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British Columbia is in the grips of a housing affordability crisis decades in the making. The Province has an ambitious plan to tackle the crisis through the largest investment in housing affordability in B.C.’s history. Tasked with building tens of thousands of homes in hundreds of communities is BC Housing, the agency responsible for developing, managing, and administering a wide range of subsidized housing and homelessness services across the province. BC Housing doesn’t do this alone, they work with hundreds of partners. In this podcast, you’ll hear from those tackling the crisis head on.
Hello and welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Sara Goldvine.
In today's episode,
we'll explore the powerful connection
between pets and their people
living in the Downtown Eastside.
For many in this community,
pets are more than just animals.
They are loyal companions
offering unconditional love
and support
in often challenging circumstances.
We'll also talk about the findings
of a two year pilot partnership
between BC Housing and the BCSPCA,
which has shed light
on the unique experiences of pet owners
in the Downtown Eastside
and opportunities for customized, pet
friendly housing policies.
Joining me for the conversation
today are Diane Waters,
Outreach Specialist with the BCSPCA,
and Mandy Isaacs,
Assistant Manager at the Vancouver
Community Animal centre shelter.
Also joining me is BC Housing’s
own Mita Naidu as co-host.
Before we get underway,
I'd like to acknowledge that we're
recording today's session on the unceded
traditional territories of the Musqueam,
Squamish, and Tsleil-Wautuths
who have been caretakers of these lands
since time immemorial.
We offer our gratitude to their peoples
past, present, and future.
Also, in full transparency,
we are recording today's episode in
November of 2024, and so our conversation
reflects the priorities of this time.
Diane.
Mandy,
Mita, welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
Thank you so much.
Diane, I'd love if you could just set
us off with a little bit of context here.
What is this pilot program that
the BCSPCA has and why did it get started?
Yeah, absolutely. So,
the BCSPCA has
recently concluded, a two year
pilot program, in conjunction
with the BC Housing organization,
in order to try and create pet friendly,
supportive housing spaces within BC
Housing spaces
that are already set up and running.
So, essentially this became
a project after the 2021 decampment
of the Strathcona Park area.
So for background, in 2021 2020,
Strathcona Park in Vancouver
had become a long term transient
centre for a lot of folks
that were unhoused.
So we had quite a few tents
and makeshift lean-tos and shelters
kind of set up in this area.
And unfortunately,
due to the amount of people
and the amount of pets in that area,
the park became uninhabitable
and unsafe for folks to live in.
And so,
it became a goal with BC Housing
in conjunction with the government
to get folks out of the park
and into safe spaces to housed.
So BC Housing
really
took off with that and was amazing,
except through the experience,
unfortunately, one of the BC Housing staff
members, was bit by a dog in the park.
And so that kind of led
the BC Housing staff
to kind of reach out to the BCSPCA
to ask for pointers on how
we could potentially avoid these things
in the future.
And so,
that conversation
ended up turning into a two year
pilot program where we developed resources
and recommendations for BC Housing
moving forward in pet guardianship.
I was here at that time.
I remember how heated that was.
Two years is not a long time.
And yet here we are, with a lot
that has been done that was not done
right to just over two years ago.
Like this was pretty new.
This approach,
at least here in British Columbia.
Can you tell us a little bit
about what you've found so far?
Yeah. So,
the project's first year was
fully geared towards understanding
and basically conversation
and relationship building, with folks
who are living in the BC
Housing spaces and also,
staff members in BC Housing.
So what we decided to do
in the beginning, before we even started
any of our research, was
we had Camden Consulting,
which is an Indigenous consulting firm,
help us kind of navigate
how we were going to approach this.
Considering that the Downtown Eastside
population has a large number
of First Peoples.
And so we really wanted to make sure
that we were gearing this in a way
that was equitable, had diversity
and inclusion involved in our planning.
So we spent the first 10% of our budget
kind of engaging
with Indigenous coordinators and folks
that may be able to help us
kind of put an Indigenous lens
onto the work that we were doing.
And so,
one of the main things that we learned,
in the starting process of this was that
talking circles were a really great way
to engage the community,
especially our First Peoples.
And when going into spaces
where there are lots of vulnerable folks,
it made a huge difference to be able
to gather everyone together in a circle,
in a safe space, and to chat about what
the needs were, and then really go off
of what people in the building were seeing
and then also what staff were seeing.
