Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
This podcast and community breaks the silence, shame, and fear that often surrounds sexuality, unwanted pornography use, and betrayal trauma and helps you embrace your God-given sexuality with courage compassion and connection. People just like you share their stories of recovery and forgiveness and experts teach principles, share insights, and provide real tools to help you rebuild trust and develop healthy sexuality. Ask your questions anonymously and expert therapist, Rachel Denton, will answer them and discuss practical tools to help and gain insight as to how ecclesiastical leaders can play an effective and powerful role in your healing. Join Crishelle Simons as she breaks the silence and together we can create a culture of courage, compassion, and connection.
This podcast is brought to you by Reach 10. Reach 10 is a non-profit with a mission to educate and help young adults overcome the effects of pornography and betrayal trauma and create healthy relationships with themselves and others.
Join the community at @breakingthesilence_reach10 or visit reach10.org.
We share these views to open the dialogue and educate on these tough issues and to create a healthier culture of sexuality. The opinions and views shared by the host or guests do not constitute as professional advice or services and do not necessarily reflect the views of Reach 10, and we don't guarantee the accuracy of any statements you hear. Reach 10 is not responsible for your use of information heard in this podcast. We keep learning, and invite you to join us as we build a more open, compassionate, and courageous culture.
BTS 2.9 Ask a Therapist Series: Should I Stay or Should I Go?
===
Crishelle: [00:00:00] Welcome to breaking the silence today. We are with Rachel Denton and we are going to be answering a question in our ask a therapist series. Today we're going to be answering a question about dating and how to know If you should move forward in a relationship when pornography is part of the equation.
We're going to get more into that question in a moment. But first I want to point you to two resources that you should just know about. The first is our form for submitting any questions for our Ask a Therapist series to give any feedback or comments or to share your story. We love hearing your stories and then if you would like to ever share your story, you can submit.
That on there or reach out to me via Instagram. And we want to hear your stories. We want to share your stories and people just benefit from your stories. The other resource that I want to share with you today is our friends over at Relay.
If you are listening to [00:01:00] this, you or someone that you know has struggled with pornography and Relay is for you. It is a group based recovery app. Developed by my friend Chandler, who had struggled with pornography for years on his own and finally found the courage to reach out to a group. And so he created this app so that you have access to a group, a community to help you in your recovery efforts all the time. On your phone. And so with the link in our show notes, you can have a free trial to find the help and support that you need right now. With that, we're going to jump in. Rachel, go ahead and say hi to our listeners. Maybe take a second to just introduce yourself to anyone new joining us.
Rachel: Sure. So my name is Rachel Denton and I am a licensed clinical social worker. I currently have a private practice where I work with clients one on [00:02:00] one and also couples. And I really am enjoying that work. It's working really well for me right now. And the past though, I've worked at different agencies that primarily worked with pornography issues or any sort of sexual addiction issues.
And I, I really learned a lot and grew a lot there. And then I also worked for a couple of years with fight the new drug and they're just absolutely amazing and awesome, awesome people over there. So yeah, that's, that's what I do.
Crishelle: Rachel, you're just so great. So thrilled to have you on and I love recording with you because you have so much incredible wisdom, especially in this topic and today we're going to be talking about something that we've touched on in the past We've talked about like talking about pornography and dating one of our episodes was I'm struggling with pornography.
Should I even consider dating? Which was a great episode. Like way back in our archives, but today we're going to be talking about kind of digging a little bit deeper. And here's the question that was submitted. It said, if you're dating [00:03:00] someone that is currently struggling with pornography and is Taking the steps to recover, is there hope?
Should I stay in the relationship? Should I run? If we were to get married, is this something that can be overcome, or will I have to deal with this in the future forever? Okay, I know there were like five questions in there, and we will unpack that, don't worry. But I really love this question because, first of all, it's a very honest and real question.
So, thank you so much for submitting your honest and real questions. Because... When you ask honest questions, I feel like when you come from that vulnerable place where you're asking honest questions, that's when you can start really unpacking and uncovering good truth that may be hard, but will provide incredible growth for you and your partner.
