Lion Counseling Podcast

🎙️ Episode 50 – The Inner Critic Behind High Achievement—and Why Success Can Feel Lonely | A Lion Legacy Conversation with Matt Anderson

What if your drive to succeed isn’t actually about winning—but about belonging?

In this powerful Lion Legacy Conversation, Mark Odland sits down with strategist, coach, and author Matt Andersonto explore the hidden emotional cost of high achievement. Together, they unpack how work ethic, discipline, and success—while valuable—can quietly become substitutes for connection, love, and acceptance.

At the center of the conversation is a haunting moment from Matt’s past, when a mentor listened to his long list of accomplishments and simply replied: “That sounds lonely.” That single sentence cracked something open—and set Matt on a different path.
This episode is for men who carry responsibility well, perform under pressure, and still feel an ache they can’t quite name.

In this episode, you’ll learn:
  • Why many high-achieving men are driven by an unrelenting inner critic
  • The difference between an “achievement story” and a real life story
  • How comparison and performance can quietly lead to isolation
  • Why acceptance doesn’t kill ambition—but actually purifies it
  • How healing happens in relationship, not in isolation
  • What it means to stop competing and start contributing
This conversation is thoughtful, honest, and deeply human—an invitation to rethink strength, success, and what it really means to leave a legacy.

Matthew M. Anderson is the author of Being Super Human (2025) and Running Mate (2013). He is a Black Belt in Karate, an ordained pastor, and an international speaker and leadership coach who has spent over two decades developing leaders in the non-profit, government, and public sectors. The founder of The Kindness Initiative and Surprise Church Bismarck, Matt has coached hundreds of leaders and spoken to thousands around the world out of his passion to help individuals and teams live up to their immense potential. Matt lives in Bismarck with his wife Lacee and their three kids. 

Matt Anderson’s Contact Information:
Website: matthewmanderson.com
Book: https://www.amazon.com/Being-Super-Human-Critic-Heroic-ebook/dp/B0FSYBGP64
Ted Talk: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/#inbox/FMfcgzQfBZdVqClfZkCrXmplcJllcxvV?projector=1

📘 Free e-Book and Weekly Tools for Men
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

📚 Books by Mark Odland
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Book a Free Consult with Lion Counseling
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’
About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast is for men who want to break free from anxiety, burnout, anger, and the quiet weight of unmet expectations. Hosted by Mark Odland—licensed marriage and family therapist and EMDR-certified clinician—the show integrates psychology, masculinity, and Christian faith to help men heal deeply, lead courageously, and build lives of meaning and legacy.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.

Creators and Guests

Host
Mark Odland
Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Matt Anderson:

Lot of that's how the soul heart work you do with a supervisor who is kind of mentoring you and coaching Right. So I was talking with mine and going through my life story and I was bragging about work ethic. Like I was almost in my head was trying to impress him with what a hard worker I am. Of winning, trying to win approval through a biography of, you know, look at all this Rocky Balboa effort. And I just remember the more I talked, less impressed he looked.

Matt Anderson:

The more sad he looked. The more, not disappointed but just kind of utterly unimpressed. And after I got done reciting all my morning workouts and all my four point zero school years and all my scholarships and he just asked for my life story. He didn't ask for my achievement story. I didn't know there was

Mark Odland:

a difference. Yeah, interesting.

Matt Anderson:

And so I got done and he took a sigh and looked at me and said, That sounds lonely.

Mark Odland:

Wow. And

Matt Anderson:

something just unlocked in me something kind of broken me and I just started weeping thing. It it just broke me all the moments I thought I was figuring things out and fixing the hole in me, trying to master life, I was compensating for what I really wanted, which was human beings and love and connection and approval and support and belonging. I don't you cannot find a high achiever who at the bottom of the barrel isn't actually longing for something else.

