Defining Hospitality

🏨✨ Defining Hospitality is Sponsored by Berman Falk https://www.bermanfalk.com/ - Check out their impact page! 🌍🌱 https://www.bermanfalk.com/impact/ 

In today’s episode, Dan Ryan sits down with Ashley Ewing Parrott, Founder and Principal Creative Director at AEP Hospitality Consulting and Co-Founder of The Saturday Crowd. The discussion delves into how Ashley's creative direction and strategic insights have helped transform the hospitality industry. They explore what hospitality truly means, the importance of branding, and how a well-crafted guest experience can drive revenue. Ashley shares her journey from her early aspirations to her current success in creating award-winning hospitality experiences like The Wayback in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. They also discuss the role of big brands in independent hotels and the delicate balance between maintaining unique guest experiences and leveraging corporate support.

Takeaways: 
  • Get crystal clear on the client's vision and goals for the project at the beginning. Use creative exercises such as mood boards to align on aesthetics and objectives.
  • Choose team members who are uniquely suited for the project. Avoid a one-size-fits-all approach and instead match the project's needs with the team's strengths.
  • Elevate guest experience to be on par with other critical factors like budget and schedule.
  • Bring in branding experts early in the process to ensure the property has character and depth. Late integration of branding can result in a soulless, two-dimensional product.
  • For soft-branded properties affiliated with larger hotel chains, maintain brand-specific uniqueness while meeting essential standards like cleanliness and functional operational metrics.
  • Create a compelling narrative around the property, from design elements to guest services. This helps set the property apart and attract a targeted audience.
  • Utilize the positive feedback and loyalty programs from affiliated brands to boost occupancy while maintaining high ADRs through distinctive brand elements.
Quote of the Show:
“People are craving and then are subsequently willing to pay for connection, feeling connected to something.” - Ashley Ewing Parrott

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Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Rayanne Pruitt

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - Ashley Ewing Parrott
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Speaker: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Today's guest is a creative director who excels at building collaborative teams and hospitality. She's an award winning thought leader with proven success in the hospitality industry. She's created breathtaking experiences, all while balancing budget, design, guest experience, and brand.

She's an entrepreneur and founder. and Principal Creative Director at AEP Hospitality Consulting. And she also co founded The [00:01:00] Saturday Crowd, a hospitality branding agency. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Ashley Ewing Parrott.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Hi.

Yeah. Thanks for having

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: so glad we're here from the banks of the Mississippi to the banks of the Long Island Sound.

So there we go.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: From one muddy body of water to another. Cheers.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Too shallow, but muddy bodies of water. Um, I just want to share with everyone, I met Ashley years and years and years ago, I believe at Marriott, but, you know, there's so many people there. I'm all, we're all busy doing our things, but then we met again a few years ago at the Rubell Museum during an Independent Lodging Congress event.

Which, I love the Independent Lodging Congress. Shout out to them. And I believe I was reintroduced to you by Jackie Wright from Pineapple. And, but she put like an exclamation point on it. It was one of those where it's like, you guys have met before. I was like, yeah, we've met before, but no, you really have to [00:02:00] know Ashley.

And she just really put, you know, how, when you get those re introductions, but like, no pause. And like, there's a lot of people around, but pay attention.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Yeah.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Jackie, thank you. Because

why we're here now is a lot because of that punctuation mark. So I appreciate it.

Um, but in coming from Marriott and now, founding and co founding two different companies in the hospitality space.

I'm sure you think a lot about hospitality as your vocation and passion and purpose, but what does it mean to you? And then we can jump into it. How do you define it?

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: it's a, um, it's such an incredible question. And one I have, uh, truthfully mulled over quite a bit in preparation for us sitting down. Um, one thing that literally just jumped into my head, um, that I haven't thought about in many years, my first job aspiration when I was a toddler,

um, my parents, We traveled quite a bit and I fell in love with it from an early [00:03:00] age, but I sat my mom down at one point and I said, I want to make a hotel, make, make, you know, make a hotel. She said, really? What, like, tell me more. Um, and we were a family that stayed in, you know, motel six and like, like this is not, it's not like we traveled, you know, aspirationally the globe. Um,

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: steamer trunks.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: yeah. Yeah. And, and a valid, um, no, I said, I want to create a hotel and call it the welcome in, get it.

I thought I was very clever. Um, but I guess I had early aspirations for creating incredible hospitality experiences that felt welcoming and clever, um, from an early age. Hospitality is truly a privilege. And I think a lot of times because we do it day in and day out, we forget about that, but to me, it's the privilege of caring for another person, um, for meeting them where they are. without any pretense or pre plan for how things are going to go and really providing [00:04:00] service that isn't prescriptive, but is genuine and targeted at the guest. So it's like, what do you need from us? How can we further your goals for this business trip or for this vacation? It's less about the table stakes of like guest satisfaction and more about making sure that we show genuine care for the guests who, you know, darken our doorways.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: thank you for sharing that. And a lot of it resonates with me. But as you were sharing two things, when you said table stakes, I imagine, I imagine like T bone steaks sitting on a table. Which is not what you meant at all. But then also when you said, when you shared your three year old self with, and the idea of the welcome in, I had this vision of a doormat, but that's not really what you intended, but the doormat came there.

