What Architecture Employers Actually Look For

Architecture practices are rarely taught how to balance design ambition, client relationships and commercial reality. Markus Seifermann of Seifermann Architects explains how adaptability, collaboration and a willingness to learn have shaped a multidisciplinary studio.

They get into winning unfamiliar projects, building a people-focused team, diversifying into film and events, hiring for entrepreneurial thinking, rebranding the practice and using AI without handing over responsibility. The conversation offers practical lessons for architects and designers navigating clients, careers, technology and the changing expectations of practice.

Markus Seifermann on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markusseifermann/

Seifermann Architects: https://www.seifermann.london/

_____

▶️ Watch this episode on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHD0iadj0Oc

Architecture Social is where architects and designers find honest career advice, insight from practice, and live roles worth applying for:
https://architecturesocial.com/

The fastest way to get hired is to be better at the things practices actually ask for. Revit, Rhino, rendering, BIM, portfolio work. Our learning partner ArchAdemia is built by architects, for architects:
https://archademia.com/architecture-s...

Use code ARCHSOCIAL10 for a discount on monthly or annual membership.

_____

Chapters:
00:00 Starting an architecture practice
04:04 Winning the first major project
08:32 Creativity and commercial reality
10:43 Diversifying into film and events
15:21 Collaboration and unconventional hiring
19:38 Applications and interview advice
23:11 Rebranding the architecture practice
26:33 Mentoring and future careers
29:44 Young people questioning AI and careers
31:42 Managing different client relationships
34:36 Designing without a house style
36:16 Using AI as an architectural tool
40:34 Why architectural education must change
43:25 Projects and getting in touch

#Architecture #ArchitectureStudent #Architect #ArchitecturePodcast

Creators and Guests

Host

Stephen Drew

Hello! I’m Stephen Drew, Founder of the Architecture Social—an online community and resource hub dedicated to helping professionals in Architecture, Design, Development, and Real Estate advance their careers. I’m here to connect you with insights, tools, and opportunities that lead to meaningful growth, whether you’re just starting out or ready to take that next big step.

What is Architecture Social?

Architecture has always been social. Careers should be too.

Hosted by Stephen Drew, the Architecture Social podcast brings you honest conversations from across the UK built environment. Architects, practice leaders and the people shaping the profession talk openly about their careers, their work and how practice really runs.

Expect straight talk on salaries, portfolios, hiring, progression and running a practice, from Part 1 students looking for their first role to directors building their teams.

Architecture Social is more than jobs and hiring. It's a place to share work, discover opportunities, hear honest conversations and build connections across the industry.

This is Architecture Social. Come and be part of it.

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:24:31
Unknown
Hello everyone, I am in Farrington today. As you know, this is not my office. I am visiting someone that I've respected online for a while now. I've also rebranded and done super cool things and it's inspirational for me as a part two that's gone on to do different things, to see someone and some amazing team practicing architecture, but also doing some super cool, interesting things on the side.

00:00:24:31 - 00:00:51:21
Unknown
So I'm very excited to be here with the fantastic Marcus Cipher Man architect. And so it's Cipher Man Architects and the Space Opera. I'm so excited to be here. Marcus, how are you today? You okay? And thanks for having me. It's brilliant. Yeah. I really appreciate your invitation. So can you tell me a little bit? First of all, so many years ago, you set up your practice, which at the time was a different name, and we're going to go on to the rebrand.

00:00:51:26 - 00:01:21:40
Unknown
It's already cool stuff. But there was that moment that you decided you were going to set up your studio. Tell me about that moment, because I think you, you you're also part you're co-director is your wife at the moment, isn't husband and wife team and a fantastic team around us. So we are 1012 people at the moment. We are 12, have been bigger, have been smaller, have seen good things, the bad things, everything.

00:01:21:45 - 00:01:46:28
Unknown
And yeah, I mean in a nutshell, we came to to London 12 know 22 years ago. Wow. 22 years ago. Originally the plan was to study at the Bartlett at UCL, which I did, and then I was meant to go either back to to Stuttgart. We are both from Germany originally, but my family lives in Toronto, so I also have like a base camp there.

00:01:46:28 - 00:02:08:09
Unknown
And I also had the opportunity to go back to Toronto. But we are all and we are both still here after 22 years. So that's that's the very short story, I love it. So did you both decide while you were studying at The Bartlett that you always wanted to do your own practice, or did it kind of happen organically then?

00:02:08:14 - 00:02:31:55
Unknown
It's probably a combination of both. I always worked for very large practices back in Stuttgart for and partner. They were the architects of the big Olympic stadium in Munich originally. I mean, that's many, many decades ago. And in Toronto I worked for a big firm and also in London I worked for a big firm I worked for, for major architects, for and with Ken Shuttleworth and his team, which was a fantastic time.