Mark Odland:

Welcome everyone to the Lion Counseling Podcast. I'm Mark Oddland, licensed marriage and family therapist and certified EMDR therapist. And our mission is to help men to break free, to heal deep, and to become the lions God created them to be. Today, I'm honored to welcome my guest, Matt Anderson. He's a strategist, a coach, and a leader who spent his career helping organizations and build teams that thrive under pressure by unlocking the power of relationships and human potential.

Mark Odland:

But beyond the business metrics, Matt knows something we all wrestle with, carrying the weight of responsibility and wrestling with that inner critic that whispers that we're never good enough. Those voices don't just challenge performance. If left unchecked, they can crush the soul. In this conversation, we're diving into why that trap feels so inescapable sometimes, but how there is truly a way out. Let's get into it.

Mark Odland:

Alright. Matt Anderson, welcome to the Lion Counseling Podcast.

Matt Anderson:

Glad to be here, Mark. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Well, this

Mark Odland:

is so cool. I know a lot of our listeners, you know, they it's an interesting bunch. Right? So we've got we've got entrepreneurs. We've got executives.

Mark Odland:

We've got professionals. A lot of guys who are just really trying to, I don't know, be good providers, protectors of their family, but also our core values at Lion are being creative, loving, well, leaving a legacy. Right? And so, we tend to attract guys, not all guys, you know, but a lot of guys are are are men of faith as well and trying to figure out how do we do this? How do we, how do we do this life?

Mark Odland:

How do we have healthy relationships? How do we excel in our personal lives and our professions? And in a minute, I want to hear about kind of where you're at now. Know Matt, I had the privilege of kind of taking a sneak peek at your new book that's out and I'm really excited to hear about that and and kind of what what that means for people who might could benefit and be blessed by that. But it's funny because as we've talked, you know, when I think of Matt Anderson, I think of the little hole in the wall, weight room at the seminary where we first it was like me and you and was it Dan, the other guy?

Mark Odland:

It's like, there's just well, there were a lot of guys in there pumping iron, but I'm like, okay. Okay. Got my respect. He's he's working hard in here. And then later, I find out, I'm like, it felt like a blast from the past because we actually both played basketball with him about just a you know, you just very close to each other, and we probably played each other in high school and didn't even didn't even know it.

Mark Odland:

And and

Matt Anderson:

then I

Mark Odland:

find out you're a black belt. Black is this Taekwondo?

Matt Anderson:

It's Shotokan Karate.

Mark Odland:

Shotokan. That awesome, man. I saw that on LinkedIn the other day, and I'm like, I do jiu jitsu. So Oh, cool. So I'm like, alright.

Mark Odland:

Fellow martial arts guy. So we got some good good things in common here, but maybe maybe we could just kick it off with you just sharing with with our guys who you are, kind of where you're Yep. Where you're at the journey and kind of what you're what you're excited about right now with I I know there's the book. I know there's the the coaching and I don't know. I I wanna hear all about it, Matt.

Mark Odland:

So

Matt Anderson:

Sounds great. Yeah. I grew up in Central Minnesota on a farm. I was a farm kid. And we were when we weren't in the field picking rocks and baling hay, I was doing sports.

Matt Anderson:

So up in a family where hard work and kind of achievement was really, really important. Loving, kind, caring, but somewhat distant because everybody was kind of busy doing their own thing. And I kind of grew up with this achievement orientation where I just thought if I can accomplish something great, I will eventually win affection and relationships and success will come and all the good things along with it. So I grew up sort of with a plan for how to engage the world that related to achievement then the that come from that. Kind of a transactional way of looking at life in some ways, in some ways naive because I didn't really understand a lot of the nuances that need to be there for a healthy family, healthy relationships and things like that.

