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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Jesse French
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the restorative man podcast. I'm Jesse French and get to be one of the co-hosts and today I'm with my good friend, Chris Bruno. Chris, how are you? Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that a couple episodes ago you're feeling very grim. And so I just, I mean, your goodness is welcome and maybe it's worked its way out of the system. So
Chris Bruno
Hey Jesse, I'm good.
We'll see. We'll see where this conversation goes. I don't feel grim. So maybe.
Jesse French
And what I'm going to say next is a good, like it's some good data to counter against the narrative that of Greenchris.
Chris Bruno
I sense a story is coming.
Jesse French
So a couple of months ago, you and I and a handful of other men had just good fortune of traveling overseas and I'll, we can get into more of the details of why and all of that. But, the scene where we found ourselves was in this just delightful Scottish pub. And we sat at this, I think there was like 20 of us, 18 or 20 of us. We're at this big long table in the Scottish pub and we're there for dinner.
It's about seven 30 at night and these two Scots are playing on the other side of the pub and they're playing guitar and singing. it's just like all of the goodness of whatever like happy Scottish pub image you conjure up right now.
Chris Bruno
This is it. I remember this distinctly. Yes.
Jesse French
Like, we're eating, like, flipping some of the best fish and chips I've ever had in my life. Like, just so delicious. It was great. So I'm, I'm enjoying this wonderful just feast, great conversation with the guys there. And I'm kind of at the end of the table. And all of the sudden, from the other end of the table, where you were sitting, comes this flying French fry flying at a high rate of speed that just hits me in my ear. Like,
Perfect shot right in my ear canal. I look up like any sane person would do with this like miffed. Comfort and did where did that come from? Look and you know it's this table of 18 guys and whatever. Yeah, no one idea. Yeah, and then like 40 seconds later it happens again and this time I'm quick enough on the turnaround and I look over and I see not grim Chris Bruno. But happy.
Chris Bruno
Like, where did that come from?
Jesse French
smug Chris Bruno with this little mischievous smile on his face. And he just kind of looks at me like, Gotcha. And so what he started then that night was, it was not like a full on food fight brawl that would have been uncouth and disrespectful. But there was there was a lot of projectile. Yes, a lot of flying food. Yeah, The evening to which it escalated to the point to where
Most of the table was sitting with their hands covering their drink, whatever they were drinking because there was like French fries or peas or other things. Yeah, Yeah, ketchup packets. was a, well, you'd love throwing those. Those would just be flying in and so you'd like have to cover your drink to keep it from getting tainted and spilled. All because of you.
Chris Bruno
Yes, all because of me. Look at how much, how much more of that experience you remember for the fun that ensued at the table. And now another thing happened and that was, I don't know if you noticed this, but there was a good hand slap that I did to the guy across the table. And then he like pelted me back across the table and even harder. And like there was some good energy going on there.
Jesse French
And I had forgotten that part of it. was, yes, that was a wonderful scene too.
Chris Bruno
It was great. There's more story to why and how and all those kinds of things. so, yes. Was it you, Jesse? Was it you or was it someone else? I think it was you. Didn't you go over and join those Scottish singers?
Jesse French
It was a rowdy.
It was, it was someone with like in the group with an actual legit real good voice.
Chris Bruno
Well no, I mean he did that too, but didn't you go? Yeah, I think you did.
Jesse French
dinner.
Maybe that, maybe that in my inner, my, inner heart of hearts, I wanted to go and sing with the Scots in the.
Chris Bruno
Okay. All right. Yeah.
Jesse French
It was a night of good laughter, really.
Chris Bruno
It was so fun.
Jesse French
And actually, without trying to make everything this big, profound metaphor or expression, actually was, was really important and actually was part of the larger arc of the trip that we were both on. And so that was, us some more of actually why we were there and what we were doing in Scotland.
Chris Bruno
Well, yes. So we were actually there because we were part of the Sage trip, which is the Sage experience that we lead each year around the Sage book. And this is a group of men, 35 to however old you are, to come and experience this journey of what is it like for us to intentionally enter into the season of our lives that will be called the Sage. And that you start that, we have 35 year olds, you don't do that at 35.