00:02:31:57 - 00:03:00:50
Unknown
Absolutely fantastic there. And my wife worked for another firm, Austin Smith Lord, and at some point we started looking into possibilities and one of the big first kickstarts was an exhibition for the library in Zurich, which was actually a result of my master's work at the Bartlett. It was about a Swiss author who was an author at an architect at the same time, Max Frisch.

00:03:00:52 - 00:03:29:57
Unknown
Yeah. And they turned it into the annual exhibition. And I think it was 2008, and there was a start there. And then later on we looked into more different things and started working on small projects in London. And one thing led to the other, and now we are we're still sitting here. Well, it's amazing because the fact that you got 12 members, staff, as you openly said, you have to move, pivot and evolve.

00:03:30:00 - 00:03:51:57
Unknown
So I had 5 to 6 members of staff. So I want to learn how you got there. But just before I do. Do you remember by any chance how you got your first client through your business? What was that like? Was it the exhibition you talked about, or do you remember the first time where you got a client that you'd never met before and they went, we want you to be our architect.

00:03:52:00 - 00:04:29:19
Unknown
To remember that moment and what it was like. One of the very first projects was actually a TV studio refurbishment on Birdcage Walk, which is just a close to Buckingham Palace and a TV studio in a in a great tool listed building, which is the case there. It's not something which goes together very well in the first place, and they needed a refurbishment and we applied and we we won the job based on the fact that we knew how we deal with a listed building in a way, but never have ever touched a TV studio.

00:04:29:19 - 00:04:53:12
Unknown
So in the page they asked, say, you're so young. What are you doing here? And and the second question was like, have you ever done a TV studio? And the answer was no, no, never. So they gave us the job and they had to train us in TV's studio technology and what it means to build a TV studio that we understand what we are dealing with.

00:04:53:12 - 00:05:12:43
Unknown
But yes, there was trust. Then there was the teaching steep learning curve, and then they allowed us to do it. Yes. Brilliant. And so in that moment when you you were like, congratulations, you want it. So you get the excitement and then. Yeah. How do you then structure a team or do it all yourself on that first project.

00:05:12:43 - 00:05:33:02
Unknown
Do you remember trying because you've won the project, but now you've got to deliver it. So how did you how did you do that? I think in most of the cases, the celebrations for winning a project and that that heightened feeling is usually very short lived because you wake up the other morning and you're like, oh my God, how do I do this?

00:05:33:04 - 00:05:54:27
Unknown
Right? Because in a way, you either have never done it before or it's very big or the client is very demanding. So it's always like, how do I do this? Right? Yeah. And and I think this is something we, we actually enjoy that moment and then see how we can do it and getting a right team together. And I think we have a fantastic team here.

00:05:54:28 - 00:06:35:24
Unknown
Absolutely hardworking but also fun. Yeah. And it's all about that's what I've learned over the years. Going back to the question, how do you put it together? They're all people's person like they're all very approachable, nice, humble human beings who are all liked by the clients. And I think with that, you're already kind of 80, 90% there. The actual architecture, the technical bit, the design, everything to do what you consider architecture is it's not easy, but it's a lot easier if the chemistry is right between you, the team and the client.

00:06:35:36 - 00:06:57:02
Unknown
I think with that you have already one half of the project. Fair enough. And then what I love is I can just feel your energy. So go and like that surely as well without not interested in that. But you mentioned you got the highs and the short lives and then you've got those tricky moments. And as a business owner myself, you have to keep pushing on, don't you?

00:06:57:07 - 00:07:17:14
Unknown
Was there a few times where there were things you overcome and like, how do you push on through a difficult project to kind of get on to the next one? I think it's important that you always question everything and anything. Yeah. And you're also constantly changing, especially in a time when you feel it's all good and great and it's safe.

00:07:17:14 - 00:07:51:55
Unknown
I think these are the most dangerous times, because you could always fall back onto that cozy feeling that everything is good. And then you need to question what can I improve still and what can be different tomorrow. It's not like trying to predict what's coming, but I think it's very important, especially in architecture and in any creative job that you're constantly seeing, where you where's the market and you're constantly up for change and adapting and and amending the ship and yourself and your skills and everybody to be always flexible.

00:07:51:57 - 00:08:18:38
Unknown
Yeah. There was me and Ben talked about this before as well. But like, you know, when you're creative, you touched upon it there the moment you're it's kind of easy. It's almost safe. And then maybe the innovation is dying. And then how do you constantly keep that balance between, like, all the super cool experimentation that you do research and development on this projects, but also pay the bills at the same time?

00:08:18:38 - 00:08:45:12
Unknown
How do you balance the two worlds? That's a that's a very good question. And as an architect, it's it's one of the hardest bits. Interestingly, no one teaches you that, right? Yeah. I think every architect on this planet comes out of university with almost no clue how to do all that. Right? Yeah. Don't need to talk about all the nitty gritty stuff which is needed for an office.

