions play into that. And so I feel like almost everything ends up becoming a tradition with Brian. Every Friday, family movie night, that's all of us together. Every weekend almost, he'll take the boys to go get donuts and probably go to a hardware store. So that now is just expected. He is most often the one to do the bedtime story and reading. Hopefully during that time I'm cleaning up the kitchen, but that doesn't always happen. And they have very specific tickling patterns that have to happen every night.
(25:59) Mallory Lee:
It's the same thing to every boy every night. And the way that they stick to it I think is just very heartwarming and adorable. He's got nicknames for every boy. And I don't know, there's just so many things where I'm like, "You're awesome."
(26:15) Shannon Curran:
One of my favorite things, so Pete doesn't ever like a matching set. This is a funny thing about him. So the pajamas are always mismatched, always. And Sebastian now thinks it's so fun. He's like, "I'm wearing dinosaurs and bees or I'm wearing moons and this." Sometimes in the morning when I go to change him, because I do mornings alone, he goes, "My dad gave me this shirt. My dad gave it to me." And I'm like, "That's very
(26:39) Mallory Lee:
True."
(26:43) Shannon Curran:
Yeah, you can tell because it doesn't match your pants. That is what I always. I'm like, "I know."
(26:49) Mallory Lee:
Sebastian's current age is just peak, adorable, starting to just see things and understand and talk about stuff. Oh my gosh.
(27:00) Shannon Curran:
This morning wanted to watch TV in our bed instead of on the couch. And he was like, "I'm going to go in mommy and daddy's room." And that is not the easiest way to do the morning, but I'm like, okay. So I brought him in and he just kept going, "It's so comfy. It is so comfy. It's so comfy, mommy." And I was like, "Oh my God, it's so good." I was just like, "How can this not be the best 30 minutes of my life? You know what I mean? Of course, Will is trying to throw herself off the bed. There's a bunch of..." But man, it was cute. It was so comfy, mommy. So comfy.
(27:32) Mallory Lee:
Well, maybe one more stat here. So 60% of dads want more information on how to be better parents. And they do research, which I think is also awesome. I remember some podcasts that Brian and I both used to listen to when the kids were really little.
(27:52) Shannon Curran:
Which ones?
(27:53) Mallory Lee:
Unruffled. Janet Lansbury. And she is still going strong. She has been doing this podcast for probably at least 10 years.
(28:03) Shannon Curran:
She like a child psychologist?
(28:05) Mallory Lee:
Yeah, something like that. And she has a book called No Bad Kids.
(28:09) Shannon Curran:
Yes, I read the book. Yeah, I knew I knew I heard a name from somewhere.
(28:12) Mallory Lee:
Yeah, she's awesome. So we both used to listen to that. And I could actively see the way that both of us were trying to make sure that we were parenting in a way that we wanted to, and not just what we were familiar with from our childhood.
(28:28) Shannon Curran:
Totally. I thought this was because I was also older when I had kids and two years older than me. So we were able to be really thoughtful about the way that we wanted to do things just because we had more mental space to be able to think about it. I'm sure there'll be a million reasons that our kids have issues with the way that we did things. I'm sure it's not perfect. But a similar situation. I listened to Dr. Becky a lot. She wrote Good Inside. So it's similar concept. Specifically around dealing with toddlerhood, I feel like that's the bigger one. But it is really hard because you can't in the moment talk to your partner when something's happening. So you have to hopefully come in with the same information to be like, "This is how..." And then usually you're like, "Okay, we could have done that better.
(29:11) Shannon Curran:
Let's handle it differently next time." But never seen that before, the amount of times that happens where you're like, "Whoa, that was really something else, huh? Really? No. Whoa. That's like, whoops, we'll fix that next time." I think a part of that too is feeling ownership over decisions. I think it was Chantel that was talking about this. She's like, "I've had to relinquish a lot of control over parenting because it's not just me. It's not just what I think. It's not just my opinion. It's both of us. There's a lot of mom ran the house kind of when
(29:43) Mallory Lee:
It came to - Yeah, go ask mom.