So then what made me think about that, as far as how we're talking, I would say [00:05:00] in the past, brand has always been important. So let's just start with that. So I don't want to minimize that, but I have. In doing this for many, many, many years at the project level in the past couple of years, I felt the worm turn a bit, if you will, to where people are spending a lot more time with, at the brand level for the property and the brand.

Well, you're the expert in branding, so I don't even want to pretend to know, but establishing all of those pillars. And guidelines and the brand book for all the stakeholders involved. Um, and then everything else trickles down from there. It's like a well orchestrated business strategy, like a pyramid, right?

You have your focus and everything else follows suit and everything is in a line. It's those inspirational posters of the crew team rowing and all that stuff. Like it really sets it up well. And I've only really noticed it. Recently that a greater effort has been put at it at the [00:06:00] project level, and maybe that's the raise of independent lifestyle and boutique brands, which you know a lot, and I'm sure you can share about.

What made me think about the doormat is oftentimes, In the past, a project is just a project and they kind of create this narrative of this project that's in a vacuum almost that I found in the past and it could lead to everyone becoming like a doormat towards opening that project. So not what you intended by saying that welcome in, but it made me think this way and I feel like I've been talking too long, but how have you seen brand change?

And how can. A well thought about an executed brand vision and strategy prevent everyone on a project team from being a doormat to just getting the doors open to really addressing the needs, wants, and [00:07:00] desires of all of the stakeholders involved.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Yeah. I mean, so many words and so many things that like triggered responses in me that I'm like, yes, yes, yes. I want to talk about this and I hope I remember them all. First, the doormat. Welcome in. That is a guest first experience of the brand, assuming they haven't, you know, been on the website and things like first tangible experience of the brand. So even your thought, immediate, innate thought of a doormat, of a welcome mat, if you will, Is their first, I guess, first experience with the brand, potentially, right? Not to say that every, you know, doormat has to be branded, but it could be, um, in this case. Second, I think we have spent as hotel developers, so much time focused on the transaction of it all, that we have lost sight oftentimes of, The ultimate goal of a property and the [00:08:00] key metrics to success, which are guest satisfaction, guest experience, driving loyalty, right? So those things all have direct ties to the ultimate revenue growth of a property. And to me, um, and one of the reasons that I, You know, I founded my consultancy and then later co founded our branding studio was because that brand that is being created at the very beginning of a project at the inception of a hotel is the filter that should be used to pass through every subsequent decision through the development process.

So, you know, if we're creating a brand and, um, We know that it's fun and funky and a little bit, um, out there and eclectic that will guide the decision to hire an interior design firm. We're going to look for a firm who is capable of delivering, you know, something that's a little off the beaten path. Um, When we think about, [00:09:00] you know, who we may want to affiliate with, whether the hotel is a soft brand or, um, fully independent, those decisions are often, you know, passed through the filter of the brand that we're creating and the location. Yes, we always need to think about metrics like, you know, pro formas and ultimate revenue growth, P& Ls, all that. Yes, that matters. But it is not the only thing that matters. So one of the things that I talk about a lot with my clients is balancing, as opposed to just being, um, captive by the, the schedule and the budget, it's adding a third spoke to that, which is scheduled budget and guest experience. And to me, I believe all three of those things should be of equal priority. because ultimately the guest experience is what will drive those repeat stays. It is what will drive that loyalty. It is what will earn, you know, organic marketing and opportunities and things. So it's often one that's kind of less [00:10:00] considered in the development process, but to your point impacts everything once the doors are open.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Yeah. Okay. So then if you think about those three metrics you rattled off a few minutes ago of guest satisfaction, guest experience, and guest loyalty, how do you think that this rise of importance is of brand at a, let's say like an independent soft brand level has taken not primacy because ultimately it's still a real estate transaction and you need to show returns and growth and you know all those things because it is a performing financial asset.

But how have those three kind of more soft metrics of guest experience, guest, guest satisfaction, guest experience, and, and guest loyalty, how have they helped add fuel? To those returns of, of all of the other metrics that are important to a real estate transaction. Wow.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Um, so I, I think they [00:11:00] have, um, become more and more important in the ultimate success of properties, simply because in the world we're living in today in particular, in the last five to 10 years, people are looking for craving and willing and then are subsequently willing to pay for connection, feeling connected to something, right?

That is more of a commodity now. Yeah. The whole experiential factor or the making memories or the idea of connecting with another human on a very basic level, those things are more valuable and in turn guests are willing to pay for them. I think more so than maybe the road warrior business traveler or, you know, typical family vacation guest of 20 years ago, right?

So people are seeking that out. And. Whether that's through social media or, you know, through sites like TripAdvisor, they're crowdsourcing, [00:12:00] you know, some of this decision on where to go and where to stay and what to look for, what types of experiences to look for, you know, on these trips. And I think that that is driving revenue. So the better we are doing, the more satisfied our guests are when they're leaving. The better their experience, meaning the more they want to talk about it and then share it. And then the loyalty that they build because that has had, you know, they've had such a great experience and they're sharing it with their friends. All of those things translate into repeat business. They translate into a higher rate they're willing to pay the next time they come. They translate into more F& B revenue on property, you know, than they might've had if, if no one was really recommending the restaurant or, you know, things like that. So there is a direct revenue correlation and it does very much matter. To developers, to clients like mine, how much money we are making, where we are making sound decisions. It's not about just building a beautiful hotel that people will enjoy that, you know, it doesn't underwrite. There are direct [00:13:00] ties from guest experience, guest loyalty to ultimate ADR projections and revenue growth.