00:08:45:14 - 00:09:19:12
Unknown
You know, the finances, the HR. Yeah, the texts, the R&D claim. What is that? You know, what do I do with it? But you have no clue. On day one, you literally don't know and you have to learn it. You have to find out. You have to speak to other people who've done it already. Yeah. And then you feel like you need to get this balance right, because between a creativity and what the client wants from you, as in like a super service and a great product, great design, but also a technically correct design.

00:09:19:12 - 00:09:39:50
Unknown
But everything has to also work for you on a business level. Yeah, financially. And I think over the time you become just a little bit more, well, first of all aware of it and then also more hard nosed about it. Right. So you'll watch, you have a very keen eye on the hours you spend on the projects or on certain tasks.

00:09:39:52 - 00:10:15:52
Unknown
Yeah. And then you calculate backwards. So you basically have to give yourself a framework for your creativity. Yeah. To basically monitor it that you're not just going overboard and then making no money at all, because it is important to get that bit right, to keep the company going so that it can it can move on and develop. One of the things that I find quite inspiring about yourself, though, is that of course, you're passionate about architecture, but you kind of did a brave thing, which is to diversify the business, and you've got a few different businesses as well.

00:10:16:02 - 00:10:32:16
Unknown
One of the things that caught my eye and why I'm happy you invited me here, because I was like, I saw this thing pop up like space opera. And I'm like, what the heck is space opera? I would love to hear that journey because we got cipher men, we got space opera. And then one of two things as well.

00:10:32:21 - 00:10:54:07
Unknown
What was that moment you were like, right, I'm going to diversify. But also, should we tell the audience what you do alongside the architecture practice? Yeah. I mean, my wife and I, Daniela and I, we started as, as architects and that's what we are as a trained architect. Right. Yeah. And.

00:10:54:12 - 00:11:00:24
Unknown
A few years ago I also studied film parallel to architecture.

00:11:00:28 - 00:11:24:19
Unknown
Not in a way that I ever thought I would become a full time filmmaker. There was a plan at some point in my life, but I took the architectural route. But film was so important that I wanted to incorporate it into into the business we are creating or which we think we should create. Right. And at the same time, I learned that was confusing clients, right?

00:11:24:31 - 00:11:54:14
Unknown
You're not doing architecture, are you? Doing film? Which is this? What's going on? Yeah. There's nothing worth worse than confusing clients, right? And they go like, hold on. What is this guy doing? Right. Yeah. So we we started a second company, which is space opera. Not not only because we thought we should, but there were clients coming to us saying, hey, you have done our private house and we have this big, you know, housewarming party, like, on a very high level, right?

00:11:54:19 - 00:12:18:07
Unknown
Can you organize it, like with all sorts of input, like there was one with a private screening of a film, a film producers party. We've done something in Portugal together with Aston Martin and with Lotus. Nice. And these are things which we said we should not confuse the clients. We set up another another company, which is Space Opera for event design.

00:12:18:07 - 00:12:44:28
Unknown
And it's very all about films and video production, but also events, events for people, film premiere parties, all sorts of things. And we have split it from the architects practice. So there's cipher one and then there is Space Opera. And personally I love that because it's it's influencing each other. It's basically getting your brain juices going during the day and you go like, what is this?

00:12:44:31 - 00:13:13:00
Unknown
What is that? How can it how can it be linked together? Yeah, but as businesses, they are two entities. Nice. There was something you touched upon there because your backgrounds. And tell me if I'm getting this right. So was in film. Are you studied film before you went into architecture? Is that correct? Architecture first, architecture first. My Daniella, my wife and I, we both studied architecture in in South Germany, in Konstanz.

00:13:13:00 - 00:13:37:43
Unknown
That's very close to the Swiss border. We close to Zurich as well. Yeah, yeah. And so we are both classical architects, if you want to call it like that. Okay. Then I did my masters at the Berkeley here. Yeah. And shortly after I did film classes here in London at at Raindance. He's actually an Eliot Grove. He said, our brain dance as a kind of counterpart to Sundance, right?

00:13:37:45 - 00:14:08:07
Unknown
Yeah. It's a it's a very amazing and nice community of independent filmmakers. And that's where I did all the lessons for, you know, from camera work to directing to to everything. I love that. So do you think so that experience you mentioned, you got the community and you're passionate about it. Do you think then as an architect, getting involved in things which aren't in the direct, traditional role of one, part two, part three?

00:14:08:12 - 00:14:39:24
Unknown
That's what we do. And do you think, like all those skills and experiences that you live from other sides actually enhances the architecture that you do? Oh, absolutely. I think this is all what it is about. Yeah. We never wanted to be typecast as an architect. Architects practice with a certain style, a certain look and feel. I know you can become very successful if you do that, but we're not interested in that as as human beings, right?

00:14:39:28 - 00:15:02:07
Unknown
That we carve out our, our style. So for us, it's mainly about the people. It's also about people's relationships, us with the clients. How do we get along, what does the client want? And we keep on saying we are building the projects for the clients, not for us. It's not our house. It's also not our office. Later on, we're not sitting in that office and we're not sleeping in that bedroom.

