Take the Last Bite

We take a bite out of Midwest queer history! Vince Tripi (he/him, co/cos) is a homegrown historian dedicated to compiling LGBTQ+ history into digestible exhibits for pride-goers and LGBTQ+ youth. We chat about his latest project called “Flyover Country,” an exhibit highlighting LGBTQ+ firsts of the Midwest, including some wild discoveries about the first few years of the Midwest Bisexual Lesbian Gay Transgender Asexual College Conference.

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Host: R.B. Brooks, they/them, director of strategy and impact for the Midwest Institute for Sexuality and Gender Diversity
Cover art: Adrienne McCormick
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Creators & Guests

Host
R.B. Brooks
Director of Programs, Midwest Institute for Sexuality and Gender Diversity
Producer
Justin Drwencke
Executive Director, Midwest Institute for Sexuality and Gender Diversity

What is Take the Last Bite?

Take the Last Bite is a direct counter to the Midwest Nice mentality— highlighting advocacy & activism by queer/trans communities in the Midwest region. Each episode unearths the often disregarded and unacknowledged contributions of queer & trans folks to social change through interviews, casual conversations and reflections on Midwest queer time, space, and place.

For questions, comments and feedback: lastbite@sgdinstitute.org

To support this podcast and the Institute, please visit sgdinstitute.org/giving

Host: R.B. Brooks, they/them, director of programs for the Midwest Institute for Sexuality & Gender Diversity

Cover Art: Adrienne McCormick

Speaker 1:

Hey. Hi. Hello, Midwestie besties. It's me, RB, your Midwest mix Frizzle, taking you on our magic food truck to the season 5 launch of Take the Last Bite, a show where grabbing the last slice of pizza and slathering it in ranch is considered a rite of passage. On today's episode, we hear from a homegrown historian who's looked into the origins of the Midwest Bisexual, lesbian, gay, transgender, asexual college conference to create a traveling exhibit about LGBTQ firsts in flyover country.

Speaker 1:

We started Take the Last Bite in the height of pandemic lockdown because when's a better time to replicate the feelings of being in a friend's living room or a conference hotel lobby having candid creative conversations about liberation than during a time when we're disallowed from being in shared physical space together. In our now 5 seasons of take the last bite, a thematic through line as we engage with cinematographers, chefs, Internet personalities, and more is the quintessential experience of being queer and trans in the Midwest and how the history books don't often showcase the rich realities of LGBTQ liberation work taking place in our region. A large focal point of liberatory labor in the Midwest is our college campuses. The Midwest Institute For Sexuality and Gender Diversity has built on a 33 year legacy of LGBTQ college students and those who support them, curating intentional educational space for our communities. Through the Midwest Bisexual, Lesbian, Gay, Transgender, Asexual College Conference, mumble talk for the necessary short.

Speaker 1:

We bring together 100 of LGBTQ young people across the region and the country for a weekend of education, empowerment, and connection. Our team is composed of many previous conference planners who had the opportunity to coordinate our respective conferences as students at universities all over the region between 2013 to 2020. In fact, many on our team are deeply familiar with and connected to another conference planner who laid the groundwork for us to take up the major task of planning this vital space. Pete Peterson, who was a student planner for Mumble Tech 2012 at Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa. And now works full time in higher education supporting LGBTQ college students in a true full circle moment.

Speaker 1:

On March 19, 2024, in a quaint little conference room in downtown Chicago, the Midwest Institute For Sexuality and Gender Diversity was recognized by ACPA's Coalition For Sexuality and Gender Identities as a recipient of the PD Peterson Public Service Award for Mumble Talks' significant contribution to supporting and advancing LGBTQ awareness for a generation of students, higher education professionals, and community members. ACPA is an international association of college and university educators and professionals, and the Coalition For Sexuality and Gender Identities is one of the entity groups within ACPA charged to increase awareness, eliminate oppression, and provide support for the LGBTQ communities in higher education for faculty, staff, and students. Our organization staff are so grateful for this recognition at ACPA's 100th annual conference in Chicago, and we are deeply aware that our contemporary work was made possible by the dedication and attention of student leaders like Petey Peterson and others deeply invested in creating sustainable, meaningful experiences for LGBTQ college students in the Midwest and for higher education professionals. From the life force of the conference, our team has worked tirelessly and voluntarily, I might add, to devise new and innovative pathways for Midwest LGBTQ folks to be connected, affirmed, and lauded for work and contributions often overlooked by national rhetoric and advocacy discussions.

Speaker 1:

Often deemed flyover country, the Midwest is not looked at as a possibility model for systems change, gender justice, and sexual liberation. We know better, And our programming and podcast are predicated on this important myth busting mission. Today's guest is also determined to debunk the misconception that the Midwest is nothing more than cornfields and county fairs. Vince Trippie is a human of many hats, many of which position him to curate informational and educational experiences for LGBTQ youth. We chat about his LGBTQ history exhibit titled Fly Over Country, debuting in June 2024 just in time for pride month, as well as some particularly interesting morsels of the exhibit that look into the origins of the Midwest bisexual, lesbian, gay, transgender, asexual college conference.

Speaker 1:

Buckle up for quite the history lesson on this episode of Take the Last Bite.

Speaker 2:

Why can't we be in space with 100 of other queer and trans folks and having these necessary conversations?

Speaker 3:

When it comes to dynamics around privilege and oppression and around identity, well intentioned isn't actually good enough.