So we started there doing surveys
on the ground interviews, talking circles,
and then info sessions with residents
where we would go into
eleven selected BC Housing sites
and kind of connect with the staff
and the residents there to see
what their main concerns were.
So that was our first year,
and then the second year of the pilot
was geared towards tackling some of those
concerns, providing resources,
for those concerns and trying to mitigate
and create initiatives
to kind of assist in levelling
those concerns out or decreasing,
the amount of concerns
that that staff and residents had.
That's so interesting.
Diane, I you know, you've made,
as Sara was pointing out, you've made such
big leaps in these kinds of connections
between
human beings and their pets.
Mandy, can you tell us a bit
more about the relationship
between pets and unhoused folks,
especially in the Downtown Eastside?
Something I've witnessed
is this deep connection.
And I think there is a tie
to a very holistic idea
of relationship and family and community,
especially in the Downtown Eastside.
Can you tell us more about that?
Yeah. For sure.
I mean, there's no denying the connection
between people
and their animals, and it's no different
than my relationship to my dog.
I depend heavily on my animals
at the end of a long, hard day,
and sometimes it's what gets these people
up and going and moving.
And like Diane said,
our goal is to work with them,
to listen to them
and to help provide the resources for them
so that they can keep their family
together and intact.
And so my role through the Community
Animal Centre is to help support
and give them the resources
that they need to be able to have safe
pets and safe relationships
with their animals at home.
What are some of the challenges
you're coming across in that effort?
I think some of the challenges,
I think people's perception of why
they should have pets,
or if they should have pets
is truly a big challenge
that they have to overcome.
I think a lot of people
don't look at the big picture
and see that these animals are what drives
these people to get up every day,
and it gives them a purpose in life.
I think some of the challenges
they come up against
is accessibility to veterinary care,
to spay/neuter resources.
Sometimes when they're struggling,
simple things
like food and bedding and shelter
for their animals are some things
that they've come up against.
And the SPCA is here to try and help
provide and mitigate that problem.
There's something really important
about pets
and the relationships to people's
mental health as you're pointing out.
As you mentioned, the mental health
benefits, but a sense of responsibility,
improved quality of life, companionship,
emotional support.
You know, when we think
of all the benefits that animals
provide their owners, we could keep going.
Yeah.
When you take the judgment
out of people owning animals
and you can
actually see the beautiful side
of some of these marginalized communities
and the relationships with the animals
that they have, it's a person's problem.
It's our problem to judge these people
and think that they can't
have these animals
because they don't provide the same
enrichment for their animals that we do.
But when you take that judgment
away from it,
and you actually see the beautiful
relationship and the connection
and that these people will put
their animals needs before theirs
most days,
and for me to be able to support
somebody who feels that passionately
and who lives that strongly
in a relationship with their animal,
all I want to do is support it.
And so that's what I'm here to do.
Tell us a success story.
There's so many that we see everyday
at our centre.
I always say to our team
and to our volunteers,
if somebody knocks on our door
and asks for help,
we never turn them away.
We don't judge
and we never turn them away.
And we do our absolute best
to try and help them
with whatever situation they're in.
But it doesn't take a lot to really feel
that and to see that connection
between people.
I have my own dog.
I take them to work
sometimes and walk him home and
we walk by this one building where
there's a number of residents that live
and they have their pets,
and we know them because they pop by
sometimes to ask for things.
And there's this one gentleman
who has the loveliest, loveliest dog,
and they are just like two peas in a pod.
They just live for each other.
And I know him well from stopping by
and we just stopped to chat
because our dogs really love each other.
And I noticed he had a rope for a leash,
just a rope.
And it was starting to fray a little bit.
And she was a bit of a puller.
And I said, you know,
you need to come by the shelter
and we'll get you a new leash and stuff.
And he had a sore leg, and he said
it was hard for him to get there.
And so I just did a switch right there
on the street, right on the spot.
I was like, you can take my dog's
leash, I'll take yours.
And that way you don't have to worry
about the leash breaking or tethering
and her getting loose,
which would be the worst thing for him.
You would think that I handed him
$1 million check,
he was so excited
and just so overwhelmed and so grateful
that I was able to give him a leash
and just his dog could safely be secured.