(29:45) Shannon Curran:
Go ask mom. Or only ask dad if mom already said no. You know what I mean? There was this, that's not really necessarily my house, but I feel like that's a trope that you always think about. Our
(29:55) Mallory Lee:
Kids do that. Our kids do
(29:57) Shannon Curran:
That, pretty sure. Yeah. Well, I'm sure that's just so Second nature of. But I do think there was always a kind of who was ever the final say. And I hope we're raising our kids in a house that that's not the case. There's no final say from one person or the other. But it definitely is cool to see dads feeling really ownership over the way we're going to parent or the way we're going to teach our kids things, which is cool. Hopefully they're feeling really confident in being able to do that. And it also takes a lot of the mental load and the pressure off of moms that they have a partner that's helping them with it.
(30:30) Mallory Lee:
This is a fun fact perhaps. I don't know if this happens to everybody or not, but there was a phase where I didn't think I wanted kids.
(30:38) Shannon Curran:
Really?
(30:40) Mallory Lee:
Yeah. Isn't that interesting?
(30:42) Shannon Curran:
When was this?
(30:43) Mallory Lee:
That's a good question. There were a couple phases where I was like, I don't know if I want to do that.
(30:49) Shannon Curran:
Sounds like a lot of work.
(30:50) Mallory Lee:
But it was not until I started dating Brian that I wanted kids because I wanted - Oh, so
(30:55) Shannon Curran:
You were younger, younger. Got it.
(30:56) Mallory Lee:
Yeah, yeah. I was like, I didn't want kids until I wanted to have little copies of him. Well,
(31:05) Shannon Curran:
You got three of them, so that's good.
(31:07) Mallory Lee:
I know. I have three little additional Brians now. I remember the second after Brian. So Brian proposed to me, we were in a hot air balloon. Okay. It was this whole thing.
(31:17) Shannon Curran:
What?
(31:18) Mallory Lee:
And yeah, it was a really fun story. We were in a hot air balloon and it was a big surprise. And when we landed and we finally get out of this balloon and things are kind of sinking in, I just remember I looked at him and I said, "So I'm going to have your babies." And he's like, "Yeah, you are."
(31:40) Shannon Curran:
That's the plan. That's the plan.
(31:42) Mallory Lee:
Yep.
(31:43) Shannon Curran:
Hope so.
(31:43) Mallory Lee:
And apparently at that point I decided I wanted to have kids. But one thing that I make sure to do is I make sure to talk to the boys about the things that I want them to learn from their dad to be like their dad. And I'm like, "Think about how daddy does this. As a guy, here are the things you need to be looking at and mirroring and learning from him." And so I'm never shy about that. I think that, yeah, he's awesome.
(32:12) Shannon Curran:
Oh my God, that's so sweet. Hot air balloon. How was it a surprise? Did you not know that when you were going in a hot air balloon that there was something going on?
(32:18) Mallory Lee:
I had no idea. So we got up early and I remember he was like, "Hey, get dressed. We're going somewhere." And I was like, "Okay." And we were driving out in the country and I had no idea where we were going. And I said, "Are we going to get a puppy?" That's what I though we were doing. And he's like, "Oh my gosh, no."
(32:34) Shannon Curran:
So you're
(32:34) Mallory Lee:
Disappointed.
(32:36) Shannon Curran:
You're like, wait, but where's the puppy?
(32:38) Mallory Lee:
Right. And next thing I know, we're at this airport that was a further out airport, and there's this big hot air balloon. And I was like, "Oh, wow, we're going in the hot air balloon." And so we did quite a bit of the hot air balloon ride without any clue of what was happening.
(32:53) Shannon Curran:
My God. And he was just sitting there sweating? What was he doing?
(32:56) Mallory Lee:
Probably. Yeah, probably. The driver of the hot air balloon was taking pictures and videos, and that was part of the package. So I wasn't surprised by that. And then he asked if he could do some target practice because there's balloon racing. And the way that you do balloon racing is there's a big target on the ground and you fly your balloon over it and you throw down a beanbag and you try to get the closest to the target. It's like a whole thing. Unless this is all made up, this is what he told me. So there's a van following us, which they always do anyway so that when you land, they can pick you up. But then also the van was there to set out the target. So the van got ahead of us, set out the target, and he's like, "Okay, we're about to go over it." And so I'm looking over for the target, but instead it's a huge sign that says, "Will you marry me?" On the ground.
(33:47) Mallory Lee:
Yeah. It was so fun.
(33:51) Shannon Curran:
Wow.
(33:52) Mallory Lee:
And I was seriously shocked because fun fact about us is we never talked about getting married because I just - What? Yeah. We didn't talk about it. Wow. It was all a surprise. Because I didn't want to pressure him, and I wanted it to be all his idea. I was hopeful for it, but I never brought it up. We did not talk about it at all. Everything about it was the best surprise, but also I was trying to be patient and wait. So that's the thoughtfulness level of my husband that he's going to pass on to his little copies, his little boys. Oh
(34:34) Shannon Curran:
My God, that's so sweet. I love that. I'm so glad this story came up because I know you've been married a long time, so I'm sure it's not a story you get to tell all the time now.
(34:40) Mallory Lee:
I know. 15 years this summer. Wild.
(34:44) Shannon Curran:
Wow. Wow. Shout out to Brian for his production value. I love that.
(34:50) Mallory Lee:
Well, long story short, I think that we should start slowly trying to find some dads that we want to have on the podcast. So if you want to submit your husband as an awesome dad to come on and talk to us about being a working dad, we're totally game for -
(35:07) Shannon Curran:
Requirement that he spends more than 80 minutes a day with your child.
(35:14) Mallory Lee:
Requirement that he's a floor guy.
(35:16) Shannon Curran:
He's a floor dad. Big magna tiles guy. Got to be very involved. No, it's so funny. Yeah, it's awesome. And I know that there are a few podcasts that kind of talk on the dad's side of the stuff, so hopefully we can find some of those guys. But yeah, shout out to the working parents everywhere that are making this stuff work because it is extremely hard and it would be a lot easier to just be all one thing. And so I'm always just so inspired by the people that are breaking themselves in 12 pieces to be fulfilling all of the identities all the time. And I'm grateful too for the ones that watch me do it and make it easier for me. So yeah, I love this. Thanks for bringing the stats today. You can tell I did nothing to prepare for this. Mallory did all.
(36:00) Shannon Curran:
It's okay. I was the audience. I was the audience.
(36:04) Mallory Lee:
Claude did a lot. Claude did a lot. Yeah, that's fair.
(36:05) Shannon Curran:
Yeah. Very hands-on dad. Claude is very hands-on. Wait, do we want to save the week or what do you think?
(36:14) Mallory Lee:
This week flew by so fast. So fast. Yeah,
(36:16) Shannon Curran:
I don't even know where I am. I have no idea where I am.
(36:19) Mallory Lee:
Okay. My save this week is a product, actually two products. And they just came to us yesterday. We needed a new faucet for the kitchen sink, and we needed a new drinking water faucet that goes next to it. And so I got two different things from Amazon, of course, fast arrival, but I love the faucet. I just love it. I just love it. I don't know.
(36:48) Shannon Curran:
Why
(36:48) Mallory Lee:
Do we love it?
(36:49) Shannon Curran:
Why do we love it?
(36:50) Mallory Lee:
Well, I'm a big home and design and interiors gal, and I like the design, the aesthetic of it better than my other one. And the handle is a little higher, which I like better than the other one. It has some gold accents, even though it's black, which totally matches everything. Yep. So I love that. I like the sprayer better. It's a more narrow jet stream of spray. Love that. And we changed the drinking water faucet to a brushed gold. So it just looks great. I'm just so happy with both of those.
(37:26) Shannon Curran:
Love that. Me thinking about Mallory coming into my house a few weeks ago, being like, clearly I don't care as much about interior design, but well loved. Well loved. That's for sure.
(37:38) Mallory Lee:
We loved our first one. We ran it into the ground, so this will happen again.
