Andrea Waltz Explains How to Overcome the Fear of Failure

Show Notes

In this episode of Tales from the PROS, I chat with Andrea Waltz, who is a professional speaker talking to diverse audiences from 80 to 8000 around the world, Co-Author of multiple business fables including the #1 best-selling title, Go for No! Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There. She is passionate about teaching audiences how they can overcome fear of failure and rejection and reprogram how they think about the word No! 

We talk about how to be courageous in business, and overcoming fears and failures specifically in the world of sales. We also discuss how to reach your highest potential within a sales role and how to generate qualified leads for your business, as well as the mental game on a holistic level, and much more.

 

Questions Asked:

1. I love how you talk about courage and overcoming fears and failures in relation to business and sales. What has driven you to speak around the world on these topics? 
2. Is your sales experience more in coaching and talking on outbound sales or inbound sales, or both?
3. Do you feel that having a fear of rejection is one of the main reasons holding back sales people from reaching their highest potential or is there more to it?
4. What are your thoughts on the best ways to truly reach the highest level in a sales role when it comes to generating qualified leads and the art of closing the deal?
5. What does it really take to being courageous in business and overcoming fear and also understanding the value of the word NO?
6. Tell us more about your bestselling book, "Go for No! Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There.

Three How's:

1. How do you define failure?
2. How do you define entrepreneurship?
3. How do you define success?

 

Follow Andrea Waltz:

Website - http://www.goforno.com/  LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/goforno/  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/andreawaltz  Twitter - https://twitter.com/GoforNo

Follow Me:

Podcast Website - https://www.talesfromthepros.com  Company Website - https://www.imaginovation.net  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TalesfromthePROS/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/MGeorgiou22   Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/the_mgeorgiou/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJv9pbImovknEluSLzAPTpg/featured 

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Tales from the PROS is hosted by Michael Georgiou, Co-Founder, and Eric Lawrence, Director of Growth at Imaginovation, an award-winning app and software development company. Each episode dives into honest, unscripted conversations, hard-earned lessons, and the behind-the-scenes chaos of life inside a tech agency.

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Michael Georgiou: 00:00

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Tales From the Pros, and this is Michael Georgiou, your host and cofounder of Imaginovation here in Raleigh, North Carolina. I have a very special guest with me here today. She is a professional speaker talking to a diverse audiences from 80 to 8 1,000 people around the world. Co author of multiple business fables, including the number one best selling title, Go For No, Yes is the Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There.

Michael Georgiou: 00:30

She is passionate about teaching audiences how they can overcome fear of failure and rejection and reprogram them on how they think about the word no. This is Tales From the Pros, where business leaders and influencers share their stories of inspiration, struggles, and successes. And I'm your host, Michael Georgiou. Please welcome Andrea Waltz. Andrea, thank you so much for being with me here today.

Michael Georgiou: 01:03

I really appreciate it.

Andrea Waltz: 01:04

Absolutely, Michael. My pleasure.

Michael Georgiou: 01:07

Great. So, Andrea, you know, we talked about this a little bit in the kind of the pre interview. I really appreciate you taking the time to, to approve the podcast because I was trying to be unique in the way I I got your attention. I know you're probably incredibly busy. We created this this animated image to get your attention on Twitter.

Michael Georgiou: 01:27

So I'm glad I'm glad that worked.

Andrea Waltz: 01:30

I it worked, and I thought it was genius.

Michael Georgiou: 01:33

Right. And I I'm sure we can you can dabble into creativity and sales and all that kind of good stuff later, later in the in the episode. So I think this is a good a good way to kinda kick things off. So with that being said, you know, Andrea, I love how you talk about, and and I read a little bit about your your book and and just your experience and talk you talk a lot about courage and overcoming fears and failures into in relation to business and sales. So what has really driven you to speak around the world on these topics?

Michael Georgiou: 02:04

Tell me a little bit about that.

Andrea Waltz: 02:06

Yeah. Well, I never thought that I would be doing that. Never planned on, first of all, being a professional speaker. And, actually, when I gave my talk in the 7th grade on the dangers of smoking, it went so badly, so incredibly badly that I vowed right then and there that I would do everything within my power to not ever have to speak in front of an audience ever again. But I am super passionate about this topic in particular.

Andrea Waltz: 02:38

I'm sure that if you ask me to stand up and give a presentation on dangers of smoking, it probably still wouldn't go all that well because, you know, I'm not as not quite as passionate about that, as I am helping people over their fear of failure and rejection. And, so that all started because when I met my now husband, we were in corporate jobs working at LensCrafters, and he told me a little story that so something that happened to him that is actually in our book that really changed the way I viewed the word no, and that's what we ended up doing. We quit our corporate jobs and ended up teaching a concept called go for no. And I saw that it was the thing that of 8 hours worth of training that we might do, that little topic was the thing that resonated with people the most, that people really feared the word no and that this powerful little mindset shift really helped them. And so it just it's kind of one of these things where I think the, people that we were teaching, their enthusiasm fueled me, and the more interested in that topic, my husband and I, Richard and I, got and dug into it and started to develop, the more passionate we became about it.

Andrea Waltz: 03:54

And then about 10 years ago, we pretty much decided that that was what our specialty was, was literally helping people overcome their fear of the word no, and that's that is, the focus of everything that we do from a speaking and really a training standpoint, and it's, I'm passionate about it because it's so sad when I see people not living their dreams or not trying to, achieve something just because of the rejection involved. It's one thing to fail. It's just a whole other thing to me to really hold yourself back. You know what I mean?

Michael Georgiou: 04:36

Right. Yeah. No. I do. And and I think the problem is is that a lot of us want to hear the the word yes all the time because there's I believe in me being in business and running running a company, there's a I think people just I I hate saying this in general because I know there's a lot of people that are not afraid of rejection.

Michael Georgiou: 04:56

They've been through so much and they're you know, hearing the word no is just it just goes through one ear throughout the other. You know what I mean? They're not they're so used to it. But the problem is, especially with the young generation, is that they when they hear the word no, they get threatened and they feel like they failed, so they just give up. And there's no there's this kind of lack of perseverance and and and just understanding that there's it takes a lot of no's to get to the yes.

Michael Georgiou: 05:21

Mhmm. And and for me in my experience, that worked. You know? Because I've been turned down so many times and I failed so many times, but yet I've, you know, I've found a way to to, to to reach, you know, to reach a lot of my potential. You know?

Michael Georgiou: 05:35

So

Andrea Waltz: 05:36

Yeah. And that that is really what it's all about. I mean, it it is. And a lot of people it's funny that you'd say, some people don't have a fear of rejection, but I will tell you this. I mean, if we speak for a 1000 people, I will have 1 or 2 come up after after our talk and say, you know, I have no fear of rejection.

Andrea Waltz: 05:54

But the majority I mean, with all of the people that we meet and speak to, I feel like the majority of people, 80, 90%, have a pretty significant fear of rejection. Lots of underlying things because of that due to that, and then you have a very small extra percentage, maybe it's 10 or 15%, that is, like, suit has super anxiety around it. And to that to those people, they're almost, the ones where it's, like, even beyond a sales issue. Right? It's it's more psychology and things like that.

Andrea Waltz: 06:28

So we we kinda try to focus on that middle, 60 to 80

Michael Georgiou: 06:34

percent. And is yours is your sales experience or just experience in general, is it more in coaching and talking on outbound sales or inbound sales, or is it really both?

Andrea Waltz: 06:45

So it it's kind of really both. And to give you just kind of the lay of the land in terms of the whole philosophy, the story that that, Richard shared with me that really kind of changed my perception about hearing yes and no was when he was working for a menswear clothing company. This was this goes back years ago now into the eighties, and he was selling suits for a living and he was doing abysmally, and they were pretty sure they were gonna fire him. And the district manager, this guy by the name of Harold, came into the store and, Richard thought that if he could impress this guy, Harold, his district manager, they would give him some more time to improve his sales. So, they they open up the store.

Andrea Waltz: 07:25

This customer happens to walk in, and Richard takes care of this customer. And the customer basically was like, I wanna buy an entire wardrobe of clothing. So Richard proceeded to take care of this guy and sell him a suit and sport coat and slacks and ties, belt, underwear, pocket square, like this huge $1100 sale. And he's know and he knows that Harold's watching this. Right?

Andrea Waltz: 07:45

And he's thinking, oh, I'm this is gonna be great. Harold's gonna think I'm a great salesperson. I'm not gonna be fired, blah blah blah. So at the end of the sale, Harold comes over and says, hey. That was a nice sale, Richard.

Andrea Waltz: 07:57

And he goes, yeah. Did you see that? It was $1100. That was great. And Harold said, yeah.

Andrea Waltz: 08:01

It was great, but do you mind if I ask you a question? And Richard said, well, sure. What is it? And he said, well, out of curiosity, what did that customer say no to during that sale? And Richard said, what do you what do you mean what did he say no to?

Andrea Waltz: 08:14

You saw that sale. I mean, he bought all of these things, and he's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know what he said yes to.

Andrea Waltz: 08:21

It's really easy. Everything that is on the sales check, he said yes to. I'm just asking you what did that customer say no to, and Richard thought about it and realized in that moment that the customer didn't say no to anything. Everything he laid in front of that guy, the guy was like, yeah. Sure.

Andrea Waltz: 08:36

I'll take it. I'll take it. Right? And so Harold said to Richard, he said, you know, you're a good salesperson, but your fear of the word no is going to kill you. I think if you could just learn to get over that, you could be a great salesperson.

Andrea Waltz: 08:52

And so Richard realized that he didn't know if he had what it took to succeed necessarily, but he knew what it he had what it took to fail. He knew he could start hearing no more often, and if he just started showing more things to more customers and and hearing more noes that it would increase the sales. And that's exactly what he did, and a year later, he became an award winning sales person, went on to training, and then we met. And he told me that story, and I realized I was the same. I I I sold the exact same way.

Andrea Waltz: 09:23

And so we have taught the go for no philosophy, and and that's just, like, kind of that foundational story. But we've taught the philosophy and everything underlying it, all of the psychology and the mindset to to b to b, b to c, inbound, outbound. It doesn't matter because for everyone who's selling, there are go for no moments. There's a moment where you need to ask. You need to either ask the gatekeeper if you can get through to the person you wanna talk to.

Andrea Waltz: 09:52

You need to you're maybe you're talking to the ideal prospect, and you you're trying to ask for an appointment. Or you might be in a brick and mortar location and you're trying to ask for the order or upsell. Right? There's just a zillion go for no moments where you have the choice to ask. You have the choice to to help the customer make a decision, yes or no, And that's what we wanna encourage people to do more of.

Michael Georgiou: 10:16

And where where in the area of sales, do you experience more no's? Do you think it's more like, door knocking or cold calling? Or, what's kind of your take on that?

Andrea Waltz: 10:32

Yeah. That is such a good question. I think that it's probably it it it probably is cold calling, and, certainly, it is door knocking. And it reminds me of a time where we were filming it. We filmed a documentary movie on this idea of go for no back in 2009, and we interviewed all these different people.

Andrea Waltz: 10:54

And we happened to this was so crazy. On the street, run into, these 2 young guys. They were super nice. They were just great, and they were Mormons, and they were, you know, going door to door and wanting to talk to people about their religious beliefs. And so talk about I mean, they were telling us they just hear no all day long and not nice nose.

Andrea Waltz: 11:16

Right? People literally slamming the door in their face. Right? So I think that the when you are just pursuing people without necessarily knowing if they are at all qualified, to have what you what you wanted to share, then the harder it becomes and the more nos you get. The more research that you can do up front, the more you kind of have an idea that this you know, I I've got a 50.50 chance that this person is a targeted lead or a qualified prospect or and the more that that percentage goes up, I think the fewer no's you get.

Andrea Waltz: 11:53

But these days, it is all about getting your foot in the door and getting noticed. And so that's why we have all of these, you know, great pieces of technology and social media and all of these things to kind of help the awareness so that it makes it easier for us to get our foot in the door.

Michael Georgiou: 12:12

Yeah. No. But, yeah, that's that's great. I mean, and do you do you feel, Andrea, that having a fear of rejection, which you talk a lot about, is it one of the main reasons holding back salespeople from essentially reaching their highest potential, or is there more to it you think?

Andrea Waltz: 12:29

You know, I think for some people, it's more to it. There there's always there's always more to it, in terms of well, there's 2 aspects. 1 is there's more to it in terms of skill, and sometimes people just don't have the skill because they're not putting themselves in positions often enough to have selling conversations. And so it becomes very difficult to know what the right phrasing is or to utilize a script or what have you because they're just not doing it enough. I I think and I don't want to generalize here, but we believe that most people have a quantity issue.

Andrea Waltz: 13:13

And what I mean by that is they're just not talking to or sharing their story with enough people. And, obviously, I don't wanna say that, oh, sales is the numbers game, and that's the end of it because that would be really that would be really shortsighted. That's only part of it. But when you have the numbers in your favor and you are working on getting your quantity up, that is when you have the opportunity then to work on your quality and start really practicing and to start really getting better. So skill is definitely a part of it.

Andrea Waltz: 13:48

But I think also to your question, mindset is huge. And there's a lot of interesting mindsets that I find, especially because we work a lot with kind of, I I guess, you would say outside more entrepreneurial salespeople, whether they're, independent insurance agents or financial planners or real estate, direct selling. And so what what I find is that, you know, they're kind of on their own. They're not micromanaged, and so there's there's a lot that they have to deal with and a lot that they need to work on. And mindset really is one of those big things, and it is that fear of rejection.

Andrea Waltz: 14:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Georgiou: 14:31

I I realized that, you know, from training salespeople, I realized that a lot of them are just the the problem is that they're not it just seems like they they don't want to like, we like I talked about before, they don't want to hear the word no. They feel that sometimes, you know, because they're passionate, because they might be intelligent that that the person they're talking to is gonna say yes or give them an opportunity. But when they hear the no, they kinda feel discouraged. But as you know, I like when you talked about, quantity and quality because I agree. I don't think it's just quantity.

Michael Georgiou: 15:06

I don't think it's just the member's game. Right? I mean, you can get you sometimes you instead of getting a 100 lead you know, leads, you might just get 10 leads. But out of those 10 leads, you might close 1 or 2 of them, which is a pretty good closing rate. Right?

Michael Georgiou: 15:18

So with that being said, I think there's a lot more that goes into it, like passion, right, and your approach. Right? There's there's way to there's ways to talk to people. So you don't you know, sometimes when you feel they're gonna say no to you, there's ways to turn it around in the way you talk to them, right, and the way you approach them. Your personality, your tone of voice.

Michael Georgiou: 15:39

Right?

Andrea Waltz: 15:41

Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting because, I think that if you if you kind of started ranking all of the different skills, it's always hard to to figure out, you know, where what goes first. Right? What's what's important? And, certainly, having a great personality, I think you I think, above all, and I read this the other day, and I can't remember who I was reading, but I so agree with this.

Andrea Waltz: 16:07

And they said the number one quality for a great salesperson is curiosity. And I really agree with that because I think that, it's that dialogue and then it's that ability and willingness to ask questions. And when you're curious, you're not putting yourself I think sometimes salespeople put too much pressure on themselves to be like the star and the center of attention, and it's like, no. If you could just be curious and a good asker of questions to try to figure out, does is this someone who has a need for what you want and what what what is going on with them, and can you solve it? And if you can't solve it, also being very okay with that.

Andrea Waltz: 16:52

I think handling a no is a really important skill as well, but that curiosity factor is really important. So if you, can kind of get yourself out of the way, that can be very effective.

Michael Georgiou: 17:05

Yeah. And what are your thoughts on the best ways to to truly reach the highest level in a sales role when it comes to, I know you talked to this a little bit, but we're really when it comes to generating qualified leads and going you know, getting into the art of closing the deal. You know? Because a lot of us struggle with, I know this with with my company. Sometimes it's hard to get qualified leads.

Michael Georgiou: 17:28

Right? It's hard because we a lot of us, they, you know, we we wanna build a brand, right, that that brings inbound leads, that brings leads, which is lovely, which is awesome. Right? It's it's easier when you have people calling you. Right?

Michael Georgiou: 17:39

It gives you that permission based sale, that permission based marketing to to talk to them. Right? Because they're they're calling you for a reason, for a purpose. They're interested.

Andrea Waltz: 17:48

Yeah.

Michael Georgiou: 17:48

But going out and reaching out and finding those qualified leads is hard. Right? So what's what's your do you have any, like, strategies or ways or methods of of really just generating those qualified leads and and essentially closing the deal?

Andrea Waltz: 18:02

Yeah. Well, that I mean, it is definitely a challenge. Right? I mean, I think you are exactly in the position that that many businesses are in and individuals are in, especially, you know, 1 on 1 solopreneur, freelance, you know, salespeople who it's kind of like it's the worst case scenario is, who's who who could use my product or service? Everyone.

Andrea Waltz: 18:28

You know? That's like the absolute worst place to be in, and so it does require a really diligent effort to niche down, I think. And even if you could legitimately say, well, my product my product or service is for everyone. It just is. Well, alright.

Andrea Waltz: 18:46

Then why don't instead of you focusing on that, though, you have to come up with your ideal customer, your ideal client, that avatar, and what what figure out and spend time thinking about who this person is, where they hang out, who influences them. And that has always been a big deal for us is if we wanna work with a particular type of person or in our case, I mean, we're really b to c. We sell speaking and training to companies. And so our situation is a little bit easier because I know exactly who my target person is. I know who my target audience is.

Andrea Waltz: 19:25

We've identified the company size and what the company ideally does and what kind of Salesforce they have and and on and on and on. And so you really the more you can identify that so it requires research, and I think sometimes, it requires making a difficult choice, and that means, alright, for a time, we're not going to go out after everyone. We're going to pick a particular segment of the population, men or women or professionals or young people or whatever, and then start doing your research. And this is where I think that curiosity comes in. And for me, if I was if I was in a position where I was trying to figure this whole thing out, it's well, let's start let let's use cold calling for exam an example or cold emailing and try to do some market research and find out as fast as possible if this group of people is in fact who we believe to be our target audience and find those things out as fast as possible.

Andrea Waltz: 20:27

And then if you can figure that out, then start gearing your marketing to match that audience. But speed, I think, is everything, and that means that that comes down to really disqualifying as fast as possible is asking super fast, easy qualifying questions and going through that as quickly as possible so that you can I guess, you'd call it fail fast, right, is is try to figure out, okay? They're not our target customer. They're not a good qualified lead.

Michael Georgiou: 20:58

Yeah. I I've noticed that you can really waste a lot of time with potential leads or prospects that aren't your target audience. They can, you know you know what I mean? You can waste so so much time and effort, resources, and money, and and they're just there's no there's no need. They number 1, they don't have a need.

Michael Georgiou: 21:16

There's no pain points you can kind of help, and and and there there's just Right. No interest. And when there's no interest, then you can get a lot of time somewhere else. Right? You maybe maybe, and you know, we've all made these mistakes going to, networking events, for example.

Michael Georgiou: 21:30

Right, Andrea? You'll go to these networking events like meetup groups. Right? And you go to a meetup group, and and a lot of meetup these meetup groups, there's there's, you know, startups, for example. Right?

Michael Georgiou: 21:40

If there's just all these startups, they probably don't have the biggest budget. So if you're selling services that that cost over 50,000 or a $100,000 or whatever, that's probably not the best networking events to attend. Correct?

Andrea Waltz: 21:54

Right. Exactly. So, yeah, you're you're you're absolutely right. And it's one of these things where it's like, if you just have tons of time and no money, right, you kinda have to weigh out you have to weigh what works and what doesn't. So if you have a ton of time and you wanna go to those networking events and just, you know, kind of a hail Mary and see who's there and and maybe the next, you know, killer app developer is there.

Andrea Waltz: 22:19

But, really, it comes down to, alright. Well, where do where do the start ups who've been around for 5 years, where are they hanging out? And so it requires a lot of research, but also listening and disqualifying and and really listening to what feedback you're getting from people who say no.

Michael Georgiou: 22:38

Yeah. And and I I really love it how you talk about how you you niche on the word no, because I think of business as overcoming 100 or 1,000 or whatever number you put to it, you know, just tons of hurdles. Right? You're overcoming barriers consistently, right, to get to the next phase, to get to the next, level in in your career, in your in your business. So with with overcoming rejection, with with getting used to the word no, and you just it it does it's like it doesn't bother you.

Michael Georgiou: 23:13

Right? And that means you're overcoming another hurdle. Another you're breaking through another wall, another barrier. And that just you're basically reaching the next step towards all your goals that you're trying to achieve. So I I I feel like that's what you guys are kind of coaching and talking about.

Michael Georgiou: 23:26

Is that is that a little bit more of the the philanthropic side of it?

Andrea Waltz: 23:33

No. Absolutely. That is what it's about. And if we can get people there, it's a great thing because most people are doing everything within their power to avoid failure, avoid rejection, not hear the word no, and also simultaneously get all the yeses that they could possibly handle, all the business that they could possibly want. And so our point is you have to go through those things and and and actually seek them out and start hearing no more often that will get you the yeses that you want simultaneously that will improve your quality.

Andrea Waltz: 24:06

You will become a better seller. You will get better, and then you ultimately start, you know, stop hearing no quite so often.

Michael Georgiou: 24:14

Yeah. And in and, yeah, I agree because a lot of it, if you think about it, it's it really is a lot a lot of it is mental. Right? Because we stop ourselves from reaching our potential. We stop ourselves from from taking it to the next level and and, you know, and and going for what we really want.

Michael Georgiou: 24:31

And and, and this is regards to sales as well and closing that deal. It's we've stopped well, a lot of us stop ourselves in doing that because we're well, it's like we're I call we call it blockers, so it's like we're almost blocking ourselves from from reaching our potential.

Andrea Waltz: 24:47

Yeah. It I think it a lot of it is mental. I think a lot of it is mindset. And just to kind of, like, funny story on the networking thing because you brought it up. People, classic example.

Andrea Waltz: 24:57

Go to a networking event, which I think they're fine, and I think that if that's a place where you believe you can get leads, but here's what happens to somebody who has kind of this anti go for no mindset. They have that that go for yes mindset, which is fine, except that they get home and they have 10 business cards because they had 10 maybe halfway decent conversations. And what do they do? But they look at those 10 cards, and they immediately start saying to themselves, oh, well, this person, I know they're gonna say no. So they they basically, like, trash that business card, throw that away, not gonna reach out to that person.

Andrea Waltz: 25:32

And they go through the cards, and they may throw 50% of them to the side. Just throw them away. Never never contact that person again. Then they talk themselves out of probably another 50%. They probably throw away 2 or 3 cards, convincing themselves that the conversations they had and the people, and they're probably just gonna say no, and it's not worth their time and effort.

Andrea Waltz: 25:53

And so now of the 10 cards they have, they maybe have 1 or 2 that they bother to reach out to. The irony is I mean, if you had conversations and you believe there could be something there, then our our whole point is, well, what do you have to lose? You spent all this time going to the event and meeting people, and now you are somehow disqualifying themself them saying now that you assume that they're just gonna say no, and wait and now you've just wasted all this time. So why don't you make the call or send the email and see what happens rather than assuming that you know what that person's going to do?

Michael Georgiou: 26:33

Yeah. I see what you're saying. You're it's so it's almost like when you have the the, say, you know, instead of go for no, go for yes, it's almost like you're limiting a lot of opportunities for yourself.

Andrea Waltz: 26:47

Absolutely. Yeah. People shut down opportunities all the time because they think they know better and that they think they're just gonna get a no, so why bother?

Michael Georgiou: 26:56

And it I wanna jump a little bit on, you know, just courage and, you know, I mean, in in just your experience, Andrea, and your business and and you coaching and speaking and training around the world, like, what does it really take to be courageous in business and overcoming fear and also understanding the value of the word no? And and and you can touch more on, like, the courage side in business and overcoming fear. What what mentally, what does it really take to be to to reach that level of courage and and just overcoming fear?

Andrea Waltz: 27:28

Right. Well, one of the things is and the biggest thing is understanding the relationship between success and failure. And it I say this all the time to people that we talk to and coach, and it is you have to give yourself permission to fail. And no one would start any kind of business, and you and your brother-in-law wouldn't have started anything or build anything if you guys had set out and said, alright. Well, we better not hit any roadblocks.

Andrea Waltz: 27:56

We better not screw anything up. This better all go really perfectly and smoothly. And then as soon as you came up with that as, like, the foundation and the premise, you'd both say, alright. Well, we definitely better not start because that that is a, standard that is unattainable. And that's why a lot of people don't start things, and that's why a lot of people stay as mediocre salespeople rather than as exceptional salespeople because they're not giving themselves permission to go after big deals, get big no's, fail big.

Andrea Waltz: 28:26

They don't give themselves permission to fail. And so, really, it is that fear that that holds people back. And I say, for every yes you've ever gotten, in that moment, you have the courage to face a no. That is where that courage comes into. It's it's realizing that that asking and facing a potential rejection is more important than the outcome.

Andrea Waltz: 28:52

It's in the attempt, and it's in the trying. And so the foundation of everything that we teach, while there's a lot of sales strategy and a lot of stuff about no, it really is about helping people change their mental model of what failure and success is, embracing those failures and saying, I'm gonna give myself permission to fail. I'm gonna give myself permission to be bad, and then that's where the fear starts to diminish. It doesn't go away for some people entirely, but, I mean, if I told you right now, Michael, get on the phone and call one of your prospects in your pipeline, and I you need to close them, and it needs to be a yes. And if it's not, you know, then you're gonna be in big trouble.

Andrea Waltz: 29:32

Well, now the stress and pressure's on big time. Now you're freaking out. Right? And if I said but instead of, I just said, hey. Get on the phone, and it doesn't matter.

Andrea Waltz: 29:40

Just ask them if they wanna take a demo of your product or ask them to take the next step with you, ask for a meeting, whatever. And it doesn't matter if you get a no, that's cool. And if if they say yes, that's fine too. And so all of that stress and pressure and fear is released. So what we try to focus on is in taking action, embracing the no, valuing the no as much as we value the yes, knowing that if we take the actions enough, the outcomes will be what we want them to be with the right numbers.

Michael Georgiou: 30:12

And, also, in addition to that, you also seem less desperate if you don't have the pressure because I've seen salespeople where you you have all this pressure to meet a quote or to close the deal before the end of the month or whatever it is. Right? And with all that pressure, they it's, like, almost you're gonna do whatever it takes to try to close it, but the the on the other side, the prospect or the lead, they're gonna know they're gonna feel that from you, and they're just gonna be like, alright. This guy is just desperate. I mean, I guess if if you are I mean, I I I've seen that work for some people, but for the most time, it doesn't work.

Michael Georgiou: 30:45

Because when you show desperate when you're desperate, you lose some leverage. And when well, I've noticed that when I don't have as much pressure and I'm trying to sell and I'm very passionate in my approach and I'm very honest and I'm authentic in my when I'm talking to this person, they are it's like they can feel it. They can feel that energy. They can feel it. Right?

Michael Georgiou: 31:08

And and with that being said, it it just leads to such a better outcome. Outcome. Not all the time, but for most of it, they they don't feel that you're desperate for their business. You you feel that you definitely wanna work with them and provide value to them, but they don't feel like you're desperate. They don't feel like you have to have them for you to survive.

Michael Georgiou: 31:24

Right? And and the outcome is just so much better.

Andrea Waltz: 31:28

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That desperation does come through, and it doesn't mean that you can't be excited and enthusiastic and have good personality and and all of those things that are really important. But, you know, you you don't wanna overdo it so much or or come across as desperate because people start to get concerned. I mean, there's just this knee jerk reaction just like you were saying.

Andrea Waltz: 31:48

And so if you are more detached and you're more trying to solve this person's problem and trying to figure out if they have a need for your solution and if you are the one to provide it in a very kind of detached manner, without being like, listen. I'm telling you. This is the greatest thing that you've ever seen, and you need to get it today. And it's like, woah. That really would freak people out.

Andrea Waltz: 32:13

So it yeah. You don't wanna go there.

Michael Georgiou: 32:17

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And, I I really want you to talk about about your book, Andrea. So your best selling book, I found it on Amazon.

Michael Georgiou: 32:25

I'm sure there's a lot of other places you can buy it. So on go for no, yes is the that yes is the destination. No is how you get there. Tell us more about that book.

Andrea Waltz: 32:34

So it's a short fable, and it's not your traditional kind of standard how to book. We decided to write a story. So it is about a guy who wakes up and meets a future version of himself. And it's so it's kind of got this weird supernatural thing going on, but we wanted to teach the concepts in a story format that people could wrap their mind around the idea of what Go for No is, but also entertain them, and we kept it really short. It's 80 pages specifically so that somebody could grab it, read it on an airplane flight, you know, in an hour and a half, and I think that has been part of the book's success is that it is something that people can digest and read and get the get all that they need in terms of understanding the concepts, you know, in 90 minutes instead of the big, there's a place for big sales books.

Andrea Waltz: 33:27

Don't get me wrong. But I don't. A lot of times, those books don't get read because they are sometimes just it's too much.

Michael Georgiou: 33:33

Yeah. So this year, it really you're putting all these situations in someone else's shoes, and you're talking in their kinda third person.

Andrea Waltz: 33:45

Exactly. You you you you follow a story, which is just Right. Is is entertainment and getting people wrapped up in the story, as you know, is so big, and it's so it it really is what creates, I think, kind of more of a word-of-mouth.

Michael Georgiou: 34:02

That's gone. That's and and the book's been I see the book's been around for, what, over over 8 8 years. It's been around for a while. Right? I see seen a lot a lot of sales on it.

Michael Georgiou: 34:13

That's that's amazing.

Andrea Waltz: 34:16

Well, it's been around for longer than that, Michael, and I will tell you we would need an entire another show for me to tell you all of the crazy stories about the book and all of the rejections and all of the mistakes we made with it, but we actually wrote it in the year 2000. Wow. And then we yeah. I know. And then we put it on Amazon in 2007, and so, really, it's it's kind of it's the last decade that it's, been selling as well as it has.

Michael Georgiou: 34:43

That's great. And I know, you know, the author business publishing is, it's a whole beast to tackle in itself. I've heard some stories. So we could probably talk about that another time. But, no, I I really appreciate you tell telling everyone about your book.

Michael Georgiou: 34:55

So I always finish the you know, I always, close the podcast with these last three questions that are called the three how's. So how do you define failure? How do you define entrepreneurship? And how do you define success? And this is perfect for you.

Andrea Waltz: 35:13

Yes. I love these questions, actually. So I definitely define failure as progress. I think failure in fact, we we encourage people to create their own definition of failure. So failure is is progress towards a goal.

Andrea Waltz: 35:27

The definition of entrepreneurship is, to me, really comes down to just solving a particular problem. I think that's what all entrepreneurs that's what they do. They see a problem, and they they strive to solve it. And the definition of success is interesting because there's success is so broad a term, and it means so much to different people. For me, it's, for me, it's kind of a marriage of art and commerce.

Andrea Waltz: 36:00

It's being able to be creative and have fun and also make a great living and serve other people. So I've been able to do that in large measure with our business, entertain, serve, and and make money. So I feel like I've achieved a certain amount of success, but there's also kind of that whole giving back and and serving your your community. And so that's kind of something that I wanna do more of. But, so that's, like, not not a great super easy answer for you, but just off the top of my head.

Michael Georgiou: 36:37

Everyone that I interview always has different answers. Some some similar, but but essentially still different. And that's why I was asked those three questions. But, yeah, I really appreciate that. That's that's great great great stuff, Andrea.

Michael Georgiou: 36:48

And, where can everyone find you? On social media, website?

Andrea Waltz: 36:52

Yes. It's all go for no. Go for no all the time. So it's, goforno.com.

Michael Georgiou: 37:00

Perfect. And I found you on Twitter, so you wanna kinda give your Twitter handle. And do you use LinkedIn as well? Are you more on Twitter?

Andrea Waltz: 37:07

I'm more on Twitter and in and and Instagram now. So it's at go for no on both of those, and I do love it LinkedIn, actually, and I think my LinkedIn is linkedin and forward slash in forward slash go for now. So definitely got the branding going on there.

Michael Georgiou: 37:24

Perfect. Well, there you go. Andrea, I really appreciate it. Again, thank you so much for being on Tell Us From the Pros and and sharing your story and insight with us, and I'm very thankful. And, until until next time.

Michael Georgiou: 37:37

So thanks everyone again for listening, and this is your host, Michael Georgiou, on Tales From the Pros. And until next time. Take care. Please subscribe to our YouTube page and also follow our social media. There are links somewhere around here.

Michael Georgiou: 37:51

But, we really appreciate it, guys. Thanks for all the support, and I'm gonna be giving you awesome content continuously. And we look forward to seeing you soon.