Speaker 2:

And how far is too far to drive for a drag show? I don't know. We're in Duluth right now. I would straight up go to Nebraska, probably.

Speaker 4:

If you are not vibing or something's not right or also, like, there's an irreparable rupture, you have absolutely every right to walk away.

Speaker 2:

Definitely gonna talk about Midwest Nice.

Speaker 5:

And if that's if that's, as real as

Speaker 2:

it wants to think it is. Midwest Nice is white aggression. That's what it is. Alright. New friend of mine as we're gonna form through this conversation, I hope.

Speaker 2:

I'm super excited to have you as part of our conversation today. So I wanna invite you just do, like, a intro of who you are, what you're up to, and if you can also add, what is your relationship with the Midwest?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So my name is, Vince Trippi. I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, born and raised as they say. I have a pretty special relationship with the Miblattac Conference. Sorry.

Speaker 3:

I say Miblattac. I've been presenting there off and on since,

Speaker 2:

I think, 2009 was the first time I presented. Oh, wow. Okay.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It's always a joy to to, attend that conference and and, see see some familiar faces, some new faces, learn some new things, feel energized by the community that's there. For my day job, I worked for a, absolutely gigantic health care provider in the Midwest. I'm a corporate learning and development manager, basically, in, let's say, the finance division. Basically, health care in the United States is super complex and so are the organizations that attempt to provide it.

Speaker 3:

So we'll just leave it at learning and development and corporate health care finance. I do a lot of volunteering outside of that in, the LGBT space, mostly. Board director for Milwaukee Pride, which is the organization that puts on Pride Fest Milwaukee, one of our many lakefront festivals in the city of festivals. Getting ready for this year, I run our history exhibit as a member of the the production team. Aside from that, I volunteer at a a free clinic that's, been in continuous operation since 1974, and I was actually a big player in Milwaukee and now Wisconsin's, approach in in response to HIV AIDS, when the epidemic first broke out because it's predominantly a, an STD clinic for for gay and bi men.

Speaker 3:

I train scout masters for the Tri County area. Okay. I really like it when people, look at my LinkedIn, and they're just absolutely baffled. Yeah. It's all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 3:

So, I'm an Eagle Scout, so youth development is also a particular passion of mine, being in the education space.

Speaker 2:

Amazing.

Speaker 3:

So lots of connections to the Midwest here.

Speaker 2:

You sure do. Yeah. It's just a couple hats. Just a couple, you know, simple things. Love that.

Speaker 2:

2009 mumble talk, where would where was that one at?

Speaker 3:

Bloomington, Indiana.

Speaker 2:

Oh goodness. Okay. Okay. Indiana.

Speaker 3:

I think the theme off the top of my head was living out loud.

Speaker 2:

Living out loud. We love that. I always I one day one day, there will be an opportunity to really dig into the reasons behind the the language and the phrasing of all of the themes. I know the one that I planned, 20 fourteen's conference, we chose jazzin' it up, which some of my, like, mid Midwest suit, coconspirators rag on a little bit just because it's a little off off the the path of some of the other theme vibes, but Kansas City, Missouri is very notoriously known for its jazz culture. So that's where we pulled that one from.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I remember the the the graphic design for the conference booklet for that one really had it's like it really the theme permeated. It was good. That was a

Speaker 2:

good Have you been attending consecutively, you'd say, since 2009, or has there been some some off years?

Speaker 3:

So I have to go this last year. The last time I did present was in Madison in 2021. We were doing, Brightoberfest in Milwaukee because June 2021 was still not, a good time for us to to host the festival due to, you know, the world ending a little bit there. But by October, things were at least good enough that we could do something, and it was really nice to be able to get the community together. So Mhmm.

Speaker 3:

With that being kind of a, you know, touch and go, is this gonna work? Is it not gonna work with the way that that those pandemic, numbers were were fluxing? Yeah. It happened to overlap with, with the conference in Madison, but luckily, that's like a 90 minute drive. So I was able to zip right out and gave 2 presentations.

Speaker 3:

1 was on, what I do for for, Pride Fest, but also another one on Thomas Barrow, Man Out of Time, which is a, historical critical deconstruction of the character Thomas Barrow from Downton Abbey. Uh-huh. Yeah. Thomas is kind of an anachronism in that gay men of his prime era, place and class would not have conceived of himself that way, as he's Okay. Presented in that show.

Speaker 3:

And, golly, I had somebody come up to me afterwards and say, hey. You know, what what do I major in? Like, study this kind of stuff. And I was like, oh goodness. Please don't.

Speaker 3:

There there are no jobs. This is not this is not what I get paid for. It's lovely to have skills that you can use for your own enjoyment if that's how you enjoy Downton Abbey. But, but this is not what I this is not what pays the bills.

Speaker 2:

So I love this. I am hearing a very emphatic obsession with history, especially queer history, kind of looking at niche kind of, like, making those connections. I'm particularly a fan of the of the Downton Abbey characters. So I remember I remember seeing that come through the submission process. I was like, this is what I love about Mumble Tech is people could come here and talk about the most, like, obscure, and I mean that endearingly, things.

Speaker 2:

And then and it thrives here. It thrives. Yeah. We had someone present on Glee, which, like, you would think that, the discourse around Glee, like, there would be nothing more to say, but that's not true. We absolutely Sylvester tracksuit and a wig to prove it.

