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The podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world.
If you’re a founder, executive, or high-ranking leader, you already know this truth: the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Lonely at the Top is a sanctuary in the storm—a space where the emotional cost of leadership is named, and where relief, clarity, and grounded support are always on the table.
Hosted by Soul Medic and former psychotherapist Rachel Alexandria, this podcast dives into the unspoken realities of high-level decision-making: the pressure, the isolation, the doubt, and the fatigue. Each episode offers insight, emotional tools, and conversations with seasoned leaders who’ve learned to navigate the weight of responsibility without losing themselves.
📍 I could tell myself a story and convince myself, you don't know. You're not sure. You're not doing what an executive should do. You don't know enough.
should I be here? Am I doing the right things? Am I good enough? That's the, spiral in your mind and when you're by yourself more
you have more of it.
Welcome to The Lonely At the Top podcast for high level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world on their shoulders. Because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to. Here we welcome founders, executives, and decision makers who feel the isolation and pressure that comes with power.
Lonely at the top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, Soul medic and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria. With us today is Erin Reeves, the co-founder and principal at Next Level Org. Erin is an accomplished executive strategist, advisor, and coach. With over 25 years of experience shaping people-centric organizations and cultures that align with business goals, with insight and unwavering passion, Erin transforms the gap between knowing and doing.
Into measurable and inevitable progress. That almost sounds like what is, what's the terminal positivity?
That's right
like you will succeed. It's inevitable
Because we say
because we say so.
that's right.
Tell us a little bit more about your experience. You and I are, are pretty new to each other and I would just love to hear some things about what got you to where you are now.
Yeah, it's funny you're describing entrepreneurs and, business executives and decision makers, and I find myself in all three camps, um,
Hmm.
with the entrepreneur hat being the newest. But, certainly it's, fun to be in this space and think about leadership and lonely at the top is, a phrase I've used over and over again. For myself personally, and you know,
Hmm.
in, in my coaching and in supporting, so my 25 plus years, which is by the way, what you'll hear from me for the next 10, I've decided to stop counting and just leave the plus sign now.
Yeah.
I'm not sure what the plus gets me, but definitely, we're in the plus category now.
Mm-hmm.
so it is just that rise, right? My lens growing up in corporate America was the HR people operations lens. I went to college for it, which is pretty unusual to go get a business degree with a focus in hr and then spend your whole career
Yeah.
doing it.
Yeah.
an anomaly.
And, and it was kind of by mistake.
was always gonna be a business major
Okay.
craft your classes together and what you can take, which term the HR track was my fastest path out.
Wow.
what I chose. So it was.
but not super purposeful. It was just like, how can I get out of here, um, as, as soon possible. And here we are, 25 plus years later, kind of. Living in that world. I think, you know when once you step into that executive hat, whatever lens you bring to the table gets expanded across all of those other elements of the organization that you work in. So you get a unique insight into finance and legal and sales and engineering or manufacturing depending on what kind of an organization that you're in.
And that's one of the things I really loved about wearing that people hat
Mm-hmm.
All of those parts of the organization have people. So I had permission to play and learn and understand and , poke and kind of stick my nose in places, that not all leaders maybe feel like they can .
Yeah, because you were in hr, you're saying that's Yeah. You got to see everything really.
It is, it's a see everything role. And it's a role that's positioned, to support the employees, but also to support the leaders.
Mm-hmm.
know, lots of
In and of that, but have always been, aligned with, next to locking arms with, at each rung of the ladder, leaders in the organization and trying to build that connection between leaders and the rest of, the company, the organization, the nonprofit, whatever, wherever I was working at the time.
You know, HR has always been a curiosity for me because. To be honest, I've never worked in corporate.
Yeah.
I've, I've always worked for either the government or myself. So, I think I understand, but for those who don't really know the inside of hr, what can you say, I don't want people to be bored, like this might just be a question for me, but if you were gonna really describe what is HR really?
Yeah. Yeah. I think it depends on where you are, because I, the, the good answers always start with, it depends, right? I mean, that's
Yeah.
it goes. But I think there's two or three different elements. I think the first off, which is kind of, the me-me me part of hr, which is the policy compliance, the HR lady, and
Mm-hmm.
Kind of the rule keeper and the police of the, the organization. I think,
Yeah.
my opinion, it's a bit of a bad rap, right? I wanna say not all HR people, but you know.
Yeah. Yeah,
It is what it is. And I do think, most people operating in integrity wanna follow the rules and the laws and understand
sure.
how it works. So that's one component. I do think
Hmm.
there's this kind of cultural responsibility that follows under hr, which I actually think lives with all leaders and the whole company,
Hmm.
just hr, but I often see it tucked underneath, human resources. And there's this whole other, strategic organizational planning, talent development. So there's this arm that is compliance and rules and follow the rules, write the handbook, and then there's this build the organization, create the experience for employees. And I really think of it as enabling employees to do their best work. And in line with them, the company strategy or the organization or the government, whichever entity you're in. but that connecting the dot from the strategy to the people and creating the environment is what does it feel like to come to work that day? But it's also that attract and retain and what benefits are you offering? And what professional development and what's the career path and how do we support, mentor, our employees?