We invite the 35 year olds to be a part of that because it is this intentional journey that takes years and years and decades in order for you to make movement. And when you can start at 35 on that journey, then you're well ahead of the game when you come to that threshold. So it was super fun and we've taken guys to Scotland. We've taken guys to Ireland for years now. And it just is, it is one of my absolute favorite, favorite experiences. And I'm so, so glad that you got to, you got to join us on this last one. It was so great to have you.
And next time I'm going to try to like peg you with a french fry so that actually sticks in your ear.
Jesse French
Well, would be, that would be next level. That's some dipped ketchup on there. That'd be good. Yeah. So on that trip, Chris, and you kind of lay out, right? There's a span of years that we actually say, Hey, you know, you have to be within this age range to go in light of that. And even just in light, as we think about, like he said, right? Like, what does it look like to step into midlife to this next season of life with greater awareness, with a vision of who we want to be of what this role of the sage, who is he, what does he mark by all those things?
Chris Bruno
Yes. So here we go.
Jesse French
At RP, right? We love our curious questions. And throughout that trip, you guys did such a great job of giving some wonderful curious questions for us to consider at various points throughout the year or throughout the trip. And so I want to ask you this, like, what are some of your favorite questions to ask men who find themselves like in that window, like 35, 59, there's some sort of desire to step into the next season of life with greater intentionality.
What questions do you think they need to be asked? Cause you just told me even before he record, which I thought was brilliant. We didn't have it on here, but you're like the questions that we are asking just on our own, right? Often are not bad, but we need to be able to have other people ask us different questions, right? Like, have you considered this? And so, so as you think about that trip, you think about those men on it, what are some of the important questions that they need to be asked? They need to consider.
Chris Bruno
Yeah. We could spend hours talking about this. In fact, we spend days in Scotland. Yeah. So the first things that come to mind, Jesse, are what are the things that you're finding not working for you? And what I mean by that is you learned how to survive this world and it has gotten you thus far. Like it has gotten you to this place where as a boy you learned how to survive various
and disappointments and things from your life that you learned a strategy in order to survive and to become the man that you are today. And God bless that man and God bless that boy for learning how to survive in those ways. And that is only gonna go so far. And so what are the strategies that you have relied on to become the man that you are that you're just starting to get like the tinges and the recognitions and the like, it's not working as hard, it's not doing as much as it used to. So.
I think physically is a great metaphor for this, that, you know, when you're 19, 20, 25, whatever, you can play ball in a certain way that you no longer can play ball like as, you know, 35, 45, 55. And so something that you learned as a 19 year old, 18 year old, 12 year old, that was good for you for when you were playing ball at one point. And now it's just, you just can't do it anymore. It doesn't, it's not as effective. And that doesn't mean that you are,
like you're defective, but it's not effective. And so what you need is something new for the next season of your life. And you need to do some, some work around like, what is that and what were you trying to survive and how did you get into that space and, and all that, and what might be some other ways of moving into life rather than just like repeat, you know, shampoo, rinse, repeat, kind of on the cycle of just do the same thing over and over and over again. that would be one question.
Jesse French
And you even in your book, you use the phrase like you call them the tremors of midlife. Like, yeah, it's not accidental language. Like they are.
Chris Bruno
Something is shaking underneath you and it feels like the solid ground that was once solid is no longer solid. I think it's an invitation of God to come back to parts of you that you had forgotten or lost or you didn't address or exiled, whatever it is those, in your attempt to survive the broken world, you had to shift your mind into this one direction and leave behind some others. So that's the tremors. Yeah.
Jesse French
That's such a good question, man. Yeah. Try that one out at your like, you know, whatever water cooler. What's not working for you anymore? Yeah. Interrupted yet another one.
Chris Bruno
We
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think the other is who have you had to be and the undertone of that, who have you had to be, who you're not actually. And so the question is then who are you actually and what is covered over what masks have covered over who you actually are because you've become the person you thought you needed to be.
underneath that is the man who you actually are. And I think that man who you actually are is the man who becomes the sage, not the mask, but the man. And so who are you actually? Who have you had to be? And who are you actually? Deep questions that you'll asking.