00:15:02:09 - 00:15:32:24
Unknown
It's declines bedroom, house, office, whatever. And that's how we do that. And what what we learned from film, for example, is how you collaborate with people. I think there is a lot of things which you can learn if you if you cross-reference different creative sectors and fields for us, for me in particular, it was always film. Yeah. And give you one example very early on.

00:15:32:28 - 00:15:55:43
Unknown
And we did something which which which we call the speed bug effect. And what I mean by that is I wanted to find out before someone becomes super superstar famous. Right. And on that blockbuster level. How did they do it when they were 20 or 25? Yeah. And Spielberg, for example, he did jaws when he was 27 or 28.

00:15:55:45 - 00:16:18:38
Unknown
Now imagine that. It's crazy. It's not a household name. It's not a big name. You know? Now it's just a 27 year old guy and an amazing film. Absolutely. Yeah. Top favorite. So and he did something early on. He always surrounded himself with established talent, meaning very often people who were older than him and already way more established.

00:16:18:38 - 00:16:47:39
Unknown
John Williams, for example. Composer. Really? Okay. And these people who were already in the market had their contacts, were amazing in what they are doing. They pulled pulled the whole thing further up. Of course, he was crazy talented. That's another story, right? Yeah, yeah, but it always worked. And I saw that with other people. If they surrounded them early on with with people they could learn from, look up to them, collaborate.

00:16:47:40 - 00:17:14:14
Unknown
And we quite often won a project or got into a door because we had that effect, because we surrounded ourselves with a structural engineer, let's say, you know, or a cost consultant who was super established 100 times bigger than us, a household name. But then we were a small fish within that team. But the whole team together made it.

00:17:14:26 - 00:17:42:16
Unknown
Yeah. So cool. I there's when you were speaking, there's a quote that I've heard which I found really important is that you are the product of the five people that you surround yourself with. So in business, yeah, like you said, I put a lot of value on meeting connections and learning. And equally, it can go the other way if someone's being negative towards things and that's probably not conducive of the environment you want to experiment around.

00:17:42:19 - 00:18:17:48
Unknown
One of the things that strikes me when we came in is that you mentioned, I think, the part one in the studio here. It's a great guy. His background wasn't in architecture before he came here. He was in marketing and he does architecture as well. And so as an employer, when you look into construct your team in that sense as well, do you think that when people have kind of gone later to architecture and done something different, is there a massive value in having people that have done other industries as well in the team environment?

00:18:17:50 - 00:18:44:07
Unknown
Yeah, we we often find ourselves hiring someone completely different to what we thought, who we who we will hire, even example, we're looking for, let's say an interior designer because everybody cries. We need an interior designer for that job and another job and oh my God, we need an interior designer. Then we are hiring and we go through the process, and then we hire a guy from marketing.

00:18:44:12 - 00:19:09:12
Unknown
But there is an appetite. He's hungry. Or she and there is skills or there is, you know, just it's a joy to work with them. Yeah. This doesn't always work. If, you know, if you need somebody who needs to draw technical details and they need to be 100% correct and compliant, you cannot just go anywhere and hire somebody.

00:19:09:26 - 00:19:26:28
Unknown
That needs to be the balance. The balance. Absolutely. But very often on the more softer sides and more on the design sides, we hire people from from outside. We have hired we had people here. Historians, journalists.

00:19:26:33 - 00:19:50:40
Unknown
People from marketing, right? People from film. But they also they are fully part of of the architectural business. Yeah. Okay. Got you. So it seems to be a certain attitude and a certain hunger and people, it seems like an unconventional road to architecture. Maybe they would do really well here while we were on this subject talking about hiring what you look for.

00:19:50:40 - 00:20:10:43
Unknown
Because part of as you mentioned, when you're a business owner, you need someone. You've got that idea in your head. But for anyone here and this can be like decipherment cheat sheet. So if anyone's thinking of applying, this is probably a good moment to look at him. What initially. Because when applications come through and they're on the digital screen.

00:20:10:43 - 00:20:38:55
Unknown
So before you meet people, what in the CV or portfolio typically grabs your attention or an application, how do we and you're a busy man, grab your attention. First of all for an interview that is that's again a very, very good question and not an easy one to answer. Yeah, but I believe what Daniela and I and also our senior associates.

00:20:38:55 - 00:21:12:40
Unknown
And so what we are looking for is somebody with a certain entrepreneurial spirit, even before the best skills on the planet. Right. And that comes from a thinking that we are teaming up even the youngest members of the team with the clients early on directly. So we send them to site. I mean, they learn from the more experienced once, but it's not that we we only have the client contacts, our students, they speak to the clients.

00:21:12:43 - 00:21:35:12
Unknown
Right. And you can only do that if you have a certain mindset. And I would say that's an entrepreneurial mindset to be able to a deal with a client, speak to the client. Yeah. And hear and feel into the client what they want, what they really want. That might not be what they say. Yeah, yeah. And all these interpersonal skills.