I mean, we just finished up, um, I'm happy to say it's, it's. It's, uh, operating really well right now, a renovation project, a complete repositioning of a roadside motel in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, um, you know, that was running a 70 to 80 ADR. Um, we renovated it, repositioned it, reimagined it, branded it, and then tucked it under, um, the Tribute Portfolio, um, Softbrand within Marriott International.

And now it's running over a 200 ADR. you know, and for, for a very reasonable investment level, um, So, I mean, I think that one is not exclusive to the other, right? Like you, you can't, I guess the better way to say that is you can't do one without the other and expect to be successful.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: And which property is that?

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: That's the way back in Pigeon Forge.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Oh, wow. Okay. Oh, wow. Cool. [00:14:00] Yeah.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: That's a good one. It actually, congratulations to my client. It just made the 2024 world's, uh, world's greatest places list from Time Magazine. So very proud of that one.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Cool. And I've never even, Oh, it's right next to Dollywood. Okay. I've never been to Pigeon Ford. Okay, great. so I find a couple of things interesting just like looking at that and hearing what you're saying. Number one, in your pursuits right now, like your business pursuits, your entrepreneurial pursuits, you're not a designer, right?

You are, A hospitality consultant. So that's dealing with the nuts and bolts of the business aspect of it, accounting for all the metrics that are important. And those three soft ones that we mentioned that in the case of the pigeon, uh, in the case of the Wayback, um, I think it contributed to that 3x plus, um, I don't know, two and a half to three X, uh, increase in ADR.[00:15:00]

I don't think that that would happen if you were treated like a doormat on a project like that, where it was just like, Hey, we want to do this. We want to open it. We want to do new paint and blah, blah, blah. So you probably had to convince your client. To maybe spend a little bit of more money here or consider doing this a little bit differently.

And then you have your branding arm that can really help make sense of all those soft things and create alignment. So that sounds like a dream project for, Oh, I don't know what it was like making it going through the whole process to opening it, but the results are astounding actually. So

how do you like walk us through an ideal project experience where There's some vision, but maybe an owner is looking at it as a transaction.

You're able to kind of make sense of, okay, this is what you, where you want to get to, but like, how do we actually do that on the softer side of things? And like, yeah, [00:16:00] walk us through a kickoff of that. And how do you bring in, and when do you bring in branding?

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Yeah, it's a, it's a great question. I mean, I think the Wayback is an excellent case study for, um, an ideal project. You know, I had a, a very, um, very smart and motivated client who had a property that was within his family's portfolio and he knew it had potential. Um, he wanted to do something cool, something that was, you know, never before experienced in a market like Pigeon Forge. Um, but also it had to, it had to pencil, right? It had to make sense in order to justify the expense. Um, so it would have been easy enough for him to hire me or a project management firm, if you will, to say, here are the 17 steps we have to achieve in this order, in order to accomplish a renovation in this period of time at this budget. Oftentimes, [00:17:00] What happens, what gets lost in that process, especially when branding is brought on too late, is that the soul of the project isn't really established. It's not like it's lost. It's that it's never really found in the first place. So if it's never established, if that, that depth of character, if you will, is not built for the hotel and there isn't a person championing that character through the entirety of the process. Eating, sleeping, breathing the ethos of this brand that you're creating, then oftentimes you end up with something that is really two dimensional, you know, and it doesn't round out the full guest journey and it, it leaves people, you know, either feeling a little lost or, or at least just not establishing a real true connection to the brand or the property. So with the way back in particular, and my client came to me and he's like, I want to do something really cool. I'm like, well, yes, man. I'm, I am always a board to do [00:18:00] something really cool.

Let's And so we started looking at the market that is Pigeon Forge that, you know, there was a quote that my team pulled for the branding deck. We always pull from one major, um, magazine source, to give like a, a header. To our initial discovery presentation. And this line was out of AARP magazine and it was Pigeon Forge is Myrtle Beach meets Vegas.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Oh, wow. That's

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: you, if you think about that, if you process it, it really is, it's as weird and quirky and kitschy as one might expect a fusion of Myrtle Beach and Vegas to be the spectacle of it all. So we knew we could really kind of lean into The weirdness, if you will. I mean, the hotel, ultimately, the tagline is normal is no fun. Um, and there was intention to that. So then we thought, okay, what does this look like from a color perspective? What does it look like from a service offerings perspective? What kind of rate do we really think we can acquire? Who are the guests that will [00:19:00] actually be frequenting this place? what are Do we have an opportunity to bring a guest into market that may be skipping Pigeon Forge altogether? Because they're not finding a hotel that feels, um, upscale enough for them.

They're not, they think of this market and they think, yeah, there's probably not anything someone like me would enjoy doing there. So we opened the door to an entire new subset of guests that may, if they're coming to Pigeon Forge at all, they're likely staying in an Airbnb up on one of the mountains, coming down a few times during the week, but mostly staying to themselves. So that informed the strategy. Which informed kind of the vibe of the hotel. So we then started taking inspiration from the building and from the area. And we're like, Hey, you know, how interesting would it be if it was, you know, 60s, 70s, Palm Springs inspired right there in the middle of Pigeon Forge. And some of that was born of, you know, the fact that there's the island, which is an entire development that has like two Margaritaville hotels and stuff right across the street. There's a Margaritaville in Pigeon Forge, [00:20:00] Tennessee. Strange, right? So we kind of piggybacked. On that quirk. And we created a property that is 60s, 70s Palm Springs inspired. It's very

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Well, I would just, with respect to Margaritaville, when you say it combines Vegas and Myrtle beach, it doesn't sound strange at all. Like that's perfect

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Exactly, exactly. It is, yeah, my mother in law would be so proud. Um, it is exactly that. It's a bit of weird,

but

served to a higher end client in a palatable and approachable fashion. Um, you know, so normal is no fun. Um, I mean, we, this, this property had a teeny tiny little pool inside of a metal fence. In the middle of a parking lot. It's difficult to market. That's difficult to, you know, we knew we weren't taking it out. We knew we weren't moving the pool. We knew we couldn't lose parking spots. So what do you do with that? Well, interbranding and genius creatives and copywriters that, you know, I'm so lucky to have on our [00:21:00] team. They're like, well, what if we just called it the parking lot Oasis? And we planted some palm trees and we took out the slide and added an Airstream pool bar and put in a pergola. And then it was born that we created this amenity that used to just be kind of this weird lump in the middle of the parking lot. And now it's this beautiful resort style pool with food and Bev and TVs and cabanas and it's the parking lot oasis.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: I

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: And now it's a revenue generator.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Okay. So in this kind of independent, is it brand affiliated? Oh yeah, it is. It's a

tribute.

Okay. So it's in the Marriott, um, it's in the Marriott world. when did you recognize that this kind of independent soft brand, I don't like the word boutique, but like, when did you recognize this on your career journey?

Whether at Marriott or before that this was like where the puck was [00:22:00] going.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: long before actually. Um, it, it was 2012, right around in there. You know, it was in, um, hospitality school early in my hotel career. I'd always preferred to stay as an adult at independent or boutique hotels. I, I'd always preferred, um, that to a hard brand. Just because you, you know, first hotel I fell in love with was in Virginia beach and it was completely shuttered at the time, but the Cavalier, um, which is a beautiful independent hotel right on the beach.

It's now, I think now an autograph, but, um, my stepmother's business had, had parties there. And so I'd walk the halls of this kind of shuttered hotel because they still used the basement area for events and go, this is, this is what it's about. Like, can you imagine what the story building has seen and what it's experienced?

And so I'd always been passionate about it. But then when I worked for a private developer, um, in Chattanooga, [00:23:00] Tennessee, and helped them build, And develop their first boutique hotel. I started looking at the, cause I was looking through, looking at it through the lens of sales and marketing, which is my initial role with them.

I was responsible for selling at a corporate level there, this hotel. And, um, I started thinking like, there's nothing like this in the market of Chattanooga. The best hotel at the moment, you know, is, is an independent hotel, um, and it's not that great. So like It's, it should be pretty easy for a decent salesperson to sell this hotel that is so unique to this area for a higher rate. And so I kind of with confidence was saying that to my leadership team, like, Hey, you know, you guys are projecting this was. over a, well over a decade ago, you guys are projecting like a 175 ADR, but you know, that your Hampton Inn, our Hampton Inn that we own downtown is running [00:24:00] 156 right now. If I can't reach 220 in the first year, I'm not very good at my job. And so as we started developing it, then, you know, we did the first new build Moxie, we did an adaptive reuse in, in Louisville that was completely independent and I kind of got bit by the bug, but I also started, um, just ravenously consuming independent and soft braided hotels across the country. And realizing that people really love them. People really enjoy it. So that was 10, 12 years ago. It w

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Yeah. And it also, okay. So 10 or 12 years ago, and I don't like taking it outside of the world of Marriott. I'm not sure. I forget when like IHG bought Kempton. But it's probably in that 8 10 year.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: it was right around, right around that time. Yeah. Kempton and Kempton truly was like kind of the inaugural.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Totally. It was the, I think It was the, first one that really achieved scale really well, right?

Because it still

stayed [00:25:00] Kimpton, and continues to stay Kimpton. And then, I don't, but it's also been interesting to see how IHG has re org'd their, from a design perspective, their, um, luxury and lifestyle. And keeping it all in San Francisco and different than from Atlanta, because I think that they see the, the value in that.

And I

don't,

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: protecting it a bit.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: yeah, and I did a little bit of research just to kind of understand the numbers, but I feel like whatever their development pipeline is for ISHE overall. A lot, um, a chunk of that is this luxury lifestyle, independent, soft branded, if you will, um, segment. But I think that the amount of revenue that it's contributing to the growth of revenue for IHG is outsize all of the other properties.

So it is a growth. You look at Hyatt, um, and their acquisition of Dream and, um, [00:26:00] I don't know, and Bunkhouse and Standard and all the other ones that they're, they're just kind of treating those differently. And I wonder if that's, and also your experience of, you know, at Merit and really, Look, doing addition and,

um, tribute and tapestry.

Um, there's a real power in this and a real revenue growth monetary driver, but it, it does, these types of hotels don't do well when they hit scale. So how do you balance that kind of unique? Welcome in way back in experience with the need for scale and growth. Like, it just seems like a really, um,

difficult, yeah, it's a fine line and it's a really difficult tension to navigate.

And, but I think everyone's seeing growth in that.

Speaker 2: Hey everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability. And I'm [00:27:00] just really proud to announce that our sponsor Berman Falk Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: I think that the challenge is

to the brand, meaning the parent brand, the affiliate, Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, to, to allow the portfolios and the hotels within them far more autonomy than they're probably comfortable with, right? These large scale companies, Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, are prescriptive by nature.

It is how they maintain standards across their hard brands. I know that when we were working to reposition Tribute, um, after the Starwood merger, a lot of our discussions were around how do we protect [00:28:00] these independent hotels from the prescriptive nature that is how we run the largest hotel company in the world. And so, you know, a lot of the kind of normal day to day metrics remained the same in the way of like guest satisfaction, intent to recommend, stuff like that. But we had to figure out a very creative way. For those to be gauged, So it was more about, you know, how was your service? You know, obviously like certain things never change, right? Cleanliness, um, you know, facilities, the status of facilities, those, those things are never going to change because those are, I said it once before, I'll say it again, table stakes in our industry, right? They're just insisted upon. They're, you know, the bottom of the barrel that you can, you know, perform to, to have a successful hotel. But how do we then help? These independent properties [00:29:00] maintain their own service story, maintain their own brand narrative and guest experience, but also commit to delivering a level of service that our guests, our loyal members of Bonvoy or whomever So it was a delicate thing. It's a fine line to walk and I think the more. The larger companies, the parent companies can build a framework, but allow for interpretation within that framework for these hotels so that they're not pigeonholed into the same set of standards and the same expectation of, you know, guest journey, the more successful hotels within it will be. Very

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: also interesting, if we go back to those three kind of, I don't know if soft metrics is, I don't like the word soft, but those three metrics that are not like the leading metrics in a, in a hospitality real estate transaction of guest satisfaction, guest experience and guest loyalty. I feel as if the big brands help with number three, the [00:30:00] guest loyalty, right?

Cause you mentioned Bonvoy, guest satisfaction, that's pretty much table stakes as far as just operations and, and who you're hiring. And I guess the uncomfortable part is the experience because from a design perspective, from a location perspective.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: what I bring.

That's my whole job.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Okay. So. She just raised her hand very firmly. If

you, for those of you listening, right.

So I love how you said the bigger brands. They give up a ton more, far more autonomy than they're comfortable with. And that must be in the experience side. So how do, and I'm not, I don't want to minimize the big box like road warrior hotels, because those serve a point too,

but how do you minimize, how did, and your expertise and that skillset that you have, um, as a consultant and also as a partner in, uh, in a [00:31:00] branding agency, how do you help?

Make the bigger brands more comfortable and the, and all the other stakeholders that are involved

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Well, you know, I mean, the fact that I came from a development background that I was, I have now I've been the client, I've been the reviewer at the mothership and now I've been a vendor, um, I think helps in that I've seen it from all sides. I know what it requires to underwrite a property. I know what it requires of owners and the investment, both of time and dollars and manpower. To get something either out of the ground or open. Um, and I understand a lot of the fears and the pain points of that development process, having been on that side of it. Um, I went to Marriott and I think that the reason my, my former team would tell you the reason that they brought me aboard was for that outside perspective. It was for the like, tell us more about what our developers are [00:32:00] wanting from us, what they don't want from us, um, what they want us to stay out of and how we can. You know, grow this portfolio of hotels in a way that feels true and genuine to, um, Tribute Portfolios target guest is the modern Maverick, right?

And there's all sorts of metrics and information about, you know, what that, that, guest's mindset looks like. But how do we make sure that because we're affiliated with Marriott, because Tribute Portfolios is affiliated with Marriott, we don't force the Marriott guest. The Marriott loyalist into Tribute Portfolio or try to turn Tribute Portfolio into a vehicle for the Marriott guest, right?

It's okay that, you know, a typical, I'll take my stepdad, for example, he's a lifetime platinum, former road warrior, business traveler. Would he normally, if, if the way back were independent, would he ever find it and book it? Probably not because it is affiliated with Marriott now, and he has status. [00:33:00] Would he stay there and thoroughly enjoy it if introduced to it?

Absolutely. But if we tried to make the Wayback what the courtyard down the street is, we're diluting the equity that is the Wayback brand, right? So it was a lot about how do we protect these independent hotels from their greater organization. While still providing the support that they need in order to be successful, which is the power of the loyalty program, the booking engine, um, you know, the quality, the quality audits to a certain extent, which look very different for a soft branded hotel than for a hard branded hotel. Um, because we, we don't prescribe how you answer the phone, right. Or I say we, like I'm still there. They don't prescribe, um, how you answer the phone. They just want to make sure it's answered in a timely fashion in a way that feels true to, to the brand that you're creating. So. And then ultimately as a consultant, my job is to come in and assure all parties, the brand, if there is one affiliated as a hard brand, or excuse me, a parent [00:34:00] brand, the developer and all the vendor partners related that I'm going to help them find the balance that is still. You know, the right formula for a successful hotel. It's my job to tell Marriott or Hyatt or Hilton when they're overstepping. It's my job to tell the client when they're not rising to the occasion, you know, when something is falling flat or when we need to invest a little bit more money, my goal is always to shift that from another line item in the budget.

