Unknown: Good afternoon. Good
morning. Good evening, wherever
you listen to the writing glitch
podcast is great to have you
here today.
I am so excited that we have
puppets here today. And on your
screen, you're going to see
Carol Rhodes and Limaye Smith,
and we are going to talk a
little bit about why they have
puppets and what they're doing
to help kids with their
literacy. Welcome to the
podcast, ladies. Thank you. That
was a tie to and sodas silly
ball. So we have Miss Alice and
silly ball. So Miss Alice is
what he teaches the first sound
the sound is short a, she's a
she. And she says, ah, Phillies
o works with syllable scientist
teach her students about
syllables and how to break words
into syllables that they can
then read based on the patterns
of vowels and consonants.
Fascinating. So Carol, tell me a
little bit about yourself. Who
are you? How did this whole
puppet thing get started? Ellis.
Many decades ago, I started a
tutoring service. And found
through that service that there
were so many people that
couldn't read well. And I ended
up writing my own science of
reading probe program based on
our Gillingham about 30 plus
years ago, and I kept finding
that getting people to use it
with efficacy and consistently
was very difficult and the cost
of training for schools. They
couldn't afford to keep up with
keeping the teachers trained,
they would lose teachers, and
then you had to start over. So I
was driving in my car literally
one day and said, If I could
create a program to train the
teacher, where the parents at
the same time that the kids
learn to read with videos, the
videos are very short, they're
only five to seven minutes long.
They have these puppets,
animation, and children in them.
There are no adults at all in
the videos. It starts with the
sound is short a, you go through
the consonants and short vowels,
get into blends, digraphs, and
so forth. And eventually in
season three, there are 77
episodes over for season, they
get to syllables, and by the
final episode, the students are
dividing the word
antidisestablishmentarianism. To
illustrate that it doesn't
matter how long the word is, if
you understand the process of
how words are broken up into
syllables and the rules to
follow, you can read virtually
anything. Yeah, it's like one of
those Supercalifragilistic
expialidocious words, isn't it?
Well, we thought we probably
could use that it was probably
copyrighted. So we decided to go
with a word that we could use.
Yes, my dad likes that word, by
the way.
You've chosen that any Linux
development piece as well. You
know that the students learn
what that word means and sort of
where it comes from. We get a
mini history lesson in there if
the kids are interested.
A little bit of us in world
history all in one, you know,
yeah. And then season four Miss
Perfect. And the winner of the
the wise owl talk in this
perfect tells the children that
the system is just perfect. But
the nerve of the wise owl
explains that there's going to
be some words, some pieces in
the words that aren't going to
fit perfectly and that's okay.
They can use context clues. They
can use a dictionary spellcheck
to reassure the kid that nothing
is perfect. And it's okay if
there's a teacher that doesn't
fit. It's okay to not know the
answer kids. Yeah, absolutely.
We all make mistakes, and we
learn from them. And so what's
the name of this program?
Richards learning systems is the
organization and family and the
magical reading chest is the all
Graham's name for the 77
episodes. This is Chef cookie,
and gets cookie teaching blend.
And she has a whisk that she
uses in the episode. And a B and
R go into the ball through
animation. She says it around an
hour pops VR, so that they learn
about lens. And this is Sophie
who teaches non phonetic words
because there are some words
that we just can't read. We call
them read words. And those words
we use ARM tapping so that
they're saying the letter names
instead of sounding out
Because so will that be like the
word the? Yes, T H, E, the. And
that's actually the first non
phonetic word that we introduced
first read word, there are only
eight words that they have to
learn through arm tapping in the
first 20 episodes. And that's
very deliberate. I always get
really upset with the high
frequency words, that it
confuses students between really
knowing what do I have to sound
out? Or what do I have to know
how to spell and read on site?
And what can I sound out,
because when you're five years
old, you can't discriminate
that. And by introducing 100
words in kindergarten that I
have to memorize so many of them
are their decodable words. So
now it feels like I have to
memorize everything, because I
can't tell the difference. So
that's the one that always gets
me they have to memorize so many
words so quickly. There are only
100 words in the force, even
that they have to memorize read
words, there's a few that we
miss, but by the time they
finish the course see, then
they're pretty confident and
it's not so important. I plan on
writing and advanced spelling
book for the kids that are
really more advanced and are
curious about the ins and outs
of the very complicated
spelling's in English. But I
have really simplified this down
to the bare bones so that the
kids can read and spell. For
example, the word xylophone. As
I was researching x as the
sound, it's really the only word
in addition to a lot of
pharmaceutical terms that most
people don't need to know. So
why are we going to worry about
that one, on this perfect?
Wait till they're in third
grade, and they want to take the
xylophone in band. And that's a
purposeful reason to learn it.