00:21:35:14 - 00:22:00:21
Unknown
Yeah. Just being a happy person, a very open person. And then it's like, I think they need this and that just by reading the room, not necessarily discussing it. Yeah. And then going from there I think that's amazing. And generally we are very kind of a very happy office I would say. Yeah. Very colorful. That's how we like it.

00:22:00:21 - 00:22:25:33
Unknown
And we are not looking for someone who is academically trained to, to the highest, highest levels. Yeah, we are looking for very good all rounders who can hold the room or a certain discussion or a client. Yeah. Fair enough. Maybe one thing I'd love your opinion on is because interviews, especially when I'd never done one before, or you've done 1 or 2, the idea of it.

00:22:25:33 - 00:22:58:48
Unknown
I used to get very nervous. I know I talk a lot now, but I used to get very nervous. Do you have any, like, tips or tricks for anyone if they're interviewing you or in general, that they should do when they come into an interview, by any chance? Absolutely. I would say the best, the best attitude is that you never pretend to be something else, somebody else, or trying to to hide something.

00:22:58:50 - 00:23:18:40
Unknown
Or if you don't know the answer, I mean, we have this. You get you get interviewed in any in any client meeting, every client meeting like four, four, four, two hours, you know, like every, every question you're still interviewing even though it's basically happening the whole day. Yeah. So if you don't know it, just say that I don't I don't know this.

00:23:18:40 - 00:23:35:33
Unknown
I absolutely have no clue. And I will look it up, but I will know it either in an hour or tomorrow I'll come back to you. Yeah. It's okay to say, I don't know. Sometimes I think that is absolutely healthy. And nowadays, even more important, just to link this back to, you know, we're all exposed to social media.

00:23:35:36 - 00:23:59:50
Unknown
Everybody tries to be perfect and amazing and wonderful and knows everything. I think this is fundamentally wrong. Yes. It's almost no. It's dangerous. Right? For everything, for mental health. Yeah. For your own well-being and also for what's right and what's not. Yeah. I mean, who am I? Who are other people to to claim we know everything. Yeah. All kind of working it out, isn't it.

00:23:59:52 - 00:24:26:00
Unknown
We were talking pre the pre the conversation that I was saying my experience about sometimes sticking your head above the parapet talking online because it's very tempting. It's easier not to say anything Marcus isn't it. But then I think it's very rewarding when you do. I noticed that you post a lot online. I noticed that you give back to academia as well.

00:24:26:04 - 00:24:35:40
Unknown
First of all, it's the two questions I want to talk about the academia. And then you can edit this bow because I'm mumbling. But like.

00:24:35:45 - 00:24:54:04
Unknown
I want to talk about the marketing and rebrand if that's okay Marcus. Because it looks amazing. What made you decide you want to do that? Because it is bold. The choices you've done. And I love the brand in, but it would have been easier not to do it again. Oh yeah, it was very intense and it was costly and it took like a year.

00:24:54:09 - 00:25:20:19
Unknown
Don't want to do that every every 5 or 6 years. No more. We're going to space opera save for many works we're sticking with. Yeah, hopefully. Yes. The first name we had was Uber Rome and that is a German word combination. It's a it was a reference to our German heritage. And Uber means about and above. Right. And raw means space right.

00:25:20:21 - 00:25:45:09
Unknown
So you could translate that into about space or also above space. Right. We thought we are super clever with that name. But it was it was a tongue twister and it was difficult for the international market. And then came the taxi drivers. Oh yeah. Uber. I didn't think of that. That's true. And we had our trademarked before they were on the market.

00:25:45:14 - 00:26:09:50
Unknown
True story. Really? Yes. And we never were in contact with them. But then we thought like, okay, it's such a big name and such a big animal. Like, you know, the same is true for easy Easyjet, easy hotel. Easy, whatever. Easy, Uber. This doesn't work anymore. And we were always a bit tired about the fact that it was very academic.

00:26:09:57 - 00:26:40:26
Unknown
And then we spoke to clients and they said, look, you started off as a husband and wife team. It's a family name. You have a great team around. You just go with your name. And it was not just that we wanted that. It was basically almost like promoted. We had we had clients, they wrote letters to us, emails or a card, something where they left something in the house for us, where they wrote our name like cipher and not Uber wrong because some of them couldn't even remember the name.

00:26:40:28 - 00:27:00:07
Unknown
Oh, really? Yeah. Market segment is him. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty it. So yeah, but it must take a long time to get there. Was there a period when you were looking at the list of names and then you come back the next day? Oh my God, I can't do that with hundreds and hundreds of names from you.

00:27:00:12 - 00:27:24:24
Unknown
Everything from pineapple to, you know, like hot egg, everything. Just everything. And then we thought like, oh my God. Yeah, all these abstract names. Everything is right. Everything is wrong. Yeah. And then it was like the reassurance from actually quite a lot of clients, but also other people around us, you know, collaborators, friends, other engineers who said, just go with it.