So bless you. And again, that's why we have this series, so that we can do this. [00:04:00] So, let's start with the first question. Is there hope when dating someone who's struggling with pornography? And I think that this question could go for both, the person dating someone struggling with pornography and the person Who's struggling with pornography, dating someone.
What do you think, Rachel?
Rachel: Hmm. Yeah. This is, this is a great question. And I think one that a lot of people have with that, with this first part of the question that's asking you know, this person I really like is, I see them working hard and doing the things that they should be doing to work towards recovery. But is there hope?
And, and I, I'm assuming this question is asking, is there hope that this. Is something, well actually I don't know, like I, I guess they could be asking is this something that won't be part of our relationship? Is there hope for that? Or is there hope that we will figure out how to navigate this together?
I, I think when [00:05:00] we're looking at it, is there hope? Absolutely. I mean, is there, is there hope that this will have a very positive outcome, whether it's, you know, in the long term relationship or if it leads to marriage? Absolutely. I think that pornography often is, if you, if really used it correctly or used as an opportunity for growth.
I think it can lead to tremendous amount of, of growth and change for both individual people, but also for them as a couple. So I would, I would definitely say there, there is a lot of hope.
Crishelle: I love that. And as you were, as you were just describing that, I thought to myself, you know, I think there's so much hope because A, you're talking about it.
Rachel: Right.
Crishelle: think a lot of our parents generation got blindsided by pornography because it wasn't talked about, or if it was talked about, it was a one question, maybe, and then it was discovered later.
And so I think. I think there's [00:06:00] so much hope because you're having these conversations now. And it sounds like, based on this, it sounds like it wasn't just like a one time conversation. It's like he and you, or vice versa, she and you, like you are. You're both being honest, hopefully, right? And I don't know, because I wasn't there in the conversations, but hopefully there's a level of honesty.
And you're seeing growth in each other through this. That, that gives me a lot of hope. Whereas if it was just someone like, Oh yeah, I've struggled with that in the past, but it's no big deal. I'm not struggling with it now. Like, and they just like brushed it off. It would be a little bit more of like a yellow, orange, maybe...
Red flag, depending on, depending on the situation. But whereas it sounds like there may be more honest discussions and like continual discussions and growth and that, that [00:07:00] gives me more hope for, for this. Am I wrong there? Am I, am
Rachel: I, yeah, absolutely.
Crishelle: guessing here because we don't know everything, but
Rachel: Sure. Yeah. And I think that when I think that when we have two people that have had conversations and dialogues about this, there are already leaps and bounds ahead of where someone may be, like you said, that has never necessarily be. Talked about it in the relationship before. So I think you're reading this correctly where they're saying This is something that we are continuously talking about and my assumption is it's something that they both have decided They don't want the relationship that they both feel That you know that this isn't the type of relationship They want to have or someone is struggling with or like either of them are struggling with pornography.
So Yeah, it's interesting. Oh, go
Crishelle: well, I think that that's an important thing. I was just reading, I think it was like on a Facebook thing or maybe it was an Instagram story. I don't even remember where, but [00:08:00] I was just reading about a woman who was sharing that her husband is masturbating and continues to masturbate and she doesn't think that they should, but he thinks that they should.
And I'm not like, we're not talking about that discussion right now. But I wanted to bring that up because I think that in the dating relationship and in this, in this like beauty, if you can come to agreement before you even get married, that's going to be really helpful as far as what you are okay with in your relationship and what you're not okay with when there's less commitment.
Right? Because if you were to be married like this other couple, that's going to be really hard to reconcile if he's like, yeah, I'm totally good with masturbating in marriage. And the other one's like, no, I'm actually not okay with that. Like that's going to be hard to reconcile and a point of conflict.
Until that gets resolved, whereas in this dating relationship, as you're having these conversations of, like, what are we okay with? Are we [00:09:00] okay with pornography? Are we okay with masturbating in a relationship? Like, that, that's a really good thing to find out
Rachel: Absolutely.
Crishelle: like, have common beliefs moving forward.