Matt Anderson:

That I would have to learn along the way or struggle trying. And played college sports and did discover sort of a teaching gift. Wasn't sure what to do with it and so I started studying to be a teacher, a history teacher, social studies, and always really enjoyed kind of like the history aspect of things. But over the course of college, I started to, you know, my grandpa really had an influence on me. He was a pastor and so he just spoke a lot of life into my journey and challenged me to grow in some ways, but also gave me a different view of life that wasn't achievement oriented, was connection oriented.

Matt Anderson:

That planted seeds in my life that I really needed. I think if you only have a cutthroat, if you're a successful business person, if you're a hardcore achiever, you can only thrive on that so long before your soul just gets too thirsty for something else. Yeah. Having people that model a bit of a connective, relational, accepting thing, I don't know what I would have done without that because I just needed people like that in my life. He's spoken up into my life and I sort of think about it, decided to be a pastor.

Matt Anderson:

I decided to kind of use that teaching gift to go into ministry and try to figure out how to make a big, huge impact on the world. Still with that achiever mindset, if can just do it this area, it'll achieve huge results and then all kinds of great things will happen. And over the course of my life, I've started to recognize more and more the importance of just the subtleties of relationships and how critical I like to call it the superpower of relationships is the secret sauce of everything. Yeah. And so I've started to work with teams outside the ministry world and leaders outside the ministry world as I've kind of uncovered achievement matters, excellence matters, but those things are sort of the tip of the iceberg that isn't just created by hard work, it's created by trust, it's created through vulnerability, it's created through teamwork, it's created through all the unmeasurable things that were in life.

Matt Anderson:

And so learning to take I've had you know, over time learn how to take a much different way of measuring things that are important besides does it get to a certain outcome or does it get to a certain achievement? And that kind of led to the writing the book and speaking and coaching I do just has to do with how can I help people learn from a lot of the mistakes I've made, not get hung up on some of the things that seem important but are often missing the point when it comes to relationships and teamwork? And then, you know, how do you get people unstuck when they are often stuck in a comparison mindset where we we often compare ourselves to other people. We compete with other people. Yep.

Matt Anderson:

But when we do that, we forget how to compliment and work together in relationship. Wow.

Mark Odland:

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome, man. I mean, it's did it feel like for you that because I'm guessing.

Mark Odland:

I know I know you're a bright guy. I think I've heard you speak you're a charismatic speaker. And but it's interesting. Even if you're grounded in say a philosophy or a theology that understands the importance of relationship. I've had my own kind of version of that too.

Mark Odland:

It sounds like there is still this sense of you're still trying to trapped in that competitive performance based world. And my guess is you've got a lot of good results from it too. But maybe, but like you said, the thirsty soul thing. So there's a tipping point. And I guess for you, is that like an moment or was it just kind of the slow awakening of like something needs to shift here or how can I Yeah?

Mark Odland:

Because I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I imagine you're seeing it in yourself, but you're also seeing it as this thing that this this messaging to get out to other people. Yeah. At the same time. So I'm just curious about that for you, you personally.

Matt Anderson:

Yeah. Think it was sort of an ever ever deepening series of moments where I that I can't go on like that and I'm missing something. Yeah. And yet I didn't realize how deep that went. One example was, and I talk about this in the book.

Matt Anderson:

Yeah. The example is I was working in, well, probably did it, CPE, Clinical Path to Rehabilitation during the seminary where we had to go and spend a whole summer full time as a chaplain at a hospital visiting patients, counseling patients that you're probably never going to see again, but getting really deep into their life real quick and then popping in and out of the hospital room and end of life moments, all that. But a lot of that's the sole heart work you do with a supervisor who is kind of mentoring you and coaching Right. So I was talking with mine and going through my life story and I was bragging about work ethic. Like I was almost in my head was trying to impress him with what a hard worker I am.

Matt Anderson:

Kind of winning, trying to win approval through a biography of, you know, look at all this Rocky Balboa effort. And I just remember the more I talked, the less impressed he looked. The more sad he looked, the more not disappointed but just kind of utterly unimpressed. And after I got done reciting all my morning workouts and all my four point zero school years and all my scholarships and he just asked for my life story. He didn't ask for my achievement story.