Speaker 2:

Like, that you know what I mean? Like, just that is a place. That is a place that those types of

Speaker 3:

concerts really missing in mainstream academia is is more costume and and theatric.

Speaker 2:

Talking about this conference. Right, it seems like this is a a passion area of us of us both. As I understand it, you've been doing some sleuthing and research about the early days of this conference we hold near and dear. And so that's what we're gonna talk into a bit in detail, but I guess I'm curious just, like, how how did you get so immersed in looking into the early history of this conference that a lot of folks don't know has been going on for almost 33 years now?

Speaker 3:

Long time. Well, it all start it all started at Boy Scout camp. Alright. So I have no training in history. I I I don't really market myself as as a historian.

Speaker 3:

I very much come to it, from education. So my my undergraduate degree is in, like, school teaching English teacher kind of thing. My my graduate degree is in more like, education administration or or adult, adult education programming. How I came to that was, at Boysco Camp. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I I worked in the ecology conservation area, teaching merit badges. And for some reason, there was a history program that the nature area owned. And so I took that over and started compiling things and made a little booklet, and that was kind of a hit and didn't really do much with history, but anything other than that. Like, paper local, like, this land used to be used in this way. But after I I got out of, grad school, joined the board of Milwaukee Pride in October 2017, and took over the history exhibit there.

Speaker 3:

And that's really when when things kind of started me down this path that I'm I'm now just consumed by. 2019 was, the the second year that I I, programmed that history exhibit area. It was the 50th anniversary of Stonewall. Well, all of our content in our, let let's say, permanent collection is also hyperlocal. No.

Speaker 3:

These are the people who were active at the period of time that the people who made that content were most interested. Great content. Love love the stories. Love the artwork. It's all really useful stuff, but nothing about Stonewall.

Speaker 3:

And I still, hear young queer folk who are unaware, so much of our history, and it's really not their fault. Like, there's been a systematic program of erasure and and, censorship and boulderizing and criminalization, medicalization of our identities. So I I wanted to put something out there that told the story of Stonewall, but in a way that really communicated what it was like to be there with the understanding that none of us alive now, who were not alive then, can imagine what it was like for those I I put a lot of, effort into digging up direct quotations to illustrate what it was like for the people who were there from their own vantage point. And that work set me about thinking about other big questions that festival patrons, but in particular, younger folks, high school, college age coming to the festival, might not have any, any insight into. And, you know, my 3rd year, 2020, was gonna was an election year.

Speaker 3:

It was also the 75th anniversary of World War 2 ending, so I had Nazis on the brain. You know, I was thinking a lot about fascism for reasons.

Speaker 2:

Yikes. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And and I thought, you know, hey. Let's let's talk about the the intersection of of queerness and and fascism because a a good number of queer folks could be taken in by some of these fasci arguments. Some some fascists will take in queer people for for various, political reasons, but we are ultimately very disposable. And that's what happened in in Nazi Germany. So I did a lot of primary research.

Speaker 3:

I had, like, periodicals flown in, archival periodicals flown in from from Europe, like, doing tons and tons of research. And I made, an exhibit that I called Blossom and Wilt, which is all about the origins of the modern gay and trans identities as thought experiments between lawyers in Central Europe in the 18 fifties, the pop and clear scene in Berlin between and before the wars, the the rise of fascism, the the holocaust. And and it didn't wanna end on a downer, especially since so much of the the story of of the the men in with the pink triangle and other victims of the the Nazi regime. It did not it, like, it did not get better immediately. But I wanted to tell stories of resilience and and fighting back against the Nazis.

Speaker 3:

So I was able to dig up some stories of men, women, and enbies who fought back against the Nazis in fabulous ways. Like, absolutely absolutely fabulous inspiring stories. After that exhibit, I was like, okay. So we talked about New York. We talked about Central Europe.

Speaker 3:

Let's let's get out. Let's get out of of the hero anglosphere. Talk about, something other than than white people. So, again, did a lot of research. Not so much primary source research on this one.

Speaker 3:

And I put together decolonizing queerness, which is precolonial indigenous perspectives on gender and sexuality around the world. It's a huge topic. Like, you could spend an infinite amount of time on it. But again, I I worked way too hard. I I, dang it, read way too many academic texts trying to take, like, a 300 page dissertation with tiny print and and turn it into, like, a one panel exhibit piece.

Speaker 2:

So I was like, wow. Can what could

Speaker 3:

I do if I just came up with stuff off the top of my head? Like, things that are already so ingrained in my in my knowledge, in my in my experience, that would be quick to write about. I thought, well, I'm from the Midwest. Let's think about what what's going on in the Midwest. You know, I listen to a lot of LGBT history podcasts, but it's always LA this, New York that, San Francisco this, DC that.

Speaker 3:

Talk about the LGBT first that happened in the Midwest. And I was able to come up with, like, 7 big ones off the top of my head. So I'm putting together an exhibit right now called flyover country. Mhmm. And it's exactly that.

Speaker 3:

LGBT activism first that happened here in the Midwest first. And one of the things that I wanted to really write about was middle pack, which brings me to the meat, really, or or the the tofu, if you will.

Speaker 2:

The Oh, fair. Yes.

Speaker 3:

What I'm reading about.

Speaker 2:

Serving

Speaker 3:

it serving it up, LGBT history in the Midwest. So Miracle Tech's not the the first, but it is surely the the oldest continuous running LGBT college conference. And I don't have a lot of space on the panel for MIPLTEK because I'm combining it with other things from from higher education. First, you know, student center on on campus at the the Spectrum Center in in Michigan. Kinsey's research in in Indiana, also very, very important stuff to to come out from the Midwest.