Yes, exactly. And they should be
confident enough by that age to
be able to accept that
exception. So we talked a little
bit about you, Carol, what about
a heel and a how do you fit into
this picture? Well, I am Carol's
Daughter. So I grew up in the
business learning all along. I
was a struggling higher level
decoder in seventh grade and
went through the written version
of the program that we've used
with older learners because I
couldn't divide those big
scientific terms. When I got to
middle school. Even though I was
a student, you know, I was a
strong student, and then my
comprehensive and started to
take a hit fast forward. I got a
degree in technical theater, and
went and worked for a Broadway
theater and producing family in
New York for about 16 years.
COVID brought me back home with
shutdown of Broadway and the
indefinite return, right after
she had filmed the first season
of Sandman in the magical
breeding chest, and was working
on figuring out how to get the
next three seasons written and
produced. So the timing felt
kind of fortuitous that I got to
be here and help give some
creative input. But it really is
her baby. I mean, I can't take
credit, I can take credit for
filling for silly vaults, and
Minerva. But otherwise, you
know, these characters are her
brainchild, Miss Alice, and the
other short vowel puppets have
been around for 30 years. They
were sock puppets originally.
And then they amazingly, were
transformed into these wonderful
puppets by Lindsey Stanley, who
voices all of the puppets with
the exception of a few. Yeah,
Kyle Kyle's family, her husband,
who is her husband, and was the
director of the Sammy series
voices, the other characters, so
we have to give credit to them
for their incredible work. So
you don't voice any of them? No,
we went and we're consulting to
make sure they were saying the
sounds correctly. And if there
were details that needed to be
altered, I wrote the scripts,
and then they kind of predict
them up a little for their
needs. And we filmed over three
summers, we finished the final
17 episodes in summer and
they're still in production. So
Season Four isn't out yet. But
season three is so now we're 59
episodes. If you go to the
website, Richard's learning
systems, plural Richards is
plural learning is singular and
systems is plural, returns
learning systems.com that will
take them to our website and
then they can subscribe to the
annual seasons you purchase the
subscription for one year gives
you access to one season, which
works out to about 20 episodes
later seasons are a few fewer
they get all the multi sensory
materials that are modeled in
the videos. They get their belt
boards, from the letter cards
with a green go dot, they get
their magic boards, a workbook
and and they get a Sammy book
bag to keep all ours
materials, and they get the
short vowel puppets, not this
version, but they get these
really soft, short vowel puppets
and hand puppets for the
students to use at home to
reinforce those sounds and
skills. I love it. So we met at
the International Dyslexia
Association conference back in
October. And at the time, I kept
kidding you about using your
thumb. I know that I know. And
so far, it is very hard. And I
don't know that today I could
even do my thumb through or
really given me some issues. But
so the reason I bring that up is
because I wanted to share a
little bit of about why I know
that why was kidding you about
that. And that is because my son
and his best friend in high
school, were puppeteer. They
actually wrote a program and
they presented it at fourth and
Penn, which is in Redding,
Pennsylvania is like downtown
center square kind of area. It
was every Friday, I guess over
the summer, they would have the
farmers markets, so had to have
all of these vendors show up
during lunchtime, and then
disperse after lunch. And one of
the girls that was helping them
was unable to attend. And Mom,
can you do this?
Oh, totally. Of my hand was
going like this that go the
puppets were talking up in the
air and said it to the kids. I
was having such a struggle. But
the technology that they were
using behind the curtain was
blowing my mind. They had iPads
that that they had the scripts
on, and they really went all out
for these kids. Yeah, so one
day, I got to learn a lot about
puppetry. And my son started
repairing puppets.
So you guys have you right now
you have one up that has a
little mustache, he figured out
and learn how to stitch it and
put the mustache back on, and
things like that. So that's the
background and why I knew a
little bit about puppetry. So I
just wanted to interject that so
that the listeners have an idea
of the connection. And how we
met and why I love puppets and
and how they help kids with
learning. Some of the scripts
that they were writing were more
biblical. They were writing
Bible stories a lot. So they did
a lot in churches, too. So who
is this guy that just showed up
on the screen? This is consonant
man. And he dresses in a
different outfit for each
consonant.
And that is zookeeper in this
particular outfit. For Z. That's
D. Yes. Okay. Zookeeper pays her
baseball player, a mailman. He's
a swami with a friendly snake.
He's a football player. He's a
rock star. He has wacky, a guard
dog whistle that says wha? So
he's a different consonant. For
each consonant. He has a
different costume, instead of
having different ones. Love it.
Love it. And who's pairing
between you? He's waving. He's
got he's got Yeah, you're as
you're working for for this nice
professor on your wood.
Professor See, St. Louis was
working on graduation.