Jesse French
So deep. I remember standing, I forget, maybe it was like day two or three of the trip. And we kind of gathered at the start of the day and you asked some extensions of these questions specifically around some of the tremors and really helped, you know, like graciously or like, so chew on these throughout the rest of today. We have, you know, some time in the car, we have some time walking, et cetera, doing other things. Like there will be room and space for you to process. remember thinking just like, Oh gosh,
So deep, right? And yet also the acknowledgement of these are the right ones to ask.
Chris Bruno
And these are decade long questions, not day long questions. And that's the hard thing about an experience like this, Jesse, is that it's over the course of nine, 10 days, and there is no way for you to actually answer those questions in that amount of time. And so it's the invitation to start asking the question, and the questions are the journey of the sage, not the destination. So it's like, that's where, as you're asking those questions, as you move across time over the course of your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, like,
asking those questions is gonna move you closer to him, to that sage. So I love that you grappled with that and you're like, crap, I have to do this in this.
Jesse French
Well, I remember even like, and I'm, I love to like do it right. feel like the question, right. I remember like, think towards the dinner, like looking at those again and feeling on one level, the need of like, well, I answered the question, right. You know, and it is this. Frick. some words for it, lot more needed. So Chris, in your book Sage, you know, puts so much more meat on the bone around what that process.
Chris Bruno
Yeah.
Jesse French
can entail and the why those questions are so important to be asked. What would you say for the guys that like you just said, these are questions to ask for a decade. Maybe I'll ask this. How do you continue to ask that question? Like the mindset of, look, you're not going to have the four sentence answer that answers this in a day or a month or a year. How even do you practice the asking of that question for years?
Chris Bruno
so many, so many thoughts there, Jesse. I think that the most basic answer is be among men who are answering, asking those questions. It goes back to one of the like, you know, pillars of what Restoration Project is about, and that is authentic brotherhood. And so if you are in spaces where there are other men who are asking those kinds of questions of their lives and of each other, then it will continue. And that doesn't mean every time you get together with the guys you're doing that, but like over the course of time,
Can you have some rhythms of where are you and even some feedback, some direct, like I'm experiencing you this way right now and I don't think that's actually who you are. I think there's a man behind this and this is our definition of accountability. I'm gonna hold you accountable to be that man, right, and call out that glory, call out that man. So if you can be in brotherhood, that would be the first thing, you know, and men without other men lose themselves.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah. It feels like such a significant shift of, now this is not just a question that I am chewing on. Now this is a conversation that a group of us are sitting in and participating with each other.
Chris Bruno
Yep, with each other. Absolutely. So one of the things that we're shifting actually this year is recognizing that age range from 35 to however old you are is great. And there is an older season, you know, if we, if we kind of take our lives as like a football game and there's, know, the first quarter and the second quarter and the third quarter and the fourth quarter, you know, we look at the Sage as you're entering into Sage when you enter into second half.
the or you start really feeling it those tremors are really there when you're entering into that second half midlife point there is a fourth quarter and guys that are in that fourth quarter time period of their lives are maybe asking some of those same questions they may need to do some of that inner work and all that but they're really a lot closer to the end than they are at the beginning and
the reckoning of their lives starts to elicit even more questions of reflection over the course of their life and what has been and what will they be leaving behind when they are no longer here? so, you know, that fourth quarter I think needs, it is still Sage. It is still like, how am I going to sit down in the seat of the Sage in that fourth quarter?
But some of the questions are a little bit different than maybe that 50 year old or 40 year old who's on the road to this age and doing some of that inner work. And so we're going to split it up this year. Yeah. And you know, those guys that are in that 60 plus age range, we're inviting onto a special experience for just those guys to address some of those, you know, those other kinds of older man questions.
Jesse French
Mm-hmm.
Without giving it all away, what are some of those questions like that those men in that season of life need to be asked? Maybe they wouldn't naturally, you know, be inclined to ask themselves.