Matt Anderson:

I didn't know

Mark Odland:

there was a difference. Yeah, interesting.

Matt Anderson:

And so he got I got done and he took a sigh and looked at me and said, that sounds lonely. Wow. Oh, man. And something just unlocked in me, something kind of broke in me and I just started weeping. Dang.

Matt Anderson:

It just broke me. All the moments I thought I was figuring things out and fixing the hole in me, trying to trying to master life, I was compensating for what I really wanted, which was human beings and love and connection and approval and support and belonging. You cannot find a high achiever who at the bottom of the barrel isn't actually longing for something else than what they are striving for. They are striving for a reason. They want connection, They want approval.

Matt Anderson:

And they believe, we believe the best way we can do that is through achievement. Now, there's been a that was one moment and then I started to have other moments where I'm still kind of doing that. I thought I learned my lesson, but I'm still learning how to apply it to new areas and recognize the actual depth of what that urge, instinct, and how all the different parts and pieces of life. That means that you love your kids and you demand respect from your kids, but your relationship also is going to include them screwing up and not respecting you. And it isn't about you being a perfect parent, but finding a way to connect through the moments when they're not behaving and when they're not being the perfect kid that proves that you're the perfect parent.

Matt Anderson:

So it flashes into all these different areas. What I learned, and this is the book, what I learned writing this was, or what I channeled from my past kind of lessons writing this was all that stuff, all the determined focused effort to be something great often comes from a root of self hate. I am not acceptable unless X. I am not lovable unless X. And if I don't, then I am not.

Matt Anderson:

So I started to recognize how much of my motivation is rooted out of a lack of self acceptance and how common that is for people that are driven. Yeah. And when you're operating out of self acceptance, the fear might be, well, I'm not going to be a great achiever. I'm not going to if I just accept myself, I'm not going to lose my drive. It's actually the opposite.

Matt Anderson:

When we accept and embrace the superhuman being that God created us to be, we operate in our lane. We're not trying to go through life trying to be like or surpass someone else. And we're able to also embrace the people around us that suddenly finally can take a sigh of relief and feel good enough in our presence when otherwise what radiates from often high achievers and high performers is this pressure and intensity where others don't feel accepted either because you haven't learned how to accept yourself. You know? Wow.

Mark Odland:

That is that is powerful, Matt. Yeah. Go ahead. I think you had a final thought there.

Matt Anderson:

Yeah. I I call it the inner critic in the book.

Mark Odland:

The Okay.

Matt Anderson:

The voice inside that says, you're not good enough as you are. You're not like that person. And it thrives on self comparison to other people. And the fundamental question in the book is why go through life doing an average impression of someone else when there will never ever be another you? And what would the world miss if it never actually got the you that will never exist again?

Matt Anderson:

And wouldn't it be a tragedy if I go through my life trying to please or, imitate someone else who seems successful or respectable without trying to figure out this unique package that I am and figure out how to share that with the world in a generous way. So

Mark Odland:

Oh, wow. That is thank you so much, man. I mean, that is just such a on one hand, I could I could imagine my audience, a big percentage of them just having this sigh of relief. Like, man. Yeah.

Mark Odland:

Like, if that could be true, if, like, I could be deeply loved and oak like, somehow okay in who I am even in the midst of, like, my imperfection, my messiness, and this goal hasn't been met yet. And I haven't reached this financial goal or this business goal or this workout goal.

Matt Anderson:

Yep.

Mark Odland:

And so I could see I imagine, you know, hundreds of guys are just like, they take a deep breath and their shoulders drop a little bit. Wow. What if that could be true? Yeah. And then I think about another percentage of guys listening.

Mark Odland:

And this I know I know you know this. We know this, that this comes up in theology too, in in religion, is this sense of this acceptance, this grace, however you wanna define it, it almost feels too good to be true. It's like if I if I really just love myself, man, I'm just gonna turn to this lazy bum.