Rachel: Because also what that does is A, like you said, it lets you figure out or decide 1. How do I feel about this issue? And really dive deep on like why do I feel that way and allowing both people to do that and then coming together to talk about what their findings were. And if they are both on the same page, then talking about, okay, well, what do we want this to look like in our relationship?
Like how, how can we be a team and a unit on this particular idea or topic? And then you maybe let someone does soul searching on the other hand and feels like, you know, I, I'm okay with this. So I. Think it's not really impacting me. I'm okay with being part of my relationship, then it's really important that that, that that is talked about.
Crishelle: Yeah, and, well, I think what's beautiful about [00:10:00] having these conversations in the dating relationship is then you can be like, Am I good moving forward and committing further in this relationship knowing this about you? Or you can really choose. As opposed to, like, in five years, you realize, and you're just barely having the conversation, you've been married for four years now, and you've got a kid, maybe a kid on the way, and you're like, wait, what?
Rachel: right,
Crishelle: We don't agree? I've been assuming for the last five years of our relationship that we agreed on this. And, and so... Which, again, that's not the end of the world if that's where you're at. But I'm just saying, if we're stepping back into that, dating is such a beautiful and helpful thing to get, to make sure you are on the same team and that you are moving forward, fully knowing what the other person thinks and feels and believes.
And of course, like, people can change. So please keep having these conversations. But I, [00:11:00] yeah, I, I think that that, that alone, the fact that you're talking about it now, the fact that Yeah, you have the opportunity to really discover what the other person believes about sexuality and and the different things there.
Their belief system around sexuality is so, so beneficial and, and helpful moving forward.
Rachel: Yeah. And, you know, it's, it, looking at this question and looking, like, moving on to second parts of the question, which is basically this person's asking, should I stay or should I go? You know, if this is something this person's struggling with, I think that all of these questions aren't. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say, Oh, I would say that they're good questions to have, but I would also say there are better questions to be asking, which is not necessarily, is this person struggling with pornography or is this not, but go delving more into, is this person trustworthy?
And [00:12:00] do I, do I trust that if this person did anything that breached our contract or our agreement, whether that's pornography or like, like anything you both decide together, do I, do I trust that this person is then going to be honest with me and And share this with me. I think that is a much, much more important question to ask than is this person looking at pornography or is this person not?
There, I've worked with a lot of people who have been on the the other end of a pornography relationship and this idea of feeling betrayed in the relationship or feeling lied to is, It's almost always more painful and more difficult to recover from than the pornography itself. And so that will be, yeah, like I said, that would be much more aligned with the questions I would be asking.
Crishelle: Yeah, and I feel like the question, like asking, like, can I trust this person and asking [00:13:00] more maybe these like quality, like who this person really
is, is really beneficial because I feel like I'm trying to think of how to, how I want to say this exactly, but often we we learn to cope with things that happen in our lives and not great ways.
And then we find ourselves as young adults and we're like, Whoa,
Rachel: Hmm.
Crishelle: not great,
Rachel: Right.
Crishelle: not great, you know, and I, and, and so, but to judge someone just being like, oh, you struggle with pornography, we're done. And that, that being the judge, like if you don't, if you haven't taken the time to maybe like totally understand or to see this person and maybe who they are, who they're becoming, maybe even why they turn to pornography.
What initially , and you don't need to know everything, but as you, as you come to really know and understand them and allow [00:14:00] them to know and understand you, then you're going to be able to make that choice, not On just like per on a surface level action as opposed to who they really are. I hope that was I feel like I did not do that justice but I, I just, I think, I think that pornography gives us a re Okay, I'm gonna say this and hopefully it comes out right.
I think that the trial of pornography can either turn us to God or not. And, and what you're really looking for, I mean, hopefully, I don't know everything about you. What I was looking for when I was dating someone was, was someone who wasn't perfect because I finally came to terms with the reality that that probably actually wasn't going to happen.
