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We’re Jason and Caroline Zook, a husband and wife team running two businesses together and trying to live out our version of a good life in the process. In this business podcast, we share with you our lessons learned about how to run a calm, sustainable business—one that is predictable, profitable AND peaceful. Join us every Thursday if you’re an online creator who wants to reach your goals without sacrificing your well-being in the process.
[00:00:00] Caroline: Welcome to Growing Steady, the show where we help online creators like you build a Calm business, one that's predictable, profitable, and peaceful. We're your hosts, Jason and Caroline Zook, and we run Wandering Aimfully, an Un-Boring Business Coaching Program and Teachery, an online course platform for designers. Join us each week as we help you reach your business goals without sacrificing your well-being in the process. Slow and steady is the way we do things around here, baby.
[00:00:29] Jason: All right, cinnamon rollers, that's you. Let's get into the show. Well, hello, and welcome to the podcast. Pretty excited for the preamble today, because...
[00:00:42] Caroline: I know you are.
[00:00:42] Jason: ...I don't know what it is.
[00:00:43] Caroline: I know.
[00:00:44] Jason: ...but I do know what it is.
[00:00:45] Caroline: Yes.
[00:00:45] Jason: If that makes sense.
[00:00:47] Caroline: And you love surprises, but you also love to spoil surprises.
[00:00:51] Jason: This is true. Also, it's baking day today, and I've got a new bake that I have never made before. And I think these are from the recipes I looked up. They stem back to a Ukrainian recipe.
[00:01:01] Caroline: Okay.
[00:01:01] Jason: It's a poppy seed roll.
[00:01:03] Caroline: Okay.
[00:01:04] Jason: But it's like a cinnamon roll. But imagine instead of the cinnamon sugar filling, you do a poppy seed filling. And the poppy seeds are with condensed milk, which I've never used before in my life.
[00:01:12] Caroline: Interesting. Does that...
[00:01:12] Jason: But, boy, is condensed milk a calorie bomb.
[00:01:15] Caroline: Yeah.
[00:01:15] Jason: It is wildly sweet.
[00:01:15] Caroline: I don't need to know that. But is it like an icing, like a poppy seed icing? That's what you're doing with the condensed milk?
[00:01:21] Jason: Kind of, but it's on the inside. On the inside.
[00:01:23] Caroline: Oh.
[00:01:23] Jason: Think of the cinnamon sugar filling that goes on the inside of a cinnamon roll.
[00:01:26] Caroline: There's no topping?
[00:01:27] Jason: There's no topping. Yeah.
[00:01:28] Caroline: Are you sure?
[00:01:28] Jason: Yeah. There's an egg wash. You do an egg wash on top. Yeah.
[00:01:30] Caroline: An egg wash. Well, it makes sense if you think about it, because you're combining a cinnamon roll, which is your favorite of favorites.
[00:01:36] Jason: Yeah.
[00:01:36] Caroline: With a lemon poppy seed muffin, which is your second favorite.
[00:01:39] Jason: Now, there's no lemon in here, but I'm very excited.
[00:01:42] Caroline: Oh.
[00:01:42] Jason: No, there's no lemon. This is just straight up...
[00:01:44] Caroline: This whole time you've been talking about this poppy seed thing. And in my mind...
[00:01:46] Jason: You've had. Yeah.
[00:01:47] Caroline: ...those flavors are so inextricably lame.
[00:01:49] Jason: If there's one food item from the grocery store in the United States of America that I do miss...
[00:01:55] Caroline: They miss.
[00:01:55] Jason: ...it is the, they're always the same, and like every grocery store...
[00:01:58] Caroline: They're too big.
[00:01:59] Jason: ...they're the big fat boy...
[00:02:00] Caroline: With the crusty sugar...
[00:02:00] Jason: ...lemon poppy seed muffins with the crunchy sugar on top. And they're just so big.
[00:02:06] Caroline: They're so plump. And you love them.
[00:02:08] Jason: Yeah. They're delicious. They're 738 calories per muffin, and you can't eat less than three in one sitting. And then that's your food for the day. All right, let's get into the preamble. Your side of things.
[00:02:18] Caroline: My side of things. So, by popular request, and by popular, I mean just Jason. Jason requested this.
[00:02:23] Jason: Well, it's not just me.
[00:02:25] Caroline: It's not just you, what?
[00:02:26] Jason: It's also you.
[00:02:27] Caroline: What about me?
[00:02:28] Jason: That you brought this into our lives.
[00:02:29] Caroline: I did.
[00:02:30] Jason: Yeah.
[00:02:30] Caroline: So, Jason is not on TikTok.
[00:02:32] Jason: Right.
[00:02:32] Caroline: I, as we'll talk about in this episode, imagine I went into a time capsule, and I came out, and people were like, "Oh, there's TikTok." During the pandemic, I wasn't on TikTok. So anyway, I'm very new to TikTok. Right?
[00:02:44] Jason: Yeah.
[00:02:44] Caroline: So, I just started paying attention to it this year when we were thinking about going back on for Teachery. And that's the only reason I do it. I'm still not on there very much, but I scroll it for about 10 minutes at the end of my day and first thing in the morning. Okay, so those are to cap my day.
[00:02:59] Jason: But we can show the receipts. I think your total screen time was like 28 minutes between...
[00:03:03] Caroline: Yes, I do not spend a lot of time on it.
[00:03:04] Jason: ...Instagram and TikTok.
[00:03:05] Caroline: But I like that because I feel like in that small window of time, you just get what's bubbling, a glimpse.
[00:03:11] Jason: The glimpse, you get the glimpse.
[00:03:12] Caroline: You just get enough of a glimpse of what's going on before I really get sucked in and start feeling like, we call it brain candy, where you just feel sick to your stomach, because you had too much brain candy.
[00:03:24] Jason: Yeah. Sometimes I'll come downstairs, and I'll be like, "Are you eating candy right now?" You're like, "Yes, I'm just finishing my candy."
[00:03:30] Caroline: Okay, well, that could have been actually one for this.
[00:03:32] Jason: That could have been one, yeah.
[00:03:33] Caroline: So, a couple weeks ago, and I think it has spilled over to Instagram now, but I saw the couple's dictionary, or the sister's dictionary. So, it's like these sort of inside phrases that get traded among couples or family members that mean nothing to outsiders probably...
[00:03:47] Jason: Right.
[00:03:47] Caroline: ...but they just stick for some reason.
[00:03:49] Jason: Yeah.
[00:03:49] Caroline: And so, I told you about this, and you thought it'd be fun. Now, I've had a hard time actually thinking of them because it's very hard to, off the top of your head...