So in my mind there's kind of this like, here are the rules. The rules are the rules. Let's do the rules. And then there's this create environment. Where people can come do their best work and putting the right people in the right places at the right time.
I am so glad I asked. What a great explanation. And that's helpful to think about. One branch is like the cops and the judiciary, and then one branch is, like habitat cultivation, essentially
Yeah.
like work habitat.
Yeah. And it will operate differently in the organization depending on, where the leader shows up and what the organization allows. Right?
Mm-hmm.
It's like not every sales team, not every engineering team operates the same way. The same is true for HR
Mm-hmm.
in my experience.
So you said something about walking arm in arm with executive leadership. Yeah. What's that like? Where did you often find yourself? And because of the topic of the podcast is lonely at the top, you said you often found yourself saying that we'd love some insight into
how? How did that happen? What was your experience with that? What was isolating? What did you do about it?
I think I first noticed that lonely at the top before I got there, and I
Okay.
you know, because you're in human resources, often if there's a challenge on a team or with a leader, you're called in as a business partner to work alongside them and help smooth and navigate those waters and, figure out the best path forward. so you become, in a good relationship and a good HR business partner, someone that they can, open up to and talk to and partner with. And if you understand the business and understand people and can put those things together, it creates clarity and confidence for that leader to do what they need to do to move the situation forward.
Mm-hmm.
and oftentimes in those conversations, it was like, oh my gosh, I was afraid to say this to anyone and I had no idea you could help me. And I feel so much better. Because I know
Mm. The leader would say that to you?
a leader would say that,
Yeah.
like, I've got this thing, I don't know what to do.
Uhhuh.
And they're not necessarily telling their boss that, or their peers that, but they
Mm
a good relationship will tell their HR business partner that,
gotcha.
And so growing up in, being in a role that is supporting, managers and employees being in that position. I got to hear like, oh, I'm not sure what to do.
Mm-hmm.
people were coming to get support and hopefully getting it, sometimes good, sometimes bad. Nothing is all good or
Mm-hmm.
But that was the first time, when I started to notice.
And then as you climb the rung every, you know, your supervisor and a manager or a director and a senior director and a vp, and then. All of a sudden you find yourself at the top. Each rung is a little bit higher. you don't know what you don't know, and the view changes. I think the steps get bigger as you climb each rung of that ladder. So when I landed in the executive team, all of a sudden I'm looking around at a table and I'm like, okay, here, here I am. I'm at, I'm at the table. And, and part of it was like, this is it? This is the table. This is really the table? So
Yeah.
question mark piece,
Yeah,
around and you're like, it's that fake it till you make it.
'cause you don't really
yeah.
And by the time you're in executive spaces, there's not as many people around you who have been there and done that. There aren't as many peers. Depending on your network, there may not be someone to give you a roadmap, especially if you're in a situation, you know, if you were groomed and someone's second for years and got to come in and see it, that transition might have been easier.
Yeah.
you know,
That wasn't your experience.
and many others, it's kind of like, well here you go. And it's figuring
Yeah.
what that means. And, you can be surrounded by the best team and still feel lonely 'cause you're trying to figure it out.
And you don't feel like you can go to your colleague who's the another executive and say, how do I do my job?
I, I think that's true. I think that's true at every level. And especially true at the executive level.
yeah.
I think too, if you like everyone and if there is, some disconnect
Yeah,
on the team, it's that much harder to show vulnerability or, feeling like you might be asking dumb questions.
And I would say
Asking questions is, a really powerful way test the waters. I think it's a
yeah.
powerful tool in the executive suite and in any organization in any level. It's just when you start to ask questions that are insightful or that lead other people to insights it, can be really powerful and a great way to find your place at the table and your point of view and learn, and then, have an opinion. You ask good questions and get good answers. They'll make space for you in the conversation.
Can you give us an example? I'd love to hear a story of a time where you, you did that you've created space for yourself through smart question asking.
I think, I've done a series of M and As in my experience, over the years merger and aquisition, merger and acquisitions so.
Thank you. Thank you.
I'm in an organization, we might buy this other organization. Usually, by the time I hear about it, we've done some financial and some market assessment and we start to think about people and it really is the culture that can make or break and what the plan is afterwards.
So, I started asking questions about, well, what about this? And how's this gonna work? And what's that gonna mean? And they started to impact the decision and they wished that we had asked those questions earlier. And so then by asking those questions at whatever time it came into my purview over time, I got brought in earlier and earlier because my lens, what I was bringing, my unique perspective was helpful in the overall decision making process as an example,
That's such a great suggestion.
So that's one element. I would say a second way is to learn more about, those areas around you. I wasn't a go-to-market expert, still, I'm not an expert, but I know a lot more about, revenue funnels and things than I ever did before. And asking questions like, why do you think about it that way? Or what would good look like?
Mm-hmm.
some really basic questions as you're building your own knowledge base of the business because every business is different, is just really powerful and then you have data and you can take, that data with your unique brain and experience and put it together and I, I think, be really impactful.
You know what's interesting? The last interview I did, with John Valencia, he mentioned multiple times having a unique brain. So I'm starting to, I'm noticing thematic elements that move across the interviews as I do them in this podcast, and starting to really notice that people who are in leadership have unique brains.
Unique brains and they value their perspective.
Mm-hmm.
to think , I bring something, no one else does.
Mm-hmm.
My experience, my background, the way I see the world is mine. And how do I share it in a way that's meaningful and impactful and that it's worth it ?
If I'm thinking a thing, am I the only person thinking that thing? Probably not. But it's,
Mm-hmm.
it's a unique way of thinking and it's just honoring what? You know. You didn't get to that room by mistake, right? You didn't get there by mistake, and the road you took gave you all of this information. And so you're entering this new place. Get a lay of the land, figure it out, ask your questions, and then let your brain do its thing. And start to either ask questions or assert or, get yourself into those conversations. And don't be afraid to bring your unique perspective. So I'm the only one asking this question is more valuable than I'm the third person to ask the question.
For sure. Yeah, so, well, I hear that that's part of the strategy. You used to find your place in the executive team or whatever, as you upleveled in your different teams. Did that also impact your experience of being lonely or isolated?
What you just heard is the rose colored version of how that went. Right. I think this is the perspective that this is the 25 plus years of experience. I won't say it
Right.
so well.
Uh.
so it's, it's an evolution and it's a practice. And it gets better over time. And the lonely at the top internally to organizations.
I think there, there is, often, kind of an, not wanting to be vulnerable, not wanting to look like you don't know the thing.
Yeah.
questions is a way around that until you do know the thing. but I really started to value, I. When you're in there and you're trying to do it on your own, you have your team, and then you have this thing right here that insides your brain that, that, for me, like besides a unique brain, I think that pops out in the lonely at the top for me because I could tell myself a story and convince myself, Oh, you don't know. You're not sure. You're not doing what an executive should do. You don't know enough. You know those
Hmm.
that you tell yourself about, should I be here? Am I doing the right things? Am I good enough? All of those things. That's the, spiral in your mind and when you're by yourself more.
And have
You have more of it?
you have more of it.
Yeah.
figuring out how to notice it. Like, oh, I'm in my head about this is a great place to start, and then what do you do about that? And, and so
What do you do about that?
do you do about that? Well,
Well, I know what I do about that, but I wanna know what you do about that.
maybe do lots of, many things around that, but I see lots of people reading books,
I see, you
Mm-hmm.
I see, folks that, run and exercise and do those things you know
Mm-hmm.
to get what I think about as outside in perspective? And I think you can notice about yourself and get like is it true? Like you can ask yourself, is it true?
Mm-hmm.
how do I know it's true?
And what if it was false?
Mm-hmm.
So there's this mental gymnastics, I call it,
Sort of the Byron Katie stuff, or like CBT kind of questions. Yeah.
how do I get myself out of my brain and just make sure I at different periods in my life and work life, it wasn't enough to just question myself. I really needed outside in thinking and somebody, so you have to find somebody that knows enough, but not too much, is close, but not too close, right?
Because you wanna talk about. The situation or the thing that you're doing. Sometimes that can be a coach, sometimes it's a girlfriend, and you're not sharing secrets of mergers and acquisitions, like no one's going to jail for what you're talking about.
Mm-hmm.
to be confidential.
It is. But there are ways to, tap on people, to get some outside in thinking that I think can really be helpful in, getting out of your own way. In a leadership role, and if you spend too much time, know, you have to spend enough time managing yourself that you're in a good place and that you're leading with, integrity in yourself so that you can actually lead your team.
If you spend too much time inside and that swirl, then the connection to your team tends to, fritter away a little bit. So,
Hmm.
and if you're not taking care of yourself, you can't take care of your team, and so it really is.
And you also can't take care of yourself. Right.
Like I can't take care of myself or my team or myself, and then we're, we're, you can get in this cycle.
And so both, you know, personal experience and just 25 plus years, hundreds of leaders I've worked around or beside, it's not up and to the right all the time. It goes up and down in terms of how folks are managing and levels of stress. And it has to do with work. It has to do with personal, it has to do with life, right?
Life life is gonna life, Things are gonna come and it's, you know, our life and our work are gonna impact each other and intersect in lots of ways. So figuring out how to do that, how to lead yourself, get your oxygen mask on, think about how to get settled in your team. Think about how to, impact the broader organization.