Matt Anderson:

Mhmm.

Mark Odland:

It's gonna just sit around and let go of all my ambition and be a slacker, and then my wife's gonna stop respecting me, and then people are gonna you know, it's like this this avalanche of negative thinking.

Matt Anderson:

Yeah.

Mark Odland:

And so I think it's hard to not that it's a binary kind of thing, but it is a paradoxical kind of thing for guys to step into and try to make sense of. Right? So I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, but I could definitely see And I see it within myself too. Right? Like that same tension.

Matt Anderson:

I see it as just two little, two different levels of consciousness. On the one level, intellectually, I can acknowledge something to be true that has to do with we are relational beings and we must prioritize self and other acceptance. We should not try to achieve relationship by drawing people to our achievements. I understand that intellectually. But if you have high capacity where you have the mirage of doing so is in the horizon, you can see how it could happen, you can see how your skills and your intelligence or your looks or your your your ability to manage systems and wealth, you can you can see in the horizon a not too distant possibility where it seems realistic for you.

Matt Anderson:

And so when I started to develop and this is also partly because as a pastor, as a leader, I see the needs of people. I see how maybe the average person might be hardwired, and I think this is true for them, and I wanna apply it to them, but somehow it doesn't apply to me. I have to be at a different level. I have to be the one that maybe meets those needs for people while on my level I to live in that cutthroat world for some reason. Right.

Matt Anderson:

And in some ways, for me, it's like how do I actually bring these two worlds together to admit that I don't it's not healthy for me to try to live on this separate plane. Why do I feel like I have to be exceptional in a way that only in the end exhausts me? And what would it look like to get off the self righteous or the the self entitled savior high horse and come back down to where everybody else is and recognize that it isn't sacrificing something that I need to be okay, but actually self preservation and self acceptance to say we're all just human beings, uniquely created. And instead of looking at people that don't have that drive with some sort of pity or disdain, I've started to really appreciate and kind of want to emulate that more and more. Like, wow, that person I know people who just, they wake up in the morning and they just are proud to go through their day and happy to do their thing and don't feel this competitive need like I've tended to have.

Matt Anderson:

And so I've started to actually respect that more. When I'm around people, I like being around successful achiever type people, but when I'm around them, feel less competitive toward them, less a need to to to prove myself around them, and sometimes even more pity because I know what that's like, and I know how that can just, in the end, drive you nuts.

Mark Odland:

Yes. Man. Well, I mean, I think there's I appreciate you you sharing that because it speaks to the guy who's saying, okay. I guess I should feel guilty about working too hard. What's the bare minimum I can, like, let go of at work to kinda say I'm relational or to do a little bit?

Mark Odland:

But it's like, it you're still in that you're still in that, like, what they call, you know, through that religious lens under the law. You're still under that weight, that pressure of, like, being caught in this competitive game where our worth is all tied up in it. Right? And so the idea that, like, what if it could be true? What if it is true that, yes, this is a competitive world, but the actual design of creation is relational.

Mark Odland:

Like, that that is kind of, like, I think something for our guys to really chew on and really take seriously because, I mean, you know, some some of the guys who listen to this are car car guys. I'm not like a big car guy, but some are, like, really big car guys. And it's like, if you are putting diesel gasoline in a car that's meant to go unleaded, you're not gonna get very far. You're you're you're not priming the thing for what it was designed to do. Right?

Mark Odland:

You're not giving it its best shot at fulfilling its purpose for for which it was created, right, is to to drive. To and we're created for a purpose. Right? And and it sounds like that's one of your passions, Matt, is just like helping people to to tap into this miraculous reality that that we are created unique and that if we that was such a powerful quote. What something to the effect of if we bet kinda badly or imperfectly try to copy someone else's life essentially, then we're missing out on this this opportunity to actually be who we are, who god created us to be in this world.