[00:03:57] Jason: Just think of the thing. Yeah.
[00:03:59] Caroline: Yeah. It's like you're in 8th grade, writing in the back of someone's yearbook, trying to remember all your inside jokes from the year, and you're like, "Oh, we literally talk in code every day of my life, but for some reason, they're all not coming to."
[00:04:07] Jason: I'll give you one that I don't think is on your list, because we haven't said it in a long time.
[00:04:10] Caroline: Okay.
[00:04:10] Jason: Because you're...
[00:04:11] Caroline: No, I have a couple that are oldies. Okay.
[00:04:12] Jason: Oh, do you?
[00:04:13] Caroline: Most of them are more of the moment, but I do have a couple oldies. No, go ahead.
[00:04:17] Jason: What's the song to know how to put the curtains up and down? Go ahead, go ahead.
[00:04:24] Caroline: Front is up and back is down. Front is up and back is down. That was a good one. Yeah.
[00:04:28] Jason: Yeah. That's how you learn if you have a little curtain string. If you pull down the front...
[00:04:30] Caroline: That's the curtain string song. So, you're welcome.
[00:04:33] Jason: ...it's going to go up, and if you pull down in the back, it's going to go down.
[00:04:35] Caroline: That's a good one. So, I have a few. I don't know if we'll get through all of them, because I don't want this preamble to be so long.
[00:04:41] Jason: Well, we'll just go as quick as possible.
[00:04:43] Caroline: We'll just see. Okay. Okay. And again, maybe we can make this a recurring segment, because I think as the days, we're actually recording this a day after we normally record. And I was so grateful I had that extra day because I had so many good ones came to me.
[00:04:53] Jason: Nice.
[00:04:53] Caroline: Okay, so the first one in our couple's dictionary.
[00:04:56] Jason: Yeah.
[00:04:56] Caroline: Okay. This is what we say whenever we see any animal, which includes spiders and bugs.
[00:05:03] Jason: Oh, two things. We say two things.
[00:05:05] Caroline: Right. I actually have three possible.
[00:05:08] Jason: You have three.
[00:05:08] Caroline: But there's the most popular answer.
[00:05:10] Jason: Ola cao.
[00:05:11] Caroline: Ola cao.
[00:05:12] Jason: Ola cao, which in Portuguese is like, "Hello, dog." Yeah. It's like, "Hi, dog."
[00:05:15] Caroline: Hi, dog. Yeah, but, I mean, it could be like a spider that we need to escort outside, and both of us are waving at it, saying, "Ola cao."
[00:05:22] Jason: "Ola cao."
[00:05:23] Caroline: Okay, so that's the most...
[00:05:24] Jason: Yeah, second most.
[00:05:25] Caroline: The second most. Go ahead.
[00:05:27] Jason: He's a dog.
[00:05:27] Caroline: He's a dog.
[00:05:28] Jason: He's a dog.
[00:05:28] Caroline: Correct.
[00:05:29] Jason: It could be a horse. I like to do with birds most often. It be like, "Oh, he's a dog."
[00:05:33] Caroline: He's a dog. And then sometimes you do sort of a spin on he's a dog.
[00:05:37] Jason: Yeah.
[00:05:38] Caroline: And what's that?
[00:05:38] Jason: Ooh, what is that?
[00:05:39] Caroline: It's like a little flare on that one.
[00:05:42] Jason: Oh.
[00:05:42] Caroline: So, instead of saying, "He's a dog", you say, "He's a", you can say it like that, "He's a."
[00:05:47] Jason: He's a good boy?
[00:05:48] Caroline: No.
[00:05:48] Jason: No? What is it?
[00:05:50] Caroline: He's a doge.
[00:05:50] Jason: 2 Oh, he's a doge.
[00:05:50] Caroline: He's a doge. He's a doge.
[00:05:52] Jason: Yeah. That's usually only for dogs, though.
[00:05:55] Caroline: Okay.
[00:05:55] Jason: That's mostly reserved just for dogs, which is why I got...
[00:05:57] Caroline: Okay. No, I didn't notice that.
[00:05:57] Jason: ...tripped up, because in my brain index.
[00:06:00] Caroline: So, everything else is a dog.
[00:06:03] Jason: Everything's a dog.
[00:06:03] Caroline: But except for dogs, which are doges.
[00:06:05] Jason: Exactly.
[00:06:05] Caroline: Okay. So that's actually how...
[00:06:06] Jason: Especially birds. Birds are definitely dogs.
[00:06:08] Caroline: You've said that. You've mentioned that the birds are definitely...
[00:06:10] Jason: Yeah. Like we see the seagulls we go on our daily walk and then...
[00:06:11] Caroline: Oh, he's a dog.
[00:06:12] Jason: Oh, look at those dogs.
[00:06:13] Caroline: Look at those dogs.
[00:06:13] Jason: Yeah.
[00:06:14] Caroline: Okay, so the next one is a phrase that we always say when we're presenting something to the other person.
[00:06:20] Jason: Yeah.
[00:06:21] Caroline: Okay.
[00:06:21] Jason: Chef, today I prepared for you.
[00:06:24] Caroline: So, it started as when you're making food for the other person.
[00:06:26] Jason: Which you should do as a couple, for sure.
[00:06:28] Caroline: You should do. When you bring the plate over, you say...
[00:06:30] Jason: Don't say like, "Oh, here's spaghetti meatballs." Say...
[00:06:32] Caroline: Well, first of all, no, I guarantee you nobody says what they're doing. Yeah.
[00:06:36] Jason: "Here it is." You just look at it and you know it's food.
[00:06:37] Caroline: No, but at our house, you say, "Chef today prepared for you."
[00:06:40] Jason: "Chef today prepared for you." Yeah.
[00:06:40] Caroline: And then you say what it is. Now, this has now become, I'm showing you a presentation on the big screen for the business.
[00:06:46] Jason: Yeah.
[00:06:47] Caroline: And it's like something I put together, chef, today I prepared for you.
[00:06:49] Jason: Or like a design for Wandering Aimfully. Like, "Hey, let me show you the new homepage. I design in Framer." And you'll put it on the big screen, and...
[00:06:55] Caroline: And he will not move forward.
[00:06:56] Jason: I won't. You'll be like, "Okay, so here's what I was thinking." I'm like, "I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on." And you're like, "We're in Framer. We don't have to do the thing." And I cannot move forward mentally until you help me get ready. And you go, "Chef, today I prepared for you." And I go, "Okay, great, I'm ready. Here we are."
[00:07:09] Caroline: That's a good one.
[00:07:10] Jason: Yeah.
[00:07:10] Caroline: Okay.