Those are really what we're just talking about here is the impetus behind leaving corporate and starting an entrepreneur and starting Next Level Org was how can I help leaders make this transition?
Mm.
show up for people in their moment?
Mm-hmm.
their moment of struggle, their moment of triumph, their moment of get myself outta my head. How do I help them make that next leadership, step on the rung? So it doesn't have to be as hard as it might have been for me or felt for me sometimes. That's really one of the major motivations to starting, a new gig.
So I'm curious, being on the other side now, being the support system rather than the leader. I mean, you, you lead your organization, right? But it's different.
Sure,
Do you find it challenging to get leaders to lean on you? 'cause I know I do. I know that that's been a challenge over the years.
Yeah. And I resemble that remark, I wanted to do it on my own.
Yeah.
I get it. And, and it was hard. And I guess my premise is it doesn't have to be so hard.
Mm-hmm.
And it's also, I also don't think people need other people to be themselves and to do what they need to do. Folks can get through a lot and figure out a lot on their own. But I don't think it has to be as hard, and I don't think it has to take as long. And so folks that do coaching a hundred percent of the time, they're folks who are ready to be coached and want it. Those are the best relationships you have to be
Mm-hmm.
to open to the idea. I think, we do some coaching, but I think the other lens that we approach it from is really there's a business challenge. And how am I leading through the business challenge? And sometimes that's an oxygen mask thing is somewhere underneath as we're peeling the onion. and sometimes it's, I just took on a new role,
in an organization and I have to figure out the whole leadership team and what's going on with the business and how to talent and who goes where and what, where are we really strong and where do we need to support? And they just need some outside in thinking and someone to check themselves against that isn't in the team.
Mm-hmm. I have a theory, and I think I'm gonna be asking people this for a while. Who would know. My theory is that executives who are the most successful with managing and, not just fundraising, fundraising's a whole other thing. But my theory is that executives who end up being really successful are almost always ones who have some kind of executive coach or support group or support system.
Can you speak to that from your experience?
I think that's true, and I, I think that it's a best kept hidden secret. I think about Tiger Woods or, sports people, Kaitlyn, she misses her three point shot, she doesn't just go out and she might go to the gym and take 300 and find it, but if she can't find it, she goes to her coach
Mm-hmm.
in a specialist that does just this thing and
Mm-hmm.
can never be as good as she is, but he can see what she can't 'cause she's too close to it.
Mm-hmm.
And I think the same is true sometimes for executives and most executives I know don't wanna be, ho-hum. They wanna be great. They wanna be the best, they wanna lead their organization be, on stage to win the awards, to have the best growth
Mm-hmm.
It's sad to me that it's such a barrier to get folks to see that, calling in expertise
Mm-hmm.
isn't about you don't know what to do. It's that no one knows everything and you'll figure it out 'cause you're smart. But you could do it faster and more efficiently by bringing in expertise when the moment is right. And so companies do bring in consultants and coaches. It's not uncommon, it, it does
Mm-hmm.
but it doesn't happen as much as it could. in my experience, to move things more, to make things more smooth and to make things go more quickly. Often by the time someone, especially with newer leaders, someone is ready to bring in some outside in, it's kind of broken and it
like a crisis
Yeah.
and it feels like the, it hit the fan
Mm-hmm.
a crisis.
I think. What I see for more experienced and second, third, fourth time CEOs is that they know they have a coach, or they've had a coach. They have a team around them that they, can call on. They're orchestrating their boards of directors differently to make sure that they have access to the talent and the expertise that they need. I do think it's a competitive advantage, and I think breaking that seal, the first time you go
Yeah.
for expertise or
Mm-hmm.
I think you could benefit from a coach. It's that reaction of, but I,
I'm not good enough without it.
exactly,
Right. Which is a lie.
Which I think is a lie too. I agree.
Yeah. I love that. I love that. First of all, when my hypotheses that is not based on personal experience, just on observation, gets validated, of course, confirmation bias. Yay. But I think you really have the expertise to be able to say that and to know.
To be able to say with, certainty that second, third, fourth time CEOs already know they need this.
Mm-hmm.
And usually because they've effed it up the first time and they waited till there was a crisis. People who've been through a marriage that fell apart and maybe they tried couples counseling, but they didn't go until it was already too late.
In the psychotherapy world, we definitely talk about there being a point of no return. When you're at contempt for each other you're not gonna save that thing. The best you're gonna do is try to find an amicable split.
Yeah.
So if everyone listening to this can hear and understand that receiving mental health support in the form of therapy, or executive coaching or anything like that doesn't mean you're weak.
It actually means you're smart.
Mm-hmm.
That waiting until something really breaks is probably gonna be the most destructive way to do it.
Yeah.
That would be part of my mission.
I mean that dovetails, really nicely with the work that you've done outside of corporate and, it's not like rosy sunshine and like doomed failure. There's a big spectrum
Yeah.
in between, success and well just to have an opposite failure, I don't think anything is failure, but
really is a spectrum and so.
Mm-hmm.
I think, and I say all the time, let's solve these problems and notice them early and often
Yes.
it's so much easier to course correct in a small way than to kind
Mm-hmm.
build over time, which is similar to what you're saying, that point of no return.
Mm-hmm.
and sometimes in business, the point of no return comes and goes and you still have to keep going. You
Yeah.
that rely on you, and with relationships in the organization, I think founders and co-founders and executive team members and, direct report relationships and board relationships. There's so many moving parts and there's so many stakeholders when you're a leader. Single employee, like no one feels the burden of that, like the CEO does or,
Right.
owner. And that is just a weight that no one can really take from you because that is the weight of that position. And that weight usually weighs in on every decision that that person makes all day.
Mm-hmm.
Right. And so I can come alongside as, the HR leader or used to and say I understand. But it's, the buck does not stop with me. So you can be a support internally. You can have a great team, you can be
Mm-hmm.
and even yet, sometimes you're too close to the problem,
Mm-hmm.
right?
To, to see it. And so that outside in, it's not that it's gonna reveal something that you wouldn't have eventually figured out or revealed
Right.
May, maybe,
Yeah.
think usually we have the answers, we just can't get to them. It's that knowing and doing gap that I talk about a lot and sometimes we don't know
we know. And that's a thing. And of course we all get to keep learning, but when you're in the situation, it's hard to be a part of it and see it clearly. it's
We used to refer to that as being on the dance floor and then up on the balcony watching the dance at the same time.
Yep. Yeah.
very hard to do, especially consistently. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And usually when pressure's on or decisions are hard or there's a challenge or a problem, we're not normally at our best at doing that. Some people are great. That's awesome. You know that you can do it is amazing. Not everyone can, not everyone can do it well. And it, it really is. You know, someone said, I have had 175 coffees since November, so I have a lot of anecdotes. But I was talking to someone who's, a really strong, CEO, looking for their next gig. And he's like, why would I work with you, Erin when we think the same way? And I already know what you're doing and I agree with you. And I said, well, you'd work with me right when you wanna move faster.
Mm-hmm.
When you wanna and when you get stuck,
Yeah,
that, that does happen even when you know what you wanna do. We all know the things to do
yeah,
often, I think about, everyone knows how many calories to eat every day, how many minutes to exercise, how many hours to sleep. We know, we
But we don't do it. Yeah.
don't do it
Yeah.
right.
Or we do it for two weeks and then we don't do it again. Right. And so it's that, that's what I
Moving something from an intellectual space to an execution space or to muscle memory or to habit is a totally different thing. Yeah. I make the same points with my clients all the time because they judge themselves sometimes as stupid or whatever. Like, why can't I figure this out?
And I'm like, first of all, let's talk about trauma and the effect of trauma on the brain.
Yeah.
But it, it's also that they don't know how to do that thing, or they don't know how to get on the backside of a thing they can't quite see.
Yeah.
I think it's maybe harder, and I'm curious if you'll agree.
It's maybe harder for people who are at high levels of leadership to be willing to surrender the captaincy, so to speak, of the conversation to somebody who can help them.
Yeah, I think surrender is a word I don't hear very often
Mm-hmm.
corporate land. I do think that there's frameworks. So we call it facilitation. I'd love to come in and help you facilitate a conversation or strategic planning session. There are definitely some mechanisms built around that, where organizations tap into it, but getting that support for the first time, again, it's just breaking the seal. And then when you see the benefit, and feel and experience, having some outside in momentum, some outside in thinking, I think that can be really powerful. And sometimes it's front and center, like a facilitation, and sometimes it's like secret weapon behind the veil.
You're coaching someone behind the scenes and they're feeling a way or have a thing and you're helping them figure out the way to get into the conversation and have the influence and the impact and to get I call anchored in what they know and then how to take that to the team in
Mm-hmm.
be received and have influence and impact that they wanna have as a leader in the organization. It's nuanced and it's different by the person and the organization. But it is with pattern recognition and working with a lot of leaders. know, someone will tell me, here's a story of what's happening and blah, this overwhelm mode. And I listen and, you know,
And you get it right away.
and, and I'll say like, so what
Yeah.
is, or what
Uhhuh.
is.
And,
Yeah.
and that exact that like,
Like,
see
do you what? How do you know that? And you're like, yeah, I've been doing this for a while. Yeah,
And,
I'm the same way.
and that's the moment where it's like, oh, this is the value. Right. Helping people get there and feel seen and kind of name it
Mm-hmm.
and then start to build their plan. And I think I at moments in my career, and I've seen many others be their own worst enemy and get in their own way.
