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Conversations With Thomas is a podcast where humor, heart, and a touch of sass collide. Hosted by Thomas Kevin Dolan, each episode explores raw, real topics like self-compassion, healing, and the delightful mess of being human. As the seventh of ten kids, Thomas didn’t always have a voice—now he’s sharing it with you, and trust us, you’ll want to hear this.
Expect vulnerability, laughs, and thought-provoking questions that dive into subjects most people avoid (because, let's face it, some topics just need to be tackled). With a mix of wit and wisdom, Thomas takes you on a journey where you might cry, you might laugh, and you’ll definitely feel a little more connected to yourself and the world.
New episodes drop every 2nd and 4th Monday. Tune in for a dose of honesty, heart, and just the right amount of quirky.
Welcome. My name is Thomas. My pronouns are he and him. This is my 26th podcast of
season one of Conversations with Thomas, and I'm really excited that you're going to
share this time with me. How often have you heard quotes like these? Keep burning
those bridges. It's going to be lonely on that island of yours. Don't burn bridges
you may want to cross later, or here's my favorite. Don't burn a bridge and expect
them to send a boat. Usually this is pretty sound advice. The one thing they all
are missing from my perspective is that little asterisk that points to a disclaimer.
The disclaimer would be this. Unless that bridge is so screwed up that it might
collapse and kill you at any moments. Sometimes you need to burn bridges in order
to stop yourself from crossing them again. That certainly has been my case a lot of
times in my lifetime. After 35 years of friendship, this is what the text read.
"Congrats on this new chapter of your life. The book looks amazing. I've given some
thought and think it's time to end this chapter of our lives." That was nearly two
years ago now and I've never heard from that friend again. Clearly, his way of
burning a bridge. It took me a couple of days, realizing that he'd never want to
talk, he didn't want to engage with me, to reply with a text that simply said,
perhaps my version of burning a bridge. I choose to let go lightly and added a
heart emoji. My husband asked me when I told him the subject matter for this
podcast, bridge burning, "Aren't you going to talk about bridge building?" I gently
said, "No." And added, "I will talk about all the ways I can see now how I need
it to burn bridges." But was busy being a people pleaser and couldn't find the
ovaries to be brave enough. Ovaries are so much stronger than balls. I never really
learned how to let go of anything and so I never let go of anything. I would
fight, I would struggle, I would hurt when I lost things, people in relationships.
This quickly became my Achilles heel. I would let people walk all over me and treat
me like a wastebasket because I wouldn't let them go. I convinced myself that it
was better to stay then leave because who else was going to love me like they did?
I wonder if you know what this feels like.
To me at points in my life, these people were my everything and so I couldn't
imagine my life without them. I've had some extraordinary bridge -burning teachers in
my life. When I came out in 1988, An entire world burned a bridge to me,
and I can see now that they burned that bridge with me because the pain was too
difficult for them to face the authentic version of who it is I at some level had
actually taught them that I was. I had a dear friend who I'd asked to work on a
collection of stories that would eventually become my book. And when I offered to
honor them, they burned a bridge with me. They were really insulted, I would do
that. Another friend had a new podcast, really successful, and asked for some
feedback around adding quote -unquote a celebrity. And my caution was just to not do
that from an egotistical perspective. She brought a bridge with me. And I realized
that, hmm, perhaps the feedback that I gave her was a little bit too close to the
truth, her stuff not mine. And then finally a friend who had sent a Valentine's Day
message a year or so ago, February of 2024, and I simply relayed back the Hawaiian
experience of Valentine's Day that relates to the death of Captain James Cook,
a colonizer here in these islands with a claim in '78 that he discovered these
islands. He made the mistake of crossing a Hawaiian chief and ultimately it cost him
his life. So to the Hawaiians, Valentine's Day has a cultural slant to it that's
very different than what the cultural slant would be for North America. So this
person burned a bridge with me and I realized now, ah, sometimes it's difficult for
people to hold a truth that actually they're not ready to hear. Again, not my
stuff, But great examples for me to see how it is that it at times is important
to burn a bridge. So clearly the universe had a message for me that for the
longest time I was unwilling to learn because there were folks in my life I needed
to burn bridges with, but I was really scared. And of course as the years went by,
I started to love myself more. I started to create me being the priority and my
well -being being the priority, I gradually found myself lacking the energy for
meaningless friendships, forced interactions as I call them or unnecessary
conversations. It soon became clear to me that I was the one that needed to
redefine my understanding of love and friendships. What I really needed to burn was
my old paradigm for how to best love myself. When I wrote that, when I pen these
notes, that was really painful for me. What I really needed to burn was my old
paradigm for how to best love myself.