[00:07:11] Jason: Also, right on the cusp of season three of The Bear, which we haven't started watching yet.
[00:07:14] Caroline: I know. We're going to. This is very timely. This is a one word that you text me when you find something that I've left half assed.
[00:07:24] Jason: I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. Huh? Which happened this morning.
[00:07:31] Caroline: Either I stopped in the middle of a task, or I left something somewhere that it doesn't belong, or I put something of mine in your zone.
[00:07:39] Jason: Yeah.
[00:07:40] Caroline: Because we have zones. Not like formal zones, but his side of the bed or his area of the couch, whatever. And I leave something there and I just get a text message with a photo usually.
[00:07:49] Jason: Yes, always a photo.
[00:07:49] Caroline: And it just says...
[00:07:50] Jason: Huh?
[00:07:51] Caroline: ..."Huh?"
[00:07:51] Jason: Yeah. Today I found the lost set of AirPods that went missing about a month ago.
[00:07:57] Caroline: It was...
[00:07:57] Jason: That were under the mattress, in the bed.
[00:08:00] Caroline: No, no.
[00:08:00] Jason: Somehow, they were under the mattress. And you might be asking yourself, "Jason, what were you doing moving the mattresses?" Every six months, I have a recurring calendar reminder to rotate our mattresses...
[00:08:09] Caroline: ...
...so that they don't get wilty in some spots and, gross.
Right. So that's actually...
[00:08:14] Jason: Pro tip.
[00:08:14] Caroline: I didn't know that that's what you did. So, I need to be prepared that tonight when I sleep, I'll be different.
[00:08:19] Jason: It's going to feel a little bit different. Yeah. Okay.
[00:08:21] Caroline: First of all, the great AirPod cape of 2024.
[00:08:24] Jason: Yeah.
[00:08:24] Caroline: I don't know how they got there.
[00:08:26] Jason: You have upgraded until Christmas.
[00:08:27] Caroline: Oh, yeah. An embarrassment of riches.
[00:08:29] Jason: Yeah.
[00:08:30] Caroline: Okay, so that's a good one.
[00:08:31] Jason: I also did a, "Huh?", the other day when you left the key in the front of the door, not in the back of the door where you lock it, you left it in the front. And the door was basically just with the key there all night.
[00:08:40] Caroline: I'm going to be honest, Jason does not get a lot of me texting him, "Huh?"
[00:08:43] Jason: I'd say never.
[00:08:44] Caroline: I get a lot of texts from Jason that say, "Huh?" This was a choice. Oh, that was a good one.
[00:08:50] Jason: What?
[00:08:51] Caroline: That just reminded me of one. I'm going off the cuff now...
[00:08:55] Jason: Okay.
[00:08:55] Carolie: ...but this is what we say when a loud noise happens that we don't like.
[00:09:01] Jason: Yeah. That's a noise.
[00:09:02] Caroline: That's a noise.
[00:09:03] Jason: That's a noise.
[00:09:03] Caroline: That's a noise.
[00:09:03] Jason: This stemmed from a college friend, his wife, their child told her when she was singing, the child was like two, and just said, "Mom. Mom." And she stopped. She goes, "What?" And she goes, "That's a noise." And it just stuck for...
[00:09:17] Caroline: And it's literally stuck for a decade.
[00:09:19] Jason: Yeah. 10 years.
[00:09:20] Caroline: That's a noise.
[00:09:20] Jason: Yeah.
[00:09:22] Caroline: This is what you yell when you abruptly start running across the house to do something.
[00:09:28] Jason: Time me. I almost yelled it. I had to pull away from the mic. Yeah.
[00:09:33] Caroline: Time me.
[00:09:33] Jason: I mean, almost today did it.
[00:09:35] Caroline: It's hard to predict when you're going to take off...
[00:09:39] Jason: It's true.
[00:09:39] Caroline: ...but when you remember that you have to do something. Or if we're about to...
[00:09:42] Jason: You never do time me, though.
[00:09:43] Caroline: No, I don't.
[00:09:44] Jason: You never...
[00:09:44] Caroline: Or we're about to run out the door to the gym or something and you forget something upstairs. "Time me."
[00:09:48] Jason: Yeah. I got to get my water bottle, time me.
[00:09:50] Caroline: Okay. This is related to ola cao, but it's when we're specifically driving in the car and we see an animal on the side of the road as we pass.
[00:09:59] Jason: Oh. Every animal goes, moo.
[00:10:00] Caroline: Moo.
[00:10:01] Jason: Yeah.
[00:10:01] Caroline: It's just, moo.
[00:10:02] Jason: Moo, moo. That's a moo.
[00:10:04] Caroline: When I ask you what you're watching on TV, on the living room TV in front of me, but you've chosen something else while I was doing something.
[00:10:11] Jason: Right.
[00:10:12] Caroline: And I say, "What are you watching?" And what do you say?
[00:10:14] Jason: It's none of your business.
[00:10:15] Caroline: None of your business.
[00:10:15] Jason: Yeah. And I try to make sure that when I pause, I back out of where it says the title of the thing so that you can't know. So, then we just have this nice little back and forth where you're like, "Please, just tell me. I can see Jason Statham. I just want to know what this is."
[00:10:26] Caroline: I get increasingly more irate, because something you should know about me is I'm incredibly nosy. I need a look closer.
[00:10:32] Jason: Yeah.
[00:10:33] Caroline: I need to know what it is. And I also, for some reason, think it's so funny because it's on the biggest screen in front of my face. And I'm like, for you to say none of your business is funny to me.
[00:10:44] Jason: Yeah. Sometimes I really just won't tell you either.
[00:10:46] Caroline: Oh, here's a funny one. This is what we say, I'm going to get a side... This is what we say when we're at a family gathering and someone, anyone leaves the group to go do something else, they leave the room. So, we're in a group, we're in the living room. Everyone's been chatting. Someone gets up to go to another room.
[00:11:06] Jason: Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. Thanks for coming out, man.
[00:11:07] Caroline: No, that's a separate one. But that's a good one.
[00:11:09] Jason: Oh, okay, what is it?
[00:11:10] Caroline: Oh, I forgot about. Thanks for coming out.
[00:11:11] Jason: Yeah.
[00:11:12] Caroline: That's a good one. Okay, that's separate.
[00:11:13] Jason: Oh.
[00:11:14] Caroline: You got decent pooping?
[00:11:15] Jason: Oh, you get decent pooping? Oh, my family. You should have clarified it was my family. Because we don't do that with your family.
[00:11:19] Caroline: No, we just do it with your family.
[00:11:20] Jason: Yeah, there was a random joke that popped up about pooping, and so...
[00:11:22] Caroline: You got to do some pooping? When you leave a group to go anywhere.
[00:11:25] Jason: So, it's just like you're at lunch and then someone is going to be...
[00:11:26] Caroline: Yeah, it's just public embarrassment.
[00:11:27] Jason: ...like, "You got to do some pooping?"
[00:11:28] Caroline: You got to do some pooping?
[00:11:29] Jason: All right, one more and then let's rock and roll.
[00:11:31] Caroline: Okay, one more.
[00:11:32] Jason: How many more do you have in there?
[00:11:35] Caroline: Like five.
[00:11:35] Jason: Okay.
[00:11:36] Caroline: Here's one. That's a good throwback. I don't know if you'll get this one, but I want to give you a hard one.
[00:11:40] Jason: I will try, I will try.
[00:11:41] Caroline: This is what we say when I give you a choice to make of like, "Oh, where do you want to go for dinner? What do you want to eat tonight or something?" And you don't care.
[00:11:50] Jason: Yeah.
[00:11:51] Caroline: You don't really care one way or the other.
[00:11:53] Jason: Yeah.
[00:11:53] Caroline: And so, it's just a code word for, "Hmm, I don't really care, but I do have a slight preference. I do have a preference, but I want to be easygoing."
[00:12:03] Jason: Hmm.
[00:12:04] Caroline: Especially if we had friends over and they said, "Oh, where do you guys want to go?" It's very old.
[00:12:09] Jason: I can't think of it.
[00:12:11] Caroline: Ecco Domani.
[00:12:13] Jason: Ecco Domani.
[00:12:13] Caroline: Ecco Domani.
[00:12:13] Jason: Nice. We have not said that in a long time.
[00:12:16] Caroline: No, but that's...
[00:12:16] Jason: That's a good one.
[00:12:17] Caroline: That's an old staple.
[00:12:18] Jason: That's a good one. Can we tell why that exists? Because it's pretty funny.
[00:12:21] Caroline: It is pretty funny.
[00:12:22] Jason: Yeah.
[00:12:22] Caroline: Yeah. I don't think she would mind. My mom, when she came to stay with us, this was probably seven or eight years ago, and we were like, "Mom, we're going to the grocery store. We're going to pick up some wine. What do you want? Do you mind?" And she was like, "Oh, anything. I am easy."
[00:12:37] Jason: "I am easy. I am easy."
[00:12:38] Caroline: And then she was like, "If they have Ecco Domani."
[00:12:43] Jason: Because it was like, there were multiple "I am easy." It's like, "I really don't care. It's totally fine. Get whatever you want."
[00:12:48] Caroline: Yeah. It's totally fine. Anything.
[00:12:49] Jason: "But if they have Ecco Domani."
[00:12:51] Caroline: So if you're a people pleaser listening to this, feel free to use Ecco Domani as your code word.
[00:12:55] Jason: All right, welcome back, if you all enjoyed those and you want to hear more of them, let us know, hello@wanderingaimfully.com is the email, you can always send little notes about, and I always appreciate getting those. The one thing I want to share with you that I actually saw on Instagram the other day that was funny, and I didn't forward it to you because sometimes I just wanted to show it to you, but then I forgot to do that.
[00:13:12] Caroline: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
[00:13:12] Jason: Was a guy gets in his car, and maybe you've seen this, and he was like, "Here is the one way to trick your significant other into telling you where you're going for dinner without asking them where they want to go for dinner."
[00:13:24] Caroline: No. What is it?
[00:13:25] Jason: So, he turns on the camera, obviously. She gets in the car, and he's like, "Hey, babe." She's like, "What?" He was like, "We're going there tonight for dinner." And she's like, "Where?" He was like, "Where do you think?" And she's thinking about it, and she's like, "No." He's like, "Where do you think?" She's like, "We're going."
[00:13:45] Caroline: And then she's...
[00:13:46] Jason: He's like, "You got to say it or we're not going." And she's like, "Ruby Tuesdays?" He's like, "Yeah, we're going." And then he just looks at the camera, and he's like, it's so good.
[00:13:55] Caroline: Oh, my God. What a life hack.
[00:13:56] Jason: Oh, it's fantastic. I cannot wait to use it on you in like two weeks.
[00:13:59] Caroline: I know, but I'm just like, what would I say if we got in right now?
[00:14:01] Jason: Well, we have five restaurants where we live because we live in a tiny town in Portugal, so.
[00:14:05] Caroline: A tiny town.
[00:14:05] Jason: All right, let's get into this episode. Hey, now that we're 15 minutes into a long preamble.
[00:14:09] Caroline: Hey, hey.
[00:14:09] Jason: That was like a travel preamble. That was like a pream-vel that took us back.
[00:14:13] Caroline: Yeah, that was a little selfish, too, because I was just enjoying myself. It doesn't mean anything to anyone else, but I just was loving that.
[00:14:18] Jason: Yeah.
[00:14:18] Caroline: We'll walk down memory lane.
[00:14:20] Jason: So, the crux of this episode is related to social media, so it is fun to start this off with some trending social media things.
[00:14:26] Caroline: Wow. Babe, really good attempt at a segue.
[00:14:29] Jason: Thank you very much.
[00:14:29] Caroline: And good try.
[00:14:31] Jason: But I do think that this will hopefully be a relatable episode to a lot of you because it is something that we really haven't felt or dealt with in quite a long time.
[00:14:39] Caroline: Totally. I told you this yesterday. Man, if you've been following along with our content extravaganza journey for the past two months, we've been working up to this whole idea of posting content on social media again for two of our businesses now, not just Wandering Aimfully, but our software business, Teachery. And as I mentioned in the preamble, basically, we have been the least on social media that we've been in the past two to three years ever.
[00:15:08] Jason: Yeah.
[00:15:08] Caroline: And there's so many positives that have come along with that, but one of the negatives that has come along with that is...
[00:15:13] Jason: No one knows we exist.
[00:15:15] Caroline: Yeah. Well, first of all, I love that. And we've done episodes before and like running an invisible business, but you do just get sort of rusty and out of practice as it relates to the customs and the culture and the online things that are happening. And I think that that contributes to this feeling that I've had of this big buildup to going back on social. And I've been experiencing resistance like I haven't had in a really long time. And I told you I just wanted to record a podcast episode about it because I think it's relatable to a lot of people. It doesn't have to just pertain to going back on social, but it could be like...
[00:15:54] Jason: Sending newsletters. Yeah.
[00:15:55] Caroline: Sending newsletters. You've taken a break for a long time, or even like you've taken time off from your business and you're going back to it and you sort of feel like you're rusty or just...
[00:16:02] Jason: What is work? What am I even doing?
[00:16:04] Caroline: Exactly. And I think with anything that muscle atrophies a little bit and you have to build it back up. And I just wanted to normalize that feeling. And it's okay that we have these mental barriers in our minds. And I was thinking to myself, I'm like, what? Because we had already said this is the week that we were going to start posting the content, right?
[00:16:24] Jason: Yeah.
[00:16:24] Caroline: But in my mind, and I have a batch content that we've been creating. And so it's not like I don't have anything to post, but I found myself being like, okay, I got to get my little scheduler set up. We're going back to Later. We used to use this tool Later that you can schedule your post, so I'm going to use that. And then I hadn't written any of the captions or whatever. And then I started feeling self-conscious because I'm like, the caption game on Instagram reels is different to regular Instagram is different to TikTok's and like, I don't know.
[00:16:54] Jason: Yeah.
[00:16:54] Caroline: And all these things you really can get in your head. And I just found myself really procrastinating and putting it off and not wanting to post. And finally, I just had to talk myself up and be like, "Girl, what are you afraid of? What's happening here?"
[00:17:12] Jason: Yeah. And I think a big part of this is just, you just, you don't do something for a good amount of time, and you build up this whole idea in your head of how difficult it is or like, how uncomfortable it's going to feel.
[00:17:24] Caroline: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:24] Jason: And when you really zoom the lens out further, you're like, but for what? I'm literally posting a 30 second video that's people are either going to like it or they're not going to like it. That's the end of it.
[00:17:35] Caroline: Yeah.
[00:17:36] Jason: And I think that just, this is what our brains do, right? They make things out to be so much bigger and scarier they are, especially in the business world. Also with the context of other people are just killing it on these apps, right?
[00:17:48] Caroline: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:48] Jason: Like they have accounts that are so well dialed in and so well-branded, and the content is so good, and then you're like, "Okay, I'm going to post Teachery's very first short form video. Let's see how this goes." And you have these feelings...
[00:18:00] Caroline: Yeah. To 24 followers, and that's the funny part. Right?
[00:18:03] Jason: And I do think that just sharing a little bit more about how this kind of like relationship with social media works between us and our businesses is, I have never been on the forefront of for Wandering Aimfully, and Teachery has never had content. So, it's just easy to say it's never been done there. But I literally have not created social media content for business purposes in 10 years.
[00:18:28] Caroline: Yeah.
[00:18:28] Jason: I've only been a sidekick to you creating it for WAIM's Instagram account.
[00:18:32] Caroline: I would say, with the exception of, when you were doing BuyMyFuture, you really had a Twitter run up there where you were doing that a lot.
[00:18:38] Jason: Right, which was 10 years ago.
[00:18:40] Caroline: Oh.
[00:18:40] Jason: Which is absolutely wild.
[00:18:42] Caroline: Oh, no.
[00:18:42] Jason: Yeah, I know.
[00:18:43] Caroline: Yeah.
[00:18:43] Jason: But yeah. And so, for me, the world of Instagram has always been casually, here's some photos of my life. And then I just stopped doing that five years ago. And then it was fun to share some of my baking during the pandemic through Instagram stories, but it was just, there's no purpose to it whatsoever.
[00:18:58] Caroline: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:58] Jason: Just fun. And so, as we're getting back into this, I comment this whole relationship with social media of, well, I don't ever post anything that needs to do anything. It's just like hobby type posts, whereas you've been the strategic thinker behind all of our content, especially with WAIM. And so, I just wanted to share that context of, well, no wonder it feels heavier for you...
[00:19:19] Caroline: Of course, yeah.
[00:19:20] Jason: ...because there's like a, "Hey, we have a reason why we're doing this. We got to think through some of these strategic things." And I'm just like, "But I baked some bread. Don't you want to show some people what I do?"
[00:19:28] Caroline: Totally. Yeah, I'm on the front lines. Right? And as I interrogate this feeling more, I think it's so many things. It's yes, of course, it's sort of just the muscle atrophy like I was saying, it's just I'm not used to putting things out there publicly in a social media context, and so that feels very uncomfortable and foreign, whereas, I mean, and for those of you who maybe have joined us more recently, I was posting my art on my personal account, posting art every day, several years ago to build up my account to 20,000 followers back in 2016, 2014, '15, '16.
[00:20:07] Jason: 2017? Yeah.
[00:20:08] Caroline: And so, it's like I had honed that muscle so easily. So, it was never about the perfectionism of this needs to be perfect. When it came to my art, I was just in the habit of doing it daily and just having a conversation with the fans of my art, and that was great. So, number one is just the muscle atrophy like I just am out of practice. Right? Number two, I realized, I think part of it also is psychologically starting to post again on both of our business accounts, it's like a popping of the bubble, right? So, it's like, we've been off social, and we've been in this sort of peaceful realm...
[00:20:46] Jason: Yeah.
[00:20:46] Caroline: ...where I don't have to open myself up to the opinions of strangers all the time, I'm not saying those of you who follow us are strangers. Obviously, you're in our community, but you open yourself up to people who are not familiar with your work and their criticisms and their things. And it's been very nice not to be in that world. And so, I think part of what was why I was procrastinating is once you open that door again, it feels like that seal is broken.
[00:21:13] Jason: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:14] Caroline: And you're inviting in not just the positives that come with being back on social, but the negatives. And then you might be asking, "Well, why do it in the first place?" And we've talked about, we think the positives outweigh the negatives, and you can always choose to go off. Right? We're viewing this very much as an experiment. What happens when we post on Teachery for a few months? And does that actually lead to anyone trying signing up for a trial? We're going to figure all of that out, but we'd like to give it a try. So, it's definitely it's the breaking of the seal. It's the lack of muscle. It is also the going back to what I was saying before, and I don't know if anyone will resonate with this, but it's definitely the fear of not knowing what the customs are on these platforms.
[00:21:55] Jason: Yeah.
[00:21:55] Caroline: It's like when you come to a platform for the first time in the case of TikTok, like I said, I was not spending every day of the pandemic on TikTok like a lot of people were. So, I don't know what is happening there. I don't know what...
[00:22:07] Jason: Also, I'm even less helped because you're like, "I got to find the right hashtags." And I'm like, "Oh, okay, yeah, so just do this." And you're like, "No, that's not how we do things." I'm like, "Okay, I am of no help in this situation."
[00:22:15] Caroline: Yeah. And then it's like, well, do hashtags even matter anymore? But they matter for search, or they matter for training the algorithm, all these things. Right?
[00:22:23] Jason: Right.