And as a leader, you have to work through that stuff first before you can really step into your full leadership impact.
I totally agree and I'm gonna make the argument that it's uncomfortable, but there is an element of some surrender.
Yeah.
There is some element of surrender, of some component of control to allow somebody else to help you
Yes.
of having to know everything, having to lead everything. In my work, I sometimes have to say to people , you don't need to run this session.
You don't have to come with an agenda. That's my job. You don't have to have the story all, you don't need to give me a presentation, just show up. It's my job to run the session
Yeah.
and to serve you. But yeah, it's a really, it's a balance that a lot of leaders aren't used to being in because.
I think they're performing all the time.
Yep.
So yeah, I think break the seal is a great way to think of it. The first time, I mean, I remember for me, I'm, I'm a fairly self-contained controlling person, and for me the first times, like I saw an energy healer or a massage therapist, anybody who was going to have any way of
exerting some power over my experience
Yep.
was, was rough for me. , My first therapy session, my first supervision was like, you know, but it's a muscle. It's like a, I'm listening to Project Hail Mary right now, so I'm hearing a lot about airlocks. It's kind of like an airlock, you have to go through this process of like, I'm contained and then okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put on this suit and I'm gonna cycle through the levels of pressure and then go into a different environment where I can be safe, but it's going to be in a different way.
Yeah. Yeah. And just that you're okay, and everything's fine
Yeah.
and you, to steal from Brene Brown, the you are enough
Yeah.
and it, and that doesn't mean that every job or every promotion works out all the time. It's not that everything's always going to be perfect and up and to the right, that that's
Mm-hmm.
about.
But it is really about just navigating better and easier and, figuring out your zone, what I call the zone of genius,
Mm-hmm.
What are, it's that special brain and your unique experience and how it all comes together. It is the moments
of, sometimes I get into a spreadsheet, and I'm so excited about what I can figure out when I'm doing, and it's like three hours of past and I'm like,
Yeah.
or a, a jigsaw puzzle, or you're on the phone with a friend and all of a sudden
Mm-hmm.
God, dinner's burned, you know, whatever. Whatever's happening what are those moments that you get lost in the energy? And I think that those, finding those moments and how you do that at work is really interesting. Now it's not all fun and games. If it were, we wouldn't get paid for it. It'd be called a hobby, right?
And so it is about the balance. And having enough energy to really lead is a lot leading yourself, leading your team. All of that really matters. And so figuring out
those zones of genius are for you. What are those
Mm-hmm.
that you're in it and you're doing it and it's working. That's what I find. If you can help, folks find that for themselves, then they start to be able
Mm-hmm.
to sustain.
Yeah.
and plan their days, their weeks, their months, around, oh, strategic planning , is coming this fall. We'll be thinking all about 2026 and I'm a big picture thinker and my very favorite time of the year and August is like everyone's on vacation and I have to account for last year, which is not very exciting for me, but I know. Planning is coming and I can't, you know, so it's seasons,
Yeah. Yeah.
it's tasks, it's, those kinds of things. But if you find yourself every day is the slog and none of it feels like energy and you've not feeling successful, listening to finding that energy and, and following it can be really powerful to get your mojo back.
That is definitely wisdom accumulated from 25 plus years that you have, but you got to that wisdom through some difficult times.
Sure.
Is there a leadership decision or season that really tested you, that you can tell us about?
You know, I think I'll, I'll harken back to landing in that, C-suite table. And it wasn't one moment, it was a series of moments, over time. It was rare air. And there isn't a manual and no one said here's exactly how you do it.
And I didn't have anyone
Confirm or deny that I was doing it the right way. And so those moments are hard, I think. I think the other leadership moments that are obviously really hard are making hiring and firing decision. There's all of these
Mm-hmm.
that come, there's, we're, you know, pivoting the organization. We were focused here, and now we're gonna focus over in this other direction, which means, a lot of movement and change for everybody in the organization. And there's a lot of change management in those kinds of big decisions for organizations.
And you kind of. Have to do it for yourself first.
Mm-hmm.
you know, most leaders are operating from integrity, right? They have a thing that they wanna do and a way
When you say, when you say do it for yourself first, what do you mean? Do what for yourself first.
with it, right? You have to find your integrity
Gotcha. Mm-hmm.
Right. So no one wakes up every morning and says, gosh, I can't wait to do a layoff today. Like, that's
Right?
that people do, or willy-nilly, we're gonna not do this and do this Now. Like
Mm-hmm.
whether folks agree or disagree, right?
There's usually a lot of thought and, purpose behind it. When you find yourself in a room where you agree, it's easier than when you find yourself in a room where you don't, and you almost will never, always agree with everyone all the time.
Mm-hmm.
that as a leader, your job is to, influence decisions and bring your best thinking.