Mark Odland:

Yeah. And my guess is that would take some some soul searching and some self reflection and maybe even facing some hard things like that moment where that wise supervisor said that sounds really lonely, and it struck a chord deep inside you and and something shifted, though. And I I wonder if part of strength you know, this is I'm kinda going off on a tangent here, but I think one of the things I talk about with my clients a lot and we talk a lot about on the podcast is we have to redefine strength and toughness a little bit that it's it's not just the the competitive side of things that I can see guys who can work eighty hour eighty hour weeks. On paper, they look super tough. They look super disciplined.

Mark Odland:

But when you ask them to face a hard feeling, be alone with their thoughts, sit in the silence, and just think, okay, god, you're here. I'm here. Oh, man. And not pour the big glass of scotch or not start scrolling. It's hard.

Mark Odland:

It's hard to to just be still and to to ponder these deeper things, but it just sounds like there's such an opportunity for for for love and relationship and and just kind of a sense of transformation breakthrough in someone's life if they're willing to do it. So I guess I'd be curious. I know we're we don't have a lot of time left, but do you find people when they start to internalize these ideas, it becomes like I don't know, like, they they they turn around and they're on a new course, or do you feel like they turn around, they fall down a while, then they get up, or they it's like, what's what does that look like for someone who who say they after this, they listen to this podcast, they go online, they pick up your book, they try to take the talk we had today. They they read the book. They're trying to put these things into action.

Mark Odland:

Yep. What what can they expect if they kind of take this, you know, this other pill like Morpheus? Do you really wanna know Neo? What's what's on the other side here? There's no going back.

Mark Odland:

What what is that what's that like for people?

Matt Anderson:

Well, one of the most important parts of it is my it might be the most uncomfortable, and that is really trying to recognize the parts that of of life, the the roles or functions that we're not good at and need help. You know, you think of a person at work that doesn't know how to use a certain software and sometimes they'll be like, that's a stupid program. I hate it. I hate using it. It's dumb.

Matt Anderson:

Instead of saying, just, I'm not good at it yet. I need help. I need training. I need coaching. Sure.

Matt Anderson:

Or someone in an accounting department might be really, really good with numbers but terrible at public speaking. And so they'll drag their feet getting a report done and try to delay it just because they don't want to do that executive presentation before the bigwigs and have to public speak. And when we learn to when we can be a part of a team on some level, whether this is your co parent, whether this is your work team, your family, or your sports team, when you learn to be a part of a team and you can be more comfortable in your own skin, recognize the things that you can offer the team on one hand and the things that you really suck at and need someone to compliment you on the other hand, that's a level of self acceptance I don't think a lot of people achieve. Yeah. It takes a team to do that though.

Matt Anderson:

You can't read the book, you can't take the journey and then continue the isolation because isolation tends to be the problem. Competition leads to isolation. Even if you are really good at winning people over, tend to be transactional relationships that leave you feeling alone. And so if you can learn how to be a part of, and this is a clumsy nonlinear stumbling process, a team where people learn how to be authentic, where they learn to really value their teammates for what they do well and what they don't do well. And then you can practice leaning on each other when you need each other informally and formally.

Matt Anderson:

That might lead to adjusted job descriptions and formal responsibilities, but it starts by saying, I'm not very good at this and I know you are. Could you help me? And if you ever need help with this, I just need you to know that I want to volunteer to help because I really love doing this and I'm good at this. That it's ideal in some kind of team setting where we get to practice and it's safe to practice and we're given permission to be vulnerable about what we do well, what we don't We do understand what we don't understand, what we're comfortable with, what we're uncomfortable with. And then you start to watch as when like the lead of a team starts to be vulnerable like that.

Matt Anderson:

I'm going to need you guys' help with that. The whole team just, oh, now I don't have to be perfect. Now I don't. I can admit mistakes. Now I can admit when I need training or just suck at something.