But rather someone whose experiences in life had turned them to God [00:15:00] and made them more trustworthy and more humble and more meek and not perfect. But headed in that direction and and and because that's what my experiences had done for me, right? And what I hope continue to do for me and and that's what I was really looking for and and had I just been like Like, oh, you've, you've struggled with pornography, run.
Like, that would have stopped me from really connecting with incredible people.
Rachel: Hmm. Absolutely. I like what you said about looking at what are the, the character traits or the values that this person has rather than what's their way of coping. And you know, I, I understand that pornography is not ideal for anyone as their way of coping. I mean, that is, I would agree with anyone who, who said that.
But Absolutely. What is so much more important is, yeah, it's just [00:16:00] like, what is this person's relationship to this issue? And do I feel that this person's just in recovery because they want to please me or because they're afraid of what their ecclesiastical leader is going to say or their parents? Do I feel that this person is a little conniving around this or maybe hiding things or like hiding things from you for what, for any reason.
Do I feel this person's really anxious about this and feels a lot of shame and that's getting wrapped up in the way that they are experiencing this. Do I, do I think that this person like if no one else existed on this planet, And it was just this person. Would they still want to change? So I, I
Crishelle: That's a beautiful question. I love that.
Rachel: well, I, so I, because I think that those are things to be scanning for because then it gives us, that's the data [00:17:00] that whether it's pornography or if it's something else, this person's struggling with.
You can then walk into the relationship with confidence that like this person's obviously not going to be perfect. And I also believe and trust that they will be honest with me. That they they, I think he used the word humble. They are humble in as they're working through this that there's, I can see their relationship with Christ growing or, you know, just, just questions like that will be really helpful.
I think what also is really important to ask is do I, you know, along with lines, do I trust this person? Is this person trustworthy? It's also, do I trust myself to be able to track if something is not going? How I think it is, like, or how it should be going. So, I think this is a really important question to ask because a lot of times, especially if someone's not being honest or is trying to hide things, what is the most damaging [00:18:00] is the betrayal from this person, but I would also say the betrayal of self, where it felt like I don't know if I can trust myself, you know, I didn't pick up on this sooner or I ignored the signs and of, of untrustworthiness in this and. So what does that mean about me? So I think that, that looking at that betrayal between the person and the other person who's using pornography is really important, but really looking at the betrayal of self. And so that would be the second half of the question or second half of how I answer this question, which is, I like, do I trust myself?
Do I trust myself to be able to track and to be able to see clearly? And. If I do, then I feel fairly confident moving forward that even if this person now is not trustworthy, I do trust myself. And that is, that is equally as important.
Crishelle: I really, wow, I love this so much, probably because, like, [00:19:00] I experienced quite a bit of betrayal trauma from my family of origin and then from a relationship that I was in. As my family, as, as my dad's disclosure came out and, and that really is what was so damaging for me is what you just highlighted is that I was like, I can't trust myself
Rachel: Mm hmm.
Crishelle: and like I allowed myself to get so hurt and and what helped me heal was coming back to and, and committing to always.
Always trusting myself, always act, always showing up authentically in relationships as an And honestly, in relationships, and that took a lot of work, a lot of work, and I really hope that people can figure that out, and I know you can, without the hurt that had to happen for me to figure out how to do that.
But I oh, it is so worth doing the work though, because when you can authentically [00:20:00] show up and trust yourself, and, and know who you are, and own who you are, and own your reactions, and own your experience. Oh my goodness. Like the, the richness that is on that side and that is in that kind of relationship is so beautiful and worth it because you're not trying to prove or put on a show, but you're rather just showing up as you are and, and moving forward, trusting yourself.
And I, I. I I love that you went there because I also think that these questions that you're asking yourself like the deeper questions of like, who is this person? Who are they? Like outside of just like the pornography, right? Like, okay, he views pornography, but who is he or who is she? I hope you're also asking that about yourself.
Like, who are you? Like, where are you headed? What, what struggles maybe keep you from heading that direction, right? Because if it's not pornography, I promise it's [00:21:00] something else. Like, we all have we all have things. And I again, I'm not trying to minimize pornography. Pornography, in my opinion, it's my opinion is the worst.
Like, not like the worst, but there's probably worse things. But it's just, it's evil. It's, it's vile. It's not It's not great. So I'm not trying to give people like, yeah, pornography is fine. No, that's not the message I'm trying to say. What I am trying to say is that
and, and what it was talked about when I was working in addiction recovery is that we all have a DOC just because yours isn't cocaine. What's yours, you know, like, or alcohol or whatever. Like, what is your DOC? And that is like such a question. Like, what is your drug of choice? What is, what is your thing that you need to be working on right now too?
Right. Cause I promise there's something always
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. And I think along with what you're saying of doing the work, I think when there's pornography in the relationship, there's also a really rich [00:22:00] opportunity for growth because A common dynamic that I see is that there is someone who's struggling with pornography and then there's someone who's not.
And the person who's not generally is, it can like really easily switch this into this dynamic where this person who's not struggling with it or with pornography is like, honestly, I can never, like, how do I say it? It's almost like they're on there now, on top where they're , I really , I have stuff.
Yeah, but it's not nearly as bad as this. And so you are constantly less than me to some extent. And I have the power here, buddy. Because I am not the sinful one. You are. And that this person who's struggling with pornography is in this space of, it's like a one down position almost, where it's not this place where [00:23:00] both people can show up and make requests and set boundaries with each other.
It becomes this dynamic of, I, the person who's not struggling, can set all the boundaries. You have to do what I say, because you're the one that betrayed me, or you're the one that's doing this thing we agreed we wouldn't do. And therefore, I don't have to grow up. Like, I don't, I don't have to look at myself.
You need to look at yourself. You need to change. So, I think with, with this self growth, and especially this person who's trying to decide, should I stay in this relationship or should I not? That would be a question I'd ask myself, is like, hmm, is there this dynamic in our relationship where I'm kind of a one up, in a one up position, where I am the one that's...
Setting the ground rules and this person has to do what I say in order for me to feel safe. I would ask, is there room for two people in here in this relationship? Can he or she be here and tell me, like, I did not like it how you shut [00:24:00] down towards me for a week after I told you about my last pornography relapse.
Like, I just, that's not working for me. So can we talk about something different? Like, I, that is so important for the, for a successful relationship. For both, for there to be space for both people.
Crishelle: beautifully said. And I love, love, love, and want to repeat a million and a half times that if there is pornography in a relationship , that really is just an opportunity for both of you to grow and can be a really beautiful opportunity for both of you to grow. Doesn't mean that it always is.
Definitely not. There's definitely times where yeah, you should run. Run for the hills and don't look back. And there are other times where you shouldn't, you should stay and you should see it through. And just because you choose to stay today doesn't mean you have to stay in the future.
Rachel: Right. Yeah.
Crishelle: But if you will both do the work, and I love what you said about being equal partners.
Like, no matter what either of you are struggling [00:25:00] with, there has to be room for both of you. For, for you to be equal partners. Oh, man. Amen to that. Oh, I love that so much because, because if there ever is that power dynamic oh, that is... So halting for everyone's growth and so ouchy for everyone, really, even if you think you're the one who's up.
Like, that's really gonna suck
Rachel: Yeah.
Crishelle: the long term, even short term, it's not
Rachel: Right.
Crishelle: So beautifully said. Okay, this last, this last little bit, I really like this question and I think we've talked about it in the past a little bit, but again, I think this is a good question and maybe we'll even get a little bit deeper on like, maybe what's a.
Rachel: Yeah.
Crishelle: And that is, if we were to get married, so if I was to commit to this person, is this something that can be overcome or will I have to deal with this in the future forever? And I think we've touched on this a little [00:26:00] bit with some of the things we've said. What, what more do you have? I
Rachel: Yeah,
Crishelle: more.
Rachel: well. Let me gather my thoughts here because I think can it be overcome? I think this person's asking is, is it possible for this person to stop? And like, honestly, that's tough to answer because I don't know this particular person. Can people eventually just stop? Yeah. I mean, I think that all behavior can change and If, if that's something that that person's working towards.