Speaker 3:

But I wanted to to pay some some homage to to Mibltech. So I did have to do some primary source research. I started out on on y'all's website, but there's a couple gaps that I was like, oh, you know, I'd love to be able to plug that gap. So, like, conference history has this note. In 1991, college students at another conference in Des Moines came together around this concept of a a Midwest LGBT conference.

Speaker 3:

And so I was like, well, what was the other conference?

Speaker 2:

That's a great question.

Speaker 3:

And yeah. Right? So I'm sitting there going through the daily newspapers from Des Moines trying to find the answer to just this one question. And I was talking to a historian, like an actual historian friend of mine, who's like, yeah. Don't you just love it when you've got one claim that's gonna end up, like, forming, like, half a sentence in your finished work, but it's gonna take you, like, 5 weeks to track down the answer?

Speaker 3:

Sometimes that's just how it is. You know? This is this is what I live for. So I'm not positive because I haven't spoken to, you know, any of the folks that that we know were involved in in the early conference. But I was able to track down an article, not from a, like, mainstream newspaper, but from the student newspaper at Drake University from 1991.

Speaker 3:

The Times Delphic is the name of the the newspaper. And in their March 5th edition, there's an article titled Duels Queer College Helps in Networking. It was organized by, Mark Lesser, who was also president of the Drake University Alternative Lifestyles Student Group, which was founded the year prior, I found out. So that's what dual stands for. They ended up renaming it, and I will come to that in a hot second.

Speaker 2:

Alright.

Speaker 3:

But, this was basically an Iowa version of Miblattech. Had a couple speakers over the course of the day. There was a closing address. It really resonated with me, particularly because of the theme of last year's conference about queer joy. So this this closing speaker, Melanie Cooley, was a junior on leave from Grinnell College, which is nearby.

Speaker 3:

She said special occasions often have a moment of silence to think about an important event or issue. Cooley said, we've been silent too long. We're going to have a moment of rage, of anger. And the audience then, laughed and and screamed. I was like, oh, wow.

Speaker 3:

That's really powerful that that queer people don't need a a moment of silence. We need a a moment of rage. And I was thinking, like, you know, there might be enough energy here to put together something like maybe this is that conference. And, indeed, Lesser said that the event would be held again next year, although I can't find anything about it being held for next year

Speaker 2:

Okay. Okay.

Speaker 3:

Due to the university's central location, and planning has just started, but Lester said the conference would probably be open to colleges from all across the Midwest. I think maybe we have a really good candidate

Speaker 2:

for one day. One day. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So in 1993, the student group, Doable, the alternative lifestyle student group, renamed itself to the Bisexual Gay Lesbian Alliance at Great. So in 1993 and I can see why they did it. It spells out be GLAAD. Right? Okay.

Speaker 3:

But in the acronym, right, it's not the LGBT college it's not the GLBT, which is pretty common ways of saying that. It's got bisexual firsts, and it's always been kind of an open question, like, why is it like that? Sorry. It's very frustrating. Because I wonder if it has something to do with, well, because this one school in Iowa had a snappy acronym, and and it just kind of overflowed into other things.

Speaker 3:

Maybe. I'm pretty sure that's where where that that that other conference is, is that Iowa queer college conference at Drake.

Speaker 2:

That feels pretty solid. That feels really informative too. Like, that that is really cool to have traced it back to our one little snippet of information on the website to this really strong I would say that that's a very, very valid guesstimation

Speaker 3:

of where

Speaker 2:

the person started. Leads.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. You know, there were other leads that I had. So one of the high schools, that Ames Senior High School had, in their student newspaper that I found digitized from 92. Students went to a conference called Matter of Justice and Compassion Serving Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Youth, also in in Des Moines. And I was wondering, maybe that could be it.

Speaker 3:

But after finding that Drake conference, it it just doesn't it doesn't compare. That was Sure. That's a really good lead. Something else that I found missing was a theme for the 1st annual Miblattac. Mhmm.

Speaker 3:

And I was like, oh, well, let's dig in. Let's try and let's try and find out. So I went to the so that that conference was held at Iowa State University, love Iowa State University, and jointly helped with with Drake. So that's what led me to the Times Delphic looking, but I could not find absolutely anything about the first. Well, it wasn't Nibble Tech.

Speaker 3:

It was mblgcc at the time. Couldn't find anything about it in the Iowa student newspaper, Iowa State newspaper or the Times Delphic at Drake. But I did find lots of other things. ISU appointed a, advocate for gay and lesbian students in 92 who, spoke, to that newspaper about harassment being rampant in residence halls. A lot of other things going on around that campus, including marches for, coming out day in 93.

Speaker 3:

But, alas, nothing about this conference. Well, where else could I find out about what happened if it wasn't documented in let's call it the mainstream press. It wasn't Mhmm. In the in the student press. And I was like, you know what?

Speaker 3:

Earlham College, the host of the second Nipple Tack That is nowhere near Indiana, or, Iowa. It's it's all the way out in southeast Indiana, like super rural Indiana. And it's, as far as I can tell, the only religious school to have directly hosted Mhmm. A conference on on campus. So I was like, you know what?