Matt Anderson:

And so the comparison game says I need to be like that person or that person. Well, they're different people and yet I feel like I need to be the best of both of them for some reason. But the being superhuman process is recognizing your humanity, including the different bar charts of your strengths and growth areas or even weaknesses that are never going to be strengths. Sure. And learning how to be vulnerable, upfront, honest with a community of people that can learn how to start being interdependent around that vulnerability.

Matt Anderson:

So the outcome of the book that I want everybody to come away with is you actually build a cape visual. Build a cape thing you put on your door, put on your social media that says, this is my superpower and it's not bragging, It's volunteering. It's how am I gifted? Which also means that I'm not gifted in any way, every single way, and I can't do everything. And then here's my kryptonite.

Matt Anderson:

Here's the things that I I need differently gifted people to to compliment me with. When a team leader sets that stage and gives a team permission, when team members start giving each other permission to not brag but be honest about their strengths so that they can volunteer, to not self hate but simply to be vulnerable about what they don't do well. You start to see people feel like it's okay to be themselves and then they start to trust each other. They start to stop pretending, stop competing and start contributing. And so it's really it has to be a team based endeavor.

Matt Anderson:

If isolation is the problem that we drive ourselves toward because of the drive, it you know, collaboration and teamwork is a solution that that can only come through walking that vulnerable, honest journey of self acceptance.

Mark Odland:

Yeah. So if I'm hearing you right, Matt, the the the way to become more relational and more vulnerable vulnerable isn't to do it all by yourself. I mean, I mean, because I could see people kinda go, okay. I'm gonna get my plan. I'm gonna do it all by myself.

Mark Odland:

I'm gonna become more relate I mean, it's like, you need a team. That's that's just I mean, so obvious as you say it, but it's like

Matt Anderson:

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really well said. And oftentimes our wounds come in relationship early, early on, which as a counselor or therapist, probably help people make So those connections the it isn't as though we came out of the womb a certain way necessarily. We might have grown up with an orientation or an injury or an area that was deficient in affection that we don't even know we're compensating for.

Matt Anderson:

Right. And so the solution to maybe some relational deficiency back here isn't hyper isolation and achievement over here. We get to heal in relationship. Right. We get to heal in our relationship with God.

Matt Anderson:

We get to heal in our relationship with people who remind us that it doesn't have to go the same way it did back then. In a healthy relationship, you get to travel back in time to heal now while we address those wounds through active partnership that plays out very, very differently. And suddenly emotionally, gravel back and finally that part of us gets to redevelop and heal and grow in an area we might've been stunted in because of that trauma or that experience, that deficiency. So I wish, sometimes I wish there was a shortcut around the long game of relationships to achieve great things and become the person you're meant to be. But we just weren't made to do it in isolation.

Matt Anderson:

We were, we would be a human pocket knife with every tool, gift and ability we needed all set. But it's so funny. We're made more like a puzzle piece than a pocket knife. Yeah. Without the other puzzle pieces, it just doesn't make make sense, and I'm just hanging out there.

Mark Odland:

That's right, man. Yeah. I mean, it's in for our our Christian listeners out there. I mean, that that metaphor of the body of Christ too. And we we all have different gifts, and it it doesn't it doesn't work so well if we try to be something we're not.

Mark Odland:

It just it it really doesn't. It might work for a while for a season, but, again, I come back to that powerful metaphor of the the soul being thirsty. And I see that so often in my practice. And I think you're it's very wise to see that that wisdom in being able to heal from the past if there are wounds there while simultaneously engaging, taking those risks, and and and kind of intentionally being in relationship and having support through that process. Wow.

Mark Odland:

Well, Matt, I I we could talk for hours, but I know, you're a busy man and and have more obligations the rest of the day. But, if people want to, check out the book, that'll be in the show notes. Right? So really excited. Congratulations, by the way.