And I think that what we don't understand
a lot of people is for me,
if my dog's leash is starting to fray and,
you know, become a danger, it's
just one more thing on my list of errands
to do that day.
One more thing that I have to remember
to go out and do, and purchase
a new leash for my dog so that, you know,
I'm not having the same issue.
But for him,
I changed his day, and I made sure
that he and his dog were safe and happy.
So, I mean, it can be something as simple
as just giving somebody a a nice leash.
You know, and just to follow up on that,
what can we do?
What can Sara and I do as a regular folk,
privileged folk with power?
How can we support programs like this?
I think talking about it is a big thing.
You know, I think a lot of people...
another story
I had is, you know, I was at my daughter’s
soccer game three weeks ago.
It was cold. It was rainy.
I got out of the car thinking,
oh, I want to do this.
It’s so cold!
don't want to stand here for two hours.
And, you know, I walked into the washroom
at the soccer field and there was a woman
there who had spent the night,
probably in the washroom.
She was drying her socks in the dryer,
and I instantly thought, oh,
you know, I had a word with myself.
Like, how dare I be so upset
about having to stand here, you know?
And as we were chatting
and I asked her how she was doing
this gigantic dog came
walking out of one of the stalls
of the washroom and he was this gigantic,
huge, beautiful pit bull.
And I had a moment with him and chatted
and told her he was lovely
and like, you know,
had they spent the night there?
And she said they did.
And I said, do you have a jacket for him
in this weather
and do you have enough food?
And she said, I don't.
And I said, well,
the shelter's really close,
so I can give them a call
and have them put some stuff aside for you
so that you can swing by and pick it up
so that you guys aren't cold tonight.
And so I just had her go and pick up food
and a jacket and a bed and things
for her dog.
And, you know, I made her whole day
and I had the team set it aside.
She went and picked it up.
But then to come outside and,
you know, listen to people be like, oh,
she's in the washroom and she shouldn’t
be there, and people shouldn't have pets
if they can't take care of their pets
and they don't have a home.
And that is not a solution.
Judging people for having pets
and not having a home,
or not having the same resources
that we have, is not a solution.
A solution is to help them
so that they can have their pets
so that they can be warm
and their pets can be fed,
and they can feel like
they're taking care of their animals,
because that's all she had that day
was that dog.
So it's our job to make sure that she can
provide for that dog and continue,
you know, improving her quality of life
by having a pet.
So what we can do is
we can stop the conversations
that we have about them not having pets.
We can do donation drives.
If your kids are getting together
for Christmas parties,
instead of doing a potluck,
do an SPCA donation drive,
you know, reach out to your local centres,
find out what specific things they need.
Do they need cat treats?
Do they need dog food?
Do they need beds?
Have the kids do a donation drives.
Kids love to contribute
and be a part of that.
Have them come in for a tour
and see the animals.
So I think the best thing we can do
is to not pass judgment
and try and be a part of the solution
instead of the problem.
So one thing that folks might not be aware
of is that BC Housing, our staff
have an annual giving campaign,
and I'm raising it
because we're recording this in November
and we're actually midway.
We're almost at the end of our
annual giving campaign. And
one of
the priority charities that BC Housing
staff identified is BCSPCA and Charlie's
Pet Food Bank.
Which I think for for new employees
at BC Housing, they're like Hmmm.
And then once folks work here
for a little while or work at working
community can really...
it just makes sense.
I think for some of us who work
with communities to really...
we can see the connection,
but maybe some of our listeners don't.
So I'm wondering, Diane,
can you help make the connection?
Like why is it so important for folks
who are experiencing housing insecurity,
for folks who are experiencing
homelessness, or for folks who perhaps
are now in stable housing, but
who have had that experience in the past,
what is the link between
having a pet and housing?
Why is that important?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I think kind of to start off,
the population in the Downtown
Eastside, it's
such a microcosm and it's so different
than anywhere else that we see,
especially like provincially for sure,
but even nationally, it's tricky
because we live in such a temperate
climate compared to the rest of Canada.
We do get a lot of transient people
from other provinces coming out this way.
Even the folks that are coming out
from different provinces
or people who have lived in B.C.
their whole lives, the folks
that are living in the Downtown
Eastside
often don't have a sense of community
other than their Downtown
Eastside brothers and sisters.