You know, what we've been
finding is that older students
are enjoying this too. We talked
to a group of refugee immigrants
organization that was interested
in using it with their adults,
we have some high school
students that are doing it on
their own. I have an eighth
grader and who was here last
week and back again yesterday
meeting with a possible tutor.
And I said, I won't be offended
if you don't want to use the
puppets. He said, No, I love
puppets. I love the Muppets. I
want to do this one. So you
know, 13 years old, when we
typically see the students are a
little more hesitant about what
they're willing to engage with.
He was all in and be most of the
syllable pieces in in Episode
41. There's a review of all the
sounds, and then we move into
syllables. So if you have an
older student, they can start
with season three, and moves
through the syllables to learn
it, which is what we did was
adults. We went into companies
for about 10 years and taught
workers how to read. That's
amazing. That's amazing. So I
actually took the sock puppets
into the company and stood in
front of 10 knots or shop
workers with the union steward
in the class and said, don't
laugh at me, but you'll never
forget me with this stupid sock
on my hand. And the last time I
went in as a troubleshooter for
The class he said, Are you going
to show me show us the rest of
the puppets before you leave? So
it's the way you approach it.
Yeah. So my son's friend, now
graduated with a music degree.
And he just got a job at a
middle school. And I was asking
him, and they were he was going
to introduce puppets. He's like,
let me get my feet wet first.
But I think that is part of his
plan. So he will be sharing that
with middle schoolers in my
area. Now you guys are from
Ohio. Am I correct? Yeah,
correct. Yes, I have to sort of
point out we do have Maestro
here. So talk about here. Here's
Maestro with this little space,
dancing, contraction,
dancing contractions. And I have
fingerspelling hands here. So
when they're learning to blend
sounds together to make words,
so we have x. And so do the
letters like Velcro on and off
that you can change letters.
Yeah, this little dots to get
them on and, and then we have
you know, some words that have a
blend. So it's a single finger
to a single consonant blend, or
mix that's there together. Just
like when chef cookies stir stir
in the ball, you stir your
finger to remind you it's
interesting. And you're getting
people to read no matter what
age they are, how are you
incorporating writing skills
into your program? Well, in the
workbooks there is tracing
practice. So then initially,
they're tracing the letter
names, and saying the sound as
they trace it, and they're
facing words. And in the books,
there are what I call Starburst,
that remind the teachers to have
the students white on their
fellow boards in the sky like
jet pilots die writes with the
kids or fingerspell. The, the
words, there's lots of spelling
practice within the episodes,
encouraging the kids to not read
only, but also white, what
they're, they're learning. And
then there are also some
sentence frames start with a
capital letter, and with a
punctuation mark, at the bottom
of some of the practice pages.
So we're starting to very gently
introduce the idea of a subject
and a predicate, and building
sentences with the words that
they're learning. I also want to
just sort of mention everything
in the workbooks following
science of reading is controlled
vocabulary. So the students are
only being presented with
concepts that have been
introduced directly through the
concepts. In the back of the
workbooks, there's a list of all
of the words that are introduced
by concept where the teacher or
the parent to be able to go back
and reference to give those
students additional practice.
And there's lots of games in the
workbooks to encourage the kids
to have fun when they're
learning the skills. And there's
a list of all the games. So if
the parent wants the kid to do a
game, or the child wants to do a
game over and over again, that
tells them where they are,
instead of having to flip
through the book, whatever part
of writing that you can work on,
because it all goes together.
The dysgraphia is really that
higher level writing skill of
being able to put things
together. It's not just letters,
right, and we start with those
bumpy letter cards and the felt
boards. So that they're, they're
getting that sensory input as
they're forming the letters.
They're saying the letter sounds
when they form them. So they're
getting that dual input. But in
episode two, they're already
writing the word app. So they're
immediately spelling words, as
they get sounds, the app and
then sat, and then Matt and Tam,
and some of the words are going
to be unfamiliar to them. And
they're either explained in the
videos, or at the bottom of
workbook pages, the teacher
notes, the game to teaspoon
destination, simple destination
that the child is part of the
kids are curious about what the
word means they don't have to
go. That word means it's given
to them. There is no Teacher's
Guide at all. All the notes and
information are at the bottom of
workbook pages for the teacher.
In season four, it says either
to the teacher or to the
student, because by then the
students are reading well enough
to be able to read it to love
it. I love this program. How do
they find out about it? You had
talked about the learning
systems? That's the.com, right?