And sometimes it's, disagree to disagree, agree, disagree, and commit. There's all sorts of language around it. But you gotta get good with decisions and moving forward so that you can lead your team and the organization through those changes. And I think I said it before, the mental gymnastics of, I don't wanna do this, or I wish we didn't have to do this, but in the universe that is, we have to make a decision. And this is the
Mm-hmm.
hard decision. And then how do we communicate that in a way and how do we, share that with the rest of the organization so that people can come with us on this journey and understand enough of the decision making. Those are the things that weigh, I think, on leaders a lot in times of challenge, right? When we're growing and everything's great it feels better. So it feels easier. And I think growth is great. Whether you're growing bigger or growing smaller, it's the same amount of work.
It just feels different.
as a leader,
comfortable in the uncomfortable and figuring out how to center yourself in those decisions and be to your organization what they need to see I think is super important.
Yeah, that makes sense. And I think it's good advice. Getting right with what you need to do even if you didn't agree. I think that's a big challenge and it's an invisible cost that a lot of leaders are paying the people don't realize. Which leads us to the private ledger section of this show, which is getting into your balance sheet of burdens.
So we would love to hear one cost you paid for being in leadership. Mm.
Yeah. I think I definitely paid the energy cost.
Mm-hmm.
I, and so much of it in retrospect was self-inflicted.
Okay.
that voice in my mind, not always, but over time it's like, oh, I could have been nicer. Or you could have asked for outside. Soon as you say it out loud, someone's like, no, that's not true. You talk to yourself in a way you would never talk to your friends. And so I definitely, as one thing, be nicer to yourself and, and spend a lot of, a lot of spin, a lot of spin, a lot of energy expension that wasn't necessary is what I, in, in hindsight.
Yeah, a lot of spin meaning kind of like the mental gymnastics or like self recrimination kind of stuff.
Yeah. Just, am I good enough? Am I doing it well? You
Mm-hmm.
me? You know, all
Mm-hmm.
I think can really get, it's really distraction from, from what you wanna be doing, which is your job. And, leading and making improvements and creating great places to work and having success. And, when we get in our heads in a way that isn't helpful, we gotta get out of it so that we can do what we're there to do.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that makes sense. What in your balance sheet of burdens is one invisible asset that you had that you maybe didn't realize at the time?
Yeah, I think there's a resiliency piece that, that most leaders find themselves in. And I don't have any regrets, you know, all decision I, make them again, not make them again. It brought you to where you are today and this is where you're supposed to be. So that's kind of how I operate.
So it's, not a lesson, but, resilience is important and appreciating that outside in thinking, just knowing that. When I convince myself of a thing, I just turn to your neighbor and ask them , do you think this is true? Is a really simple way sometimes, or, a coach or a, family member or somebody that you trust is, , letting someone in a little bit can be super, super powerful and reaffirming.
Um, and just kind of help you move through that. It's like, oh, I'm doing that thing again.
can see I'm doing that thing again. And so there's, self-awareness, resilience, using your resources, those are things that were once invisible, completely invisible, that are definitely now more in the light and yet still need reminders, right?
Um, from time to time that, you're doing the right thing. You understand what you're doing. You got this, Erin.
Nice. And that you, it sounds like you've got support around you.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah. All right. In your private ledger, what is one investment that you're making in yourself for your wellbeing, your soul?
Yeah. I, I think time and space. I talk a lot about the power of pause, and this is new to me. I'm very much kind of Heidi, very control, get it done, have the list, do all the things, be busy all the time. And the shift really is to create space, to think and to notice and, to not fill, have to fill all the gaps is a transition. And a noticing thing that I'm doing about myself that I think is really valuable, in life. Like, oh, I care
Yeah.
this. I don't care about that. Or,
Yeah.
you know, those aha moments come when you create space for them and
Yeah.
things come into your life when you create space for it.
Making rest and open space, a thing that I have to check off my list of things to do was a really big, was a really big transition for me and for some other leaders too. We used
Yeah.
I say Busy's like a badge of honor. Oh,
Yeah.
Busy, right?
Yep.
full calendar meetings all day.
I am so important. All these people need me. And then it maybe isn't the best use of your time. It maybe isn't using your zone of, excellence, zone of genius. so getting out of that. Being busy isn't good or bad, but being busy not at your highest purpose is crazy making so creating room
But if I'm always busy, if I'm always needed, I'll never be alone.
Yeah. Well, and sometimes you're more alone than ever.
Yes, you actually are much more alone. But yeah, that's often what's driving that one is, being needed is a great way to never be abandoned. Right. Uh,
you
like you, what's that? Yeah.
abandon yourself, which is
you're abandoning yourself.
in that empathy world, you give to everybody else and you're last on the list and, and
Mm-hmm.
shows.
Yes, it does. Yeah. You and I obviously are, we could have really deep psychological conversation.