[00:22:23] Caroline: But I mean, the feeling of to me, it feels like the equivalent of going to a country you've never gone to before and nobody trained you up on the customs. And so, you're walking around and you're constantly afraid of bowing when you're supposed to curtsy and...
[00:22:38] Jason: Yeah, for sure.
[00:22:39] Caroline: ...doing weird things that people look at you strange. And I know that, first of all, there's plenty of people who are not the kind of, and I think this is another thing that I had to pep talk myself about is like there are plenty of people on TikTok who are not the hip young kids.
[00:22:54] Jason: Yeah.
[00:22:55] Caroline: I know there's a perception that it's a lot of that who are like we're saying words I don't get. And I am getting to that age now where I'm like, "What are we talking about? What are the words? What is rizz? I don't understand." But there's a lot of people on there that aren't that. And so, it goes back to what the advice we always tell people, which is just be authentic. Just be honest about the fact that you don't know what you're doing. Don't try to be something that you're not. Don't try to be hip when you're not. You know?
[00:23:19] Jason: Yeah.
[00:23:19] Caroline: Don't try to be a cool mom.
[00:23:20] Jason: Yeah, don't try to be a cool mom, for sure. Yeah. And I think even just the thing that I, as the person that you're sharing these feelings with outside of this podcast, I just tend to come back with this idea of cool but doing something's better than doing nothing.
[00:23:37] Caroline: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:37] Jason: And so, let's just get going.
[00:23:39] Caroline: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:39] Jason: Let's just see what happens. And that's easy to say as the person who I'm not making that content, I'm not posting that content, but I do think it is a helpful reframe anytime you get stuck any of those things that you just go, "Okay, but this isn't that precious."
[00:23:52] Caroline: Exactly.
[00:23:53] Jason: "I'm going to post another video in two days. This one's going to be forgotten about anyway. Let's just keep moving forward."
[00:24:00] Caroline: Exactly. Exactly. It's like you just got to get the reps in. And at the top of this year, I really wanted my mantra to be learning in motion, and I just have to remind myself of that. And what that looks like in terms of a practical response is just lowering the stakes. Like just sort of telling myself, you don't have to be precious. You don't have to know the right caption. You don't have to know the right hashtags. You'll figure all that out as you experiment. Like last night, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to post it this time." And I said, "Today the goal is to post the damn videos."
[00:24:35] Jason: Yeah.
[00:24:36] Caroline: They will be seen by no one. Break the seal. That was my only goal for yesterday, was just break the seal, just break this tension that has built up in terms of the delay. And so, I don't know, those of you listening to this, if you have something like that in your business right now that you really feel like the longer time goes by, you build it up more and more in your head.
[00:24:59] Jason: Exactly.
[00:24:59] Caroline: You procrastinate on it. It feels bigger than it needs to be. I want you to just lower the stakes. I want you to say, "My only goal is to send an update email to my list saying, "Hey, I'm going to start the newsletter back up again." I don't have to write the first one. I'm just going to say I'm back. I'm going to break the seal."
[00:25:15] Jason: Yeah.
[00:25:16] Caroline: Or I'm going to send the outreach email, or I'm going to hit publish on the article. Whatever it is, just lower the stakes and just break the seal, because I'm telling you, the relief that you feel when you finally are like, "Oh, it wasn't that scary."
[00:25:30] Jason: Yeah, exactly. Do you want to talk about the perfectionism side of it? Because I think that is interesting for all of our fellow perfectionists who are listening.
[00:25:38] Caroline: Yeah, I've been thinking about perfectionism a lot, obviously because of the mental barrier with all of this. And I keep questioning myself and saying, "Do I struggle with perfectionism?" And like I said, it was confusing to me because I think back to my art days and I'm like, somebody who struggles with perfectionism is not releasing some of that art. Right?
[00:25:58] Jason: Right.
[00:25:59] Caroline: It never plagued me in that arena the way that this does. And so, I was asking myself, what makes this different? And the thing is I'm not someone who strives for perfection in any area of my life. I really don't. But there's a slight variation in flavor that I think is more my brand of perfectionism that I want to share in case this resonates with someone more than just the idea of striving for perfect. And in my head, it's less about getting something perfect and it's more about getting something done right the first time.
[00:26:30] Jason: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Caroline: Like "right." Okay, so I don't know, maybe my therapist would have something to say about this. I don't know what the difference is between those two things, but it feels pretty significant in my mind. And I think it also comes back to this idea of needing to be good at something, like not needing to be perfect, but just needing to feel competent. And also, the way that our business operates is a lot of times we're making decisions about things and then we're not revisiting them for months or even years because you just have to move on. Right?
[00:26:58] Jason: Yeah.
[00:26:59] Caroline: And so, sometimes in the business, I have this pressure to, if we were going to do a brand refresh at the top of this year for WAIM, it's a lot of pressure to choose all the brand elements because I'm going to live with that for the next two years or to write the welcome sequence for new trial users in Teachery. That's a lot of pressure because we're probably not going to come back to it for the next six to 12 months. And so, I have this pressure to be as strategic, as correct, as helpful or right, or optimized as possible when I'm doing something because that feels efficient to me. Does that make sense?
[00:27:38] Jason: Yeah. And I think it's a little bit easier to fight the perfectionism in social media content creation specifically as we're talking about this episode is you're going to be creating more content.
[00:27:49] Caroline: Exactly.
[00:27:49] Jason: That's the nature of the beast now, where it's like we started in a time, well, obviously, we started before social media, but we started in a time when it was you post once a week, and that's all you needed to post. And now it's like, if you're not posting multiple times a day, are you even relevant? And so, we all have to decide what that cadence is doable for in our businesses. But I think the important point to come back to is it's a little bit easier to fight this perfectionism in, okay, we posted the video yesterday.
[00:28:16] Caroline: Yeah.
[00:28:16] Jason: Guess what's going to happen tomorrow?
[00:28:18] Caroline: Yup.
[00:28:18] Jason: We're going to post another one. But in the example of WAIM's branding, we're not going to rebrand our entire business six months after we've did the branding exercise, because we just don't have the time to do that, and we can't take that time.
[00:28:29] Caroline: Definitely. And I don't know what it is about my particular brain, but I do have this hang up around getting something off on the right foot.
[00:28:38] Jason: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Caroline: Like having the foundation set up correctly from the beginning. I don't know what that is in my brain, but it objectively, I know that, so to your point, of course, I know we're going to be posting content almost twice a week or whatever, at least for right now. And so, logically, I know that three months from now, if my "system" isn't right from the start, I'll just revisit the system, spend an hour of my day to be like, how could I write captions more efficiently? How could I do this more efficiently? Obviously, I know I can do that, but there's something about my brain in particular that really wants to have that figured out from jump. And I don't know what that is, but it's definitely not something that's conducive to what's necessary in being a business owner, which is experimenting and learning, building, what do they say? Building the parachute on the way down or something?