Right. But that 360 perspective. having been on the developer side, having been on the reviewer side, and now being a third party is I think one of the superpowers that I now possess just based on my, my job experience. And it's the ability to look at the entirety of not only the development process, but the post opening strategy and the relationship with a parent brand, if there is one. long [00:35:00] term so that what we're developing is cohesive and successful and enigmatic.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: to pull apart and like dive in a bit more to that increase in 120 increase in ADR for the way back. So going from 80 in. Available daily room rate or available daily rate to 200. If you're looking back, so you have the benefit of hindsight now, what percent of that can be attributed to loyalty versus we've created this new independent, I like what you said.

Modern Maverick type hotel, um, and people just kind of stumble into it and find it. Is there, is there a way to look back and, and see how much the guest loyalty, like, added to that?

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: I think it's, I, I, yes. [00:36:00] And I think the answer is It's an occupancy answer, not an ADR answer. Because the way that we developed the way back was developed to be independent. We achieved the attribute portfolio affiliation much later in the design process. And so it was great and exciting in that Marriott has an incredibly powerful company to be affiliated with, right?

They come strong with the Bomboy Network. They have a great booking engine, all of those things. But I think that speaks to occupancy. That doesn't speak to ADR. The ADR, which, hey, one, one without the other means nothing, right? But they provided, um, quantity of guests. They didn't set or indicate the rate that we were able to achieve. The rate that we've been able to achieve is a direct result of the brand we created, the property that we built and designed. Um,

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: So the, oh, that's [00:37:00] interesting. So the brand, The way back in then is able to set rates and be dynamic with their pricing

based on Ah, and that's not really coming from Marriott at all.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: So that's just, just FYI. I mean, as I understand it across all soft brands, the brand does not set any metrics on how hotels need to be priced. So whether that's Hilton Hyatt, Marriott IHG, these hotels are setting their rate. with their revenue management teams, whether internal or outsourced, um, based on their market.

So, I mean, there are properties where, you know, a tribute portfolio may outperform an autograph, which is never the goal of Marriott because autograph is technically the big sister of tribute, right? Just as one example that I can speak to. But no, the rate is, is driven by very extensive early market research, you know, which I, which I help my client with. It's also, you know, we, we look at other aspirational markets. And [00:38:00] say, Hey, you know, when a property like this came into the market, it did really well. And we think we can achieve or command a certain, um, premium on some other comparable stays. Um, you know, we obviously look at both an existing comp set and an aspirational comp set, whether that's in market or market adjacent. Um, yeah, so it's, it's less about, I think Marriott brought the occupancy. Marriott brought the instant scale and awareness.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Okay, so going back to the moment of Genesis with, um, The way back. So your client has a vision, maybe not super clear on how to get there. You help them on the how,

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Yeah, so we, that's where we start at the beginning of the

process is getting

crystal clear on their

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: their vision through branding and just your experience and whatever

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: We do

mood boards, creative exercises, all sorts of things to, to hone in on that.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: What about assembling the [00:39:00] team to actually execute? All of that. How, how do you

go about finding all the different consultants from F and B to design to procurement to, I'm forgetting the pool guy, all those other things,

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Landscape, all of the things. Yeah, so it's, it's a great question. And I think the first, I have created a process that I have, Learned and honed over my, you know, decade plus in the industry, both in development and then watching other hundreds of properties come up and being kind of the reviewer through, through those phases. And step one is always getting really crystal clear on an owner's vision, on a, on a goal for the property, on what we think this thing could be, whether that's imagery, shared vocabulary, um, Because that then helps me source the appropriate team members to answer your question. So many interior designers, I would, I would argue all interior designers, who I love, [00:40:00] will say they can do anything. They can do any aesthetic. They can achieve any price point. They can do it all. And I have found that that is not necessarily true. That certain firms are uniquely suited for certain projects or types of work. And obviously that doesn't apply to some of these, you know, large multinational firms who have, you know, agency all over, but a lot of the smaller firms, they, they're really good at a certain type of project. And I love knowing that. Because eventually I'll have that project and I'll bring that work to them. But I then narrow it down, understanding the creative vision for the property, the budget for the property, whether that's, you know, the budget for fees or the budget for, um, FF& E, soft goods, soft cost, et cetera. I call my list of interior designers, which I don't have like an approved list. I just, I meet people. I interview people. I always ask them what's a perfect project [00:41:00] for you.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: or, or, Jackie says, you need to talk to this person.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Exactly. Jackie is amazing. Jackie is truly amazing. She, uh, she introduced me to a ton of people in the industry like you, but, um, I, I like to know all of the great firms out there and I, do I know them all yet?