00:27:24:24 - 00:27:40:26
Unknown
And our fear was that if we put our name on the tin, it's all about, you know, like the founders, like Daniela and me, we sat down with the team and they were also very cool about it. And like, no, no, no, no, no, this is all cool, right? Yeah. Well, I feel like we feel that and it's deeply personal to you.

00:27:40:26 - 00:28:02:55
Unknown
But then for example, Dyson, I mean, that's a surname, but I, I establish it with a, with a hairdryer. What I was going to ask is as well, I feel like you give a lot back to the community because it's a lot easier to focus on the architecture. We're focusing on all that stuff. But you do go out of your way to help in university academia.

00:28:03:07 - 00:28:39:16
Unknown
So on. Why do you do that when you're so busy? Why do we do that? I think the first answer is because it happened to us. And along the way, over all the years and decades, I should say we had not many, but we had all the time somewhere around us who helped us, who mentored us, who went the extra mile not for them, or that they got something out of it that just for us.

00:28:39:31 - 00:29:00:36
Unknown
And it doesn't happen every day. But it was always the time when something special, almost magical happened. Like, you grow, you learn, you see something, you see something suddenly which is right in front of you, like here, but you can't see it, right? You couldn't see it before. And someone just look, look. It's there, it's right. Yeah. And this is absolutely amazing.

00:29:00:38 - 00:29:18:52
Unknown
And we if the time allows, we we try to do this. We are not saying we are giving something back. I mean, you could call it like that, but it's also because we like to do it right. Like it's not that we go to such a place or event and go like, oh my God, I need to go there.

00:29:18:52 - 00:29:37:57
Unknown
And it's like, oh no, we enjoy it. It's not the right end. But you also learn from it, right? Have you had those moments where you go, wow, I thought I was going to be here and impart this wisdom, but actually I'm going to go back to the office and do this now because of this conversation. Yeah. Happened not too long ago.

00:29:38:12 - 00:30:08:16
Unknown
We were invited by a fantastic school in north London, in Hampstead. It's the King Alfred School, so it's a school very long established, almost like you could say, famous for the way they teach. Very creative, very open, very liberal, you know, absolute fantastic community. And they asked us if we could help them giving career advice to their older pupils and students before they go into the different directions.

00:30:08:22 - 00:30:33:31
Unknown
Yeah. So we said yes, we do that. And then we were sitting there with quite a lot of students, with other people giving career advice from from everywhere could be like from film from, in our case, architecture, people from finance. And they all talked about their jobs, what they do, how they do it and why, why they choose it in the first place.

00:30:33:36 - 00:30:58:38
Unknown
And we spoke to all these pupils and students and they were very, very aware of the discussion. So it was not just like they come in and go like, oh, I need to sit here. They were absolutely awake on the case and independent of all the individual discussions, there was always two questions which came basically from almost everybody.

00:30:58:52 - 00:31:30:28
Unknown
The first question was, guys, how does AI influence your your work now? And we explained how it influences our work now. Yeah. And the second question immediately, and that was almost like the more important question was how do we how do I make sure that I'm choosing a job today, that AI is not wiping out my future jobs or my future prospects, all my future, you know, life.

00:31:30:31 - 00:31:59:01
Unknown
And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. These guys are super on the case. They are awake. They know it. They probably know more about it than than I know all my wife knows. We were there together and we had very engaged discussions with these students from King Alfred School. And I love that. And we came back to, to, to the office and spoke to the team that we are now having even more informed discussions with.

00:31:59:14 - 00:32:29:16
Unknown
I want to go down full AI rabbit hole now, but more on the level of not just business planning, but almost like future planning. Where could we be in five years time, or in one year, or in ten years time? You know, what could it mean? And always in a positive, in a positive way? Never. You know, I don't I don't believe in being afraid of things and or being bitter about things.

00:32:29:16 - 00:32:56:31
Unknown
And let's embrace it, see what works. And this is what these students do. They think very early on what could work, what might not work. Yeah, yeah. And then they make the decisions. So you learn from somebody who is way younger than you, way, way, way younger and has no job experience yet in that sense. But they own the case without going down the AI rabbit hole.

00:32:56:36 - 00:33:17:07
Unknown
However, I feel like at the time of recording this in April 2026, we aren't on the AI rabbit hole whether we want to or not already. Yeah, exactly. Mark, as part of what you do, I mean, you do all different types of projects. You touched upon that now, but you definitely specialize. You touch upon it in heritage, high end residential and commercial.

00:33:17:09 - 00:33:39:40
Unknown
These are like specialties that you know really, really well. Can you just in a sense, for me, can you break down maybe the differences, what you've learned between how the high end residential project is versus a commercial, are they very two different beasts, or there are lessons that you've learned from both which can apply to each other out of things are very, very different beasts.