[00:29:29] Jason: Yeah. The irony, too, is no one ever gives you a trophy and tells you that you did it right.
[00:29:33] Caroline: Well, no, but that's not what you're looking for.
[00:29:35] Jason: No, no, I know, but I'm just saying like you actually never get confirmation when you start...
[00:29:39] Caroline: Right.
[00:29:40] Jason: ...that you did it right.
[00:29:41] Caroline: Correct.
[00:29:41] Jason: The only confirmation you get is that you kept doing the thing.
[00:29:45] Caroline: Yes.
[00:29:45] Jason: And you got to a place where it was less uncomfortable to do it. And so, I think that we have done this in multiple areas of our business. You mentioned sharing your art on Instagram.
[00:29:56] Caroline: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:56] Jason: It's a very vulnerable thing, but after a while, you could share even pieces that you weren't that proud of because you were doing them every single day. And it wasn't a struggle anymore.
[00:30:04] Caroline: Yes. And the advice that I always gave people, people would always comment and they would say, and it's something that I strove for as an artist as well, people would say, "You have such a recognizable style. How did you land on your style?" And my answer was always the same, which is, "You just have to do an immense amount of work. You just have to keep doing work." Work meaning pieces, day after day after day, until it develops into something where you tighten the circle around what your particular preferences are and what your point of view is as an artist. I use these type of lines, I use these type of tools, I use these type of colors until you have a very recognizable set of characteristics that make your art recognizable. But the only way to get to that is to experiment and try out a bunch of different stuff a lot of times. And I think to myself, it's the same with social media. It's like I want to get it all right from the beginning, but it won't be our unique voice, and we won't be able to hit something that feels uniquely ours until we have a body of work that we can look back on and figure it out. Right?
[00:31:08] Jason: And we all know this, too. You look at anybody's account who is nailing it, and they're nailing it now...
[00:31:14] Caroline: Yes.
[00:31:15] Jason: ...but they weren't nailing it a year ago or two years ago.
[00:31:18] Caroline: Exactly.
[00:31:18] Jason: And that's the classic thing we never do in business is we never compare where someone is at in their journey, which is far along on their journey or even creeping close to the finish line if they're just doing so well. You don't look at where they were at when they were starting their journey. We don't go back and do that.
[00:31:32] Caroline: Totally. And if you do find those people, they're outliers, and their story is usually magnified because it is such an anomaly to have your first TikTok go viral or your first thing. And so those are the people getting interviewed, because people are like, "Oh, well, this makes for a fantastic story." But there's a little bit of bias involved in your brain believing like, oh, well, that's what happens. It's like, no, that's not what happens. So, going back to things that have helped me in this mindset of just break the seal, do the thing is exactly what you just said, which is reminding myself every single time we post that is a contribution to a body of work that is our pathway to figuring out what type of social media content feels authentic and unique and valuable in our world.
[00:32:17] Jason: Yeah. And what's interesting about that, I don't know if this metaphor is going to land fully here.
[00:32:23] Caroline: We love to try.
[00:32:24] Jason: Is you imagine that you're filling up a bucket of trust with the people who are following your account. And if you just drop one drop of social media content in that bucket, it's not very much trust in the bucket. So, it's not filled up very much.
[00:32:39] Caroline: Totally.
[00:32:40] Jason: But if you drop 36 pieces of content, which is two across three months to a week across three months, you filled the bucket up more. So, you have more opportunities for someone to be like, "Oh, yeah, I trust that this account is going to put out some interesting content and I'm going to actually enjoy it." And I think the thing that we do is we put so much pressure on the one to deliver all the trust to a person when it's like, that's just not how it works at all across anything.
[00:33:03] Caroline: Well, and going back to not just the external, which is what you're talking about like how people receive it, but also the internal, which going back to what I was saying about wanting to have it, the system and the process right from the jump, we talked a lot about during our content extravaganza, this idea of the first pancake where it's the first one of anything, it's going to be...
[00:33:21] Jason: Also, I've been making some actual real first pancakes recently...
[00:33:23] Caroline: And it is delicious.
[00:33:24] Jason: ...and they've been edible, but not beautiful.
[00:33:26] Caroline: Right. But the thing with the first pancake is the first time you do anything it's going to be cumbersome, it's going to be inefficient, it's going to be not the process that you end up with. And as we talk about, the only way to get to that process is to keep doing things and changing them every time and honing your process. Right? And so, that's just a reminder to my own brain that just the only way to understand what type of content is going to resonate with our audience is to get through a bunch of content. The only way to have that beautiful process that feels seamless that I'm thinking of is to keep creating and keep honing that process.
[00:33:59] Jason: Yeah. I think the interesting caveat here, if you will, that is a little bit different for us, it's worth acknowledging is the fact that both of these businesses are working to some degree.
[00:34:10] Caroline: Without social media. Yes.
[00:34:12] Jason: Yeah. So, Teachery makes enough money to sustain itself as the side project it has been. It does not make enough money to replace all of our income, which is why we're trying to create social content to get more eyeballs on Teachery, to get more people joining Teachery. Right? But the pressure is not there on posting content for Teachery because it's sustaining itself right now. WAIM, we hit our enough number a couple years ago, and that business is thriving and doing well. And the only reason why we're thinking about posting content is because we want to diversify our audience building and to be able to try some new things and reach some more people and do that without relying so heavily just on one source being our email newsletter.
[00:34:51] Caroline: And truthfully, just like flexing the muscle again so that I can... I can't, in good conscience coach people on how to have a digital products business if I don't dip my toe back into social media and have, at least, an understanding of what it takes to grow an account in 2024.
[00:35:08] Jason: Exactly. Because I think the thing that we do see from other people, which is like, "Here's how to grow your business without social." And it's like, if you're just teaching people how to grow their business without social, and all your business does is teach people how to grow business without social, you're not actually the good person to teach that person. You need to have a business separate that sells art prints or sells other things, that you don't use social media that makes money to then be able to say, "Look, let me show you how I grew this business over here that isn't just teaching people how to not use social media, it's like actually selling a thing." And then you earn the right to tell people how to do that.
[00:35:44] Caroline: Right.
[00:35:45] Jason: And so, we definitely didn't want to fall in that bucket of, listen, the reality is social media is where everybody sends their time and attention, so.
[00:35:51] Caroline: It's free to some degree.
[00:35:53] Jason: Yeah. And I think that there is just, when you look at the holistic picture of starting a business, yes, you could do it without social media, but the reality and truth is it is going to take so much longer because you're fighting for people's attention when their attention is in these apps every single day.
[00:36:09] Caroline: Yeah. And going back to the podcast episode that we recorded about creating your social media off ramp. That's the goal.
[00:36:16] Jason: Yeah.
[00:36:16] Caroline: The goal is certainly that you would never be beholden to social media so that you can pop on and off as you like, as we were just describing, like Jason was saying, our business doesn't rely on it. I think that's the ultimate goal is when you have the freedom and the control to go on when you want and take breaks when you want. That's the ideal, but like he was just saying, we are not naive enough to think that you can just build an audience overnight using email and podcasting...
[00:36:45] Jason: Yeah.
[00:36:45] Caroline: ...in order to be able to go off social media, you need to use every tool at your disposal until you create that off ramp for yourself.
[00:36:52] Jason: Yeah. And there is a absolute truth to having to be on discovery platforms, not these closed mechanisms. So, like an email audience, a podcast, these are closed things where you're just not going to get organic growth. Being on YouTube, being on Instagram, being on TikTok, all these other things are going to open you up to people who are searching for and looking for the thing that you're doing.
[00:37:11] Caroline: Yeah. So going back to what you were saying about realizing that these platforms are not necessary for us, for our businesses to thrive, I think it becomes a lot easier mentally to just take the pressure off and just be like, it's not that serious, it's okay. And sometimes you do have to give yourself a little pep talk and a little mental reframe and shift it a bit. And if you're an ambitious person, it's always going to be that sort of checks and balances that you have to put on yourself in your own mind to say, "Hey, it's cool that you really want to do this well, but it's not cool when it gets to the point where you're putting pressure on yourself and you're not actually out there taking action, which is what you want to be doing."
[00:37:53] Jason: Exactly. All right. You want to wrap this sucker up?
[00:37:57] Caroline: Yeah. So, I think the last point that you wanted to include here, just to wrap things up is just, and I think this is a really powerful thing, which is to remind yourself is this overthinking? Is this perfectionism? Is this over optimization? We'll call my flavor of perfectionism. Is that actually serving you? And in terms of your goals and what you're trying to accomplish to your point, if your audience isn't growing right now, is not posting content serving you in any way.
[00:38:25] Jason: Right.
[00:38:25] Caroline: No. You're going to make up all these things in your head about how it could be more strategic, and you could spend another two weeks doing research on the best way to do this and that. And meanwhile...
[00:38:34] Jason: Your audience is still not growing because you're not posting.
[00:38:36] Caroline: ...you're no closer to your goals. Right?
[00:38:37] Jason: Yeah.
[00:38:38] Caroline: So, if your product isn't selling, not sending the sales emails isn't serving you.
[00:38:42] Jason: Yeah.
[00:38:42] Caroline: If your customers aren't raving about your product, not talking to them to learn how to improve it isn't serving you. So, it's just this reminder of the real cost and pain of the inaction. I think the more that you can face that for yourself, it can give you a nice little boost to be like, you know what, yeah, what's the worst that can happen? Let me actually take some action. Let me actually put myself out there, and it may be a little uncomfortable at first, but I'm willing to put myself through that discomfort in order to get closer to the thing I say I want."
[00:39:11] Jason: Yeah. Well, we will check back in here as we go on how all of our social posting is turning out. And if it's any type of actual value to our businesses, which I think is the thing we want to make sure that we're not just posting into the void and just doing it for vanity metrics.
[00:39:29] Caroline: Yeah.
[00:39:29] Jason: And so, I think we'll keep checking in. I'm very curious just to see how the content itself evolves over the next couple of months. Because like you said, we have a bank of content for Teachery, and we want to see how those things perform so that then we can go, "Okay, this did well. This didn't do well. Let's do this. Moving forward let's not do this." But again, you won't know those things until you're posting, and you actually get that feedback because it's very easy to sit and look at the things you've created without any feedback from anybody externally and go, "This isn't good enough." It's like, well, let someone else tell you who you made this for that it's not good enough. Obviously, there's a barrier to your...
[00:40:05] Caroline: Definitely.
[00:40:05] Jason: ...your own equation there. But yeah. So, we'll keep you posted on our little journey into social. Will be back on WAIM's Instagram in about a month, I think.
[00:40:15] Caroline: Couple of weeks.
[00:40:16] Jason: We're seeing if we have the bandwidth to do that because as we said in previous episode, can we manage these two businesses and all their social accounts? And the answer is not at the moment. So, we're just going with Teachery at the moment, and then I'm keeping up with WAIM's YouTube channel. So, it does count...
[00:40:31] Caroline: That does count on the...
[00:40:32] Jason: ...that we are doing something for WAIM externally.
[00:40:34] Caroline: ...imaginary scoreboard that nobody is keeping.
[00:40:37] Jason: Right. But I also think it might be helpful for some listeners to be like, "Oh, okay, so you guys think that just posting on YouTube is good enough. You don't have to be on Instagram or TikTok for WAIM?" And the answer for right now is yes, that's good enough.
[00:40:47] Caroline: The answer, like all things that you will find on every episode of our podcast is whatever you can do is what you can do.
[00:40:55] Jason: Exactly.
[00:40:56] Caroline: So do that.
[00:40:57] Jason: And it's just like in our couple's dictionary, the thing we always say when we start and finish these podcasts.
[00:41:03] Caroline: What?
[00:41:04] Jason: Just our three-word phrase that everyone loves about this podcast that we always say to kick things off, when we start a podcast?
[00:41:10] Caroline: Podcast are great... Cool, dot, dot, dot.
[00:41:14] Jason: Podcast are cool, dot, dot, dot.
[00:41:15] Caroline: You don't say that every time.
[00:41:17] Jason: No, I know, which is why it was a great finish.
[00:41:18] Caroline: Okay, you do one for me. Can you think of one?
[00:41:21] Jason: I was trying to think of one, but it does...
[00:41:23] Caroline: It's hard, isn't it?
[00:41:24] Jason: Yeah, it does take, like you can't really do them off the cuff. You got to like look around the house.
[00:41:27] Caroline: It's like when you said the things were coming out, man, I'm like, "Oh, that's such a good one. I never thought of that."
[00:41:30] Jason: Yeah, that was a good one. Okay.
[00:41:31] Caroline: Okay.
[00:41:32] Jason: Well, I'll think of some myself and then I can come back, but I'm only going to do it if people email us and tell us they were fun. Because if they don't, then it's just for us.
[00:41:38] Caroline: Okay.
[00:41:38] Jason: Okay, bye.
[00:41:39] Caroline: Bye.