And I don't know if I would go into a relationship banking on that. Like, you know what, this person's really working on this, and I'm sure that in like just a year or maybe two, this is not gonna be part of our relationship anymore. I would be hesitant to. To say, to, to go into relationship with that assumption, just because I don't know, like it, it, that may or may not happen.
The question I always go back to is if, whether or not this [00:27:00] person changed, could I still, would I still choose this person? And if the answer to that is yes, you know, like even if this person struggles with pornography, our entire relationship, would I still choose them? And choose who this person is and their values and their, their core beliefs and all of it.
Do I choose all of this person? Then I think that that is something to me that's very hopeful and very that, that signifies to me a really. Healthy and good relationship, but if the relationship's going in with the assumption, like, I think this person's going to probably stop, I mean, they told me they're trying to then that's, that's a little dangerous territory.
So I, I would say,
Crishelle: it kind of sounds like you're putting, sounds like you're putting all your chips on a behavioral as opposed to again, the deeper, like who the person really is.
Rachel: Yeah. [00:28:00] Well, and with
Crishelle: I don't know if that even made any sense.
Rachel: yeah. Cause I think with the second part of the question will I have to deal with this in the future forever? Well, There's two parts I would say to deal with. One is dealing with the fact that this person is always Or may always struggle with pornography and that is out of our control.
Like we, we can't, we can't choose or make this person behave in any way. But when we look at this question from the perspective of deal with this in the future forever with the lens of, well, I have to deal with what comes up in me every time this comes, every time this person struggles with pornography, that's a great question because the answer to that is like, well, that's up to you.
Like, that, that's up to you to figure out what your work around this looks like and over time that will get easier. It won't feel as painful or as difficult as it does in the beginning[00:29:00] and because that, that is what we can control.
Crishelle: I love that. I would also just like add the caveat as you do the work It will it will get easier if you don't do the work it will not get easier and it will be very painful every time Well, and it will probably be painful every time anyway, but as you do the work you will have The resources and the tools and the coping skills to show up in a very mature and beautiful way.
And as you do the work, you're inviting your partner to also show up at a, at a deeper and more beautiful level.
Rachel: Yeah, I, I think that I think that this could be something really helpful to put a pen in and potentially do a whole other episode on of talking about what does do the work mean? Because I think that sometimes we talk about yeah, doing the work or changing or growth and it's like, but how, like, what does that look like?
And so to be able to go more in depth with what that might look like, whether [00:30:00] you're the person struggling or you're the partner to be able to go more in depth with that.
Crishelle: I love that. In fact, let's do, let's do let's, let's definitely make that happen. And because I, it is kind of. It's kind of like trauma. Trauma gets thrown around a lot. The word trauma, which there is very real big T and little t trauma in all of our lives, but it's also like Oh, today was dramatic. Usually if you're saying that, you're like, okay, today was a little dramatic. That's usually what I say in my edit.
Rachel: Yeah.
Crishelle: the edit. But, okay, so what I, what I'm saying about the trauma thing is like, I think that's like doing the work, or like, can be made that as well. Like where we're like, oh, you just gotta do the work, or I'm just doing the work, or I'm meeting with my life coach, or I'm meeting with my therapist.
Like, you could even be meeting with the therapist, or like whoever, and feel like you're doing the work, and maybe you're not. So, So I think that this is a really important thing to talk about. And maybe, maybe in this [00:31:00] episode for the sake of everyone so they're not like, I just have to wait for the next episode. Like what would you define, like maybe it's just very simply and we can, and we can jump in that a little bit deeper. Like what do you mean do the work as you, as you work on yourself? What do you mean?
Rachel: Well, I would say it's two parts. One is that when I am dysregulated, that I feel that I have the skills to be able to regulate myself. And that I don't get overwhelmed by my dysregulation. So those those often are just skills. That we learn, you know, learning how to recognize, what does it look like when I'm dysregulated?