Yes, yeah. Richards learning
systems.com. There's a phone
number on there. If they want to
contact us. There's an email
link. They can they can email
us. They can register directly
through the site and purchase a
subscription. You know if
there's a teacher out there, who
wants it for their classroom, we
can customize quotes for school
districts, but it's very
affordable after the first year
Investing in the materials. The
renewal is just the cost for the
subscription and the next series
of workbooks. So the classrooms
that are using it year after
year, they just need to replace
the workbooks. Everything else
is reusable. Okay, I just want
to sort of very directly say,
Carol has made such deliberate
choices, not only in the
creation and design of the
program, but in the way that
it's available and usable for
teachers in classrooms. And to
create simplicity for the user,
at home or in school, we really
encourage teachers to spend only
15 minutes a day with it. That's
it. It doesn't need to be 45
minutes a day, so that they
should be able to find 16
minutes, one of our teachers was
frustrated because of we have
found 10 schools in Cleveland,
the Cleveland Metropolitan
schools using it right now. And
she was really struggling to
figure it out. And she's doing
it during her bell time. So 15
minutes isn't very much. Now, we
have a researcher doing a study
of our students with the program
in Cleveland, and he's an early
literacy specialist researcher,
your book Brooklyn College, and
he confirms Yes, 15 minutes a
day is all we need for this
program to be effective. He was
the former student and did
research with Dr. Linnea airy
who's a nationally known
literacy expert, he actually
connected us to mark Otterbox,
our research, I love it, is
there anything else that you'd
like to share? Before we head
off to here today, I think
that's I think we've covered the
bulk of it, you know, it's just
go to Richard's learning
systems.com and learn more about
it. There are three episodes
that you can watch on the on the
website so that for each season
that's available, there's
there's video that they can see
a complete episode and how it
works. I love it. Oh, I guess I
want to point out or mention one
other thing. Um, so we've talked
a lot about sort of the
different people who can use
this program, and we didn't
touch on the nonverbal students
who are using it and finding
success with it. I have two
examples. One I had a nonverbal
autistic young young man come
in, could not sit at the table
for a minute, couldn't put two
words together. Fast forward two
years, he's been working
intensively with a tutor through
our tutoring company, which is
separate but adjacent to
Richard's learning systems. He
comes in, he's reading every
word on the page, asking to see
the puppets, wants to talk about
the different characters and
sits and is engaged in a meeting
with us for two hours. This, I
mean, just the transformation.
We have some students in a self
contained classroom nonverbal,
who had been working with the
same teacher, it was about a
year and a half in that she was
able to record one of them
reading a three letter word. And
they're able to identify the
letter sounds and letter names,
both upper and lowercase letters
and 20. letter sounds, now took
two years for these very low
functioning kids. But at the end
of the second year, some of them
are reading three to five words.
That's a miracle. That's just a
miracle. Congratulate also
didn't mention a lot of
teachers, I know the standard
say that they need to introduce
uppercase letters, our program
doesn't focus on that. And I
know as an occupational
therapist, you do uppercase
letters, we put much less focus
on that. We do have some bumpy
letter cards. Family really
wants those. But we find that
they learn to write and read
those, regardless of having that
extra time spent on it. And the
focus was really on the sounds
of the letters, not the letter
names. And so if you have too
many cards and too many things
you're losing the focus of if
you're reading the words that
it's at that sa t it's really
important that they learn to
process the sounds together, not
the letter names, because you
don't read the letter name on a
story believed in that makes
sense. And I'm not saying that
capital letters are though is
the way to start. Sometimes the
lowercase is a better place to
start depends on the on the
student. As a matter of fact,
most cursive programs start out
with lowercase letters. Right?
And I know there's some students
who definitely learn better with
cursive. We have cursive bumpy
letter cards too. So yes, for
some of those kids who really do
struggle with the hand strength
to be able to pick up the
pencil. We even have denarian
printed letters we have a
variety of different puppy
letter cards. And on the backs
of the letter cards we have how
you perform your mouse when
you're producing the sound and
pictures of the puppet with the
the hand to use for the short
balls and sign sign cues on the
On the back as well. So if the
students don't learn
how to have everything we tried,
we tried. We hadn't. We had an
autistic hearing impaired
student, and we added the sign
language for that person. So
each time we find something
that's missing, we try and
incorporate that into what we
do. And over 30 plus years, we
figured out a lot of things that
needed to be incorporated.
I'm sure you have, I'm sure you
have.
This has been the writing
glitch. And I've been here with
Carol
and Renee Smith, and they are
part of Richard's learning
systems. The writing glitch is
published the second and fourth
Tuesday of every month. Make
sure that you click subscribe,
and let us know what you thought
of this episode. Would you like
to learn more about puppetry or
more about her system? Let us
know write us a review so that
we can learn how these episodes
are impacting you. And I want to
say thank you to CMC productions
for post production of this
podcast. This has been cheri
Dotterer, signing off from the
writing glitch, and thank you
for being here today. The name
Carol, thank you for having us.
Thank you so much for having us.