Speaker 3:

If they hosted it the 2nd year, somebody probably went the 1st year, and it probably made a pretty big impression on that. So I dug up the Earl's damn word, which is their student newspaper. And I found that in 1993, they had a, group perform for the Lesbian, Bisexual, and Gay People's Union, which was their student group in November. So I went okay. And, then ended up finding an article that did discuss the first Nibbletak.

Speaker 3:

It was an editorial written by here we go. Claudia El Hoon wrote an editorial called Planning for the Future. She says the theme of the conference, as well as listing out some of the the keynote speakers and and further really great details that the theme was making it perfectly queer. She's actually got some really interesting insights about the nature of not just student activism, but, like, larger gay and lesbian movement activism that there are many approaches and many end game like, end goals in queer activism, and it takes all time. 1 of the keynote speakers was the former president of the student body at the University of Minnesota and also the president of the United States Student Association.

Speaker 3:

So it really seems to have started out as very focused on student activism. Mhmm. Not just being, you know, about the the larger movement specific to college students truly being a college conference. Yeah. So, strangely, no other student newspaper, covered that initial conference, but it does make sense that a student at Earlham did cover it because it was the second in a series of something that makes that something a thing.

Speaker 3:

And now I've got the Earlham word. Like, hey. Let's let's take a look at the the the context for the second conference. You know, this is a religious school. It's a Quaker school, the religious society of France.

Speaker 3:

Quakers have have a a a form of worship that might not be familiar to to many people. They worship in, complete silence, except for when someone's moved by the spirit to speak up and and say something. So it's very difficult to say, like, there is a Quaker view on almost anything because god speaks directly to and through individuals in in, the congregations, which they call a meeting. And so the Indiana yearly meeting is kind of a, like, a federation of of these, of of some of these, Quaker meetings. And, this particular one had previously gone through a a schism.

Speaker 3:

And, partially, that was motivated by the expulsion of gay and lesbian members of that organization. Now as I'm keeping that in mind, and and Justin had provided me with a a clip of just part of an an article from the Earlham word. I discovered that there was a lot of discourse Mhmm. On campus at Earlham about just, like, the existence of gay people. And, really, what what it ended up evolving into is this, like, flame war in the student newspaper between the presiding chairman of the Indiana Yearly Meeting and the president of Earlham College.

Speaker 3:

Like, they're they're writing editorials back and forth at each other in full view of everyone on campus, and it is wild. And it seems like these issues were really simmering, simmering, simmering, and then MippleTac is the thing that brought it to a boil where the the chairman of the Indiana merely yearly meeting is, like, we appoint your trustees. You know, what if there was a student group who want to bring a Nazi speaker onto campus? Like, this kind of stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Really, you know, measured reasonable arguments. And and the president of the the university is like, hey. I don't like this any better than you do, but intellectual freedom is basically how he how he comes to it. I thought that that was so interesting because he's, like, a reluctant ally and yet making space at the same time. There was, a a lot of coverage of Miblattak in the Earlham Ward at at, at that contemporary moment.

Speaker 3:

One of the things that struck me was, I guess, maybe, at the time, they didn't have a lot of conference hotel space in, in super rural Indiana. After registering, like, signing in, conference attendees shacked up with university students in the door, which you can imagine might have inflamed some, some members of the campus community. But I I just thought that was absolutely wild that students at Earlham were opening up their their residence hall space for Yeah. For for these queer students from all over the Midwest. That's absolutely wonderful.

Speaker 3:

Now, later in the, in the year, they did do a a rather large retrospective in the Earlhamn Ward going back into deep history of their relationship with with the Indiana yearly meeting. As far back as oh goodness. The first controversy they really had was in the 18 nineties. They had a controversy about the way that Earlham was teaching the bible at the time. So, like, there was this tension long before, and and gay folks really became part of that conversation in in the 19 eighties.

Speaker 3:

And then, like I said, came to a boil in 94. So I I I I've been talking about, like, the campus' first gay relationship. Like, it's real, true, unambiguous, like, first gay experience. Kinda shook. And no matter how big a tantrum this yearly meeting through yeah.

Speaker 3:

We we had some reluctant allies there, and and it made for a lot of really good discussion on campus about, kinda, like, who we are, what is it that we think that we're doing here kind of things. Fascinating stuff to to dig into and and read people's perspectives from that time. It doesn't have such a a happy story because a couple months after the conference, I I found that the Lesbian, Bisexual, and Gay People's Union Student Group had a deficit of something like $3,000. Big money. And I don't know whether it bankrupted the group or or what ended up happening there.

Speaker 3:

But they did hold several host conference fundraisers alongside, Students For Choice, notably, to to make up for that deficit. So I didn't really see any gaps in the the third conference at, Southern Illinois, University Carbondale. And again, going back to a a a public university. But I did find scant references to them in post conference coverage, basically. One fundraiser, but mostly post conference, coverage in the daily Egyptian, which is the name of their student newspaper.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And I've I've noticed that after Oleham, there hasn't been a really religiously affiliated institution to host. And and the administration at Southern Illinois was supportive. That's a good change of pace. Love to see that.

Speaker 3:

And and like I said, Iowa State University also had a lot of openly gay conversations, as a campus. Drake University, had a had a dynamite organizer apparently, and and Earlham College had been, you know, simmering until until it came to a boil. So it was kind of surprising almost to have, again, such scant coverage in in student news. So, yeah, I've I've been compiling kind of a bulleted list of of more detailed, notes that, you know, if you like, maybe would be spectacular to have up on the website. Some bigger issues I I came up with in in kind of wrapping up what I found for for this very small period of time for this conference that has survived these years, which where institutions are not guaranteed a a long life the way that that Milltec has enjoyed.