A lot of them don't have family members
or friends to support
or for whatever reason,
they might be on their own.
And so a lot of these folks,
when they do get pets,
have that sense of family,
and it's reconnected and they have
companionship and they have love
and they have care in their lives.
And like
Mandy was saying,
the human animal bond is so incredible.
It builds such a sense of accountability
and responsibility.
And we've seen this a number of times,
even just working in the Downtown Eastside
or working provincially with the Pet Food
Bank program at the SPCA.
It builds a sense of responsibility
in clients
and our service members to do better
for themselves
and to do better for their pets.
For example, I spoke with a man
probably three weeks ago at Charlie's
Pet Food Bank who came by and he wanted
to drop off a donation of money,
and we were like, oh, are you sure?
Like, that's really generous.
You don't have to.
We're here to just help support.
And he said that in the past few years,
he had been accessing the pet food
bank program and that it helped him
get through a tough time with his cat.
And now that him and his cat
were able to find housing again,
he was able to focus more on finding safe
housing with BC Housing,
as opposed to worrying about where he and
his cat are going to get the next meal.
And so he was able to, instead of focusing
on figuring out where to get food,
and how to feed his pet,
he was able to focus on instead,
finding a safe space to live, figuring out
ways to kind of get over his addiction.
And since then, he's become way
more stable, in the environment.
And so now that he's comfortable,
he wanted to give back to the people
that had been helping him and help others
the way that we were able to help him.
So, with his donation,
we were able to purchase more pet food
for other cats that may need assistance.
And so I think that...
And this is like one of many stories
we hear, I've heard of folks
who have completely stopped
using drugs and alcohol
just because they feel like their pet
deserves a more attentive owner,
or I've had people who are going through
harm reduction approaches
to try and wean themselves
away from their addictions,
but because they have an animal,
they're like, oh, I don't want to use me
or my animal for XYZ reasons so
I find a safe place for my animal to go.
Wow, I'm doing that.
And it slowly starts
building this accountability
and the sense of pride
and animal ownership.
And I think that that's really,
really good for folks
who are living rough
because it gives them purpose.
And when you have purpose,
there's a reason to move through life.
And so I just think that it's really,
really important that
that we're doing this work
and that BC Housing is doing this work
and that we continue looking at
animal
welfare and human welfare
as, one health, one welfare approach,
meaning that if we want to help animals,
we need to help
the people associated with the animals.
And we need to also help our environment.
And so since they're all interconnected,
we can't do one without the other.
And so I think, like Mandy was saying,
trying to have these conversations
and removing bias and trying to understand
that folks who have animals
who may be unhoused
or maybe living different than we are,
doesn't mean that they aren't deserving
or good pet owners.
I think it's it's just a matter of our
thoughts and feelings towards differences.
And if we can kind of eliminate that
and instead encourage compassion
and assistance, we'll see folks
moving out of these hard, rough spaces
and finding more sustainable ways
of assisting themselves and their pets.
And so I think it's a really important
conversation to have.
I'm thinking of listeners
that are owners of properties
or owners of buildings.
What do we say to them
to help build this kind of reference
when they are,
you know, dealing with
dangerous pets, dangerous animals,
other owners of private housing
in which there are complaints.
What would you say to them to help
alleviate the stigma and the fear?
I think that the resistance
that we're seeing comes
from the negative stories
we're seeing in the media.
A lot of the time, media is focusing on
the bad pit bull who bit a family
friendly dog at the dog park.
And this pit bull is owned
by XYZ person, right.
So we're really focusing on things that
they're more negative,
of course, and we're
focusing on these sensationalized stories
that don't happen as often as we think
they do, especially when we're talking
like breed specifics and in rental spaces.
So lack of pet friendly housing
is a huge problem that we're seeing.
It's increasing
our levels of homelessness.
Because
people would rather choose
homelessness than surrender their pet.
And this is how strong a human animal bond
is, that attachment is so strong
that people would rather
live with their dog outside
than give the dog up to be
in a warm, safe environment.
And so knowing that,
I think it's really important that we work
on government relations and chatting about
more pet friendly, accessible housing.
Part of this
is that there are ways to mitigate
behaviours in animals
that might be deemed negative.
So, for example, a lot of people,
when they see
a dog in a muzzle,
they think, oh, that's a bad dog.
Whereas realistically
that's a wonderful pet owner.
That person knows that
maybe their dog's reactive,
maybe their dog doesn't like men,
maybe their dog is scared of children.
Whatever it is, they know that
there may be a risk of a nip or a jump
and so to kind of mitigate that risk,
they do muzzle training with their dogs.
And so that way
they're keeping their dog safe and they're
keeping the public safe as well.
And these are one of the things that you
can do quite easily, at home by yourself,
just by reinforcement training with treats
to help a dog get used to a muzzle,
or keep your dogs on a leash.
These are all things that you can do
to kind
of mitigate any potential risk factors.
And I think that the risk is so much
higher or lower
than we think it is, like the risk in
the media has been inflated.
So when you're
looking at actual records of,
you know, dog
bites, it's not as common as we think.
And if they are, these are things
that can be mitigated before it happens.
It's just about knowing the signs and
potentially reaching out for assistance.
So at the BC SPCA,
we do have an animal training program
which is high welfare training,
specialized trainers
that deal with positive reinforcement only
and are able to assist
people who may need help
mitigating behaviours in their dogs
or training behaviours in their dogs.
So that's a very helpful resource.
And then we also have a ton of educational
information
online on our website
and also within the BC SPCA as well.
So if you're not able to find what you're
looking for online, you're welcome to
email us at any point and we can send you
any kind of information, to kind of help
ease any of those nerves
or transition periods
with pet ownership and housing.
That's fantastic.
I'd like to squeeze in one final question.
As we look ahead to...
the pilot project has wrapped up.
Mandy, what would your hopes be for,
you know, for
how BC Housing works with the BC SPCA or
the province worked
with the BC SPCA in the years ahead.
I would like to get away
from sheltering animals.
And I think in order to do that,
we have to have more pet friendly housing.
We have to have more access to
subsidized veterinary care,
spay/neuter clinics, because what happens
is, if we're not providing those resources
to communities,
then our shelters are becoming overwhelmed
with animals, right?
Which is just another problem in itself.
If an animal is not spayed or neutered,
the shelters are dealing with the 6
to 12 kittens or puppies every year
that are coming from that, when we can
simply just spay or neuter the animals.
So for me, more pet friendly housing,
and more subsidized
veterinary care is what I
would like to see change.
Part of our final report with BC Housing
was offering a number of recommendations
and part of this was recommending
that pet friendly buildings
or social assistance buildings,
where social housing is available.
One of the recommendations is having kind
of a subsidy per animal in the building.
So the average expenditure on a pet
per year,
for most people is about $1100
in veterinary care.
And so, we do highly recommend
that social housing spaces
keep a little money aside,
for each pet in the building
in case of emergency,
in case they need to get vaccinated,
in case they need to get spayed
or neutered to kind of help mitigate
those problems, like Mandy was saying.
The excessive litters
that are coming into the shelters,
to help with disease spread.
So, making sure animals have their first
round of vaccinations to avoid
spreading these diseases
to other animals in the community.
And I think also the big thing is
we are hoping
to lean away from sheltering animals,
and not because
we don't agree with sheltering
and we don't want to shelter them.
But realistically, animal
welfare is they do better in a house,
in a home environment.
And so leaning more towards fostering
and having animals
stay with their families
is a huge goal of the BC SPCA.
And in 2025 will be rolling out
a new strategic plan.
We've put in a ton of effort and time
into restructuring
kind of our goals as an organization.
And the executive leadership
team have really transformed
the way that we want to help animals
and communities.
So, we will be looking at more outreach
programs,
more assistance in communities
and more work with vulnerable populations
to ensure that we're proactively
keeping animals safe,
keeping animals fed, and, keeping animals
in good behavioural standing
so that they don't
have to come into shelters, after all,
they can stay with their families and stay
in communities where they're happiest.
And so, that's kind of
what our organization is leaning towards.
And hopefully will be effective
in rolling out some pet friendly
housing policies with other organizations
and we'll see some changes.
Excited to see what comes.
Diane and Mandy, thank you so much
for joining us on Let's Talk Housing.
And special
thanks to Mita for helping cohost today.
We'll talk again soon.
To learn more about BC Housing,
including how to apply for
subsidized housing in British
Columbia, visit bchousing.org.
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