(37:43) Shannon Curran:
Yeah, exactly. I think my save of this week was a mindset without sounding toxically positive because I am not that kind of gal. So I traveled this week, and there's a million things that can be super annoying about traveling. It's a generally inconvenient experience. There's nothing about it that's particularly convenient. But I decided to really think about, number one, I was grateful to be on my own, have some quiet time. I could read my books, I could watch a movie, whatever. My flight was delayed, all this stuff. The elevator of my hotel was broken, so I had to walk up and down five flights of stairs with my luggage and everything. But the people at the front desk were so apologetic. They felt so awful. The flight attendants were feeling so bad that our flight was late. And I just decided my perspective to be like, they're having a harder day than I am.
(38:31) Shannon Curran:
I have to walk up five flights of stairs. Or to be honest, I'm grateful that I have legs that walk up five flights of stairs. I was just trying to reframe any possible thing that could happen on, you know what? This flight's late, but it just is. And I feel really bad for all the pilot that's having to navigate the fact that there's a ton of rain in Boston right now and nobody can land planes. I just decided to try and reframe all of it. And I feel like because we've gotten a little less interpersonal in the world, we communicate a lot with people over technology and not as much face-to-face anymore, especially when you work remote. I spend so much of my life talking to people over this 13-inch screen and also my phone is like they're also having an experience today. I'm not the only one alive.
(39:16) Shannon Curran:
I'm not the only one experiencing things. My experience is not the only one. There are also a ton of people on this plane with kids. I'm thinking about the fact that they had planned it perfectly for their child's nap, and now their child has to be on a plane for two hours longer than you had planned. And it made my experience selfishly so much better. I was able to just operate in the world with being like, I'm not the only human that's alive and having empathy for everybody else. So I think that was a big save for what could have been a really chaotic week of travel, of second I came home, I had to be in Boston for two days, all this stuff, right?
(39:48) Mallory Lee:
Yeah. It could have totally ruined your trip if you let it and you just said, "Forget that. I'm not going to let it."
(39:56) Shannon Curran:
No going to let it. I'll walk up these stairs. It's okay. The down with my suitcase was a little rough, but other than that, it was fine. I was like, oh man, I was like, this is clunk, clunk, clunk. Is it like a
(40:09) Mallory Lee:
Caravan of people that are also doing the same thing?
(40:12) Shannon Curran:
Luckily it was like a boutique hotel. I was on the top floor, so the fifth floor was the top floor. So it was not awful, awful. It was like one of the boutique hotels in SF that's attached to a restaurant. So funniest part was I had to go through the restaurant to get to the stairs. So I literally am in the morning in my workout clothes, walking into a restaurant at 6:00 AM. Whatever. I was like, "This is so silly." You're
(40:36) Mallory Lee:
Making the best of all things.
(40:38) Shannon Curran:
Yeah. One of my dogs rolled in something dead yesterday, ran in the house, and Pete's running after her trying to clean her. He comes back out in a bathing suit. I'm like, "What are you doing?" He goes like, "She needs to take a bath." And he's running into the backyard. I'm like, "You just have to laugh. This is absurd." You know what I mean? You just have to laugh. The things that are important are great. So that is all that matters. That's about the small stuff. Well, good for you. Good for you. Thanks. Next week I'll be like, but I feel pretty good.
(41:10) Mallory Lee:
Next week, next hour. Who knows? Next two
(41:14) Shannon Curran:
Minutes. Yeah, exactly. I know. Well, this has been fabulous. I love a Friday pod session with you, Mal.
(41:20) Mallory Lee:
Well, thanks for hanging out.
(41:21) Shannon Curran:
Okay.
(41:22) Mallory Lee:
Bye. Peace. Bye.
(41:24) Shannon Curran:
Thanks for listening to Full Stack Moms.
(41:27) Mallory Lee:
We'll be back with more episodes that help you see you're not crazy and you're not alone. If we might be your people, please make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Someone at the gym asked me what our plan is for season one, season two dynamic.
(41:47) Shannon Curran:
Yeah. I feel like it's weird with the podcast. It's only if we want to take breaks, I feel like. That's what the seasons are built for is that you get a break in between.
(41:56) Mallory Lee:
What if during your off time, people are just kind of like, bye, forever. Okay. Same page.
(42:03) Shannon Curran:
Yeah. I'm glad we've cleared that up. No, you don't get four weeks off.