Well, what do you wish, and you've known so many leaders, so I think it's gonna, I'm really interested to hear what you're gonna say to this. What do you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
We should ask an expert,
Mm.
right? And it goes back a little bit to vulnerability. I think it's really hard to say. I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
that's really hard to say. So what are the other ways to say that or,
great.
I'm not sure, or we should ask an expert or who's the expert in this? Who should we be looking to for insight and answers?
Where should we be looking? I think, thinking we have to have all the answers isn't the answer. So
Yeah, that's your, that's your bumper right there. That's the trailer for this show. I love it.
So that's, that's what I wish.
Yeah, I love that. And I agree. I think that, having alternate ways to say things that feel uncomfortable is such a, a, a strong strategy. You don't have to say, I don't know, but saying, who should we ask? Who's the expert in this? Let's find the best people to help us make this decision so much better.
And sometimes the
before.
is in your organization. It's not always outside, right? It could be just outside the leadership team. So I think that that's another, interesting. Sometimes the answers aren't in the room you gotta look outside the room.
I think a lot of times maybe the answers aren't in the room. People are leaders because they're good at making decisions and winning over people who are powerful and , maybe they're good at strategy, maybe they're good at all of the different things that their job entails, but they're probably
not anywhere near the expertise of the engineer on the factory floor or whatever. You can tell I haven't worked in corporate, I'm probably saying that not correctly, but the subject matter experts almost never are in the C-suite.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, before we get to our final question, the time machine question,
Yeah.
know, I would love for you to share with people how they could find you if they want to work with you and your 25 plus years of expertise.
Plus plus, plus plus
Plus, plus, plus, plus plus.
So Webs, we, we have a website, www.NextLevelOrg.net and we are a.net. Erin@nextlevelorg.net gets you directly to me. , Certainly we're on LinkedIn as well. Next level org and also my name Erin Reeves. um, yeah, we'd love, love to hear from you. We're, we're doing free 30 minute consultations right now, so if you wanna connect on the website and get signed up, we can spend a little bit of one-on-one time and figure out if we can't get you on a good path.
So who would know that they're a good client for you? How would they know that?
yeah, I think it's, I think it's leaders usually who are feeling a little stuck. And so either there's, you know, next level org goes, next level org team and you,
Mm.
And so we really think about it in three layers. And often we're helping leaders either help themselves, help their teams, or help their whole organizations. So we're a good fit for you. If you're a leader who's like, I need help with my oxygen mask, like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? I'm stuck. I am in my brain. I need a little bit of outside in thinking to help me move myself.
Hmm.
might be on a team, you might be a leader on a team that's newly forming or run into some bumps in the road and you need some outside in thinking to help navigate and translate and create facilitation and container to solve some of those maybe team level
from an organization perspective, we were talking about before, right? We're gonna do merger and acquisition. We're going to, , do a bunch of hiring or some laying off, or we are going to switch product lines and the whole organizational design needs to look different, and maybe no one does that.
So it is meeting the leader at their moment, and sometimes that moment is themselves. Sometimes it's the team, and sometimes it's the organization.
Nice. So that's at nextlevelorg.net. Great. That'll be in the show notes too. So if you are listening to this, you can always go to the more info in the show and find those links. Okay, so here's our last question. We're gonna open the time machine. Q time machine noise and you're about to step in, you can step in and go to any time.
In your past history, where would you go and what would you say to that earlier version of yourself?
I would say in my, in my mind, it goes back to early Parenthood timeframe for me, which
Hmm.
you know, roughly 15 to 16 years ago, still in corporate, still climbing and doing the things, and what I wished I'd known is that I was gonna be okay.
Hmm.
that everything's gonna be okay, Erin, and yes, you're good and you're fine.
And just keep going and get outta your own head and get out of your own way.
have to do it by yourself, both in the home front and in the work front, the life. I lost my mom around that same time too, so it
Hmm.
I did a lot of that on my own and I didn't have
Yeah.
need to, but I did and I learned a lot. Distraction is really powerful. when you wanna be
Yeah.
from the hard thing can throw yourself into something else and nothing is all good or all bad. And I wished in hindsight I'd had a little bit more balance and asked for help, you know, more personally at that time to help, get through that and, and you never get over it, right.
But you learn to carry it better. I is what I would say.
Yeah, that's very, yeah, profound and supportive advice that I'm sure some of our listeners will also really benefit from. Thank you. Thanks so much for joining me for the show today.
So fun. Rachel. Thank you so much for having me.
📍 Thanks for listening to Lonely At the Top. If today's conversation resonated, I hope you'll give yourself permission to pause even for just a moment and check in with what you might be carrying.
You don't have to hold it all alone. You've carried a lot to get where you are, but you don't have to keep doing it without good support. I work with high level leaders who want to clean up their secret messes, so if you wanna learn more, find me at rachelalexandria.com. If you know another leader who would benefit from hearing this podcast, please send it their way, because, yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way.