Mark Odland:

That's that's a that's a great contribution and blessing for people. If they want to yeah. You're welcome. And if they want to, have more of a personal, connection with your professional services, what what do you offer, and how do they find you?

Matt Anderson:

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, the book is good place to start. A couple of different ways that I'm trying to use the book or just relate to folks to support and help and provide, you know, whatever encouragement I can. I do kind of a range of things from, you know, a keynote, you know, a lot of times a conference is looking for a home run talk that sends people home with wind in their sails. I'm like, well, yeah, I can do that.

Matt Anderson:

I like the public speaking. I love keynote addresses but I really try to do it and not just to make people feel good but to really give them something to take home and think about. So I do a lot of conference speaking keynote addresses. I do staff workshops where a staff is trying to increase collaboration, become more vulnerable, be better able to, know, everyone's hired for a different reason for a different position. We get that when it comes to job descriptions, don't always get that when it comes to relationships in the workplace.

Matt Anderson:

And so my Ted Talk was about the shocking superpower of relationships. And I do a lot of work to help staffs collaborate more effectively, work through conflict and that sort of thing. Nice. And then I had a lot to do with individual and group coaching that has to do, sometimes it's really a lot of professional X and Os but a lot of times it's the deeper stuff that gets into how do I or how do we work through our own things to be the better leader player. And so it's great in an individual setting because you really pay attention to someone's specific journey.

Matt Anderson:

But sometimes when you have like a cohort that does it together, you really learn from each other in a way which fits really well with that relational mindset too. So that's kind of the range of things I love to do. I just, sometimes people just give me a call and then we find kind of which peak makes sense for where they're at. Yeah, they can email me based on what I sent in the show notes. You can find my webpage where the book is.

Matt Anderson:

You can get ahold of me that way. And, yeah. I just I just love helping folks however I can.

Mark Odland:

That's so awesome, Matt. Well, thank you. Thank you for being a guest on the podcast and for letting people know about these powerful concepts and and the powerful services you provide and this this wonderful book that's out. Encourage you guys all to check it out. I I'm curious, Matt.

Mark Odland:

Are you in North Dakota right now?

Matt Anderson:

I am in North Dakota. What is

Mark Odland:

the temperature in this moment?

Matt Anderson:

My Alexa my Alexa told me it was, like, six below this morning. What?

Mark Odland:

I thought it'd be colder. Here in Duluth, it was 26 below zero this morning.

Matt Anderson:

Oh, you know what? It is double digits below. Now it says 19 below.

Mark Odland:

Dang. Well, hey, Warren. I

Matt Anderson:

was getting gas yesterday and it it was like thirty, forty mile an hour winds. And the gas, the pump machine was too slow. It was too cold to read my credit card. The gas hoses were stuck together on the pump and the wind was blowing and I didn't have winter clothes. I just had like a small jacket And I had to give up and drive home with no gas left hardly because it was so it was the coldest I've It ever felt in my was probably 60 below with the wind chill.

Matt Anderson:

I just about died.

Mark Odland:

Oh, man. Well, what you just said there, that's a good that's a good metaphor for your next book, I think. You know? It's like, you try to do it alone. It's like sludgy gas.

Mark Odland:

It's not even moving through the, you know, I mean alright.

Matt Anderson:

But The frostbite of isolation.

Mark Odland:

There we go. Well, as always, thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed what you know, the content, Align Counseling Podcast, hey. You're still here. Might as well subscribe.

Mark Odland:

Like, throw it on a comment. We'd love to hear what you think. We we still try to answer all the comments when we can. And and if you're interested in reaching out to Lion Counseling, check us out at escapethecagenow.com. And with that, thank you again, Matt Anderson.

Mark Odland:

It's been awesome talking to you. Hopefully, we can do it again soon.

Matt Anderson:

Thanks, Mark. Great to be with you and let's do it again. All right. Take care.