Chris Bruno
I heard it once said, Jesse, that so a lot of men in that older timeframe are really thinking about the inheritance that they're going to leave. And I've heard it said actually that an inheritance is the external deposits that you are making in the generations behind you. And a legacy is the internal deposits that you are making in the generation behind you. And so like there's a lot of concern of a lot of older men that
they're going to leave some kind of inheritance. They got their will. They figure out what to do with their investments, their house, all those kinds of things. But we want to help them really think about what is the legacy? What is the internal deposit that you are leaving in the generations that are younger than you? So there's that aspect of things. And in order to do that, right, that internal deposit, we have to back to some of the grim that I've talked about before.
We actually have to address what are the things that you need to grieve and what are the things that you regret. That looking back over the course of your life that you can't undo, but have had costs both to you and to others that have maybe nullified some of the deposits that you're hoping to make. And so really kind of sitting with that aspect of like, what do I need to grieve? What do I regret? And then how do I invite Jesus into the space?
of that space to invest in me so that I can invest in them. So that experience is a separate Sage experience that we're running this year. Those men will be going to Ireland this year. And then the other Sage trip that you and I were on this last year is in Scotland. So I'm super excited about it.
Jesse French
Yeah, as you and the team were processing around that and ideating around, you know, the potential of adding the second trip. makes me so excited, right? Like just the ability to have dedicated space, right? To be asked these questions, to recognize like the particularity in which men find themselves in, in the season and to, to be given space and people and experience that wonders around that. So, so needed.
Chris Bruno
Yeah, it is needed and there's a lot to learn and there's a lot to learn from each other and to sit in spaces outside of our normal kind of experiences to do some both fun boyish kinds of things as an old man and also have those deeper conversations is so needed. Yeah.
Jesse French
Yeah. All right. So I'm going to ask one practical question for those trips, the Scotland trip, which is for the younger guys, I think is 35 to 59. Yep. And the Ireland trip, is for the older gentlemen, believe if I'm getting that right, is 55. Yep. So there's some overlap there. And so for the guy that's like, man, each of these sound interesting and appealing to me and are in that 55 to 59 where they could go on either one of those. Yeah. What?
guidance or wondering. Yeah. Might you say to someone as they, they try to wander through that.
Chris Bruno
Yeah, well, I mean, if you're in that five year overlap age range and you guys were not checking birth certificates, right? So you make
Jesse French
I'm Chris won't check a birth certificate. I won't let you into regret.
Chris Bruno
No, so I will not. So, but it's really up to you to decide which one is best for you. And there's something about facing the reality of your mortality that the second group needs to have a little bit of an experience of. And when you're in that 55 and younger or 59 and younger, you may have that, you may not have that. And so there is that piece of recognizing like your mortality.
And then the other part of it is to fit in the, you're an older guy and you're wondering, well, I want to go on the younger one. Great. You can come on that younger one because of you are wanting to do the internal work of settling, of ownership, of recognizing, as I said before, like there may have been some parts of you, some ways of surviving that you need to kind of recognize the impact of in your own life and in the lives around you.
and maybe you're feeling the tremors and you don't know what to do with them. Maybe you have a sense that, you know, I thought it was just retirement and you just go off and you do your thing and you need to grapple with some of the reality of what Sage is about. What is a Sage and how does, what does he look like and how does he inhabit the world? That other trip, the Scotland trip, the younger trip would be good for you. But if you've, if you've done some of that work and if you've sat in some of those places and you're also like, I'm kind of have more of a subtleness inside of me.
And I also want to make sure that I make the most of my fourth quarter and develop the sense of legacy that I can deposit in the internal deposits into the generations younger than me. And I recognize that there's probably some work that I need to do around getting to the place where I can do that. Then the second one would be for you. Love it.
Jesse French
Yeah, food fights probably will happen at both.
Chris Bruno
You never know. never know what's going to happen.
Jesse French
I'm ready for anything.
Chris Bruno
Yes. So, and right now there are still spots available on both. That's right.
Jesse French
Yep.
We'll put in the show notes the link to both of those strips that has more information on it.
Chris Bruno
Yep. And they are at the beginning of 2026. So in end of January, end of February are the two trips. So yeah, looking forward to it.
Jesse French
Love it. Chris, thanks.
Chris Bruno
Yeah, absolutely. Good to be with you. And till the next food fight, Jesse.
Jesse French
Can't wait. Can't wait.