Speaker 3:

But it it really came to strike me that higher education is at once an incubator for ideas and identities, like the the invention of new ways of being, be it by, like, thought experiments, but also by connection and communication. You know, it's it's kind of a cliche that in in queer identity, like, oh, I thought I was the only one. Well, you get to college or maybe drafted by the military, and you find out, oh, maybe not the only one. And and, these identities start to become intelligible. But these these institutions of higher education are also a a way to protect these ideas and identities in hard times.

Speaker 3:

So this is not so far removed from the AIDS epidemic, this this early nineties, late eighties period. You know, these student newspapers are rife with examples of harassment against LGBT students on campus and in the larger community, and yet they persisted in these environments. And, there was discourse and dialogue about not just what it means to be like, it wasn't naval gazing. It was organizing. It was strategy.

Speaker 3:

It was how do we make things more effective on our campuses and across the student movement outside of and in in connection with larger lesbian and gay activist movements. Higher education being not only this this laboratory, this crucible, it it it's really a sustainer for those of us who are not in college anymore and and do not know what the the new ways of of being, holding space and preserving holding space and preserving space when maybe those of us in in the workforce, if we're lucky enough to to have painful employment, applying for jobs can be hard. Applying for jobs while openly queer can also be very hard. Mhmm. And yet at these universities, there's there's still often a space for that even if there is opposition to them.

Speaker 2:

You're just all of the information that you've been able to glean and gather, I think, just hits on so many nexuses of things that, like, I've experienced, I've witnessed, I find very important. Right? Like, I was a student journalist. I was a queer college student. I was an attendee and a planner of mumble talk.

Speaker 2:

Right? Like, all these things are just hitting on so much stuff that, like, in retrospect, I didn't realize how valuable and also how, like, inconsistent my experience might be comparatively to other institutions across the country. Right? I very distinctly, for example, remember there being a traveling exhibit that made its way to UMKC where I did undergrad by way of our archivist on campus, Stuart Heinz, about the, persecution of homosexuality in Nazi occupied Germany. Right?

Speaker 2:

And so that is a piece of history that I'm like, well, duh, but circa today is maybe not as evident. Folks don't always know the context or the history of symbolism and imagery that is part and parcel of queer community, especially gay and lesbian community of that time. I very distinctly remember having battles in my newsroom for my college newspaper with my adviser, especially, who was a cishet white man telling me that I had an agenda about all the coverage of queer shit that was going on the newspaper. And I was like, you mean just telling the news? Like, we would get into these battles because there was now this extensive coverage of LGBTQ stuff on campus, and he thought that that was too much.

Speaker 2:

And yet what you're telling me here is that you were able to find this documentation of things going on peer to peer between students in these conversations by way of archives of student newspapers, which I think is very telling about who is telling what stories about these universities and what is actually being maintained and archived and who's keeping the record. Usually, it's the, you know, lowly queer college students who were running these student newspapers. I had a very queer staff. I had a very queer staff, and I loved it.

Speaker 3:

And I can confirm that while you may have been extra in your day, that that that is that is great now. And and thank you for doing that because, like I say, there was no coverage in in the the dailies in these municipalities. It all happened in student newspapers. Like, what you're doing if you're writing on a student newspaper is not frivolous. Your campus politics are not just limited to the campus.

Speaker 3:

That stuff matters. Like Mhmm. All kinds of things that queer folks do in our daily lives, just existing can be resistance. Writing in your student newspaper, fighting that good fight, that is so important. And not just as we look back.

Speaker 3:

As we look back, we see the we can see the ripples, but, like, we feel them whether or not we we can observe them.

Speaker 2:

I another time a timing thing that I think is so interesting surge in LGBTQ student clubs cropping up, trying to, like, surge in LGBTQ student clubs cropping up, trying to gain institutional legitimacy, trying to register as an official student group. I I went to University of Kansas, for example, and I think it was 1989. I'd have to double check that that was a big deal where they were perpetually being told no because of your content, because of the, you know, Kansas being Kansas. Right? There was a lot of hostility towards these student clubs being able to crop up.

Speaker 2:

And so I think in this this era of student clubs trying to gain the same legitimacy and access to institutional resources in the late 19 eighties and early 19 nineties. It feels very interesting and feels very related that a conference conversation would be cropping up at the same time when students were were mobilizing in pretty significant ways, in pretty disparate ways. Right? Like, there wasn't a, you know, giant conference call where all the queer kids at college campuses in the Midwest were like, hey. We should start a start a queer club.

Speaker 2:

Right? Like, folks were building this on their respective campuses in localized ways and getting pushed back in comparable ways because of the the status of society localized conversations of how do we create resources and connection points for queer students on college campuses because, of course, we are on these college campuses. I think that timing is just very poetic and interesting and important.

Speaker 3:

I mean, the first student organization to be recognized by a college campus was at Iowa State University. You know, the 1st campus office that was, like, part of the administration was, like I said, at at University of Michigan. Their their what's now called the Spectrum Center. Midwest very much leads the way. You know?

Speaker 3:

It's not just cornering cows and and conservatives.

Speaker 2:

Like, there's queers there's queers here too.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. And and and they are not, we are not satisfied with the status quo either. I'm I'm struck by by your recognition that this multistate characteristic is is very, very important too to to to the conference. Like, not only the the state, caucuses, but the the ability to to speak across those those lines. In Wisconsin, we have a, supreme court case at state level called Court of Regents v Southworth.

Speaker 3:

And the the case was the university collects on behalf of the student government, fees to support various things that the student government votes to collect fees for. So there's a campus health center. Nowadays, there's, you know, like, an unlimited bus pass. But also, like, the LGBT and the women's resource centers, where some of these, institutions like other schools have. And this Southworth case asked the question, well, doesn't that violate my first amendment right if I have to pay into the LGBT Resource Center, and I think that they should burn in hell?

Speaker 3:

And this court case basically came away with, no. It doesn't. As long as the student government makes these funding decisions based on viewpoint neutral criteria. And seeing a certain type of person who gets very excited about student government in college get all bent out of shape about how to defund the women's and the LGBT resource center on campus with a viewpoint neutral argument was always delicious. Usually, they could just reduce funding.

Speaker 3:

It was very difficult to completely defund them. Right? But I I recognize that that's a Wisconsin thing. So that that intermixing between states and and these different polities is also super valuable because, like, oh, yeah. I can't rely on self worth.

Speaker 3:

Like, I have to make a different kind of argument. But you know what? Making a a dollar value argument about what this center is worth in terms of bringing dollars onto campus for, I don't know, maybe you host a drag show. And it's like, yeah. We are able to self fund 60% or what?

Speaker 3:

Like, that kind of stuff. Like, we can make these arguments based on inspiration from systems that we don't have direct access to in our in our schools.

Speaker 2:

That that does make me you know, not to take it too far in the weeds, but it does make me think about the current status of DEI LGBTQ identity based work on college campuses being under attack at this moment. Well, then here we are. And just how there's never been a time, I guess is what I'm saying, where they have been robustly, consistently, and equitably funded and supported, that every type of resource and every establishment of a student club, a, brick and mortar center, support staff person, a graduate student position, has been fraught with having to justify, justify, justify, and push, push, push, and demand. Now we have the opposition saying the quiet part out loud instead of trying to find the strategic value neutral ways of saying, well, you're not, whatever whatever the attempt at bed

Speaker 3:

at work. Afford this this luxury LGBT center. This Exactly. Room in the campus student union that costs every student $3 a year. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Now it's now the argument is just we hate queer and trans people, and so we just we just don't want it here. Right? So now the the louder part is being said louder than it was before. So I I think there's a connection point there. Patterns persist.

Speaker 2:

And oftentimes, I think I there was a point you made quite a bit earlier about just kind of the some of the disconnect, especially young, younger LGBTQ folks have with kind of understanding those persisting patterns of what has already taken place and even recent history and recent, I'll say maybe the last 30 to 40 years history to understand that, like I said, these things have not just been handed. You know, power did not just grant these things to us. They have perpetually been demanded and fought for, and the conference is one of those things. I can't imagine I I I think about my perspective and what I know is embodied history as someone who planned a 2014 conference, right, and have been in relationship with folks who have planned the 2012 conference at Iowa State, where I went back to Iowa State, the 2013 conference at Michigan State, 2014 was at UMKC, and 2015, Illinois State. Right?

Speaker 2:

That little conglomerate of conversation was fraught with its own frustrations of, of inconsistent institutional support and having to justify, justify, justify. What were the relationships on our respective campuses with people who got to make decisions, and what was their trust in the LGBTQ students to put on this meaningful necessary space for the region. And I don't know how this conference has survived as long as it has pre institute, but we we did the damn thing. Again, the patterns persist. I think that's it.

Speaker 2:

You can't take it for

Speaker 3:

granted. Like, it takes the consistent effort of concerned folks like you, like me, who are willing to put them themselves out there for something that, they believe in. And, you know, it I feel like the essential, like, queer experience in this world, in this life, is the ability to take hatred and transmute it into love. You know, we take the the venom of the people who would rather that we not exist, and we take that to perpetuate care to our community. And MIMO attack is a really good example of that happening over and over and over again in kind of a year to year, almost ad hoc.

Speaker 3:

Like, this is important. We should be doing this. And so they did it. And and we stand on the shoulders of giants, if you will. And and none of it was because they were per se, you know, the bomb diggittiest activist ever.

Speaker 3:

They just tried, and it worked. You don't you don't you don't win unless you unless you play. I don't think that this is a a fight that we will ever be totally satisfied that we won necessarily. The the point of this game is to keep on playing. It's to keep on living, to keep on surviving, and and at times thrive, certainly.

Speaker 3:

We've had so many, elders that I've spoken to in in the history exhibit come and say, like, I never thought in my lifetime I'd see same sex marriage, Lady Goliath. You know, looking back at just like Wisconsin's gay rights law that was passed in the early eighties. Like, people, like, I never thought I would see gay people talked about in the legislature in a positive way. These things can and have happened, and I think that what history has taught me is to be encouraged. Like, we we have come a long way.

Speaker 3:

And at the same time, I mean, you ever heard, like, friends are willing to race for everyone? Like, it's the nineties. Come on. Or it's like, you know what? I cannot believe that in 2014 like, I've been hearing stuff like that since I was I don't remember.