No, not, not at all, but I am aiming to. And I want to know what are the projects that they really want to work on? You know, are you a firm that really enjoys ultra luxury? 200 key properties or 500 key properties in Doha. Okay. Good for me to know. Are you a prop? Are you a firm that prefers to work on 50 to a hundred key historic renovations that are, you know, very timeless? Um, or are you more, you know, minimalist? Like I, my job and my passion is to get to know vendors and disciplines across, you know, all areas of our industry and know what they enjoy doing, what they excel at, um, And then I try [00:42:00] to put that, those perfect pieces together, right? So I present three across every discipline to my clients.

We narrow it down. We hire one. I do the onboarding. Um, I manage the design process, you know, so working sessions with my interior designers, um, coordinating things like milestone reviews, um, I'm there constantly to remind people what we are doing. From a creative perspective, what we are hoping to accomplish, who are we building it for? Why are we doing this? You know, um, in service of what? Because oftentimes when you get to. Construction documentation. And the first pricing exercise comes back and the contractor's like, this tile is too expensive. We're like, okay, well we'll do it. They're like, I'll provide an alternate. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. No, the interior design firm will provide an alternate and it'll be fine. And we're like, you know, but that's my job. My job is to hold, um, true to all the work that all these, you know, incredible disciplines are doing in service of opening this hotel.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: [00:43:00] this way back client you had, and then for all the other clients that you've had since putting your own shingle out, um, What is a, a thread or a psychographic or, um, like if you were to look at all, all these successes that you've had, is there something unifying about that type of client that you would try to seek out or that would try to seek you?

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Yeah, um, that's a great question. And I think, you know, one of the things that we say at the Saturday Crowd is that we like to work with clients who are thoughtful, curious, and clever. Um, I think that is an excellent summation. Um, but I also have to be realistic in that, you know, these, these clients also, they want to make money. They are in a business. It is a financial [00:44:00] investment with risk. And my job is to Make the process as pleasant and successful as possible. So I think every single developer I've ever worked with has said to me at some point in the process, well, I'm not a creative, I'm not a, I'm not a creative and I always challenged them in that.

Like everybody has a modicum of creativity,

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Oh, totally. Especially they must have a little bit of vision. They might not be good at expressing it, but if

they're going to collect investors and write a check of their own and get financing and do a, do a project, they, they do have a vision of what they might want that to be. It might not be totally dialed in.

Yeah.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: And it's a sliding scale. It's a sliding scale of how much do they want to push the envelope? Do they really want to do things that are cool and innovative? Or do they want to do something like on a scale of one to ten, um, are you a two? Like, you know, [00:45:00] you wouldn't mind it having an interesting name and a cool sign, but really you just want a XYZ hotel. Or are you a, you know, a ten? Or you like really want to push the limits? You want to do something innovative? I mean, I remember when Citizen M. Entered the chat, right? And they had no people at a check in desk and it was an iPad and everyone was up in arms. Some people thought it was really cool. And some people were like, it's too, you know, they're disrupting too much.

They're rocking the boat. That I would say like for them at that time, that was a 12, right? My perfect client is anywhere between a six and a 10. Cause I would wager if you're at a six, you're on the other side of doing something innovative and cool. And maybe you're just uncomfortable. Cause you don't know what that looks like. And I'm going to help you at whatever level you are comfortable to achieve something interesting and cool, but we don't have to, you know, I don't approach it in a way that some other incredible hotel developers [00:46:00] do who shall remain nameless, but have big names that everyone would recognize where they come in and they're like, it's my way or the highway. It's my show. That's not my job. My job is to help my clients get really clear on what they want and then help them bring it to life. And I am going to push them and I am going to encourage them. Um, But it's really to help them facilitate, like they want to make cool things. Let's let, they want to build something cool.

They want to create a legacy. Let's do that together.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Now, in that 6 to 10 range, actually, let's go with the opposite. In the 1 to 5 range, the not ideal clients, um, how many of those are bringing on branding in their projects versus the 6 to 10s?

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Yeah. So in the, in the, from the branding agency perspective, you know, we've done things like. A restaurant for a hard branded hotel or something. But that one through five is for my consultancy, specifically the Saturday crowd.

We, we work [00:47:00] with, you know, clients who need branding. What I have found in that one to five is those are usually the people who just don't understand the process. and by not understanding the process, they inherently don't value it. so our job is to help them. Get them enthused, you know? Um, but I will say like our branding agency, our studio, you meet us on a Zoom call and like, you might, if you're not, if you're a one to five person, you might be a little intimidated because we're really enthusiastic, you know, we really love what we do and I could see where for someone new to the process, they'd be like, whoa, whoa, these chicks are a lot.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: And where are they all based?

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Oh, we're all over. We're all over the country. So

I'm in Memphis, my business partner and our lead strategist are in Denver, copywriter in Chicago, illustrators all over the country. So, um, we're a fully remote team. Um, we do have an office presence in, in Denver. Um, and we're working, [00:48:00] you know, we just signed a project in Connecticut, one in Washington state, so we're Texas.

We're all over the place.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: cool. Um, if you were to go back to that, well, three is a little bit young, but where you had the idea of wanting to do your own hotel, did that stick with you the entire time? Was that like a driving force or was it, you went on this path and then you were, you, you were like, Oh wow. I. I thought about this when I was younger.