00:33:39:40 - 00:33:42:55
Unknown
And it comes with.

00:33:43:00 - 00:34:12:45
Unknown
How how the relationship is with your client. Because high end in most of the cases is a private client who wants his private house, flat, apartment, penthouse, whatever it is. Yeah. So it's all very emotional. Yeah. It's changing your your views or your opinions or what you like or what you think you like on a daily basis. So there's a lot of direct client management.

00:34:12:48 - 00:34:33:52
Unknown
More. This is more sitting with the architect and the client than it sits with the architect. And actually the build project that's almost like you do that over here, right? Whereas your main relationship is with you and the client. Yeah. Whereas in an in an office fitout, let's say, especially for the big corporates, it's almost like the other way around.

00:34:33:55 - 00:34:44:19
Unknown
It's all about you and the project. And then you have a heterogeneous client like a consortium of many people a CEO, the.

00:34:44:24 - 00:35:09:48
Unknown
Project managers and all the people who are involved in this. And then you need to filter out what they want as a funneled kind of opinion, what they like. Yeah. And there it's always about what is the best for the building very often. And with the other one is more like what's the best for the client? And even if you are kind of having this triangle, the dynamics are completely different.

00:35:09:48 - 00:35:24:33
Unknown
And we like here that we have a combination. We just came out of an absolute huge private client project, went on for six years in Mayfair. Yeah. And.

00:35:24:38 - 00:35:45:36
Unknown
After that you you like to do something which is suddenly a bit quicker and a bit faster, and it could be an office fitout or a school or something. Right. And I think the mix is important. I would not want to do the same thing all the time. No. And surely there's some lessons you learn from one sector which forms the other.

00:35:45:36 - 00:36:17:48
Unknown
So it feels like from everything you're saying, there's a value in doing all these different types of technologies. And what I love, the last question I've got, what I feel is that when I look at your website and your portfolio work, there is a cohesion, but at the same time, to your benefit. I don't feel like there's a house style, like it's very clear that maybe you have some principles, but it's not like, oh, okay, this one's very similar.

00:36:17:48 - 00:36:49:38
Unknown
So we're just going to do that here. I'm actually I'm quite happy that you say that because this is one of our main discussions in the office that we are absolutely avoiding a house style, like we are actively working on that, you know, how style. And but if there is a house style, it's kind of it's a happy architecture, which is basically for the people to enjoy themselves, have a better experience living a better life, hopefully.

00:36:49:40 - 00:37:14:07
Unknown
Right. Or being just more happy here at this side could sound cheesy and all that. I know that, but ultimately we want to establish these relationships and then walk out with different projects. But they all have. They're all very colorful, most of them. Right. So we're very keen on these things. And there is something in the background which binds them together.

00:37:14:09 - 00:37:39:16
Unknown
And I think that's our attitude, how we do architecture. But it's not a style which you can draw or see on a drawing. It's more like how we engage with the clients, what they like and find out what's the best for them. What's your thoughts on this in this moment in time? Because we know that if someone is watching or listening to this in the years time, the technology might have moved on.

00:37:39:21 - 00:38:06:55
Unknown
I'm quite excited about it and I'm already using it in my business. I don't see it as replacing people. I feel like a team of a person with. For AI agents and technologies, it's going to do more stuff than the person without doing it. That's my own view. But how do you feel about AI then, and its role in architecture, but also as a business owner?

00:38:07:00 - 00:38:35:26
Unknown
I can obviously only give you the answer we have today in this afternoon. It might change tomorrow morning. I'm sure in time. Exactly. Yeah. In order to answer it, I want to go back to when I started studying architecture. Daniela and I both back in Germany. We are, let's put it this way. Old enough that we started learning drawing by hand with a pencil, throwing board, ink, everything.

00:38:35:28 - 00:38:58:16
Unknown
Every line had to be thought through ten times before you put the ink in the paper. Yeah, because once you've done that mistake. It's not that easy, is it? Exactly. And then came Kat, and obviously everybody was crazy about it and hyped it. And then you had your AutoCAD license. So in Germany was Nemechek, then came 3D and suddenly I was doing my diploma.

00:38:58:16 - 00:39:21:52
Unknown
For example, back in Germany with Maria. It's now more used in film than in architecture. So my gosh I paid nine and it was like this huge cosmos of like you were just thinking into this program, right? And I were basically 24 over seven just in this program for, for like the lighting, you build a model, it has too many Nurbs and it's unusable and the computers run fast enough.

00:39:21:52 - 00:39:47:14
Unknown
Then and then there were always the people who were better than you like, or at least better than me, right? Like faster, better, more talented with these tools. After that, at some point came BIM and so on and so on. And I always viewed it as a tool. But personally I was never interested. We as an office, that's same for Daniela for for all of us in becoming the total tool crack.

00:39:47:19 - 00:40:18:09
Unknown
Right. As in like the best AutoCAD crack the best Maya crack. And that was never the case and never the plan. Yeah. And with AI I'm sitting on the fence because all these tools were just tools. Now the tool has the brain attached to it which makes it different. So in my in my thinking and in our world, in our practice here, we use it as a tool and not more and not less.

00:40:18:12 - 00:40:38:33
Unknown
And we are not afraid of giving over responsibility. We are also not not using it like other people say. I don't need this at all. This is just not for me. Absolutely not. We're doing a lot with AI. We are doing like proximity diagrams for offices. Where do people sit? Which department sits next to the other one? This was all handmade years ago.

00:40:38:36 - 00:41:06:16
Unknown
Now we have 500 options within, you know, one hour texts, everything. Of course. And but we are we are not handing our thinking and everything over or are afraid of it in any way. Summary. It's a tool. We use it as a tool. We like to use it as a tool and not more and not less at the moment.

00:41:06:19 - 00:41:30:40
Unknown
Yeah, so that makes sense. So when we talk about AI, we think about the present, but we think about the future. Let's forget AI for a second. How do you feel about the future at the moment? Because there's a lot of negativity online. But I feel a little bit optimistic because there's always going to be challenges and we're going through it right now.

00:41:30:40 - 00:42:08:33
Unknown
Again, at the time we recorded this, there's pretty much a war going on. Yeah, but I do feel positive about the architecture industry, and I think it's easy to dwell on the negatives when there's so much other stuff. How do you feel though? Absolutely positive. But I would like to caveat that I think architecture has to change. It's already changing, independent of all the new, you know, problems we have in the world, whether that's all the discussions around war and danger or whatever around AI.

00:42:08:38 - 00:42:38:33
Unknown
And I do believe architecture always has been a platform which is multifaceted. I see generally there's always a gap between what you learn at uni, the architectural education and architecture in the real world because it's I think it's a lot harder and more harsh. You cannot teach a student in a university environment how it is to to face a client who, you know, goes ballistic.

00:42:38:43 - 00:43:06:04
Unknown
Could happen. Yeah. Happened to all of us. Happens. Yeah. Of course. Could happen every day. All that. And I think architectural educacion has to change to be more people's focused. I think so too. And I'm saying this because I always was an advocate that I think what's missing, maybe that's missing in the whole world, but it's certainly missing in the architectural world.

00:43:06:09 - 00:43:37:48
Unknown
Things like psychology, how to speak to people, how to to have a difficult conversation with somebody without, you know, making the other person, you know, getting upset or something. Yeah. Of course, interpersonal skills psychology should be a lot more trained out there. And that takes me to the main point. I would even go further away from social media and all that and not get too hung up with with all that and the echo chambers which are out there and really go like, how do people react with people?

00:43:37:48 - 00:44:09:40
Unknown
And that's how we build our practice. And this might sound old fashioned when we are out there, what we're experiencing, there might be a storm on on social media or something, whatever it is, right? Yeah. All upset comments because you posted something and it was not even a bad thing. It was just like what? People have opinions. But when you speak to people and I'm really saying speaking to them on the street in the pop it, it's not that bad.

00:44:09:43 - 00:44:28:09
Unknown
People between people. I think there is a lot of positivity out there and that's what we really, really like. That's why we are using social media and all that. Yes, we need to get our point across. We are doing updates and all that, but we are not going to crazy about it. Yeah, and we do like the personal exchange with people.

00:44:28:09 - 00:44:58:33
Unknown
I still believe there's a lot more positivity out there. I agree it is about people and people, and I think sometimes people are too afraid to reach out on that point though. Marcus, before we we we we end this. I've enjoyed this. However, if someone's here either wants to work for you or have you brief you on something, can you remind everyone the types of projects that you work on and how to best get in contact with you?

00:44:58:38 - 00:45:27:33
Unknown
Well, the the sectors we are working in, everything. Pretty much everything you can do, everything we know that we have done from high end residential, lots of government projects. We are working in the automotive industry for very big players. We have done airport lounges, Lufthansa, Heathrow. A very common theme is that a lot of our projects are heritage projects.

00:45:27:36 - 00:45:50:00
Unknown
Yeah. That's just, you know, it comes almost by definition if you work in central London. Yeah. So many projects are heritage. Yeah. Just want a new project at the London New Sixth Form School where the City School for Boys and girls that team up and they go into a, into a great tool listed building in the city. So we want that project.

00:45:50:00 - 00:46:18:50
Unknown
We're already working on it again. Heritage is the binding force, the umbrella. And yeah, I mean we are always open for applications, architects and also sometimes non architects right. Yeah. And if you send, if you, if you send us a portfolio to our website to the, to the hello address, you find that. Absolutely. And we'll put the links in.

00:46:18:50 - 00:46:34:33
Unknown
But for anyone what is the website domain. It's WW cipher London. There we go find safe and then thank you so much Marcus I really appreciate you being here and the world. And thank you to everyone watching.