Speaker 3:

And, like, I cannot believe in this day and age, in 2024, we are still like, I have heard that every single year. Like, I can absolutely believe that we are still playing with this kind of stuff in 2024. We've been putting up with it since 18, whatever, but we are not in the same place. And that's because when you try, you can win.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It I I've I've spoken in space, especially with student planners who've carried out the, you know, decision making for recent years as conferences as as our, you know, Midwest Institute role has has played out. Right? We've become the folks who kind of give the guidance and and context of here's what we know has worked. Here's what has not worked under these circumstances.

Speaker 2:

Every other decision is still made by students. Right? Which is is the is the life force of the origin story of this conference, and we are committed to maintaining that. And something that I have named and, you know, it's technically, but I still maintain that this conference, the spirit of this conference especially, is too big to fail in terms of there will always there will always be a version of this type of connecting, and gathering, and conversations across Midwest LGBTQ college students, and LGBTQ young folks and and our communities in general because that that is that is a necessity, and that we will continue to do that because what else can we do, and what else will we do? We are perpetually called into this kind of work.

Speaker 2:

This is the flavor of it at this time, and this this conference continues to to offer that opportunity for folks in this way. And I'm glad that it is it has been a long term offering for you since since 2009, and that you've you've really had this really meaningful intimate experience. It was kind of looking back at the details of of the seed that was planted back in the early nineties that has now resulted in this 33 year run of this conference and and what has become the Midwest Institute. And so I I feel like we could chat 5 ever because I am just as nerdy about this as you, but I I feel like I have 2 questions in no particular order that I feel like could get us towards a nice little wrap up. My first question, which is just out of curiosity, towards wrapping us up, is what is what is your favorite Mumble Tech moment of the of the experiences you've had with conferences since 2009?

Speaker 2:

What's what's one that really sticks out for you?

Speaker 3:

Oh, golly. I've got a couple. I I I can remember workshop presenters and ideas that I took away. I can be, I can remember instances where I was surprised that entertainers that I thought was just not going to resonate with me and then, like, took my breath away. The the most personally satisfying one, I think, was I forget the year exactly, but it was at Iowa State University in Ames.

Speaker 3:

And I was gearing up to present a session, and it was Lady Gaga studies. And it's a deconstruction of the music video for Born This Way as, like, if it were a literary text.

Speaker 2:

Oh, good.

Speaker 3:

And all like, pulling apart all the illusions and and and meanings and and, yeah, doing a literary deconstruction of of this media. And, I remember being sore about my time slot because it must have been, like, Friday right before the, like, first plenary keynote session. So I was like, no one's gonna show up. And then I get into the room, the space, and it's gigantic. It's so big.

Speaker 3:

It's like a ballroom. And I'm like, oh, great. So there's gonna be, like, 10 people in this room that seats 300 people. Oh, great. This isn't gonna be weird at all.

Speaker 3:

And then that room filled up. Oh my god. Blown away. So that was a really validating moment. And I think I was still in my undergrad at the time, but that was like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 3:

There is interest in these things that I am also interested in. Yeah. Major in that, or even in make sure that you can explain how that's useful in, you know, something that will pay the bills. But, like, goodness gracious. That was that was a moment to remember.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I and I think just, you know, you had mentioned this, kind of towards the beginning that your your larger project, the flyover country, exhibit is is Bumble Tech is kind of a a fractal of that larger project. So I just wanted to make some room of just kind of what your, you know, overall hope, for the impact of that project is, any other cool little quirks and quips you've maybe unearthed through that larger project and just what you're hoping that turns into as you you, work through that flyover country project?

Speaker 3:

So I I rent out my exhibits that I create. I I debut them at at Pridefest, but I I rent them out to other institutions and had them at other pride festivals at, so far, university libraries. I'd love to get public libraries in there. But also at high schools have have had, you know, librarians and and teachers come through and and be like, I would like to bring this to my school. So, yeah, I absolutely rent them out.

Speaker 3:

You can you can find more of me. My website is vince.lgbt. My my my name dotlgbt. You can see, know, what I'm what I'm cooking. I've I've got flyover country, just about wrapped.

Speaker 3:

And then I'm gonna start on my next one, which is gonna be, queer folks in STEM fields.

Speaker 2:

You know, as a lifelong Midwestie, I'm just really appreciative of, you know, when I see other work done about really focusing on the Midwest. Right? You're you're, mentioned earlier that, like, there's plenty about San Francisco. There's plenty about New York and DC. Maybe Chicago at best is where we'll see, like, perpetual reference and kind of larger national texts and media about LGBTQ work.

Speaker 2:

There's way more, and I think I think the college towns are a place of rich history that that it sounds like this really starts to tuck into, and that's that's a big deal. So I'm excited to to see more about the the finished piece of this particular exhibit you're working on and look at your other work. And this has just been really, really exciting for me as someone who just finds such immense meaning and has built so much of my life around this particular conference. So this was very enlightening for me, and I hope other folks who have found Mumble Tech to be near and dear to them. Is there any any last parting thoughts that you wanna name before

Speaker 3:

and Institute and in helping perpetuate this conference for all the students who continue to step up and and put themselves out there, but also for the students who might not be out or who are still experimenting, figuring themselves out. Like, that project, that personal project has wide ranging significance. It is an important work. Whether you are organizing 1,000 people into a convention center or organizing your thoughts about how you like boys or how it's okay that you wanna get surgery, don't wanna get surgery. Maybe you don't have any romantic feelings.

Speaker 3:

Love that for you. Like, lean into it. It's all important work.

Speaker 5:

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Speaker 5:

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