As holding on to these toxic relationships, even out of familiarity or fear of being
alone, it only ever Left my heart broken and I finally realized the importance of
burning bridges was necessary clinging to those friendships or relationships slowly
based on Memories or longevity didn't make any sense remember that 35 year old
friendship I had That was burnt in a text message. I had made up a story that it
was supposed to last my lifetime and was there solely and
existed because there was 35 years of a foundation of a friendship that I thought
was unshakable. Clearly that was completely wrong in my part. So in whatever
relationship you or I are in or whatever aspect of life you find yourself in, The
equation is this. We need to love ourselves first before anything or anyone else.
And for some of you with a value for being guided by Holy Scripture, here's a
gentle reminder of what the Bible says. "Love thy neighbor as yourself,
not more than or less than, but as yourself." It's even commanded to us in that
Holy Scripture, and I'm sure and other holy scriptures it's written in perhaps a
similar way.
I have remembered my high school days. In high school I was part of this friend
group where I could tell at times I didn't really fit in. They were all jocks not
that I wasn't in high school but these folks had a propensity to breathe lots of
life into toxic masculinity And for this closeted, super sensitive gay boy,
it was actually hell. I knew deep down that I wasn't wanted there,
but I convinced myself that they cared about me in some actually really twisted
ways. I even blame myself for the awkward moments that sometimes happened.
I think it was all my fault. Truth is, I didn't really love myself enough back
then. And that messed up the idea of what love should be.
I stuck with toxic friendships and pretended it was no big deal. But deep down,
it was crushing me emotionally. Being in that space just broke my heart.
Maturity for me was when I started to realize that everybody isn't my friend.
And just because they would hang around me, laugh with me, at times laugh at me
and listen to me, doesn't make them my friends. People pretend well.
And honestly, only real situations will expose fake people. You just gotta pay
attention. I've learned that people show you who they are from the very beginning,
but I decide to make excuses for their actions, and then I take the long route to
see what was really there, what's the expression. Believe them when they show you
who they are. I know now to burn a bridge as needed, to not hold on to
friendships or relationships just because of the memories and how long I've known
them. Those friendships that have lasted 10 to 15 years or more can be actually the
hardest to let go of. But the more time passes, the more hurt you're gonna get.
So learning to burn the bridge is actually really important. And I'm not gonna act
like losing friends isn't hard or ending a relationship is easy peasy because one of
the hardest things about ending any relationship is literally the ability, someone you
thought lived in your heart actually lived there in a more meaningful way. But
slowly and surely we've got to listen and learn that some ships aren't meant to be
no matter how much we love them. You can't love two of you for both of you.
And at the end of the day, If your absence doesn't bother them, then your presence
on some level never really mattered to them. Don't wait until all of your heart is
burned before you choose to actually burn a bridge in a relationship that on perhaps
many levels isn't working for you. Letting go can seem cruel to some people,
especially if there is a strong emotional bond that's present in that relationship.
I remember chatting with folks about this notion of creating a bridge -burning
ceremony for myself, which was part of my grief, was part of my loss, was part of
my healing. It is not selfish to burn bridges when the person on the other end is
actually feeding off your soul. In fact, deliberately moving toxic people from your
life is a big sign of self -love and respect for your personal needs.
So I have it land in this column, and you've heard this before. It's not about
bridge burning being selfish. It at times in my life, and I'm sure as I move
forward in my life, it'll be a really self -full act for me to let go of some of
those relationships that perhaps are only causing me pain. I wanted to share some
signs that may be in place for you to learn when perhaps it's the right time to
burn a bridge and move on. And in no particular order,
the folks you're connected with, they don't show interest in your thoughts, opinions
or needs. Your relationship is very lopsided. This person has a me first,
you second attitude. A second one is this, they emanate constant negativity. You
notice they nitpick, they whine, they criticize, they judge, and they moan about you
and other people all the time. They're like a damp heavy blanket suffocating your
soul. The third would be this, they don't encourage your freedom. This for me is a
major red flag. If the other person is controlling and authoritative, I back away
slowly.
They twist the truth. You struggle to trust this person because they've lied to you
so much in the past. This person has repeatedly broken your trust and is not
transparent with you. The fifth would be this. They don't prioritize your
relationship. Even when you've Ask them to uphold their side of the relationship.
They still end up prioritizing other things over you.
They create constant drama. Even something goes well for them, they quickly find
something else to be unhappy about. The seventh would be this. They actually
literally feed off your energy. They might enjoy provoking you to elicit a response
that makes them feel like they have power over you. You also feel very tired around
them and almost sucked into their gravitational pull. Here be what I call an energy
vampire.