What are, you know, what, like, what does it feel like in my body when I'm dysregulated? What urges do I have to do when I'm dysregulated? And then also, when I'm, when I can recognize that I am not regulated, What do I go then to do to read, to [00:32:00] regulate? And so I would say that's the first part of doing the work.
And then the second part is helping our in the therapy world, we call this idea, the window of tolerance. So it basically is that this window of what I can tolerate before I get like thrown out into dysregulation, we want that to get even bigger. So, you know, my partner hopefully eventually could tell me that.
They are struggling with pornography or they had relapse and I would be able to say like, you know, that's, I can still feel frustrated, upset, activated, but I'm not dysregulated. I'm not going into my behaviors. I'm not shut down. I'm not like spun out into anxiety. I can handle it. And so it's, it's really looking at those two parts of, in my mind is what doing the work means.
Crishelle: I think that you explained that so beautifully. And again, I want to jump into that. More because I think that that is so beautiful. So we will, we'll have an episode all about that, [00:33:00] but I, I think that you also did a really good job at summarizing what doing the work actually can look like, and maybe even two steps, like step number one, start noticing when you're dysregulated,
Rachel: Right.
Crishelle: step number two, work on regulating,
Rachel: Right. Right.
Crishelle: gaining more skills to get back to.
Being regulated and then what can we do to increase our tolerance, our
Rachel: Mm hmm.
Crishelle: Oh, I want everyone to hear that forever, just because it is that so often I feel like I hear people say, Oh, well I'm working on it. I, and I'm like, okay, but like. You're still dysregulated. A lot.
Rachel: Right.
Crishelle: So if we could, let's work on this. Let's just work on the dysregulation piece and, and, and focusing [00:34:00] on on helping that get better. Helping you to show up better when you're activated. Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else you want to share about this question about the dating relationship and whether or not someone should move forward,
Rachel: Hmm. Well, this question of should I stay or should I go? I think that I would, I would say to be More hesitant to go than I would to stay. And the reason I say that is because it sounds like this person who's struggling with pornography is, is being relatively straightforward about it or there's dialogue and conversations. And so, I guess I'm trying to say is if there's a thought of like, you know what, maybe I can [00:35:00] go and they'll find someone else who's not struggling with pornography. That's, that might be possible, In the end, there's still this missed opportunity for growth, and that person that you do find that's not struggling with pornography will absolutely be struggling with other things that also impact the relationship maybe even just as great. And so, Really using this as a, as a time to say, how, like, how can I squeeze every bit of juice out of this and really use this as a chance to help me and this partnership grow.
The, the areas where I would say it is good to maybe not stay is if there is a repetitive like, patterns of dishonesty, patterns of hiding patterns of half truths or just like, I guess I'm trying to say this person's just generally not trustworthy. [00:36:00] I would say that is a definite red light.
You know, that would be something definitely to, to stop and to reconsider. But. And, you know, and then I think, I think with this, it's also important for every person to figure out what are my, what are my , non negotiables. And maybe for some people it's like, honestly, pornography itself is just a non negotiable.
And I'm not going to get married until I find someone who's never had this issue. Okay, you know, then, then at least you know that's on your non negotiable list. But if this feels like, you know, there are other things that are, that are more important to me on my my stop sign list then then bringing those up, I think it's important to, to even write down. I would also say something else that's important to keep in mind is, and this is going to sound kind of odd, but I think that having a level of distrust in a partner is good. Because if we ha and maybe not distrust, but having a level of like, [00:37:00] I don't fully trust you is good because I don't know if anybody is ever perfectly trustworthy.
Or is not going to disappoint us in some way or is going to yeah, do something that's not going to hurt us in the, at some point. So I think it's important to have a little bit of a. radar on for is this person behaving in a trustworthy way? Because the problem is, is if we don't, then that's that is, I think setting us up or someone out for potentially Really not being in a great situation and or it's not like creating this tension I think that's important between the couple of I'm expecting you to stay trustworthy and For both people to come up that way So again, I don't want to like swing into the end of don't trust anyone and that's not what I'm saying but I think [00:38:00] it's important to have this element of is this person trustworthy and to be Scanning for that and and hopefully finding a person that like, when it's like, if I could go back through everything and look how everything lines up, I see that everything lines up well.
And that's what I'm
looking for.
Crishelle: I think also as you're describing that I, for me, I was evaluating just like how I, how do, how do I approach that? And, and I think the question is for me always is, is this person trustworthy? Like even now with my husband, right? Like, it's not like I was like. Yep, he's trustworthy. Check. And I was just like moving forward, right?
I didn't just like check the box and I was like, sweet, let's go have kids and ride off in the sunset.
Rachel: Right.
Crishelle: But rather the question for me always is, is this, is, is my husband trustworthy?
Rachel: And continuing to be trustworthy.
Crishelle: and continuing, and like, and what evidence do I see? And again, maybe this comes from my background of [00:39:00] where I got burned.
Rachel: Sure.
Crishelle: But it has been a very helpful thing for me because anytime something little has come up, where I've been like, I have a question about this, we talk about it.
Rachel: Mm hmm.
Crishelle: And, and we learn so much about each other. Mostly because I'm like, we gotta talk about this so that I feel safe.
Rachel: Right.
Crishelle: Otherwise, I'm booking it for the hills.
Rachel: Right.
Crishelle: And I think what you just said is such a beautiful invitation always is, yes, even as you get more and more committed, you're still asking this question of like, is he trustworthy? Am I trustworthy? Am I, am I being honest? And what ways am I not being honest and, and, and allowing those opportunities where that question gets.
It's, you know, triggered or highlighted or however you imagine that to, to have conversations and to grow together.
Rachel: Right. Right. Yeah, I, I would add a caution,
Crishelle: Please do.
Rachel: Because I think that it can be [00:40:00] easy to allow our anxiety to run this. And what that looks like is very different than what I'm talking about. What that might look like is I have this constant sense of distrust and I need to constantly either check in and ask questions.
Or I need to it's, it's kind of like the fire alarm in my head is constantly going off. I, I think, I think what is good is to be able to say, like for example, if your fire alarm does go off in your house, most of us don't just like,
Crishelle: Evacuate.
Rachel: yeah, like, grab our kits and go. Like, usually we look around and say, like, well, is there a fire?
And I don't know. We have a faulty smoke detector, so sometimes it just goes off. And it's super annoying, but I'll, like, obviously look around and be like, Is there a fire? Is there smoke? No, we're good. Turn off the fire alarm. Resume my day. So it's kind of the same thing. If I feel anxious about [00:41:00] about is my partner trustworthy or not being able to treat it like a fire alarm.
I'd be like, Ooh, I'm having that alarm going off in my head. Can I look around? Is there a reason for this? Is there, you know, is there like, is there potentially smoke or fire? And if so, I need to go address that or was just this, it's just a faulty alarm and being able to really decipher and discern between those two.
I, I,
Crishelle: said. I love that so much because I've experienced that all the time. I'm like, wait, is this just me freaking out because of XYZ or is it actually smoke and fire? Oh,
Rachel: right,
Crishelle: beautiful analogy. Yes. Yes. Because yes, your anxiety will lie to you.
Rachel: right. Because if we're, if we're running out of the house, every time we think that there's a fire. Like, or like dishonesty or untrustworthiness then and, and there's not like evidence or reason for that. I think that that will be very [00:42:00] exhausting and be challenging for both people in the relationship.
So it's really learning how to say like, maybe I just have a more sensitive fire alarm for whatever reason. I need to learn how to really tell when there's a fire or not.
Crishelle: Yeah. Ugh. Beautifully said. Well, coming back to the beginning question, is there hope? There is so much hope. There's so much hope for who, whichever person you are in a relationship. Whether you're the person struggling, or you're the person who is in a relationship with someone and they're struggling.
There is so much hope for you. And I, I really hope that that's what this podcast does for you, is that it fills you with hope and provides you with real tools and stories and examples of how you can have that hope.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely.
Crishelle: So, thank you so much, Rachel.
Rachel: Yeah,
Crishelle: This has been such a beautiful conversation