Yeah.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: until much later in my life. Um, early on, I wanted to be an architect, even as, even as a little kid. Um, I used to design houses and, um, you know, other, other tweens, I guess is the term now had like, you know, posters of Leonardo DiCaprio on their wall. I had one of the Biltmore, So I've always had a love of travel, design, architecture, [00:49:00] um, but I don't really know that I ever knew all could come together in this capacity.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: okay. And then as far as kicking off a project, doing, um, assembling the team, making sure all the stakeholders are done, getting the branding, right. Do you have a favorite part of the whole, process, finding the new clients.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: I mean, I really enjoy the part where I get to sit down with a client and really get to know them, you know, and really get to know, like, what are the things that they really enjoy? Um, what are the things that they, you know, really dislike? Also equally important for me to know early, right? Because how catastrophic is it?

And I've lived through this instance when I worked for a developer of like, they had no idea the guy hated them. this particular color owner. I didn't know. He's my boss. I didn't really know this either. We sit in their first, you know, design presentation. He was like, he texts me like, I hate the color green. [00:50:00] I'm like, Oh shit. I didn't know. I had no idea. Like it was my job to lead this team, but I didn't know he didn't like green. And like, so everybody gets real awkward on the call and you know, nobody, you always want to avoid that. So I get to know my clients at the beginning. I want to know, you know, that they are avid outdoorsmen or that they really like the color purple or, you know, they're more minimalist than, um, you know, curated and, and styled.

And it's, those are things that are valuable that also helps me establish rapport for them because I do tell my clients, we better get along cause we're going to be together for a while. And we're going to have to have some difficult conversations. Um, but I'm happy to say that all the clients that I've worked with to date, um, that we've finished projects with in my consultancy are friends. Um, and I'm auntie to a couple of their kids that have been, you know, had through the process. Like, so I just enjoy building that rapport with them. I like getting to know them. I like [00:51:00] helping their vision come to life. My second part of the favorite part of the process is, um, when we open the hotel and they're just really proud. You know, the like, the in between gets sticky. There are periods of time, you know, that are probably my less, least favorite, but the opening, the beginning and the end are definitely the best part, my opinion.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Awesome. And then, um, if you were to kind of do a look back on your clients and past and even the future ones that you're, you're looking at and getting to know better, are they all hotel people or do they, are they mostly commercial real estate or residential and they want to get into hotel? If you were to like make a spectrum about them for those, the type of clients that you've worked with and ideally would want to work with.

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Sure. Yeah. So early on in the process, it was developers who are seasoned hoteliers, but maybe more in the hard brand or select service space. And they have a passion for Independent [00:52:00] hotels, boutique hotels, lifestyle hotels, and they want to get into that, they want to explore it and they just don't really know where to start because it is a much more nuanced process than say franchising a Hampton Inn or a courtyard. Um, that was early on, I think. And, and look, I love working with those clients because they're passionate about this part of the business. They're avid consumers of, and collectors of boutique and lifestyle hotels in their personal life. Which is how they even know to look for me. They found me because they stayed at one of my other hotels.

They've asked an owner. An owner said, couldn't have done it without Ashley Caller. And those are, you know, have been some of my best, my best customers to date and are still lifelong clients. Um, I would love to begin working with, you know, larger companies as well, who, who may be more comfortable taking even more risk. You know, resort style properties or [00:53:00] creating a new micro chain scale brand, that's going to disrupt the industry in some capacity. Um, I think that would be aspirational, but truthfully, anybody who wants to rock the boat a little bit, anybody who wants to do something a little different, even if that's just respective of their own market is somebody I'm interested in working with.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Fantastic. And then, um, That's, I mean, I like the idea of rocking the boat because again, it keeps you up in that six to 10 area of the spectrum and kind of all, and that's for me where things are always creative where we're, we're just creating and iterating and solving new problems. I'm totally into that.

And, um, hey, if people wanted to learn more about you or how to get started or, or look at projects that you've done, what's a good way for them to do that?

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: Yeah, thank you. It's, um, best way is probably my website, which is aepconsulting. com. [00:54:00] Um, you can reach me there on LinkedIn. Um, yeah, happy to make new friends in the industry and just have, you know, interesting conversation.

oh, and I would be remiss if I didn't mention the Saturday crowd. Um, which again is just the saturday crowd.com. Uh, fantastic branding studio and uh, yeah,

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: cool. This is a super fantastic and it's so nice. And I thank you for just. Putting yourself out here and sharing, um,

how you do things. Cause I think of so much of the feedback we get, oftentimes we don't hear how the table gets set before designers or purchasers or brands get signed on. And it's just interesting to hear how.

You help organize all of that and then help execute it and bring it to life. So it's a little bit more, um, I don't know, just like a, a look further into the beginning of the, of the process. [00:55:00] And, um, and it's great to hear about all of your success and I can't wait to hear about all of your next successes.

So

ashley-ewing-parrott--she-her-_1_12-06-2024_112830: You very much.

Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

dan-ryan_37_12-06-2024_122830: Yeah. And thank you to all of our listeners. Cause without you, we wouldn't be here talking with the likes of Ashley and learning so much more about our industry. So please don't forget to like comment, subscribe, pass it along. If this made you think differently or you think someone else could benefit from it, um, we appreciate you all and thank you.