They relentlessly need you. Not only do you have to take care of your needs,
but you feel as though you have to take care of their needs as well. They seem
hell -bent and intent on clinging on to you. The night would be this,
and this for me would be a cardinal sin. I watched it in the relationship between
my father and my mother.
A bridge burning is in place when they physically hurt you. They've hit you, hurt
you in some way, physically.
Sure, they may have apologized, But your trust and your confidence around them have
been broken. For me, physical abuse is a crystal clear sign that it's time to move
on and burn a bridge. And that would be a forever burn bridge. The 10th,
they make you want to hide your true self. You've tried being relaxed and open
around this person, but you're met with coldness, criticism, judgment. And as a
result, you may have resorted to hiding your true self and wearing a mask. I spent
a long time with many masks on to ensure people didn't see or get a sense that I
was gay, hung onto many relationships where the authentic version of me never showed
up, never showed up. Try this for the 11th. They manipulate you.
You feel emotionally blackmailed or even gaslit. Sometimes you even feel like you're
the abuser when in fact the other is just playing mind games with you. And finally
to wrap up this dozen,
they intentionally hold you back. They don't want you to change. They don't want you
to reach your full potential. And for that, they're afraid of being left behind.
And of course, there's an old truism, misery loves company.
My school of integrative coaching, which is based in Jungian psychology, relies on me
supporting clients and identifying when it is they're projecting on other people. Like
this notion of seeing something in somebody else which is really a reflection of
what's going on in themselves. So in the most honest and authentic and brave way,
I want to take and turn these major signs and let you know, right, let you know
about the ways that this banter that I've said, how others are actually doing these
things to me is really a reflection of what I'm doing to myself. And here's the
way they're all really about me. And this is how I've gotten the lesson from these
teachers in my life that have burned bridges with me. The first one, they don't
show interest in your thoughts, opinions, and needs. I wasn't showing interest in my
thoughts, opinions, and needs. The second, they emanate constant negativity. Yeah,
you guessed it. I was being negative towards myself. The third, they don't encourage
your freedom. I never encourage my own bloody freedom. The fourth,
they twist the truth. I lied to myself constantly and many others all the time.
The fifth, they don't prioritize your relationship. I didn't make myself the priority.
The sixth, they create constant drama. My life was full of drama.
Number seven, they feed off your energy. I fed off their energy as a people
pleaser. They're relentlessly needy. I had an energetic PhD in neediness.
The ninth, they physically hurt you. There is no doubt on some level with the
things I was doing that I physically hurt myself. And of course, the tenth, they
make you want to hide your true self. Yeah, bust it. I had many aspects of my
authentic self. The 11th, they manipulate you. Another energetic PhD.
So good at manipulating other people, so good at manipulating and controlling other
people. So I was busy being the manipulator. And finally the 12th,
they intentionally hold you back. You can only get a sense, I'm sure, of how I've
held myself back in so many ways. Because when you don't believe you deserve much,
you actually don't get much. So even if you're experiencing any of these signs,
perhaps it's time to seriously consider the possibility that it's time to move on,
that that relationship that you're in doesn't work for you. You can actually trial
the relationship. You can create some space and distance and see how you feel before
you consider burning the bridge. I've done that in many instances. one with a dear
friend here at Honolulu, where I took some time away when I felt like I needed to
actually not have the relationship anymore. And in that three months, nothing changed.
So I burnt that bridge. After all,
nothing. Let me, let me frame it here. What I want to say. Everything changes.
Nothing lasts. And sadly, sadly, for a long time in my life, I fought any change,
and I really, ignorantly, and maybe naively, believed it was all going to last.
Because at that time, when a relationship was toxic for me, I think a part of me
thought I deserved that toxic relationship. And perhaps these signs will gently awaken
you to the possibility that it's time to open a new chapter of your life. When
I've closed some relationships, it's allowed me to energetically open other
relationships. So today I see those people as teachers in my life that I've said
goodbye to. And please know that feelings like stress and shame and grief are all
normal reactions to a relationship that you may need to disappear in your life, that
you may need to burn a bridge to. I've chosen to grieve many relationship losses,
and by doing so, have found so many lessons for myself. When I burned bridges,
I felt immense emotional and psychological turmoil for many months. Yet the relief
from having disappeared those relationships far exceeds the shit I put myself through.
My wish for you is this. May you find a semblance of freedom for yourself that you
richly deserve. And may you remember that your heart and soul are stronger than you
think. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching.